Amazing I'm from NY and I've heard things about Egypt and how you don't have a choice besides the Muslim religion. I can't imagine but I'm so happy you came to the truth. 😊
@Martin Ramsbottom Yeah it’s terribly they’ve been truly deceived, they see our saviour Jesus as nothing but a prophet and think He even worshipped their false god. Their books say so many lies about Christians and Jews their simply hateful sadly ive heard from many their the hardest to reach.. I guess the best we can do when someone is so hard hearted is to pray for the Holy Spirit to open up their hearts.. may God bless them, I use to go to school with about 50% muslims and it breaks my heart knowing if I try and preach the true gospel to them they’d harm me, i’ve had a muslim threaten that he was allowed to kill me because his quran says to kill all infidels (non believers) they even kill their own for leaving the faith. May the true God of Israel reach them :( i’ll be praying !
A grade school teacher did this with his class every year: He did the telephone game, with the usual outcome. Next he told the class that if they got it wrong recess would be suspended for the rest of the week. The outcome? They got it exactly right! This happened with every class, every year. The moral to the story? When the stakes are high enough the telephone game argument fails..
Can you elaborate / verify if I am understanding your take on the analogy? Here, the "grade school teacher" is God, and the threat of suspending recess is Hell or punishment. Now, I think your point here is show that the fear of Hell for the manuscript copiers was enough to deter them from getting the core message wrong. Concerning just the psychological thought of the copiers though, at best for atheists, doesn't necessarily prove or disprove God's existence. However, it is greatly significant that a vast majority of the manuscripts have, in essence, the same intended meaning. It would demonstrate the extent of seriousness the scribes had and support an argument if legitimacy. Perhaps the analogy wasn't aimed at such, and so I'm wondering if I am understanding though.
Shredhed's point was not about the punishment representing hell but rather that when something is very important...people will treat it as so. Skeptics try to say that the Bible was like a bad game of the telephone game where the message was distorted throughout the years. The compared it to a bad game of telephone amongst children. Shredhed is showing how kids actually get the message right when they need to. And so this supports that the Bible is reliable.
@@oatmiser3110 Did you even watch the video? There is no "corruption" in the scripture... and it's funny how you changed it to idea as if we can't record these things. This is the only way atheists can exist, by moving the goalposts every time we put forward a new proof of God.
This is interesting.. I’ve always heard skeptics say “the Bible has been changed over and over and therefore the scriptures are not reliable”. While I never believed the skepticism because my experience in a changed life and faith in the Messiah, I have never studied this topic. This stuff is good to know. Thank you for sharing.
I don't know how, but one day I was on UA-cam and found your vlogs. I have now been watching them as many as I can daily. Thanks for your clear, succinct, easily understandable preaching. God be with you....
I love watching your videos! Very informative and as a born again Christian it's so helpful to understand the Bible and to the evidence of the Bible and Jesus... I believe on faith alone but it's nice to know what to say to skeptics! God Bless you and your family and your works!
@@bornagainalex2250 Disagree. Faith alone through Christ alone, revealed through the Word alone, is ENOUGH to convince. Now when contending for the faith, and engaging in community discussions about our faith, our God-Savior, His standards and why we accept what He said above all else, including the voices of the self humans, other humans and systems, there we engage apologetics to challenge the humans' limited thinking in the face of a GOD whose thoughts are way higher than ours. We can discuss what He has decided to reveal and left behind for us to contemllate, as we seek that which is innate in us to find: the One we are created to worship. The Holy Spirit's job is to convince them, like He must convince us also. We just declare truth and wisely provide the linear movement to connect the dots we have to discuss the need for salvation and God's love for the lost human race, redeemed through Christ alone. God does the rest. Thank you Pastor Mike. Soooo grateful for your obedience and ministry. Have learned so much in finding you on UA-cam. Great is the Lord!
I just discovered Mr Winger and I have been listening to as many teachings as I can coz there is so much that I can learn from him. He is so clear in his teachings and I thank God for leading me to him. Thank you Mr Mike Winger for your love of God and His Book.
This was sooooo interesting to learn and so helpful when talking with skeptics! I watched the first half yesterday and God already used this video in a conversation I ended up getting in on a delivery last night!! Praise God! I was so glad I watched this beforehand. Watched the rest today. So so so gooood! I think I'm a Bible nerd 😁😅🙏⭐️🍎
Mike this video is a gold mine, a treasure trove of truth. Thank you for taking the time to put all this together your ministry is soooooo needed at this time. God bless you my brother!
So glad I found this video. I have been a believer for many years and just recently came across the 'varient' issues and it has disturbed me greatly, and shook my faith in God's word, but after truly seeking his guidance and spirit, I have had to accept the fact that there are variants, and that even tho i don't understand it all, and some look weird to me, i have to trust God with them and that they don't change anything regarding doctrine, and try not to freak out over it! I am a word freak and feel like things have to be the same all across the pages, and this has helped verify what I feel God has been speaking to me. Thanks again. I'll try to watch your other ones
HEATHER: I feel the same way. I've been a KJV ONLY, but recently I have been reading other translations, even the NLT which does not follow Calvin's 5 points. It has been nothing but a joy in so doing.
Same thing happened to me and the new Bibles cause lots of issues. The info this guy provides is not exactly accurate. Check out videos from will Kinney, David Daniels, and av1611. I wouldn't use new Bibles. If Bibles have error in them, they can't be God's word.
@@glenconverse1327 That is so encouraging to hear! I study from the KJV. But I am not an onlyist. My Pastor reads from the NLT. I am not a Calvinist either. We have just joined the Baptist Church. It seems very Biblically sound. The Pastor doesn't add works to be saved. He always says that it is not by works that we are saved. But just believing in trusting in what Christ has done on the cross. My husband and I havent been able to find a good Biblical Church for years here in the UK. But this Church feels so right! I feel so blessed when we go there. Praise Jesus! 😊 🙏🙏
The belief in the doctrine is what saves, not the exact wording on the paper. After all, when you think about your belief in God are you reading the words literally in your head, or just thinking about God?
God is using you to touch many peoples lives and I will try to remember you in my prayers so you will continue to be a blessing to the body of Christ. I've learned alot since I discovered your channel
Wow! This is the best video I’ve seen on this topic. Good job in explaining everything and exposing Erhman! 😂 “he leads them to believe in something he doesn’t believe” hahaha it exposes his emotional unbelief. Also...I believe atheists just spew the variants argument without even investigating themselves 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ You are so knowledgeable and I appreciate these presentations so much. 🙏🏽✝️🎉
I already know this, but I love hearing the presentation from you. Apologists is more important than ever and if we stand on the resurrection argument and the reliability of the New Testament, we can fight the invading army of New atheism.
Mike, thanks so much for your clear, concise, and succinct teaching on these significant matters. I love your videos. Please keep doing this. You encourage me so much!
In other languages, the book of James is titled Jacob in their language. The Spanish title for James is Santiago. The manuscripts didn't have titles. The error was made by John Wycliffe when he did an English translation. It doesn't change the message of the book.
I just found your channel. I needed this right now. (Thank you Jesus for leading me here.) I am truly blessed by your teaching, Pastor Mike. Thank you, Pastor, Mike. God bless you abundantly!
