📌 ATTENTION: The Force Feedback Stick (FFBeast) is now available for pre-order! Find it here: ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joystick.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 🎥 Watch my other FFBeast Force Feedback stick videos: Flying With a Force Feedback Stick in DCS is AMAZING | MiG-29A: ua-cam.com/video/os7p_JAkNwA/v-deo.html Flying Helicopters with a Force Feedback Stick is AMAZING! | DCS Huey - FFBeast: ua-cam.com/video/jCVv6S5OrWI/v-deo.html The ULTIMATE Helicopter Control Set Up in DCS!: ua-cam.com/video/Z07doswrWoY/v-deo.html
Oh yes a random page hosted on github without an imprint or any information who is behind it. Probably no electrical certification process either. Lovely way to either get it seized by customs or straight up ripped off when they miscalculate how much it actually costs to produce bespoke hardware.
Being big into sim racing and flight sims I always wondered why force feedback sticks weren’t more of a thing when no one would dream of having a wheel without feedback, obviously its easier to fly than to drive without it but seeing setups worth thousands of pounds without any feeling through the stick seems crazy
As opposed to a single peripheral (wheels usually bundled w/ pedals) a flight simulator "build" or parts list consists of A. Flight control stick, B. Usually a separate throttle investment, C. Followed by a good rudder pedal (toe brakes cost extra) D. Then the simulator E. and that dictates the performance of the pc. Take all that into consideration and calculate the avg life-span of your vehicles starter motor as opposed to window or wiper motor (you replace the starter more often is the point) and figure your FFB stick motor(s) may
They aren't a thing because up until 2021 there was a patent troll not allowing anyone to use the patent at all. Back in the early 2000s there was many FFB joysticks it wasn't until some random ass company patented it that they went away.
Keep the stick in your lap when you start rolling to lock the tail gear (once its straight of course). That'll keep your takeoffs a little smoother, let it slide forward as you hit your t/o speed so the wheel lifts off the ground.
@@CommandT at about 90-100 mph yes, and then a real smooth pullback at 120 should have you up real quick like. Even if you're loaded with lots of fuel and explosives.
You keep the stick back at the start of the roll as there is generally insufficient aerodynamic forces generated by the rudder to maintain directional control, thus on the mustang it has a tailwheel lock that is active with the stick aft, then as the speed builds you centre the stick and that allows a few degrees of tail wheel movement, though at this point unless extremely heavy you can then go stick forward to get the tail up and level. In some aircraft there is a deadzone where there isn't enough airflow over the rudder to stop yaw but where there is also blanking from the elevator blocking said airflow to the rudder.@@CommandT
No... that's where the tail wheel lock is on the mustang. You also don't want to push the nose down as you risk a prop strike. You want the plane properly trimmed, hold back pressure to lock tail wheel till you are fast enough the rudder is effective, then center the stick. If done right the tail will take care of itself and the plane should fly without any real backpressure. @@CommandT
This is how planes like airbuses do it. They put what we call artificial feel on the sidesticks and rudder pedals. Deliberate resistance. It ensures proper intuitive feel when handling the flight controls. And it also helps prevent accidental jerking of the controls should your hand twitch or shift unexpectedly.
Airbus sidesticks don't have any force feedback or physical linking to flight control loads. They use springs and gas dampeners to achieve their resistance.
Back when European Air War was still a new game I used a force feedback stick. It was awesome. It really took some effort to move that thing when you got past 400 knots.
Force trim works just fine in VPforce Rhino (also an FFB base) and it is why I can use trim now. Trim with non-ffb stick was a no go, I just ignored it completely and flew the stick at all times. FFB is great.
For me it was a big improvement to get the feedback through bass shakers to feel the stall. An ffb stick would improve the feel of the airplane even more. Love it!
Would be nice if you could make a video about the software and setup side of things perhaps? I know that for a competitor stick the VPforce Rhino another user showed sort of what was needed to tune the settings and get the stick working, as well as a bit of a discussion of how the stick reduces power if the motors get too hot. Is this stick similarly limited temperature wise etc? ive been an FFB convert since buying an old sidewinder years ago. Its a great little stick but obviously not nearly as precise or with as many buttons as the modern HOTAS sticks like warthog etc. Something like this or the VPforce with a proper HOTAS grip and full length seem very cool, even if fairly pricy.
I will do a video about the software side of it in the future for sure. There’s zero heating issues here. Maybe because I’m using so little of what the motors are capable of since I have such a short stick extension.
@@CommandT They won't get too hot even with generous settings and an extender. AFAIK, Roman has tuned current restrictions for optimal motor temperatures. Temperature monitoring has been suggested and on the wish list.
As a (somewhat) glider pilot, the Lack of FFB Sticks really annoys me. The haptic Response is crucial for Our sim Training and how to deal with crosswind and up- and downdrafts. I really hope this gets more popular soon, top Tier video
Trimming has been the biggest pain especially with my winwing full extension F18 with medium springs. This will be a game changer. Sent request for pre order!
This really makes me think of the stories of Mig15s compressing so hard at high speeds that pilots would bend their sticks trying to pull up! Would love to see how it is on this FFB Stick! :D
Vielen Dank für deinen interessant en und auch emotionalen Reisebericht,der uns auch durch die Drohnenaufnahme n die grandiose Landschaft Afrikas zeigt
Very nice, however, very late P-51D-5s and later (earlier Mustangs that had fuselage fuel tank were retrofitted) had a twenty pound bob weight installed on the elevator mid fuselage bell-crank. This maintained a steady pull forward on the stick at all times the aircraft was level so if you had the stick in neutral or aft position while on the ground with engine off it would "fall" forward to the stop if you let go. This mod was done to counter the unstable aft CG condition when operating at gross weight with the fuselage fuel tank full. In this condition as the aircraft exceeded ~2 positive G the stick would progressively push back harder trying to increase the G load. I have heard that some current operators have reduced the bob weight to ~10 lbs.
