The Future of BIKES? UDH /Direct Mount / Full Mount Driverains, Transmission - SRAM
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- UDH was the first step to Direct Mount or Full Mount installation for drivetrains based on the #srammtb #udh or Universal Derailleur Standard introduced in 2019. Is this the future? I think it is. #srameagle #ttype
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⌚Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:25 Why UDH?
00:59 New Standard?
01:40 UDH - New or the Same?
02:51 Innovation? Te Future?
03:37 Dangerous for the frame?
04:04 Here's why
04:30 Is this the FUTURE?
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I like the UDH idea for the hanger! Being able to get a cheap readily available hanger is always a plus! Now Transmission is a no-go. The price is just way out of proportion for my needs!
Tip of the iceberg though! Let's see what comes after this crop of Transmissions😏
Can't wait to see the SX version@@LoveMTB
I like the derailleur hanger and it SHOULD be the standard on all new frames. But i have a feeling that wireless shifting will be the only option in the future. I like the feel of traditional cable shifting. (Yes i understand wireless lets you tune every gear and is probably better overall) but i also just wanna ride my bike.. get home, throw it in the shed and ready to ride the next day without having to think about batteries or configurations etc..
I hear you!
For sure I'll not change my bike for the udh, but for sure my next must have it
With you on that!
I like UDH as the solution for the issue of too many derailleur hanger designs. I wish more manufacturers could adapt UDH earlier. None of my bikes uses it and all are relatively new (2-3 years old models). It is very annoying when you need to spend a lot of time online to find the dh matching to your frame (if the frame manufacturer does not have it in stock, which actually happens quite often, at least it is my experience). And there is also a possibility to order one which when arrived turns out to be not matching, because you have ordered one for the newer / older frame version. As for the improved rigidity / reliability: well, the time will tell, it is still too early to make any assumptions. The fact that SRAM promised to provide spare parts (even these structural) for broken derailleurs is a good thing (come on Shimano, the cage and pulley wheels available as spare parts is not enough to fix the derailleur is some situations).
With you on this! WIll be interesting to see if the replaceble parts SRAM build in are going to fix moxt of the broken derailleurs, assume they will!?😉 As for SHimano I will be surprised if they used the same UDH...
@@LoveMTB Right after the new SRAM drivetrain launched, I've seen a video on YT (I don't remember the channel name) where couple of guys tested the derailleur to its limits (using a contraption of a pendulum with some weights hitting it from the side) and they managed to finally break it (the outer part of the parallelogram gave up). But they were able to replace it with a spare. They had this part, so I want to believe that the average Joe is also able to acquire it too.
@@micktheshaggy3977 I know the video. Also saw a broken cage on an X0. Can't wait to do a deeper dive into the tech of the components, it's pretty cool stuff.
"The issue of too many designs" ? .. ))
Well, now we have one more. )
@@ka81alex Could be...😁
When I’m building my next mtb in 10+ years, I’ll definitely get the newest drivetrain 🤗
What kind of problems it resolves? If the hanger is too strong all forces cumulate further into weakest part of bike frame. And in case of misfortune instead od replacing hanger for few $ you end up with broken frame. Second thing - this design need very tight clearance in bike frame dropout manufacturing along with proper tightening moment of through axle. Otherwise derailleur metal will constantly rub the carbon frame dropout leading it to delaminate or do it once but thoroughly - again you end up with hard to repair bike frame fault. Do you think potential benefits outweight those dangers?
Number one is misallignment of the derailleur and cassette, nuber one cause of shifting problems. And with tolerances tighter than ever I believe they are getting ready for even tighter tolerances? I thought about it just like you but after looking deeper I don't think it's so "dangerouns" for the bikes, look at my Yeti hanger is even beefier than that UDH, frame will breake before that one does.
@@LoveMTB Wouldn't be so sure as case with press fit bb's show. On one hand superior solution to BSA, but in reality, to hard for most manufacturers to do it right so people love BSA back and enjoy silence;) And as for the frame since I consider it to be the soul of any bike I would like to any other part to take impact and fail than have the frame broken. But I'm curious about your future impressions and videos on the topic. Maybe I'm wrong and too cautious.