Ive been a Christian niw foe almost 2 years. I feel so blessed to have found your channel. As I read, listen and find so many people trying to change the Word. Or they have a nit very reluable Biblical Christianity. (Woke as an example) Thank you.
35:35 Sorry Mark, but having been a grammarian for many years, I have to respectfully correct you on one non-theological detail, as minor as it may seem. In English, the variation between "a" or "an" is not dependent upon whether the subsequent word begins with a vowel or a consonant, but with a vowel or consonant sound, hence "an honor" and a "universe". An understandable mistake since many of us were taught the erroneous rule in elementary school. Predictably, I expect to be accused of nitpicking, but I'm sure not from one such as yourself, as we both seem to be "sticklers" for accuracy. BTW, love your teaching. It's helped me many times during my discussions with atheists. Way cool!
Mike, excellent video. I really liked the way you put the critics into perspective. I also liked the part at the end where you included the audience questions. Keep up the good work.
My friend has used this " telephone game" excuse for why she doesn't believe the Bible....but she's never read it!! You gotta read it and you'll know. Im talking about studying the Bible.
Thank you Pastor Mike, I intend to hopefully complete a piece of artwork on you soon. Lord willing🙏 I'm not sure how I can send it to you but I'll post on here when it is done.
Hi Pastor Mike. I've been watching your videos for a while, they are very informative and such a blessing. Thought I'd say hi at this point. I'm from Québec, Canada. This video was awesome I'm definitely sharing it :) Be blessed!
Great message as always Mike. I'm glad I came across your channel. God bless you and strengthen you. Is there a link to the closing theme in all of this series? I love the message of the song ❤
Thank you pastor Mike for the time and dedication it takes to research these things. Many of us do not have that kind of time. Years ago I got into a dispute with a person. He asked me if I read a certain book. I told him no. He said, See you don't understand. Later I read the book. Then there was another problem. That problem was, I did read the, and I did understand.
Very insightful,thank you for your hard work and it's appreciated. I believe in God the Creator God because of what I've witnessed personally, The Living Word has stood True for a guide no matter the situation
Pastor Mike I just wanted to thank you for this teaching on this. It definitely removed some fears I was having.. when it comes to reading different translation of the Bible .. KJV, ESV, niv,.. ECT.. I understand that some prefer one translation more than another one. I don't push others to read what I do because we are all different In our understanding of scripture. I grew up reading KJV and I still read mine to cross reference. I have enjoyed reading the ESV I have compared many scriptures and I have yet found anything that's a contradictory from one translation to another.. I was wondering how do you handle when you have someone basically says thing's like the kjv is the only correct translation and what will I tell God when he ask me why did I read from these other versions where his word has been altered.? 🥺 This is a very deep concern for me. I tried my best to explain things as best as I could. Literally took scripture out of context when this person told me that God has made it very clear what happens to us if we add, remove, or change his word. I did say that I have compared the 3 different translations above with each other and they all have the same meaning.. but what God was meant was in example is to not add to scripture like example what the Mormons have done with the Joseph Smith texts. And there's the FM secret societies who added Egyptian gods and goddesses and their beliefs into the Bible. Or how the Catholic Church has removed one of the commandments and took another commandment and made it look like two.. plus they not only have made changes to the Bible but they encourage the church members to only listen to the church pastor and they never encourage. I'm just extremely sad 😢 to be attacked while I was just trying to share in love. 🙏🙏🙏
I have a question I notice we just call the Bible the Bible. I remember when I was young it was called the Holy Bible You know I think that's important. What do you think ?
These methods were used to come up with the authoritative copies of Homer, Aristotle, and other ancient sources that are readily accepted in the scholarly community.
@VideoAudioDisco09 this is not true. Gravity hasn’t been discovered, yet we all agree it’s true. We can see the effects of gravity, we know its relationship to mass. But you can’t point to gravity. It’s ethereal.
@VideoAudioDisco09 you’re arguing my point for me. Gravity, at this point in time with our tools and technology and understanding is not knowable. We can predict how it acts, we can observe it in action, we can see the consequences of its existence but we cannot for certain say what it is.
Thank you for this series and particularly this video. I find all your videos edifying. Specifically about this video, I thank you because I did have doubts about the correctness of some translations such as the NIV, NKJV, ESV, etc. I had these doubts because I belonged to a King James only church for many years. The pastor often would call the NIV the never inspired version. Despite being indwellt by the Holy Spirit, I think my spiritual growth was held back due to only reading a translation that was difficult for me to understand for many years. Now I am very happily reading and understanding the NIV and ESV. I feel as if my spiritual growth has been jettisoned because I am able to read these texts. In addition, I feel as if the Bible detractors are always going back to “Did God really say?” And we know who that comes from. Anytime something starts out with “Did God really say?” I should be super wary.
It's actually 400,000-500,000 variants, not counting spelling errors. However, no doctrines have been added or removed, in other words, no doctrine is actually affected.
Imagine the world P52 experienced just to finally make it us to help us preserve the word of God. Faith like a Mustard seed, or a credit card size piece of the Gospel.
I also think you should compare the number variants to the number of letters in the bible, instead of the number of words, considering that variants can be as insignificant as a letter or punctuation change. :)
If we heald the evidence for Alexender the Great to the same standards that skeptics do about the bible, then I would be forced to believe that the story was actually four people merged into one after 1,000's of years of oral legends being told.
Well ya know seeing how the Dead Sea scrolls came along, many of those skeptic arguments fall apart. They’re dated to about 300BC , right around the time we had the full complete Old Testament. And both the Greek and Hebrew versions found line up perfectly with what we have today. A lot of non-canonical books were found as well, the book of Enoch was regularly quoted from by biblical writers. It was regularly studied back then. Just because a book isn’t in the Bible doesn’t make it unimportant.
Mike, you said at 32:34 : "If we don't know what the New Testament says, we don't know anything from ancient history." I assume that you are just talking about literary sources, because there are numerous archeological and epigraphic sources about ancient history.
+Ptolémée Soter I'm specifically referring to the information we have from ancient sources which were written. I'm not trying to suggest that you can't surmise information about a past city from a modern excavation of a tel. But the general historical acceptance of less attested works of antiquity is evidence of a bias when some reject the New Testament based on manuscript attestation (which is far superior in the NT than in those other accepted works).
Thank you for the quick response ! I would like to met a serious modern scholar that reject the New Testament (even the Old Testament) based on manuscript attestation. I study history and my former teacher of biblical archeology use one of the book that you used in your diagram (Commentarii de Bello Gallico) to compare the numbers of manuscript sources with the Bible. So I agree with you the point of the written ancient sources. I hope that my english is understandable.
God bless you for your teaching . Please update on the number of manuscripts , variants etc in 2021. what about the paraphrased bibles[ message bible, NLT ] and other language bibles? Are they counted as variants ?
The current number of manuscripts is ~5,800 Greek manuscripts, ~10,000 Latin manuscripts and ~9,300 manuscripts in other languages. All of these 25,000+ manuscripts are from ~125 AD until the 15th century (when printing was invented in Germany). Please note that a manuscript is a handwritten copy of the Bible, not a printed version. That's why we have no manuscripts from after the 15th century. Any Bible you hold in your hands today is not a manuscript.