It has long amazed me how rare FFB is in flying. You can get el-cheapo sticks with it -- granted, not very good; but high-end stuff with FFB is hard to find and expensive AF. Yet in racing, FFB is considered essential and isn't all that expensive. I am pleased to notice that there seems to be more activity in the FFB flying world; pedals too, which is important.
@@CommandT I will build it, already build some Cockpit stuff, Pedals and so on, from Zero with Fusion360, 3d printer and CNC maschine. Huge respekt for the designer, this is above my Skill Level. Biggest problem I see is metal work. No skills and No tools jet.
35 nm is the torque I have to apply to do up the oil sump bolt on my car. So that is pretty impressive for a force feedback device to deliver that much torque.
Gawds! As a carnivore eater I am now eating just ground beef and saving my money for this stick! Looks amazing but I know that the real beauty of it cant be shown in a video as its just pure feel.
I dug up my Logitech 3D Force joystick that i stripped on day one for a custom shifter just to experience ffb but apparently it doesn't work in DCS :( Works fine in FSX though...
$1600 excluding shipping for a ff gimbal is just to much for me to justify I'm sure its a great feeling in the hand .but my whole set up delivered didn't cost that much an i don't have the worst gear .. virpl warbird base winwing f 15e throttle an vkb pedals
Not even the best Virpil/Winwing/VKB bases compares to these new FFB bases coming out. They're just as smooth and accurate, and delivers a whole new peripheral that non-FFB bases simply can't match what so ever.
Ok i get that the feed back is nice but as i stated the gimbal alone costs more then my whole set up an it cant be any more accurate to control, the game can only use so much resolution an hall sensors already saturate that limit@@ToreDL87
I have the new Moza Base but i was just wondering if you get engine vibration from the P-47 because that is the only warbird that doesn't seem to have it for me.
No yeah I can understand the feeling from non force feedback to force feedback. I had that with simulator steering wheels where i tought ''theres no way its that good'' I ended up getting one and know I cant ever go back xD.... except there is one slight diffrence one is 270 and the OTHER IS 1000 xD (how will i ever get that amount of money)
Just tried DCS for the first time today with a gamepad (lol yeah i know) ..im planning on buying a cheap HOTAS for now, do i need to have the pedals? are they mandatory or can i fly and do everything pretyy decently without it ? Thnks and that was a very clean landing cant wait to perform a "decent" landing like that haha
If you can afford it, get at least some form of cheap rudder pedals and a throttle. It’ll be a lot better. But if your joystick has a twist grip you can use that for rudder. I’ve done so for many many years when I was a kid
@@CommandT thanks for the insight! For now I will go with joystick and throttle, any recommendations for a cheap joystick with that feature for the rudder part?
I honestly don't care about price... FFBeast is one of the first of its kind, having a universal attachment for most top-end flight sticks, and it being an amazing force feedback is just... The first of many realistic experiences to come.
Any vibrations when you fire the 50s? P-51 fact for you and the others. The radiator cowling at "speed", produces 200 lbs of thrust. The Mustang makes time, money, speed, and here comes the Honeys.
Actually I don’t think there’s currently any effect to make the stick shake when firing a gun. I assume it might be an effect that will get added later on with a software update
Back when I first started I had a Microsoft stick that had FFB while it was a cheesy stick it was still it was more fun because of the FFB I’ve had about 3 sticks since of much better quality but none had FFB . Just like you said why there aren’t more is a great question !
Because some marvelous company called Immersion Corp had the exclusive patent of Force Feedback on Joysticks, holding back any company that wanted to make one - so after Sidewinder 2 from Microsoft we didn't get any... Microsoft was sued by Immersion btw because they stated the Sidewinder was a "Tactile feedback man-machine interface device", since they had already the patent at the time, it ended up Microsoft settling out and buying 10% of Immersion shares... The company sued also Sony for the Dualshock controller for the same reason, but they didn't want to settle and Immersion won, getting paid 82million dollars Since some years the patent has expired and finally anyone can make one, who knows maybe even Microsoft will come back at it
I have a VKB with fw190/bf109 knupplegriff + thrust lever, I dream of another Force Feedback stick since the Sidewinders days (which I still have working, stored in my closet).... I'm really really really really tempted to build one since it's stated that is compatible with VKB products :o
I really just need someone to make a low-strength version of one of these that is just strong enough to hold in place an extended flight stick for helicopter trim. I just cant justify $1000 for proper helo trim. Maybe winwing will do something like that.
As planes are "fly by wire" systems there is regularly no force feedback on the steering. To be fully reliable there is some fake feedback on these. But generally its not wrong not to have feedback.
I think the concept is misunderstood. The point is not that it has feedback like driving a car with manual steering. It’s the fact that every plane has unique loading on the flight controls, irrespective of whether there is or is no feedback. And that’s what a force feedback stick gets you.
@@roman335i Why would the pre-order form be any different months later? If that's all they are taking now, the form shouldn't change. Unless your expecting no pre-order form and just a regular order form with shipping in a few days; but I suspect they are backlogged for anything like that.
@@roman335i Indeed, maybe you can cancel and sign up with VPforce Rhino? Or keep both on pre-order and wait to see who's first, and cancel the other when your turn comes up. I thought I would have to wait way over a year; but the list kept getting smaller in front of me (others canceling) and I'm now less than a month away. It may not have the same Nm force but the reviews are positive and about 30-50 are being made each month. They also have kits you can build yourself with stronger components. It's really cool to see so many FFB devices hitting the market now.
Wow it is perfect, no taxes. I would like to buye that ffb base in the future. I have vkb base with 200 mm extension. How would be the price with vkb adapter?