Maybe I dive in head first a bit more than others but this is a standard that will stick. It brings value and I am looking forward to see all those broken frames. They've been testing this, racing this for a year. Nothing came out, all the abuse is taken by the rear axle. That already gets is today while riding. If anything we will see the parts of the XX/ X0 broken but that's why they are replaceable. More on that to come soon, I just did not get to it😉
Just found out another small massive detail...you can no longer use a forked trailer like the Burley coho xc trailer or the extrawheel trailer...
i just bought a 2ndhand frame that used proprietary derailleur hanger, it missing the outer part that lock the hanger to the frame. It was a nightmare to find the part and all i can find was a custom made by a third party shop. So the concept by SRAM UDH is the future for me.
Agree, you saw my bag of hangers…😊
Very interesting topic indeed!!!If all the drivetrain manufacturers were on board this would be awesome but I doubt that will happen,I guess time will tell...
Exactly, time will tell. But SRAM is pushing the envelope for sure!
The standarizarion of the mount would be sweet !!! However, as we have seen for the mobiles charger, only on this Century, it seems to start happening (USB type C) 🤷🏻♂️
But, to replace ours frames & deraillers, only when they reach the end and/or break 😜
I believe sram did a good job doing the UDH(Even though my bike is using shimano).
Derailleur rarely break but I get the idea of ease of replacement when you need it.
Shimano took a long time to finally to really follow sram's concept.
But for me to replace my bike for a frame that needs a UDH(either sram/shimano) i eont do it out of want but need.
i am really hoping that something like this catches on cus one of the big reasons that i don't buy derailleur bikes is that with some of my old bike i have broken the hanger and i couldn't find a replacement so i had to replace my bike.
UDH is a excellent thing even if someone hates electronic drivetrains or even SRAM. I’m not a fan of the electronic dropper but I do think that electronic shifting and the axle centric design is the future. Cable stuff will always have a niche but it will be like 10/11 speeds and 27.5
I am with you on the UDH. If you ask me it will be axle centric and cable actuated for more entry level, wireless for top end😇
@@LoveMTB I believe you might be right about that!
🤓
Well put bro
Thanks from Bucharest România 🇹🇩 💪
Salutari din Toronto!🤘
Actually i don't care about mounting type if it's strong enough to work properly. But the idea of removing H and L screws looks interesting. I wonder how it works. And i hope there will be a line of mechanical derailleurs to choose. Just moved back from AXS and very happy about it
I'll cover all that in the upcoming videos, make sure you're subscribed😉
So sad to hear about your bikes have been stolen! I suffered the same a few months ago. Only the owner knows the time, efford and passion put on the bike. As you, I have a new project with better components. Again, very interesting video. Waiting for the video of mounting the Sram transmission. Regards.
Sorry to hear that! Yeah me too...🙂
Trust me, they were insured. He’s going to be just fine; if anything you should express condolences to the insurance company lol
I don't see myself getting a whole new frame/bike just for the UDH mount. I will, though, take it into consideration when I actually need to get a new bike.
Sensible approach
Thanks for the video, as usually very interesting, but I am still curious to hear what your doubt about udh as a standard is.
I don't believe much in frames breaking if that's what you're thinking of 🙂
My question about this is can you use srams new derailleur with quick release rear hubs because I wanna try this new derailleur from sram.
Simply no😔
Can I somehow adapt an incompatible frame (Trek PowerFly 7 Gen 3 2022) to work with UDH?
Unfortunately no
I need one of this! :D
Links in the description 😎
can other manufacturers design and manufacture rear mechs that will bolt directly onto UDH frames (similar to Transmission)? or is this licensed/patented only to SRAM?
UDH is an open standard. Full Mount as SRAM calls it - I’m sure they have patents, not sure what they cover
At first i mocked it, but it makes sense totally now after assembling boxed bikes for a few weeks. Almost every bike has a bent hanger out of the box lol
Exactly! And according to SRAM 50% if shifting issues are due to...bent derailleur hangers!🙄
does the derailleur fall off then when you remove the axle and wheel?
Does not, you have a bolt on the outside to keep it on the frame.
whatever the future is, its going to be more expensive not by a little, but by a lot! keep up if a can bet ya cant
Honest question, i thought the hanger was supposed to break before the frame?
Good old days right? 😎
Hello,
The official torque for UDH is 25Nm but i read a lot of people say it's too much and they say to use a torque of 15Nm instead of recommanded 25Nm.