Pastor Mike, Could you give us some information on how pagan romans and greeks, as well as first century jews viewed Christians? Maybe a web link or make it part of a future video?
@MikeWinger not sure if you will be looking at the comments of a video this old. But I have a question, I have people I know as a Christian, who are also Christians, that claim that the only true version of the Bible is the KJV or the NKJV. the reason they claim this, is because they say that some of the original translators in the scholars that translated that of like the NIV were homosexual. So they have "corrupted" the text and therefore we can no longer use it. I want your thoughts on this as I don't know quite how to respond. I know that God will use imperfect things for the good of his purpose but I don't know how to respond to them. I can't even find any hints online that even says this might be true. Please help. I am lost. I don't want to be reading possibly bad material, I just got an entire set of journalling books on the ESV which I know is more word for word. I will keep an eye out on your live streams or a response to this comment. Thank you!
KJV-onlyists have a nasty habit of slandering whoever they construe as their opponents. So, as to the NIV's translators what actual evidence do they have that any particular member of its translation committee was a practicing homosexual? IMHO, they’re also being hypocritical, given that the KJV translation was itself authorised by the King James who had 'relationships' with his male courtiers... KJV-onlyists also make nonsensical copyright claims, on the one hand trumpeting the KJV's supposed lack of copyright and accusing other translations of changing a certain percentage of the text, corrupting it just so they can profit by having copyright protection. These KJV-onlyists conveniently overlook the fact that the KJV is itself protected by royal prerogative which predates copyright. The KJV's royal prerogative remains protected under s.171(1)(b) of the UK's Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. The KJV is hardly the world's best translation for today, either. Though a commendable translation in its day, it contains many archaic words that are either no longer in use or whose meaning has changed in the 400 years since it was written, making it difficult and, sometimes, misleading for most modern readers. Furthermore, the KJV's translators drew heavily from the Tyndale Bible - about 5/6 (83%) of the KJV New Testament is Tyndale's words and about 3/4 (76%) of the KJV Old Testament is Tyndale's words. In turn, Tyndale's New Testament was translated into English using Erasmus’ 3rd printed edition of the text compiled from only eight Greek manuscripts (all dated from the 11th to 16th centuries, with heavy reliance on manuscripts from the 12th to 14th centuries). The translators of the KJV didn't examine any manuscripts for themselves. What they used was _printed critical editions_ (not actual manuscripts) of the Greek & Hebrew texts produced by Erasmus, Stephanus & Bezae - and even the Latin Vulgate. Some KJV-onlyists will also tell you the KJV is based on what is called the Textus Receptus. However, there was no such thing as what the Textus Receptus when the KJV was first published, in 1611. The Textus Receptus as we now know it wasn't compiled until 1894 (i.e. 283 years later) by Scrivener, who looked for _printed editions_ (again, not actual manuscripts) of the Greek & Hebrew texts supporting the KJV translation, from which he then created the Textus Receptus. Since then, the Textus Receptus has been revised many times and today there are over 100 versions of it. So which Textus Receptus do KJV-onlyists say we should rely on and what makes that edition the one and only "correct" one? KJV-onlyists would even have us treat the _Comma Johanneum_ (1 John 5:7) as a genuine part of that Epistle in spite of the only Greek manuscript containing the _Comma Johanneum_ is that well-known 16th century forgery, Codex Montfortianus, which the RCC used to sneak the verse into Erasmus' 3rd printed edition of the Greek New Testament in 1522 and, from there, into the KJV and, ultimately, into the Textus Receptus. Additionally, we now _know_ that the _Pericope Adulterae_ (John 7:53-8:11) is a later addition to John's Gospel and that Mark 16:9-20 is a later addition to Mark's Gospel. As such, none of these passages deserve the canonical status the KJV and Textus Receptus give them. At Matthew 19:9, Erasmus edited the Greek text of the manuscript he used so that instead of reading _μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ_ (mē epi porneia), it read _εἰ μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ_ (ei mē epi porneia), subtly changing its meaning. That affected the KJV and is replicated in the Textus Receptus also. Furthermore, the Textus Receptus contains supposed Greek readings that have absolutely no manuscript support, especially in Revelation. For example, the reference to "Thou art righteous, O _Lord,_ which art, and wast, _and shalt be_ " in the KJV and Textus Receptus at Revelation 16:5 is not supported by _any_ manuscript evidence. _Every_ known manuscript contains the equivalent of "Righteous art thou, which art and which wast, _thou Holy One_ ". Indeed, there is _no_ Greek manuscript support for the Textus Receptus' last six verses of Revelation - Erasmus simply created his own version of the Greek text by translating from the Latin Vulgate's text into Greek. The KJV also mistranslates Ephesians 3:9 and Acts 5:30, amongst many others, and is inferior in its attestation to the deity of Christ (in Romans 9:5 and John 1:18, for example). For similar reasons it fails to give the "and so we are" (καί ἐσμέν) reaffirmation of the Christian's status at 1 John 3:1. It also mistranslates 'children' there as 'sons'. If those things don't bother KJV-onlyists, on what basis do they claim the KJV is more accurate than any other translatoon and that the Textus Receptus is more reliable than the manuscripts preferred by almost everyone else (which manuscripts KJV-onlyists claim are erroneous)? KJV-onlyists would do well to read something scholarly, like Metzger's _The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission Corruption and Restoration._ KJV-onlyists also resort to such facile arguments as manuscripts of the Alexandrian text-type (eg Codex Alexandrinus & Codex Sinaiticus) being the product of Egyptian heretics - simply because Egypt is often presented as Israel's nemesis in Scripture - and the false claim that Codex Sinaiticus is a 19th-century forgery. They conveniently forget about Apollos of Alexandria (Acts 18:24-28; 1 Corinthians 1:12; 3:4-6; 4:6; 16:12), with whom Paul ministered and whom Paul commended to the Corinthian church and that, in 4th century, Athanasius of Alexandria was Christian orthodoxy's greatest defender against Arianism. Athanasius might even have used Codex Sinaiticus as his reference text... Constantin von Tischendorf discovered Codex Sinaiticus at Saint Catherine's Monastery in 1844. However, in an article in _The Guardian_ of 13 September 1862, Constantine Simonides - a dealer in icons and manuscripts (numerous of which he forged) - claimed to have written Codex Sinaiticus in 1839. The claim was soon debunked but is nonetheless taken as 'proof' by KJV-onlyists that Codex Sinaiticus is not the 4th-century manuscript paleographic experts say that it is. None date it later than the early 5th century. As recently as 1975, more folios from Codex Sinaiticus were found in parts of the Monastery that had been sealed off for centuries before Tischendorf discovered it. One wonders how those relying on Simonides explain that! Some KJV-onlyists even go so far as to claim the KJV translation was itself inspired and is thus infallible, ignoring the fact that, in their preface to the KJV, its translators admitted the fallibility of their translation and anticipated future revisions. These same KJV-onlyists conveniently ignore the status of the Apocrypha in all of this. The Apocrypha was included in the KJV of 1611, but most KJV-onlyists reject it. On the slandering front, some KJV-onlyists defame Westcott and Hort, the editors of _The New Testament in the Original Greek,_ the first text-critical edition of the Greek text of the New Testament, published in 1881 - 13 years before today's Textus Receptus came into existence. Manuscripts studied by Westcott and Hort included: Codex Alexandrinus; Codex Bezae; Codex Claromontanus; Codex Ephraemi; Codex Sinaiticus; and Codex Vaticanus. Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1901) and Fenton John Anthony Hort (1828-1892) were scholars and theologians and Westcott was an Anglican bishop. The manifold slanders against Westcott and Hort are typified in the writings of J Hyles, N Jones, G A Riplinger, P Ruckman, D Sorenson, and D A Waite. Such slanders commonly include that either or both were occultists who denied Jesus’ deity, His resurrection, the inspiration and infallibility of scripture, etc., and, on that basis, all modern translations of the Bible employing the text-critical methods pioneered by Erasmus (whose Greek New Testament was foundatonal to the Textus Receptus) are not to be trusted when refined by Westcott and Hort and take account of the earliest manuscripts. Most modern practitioners of New Testament text criticism have endorsed the findings of Westcott and Hort, that the Neutral text-type best reflects the autographs of the New Testament text. The Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies texts of the Greek New Testament differ far more from the Textus Receptus than they do from the text of Westcott and Hort. I trust you'll find the above useful.
