Furtwängler Beethoven No 4 most lively! Berlin Philharmonic Alte Philharmonie 1943. Special transfer
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2016
- Furtwangler conducted Beethoven's symphony No. 4 in four concerts, 27th - 30th June 1943 in the Alte Philharmonie Berlin, as part of a pure Beethoven program, together with Coriolan overture and the 5th Symphony. MOVEMENTS: I 0:11 II 11:23 III 23:23 IV 29:03 - INTRODUCTION & TIPS:
Robert Schumann considered Beethoven's No. 4 as "greek and slender (griechisch schlank)". Most conductors follow him. Christian Thielemann even speaks of No. 4 as an "anti-climax" or a "taking breath" between the powerful 3rd and 5th. In opposition to this general opinion Furtwängler puts No. 4 in the same league with its neighbours in 1943. For him it was also a heroic work with a struggle between two principles, ending with an ecstatic final movement that in this performance is truly overwhelming.
Who is right? There is no indication that Beethoven followed a simple pattern that heroic works should alternate with lighter ones (the even-numbered symphonies). After the war Furtwängler changed some things in the performances of the 4th. But his only later live recording of the 4th with audience (Munich 1953) is again quite heroic and dramatic in character.
The transfer makes no use of any digital manipulations (filtering, equalization etc.), because (with my equipment) they all reduce liveliness (even if sound comes better).
Some tips for listening this upload best: Remember that the computer is not designed for music reproduction. If you just listen without bothering many things will reduce the quality of what you want to enjoy, hence your enjoyment itself. I recommend the following steps:
1) If you have a powerful computer with good sounding speakers I recommend the 720p option of UA-cam (1080p provides better pictures but often less liveliness of music.). In case of a weak computer choose 480p.
2) Close all computer programs you do not need at the moment. If you can switch off the screen do so.
3) I recommend Google's Chrome browser for UA-cam videos.
4) If you own a good Hifi system connect your computer with it. Best via a good USB digital-to-analogue converter and an audiophile USB cable.
A huge Thank You from a life long (b. 1944) Furtwangler fan. My love comes from his music making and how he brings his orchestra to join him. Historically correct? Hardly. Precise playing? Hardly. Vision? Absolutely! Instructional? Absolutely! I look forward to more finds that this one. Bravo!
Thank you for your telling comment! I agree with you with one exception. Do you really believe that Furtwangler and his orchestra could create such a strong impact without precision? Menuhin once described this special kind of precision as shaping a fluid against the usual kind of precision of shaping something solid. And he said that the first is much more difficult.
I might have chosen my words more carefully. I had in mind Toscanini's rhythmic precision, tight section playing and intonation as models of playing precisely. Toscanini was the popular idol of my youth - NBC Orchestra, etc. Furtwangler was held in low regard back then. What I would like to turn an eye to is differences in musical values and, consequently, musical culture they represent. Big differences - and well worth exploring. These differences preceded concerns about performance history or period instruments. For me, that makes the contrast all the more interesting and discerning. Wagner, Richard Strauss, Bruckner come immediately to mind. How Karajan carried Berlin & Vienna traditions forward from Furtwangler - and many others interest me. And, so, that is why I love your remasterings of these amazing conductors and approaches to music making. Many Thanks, again!!
One could only wish all conductors were like him. In reality there is only him.
Well Said, Mr. Palau!
Thanks, Joe - I've learned quite a bit from your comments and will continue to learn more - this is what makes music so entirely fascinating!
@33:14 The bassoon solo. There is a wonderful story of a London orchestra at about the same time of this recording and the bassoonist who was struggling to get spare parts for his treasured instrument; parts being so difficult to find during the war. The bassoon was stuffed with cotton wool, rags and string to try to keep it from squeaking, wailing and moaning. During rehearsals for Beethoven's fourth, and this part at 33:14 the bassoonist was having a tremendous difficult time with the solo, and asked to try again and again and again, with lots of dreadful sounds emanating from the bassoon.
During a break, a violinist played the solo on his instrument showing off, at which the bassoonist stopped trying to repair his instrument, put it down and marched over to the violinist, picked up the violin and bow, and played the solo perfectly. He handed back the violin and bow telling the astounded violinist.
"Now you go and play it on that bloody thing".
I just love that story. I think of it every time I hear the fourth movement and think of Beethoven and his bassoon jokes as written in his music.
That mysterious - almost ominous start is absolutely unique in Beethovens days.