@@CommandT ah man, dam I would love that. I wish I had my channel high up to be able to qualify for reviews cuz that would be amazing to test out. I remember back in the 90’s there was a force feedback joystick that I fell in love with and now seeing this one. I have to get it lol
Thanks yet again for another video about this stick. I was wondering, I also play Star Citizen with a flightstick, do you know how the FFBeast behave while playing such games (I mean games that don't provide datas for force feedbacks) ?
If star citizen has outputs you can map loadings to (like trim position and airspeed) you might be able to rig up something interesting. I don’t know if this stick can model ‘bumps’ but weapons fire and hits might make a good mapping too if you can get event data from the game.
Came here to ask this. Or more like how does it feel to fly a fly by wire aircraft in real life, does it return to the center automatically? If it's all electronics, does it have some form of force feedback built in as well?
If only the other DCS warbirds had as good FFB implementations as the TF/P-51D does. It's the best by far and they seem to ignore it (at least to the point of not implementing it very well) on the newer ones. (I haven't been flying with my Logitech FFB for some time so perhaps that's changed, but I doubt it.) Don't expect this in the jets. Any aircraft with hydraulically boosted controls won't let you feel the airspeed like this. And modern FBW jets even more so, as they're making trim changes for you. (Though FBW planes like the Hornet are designed to require greater stick movement, and thus greater stick spring forces to work against, as the G load increases.) Speaking of trim changes, you made none in this video. You should have shown us you making major trim changes and the stick physically re-centering all by itself without your hand on it. (You can fly with trim only as long as you don't get too crazy.) In the helicopters it was absolutely amazing. Turn off Force Trim and the stick is just floppy (which is a way a lot of real chopper pilots prefer to fly the Huey). And when you enable Force Trim (like with the cockpit switch in the Huey, I don't mean in the Options), and pick a new trim position, the stick just wants to stay at that new "center" and none of the fake nonsense we have to do with quickly recentering the stick after making a Force Trim change happens. With a FFB stick it works just as it does in reality. No need to rely on that fake "Trim Reset" function to get out of trouble if your trim gets out of whack because it's always obvious where your trim is set, just by feel. You should also get a lot more difficult to move stick in the Huey if you disable the hydraulics, though with my FFB stick out of action I can't confirm that right now. Though there's still no meaningful flight forces communicated through the stick in helicopters. So, again, not nearly as informative when flying as what you'll get in the warbirds. Unfortunately I found many DCS modules didn't "play well" with my Logitech FFB. It made me wish we had force biasing controls in the Options. Many of the aircraft, including the TF/P-51, would not trim normally for me with my Logitech, with dramatically different trim wheel positions for the same flight regimes with or without FFB. It wasn't a big deal in the P-51 but in planes like the F-5 it was so bad that I could no longer dial in enough "up" trim to keep it level when heavy with drop tanks and weapons. I'd have to pull back on the stick through my entire flight until I got light enough that I could compensate for running out of trim range. And I wasn't able to use it at all in the Su-27 (etc) as it just threw the trim off too far. I assume you don't experience that with this stick? Could have just been my particular stick, I guess, but again, it would be nice if we had option settings to tweak and calibrate FFB in the sim. Oh and you were flying and operating it fine (other than never touching the trim wheels) except your MP was a bit high for continuous (but within limits for short usage). The engine limits are written on the placard on your right elbow cockpit wall. 46 MP/2700 RPM is what you want for continuous in the Mustang. And unless you're damaged or doing something odd, you don't need to mess with radiator flaps, etc. It's all automatic and works fine. (And all those flap positions are a feature. You can use the first one in combat at any speed. The successive flap settings can act like speed brakes to help you get slowed down to landing and full-flap speed quicker than you could without them.)
Oh, look, it's Mikey boy, the one with anger issues. The implementation in FFBeast doesn't solery rely on DirectInput FFB effects, it relies on DCS exported telemetry data and generates stick forces and effects from them.
@@theeltea I was afraid of that. Disappointing, it's the sim's job to determine that. I'll make sure to advise the 13,000+ members in my group against it. Thanks!
I don’t think there’s been many around to start with! But I suspect its popularity will sky rocket with people watching videos like this and taking the plunge. Atm not many know about this tech.
I mentioned regarding the trim at the beginning and showed it extensively in one of my previous videos. Yeah I don’t know exactly what the difference between this and the rhino is except this generates more torque.
When the elevator does not have air flow the stick should fall forward and this is not well simulated from what I saw in the video, it stays in the central position.
Most WWII fighters had counterweights to keep the flight surfaces balanced. Can't tell you if the Mustang did, but the Spitfire and BF109 did, for instance, so it seems likely the Mustang would too. The joystick wouldn't flop forward in that case.
@@ShaydeNZ All the airplanes I flew did not have any counterweight to balance the elevator. In general, the compensation is done in an aerodynamic way with a small surface of the elevator that is on the opposite side to the rest.
@@ToreDL87 No lamentablemente. Los aviones que vuelo son el piper pa11 el pa28 y el cessna 152. Pero te puedo asegurar que el mustang P51 no tiene ningun contrapeso en el timon de profundidad. Mira este video ua-cam.com/video/J1F_UJaaP1A/v-deo.html podras ver que el palo esta caido hacia adelante a pesar de que el motor esta en bajas revoluciones y no tiene ningun contrapeso que lo mantenga centrado. Por lo tanto esta mal simulado este aspecto. Es un detalle facil de corregir en el software.
900€ + shipping is just a ridiculous price tag for a stick even if it's FF. Back in the days I had a ff stick to play il2 and it was worth 120€. Sim is getting so elitist, anyway...
Honestly sounds like it would be great for beginners and those who are not naturals... But honestly my Retro fighter Gamecube gamepad is great and I would almost never use a stick like this like I don't use my belove saitex X52... Not to mention it's nearly $1k USD which is alot for something I won't use all that much.