I am in a debate with an atheist about the authenticty of the Bible. He states the stories in the OT are fiction. How do I respond to that? What authorities should I use in response to that ?
Kind of hard to deny historical evidence of Isreals lineage of lords categorized from tail to head. Beyond that roman accounts of christ are unmistakable. Other prominent names and leaders of the time period are found in historical nonbiblical text. So with a foundation in history, the stories validity are hard to deny. You can if you are willing to be cognitively dissonant, the inherent truths that can be found within the parables is undeniable and universal. The truth, the life christ with his holy father insured that those who seek shall find. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink my man.
@Theodore Barrett Sr. Go to BibleGateway.com and use the Parallel feature to compare up to 5 versions at a time. You'll find the MESSAGE of God does not change, however readability does change as well as understanding the MESSAGE the passage is communicating. BibleGateway will make this apparent very quickly. It also has the Mounce Interlinear (Greek-English), two Jewish English translations and Wycliffe. After a while you'll probably find yourself liking one version or several. For me the go-to Bibles are the NIV and ESV. The NIV does a great job making the MESSAGE flow without tripping up over punctuation or making it complex for no good reason. Stay away from paraphrases like The Message. Personally I don't like MEV and CEV. Its very rare that a passage will read different between almost all versions. I did find one OT passage that had different meaning in about 17 of 20 versions. That tells you there is a problem understanding what the ancient Hebrew means and Bible translators are seeing it differently. But this is only once I've seen anything so dramatic. What is interesting is seeing how the KJV twists and mangles passages compared what it means.>> KJV 2 Corinth 12/ Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. NIV 2 Corinth 12/ We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. KJV Philemon 1:7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother. NIV 2 Corinth 12/ Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.
@@Baltic_Hammer6162 not a criticism of your comment, it is a great answer and I agree. I would just, respectfully point out that the KJV hasn't mangled the meaning. In fact it is our changing and "mangling" of the English language and the meaning and usage of words that has caused our understanding of what message is being conveyed to be faulty. Again, I'm not trying to criticise or argue against your comment, but the KJV hasn't changed the meaning of the message, the obsession with changing the meaning of words in English (oftentimes reversing the meaning completely) is at fault. God's word is preserved, it is us that have corrupted our own understanding. God bless
@@lellyt2372 Maybe the message was in 1611 vernacular but its long gone, just as Old Norse or Low Saxon, from the language of English speakers. Today's English speakers don't use the terms, meanings, words or unique convoluted sentence structure. So yes, the KJV mangles the message. Its the one and only reason the KJV was a stumbling block to me understanding the Bible deeper than a superficial skimming over the tops. Another example of mangling the Scriptures is the glossing over and convolution of homosexuality, which I find very disturbing and lends credence to the stories of King James 1 was a flaming gay. 1Timothy1:10 NIV-- for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine. KJV-- For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I'm Christian from Egypt , when i discovered your channel pastor i spent much time on it and it helped me so much , God bless you
Welcome to the family.I hope you are well. 💜
@@queenSummerKeli thank you, i hope you too
Amazing I'm from NY and I've heard things about Egypt and how you don't have a choice besides the Muslim religion. I can't imagine but I'm so happy you came to the truth. 😊
Praying for Egypt and my Christian brethren living there! 🙏
Wow amazing, I really adore middle Eastern christian, it makes me think that there's always hope for our Muslim friends, Jesus is Lord!
dear Mike as an apologist in arabic world Thank you so much for this video
My brother from The people of the book ☺️ Happy Shabbat 🎉
@Martin Ramsbottom I'm planning on going to seminary for apologetics. If you've been to seminary, do you have any advice?
@Martin Ramsbottom Yeah it’s terribly they’ve been truly deceived, they see our saviour Jesus as nothing but a prophet and think He even worshipped their false god. Their books say so many lies about Christians and Jews their simply hateful sadly ive heard from many their the hardest to reach.. I guess the best we can do when someone is so hard hearted is to pray for the Holy Spirit to open up their hearts.. may God bless them, I use to go to school with about 50% muslims and it breaks my heart knowing if I try and preach the true gospel to them they’d harm me, i’ve had a muslim threaten that he was allowed to kill me because his quran says to kill all infidels (non believers) they even kill their own for leaving the faith. May the true God of Israel reach them :( i’ll be praying !
Amen
A grade school teacher did this with his class every year:
He did the telephone game, with the usual outcome.
Next he told the class that if they got it wrong recess would be suspended for the rest of the week.
The outcome?
They got it exactly right!
This happened with every class, every year.
The moral to the story?
When the stakes are high enough the telephone game argument fails..
Can you elaborate / verify if I am understanding your take on the analogy?
Here, the "grade school teacher" is God, and the threat of suspending recess is Hell or punishment. Now, I think your point here is show that the fear of Hell for the manuscript copiers was enough to deter them from getting the core message wrong.
Concerning just the psychological thought of the copiers though, at best for atheists, doesn't necessarily prove or disprove God's existence. However, it is greatly significant that a vast majority of the manuscripts have, in essence, the same intended meaning. It would demonstrate the extent of seriousness the scribes had and support an argument if legitimacy. Perhaps the analogy wasn't aimed at such, and so I'm wondering if I am understanding though.
Shredhed's point was not about the punishment representing hell but rather that when something is very important...people will treat it as so.
Skeptics try to say that the Bible was like a bad game of the telephone game where the message was distorted throughout the years. The compared it to a bad game of telephone amongst children. Shredhed is showing how kids actually get the message right when they need to. And so this supports that the Bible is reliable.
@@kitchenboy69 An experiment lasting less than 12 hours can prove that an idea can survive uncorrupted for 2000 years?
@Oat just watch the video. The video has a ton of amazing information in it. God bless you!
@@oatmiser3110 Did you even watch the video? There is no "corruption" in the scripture... and it's funny how you changed it to idea as if we can't record these things. This is the only way atheists can exist, by moving the goalposts every time we put forward a new proof of God.
