5 Tropes in Literary Fiction (the best and worst!)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Unlike other genres, literary fiction isn't often known for its tropes--but it does still have them. Many tropes in literary fiction are more stylistic, and these style trends can be hit or miss depending on how well they're executed. Today let's chat about five tropes in literary fiction, two to be avoid, one to tread carefully with, and two to embrace in your work.
How to Write Literary Fiction: • How to Write Literary ...
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
1:24 - Illogical framing devices
3:19 - Writing about writing
4:11 - No quotation marks
5:44 - Retrospection
7:20 - Genre bending
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genre-bending is such a great thing. Most stories aren´t just one thing. I don´t understand people who try to force themselves to fit just this one thing. Write the story you want to write and worry about the categories later. Genres aren´t walls, they are for readers to know if the story is what they are into
5:03 I think the best use of no quotation marks I've seen is Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk, where it's essentially used as a tool for characterization of the narrator (there aren't any quotations around the narrators lines) It blurs the line between the internal monologue and external dialogue which makes sense because yk, famously during most of the book he's just talking to his own hallucination. Really adds to the overall disassociated tone of the story.
I didn’t know my novel was literary fiction until these past two videos. It’s been a revelation, thank you so much. I thought my prose was too proletarian for my novel to qualify, and now I feel like I’m understanding it completely for the first time.
Which is convenient since I’ve only been working on it for 9 years.
Two tropes. 1. Protagonist returns to home town to see mum who has dementia. 2. Goes for a walk - sea-gulls. Also over-doing the 5 senses thing. Boy fancies girl and goes to a café with her. Buys a scone. Smells the scone, tastes it, watches butter melt on it, the texture of the scone, its taste . . . as if he would give a **** about the scone if he's with a girl he fancies for first time!
thank you for saying this about genre-bending.
i think so much of my time has been wasted on worrying about leaning too heavily on A Genre, that i forget that literary fiction is FAR more interested in the W A Y it is written, rather than it being about completely normal day-to-day shit and pointless introspection.
One of my favorite literary fiction writers is Cormac McCarthy. His book The Road is such a great example of genre-bending. Post-apocalyptic and beautifully written with plenty of retrospection.
And no quotation marks! 😂
In all seriousness, yeah you’re spot on. Cormac McCarthy is a different breed. My favorite of his is All the Pretty Horses, which is one of his many Western genre-bending literary books. And I can’t wait for his new release this November taking on science fiction… I anticipate greatness.
@@Exayevie I love that he doesn't use quotation marks honestly haha
I've started doing it in my own writing sometimes.
@@judsonl8990 When I first picked up the Road, I rolled my eyes soooooo hard - I definitely thought it was pretentious! But by the end of the book, I was just impressed - it added so much to the sense of intimacy and isolation - like, is this actually dialog or just some innate understanding? So I admitted it worked in that case, but I still held that it would never fly in a Western...
And then I read one of the Westerns and immediately that theory was shot lol
@@Exayevie Yeah, he takes a little effort to get into. But, All the Pretty Horses is one of my all-time favorite books. And he does the same thing in that book - no quotations, simple dialogue, and beautifully exposition and prose. He's a master!
And you're right - the lack of quotations makes the dialogue become just part of the scene. The reader hears it the same way they hear a creak in the floorboard when a character walks across the room. It's great if done well!
Regarding retrospection, I thought that could only be done in past tense, but I think the novel “The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue” does it in present tense, if I’m not mistaken. Here’s an example:
“She could not break the figurine.
But she could take it.
Amid the growing list of negatives-she cannot write, cannot say her name, cannot leave a mark-this is the first thing she has been able to do. She can steal. It will be a long time before she knows the contours of her curse, longer still before she understands the shadow’s sense of humor, before he looks at her over a glass of wine and observes that a successful theft is an anonymous act. The absence of a mark.
In this moment, she is simply grateful for the talisman.”
Is this an example of retrospection?
This isn't really retrospection, more like projection into the future! Retrospection means you're thinking back and reflecting on past events, this is more the main character interpreting what her thoughts might be in the future. Kind of a reverse retrospection in a way!