I just got my first FFB joystick a Logitech wingman 3D pro from over ten years ago... And man is it awesome how it just melts and blend the sim into my hand... But yeah DCS MSFS and yes even War thunder need higher inputs even for the wingman and it was fussy to set up buut no more then any old joystick... But yeah I get FFB in a joystick now and honestly makes using a joystick worth it over pad for me.
@@CommandT your reviewing the stick but the picture in picture prevents us from seeing how the motors on the stick react to your inputs...lets put the FFB into view and the sim in the background...ps have you seen the new FFB Rhino that's about to release? Good stuff! Cheers!!
Still using my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 with one as backup until something, anything! that beats it and isn't extortionate...as per fkin usual 🙄
They are paying me nothing. I just want to spread the word about the technology as I’m excited about it myself, and I get good views and engagement on these videos so it’s a win-win.
Most of theses commenters are so full of shlt saying they are going to buy a thousand dollar gimbal but are the same commenters on dcs vids complaining about a 70 dollar module an maps
📌 ATTENTION: The Force Feedback Stick (FFBeast) is now available for pre-order! Find it here: ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joystick.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
🎥 Watch my other FFBeast Force Feedback stick videos:
Flying With a Force Feedback Stick in DCS is AMAZING | MiG-29A: ua-cam.com/video/os7p_JAkNwA/v-deo.html
Flying Helicopters with a Force Feedback Stick is AMAZING! | DCS Huey - FFBeast: ua-cam.com/video/jCVv6S5OrWI/v-deo.html
The ULTIMATE Helicopter Control Set Up in DCS!: ua-cam.com/video/Z07doswrWoY/v-deo.html
Dear Sir, many thanks for this superb video. Kind regards, Nick
dose it work with war thunder?
Oh yes a random page hosted on github without an imprint or any information who is behind it. Probably no electrical certification process either. Lovely way to either get it seized by customs or straight up ripped off when they miscalculate how much it actually costs to produce bespoke hardware.
Being big into sim racing and flight sims I always wondered why force feedback sticks weren’t more of a thing when no one would dream of having a wheel without feedback, obviously its easier to fly than to drive without it but seeing setups worth thousands of pounds without any feeling through the stick seems crazy
As opposed to a single peripheral (wheels usually bundled w/ pedals) a flight simulator "build" or parts list consists of A. Flight control stick, B. Usually a separate throttle investment, C. Followed by a good rudder pedal (toe brakes cost extra) D. Then the simulator E. and that dictates the performance of the pc. Take all that into consideration and calculate the avg life-span of your vehicles starter motor as opposed to window or wiper motor (you replace the starter more often is the point) and figure your FFB stick motor(s) may
They aren't a thing because up until 2021 there was a patent troll not allowing anyone to use the patent at all. Back in the early 2000s there was many FFB joysticks it wasn't until some random ass company patented it that they went away.
@@Datttsnake Oh really? That's actually crazy
@@hollohullu9448Microsoft sidewinder joystick was FFB. They were great.
@@hollohullu9448Simple capitalism example for ya
I don’t need it, I don’t need it… I NEEEEEED IT!!!
**decent touchdown Ill take it**
Dude you buttered that
Ha! Thanks!
Keep the stick in your lap when you start rolling to lock the tail gear (once its straight of course). That'll keep your takeoffs a little smoother, let it slide forward as you hit your t/o speed so the wheel lifts off the ground.
Surely you would apply nose down stick as you start rolling to get the tailwheel off the ground like in other tail daggers?
@@CommandT at about 90-100 mph yes, and then a real smooth pullback at 120 should have you up real quick like. Even if you're loaded with lots of fuel and explosives.
You keep the stick back at the start of the roll as there is generally insufficient aerodynamic forces generated by the rudder to maintain directional control, thus on the mustang it has a tailwheel lock that is active with the stick aft, then as the speed builds you centre the stick and that allows a few degrees of tail wheel movement, though at this point unless extremely heavy you can then go stick forward to get the tail up and level. In some aircraft there is a deadzone where there isn't enough airflow over the rudder to stop yaw but where there is also blanking from the elevator blocking said airflow to the rudder.@@CommandT
@@CommandT depends on how the aircraft is supposed to take off, some tail draggers are meant to take off in 3 wheel, others two wheel.
No... that's where the tail wheel lock is on the mustang. You also don't want to push the nose down as you risk a prop strike. You want the plane properly trimmed, hold back pressure to lock tail wheel till you are fast enough the rudder is effective, then center the stick. If done right the tail will take care of itself and the plane should fly without any real backpressure. @@CommandT
This is how planes like airbuses do it. They put what we call artificial feel on the sidesticks and rudder pedals. Deliberate resistance. It ensures proper intuitive feel when handling the flight controls. And it also helps prevent accidental jerking of the controls should your hand twitch or shift unexpectedly.
Airbus sidesticks don't have any force feedback or physical linking to flight control loads. They use springs and gas dampeners to achieve their resistance.
@@8710ify i think dave is meaning the actual planes
Back when European Air War was still a new game I used a force feedback stick. It was awesome. It really took some effort to move that thing when you got past 400 knots.
What about the helicopters? Like Gazelle, Apache or Hind? Does magnetic brake work? It would be a gamechanger.
Force trim works just fine in VPforce Rhino (also an FFB base) and it is why I can use trim now. Trim with non-ffb stick was a no go, I just ignored it completely and flew the stick at all times. FFB is great.
@@tomaszwota1465 Thx. And what about the trim in this FFBeast base?