This is interesting.. I’ve always heard skeptics say “the Bible has been changed over and over and therefore the scriptures are not reliable”. While I never believed the skepticism because my experience in a changed life and faith in the Messiah, I have never studied this topic. This stuff is good to know. Thank you for sharing.
I don't know how, but one day I was on UA-cam and found your vlogs. I have now been watching them as many as I can daily. Thanks for your clear, succinct, easily understandable preaching. God be with you....
I love watching your videos! Very informative and as a born again Christian it's so helpful to understand the Bible and to the evidence of the Bible and Jesus... I believe on faith alone but it's nice to know what to say to skeptics! God Bless you and your family and your works!
+Nicole Sovine thank you, Nicole!
Faith alone won’t convince anyone, that’s where Apologetics come in.
@@bornagainalex2250 Disagree. Faith alone through Christ alone, revealed through the Word alone, is ENOUGH to convince. Now when contending for the faith, and engaging in community discussions about our faith, our God-Savior, His standards and why we accept what He said above all else, including the voices of the self humans, other humans and systems, there we engage apologetics to challenge the humans' limited thinking in the face of a GOD whose thoughts are way higher than ours. We can discuss what He has decided to reveal and left behind for us to contemllate, as we seek that which is innate in us to find: the One we are created to worship.
The Holy Spirit's job is to convince them, like He must convince us also. We just declare truth and wisely provide the linear movement to connect the dots we have to discuss the need for salvation and God's love for the lost human race, redeemed through Christ alone. God does the rest.
Thank you Pastor Mike. Soooo grateful for your obedience and ministry. Have learned so much in finding you on UA-cam. Great is the Lord!
I hope you've turned from Faith alone. The bible teaches Grace through faith, then sanctification ;) you ain't saved unless God saves you :)
I just discovered Mr Winger and I have been listening to as many teachings as I can coz there is so much that I can learn from him. He is so clear in his teachings and I thank God for leading me to him. Thank you Mr Mike Winger for your love of God and His Book.
This was sooooo interesting to learn and so helpful when talking with skeptics! I watched the first half yesterday and God already used this video in a conversation I ended up getting in on a delivery last night!! Praise God! I was so glad I watched this beforehand. Watched the rest today. So so so gooood! I think I'm a Bible nerd 😁😅🙏⭐️🍎
Agreed!
best kind of nerd there is
I think you're an: idiot
I am too, its a good kind of nerd to be.
Mike this video is a gold mine, a treasure trove of truth. Thank you for taking the time to put all this together your ministry is soooooo needed at this time. God bless you my brother!
So glad I found this video. I have been a believer for many years and just recently came across the 'varient' issues and it has disturbed me greatly, and shook my faith in God's word, but after truly seeking his guidance and spirit, I have had to accept the fact that there are variants, and that even tho i don't understand it all, and some look weird to me, i have to trust God with them and that they don't change anything regarding doctrine, and try not to freak out over it! I am a word freak and feel like things have to be the same all across the pages, and this has helped verify what I feel God has been speaking to me. Thanks again. I'll try to watch your other ones
HEATHER: I feel the same way. I've been a KJV ONLY, but recently I have been reading other translations, even the NLT which does not follow Calvin's 5 points. It has been nothing but a joy in so doing.
Same thing happened to me and the new Bibles cause lots of issues. The info this guy provides is not exactly accurate. Check out videos from will Kinney, David Daniels, and av1611. I wouldn't use new Bibles. If Bibles have error in them, they can't be God's word.
@@Beleeuer how is it not exactly accurate? Is that the issue or is it that his explanation didnt solve your doubt?
@@glenconverse1327 That is so encouraging to hear! I study from the KJV. But I am not an onlyist. My Pastor reads from the NLT. I am not a Calvinist either. We have just joined the Baptist Church. It seems very Biblically sound. The Pastor doesn't add works to be saved. He always says that it is not by works that we are saved. But just believing in trusting in what Christ has done on the cross. My husband and I havent been able to find a good Biblical Church for years here in the UK. But this Church feels so right! I feel so blessed when we go there. Praise Jesus! 😊 🙏🙏
The belief in the doctrine is what saves, not the exact wording on the paper. After all, when you think about your belief in God are you reading the words literally in your head, or just thinking about God?
God is using you to touch many peoples lives and I will try to remember you in my prayers so you will continue to be a blessing to the body of Christ. I've learned alot since I discovered your channel
Idk if you'll ever read this comment, but Mike I really appreciate what you do on this channel. You have no idea.
Love your "Princess Bride" reference! "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means."
This channel have truly been a blessing to me :)
Then you need to see what blessings means
@@islam1465 you didn't like it?
Wow! This is the best video I’ve seen on this topic. Good job in explaining everything and exposing Erhman! 😂 “he leads them to believe in something he doesn’t believe” hahaha it exposes his emotional unbelief. Also...I believe atheists just spew the variants argument without even investigating themselves 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
You are so knowledgeable and I appreciate these presentations so much. 🙏🏽✝️🎉
Yeah, bro thank you, Mike
Mike, I've been going through your videos. Thank you so much for putting this information together. I have enjoyed these videos.
+Charley Seymour thanks for letting me know!
I already know this, but I love hearing the presentation from you. Apologists is more important than ever and if we stand on the resurrection argument and the reliability of the New Testament, we can fight the invading army of New atheism.
An airtight apologetic expressed through Minecraft analogies. THIS is why we love Mike Winger!
Mike, thanks so much for your clear, concise, and succinct teaching on these significant matters. I love your videos. Please keep doing this. You encourage me so much!
In other languages, the book of James is titled Jacob in their language. The Spanish title for James is Santiago. The manuscripts didn't have titles. The error was made by John Wycliffe when he did an English translation. It doesn't change the message of the book.
I just found your channel. I needed this right now. (Thank you Jesus for leading me here.) I am truly blessed by your teaching, Pastor Mike.
Thank you, Pastor, Mike. God bless you abundantly!
Ive been a Christian niw foe almost 2 years.
I feel so blessed to have found your channel.
As I read, listen and find so many people trying to change the Word.
Or they have a nit very reluable Biblical Christianity.
(Woke as an example)
Thank you.
35:35 Sorry Mark, but having been a grammarian for many years, I have to respectfully correct you on one non-theological detail, as minor as it may seem. In English, the variation between "a" or "an" is not dependent upon whether the subsequent word begins with a vowel or a consonant, but with a vowel or consonant sound, hence "an honor" and a "universe". An understandable mistake since many of us were taught the erroneous rule in elementary school. Predictably, I expect to be accused of nitpicking, but I'm sure not from one such as yourself, as we both seem to be "sticklers" for accuracy. BTW, love your teaching. It's helped me many times during my discussions with atheists. Way cool!
I used to think my grammar was terrible until I got online. UA-cam comments irk me so much.
Mike, excellent video. I really liked the way you put the critics into perspective. I also liked the part at the end where you included the audience questions. Keep up the good work.
I’m glad I found your channel in 2021. I wish you a blessed way teaching and sharing biblical thinking. (From Brazil)
Nossa Mae do ceu!
Mike, thanks so much for this series! Fascinating and encouraging!
Thank you for the video, so informative
So reassuring of the soundness of scripture ❤️
I've recently found your channel, and I love it.