Cette symphonie a tout d'une "grande", alors qu'elle est un peu oubliée. Son introduction lente et mystérieuse est absolument magnifique. Furtwängler est parfaitement dans son élément.
What distinguishes Furtwängler : the incredible Imagination, his perception of the feelings preceding the music itself, his clousness to the source of creation, to where the music comes from in Spirit ! I never ever heard such an enthousiasm in the last mouvement of this symphonie, they really give everything, it's unbelievable, a miracle !
I think you touched the truth. No one ever got closer to the source of creation, his performances are revelations, i never heard anything like these.
A very insightful comment, thank you. I totally agree.
The world is a riddle for each of us, when artists describe it, they try to explain it to us. Beethoven shows how he understood it. He again amazes us, but we can understand the world more through him and Furtwängler makes us understand Beethoven best.
E X T R A O R D I N A R Y ! ! ! Beethoven and Furtwängler two Genius ! Thanks !
Furtwaengler, one of the greatest without discussion. The uncomparable art of Beethoven is on fire whit him
Great by the Great Furtwangler!
I bet you've never heard the 4th like this before. It's like an undiscovered new symphony. Two congenial giants at work.
Immortal performance;Inmortal music.
This is the greatest of the documented Furtwangler Beethoven 4ths, a performance of such majesty, mystery, and depth that one thinks it the equal of the 'Eroica' and 5th Symphonies; an unforgettable and unique performance.
My favourite conductor !!!
Interpretazione superlativa… oserei dire ieratica
Spannungsbögen! Dynamiken! Tiefen ... Eine sagenhafte Aufnahme. Danke fürs Einstellen!
Outstanding performance!!! Poetic and empathic.....Furwangler at his best...
Perfect immortal tempo by the great conductor.
Possibly the best and most convincing recording ever. Our modern conductors (with a few notable exceptions render the Firt movement as though they are running a race...
The most joyful, brilliant performance of my favorite Beethoven work. Bravo and thanks
Grossartig, der beste Dirigent
I replaced my first video of this recording by an improved version. It is so much better in sound, that the replacement was necessary. Especially the problem of the weak bass is solved. Thank you for the nice comment, the likes and more than 260 clicks within two weeks. The first version was certainly quite good, but now enjoy the better one.
Living Pas
Your lively dialogues with Joe Palau add a great deal of intellectual stimulation and interest to these very exciting musical renditions. Thank you both!
Esecuzione magica! Sacrale in senso religioso. Una preghiera in musica ove il desiderio di pace prevale sul sentimento eroico che vive nel genere umano. La 4^ sinfonia non
ha nulla da invidiare alle altre. Anzi è un momento unico del compositore. E quella volta in piena tempesta bellica il “Maestro deve averla sentita e trasmessa al publico in un silenzio assordante ma fragoroso.
Каждый пассаж выражает желание композитора....БРАВИССИМО!!!
Living Past - Thank You Very Much !!!!!
Unforgettable. Unbelievable. It was the year 1943, the approaching Apocalypse the horror.
But "Porta Inferi non prevalebunt".
Furtwangler delineates the ghost
and stretches it into the spirit.
Furtwangler makes this climax
truly climatic. It tumbles us all
in, and we are snowmen in the
Himalayas.
I Love Furtwängler
Magnífico, hermosa interpretación la la4ta de l V B. Que mejor que con Furtwangler conductor.
Thank you very much for this excellent transfer. I never thought Beethoven's fourth symphony as a dark one. However, Mr. Furtwanger's reading showed the side I missed before.
I will eagerly wait for your next project.
Grüße!
Auch unter dieses Video muss ich kommentieren. Wiederum umwerfend tolle Tonqualität!
Herzlichsten Dank und Grüße aus Österreich!
this performance is quite the revelation - immensely moving
Gracias por compartir este concierto histórico, patrimonio de la humanidad.
Saludos desde México.
Thanks, wonderful document!
Thanks again for your replacement of greatest performance by our Furtwangler. Yes, it is better quality in sound, not only in bass but also more vivid in every tone, which gives me more presice, real & powerful perfoprmance in the concert. He createdvery unique and superb 4th symphony no other conductor played. Very fortunate to listnen to this performance in better sound. And thanks for your tips recommendation such as browser and nice pictures of each movements. Thanks a lot. JWK
Muy lindo concierto!! Verdaderamente genial, adorable música
A hymn of love.
😍😍You're so right! 6:29 especially.
Fabulous! Thanks for sharing. Look forward to future installments! Mark.