This is like the hundredth time this book has come on my radar; I'm going to read it next.
@@Reedsy But the voice does seem to know what's happened in the future. It simply seems to be commenting on the fact that the past self does not know the future as the voice does, and therefore is more retrospective than predictive I think. No?
ocean vuong does a lot of this i think
I found another example of this in Celeste Ng’s “Everything I Never Told You”:
“His father is hardly home these days anyway, and his mother has locked herself in Lydia's room again; through the wall he can hear her pacing, like a prowling cat. Hannah raps at his door, and he puts on a record, loud, until he can't hear the sound of her knuckles, or his mother's footsteps, anymore. Later, none of them will remember how the day passes, only a numbed blur, overshadowed by all that would happen the next day.”
The narration is in present tense but the narrator seems to know the future. This means that if we choose a present tense for a novel, we’re not necessarily locked in present and past tense, but we can access the future this way too.
Young lady, I have no idea why you don’t have way more views. Very insightful. Every time.
The great thing about writing about writers is they are one of the few professionals that have the time to sit around (or walk around) thinking; but, you are correct about the writer's block aspect of it. I would much rather see a writer at the top of their game (say, Umberto Eco) pounding out words. This would be a significantly better way to address creativity & the process of turning ephemeral thoughts into words on the page. Concerning fiction, all I read is literary & I am currently working on a novel where the reader is introduced to three characters & as those people move around the reader is introduced to other characters, each told in a specific way with an individual point of view. Give me another 10 or fifteen years & I will have my first draft finished.
Great video, keep up the good work. Yes, I did subscribe, but not the notification, because, as a writer, have plenty of time to sit around & think & see who has put up new videos.
i was taught that someone famous (can't remember who) who make a dog bark when he's stuck on a scene and make the characters react. raymond chandler did the same, except someone would walk into the room with a gun and people would react to that
If you haven't already, could you do a video on self-publishing a *second edition* and what differs and how it differs to self-publishing a first edition? Thank you.
Very interesting and helpful video. I have been buying literature from sites that categorize some novels as literary fiction and I have wondered what it was. As a former teacher of writing and literature, among other things, I have struggled at times to explain to students what good literature and good writing is and why it is worthwhile. One of the first topics we covered that a good (worthy) book is not defined by what you like. Books are important for many different reasons. A book that makes a person think and analyze the issues in the book, is best. IMHO. However I had a student who, when writing a persuasive essay without out a clearly stated thesis, said she wanted to make the reader think.... My point is that excessive framing, especially when it goes back and forth often, can be confusing and combustion is not a good way to "make people think." The same is true for un-marked dialog. Certainly, things get boring with a lot of "he said," "She replied," He shouted, She screened. But as a reader I get irritated when I need to reread to know who said what. Good writing should be unobtrusive. By that I mean is that the writing techniques should not be blatantly in your face. If the reader thinks, oh framing again, or Oh there's a dog barking, it is a distraction. But when they are subtly included, they make for a wonderful read. ON the other hand tropes in things like romantic comedy can be fun since they lend themselves to humorous, sarcastic or snarky comments to share with friends while you watch.
i recently discovered that literary fiction is my favorite genre and the lack of quotations is ABSOLUTELY something that constantly trips me up and i get confused not knowing if the person is actually saying it out loud or just thinking it to themselves, etc. i can't say if i like or dislike it as i'm still so confused about it. thanks for making this video! i feel a lot less crazy now knowing this no quotations is an actual thing and not a typo. 😂
Would love a recommended reading list at the end of these genre videos.
On number 2, from tv tropes: “most writers are writers”
The writer character is encountered a great deal in fiction, not only in literary fiction, but in romance and womens' fiction, and very much so in crime/mystery type genres. A crime writer with a tendency to get involved in solving real life crimes...! It isn't always annoying, but can be.
Your talks on literary fiction are very good. I write almost exclusively in Literary/Upgrade fiction. Your information and examples are reaffirming for me. Thanx.