Just wanted to throw in a quick thank you for this video, it has really helped me a lot
Thank you for this video, it’s build my faith as a christian and helped me to discuss my faith with nonbelievers ❤
9:15 "It's our ignorance of these issues that the sceptics count on"... so true!
My friend has used this " telephone game" excuse for why she doesn't believe the Bible....but she's never read it!! You gotta read it and you'll know. Im talking about studying the Bible.
Thank you so much for this, pastor Mike! May God bless you more and more!
Thank you Pastor Mike, I intend to hopefully complete a piece of artwork on you soon. Lord willing🙏
I'm not sure how I can send it to you but I'll post on here when it is done.
Thank you Mike. This series has been most helpful. Listening to the series a second time. Most useful to deal with KJV Only people too.
pastor i just want to encourage you, i laugh at your jokes 🤣🤣🔥 God Bless You! blessings from Puerto Rico 🇵🇷
Yo soy boricua pa’que tú lo sepas! WEPA!
@@apologiaromana4123 🥰💯🔥
@@realista3 Thing is i’m not even fully Puerto Rican lol
Hi Pastor Mike. I've been watching your videos for a while, they are very informative and such a blessing. Thought I'd say hi at this point. I'm from Québec, Canada. This video was awesome I'm definitely sharing it :) Be blessed!
This is very encouraging, thanks for posting this :).
Flawless presentation!
Great message as always Mike. I'm glad I came across your channel. God bless you and strengthen you. Is there a link to the closing theme in all of this series? I love the message of the song ❤
Here it is. ua-cam.com/video/GltUrZEYqRM/v-deo.html
You can also find it on bandcamp. I wrote it and recorded it with the help of friends.
@@MikeWinger thank you. Stay blessed
I really appreciate this video, and I'm hungry to learn more.
13:10 the central authority is God himself the Bible is still whole and available because of God
This was so incredibly helpful. Thanks Mike!
Thank you pastor Mike for the time and dedication it takes to research these things. Many of us do not have that kind of time.
Years ago I got into a dispute with a person. He asked me if I read a certain book. I told him no. He said, See you don't understand. Later I read the book. Then there was another problem. That problem was, I did read the, and I did understand.
Very insightful,thank you for your hard work and it's appreciated. I believe in God the Creator God because of what I've witnessed personally, The Living Word has stood True for a guide no matter the situation
Pastor Mike I just wanted to thank you for this teaching on this. It definitely removed some fears I was having.. when it comes to reading different translation of the Bible .. KJV, ESV, niv,.. ECT.. I understand that some prefer one translation more than another one. I don't push others to read what I do because we are all different In our understanding of scripture. I grew up reading KJV and I still read mine to cross reference. I have enjoyed reading the ESV I have compared many scriptures and I have yet found anything that's a contradictory from one translation to another.. I was wondering how do you handle when you have someone basically says thing's like the kjv is the only correct translation and what will I tell God when he ask me why did I read from these other versions where his word has been altered.? 🥺 This is a very deep concern for me. I tried my best to explain things as best as I could. Literally took scripture out of context when this person told me that God has made it very clear what happens to us if we add, remove, or change his word. I did say that I have compared the 3 different translations above with each other and they all have the same meaning.. but what God was meant was in example is to not add to scripture like example what the Mormons have done with the Joseph Smith texts. And there's the FM secret societies who added Egyptian gods and goddesses and their beliefs into the Bible. Or how the Catholic Church has removed one of the commandments and took another commandment and made it look like two.. plus they not only have made changes to the Bible but they encourage the church members to only listen to the church pastor and they never encourage. I'm just extremely sad 😢 to be attacked while I was just trying to share in love. 🙏🙏🙏
Pastor Mike, you are doing important work! Keep it up! God Bless you and protect you!
This is incredible! Thank you!
I have a question I notice we just call the Bible the Bible. I remember when I was young it was called the Holy Bible
You know I think that's important.
What do you think ?
We don't call God Holy God, the holiness is implied in his being
God Bless You Pastor Mike!
"Pastor Mike peed his pants." That's how you know they love you 😂
Pastor Mike. Thanks for sharing these videos and your passion for truth. Very, very interesting and informative.
Wow, thank you 🙏🏼 MIKE! praise God.
These methods were used to come up with the authoritative copies of Homer, Aristotle, and other ancient sources that are readily accepted in the scholarly community.
+david dyer (dkd83) very good point, David. The double standard of skeptics of the Bible is their Achilles heal.
@VideoAudioDisco09 whether you believe the truth or do not believe, the truth is still the truth.
@VideoAudioDisco09 the truth does not need demonstration to be true.
@VideoAudioDisco09 this is not true. Gravity hasn’t been discovered, yet we all agree it’s true. We can see the effects of gravity, we know its relationship to mass. But you can’t point to gravity. It’s ethereal.
@VideoAudioDisco09 you’re arguing my point for me. Gravity, at this point in time with our tools and technology and understanding is not knowable. We can predict how it acts, we can observe it in action, we can see the consequences of its existence but we cannot for certain say what it is.
Thank you for this series and particularly this video. I find all your videos edifying. Specifically about this video, I thank you because I did have doubts about the correctness of some translations such as the NIV, NKJV, ESV, etc. I had these doubts because I belonged to a King James only church for many years. The pastor often would call the NIV the never inspired version. Despite being indwellt by the Holy Spirit, I think my spiritual growth was held back due to only reading a translation that was difficult for me to understand for many years. Now I am very happily reading and understanding the NIV and ESV. I feel as if my spiritual growth has been jettisoned because I am able to read these texts. In addition, I feel as if the Bible detractors are always going back to “Did God really say?” And we know who that comes from. Anytime something starts out with “Did God really say?” I should be super wary.
Praise God, I have learned a lot. Keep going, Mike Winger!
It is NO COINCIDENCE that this video has low views compared to it's utter and sheer importance
It's actually 400,000-500,000 variants, not counting spelling errors. However, no doctrines have been added or removed, in other words, no doctrine is actually affected.
Yes, even the Trinity is supported unconditionally by Matthew 28:19
Can you recommend books or theses to read so that I can show them to someone? :)
This is awesome, thank you for the talk!
Imagine the world P52 experienced just to finally make it us to help us preserve the word of God. Faith like a Mustard seed, or a credit card size piece of the Gospel.
I also think you should compare the number variants to the number of letters in the bible, instead of the number of words, considering that variants can be as insignificant as a letter or punctuation change. :)
Fantastic stuff Mike.
Thank you for this study. I have learned so much
If we heald the evidence for Alexender the Great to the same standards that skeptics do about the bible, then I would be forced to believe that the story was actually four people merged into one after 1,000's of years of oral legends being told.
Excellent, well done, Mike! 👍👍
Well ya know seeing how the Dead Sea scrolls came along, many of those skeptic arguments fall apart. They’re dated to about 300BC , right around the time we had the full complete Old Testament. And both the Greek and Hebrew versions found line up perfectly with what we have today. A lot of non-canonical books were found as well, the book of Enoch was regularly quoted from by biblical writers. It was regularly studied back then. Just because a book isn’t in the Bible doesn’t make it unimportant.
Thank you for these videos Mike. Very informative. Love in Christ 😊🙏🙏❤
I’m so glad I found you. 👍
Binge watching Winger. It's 2 29 am. Love to learn about the word.