Overwhelming.. WF really gets inside The Maestro. This is simply glorious. Thank you so much. MW
I grew up with the Toscanini recording. In the flrst movement, Toscanini's pace is more uniform than Furtwsngler's. Furtwangler plays the slower passages really slowly and goes through the faster passages more quickly than in used to. I like both performances, The sound in this performance is excellent, considering its age. I've heard nuances in this performance that I never heard before.
I grew up my self with my mother and father ha ha
Tell me when to stop laughing
@@bobthompson551 You simply have to ask Toscanini
thanks for your notes, especially the advice on listening via computer etc.
Prodigioso resultado del maestro y su centuria de músicos. El sobrecogedor clima del Berlín en guerra, realza y armoniza cuanto de heroico y dramático ofrece la 4ª sinfonía a los escuchantes, guiados por al magisterio, fuerza y elegancia de W. Furtwängler.
I appreciated the listening tips very much. Important!
ich glaube, dass nur furtwängler so richtig aufzeigen kann, dass beethoven doch der größte symphoniker war!
today is the 250th anniversary of the most significant of births - stop wretched world & rejoice! & do it best with Furtwangler
Gran realización de Furtwängler que, junto a otros maestros - que no son tantos- prueban lo que es una gran verdad: las sinfonías pares son tan excelsas como las impares; que la gracia, la comedia y la alegría (diosa del Elíseo) son tan profundas, o más, que el drama y lo heroico... según Karajan esta era la sinfonía más difícil de hacer.
Thank You for uploading!
In classical music, the conductor makes a huge difference in how the music presents itself.
Furtwangler could be considered old fashioned, but that is simply a label.
Similarly to jazz, the leader of an ensemble is usually the key to the experience.
Even though these recordings are over 75 years old, the interpretation of this conductor clearly comes through.
VERY NICE performance
Strepitoso ed inarrivabile Furtwangler!!!!!!!!!
Si. Ci sono decine di interpreti tra il bravo e bravissimo ma nessuno è come Lui. Adoro il suo interpretare libero che è diverso da fare il guardiano dello spartito come molti direttori di oggi predicano. Noi, degustatori della musica, ci aspettiamo che lo stesso brano, ascoltato più volte, ci, sorprenda, ogni volta altrimenti va bene un disco.
thanks for this. great performance and your work to get better sound is great job.
thanks again and keep up. all the conductors today are garbage quality. without the past performers there would be no point
best wishes
Beautiful performance ! Thank you for posting !
Shame about the circumstances under which it was made. The war was turning against Germany at the time, and Italy was capitulating. Those concerts were made mainly for propaganda purposes.
Magnifique !
Thanks.
¡Espectacular!
WF was born into Beethoven and combined with the Berlin Phil: during before and after WW11 he
introduces us to the finest god given music.
Tempo - finale unwirklich gut
Second movement: This is the way time passes: in a nick of
time, and a pounding of eternity.
Qué continuidad en la sonoridad, en especial en los agudos, como se prolonga una sonoridad en la siguiente para manejar las tensiones ! Un genio de la interpretación.
Mario Carlos Ginzburg
I'M CRYING.I'VE LOVED DIE DEUTCHES'43
This is rarely performed symphony . Due to its technical difficulty . The most difficult is a solo of bassoon in final . Besides , there are many other technical difficulties for strings and for the rest of the orchestra in other movements of this genius symphony . If you have a chance to listen to this symphony live in a concert , you are very lucky ! Это редко исполняемaя симфония. Из-за технических трудностей. Самым сложным является соло фагота в финале. Кроме того, есть много других технических трудностей для струнных и для остальной части оркестра в других движениях этой гениальной симфонии. Если у вас есть возможность послушать эту симфонию на концерте, вам очень повезло!
Fun to play though! And listen to as well!
It's not nearly as difficult as a piece by Richard Strauss or Igor Stravinsky! I think the reason it's underperformed is that Beethoven's other symphonies are so famous, this one tends to get overlooked. A pity-it's just as great as the rest of them, very similar to the 8th in character. I've been to a concert where it was performed-wonderful experience!
Furtwängler war zweifelsohne ein großer Dirigent.
Mir wird nur elendlich schlecht, wenn ich Beethoven höre und Nazis auch! Das wäre das Letzte was Beethoven wollte!
Kein Problem. Vor der Besetzung Deutschlands durch die USA ab 1918 gab es keine Nazis in Deutschland. Die braune war eben die erste der heute so einschlägig bekannten Farbenrevolutionen. You see?