What do you think about that?
Best regards.
Specialized recomends 25Nm for the Epic, Yeti suggests 10Nm for the SB115. What is your bike manual recommending?
@@LoveMTB hello :)
The problem is i haven't the manual of my trek procaliber 9.5 year 2022. I will ask Trek by e-mail because online on TREK website there's some technical data for example about the isospeed but nothing about the torque of UDH and he's coming from factory with an UDH Sram and Shimano groupset.
@@ldvcbi4317 I would do the same or use the 15 Nm😊
UDH is a good thing.
For the new mounting system.. If it can handle 600kg, the hit firces have to go somewhere, since there is no weak point as with traditional hangers. We shall see in couple years
💯
UDH is the standard, at least for the medium term. I doubt Shimano or anyone else will try to modify it because there’s too much “installed base” of UDH bikes. Shimano would want their new derailleur to fit on existing UDH bikes.
Amen!😇
would be nice to have a standard like UDH. HEY I SAID HANGER!! haha 1st joke I have hear out of you! great contend man Cheers
Trying to kep it "professionsl" in the vids 😇
Hi from Australia!
Love from Canada!
let us see if Shimano will Follow with direct mount Transmission. and if so Im stoked to see NS SX and GX versions on direct mount AXS or if available wired version too. it would be much cheaper
Yeah I believe that's next!
All great innovation, I like the progress going on in the industry, no doubt it's a tough derailleur.
The new derailleur is fixable by buying different parts of it, I doubt any of the parts is as cheap to replace as the derailleur hanger. So I a way the company is again as with everything trying to get more money from us...
Also example, you can't put a spare cage in your pocket like you do with a hanger.
As with any system, the rule is that the weakest point always gives/fails first...with the hanger gone, I will say we will probably see broken pulley cages as a result...time and social media will tell.
I also doubt there will be only one standard, I mean, who would want to give away their piece of the cake...
Good points, and I agree with you on the cage, but we saw bent cages before, with a bent hanger on top. Until we make it all internal this might be a better option?😉
@@LoveMTB exactly, would also really hope for progress into that direction ✌Cheers
Ya my RSD does not have the universal derailer hanger
It is a cool idea 👍🏻
Yeah have a few bikes like that I'll probably ride them to the ground 😉
It's all marketing - new technologies = buying a new bike, the law of the market!
Ismt that the case... always?
Iove that there is a standard. I don't love that drive trains cost 2 grand. I also don't love batteries. Hopefully the wireless thing doesn't take over. I also don't love 12 speed cassette. Wide range 9 or 10 needs to make a.come back
It's called Shimano CUES and it's probably for the entry level everything...
price is the ultimate deterance for the new sram transmission. may stay a while but wont be well accepted by the masses and regular people. Will be on a lot of dentist bikes though.
We'll see what they come up next, have to have a lower price option for this to make a dent.
my guess is that we see a lot more damaged frames with this derailleur type. the shock goes into the thru axle and frame during an impact on the derailleur. But with cheap quality carbon frames from china nowadays it costs less to replace the frame than this derailleur.
Some damaged maybe, but there is a lot of stress going through that rear axle already, bikes are built for it?
Actually, the rear axle is transferring the force/impact through the entire rear and instead of just drive side.
Exactly and the rear of the bike is built for that.
I thought they where up to something but its good if you dont want to put a bike trailer, then you have some problem...
True, but I'm sure the 3k drivetrain was not designed around that 😇
Run Shimano with a UDH. Things that keep me from going SRAM - 1) Cost, 2) I do not like the large gear jumps at the top of the cassette, and I run Shimano across all my bikes - compatibility - allows for parts swapping in an emergency. We are at the phase now where we are getting incremental gains. I was going to start talking about Suntour Microdrive XC via 1991 BUT that dates me. One bitch about the UDH is that you need an 8 mm allen key for field replacement.................
No more large jumps with the new cassettes. Price...is the market they want to be in, they are innovators. Top end = better margins!
@@LoveMTB Fair enough on cost but 800 cdn for a wear part cassette? Gear jump is improved but is still an 8 tooth jump at the top (38, 44, 52) when compared to Shimano's 6 tooth at the top (39,45,51). As a fatter rider , I spend lots of time in these 3 gears.