R. Harlan Smith
I guess I'm old school (?) but I'm still not comfortable with reading books writing in first person. I never know if I should trust the narrator, interestingly, and it's not me but it's saying "I" which is odd and as a result puts me off. I know some folks love the immediacy of it but I value the distance between me and the characters, allowing me to let the characters "in" and to put myself in their shoes at my comfort/convenience/choice. To each their own. Great video, thank you for this topic, very interesting.
I agree about writers writing about writers 😃 As for genre-bending literary fiction… there is a bit of confusion in this one, because literary fiction is not really a genre - it’s a marketing category.
I don't like the device either of a book within a book. Neither do I like a play within a play...The Dresser. But Shakespeare used it.
I'm finishing the first draft of my novella, it's upmarket fiction, it has literary elements of retrospection and some romance. Told in the first person in the past tense.
Is "upmarket" still a thing? Or have publishers and agents moved away to either literary or commercial?
Oh my gosh I love this discussion of no quotation marks. I remember picking up The Road for the first time and rolling my eyes aaaaalll the way back in my head lol. I almost put the book down because I thought it was so pretentious. But by the end, I had to acknowledge it really added to the stark, isolated feel of the book.
At the time I insisted it would never work outside of an apocalyptic setting, and then I read All The Pretty Horses. So that theory was immediately shot lol.
I still refuse to do anything completely without quotation marks like McCarthy does. But I found it’s useful to pull out in select situations, specifically when dialogue is happening but it’s not the main thing on the character’s mind. Hemmingway did that very subtly in just a few passages of Farewell to Arms.
Literary sci-fi!!!! 💜💜💜 Sorry, I had to say it. I love that blend so much.
Ma'am, you do proofreading of Novel manuscripts??
How can I get in touch with you? Do you offer mentoring services? I need help with plotting ( finding a basic structure) for a piece of retrospective literary fiction. I have worked on an MS for 7 years and I wish to rewrite.
We’ve no choice but to ramp up security from now. The royals will forever be watched.
Are there successful memoirs written with some literary fiction in them?
I showed this to my professor, and he said you misunderstand what tropes are.
What you described are not literary tropes.
He gave me examples of them.
This got me confused.
“Everything Under” has a dog barking and also skips quotation marks 😂 I liked that story though and think no quotations made sense because it made the scenes feel more like a memory which was relevant to the story
Reedsy, Try "Outpatient" by R. Harlan Smith at Barnes & Noble. Literary Fiction.
I hate novels about writing! If I pick up a book, read the back, and see that it's about a writer/novelist...I put it back down, lol. Just feels like a weird type of self-insert fanfiction.
Romancing the Stone is a film, obviously, but she's a writer and it made sense for the plot so sometimes it works, albeit perhaps not in literary fiction. But yeah the writer's block trope? Ugh, nope. Hard pass. 😆
What is the name of the short story author who writes literary horror? Amanda…?
Movies about movies are generally more interesting to the director, who's probably a lifelong movie nerd, than it is to the general public. Same with writing about writers.
But most people want to feel the world is real, imagine the characters actually exist. Going meta is like showing how the magic trick is done.
_This comment is me asking for help._ I wrote a piece of historical fiction during a class to show the students how to do their writing assignment for that week. The short story that came out of the lesson was given to the students and they have since encouraged me to turn it into a book.
I have outlined everything, written a few chapters and put together *_extensive_* notes. However, my greatest obstacle is keeping on task and staying motivated. If there is someone behind me putting a fire to my bottom, I get it done but if left to my own devices, I rarely finish anything I start.
There are many reasons for this ranging from depression, to being consumed by a fear of success, or an overpowering belief that it is pointless to continue. I really want to finish this one and I really want to tell Ilse's story but I have a hard time initiating the flow of words onto paper or screen. Once I start, it is not an issue but... ....any advice on how to get rid of this villainous shortcoming? I've seen a few doctors and while they have helped greatly with the larger life issues; writing is still an issue.