Sounds familiar! It's 3:30am here right now...... D:
57:00 I believe there's a typo in the link. It should be CSNTM
The Minecraft pigs analogy is amazing. Respect 📈
I am amazed about the story of the P52. God is wonderful.
GOD has protected His Word!!
Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Thanks Mike for this presentation - God bless your efforts to fix our ignorance
Do you have an examples about a "a meaning ful and viable variant"?
Is the Legacy Standard Bible something that can be trusted?
Mike, you said at 32:34 : "If we don't know what the New Testament says, we don't know anything from ancient history." I assume that you are just talking about literary sources, because there are numerous archeological and epigraphic sources about ancient history.
+Ptolémée Soter I'm specifically referring to the information we have from ancient sources which were written. I'm not trying to suggest that you can't surmise information about a past city from a modern excavation of a tel. But the general historical acceptance of less attested works of antiquity is evidence of a bias when some reject the New Testament based on manuscript attestation (which is far superior in the NT than in those other accepted works).
Thank you for the quick response !
I would like to met a serious modern scholar that reject the New Testament (even the Old Testament) based on manuscript attestation.
I study history and my former teacher of biblical archeology use one of the book that you used in your diagram (Commentarii de Bello Gallico) to compare the numbers of manuscript sources with the Bible. So I agree with you the point of the written ancient sources.
I hope that my english is understandable.
+Ptolémée Soter I understand you very well. Thanks for taking the time to watch and consider my video.
AWESOME - thank you!
This guy at my job said most of the New Testament is lies. He uses google to tell me but I stumped him just by using the Bible.
God bless you for your teaching . Please update on the number of manuscripts , variants etc in 2021. what about the paraphrased bibles[ message bible, NLT ] and other language bibles? Are they counted as variants ?
The current number of manuscripts is ~5,800 Greek manuscripts, ~10,000 Latin manuscripts and ~9,300 manuscripts in other languages. All of these 25,000+ manuscripts are from ~125 AD until the 15th century (when printing was invented in Germany).
Please note that a manuscript is a handwritten copy of the Bible, not a printed version. That's why we have no manuscripts from after the 15th century. Any Bible you hold in your hands today is not a manuscript.
By the way the word "manuscript" literally means "hand written" [from "manus" (Latin for "hand") and "scribere" (Latin for "(to) write"].
great information. I loved it.
I read Misquoting Jesus about 10 years ago and remember being thoroughly underwhelmed by Ehrman's case
I LOVE YOU PASTOR MIKE
Very interesting
Pastor Mike, Could you give us some information on how pagan romans and greeks, as well as first century jews viewed Christians? Maybe a web link or make it part of a future video?
When they die they are going to see Jesus and they are going to say I blown it just keep them in your prayers.
@MikeWinger not sure if you will be looking at the comments of a video this old. But I have a question, I have people I know as a Christian, who are also Christians, that claim that the only true version of the Bible is the KJV or the NKJV. the reason they claim this, is because they say that some of the original translators in the scholars that translated that of like the NIV were homosexual. So they have "corrupted" the text and therefore we can no longer use it. I want your thoughts on this as I don't know quite how to respond. I know that God will use imperfect things for the good of his purpose but I don't know how to respond to them. I can't even find any hints online that even says this might be true. Please help. I am lost. I don't want to be reading possibly bad material, I just got an entire set of journalling books on the ESV which I know is more word for word. I will keep an eye out on your live streams or a response to this comment. Thank you!
KJV-onlyists have a nasty habit of slandering whoever they construe as their opponents. So, as to the NIV's translators what actual evidence do they have that any particular member of its translation committee was a practicing homosexual? IMHO, they’re also being hypocritical, given that the KJV translation was itself authorised by the King James who had 'relationships' with his male courtiers...
KJV-onlyists also make nonsensical copyright claims, on the one hand trumpeting the KJV's supposed lack of copyright and accusing other translations of changing a certain percentage of the text, corrupting it just so they can profit by having copyright protection. These KJV-onlyists conveniently overlook the fact that the KJV is itself protected by royal prerogative which predates copyright. The KJV's royal prerogative remains protected under s.171(1)(b) of the UK's Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
The KJV is hardly the world's best translation for today, either. Though a commendable translation in its day, it contains many archaic words that are either no longer in use or whose meaning has changed in the 400 years since it was written, making it difficult and, sometimes, misleading for most modern readers. Furthermore, the KJV's translators drew heavily from the Tyndale Bible - about 5/6 (83%) of the KJV New Testament is Tyndale's words and about 3/4 (76%) of the KJV Old Testament is Tyndale's words. In turn, Tyndale's New Testament was translated into English using Erasmus’ 3rd printed edition of the text compiled from only eight Greek manuscripts (all dated from the 11th to 16th centuries, with heavy reliance on manuscripts from the 12th to 14th centuries). The translators of the KJV didn't examine any manuscripts for themselves. What they used was _printed critical editions_ (not actual manuscripts) of the Greek & Hebrew texts produced by Erasmus, Stephanus & Bezae - and even the Latin Vulgate.
Some KJV-onlyists will also tell you the KJV is based on what is called the Textus Receptus. However, there was no such thing as what the Textus Receptus when the KJV was first published, in 1611. The Textus Receptus as we now know it wasn't compiled until 1894 (i.e. 283 years later) by Scrivener, who looked for _printed editions_ (again, not actual manuscripts) of the Greek & Hebrew texts supporting the KJV translation, from which he then created the Textus Receptus. Since then, the Textus Receptus has been revised many times and today there are over 100 versions of it. So which Textus Receptus do KJV-onlyists say we should rely on and what makes that edition the one and only "correct" one?
KJV-onlyists would even have us treat the _Comma Johanneum_ (1 John 5:7) as a genuine part of that Epistle in spite of the only Greek manuscript containing the _Comma Johanneum_ is that well-known 16th century forgery, Codex Montfortianus, which the RCC used to sneak the verse into Erasmus' 3rd printed edition of the Greek New Testament in 1522 and, from there, into the KJV and, ultimately, into the Textus Receptus.
Additionally, we now _know_ that the _Pericope Adulterae_ (John 7:53-8:11) is a later addition to John's Gospel and that Mark 16:9-20 is a later addition to Mark's Gospel. As such, none of these passages deserve the canonical status the KJV and Textus Receptus give them.
At Matthew 19:9, Erasmus edited the Greek text of the manuscript he used so that instead of reading _μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ_ (mē epi porneia), it read _εἰ μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ_ (ei mē epi porneia), subtly changing its meaning. That affected the KJV and is replicated in the Textus Receptus also.
Furthermore, the Textus Receptus contains supposed Greek readings that have absolutely no manuscript support, especially in Revelation. For example, the reference to "Thou art righteous, O _Lord,_ which art, and wast, _and shalt be_ " in the KJV and Textus Receptus at Revelation 16:5 is not supported by _any_ manuscript evidence. _Every_ known manuscript contains the equivalent of "Righteous art thou, which art and which wast, _thou Holy One_ ". Indeed, there is _no_ Greek manuscript support for the Textus Receptus' last six verses of Revelation - Erasmus simply created his own version of the Greek text by translating from the Latin Vulgate's text into Greek.