@@vdodenstein5754 Sehr richtig. Nur: wer ist heute schon in der Lage, die Wahrheit in Ihrem Beitrag zu erkennen? Ich fürchte, es gibt wenig Anlass zu Hoffnung; Hoffnung, das Deutsche Volk könnte diese "Farbrevolution" überstehen.
@@thomaskunze8196 Es hat funktioniert, wir sind... DURCH.
This is beautiful! Thanks for uploading.
As someone in music composition, a wonderful exercise is to take the symphony up to the near end of the opening Adagio (~ 3:32) and stop the music. Then ask the student what would you do for the continuation? The usual response is a deeper appreciation for the genius of Beethoven.
I love those deceptive slow introductions! Haydn was a master of them as well.
ヴォルフガング・ヴァン・ベートーヴェン 交響曲第４番 ベルリンフィルハーモニー交響楽団演奏
ウィルヘルム・フルトヴェングラー指揮 大 賛 辞
フルトヴェングラーの苦難の時であり、ドイツ国民の不幸と悲惨の時でもありました。我ら日本国民は、場所は、違えど同じ苦難を味わった国民同士互いに理解し合いよき友として、断固世界の悪しき潮流に立ち向かわなければならないと微動だにしないように敢然と
邪悪に立ち向かわなければならないと思うのであります。その時最も重要なものが、このようなヴォルフガング・ヴァン・ベートーヴェンの傑出した音楽であります。
＜ In opposition to this general opinion Furtwängler puts No. 4 in the same league with its neighbours in 1943. For him it was also a heroic work with a struggle between two principles,＞ Right.
Ａ performance as divine-possessed as Beethoven himself's one.
Qué tiene que ver el carácter heroico de una obra con que pertenezca a una liga superior o no? Si es de otro carácter y hay un genio puede ser tan excelsa como las obras heroicas o dramáticas... la comedia y la risa son tan, o más, profundas que aquellas. Fürtwängler, está realmente espléndido, no hace falta recordarlo... Una cosa más y es la que importa: resulta que las sinfonías pares son tan extraordinarias como las impares... por eso son las nueve de Beethoven.
Toda una joya esta interpretación en perdurar de este genial conductor, el cual se negó siempre en realizar el saludo nazi al final de sus interpretaciones.
This is so lively it;s as catchy as pop music.
I like the predominance of percussion in this performance. Seems what Beethoven intended.
This indeed was the year of the approaching end of the Nazi regime. Berlin and other major German cities were being bombed day and night. The Africa Corps was decimated in Africa the U-Boats were suffering horrendous losses in the Atlantic - The Red Army was advancing and the disaster was about of unfolding in Stalingrad.
Seltsam, dass ein Engländer Furtwängeler mehr schätzt als seine eigenen Landsleute.
I like this performance as well as his performance of Beethoven's 7th recorded also in 1943, during the war. If Beethoven heard these he would not be satisfied without reserve because they were used for the wrong war waged by a dictator though he would admit the tempo and dynamics are just he himself wanted. A rare divine-possessed rendition for an ominous country, its peple and their war. I like it with an intense feeling of contradiction. An ideal rendition of the symphony of explosion.
One week after this recording began the Battle of Kursk. 2.6 Mio participiants, 1.1 Mio came to death, beginning of the end of WWII
Kursk was the decider, we must not ever forget Russia's contribution to ending Germanys madness.
German 6th army surrounded by the Russians and this is being played back home...wonderful interpretation.
Contextual reading at its best. Allerachtung!
This means in klarer Text :
"The communists could win the war, but our music stays alive"
Love the Fourth. Great performance. I'm guessing a super special transfer would be erasing crowd noises. I know the technology exists. 🎧
Each step of cleaning the sound will cause loss of livelyness.
Furtwangler, Beethoven’s conductor. No one, in particular Toscanini, even comes close.
Furtwangler is Beethoven from childhood born and breed. God rest his musical soul.