@@dougdewar7896 smaller chainring maybe? What I would do
@@LoveMTB Smaller Portions is probably a better solution. Keep of the Good work ;) Love your channel. If you are ever in Penticton - look me up - I will take you for a ride you will never forget )
Will do! Thanks for the offer😍
I hope someone can adapt this UDH to the 2018 GT Fury Frame. I really like burly frames and I won't sell my bike for a really long time.
Most probably not doable...
@@LoveMTB yeah. The last i can use is gx axs not t type.
Sadly, not one of the recumbent trike companies is on board with UDH...
That’s too bad. But we still have standard mount drivetrains, Shimano just pushed out their CUES line, have a few vids about it
How did they get stolen??? Broke into garage??
...😔
hope Shimano and sram come out with a cable version.
Oh they will! I'll put my money on it
Although, from my understanding, the reason it shifts so well is partly because it’s electronic.
That's part of it, second is the perfect alignment
@@LoveMTB absolutely true! I love my bikes so much. It’s too bad they don’t have UDH
Wtf? Bikes stolen! That sucks & is unfortunate. At least you're getting back on your wheels. We've got the udh and bike specific hanger mess right now. Moving forward it's going to be interesting trying to upgrade..
To say the least!
My procaliber is UDH standard
Lucky!
@@LoveMTBalthough I don't plan on using sram on it lol. I been a Shimano loyal for over two decades 😁
@@phenofinder9145 They're coming with the direct mount as well...😉
@@LoveMTB that's exciting!
The rearward rotation isn't innovative. All derailleurs rotate reward already. It's a small iteration to have the hanger rotate as well. Be that as it may, these are quibbles. The risk of the Transmission mount damaging the frame is *not* a quibble: ua-cam.com/video/4tnfMOjJ83E/v-deo.html
I still think we will be fine 🙂
Ya ill Stick To My 75 $ Near New XT Short cage I Just Bought 😁
🤓
What is absolutely baffling to me is we are now several years into the UDH, and Shimano STILL does not have an direct mount solution that works with UDH. Wheels Manufacturing appears to have something, but at $60, and guaranteed to be in stock nowhere, I will pass.
Arrogant? Hmm...
@@LoveMTB I am sure some of that combined with Shimano's usual glacial pace of change. I wanted to carry over my 11sp XT setup to my Stumpy EVO, no way to make the derailleur work without a B link. I just ordered a RD5100 instead. I will probably go all LG when this cassette wears out.
@@SubversionGarage if all you want is durability that should work but not sure about the compatibility 💯have to do more testing
@@LoveMTB Of the 5100 or the LG stuff?
L with current, derailleur / shifter has a different pull ratio, cassette is new but don't kow how different from old 11s. More to come@@SubversionGarage
In all of my life ive never bent a hanger …. So why Its there …
Exactly!
I wrote about it in the BIKEDEALZ magazine. I'm sure it's amazing strategy to push Shimano-ish-like companies (as it was done in the past with HG)
That's cool, can you post the article here?
Wearing branded apparel leaves questions regarding neutrality.
Good point! Hat is signed by Kate Courtney as a matter of fact, giving them away at the Mt St Anne UCI race. So I guess I’m.not neutral?😎
@@LoveMTB Well, I wouldn't wear it if I was you. But no offense, like your content. Thanks for that!
just bought new bike last year. will not consider this «upgrade» for another 10-15 years time.
Fair, but not sure is the norm for a lot of riders?
Unfortunately new bikes coming out with a gearbox transmission and a drive belt will make all this obsolete.
Not soon enough...
Good topic. Mixed feelings here. I do think professionals mountain bikers will have a big voice in how companies will go. As always professional athletes drive the market based on what it fits their area of interest. I feel the new direct mount will stay here and possibly move into cross bikes, road bikes. It is just matter of time. The question becomes, are other manufacturers moving on that direction like shimano and campy. Only time will tell and also how companies like shimano will design the mount. Fortunately all my bikes can accommodate the new direct mount type. I think change is always good. But like always you might be stuck with obsolete parts and frames.
Lucky to have the UDH already. As for others...patents are already put through!