The KJV also mistranslates Ephesians 3:9 and Acts 5:30, amongst many others, and is inferior in its attestation to the deity of Christ (in Romans 9:5 and John 1:18, for example). For similar reasons it fails to give the "and so we are" (καί ἐσμέν) reaffirmation of the Christian's status at 1 John 3:1. It also mistranslates 'children' there as 'sons'.
If those things don't bother KJV-onlyists, on what basis do they claim the KJV is more accurate than any other translatoon and that the Textus Receptus is more reliable than the manuscripts preferred by almost everyone else (which manuscripts KJV-onlyists claim are erroneous)? KJV-onlyists would do well to read something scholarly, like Metzger's _The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission Corruption and Restoration._
KJV-onlyists also resort to such facile arguments as manuscripts of the Alexandrian text-type (eg Codex Alexandrinus & Codex Sinaiticus) being the product of Egyptian heretics - simply because Egypt is often presented as Israel's nemesis in Scripture - and the false claim that Codex Sinaiticus is a 19th-century forgery. They conveniently forget about Apollos of Alexandria (Acts 18:24-28; 1 Corinthians 1:12; 3:4-6; 4:6; 16:12), with whom Paul ministered and whom Paul commended to the Corinthian church and that, in 4th century, Athanasius of Alexandria was Christian orthodoxy's greatest defender against Arianism. Athanasius might even have used Codex Sinaiticus as his reference text... Constantin von Tischendorf discovered Codex Sinaiticus at Saint Catherine's Monastery in 1844. However, in an article in _The Guardian_ of 13 September 1862, Constantine Simonides - a dealer in icons and manuscripts (numerous of which he forged) - claimed to have written Codex Sinaiticus in 1839. The claim was soon debunked but is nonetheless taken as 'proof' by KJV-onlyists that Codex Sinaiticus is not the 4th-century manuscript paleographic experts say that it is. None date it later than the early 5th century. As recently as 1975, more folios from Codex Sinaiticus were found in parts of the Monastery that had been sealed off for centuries before Tischendorf discovered it. One wonders how those relying on Simonides explain that!
Some KJV-onlyists even go so far as to claim the KJV translation was itself inspired and is thus infallible, ignoring the fact that, in their preface to the KJV, its translators admitted the fallibility of their translation and anticipated future revisions. These same KJV-onlyists conveniently ignore the status of the Apocrypha in all of this. The Apocrypha was included in the KJV of 1611, but most KJV-onlyists reject it.
On the slandering front, some KJV-onlyists defame Westcott and Hort, the editors of _The New Testament in the Original Greek,_ the first text-critical edition of the Greek text of the New Testament, published in 1881 - 13 years before today's Textus Receptus came into existence. Manuscripts studied by Westcott and Hort included: Codex Alexandrinus; Codex Bezae; Codex Claromontanus; Codex Ephraemi; Codex Sinaiticus; and Codex Vaticanus. Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1901) and Fenton John Anthony Hort (1828-1892) were scholars and theologians and Westcott was an Anglican bishop. The manifold slanders against Westcott and Hort are typified in the writings of J Hyles, N Jones, G A Riplinger, P Ruckman, D Sorenson, and D A Waite. Such slanders commonly include that either or both were occultists who denied Jesus’ deity, His resurrection, the inspiration and infallibility of scripture, etc., and, on that basis, all modern translations of the Bible employing the text-critical methods pioneered by Erasmus (whose Greek New Testament was foundatonal to the Textus Receptus) are not to be trusted when refined by Westcott and Hort and take account of the earliest manuscripts.
Most modern practitioners of New Testament text criticism have endorsed the findings of Westcott and Hort, that the Neutral text-type best reflects the autographs of the New Testament text. The Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies texts of the Greek New Testament differ far more from the Textus Receptus than they do from the text of Westcott and Hort.
I trust you'll find the above useful.
Has anyone published online the comment removed from Erhman’s book appendix? I would like to refer to a readable web post in my apologetics.
Can we have a similar one about the ot
Can we know who copied what or where it was copied?
If we found an early manuscript, how would we even know if it was the original or not??
So good!
"unbelief bleeding on your scholarship" nice
Which is right, Alexandria or majority text?
What ever became of the first century 'mummy mask' Mark passage that was found in 2011?
I am in a debate with an atheist about the authenticty of the Bible. He states the stories in the OT are fiction.
How do I respond to that? What authorities should I use in response to that ?
Kind of hard to deny historical evidence of Isreals lineage of lords categorized from tail to head. Beyond that roman accounts of christ are unmistakable. Other prominent names and leaders of the time period are found in historical nonbiblical text. So with a foundation in history, the stories validity are hard to deny. You can if you are willing to be cognitively dissonant, the inherent truths that can be found within the parables is undeniable and universal. The truth, the life christ with his holy father insured that those who seek shall find. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink my man.
Ok so which bible do you use?
I really reverence and truly appreciate the KJV; however, I read a wide variety of translations. Even the NLT
@Theodore Barrett Sr. Go to BibleGateway.com and use the Parallel feature to compare up to 5 versions at a time. You'll find the MESSAGE of God does not change, however readability does change as well as understanding the MESSAGE the passage is communicating. BibleGateway will make this apparent very quickly. It also has the Mounce Interlinear (Greek-English), two Jewish English translations and Wycliffe.
After a while you'll probably find yourself liking one version or several. For me the go-to Bibles are the NIV and ESV. The NIV does a great job making the MESSAGE flow without tripping up over punctuation or making it complex for no good reason.
Stay away from paraphrases like The Message. Personally I don't like MEV and CEV. Its very rare that a passage will read different between almost all versions. I did find one OT passage that had different meaning in about 17 of 20 versions. That tells you there is a problem understanding what the ancient Hebrew means and Bible translators are seeing it differently. But this is only once I've seen anything so dramatic.
What is interesting is seeing how the KJV twists and mangles passages compared what it means.>>
KJV 2 Corinth 12/ Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. NIV 2 Corinth 12/ We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us.
KJV Philemon 1:7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.
NIV 2 Corinth 12/ Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the Lord’s people.
@@Baltic_Hammer6162 not a criticism of your comment, it is a great answer and I agree. I would just, respectfully point out that the KJV hasn't mangled the meaning. In fact it is our changing and "mangling" of the English language and the meaning and usage of words that has caused our understanding of what message is being conveyed to be faulty. Again, I'm not trying to criticise or argue against your comment, but the KJV hasn't changed the meaning of the message, the obsession with changing the meaning of words in English (oftentimes reversing the meaning completely) is at fault. God's word is preserved, it is us that have corrupted our own understanding. God bless
@@lellyt2372 Maybe the message was in 1611 vernacular but its long gone, just as Old Norse or Low Saxon, from the language of English speakers. Today's English speakers don't use the terms, meanings, words or unique convoluted sentence structure. So yes, the KJV mangles the message. Its the one and only reason the KJV was a stumbling block to me understanding the Bible deeper than a superficial skimming over the tops.
Another example of mangling the Scriptures is the glossing over and convolution of homosexuality, which I find very disturbing and lends credence to the stories of King James 1 was a flaming gay.
1Timothy1:10
NIV-- for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.
KJV-- For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;