I don't like such sharp and exaggeratedly assertive judgments. Toscanini was "the classical way" of Beethoven's interpretation, the more "technical" and objective than Furtwängler's more "improvised" and subjective, idealistic one. I love both, and I would never allow myself to say that one of them is superior to the other.
my gosh. what a drama.what a full of teathrical performance
This is a much underrated work by Beethoven. Its artistic value is comparable to No. 3, 5, 6, 7, and 9
Furtwangler tell a story
Bonjour ! Bon travail même si, parfois, la réverbération (Furtwängler n'a, en effet, jamais "commis" de stéréo) nuit un peu au message musical. Il serait important de savoir à partir de quelle source le travail a été effectué : les bandes d'origine ? Un pressage ultérieur ? (souvent mauvais, d'ailleurs, tellement les pirates sont nombreux). Pour ma part, les meilleures mastérisations que j'aie entendu sont, dans l'ordre : Tahra, la Société Wilhelm Furtwängler, Music and Arts. Merci beaucoup pour votre travail...
si fait! si fait! F. a été enregistré en stéréo (et même si ce n'était qu'un embryon de stéréo c'était malgré tout déjà de la stéréo) à Berlin en 1945, dans le 5ème de Beethoven....(on y entend aussi les coups de canons russes dangereusement proches de la ville ....) j'ai oublié le nom du pianiste .....Et j'ai perdu le CD.......La stéréo a mis de longues années avant de resurgir en Angleterre,....vers 58/59, non?..... Gieseking qui enregistrait son Beethoven à Londres à cette époque n'a pas pu bénéficier de cette technique ,renversé par un bus (je crois que tout ce que je vous dis là est exact)
@@antoinezygfryd Bonjour à vous. Merci pour votre réponse. C'est toujours agréable d'échanger sur ces sujets.
Vous commettez cependant une petite confusion. Ce n'est pas Furtwängler qui a été enregistré en stéréo en 1945 mais Arthur Rother, chef un peu oublié aujourd'hui. Il s'agissait du 5e concerto pour piano et orchestre "Empereur" de Beethoven. Le pianiste était justement Walter Gieseking. L'enregistrement date du 23 janvier 1945. On entend les tirs de la Flak allemande dans les pianissimi du 1er mouvement. La fréquence des tirs indique qu'il s'agit d'un bombardement américain, donc nocturne.
Cette bande a été publiée assez brillamment en 2004 par Music and Arts (CD 1145(1)), avec une bonne restauration effectuée par Aaron Z Snyder.
Il s'agissait d'un enregistrement bicanal, comme cela s'appelait à l'époque. La stéréo, comme on l'a appelée par la suite, avait été expérimentée dans les années 30 par Alan Blumlein. Des essais ont aussi été réalisés et enregistrés en 1936 sur la 36e symphonie de Mozart, je crois, lors d'un concert dirigé par Adrian Boult dans la salle du consortium BASF en Allemagne.
Furtwängler n'a jamais enregistré en stéréo, contrairement à Toscanini, cela m'a été confirmé par de l'entourage familial du Dirigent !
Tout ce qui peut être édité en stéréo soit-disant de Furtwängler est soit du traitement sonore de type ambient stéréo, soit du bidouillage.
Bien à vous.
wow that intro was dark
Vergiss nicht, in welcher Zeit das aufgeführt wurde. Nach meiner Meinung hatte Furtwängler seine tiefste / größte Schaffensperiode 1943 - 45. Wie kein Anderer hat er die Tragik dieser Zeit durch seine Musik bzw Interpretation sprechen lassen - ohne die Musik dabei hoffnungslos klingen zu lassen. - Naja, so sehe ich das halt ... Alles Gute wünsche ich Dir!
@Living Past: Why not go with Brahms?
I started with piano concerto No 2 by Brahms and will certainly bring more music of him. Several old tapes are waiting but it will take time because my way of transfering them into the UA-cam world is difficult and time consuming. Thank you for your interest.
Furtwangler l'homme dont Adolphe H...... avez peur ! Le plus grand chef d'orchestre de tous les temps !
Se lo sviluppo e il divenire non è un opinione Furtwängler dovrebbe essere stato superato. Invece no. Qual mistero.
わたしは1952年のウィーンフイルのスタジオ録音の方が好きです
Infinitely better than the 5th! Roger Nortman
At least, Second World War was useful for one thing. Furtwängler's inspiration.
Einmaliger Kommentar. Bravo!
ベルリンフイルだからどうした演奏してもみんな不思議に思わないと多分に甘えがないだろうかウイーンフイルと明らかにちがう
Why is Furtwängler's music always dark ?
Because you're blind!
@@MilaGontcharova Guess you are as dark as he is.
Don`t forget, in which period of time (II. war) it was played.
Sounds like a big mess.
Karajan is much better.
ahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahah.....ma rate éclate......
Really bad.
Gregory Peterson Increíble... that comment
If you are serious you must say who is "really good", to appreciate the difference.