If your protagonist mirrors some problematic aspect of your self writing that she credibly overcomes challenges to change as a character and overcome her problems could stimulate your own subconsious with a vision of hope. Regular exercise is also therapeutic for depression, and worth just going out for an hour long walk without headphones so that you listen to the world and don't stay wrapped in your cocoon of media. It can help to think things through, but also, too much introspection isn't helpful. Seeing a psychologist is probably the best treatment I can recommend from a medical perspective, as it helps to understand your own psyche as you are usually too busy living it to analyse it dispassionately, and need help unpacking your own list of maladaptive personality disorders (I have six). Maybe, take your novel idea and write it as a short story, allowing it to become a novella if it wants to be that length. Then go back over this and elaborate on it to make it novel length, by following the lives of ancillary characters who have a tangential connection to your protagonist and show us how they seem from the outside view.
Wait But Why did an incredibly insightful and funny long post series on procrastination and I've never looked at it the same since. Recommended. : ) I'm pretty sure it's still online. FYI in case you find it helpful.
I honestly didn’t mind the “no quotation marks” thing in Sally Rooney’s writing.
I found it impossible at the beginning of Normal People, but quickly got used to it.
If one is used to reading classic literature, it can be annoying
lol I hated it with Margaret Atwood
More examples, please
Thx
Sorry what's the name of the horror writer you recommend
Samanta Schweblin!
What was the name of the woman who writes literary horror? I tried a few times but can’t understand the name and am not sure how to spell it. Thanks
Hey never mind. I turned on CCs!
Samanta Schweblin!
For the next few videos could you please explain every single type of book genre. They are so confusing
We already have a video on this topic! It's called the ultimate guide to literary genres :)
Maximize security for tsugumi.
I've never understood the 'you can do anything' thing. What can you do with literary fiction that you can't do with genre fiction?
Was George R.R. Martin's Armageddon Rag an attempt at Literary Fiction? Because the setting of the story is based on a certain 20th Century era, as well as the main protagonist being a writer.🤔
Love this channel in a tube world full of genre fiction ranters , you're a rare gem. 👌🏾
I think the "main character is also a writer" thing is like a stage all writers go through 😅 I did (and yes I don't like it now) I think because other than the "well I know what being a writer with writere block is like" aspect it's also "easy" like don't want your MC to worry about money? Make them a rich writer whose at the moment having trouble on thier next book. Want a character with surface level knowledge on things for plot reasons but can't justify it? MAKE THEM A WRITER we're also looking up random stuff for books. Need a reason for this character to be witness the main event in an area they know nothing? MAKE THEM A WRITER GETTING RESEARCH
I think it can be fine in stories but I just...can't personally do it. Read it or write
fiction writers writing about writers annoys me too - it's like movies about movie makers - it's like the writer/moviemaker has lost sight of the outside world - and sees everything in terms of their profession - if it's well done then of course - but the more writers & moviemakers do it - they narrow the focus for the audience too - so i avoid those self-indulgent stories & movies
i chuckled at the dog barking scene - i've never noticed - it must be like having a storm accompany a deadly event - or rain a tragic one
Good video thankyou. I have lousy hearing and so quieter background music would have helped me. It was nice music though.🤗
I HATE the framing devices in Heart of Darkness. There are a ton of other reasons why I hate that book, but it started on a bad foot due to the framing. I feel like if my AP English teacher had to explain it to us before hand, it isn't a functional way to write the book.
literally fiction is should be something I could teach is there way it can be taught
Woof!.... Woof, woof, woof, woof...... Woof!....... I like dogs.
What is this person's name?
shaelin bishop
I think folk should read old novels as well as contemporary. Especially writers...
Wait... so is literary fiction all about the prose, then? The distinction between genre fiction and literary fiction is so weird. And there are still the age categories on top. XD
Some publishers like Harlequin/Mills and Boon won't publish the book without a happily ever after. You can't go full Romeo and Juliet in a genre romance. So the concept makes sense, books that have defined genre conventions and those that don't.
@@oliverford5367 Thanks.
Oh no😂😂😂 I'm writing a kunstlerroman about a writer😂😂😂
But they don't have writer's block👀