When I bought my bike I thought this was just a normal thing 😂
Almost "normal"😇
I dont think this would not be good. Riders will just pass upgrading. Basically most riders have frame 2020 & back which do not support UDH hangers rather std hanger
For just one hanger, SRAM is killing off sales of the new T type shifting system
riders do upgrade their shifting system more often than a frame.....in the span of 3 to 5 years.......
No, Direct Mount IS NOT the future. And extolling the virtue of how strong the direct mount derailleur is, only makes it more probable that it's going to rip your carbon bike's chainstay in case of impact. UDH is a good standard plus you can buy them in AE for $7 made in the same chinese factory that makes the SRAM-branded part.
Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell😏
SRAM components are made in Taiwan but I have seen them make their way onto AE as well. I wonder if those on AE are knockoffs or overstock/imperfect authentics from SRAM.
600kg=1300lbs. Slightly over half a ton...just saying lol
I do love the fact that you can get a hanger anywhere!
Maybe when the drivetrain comes down about 500$ ill try it!!
Thanks for the calculation🤓
They'll have the cable drivetrains with this, remember I said it first! 🤘😇
I did the same calculation in my head when he said it! lol
We're doomed. We're all gonna go bankrupt trying to keep up to newer and better.
Guaranteed 🤘
If SRAM patent any part of it, then it would never become the standard.
It is a standard, but open-standard. Not an expert on this so unsure if there are SRAM patents around this as well. That's how they squeezed in the exact dimensions of the frame dropout to fit it, etc.
After-market brands such as Wheels Manufacturing offer anodised options, have a link in the description.
Is Sram's tail wagging Santa Cruz's dog? SC flipped their minds more than I flipped the rear chip on the Tallboy, having one is pointless & now no longer future proof. Seems like a key design feature thats omitted was just trend following then & on to the next one.
Unfortunately that's probably true. Still love that Tallboy though🤘
@@LoveMTBYou're right, the bike rides like a dream
UDH or be left behind!
It'll mean they're available anywhere, at any bike shop and someone will likely have a spare if you break one out riding.
What's not to like about that!
And Sram went about it the right way releasing the UDH a few years prior to the release of the direct mount derailleur.
Yes and yes!
Fix an issue only to reintroduce another issue, typical of the bike world.
No kidding 😊
This is actually not a bad idea overall though
Ugh, I’m so sorry your bikes got stolen, may the bike thieves suffer the agony of a thousand purple nurples!
💯
Marketing gimmick. Something "new" to milk some money. That thing is as strong as the frame nowadays. Who beaks then ? And as peak torque pointed out - the frame mounting point MUST be perfectly flat and parallel to the cassette. Do I trust the bike industry to stick to that tolerance? No. Even butique brands can't make a perfectly round bottom bracket hole. So no, I don't trust this. Engineering wise has no benefit. It's just a gimmick for the masses. That doesn't mean we won't buy it. We will if they shove this on our throats because we have no other choice. Regarding thr drivetrain....here in EU that CHAIN in 180 euro. The damn chain. At that price I need to wear it around my neck. 700 eur for a cassette...comeon. Bike industry is started to shift towards dentists. Same as shimano with the "new 105" transmission. Chinese frames, components, groupsets and wheels will start to take over - and the 3 big brand will eventually regret the choices they made.
There's a lot more markin in higher priced items. Companies make a decision where they want to play. SRAM has never been in the entry level despite their tries with sx.
As for pricing...ridiculous, I agree, but go to buy a Maxxis tire these days and tell me how much it is!
They bend, or break as a sacraficial part. Guess the stress is now relieved by the frame, or axle/hub? Stress does not go away magically with a new gizmo!
Actually, the rear axle is transferring the force/impact through the entire rear and instead of just drive side. And the rear of the bike is built for that kind of stress anyway?
How to make simple things over-complicated just to be able to plaster it all around with fresh patents. Innovation the american way. This is the reason I boycott those.
Its useless marketing crap. Just because you name something "universal" doesnt mean everybody and everything will use it. Also it doesnt fit on older bikes and is therefore clearly not universal. ☹👎
Udh needs to be made of billet aluminium,not rubbish plastic,you cannot bend back a bent derailleur without them snapping,bad design!
And you keep having to check if they are tight,if you overtighten them,the inner collar snaps,they need to be made of a stronger material
Believe Wheels Manufacturing builds them like that? Check my links in the description