Have a look at my previous vid for flying helicopters with this stick:
ua-cam.com/video/jCVv6S5OrWI/v-deo.htmlsi=p-SMdDp05G0GMnaZ
For me it was a big improvement to get the feedback through bass shakers to feel the stall. An ffb stick would improve the feel of the airplane even more. Love it!
Absolutely!
Would be nice if you could make a video about the software and setup side of things perhaps? I know that for a competitor stick the VPforce Rhino another user showed sort of what was needed to tune the settings and get the stick working, as well as a bit of a discussion of how the stick reduces power if the motors get too hot. Is this stick similarly limited temperature wise etc?
ive been an FFB convert since buying an old sidewinder years ago. Its a great little stick but obviously not nearly as precise or with as many buttons as the modern HOTAS sticks like warthog etc. Something like this or the VPforce with a proper HOTAS grip and full length seem very cool, even if fairly pricy.
I will do a video about the software side of it in the future for sure.
There’s zero heating issues here. Maybe because I’m using so little of what the motors are capable of since I have such a short stick extension.
@@CommandT Awesome. Nice to hear.
@@CommandT They won't get too hot even with generous settings and an extender. AFAIK, Roman has tuned current restrictions for optimal motor temperatures. Temperature monitoring has been suggested and on the wish list.
As a (somewhat) glider pilot, the Lack of FFB Sticks really annoys me. The haptic Response is crucial for Our sim Training and how to deal with crosswind and up- and downdrafts.
I really hope this gets more popular soon, top Tier video
100%!!!!
Trimming has been the biggest pain especially with my winwing full extension F18 with medium springs. This will be a game changer. Sent request for pre order!
Awesome!!!
This really makes me think of the stories of Mig15s compressing so hard at high speeds that pilots would bend their sticks trying to pull up! Would love to see how it is on this FFB Stick! :D
Oh yeah, indeed! I don’t have the MiG-15 but might give it a go at some point!
No sh*t it's incredible, they never shoulda stopped making them.
Don't let anyone grab the patent for another 20 years again.
forever patents are a crime against humanity
Vielen Dank für deinen interessant en und auch emotionalen Reisebericht,der uns auch durch die Drohnenaufnahme n die grandiose Landschaft Afrikas zeigt
I wonder how the buffet effect feels in modern jets? I just got a Winwing stick and love it but it does not have FF.
You get the vibrations of the buffet, and they get higher as you approach the max alpha. It’s super cool!
A "decent" landing!?. That was perfect
Ha. Thanks!
Would be great to see you flying some warbirds too, hopefully might make you want to do some more
That was the smoothest landing I have ever seen anyone do in the mustang. Ever. No way that’s your 6-7th landing. lol. Cmon.
I literally have less than 1h of flight time in total in that plane 😅 Only really flew it just to make the video
Very nice, however, very late P-51D-5s and later (earlier Mustangs that had fuselage fuel tank were retrofitted) had a twenty pound bob weight installed on the elevator mid fuselage bell-crank. This maintained a steady pull forward on the stick at all times the aircraft was level so if you had the stick in neutral or aft position while on the ground with engine off it would "fall" forward to the stop if you let go. This mod was done to counter the unstable aft CG condition when operating at gross weight with the fuselage fuel tank full. In this condition as the aircraft exceeded ~2 positive G the stick would progressively push back harder trying to increase the G load. I have heard that some current operators have reduced the bob weight to ~10 lbs.
Oh that’s interesting!! Unfortuntaly this sort of info has to come directly from DCS to accurately model FFB forces.
Thats SO AWESOME! Love it!! I didnt even know there were Sticks with FFB!
Yep! 😁
It has long amazed me how rare FFB is in flying. You can get el-cheapo sticks with it -- granted, not very good; but high-end stuff with FFB is hard to find and expensive AF. Yet in racing, FFB is considered essential and isn't all that expensive.
I am pleased to notice that there seems to be more activity in the FFB flying world; pedals too, which is important.
Absolute awesome! I also need a FFB joystick!
Yep!
@@CommandT I will build it, already build some Cockpit stuff, Pedals and so on, from Zero with Fusion360, 3d printer and CNC maschine. Huge respekt for the designer, this is above my Skill Level.
Biggest problem I see is metal work. No skills and No tools jet.
I still have a force feedback stick from 20 years ago
I imagine this would offer great feel while flying the F14 and the new to be released F4.
Yeah the F-4 should be epic for sure!
35 nm is the torque I have to apply to do up the oil sump bolt on my car. So that is pretty impressive for a force feedback device to deliver that much torque.
Yep! It’s crazy
Gawds! As a carnivore eater I am now eating just ground beef and saving my money for this stick! Looks amazing but I know that the real beauty of it cant be shown in a video as its just pure feel.
Yep exactly! 🙂
You eat carnivores? 🤔
@@RealTojo090 LOL yeah sure!
I dug up my Logitech 3D Force joystick that i stripped on day one for a custom shifter just to experience ffb but apparently it doesn't work in DCS :( Works fine in FSX though...
Oh that’s a shame!
$1600 excluding shipping for a ff gimbal is just to much for me to justify I'm sure its a great feeling in the hand .but my whole set up delivered didn't cost that much an i don't have the worst gear .. virpl warbird base winwing f 15e throttle an vkb pedals
Not even the best Virpil/Winwing/VKB bases compares to these new FFB bases coming out.
They're just as smooth and accurate, and delivers a whole new peripheral that non-FFB bases simply can't match what so ever.
Ok i get that the feed back is nice but as i stated the gimbal alone costs more then my whole set up an it cant be any more accurate to control, the game can only use so much resolution an hall sensors already saturate that limit@@ToreDL87
Where are you getting $1600 from? I am just curious
3:44 that's what she said
this is awesome and hopefully by the time i'm retired it will be affordable
I have the new Moza Base but i was just wondering if you get engine vibration from the P-47 because that is the only warbird that doesn't seem to have it for me.
I don’t have the P-47 so couldn’t tell you 😔
Is this just so happen to coincide with MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Patent expiring in 2022? That would be awesome
No yeah I can understand the feeling from non force feedback to force feedback. I had that with simulator steering wheels where i tought ''theres no way its that good'' I ended up getting one and know I cant ever go back xD.... except there is one slight diffrence one is 270 and the OTHER IS 1000 xD (how will i ever get that amount of money)
Just tried DCS for the first time today with a gamepad (lol yeah i know) ..im planning on buying a cheap HOTAS for now, do i need to have the pedals? are they mandatory or can i fly and do everything pretyy decently without it ? Thnks and that was a very clean landing cant wait to perform a "decent" landing like that haha
Not mandatory but advised but is more of a nice to have. Most sticks have a yaw function as rudder
If you can afford it, get at least some form of cheap rudder pedals and a throttle. It’ll be a lot better. But if your joystick has a twist grip you can use that for rudder. I’ve done so for many many years when I was a kid
@@CommandT thanks for the insight! For now I will go with joystick and throttle, any recommendations for a cheap joystick with that feature for the rudder part?
I honestly don't care about price... FFBeast is one of the first of its kind, having a universal attachment for most top-end flight sticks, and it being an amazing force feedback is just... The first of many realistic experiences to come.
Yep!
Any vibrations when you fire the 50s? P-51 fact for you and the others. The radiator cowling at "speed", produces 200 lbs of thrust. The Mustang makes time, money, speed, and here comes the Honeys.
Actually I don’t think there’s currently any effect to make the stick shake when firing a gun. I assume it might be an effect that will get added later on with a software update
0:24 I just call it the trainer Mustang because that is what I believe it is being un armed and having T in the name.
Back when I first started I had a Microsoft stick that had FFB while it was a cheesy stick it was still it was more fun because of the FFB I’ve had about 3 sticks since of much better quality but none had FFB . Just like you said why there aren’t more is a great question !
Because some marvelous company called Immersion Corp had the exclusive patent of Force Feedback on Joysticks, holding back any company that wanted to make one - so after Sidewinder 2 from Microsoft we didn't get any...
Microsoft was sued by Immersion btw because they stated the Sidewinder was a "Tactile feedback man-machine interface device", since they had already the patent at the time, it ended up Microsoft settling out and buying 10% of Immersion shares...
The company sued also Sony for the Dualshock controller for the same reason, but they didn't want to settle and Immersion won, getting paid 82million dollars
Since some years the patent has expired and finally anyone can make one, who knows maybe even Microsoft will come back at it
You should try the MiG-15 with this stick.
That could be pretty interesting. A nice mix between warbird and more modern jets.
I don’t have it but I’ll think about getting it
Mig 15, 19 and 21 are all amazing on DCS
whats with the aileron corrections for the ground roll its all rudder you start trying to fix it with ailerons and you will ground loop
Sim vid with a pilot in the cockpit = LIKE 🙂
🤜🤛
It definitely gets stiff at high speed! Giggity!
There is also openffboard joystick mode!
Superb video. :)
Is really impressive when you stall completely because the controles jump everywhere
Thanks. Seems like a must-have.
Damn! I don't see winwing compatibility... Also, I wonder how it would work with my Boeing seat setup?
Для полного удовольствия еще нужны педали FFBeast)
I have a VKB with fw190/bf109 knupplegriff + thrust lever, I dream of another Force Feedback stick since the Sidewinders days (which I still have working, stored in my closet)....
I'm really really really really tempted to build one since it's stated that is compatible with VKB products :o
Have a look on the FFBeast site - it states what it’s compatible with
Using rightly set of hardware and software with load cells can give close things. Kinda.
Very interesting - I'm scared to look at the price tag though!
Seems comparable with the stuff from Fanatec these days.
What have you got mapped to look around freely? You seem to do it very smoothly but I know you've mentioned you don't use VR right?
TrackIR
TrackIR
the website dosn't say what joystick it supports ?
It does - Thrustmaster, Virpil, VKB
I really just need someone to make a low-strength version of one of these that is just strong enough to hold in place an extended flight stick for helicopter trim. I just cant justify $1000 for proper helo trim. Maybe winwing will do something like that.
As planes are "fly by wire" systems there is regularly no force feedback on the steering. To be fully reliable there is some fake feedback on these. But generally its not wrong not to have feedback.
I think the concept is misunderstood. The point is not that it has feedback like driving a car with manual steering. It’s the fact that every plane has unique loading on the flight controls, irrespective of whether there is or is no feedback. And that’s what a force feedback stick gets you.
Do you know if this is as capable in IL-2 Great Battles?
Yep. Just check the FFBeast website - supported sims are in there
filled out pre order 4 month ago and still no answer :(
That’s strange, didn’t know they took pre-orders 4 months ago!
@@CommandT there is still the same form to make a pre order like it was November ?!
@@roman335i Why would the pre-order form be any different months later? If that's all they are taking now, the form shouldn't change. Unless your expecting no pre-order form and just a regular order form with shipping in a few days; but I suspect they are backlogged for anything like that.
@@marcusdamberger that's not the point
I filled this form several month ago an still have no answer
@@roman335i Indeed, maybe you can cancel and sign up with VPforce Rhino? Or keep both on pre-order and wait to see who's first, and cancel the other when your turn comes up. I thought I would have to wait way over a year; but the list kept getting smaller in front of me (others canceling) and I'm now less than a month away. It may not have the same Nm force but the reviews are positive and about 30-50 are being made each month. They also have kits you can build yourself with stronger components. It's really cool to see so many FFB devices hitting the market now.
i just love it 👍😍
do force feedback stick are making a come back ?
Yeah, potentially
hi! The stick is amazing. What country do you send it from. I meant outside Europe or no?
It’s shipped from Poland
Wow it is perfect, no taxes. I would like to buye that ffb base in the future. I have vkb base with 200 mm extension. How would be the price with vkb adapter?
that is awesome, can you do a test with the tomcat. if the info is available cuz that would be amazing. thanks
I’m afraid I don’t have the Tomcat 😞
@@CommandT ah man, dam I would love that. I wish I had my channel high up to be able to qualify for reviews cuz that would be amazing to test out. I remember back in the 90’s there was a force feedback joystick that I fell in love with and now seeing this one. I have to get it lol
Wicked vids , mic sound sounds tinnie. Needs some bass lol .
Thanks, yeah it’s the headset I use. I might upgrade to a more decent headset with a better mic 👍
how is this joystick in WarThunder?
No idea! I’m not sure FFB is supported in war thunder?
Want one just to be able to trim by feel.
Thanks yet again for another video about this stick. I was wondering, I also play Star Citizen with a flightstick, do you know how the FFBeast behave while playing such games (I mean games that don't provide datas for force feedbacks) ?
That I would have no idea about I’m afraid!
If star citizen has outputs you can map loadings to (like trim position and airspeed) you might be able to rig up something interesting.
I don’t know if this stick can model ‘bumps’ but weapons fire and hits might make a good mapping too if you can get event data from the game.
Shouldn't there be zero FFB as manoeuvring is not by control surfaces but by thrusters?
@@ColinDyckes I think it would be logical. I was wondering if the stick was then totally loose or if it will behave as a standard stick using string
How does it feel flying a fly by wire aircraft with this stick
It feels great. But FBW aircraft benefit far less than anything with hydraulically boosted or unassisted controls.
@@CommandToh and can this stick be used for other sims such as xplane and msfs
Came here to ask this. Or more like how does it feel to fly a fly by wire aircraft in real life, does it return to the center automatically? If it's all electronics, does it have some form of force feedback built in as well?
If only the other DCS warbirds had as good FFB implementations as the TF/P-51D does. It's the best by far and they seem to ignore it (at least to the point of not implementing it very well) on the newer ones. (I haven't been flying with my Logitech FFB for some time so perhaps that's changed, but I doubt it.)
Don't expect this in the jets. Any aircraft with hydraulically boosted controls won't let you feel the airspeed like this. And modern FBW jets even more so, as they're making trim changes for you. (Though FBW planes like the Hornet are designed to require greater stick movement, and thus greater stick spring forces to work against, as the G load increases.)
Speaking of trim changes, you made none in this video. You should have shown us you making major trim changes and the stick physically re-centering all by itself without your hand on it. (You can fly with trim only as long as you don't get too crazy.)
In the helicopters it was absolutely amazing. Turn off Force Trim and the stick is just floppy (which is a way a lot of real chopper pilots prefer to fly the Huey). And when you enable Force Trim (like with the cockpit switch in the Huey, I don't mean in the Options), and pick a new trim position, the stick just wants to stay at that new "center" and none of the fake nonsense we have to do with quickly recentering the stick after making a Force Trim change happens. With a FFB stick it works just as it does in reality. No need to rely on that fake "Trim Reset" function to get out of trouble if your trim gets out of whack because it's always obvious where your trim is set, just by feel.
You should also get a lot more difficult to move stick in the Huey if you disable the hydraulics, though with my FFB stick out of action I can't confirm that right now. Though there's still no meaningful flight forces communicated through the stick in helicopters. So, again, not nearly as informative when flying as what you'll get in the warbirds.
Unfortunately I found many DCS modules didn't "play well" with my Logitech FFB. It made me wish we had force biasing controls in the Options. Many of the aircraft, including the TF/P-51, would not trim normally for me with my Logitech, with dramatically different trim wheel positions for the same flight regimes with or without FFB. It wasn't a big deal in the P-51 but in planes like the F-5 it was so bad that I could no longer dial in enough "up" trim to keep it level when heavy with drop tanks and weapons. I'd have to pull back on the stick through my entire flight until I got light enough that I could compensate for running out of trim range. And I wasn't able to use it at all in the Su-27 (etc) as it just threw the trim off too far. I assume you don't experience that with this stick? Could have just been my particular stick, I guess, but again, it would be nice if we had option settings to tweak and calibrate FFB in the sim.
Oh and you were flying and operating it fine (other than never touching the trim wheels) except your MP was a bit high for continuous (but within limits for short usage). The engine limits are written on the placard on your right elbow cockpit wall. 46 MP/2700 RPM is what you want for continuous in the Mustang. And unless you're damaged or doing something odd, you don't need to mess with radiator flaps, etc. It's all automatic and works fine. (And all those flap positions are a feature. You can use the first one in combat at any speed. The successive flap settings can act like speed brakes to help you get slowed down to landing and full-flap speed quicker than you could without them.)
Oh, look, it's Mikey boy, the one with anger issues.
The implementation in FFBeast doesn't solery rely on DirectInput FFB effects, it relies on DCS exported telemetry data and generates stick forces and effects from them.
@@theeltea I was afraid of that. Disappointing, it's the sim's job to determine that. I'll make sure to advise the 13,000+ members in my group against it. Thanks!
@@AdmiralQuality You do that! Don't forget to take your pills, honey.
@@theeltea I don't take psychoactive meds, but thanks for the psychological projection, MiG-15.
using vr or track ir??
TrackIR
If you could do a comparison to the vpforce rhino, you would be doing a massive service to the flight sim community as there's no good vids.
True but unfortunately I can’t, not least because I’d be at the back of the queue to get a VPForce Rhino, and I don’t exactly need 2 sticks. Sorry 😔
90,s we had loads of ff flightsticks
Meanwhile, I'm using a sidestick with zero force feedback for that authentic Airbus experience lol
Haha!
i dont get why force feed back is not more popular with flight sim stuff
Right, I used to have a Microsoft Sidewinder FBB stick years ago and was surprised they stopped making them, it was pretty awesome.
I don’t think there’s been many around to start with! But I suspect its popularity will sky rocket with people watching videos like this and taking the plunge. Atm not many know about this tech.
@@CommandT Yeah man, I'm hoping you're right. I'd love for it to become a bit more affordable.
Yeah price is a bit out there for most.
@@tonyf9076 Yeah, especially my Wife, lol.
any good for helos?
Amazing.
ua-cam.com/video/jCVv6S5OrWI/v-deo.htmlsi=p-SMdDp05G0GMnaZ
Take my money!
I'm not shure it's better than the VP Force Rhino... You don't tell us about the trim
I mentioned regarding the trim at the beginning and showed it extensively in one of my previous videos.
Yeah I don’t know exactly what the difference between this and the rhino is except this generates more torque.
@@CommandT By bad sorry, thank you for your response
Would love to see helicopter with ffb
I have plenty of videos on the channel flying helicopters with FFb 🙂
@@CommandT yeah found them afterwards. It's such a cool device, but hard to pull the trigger on a 900 buck "toy" XD
When the elevator does not have air flow the stick should fall forward and this is not well simulated from what I saw in the video, it stays in the central position.
There’s propwash so it displaces somewhat back towards the centre but not fully.
Most WWII fighters had counterweights to keep the flight surfaces balanced. Can't tell you if the Mustang did, but the Spitfire and BF109 did, for instance, so it seems likely the Mustang would too. The joystick wouldn't flop forward in that case.
@@ShaydeNZ All the airplanes I flew did not have any counterweight to balance the elevator. In general, the compensation is done in an aerodynamic way with a small surface of the elevator that is on the opposite side to the rest.
@@martinalvarez827 Were all those airplanes a Mustang, 109 or Spit?
@@ToreDL87 No lamentablemente. Los aviones que vuelo son el piper pa11 el pa28 y el cessna 152. Pero te puedo asegurar que el mustang P51 no tiene ningun contrapeso en el timon de profundidad. Mira este video ua-cam.com/video/J1F_UJaaP1A/v-deo.html podras ver que el palo esta caido hacia adelante a pesar de que el motor esta en bajas revoluciones y no tiene ningun contrapeso que lo mantenga centrado. Por lo tanto esta mal simulado este aspecto. Es un detalle facil de corregir en el software.
That's obvious. What escapes most, however, is that FFB pedals are about as important for piston stuff.
Not really. Yaw is felt far more in your ass than through any type of pedal feedback.
Yeah would definitely be a great addition, I do agree!
patiently awaiting my email :)
how much
i think 900 bucks
900€ + shipping is just a ridiculous price tag for a stick even if it's FF.
Back in the days I had a ff stick to play il2 and it was worth 120€.
Sim is getting so elitist, anyway...
I’m not sure your €120 could generate the same sort of forces though??
@@CommandT may be but still, sim is becoming more and more elitist
@@flutter8712 Expensive, yes, though there are plenty of budget options outside of FFB. Elitist isn't the right word though.
Make one with modern jets.. I like the buffetinig.
I’ll show more of that!
@@CommandT Great.
Honestly sounds like it would be great for beginners and those who are not naturals... But honestly my Retro fighter Gamecube gamepad is great and I would almost never use a stick like this like I don't use my belove saitex X52... Not to mention it's nearly $1k USD which is alot for something I won't use all that much.
I just got my first FFB joystick a Logitech wingman 3D pro from over ten years ago... And man is it awesome how it just melts and blend the sim into my hand... But yeah DCS MSFS and yes even War thunder need higher inputs even for the wingman and it was fussy to set up buut no more then any old joystick... But yeah I get FFB in a joystick now and honestly makes using a joystick worth it over pad for me.
I also get quite stiff at high speed.
Haha
Next time, swap the pnp w stick as main sim as secondary Cheers!!
What?
@@CommandT your reviewing the stick but the picture in picture prevents us from seeing how the motors on the stick react to your inputs...lets put the FFB into view and the sim in the background...ps have you seen the new FFB Rhino that's about to release? Good stuff! Cheers!!
You might be able to make some money on OF playing with your stick like that.
Ha!
Thanks
I get incredibly stiff at high speed also.
Haha
I got one from Brunner 🇨🇭
BUFFETIIIIIING!
35Nm is crazy
Yeah it’s a fair amount
Show us a flat spin
Sounds like a good idea!
And that is why I hate, that Force Feedback is not a standard.
Still using my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 with one as backup until something, anything! that beats it and isn't extortionate...as per fkin usual 🙄
No safety e stop?! Seems extremely unsafe
Seems extremely fun
I believe that is being developed for the final version
I super badly want this but I can't afford 899 Euro, especially shipping as well. pricy pricy stuff!
Check out Bronner's ffb line up... This is peanuts in comparison
you can build it yourself, i am in the process of building my own VPForce Rhino FFB, the kit starts from $299
third vid flying with a FORCE FEEDBACK, how much r they paying u for this?
it makes sense. there hasnt been a great FFB for a long time, and it makes a world of difference
They are paying me nothing. I just want to spread the word about the technology as I’m excited about it myself, and I get good views and engagement on these videos so it’s a win-win.
Sure you get a free ffb stick 😊
@@CommandT I get you, great content btw.
Most of theses commenters are so full of shlt saying they are going to buy a thousand dollar gimbal but are the same commenters on dcs vids complaining about a 70 dollar module an maps
bad for rotors
100% the opposite. Watch my previous videos:
ua-cam.com/video/jCVv6S5OrWI/v-deo.htmlsi=p-SMdDp05G0GMnaZ