I see some people are having issues getting the latest version of Motion Assistant. Ciphray posted this link: `cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/802730777443958824/1060394406047400016/MotionAssistant_Setup_1155.msi` this link would also work, as you don't need to be signed into discord or have access to a server to use a discord file link
This is fantastics, not only for handhelds but also for gaming laptops. We need to get more visibility on this. I hope this things are more intuitive in the future
I love seeing all this software come to Windows now since the announcement of the Steam Deck. Low end/Low power systems were neglected when it comes to optimization and there was almost zero interest in it. Now I'm seeing everyone interested in trying to maximize optimization and use as little as possible to get the SAME performance you were getting before. We are living in the golden days I think when it comes to Ultrabooks/Handhelds. :)
I ordered one after seeing so many videos about how well this performs especially at 40 Hertz and the beautiful screen and the smaller form factor I think I get mine around March I'm so excited
Always happy to see a Phawx video pop up sice you know my man put a ton of research into it. Love to get the best out of my Win Max 2, would the same battery life improvements be present with 60hz 60fps gaming?
thanks to the engineering genius behind this application and this optimization/algorithm could potentially be patented but the creator decides to release it for free
Been using it for 2 days now. It's brilliant. Although sometimes there are stutters which make no sense when there's still TDP and clock speed to spare.
Awesome stuff ! Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. Looking forward to the next amd handheld after hearing was announced at CES. Maybe sony should get in on this a portable ps4 would be real nice.
Motion Assistant has been such a boon to the GPD experience. TDP config used to be somewhat of a nuisance, esp trying to teach other people how to do it. But even before the newest update it's made maximizing performance so much simpler and smoother. Whoever made it deserves a lot of praise.
Hi Phanx, Just started watching. Great videos. I have a Ayaneo 2 and GPD Win 4 ordered. In the past I have been a laptop junkie and looking forward to applying some of my laptop tricks for better battery life and less heat. One app i used was Ryzen Controller. Is it possible for you to try Ryzen Controller? I used it with a 5900HX laptop and it worked wonderfully. It controls TDP and max temperature.
Phawx, thank you for your awesome videos. For someone who already has a Steam Deck, what would you recommend they buy for the 6800U Part? The Win Max 2 or the Win 4? It seems like the Win Max 2 is more designed for people who are replacing aging laptops (like Kaby Lake or older, and GTX 980 and older laptops, etc?).
Win max 2 is great, its small irl and in fact its more portable then steam deck couse it dont need case and not so extremely wide. 10inch display is more sutable for pc games also + bigger battery
Performance wise, they are the same. It's very subjective with what you want to accomplish. If you already have a Steam Deck, I'm not sure I'd recommend either unless you weren't happy with the Steam Deck.
Makes my wonder why AMD isn't able to do this? It's always been known that the CPU/GPU boost far too aggressively hurting power consumption quite a bit, and it sucks we have to rely on third party tools to optimize it, but I appreciate so much the effort of those who develop such tools! This definitely is a better solution than manually setting clocks (though I'd love to be able to manually control voltage on CPU/GPU to really squeeze some efficiency, but that likely will never happen on AMD mobile chips).
I finally got mine today, and coming back to this video to use motion assistant, the 40hz is now a 45 hz, but it is the same version, so probably the screen changed?
It works based off the actual usage of the GPU, eventually could probably be expanded to CPU too. So if you set a framerate cap (or refresh rate with vsync) to 40, it should balance around that point automatically.
I think the reason why they choose 40 fps in these demos is that the screen of the GPD Win 4 can only run at 40fps or 60fps. Running the screen at 40 saves a little bit more of battery life.
Добрый день, подскажите кнопка select настраивается? Недавно приобрел данное устройство , кнопка select вообще не реагирует. Можно его использовать как открыть приложение motion assistant?
Awesome to get some more info on how to use this program, if you're ever feeling like it, I don't see any tutorials out there how to get gyros working on these devices using motion assistant
I'm finding my Win 4 throttles performance somewhat when on battery even with a max performance profile set up in windows. Do you have any advice for getting around that throttling?
I've bitten the bullet for several months with AMD APU Tuning Utility trying to trim down TDP on my 5800H+3060 gaming laptop (when there are regular power outages where I live and the iGPU is adequate for lighter games) but it ground my gears knowing I couldn't tweak power between the CPU and GPU. Please please please tell you're gonna experiment on this app with other APUs 😭😭😭
Gpd win 4 has fans always spinning in linux. Trying to figure out how to change it in linux. Is that even possible? I saw a tutorial on how to change it in bios but the smu options is gone on my machine. Racking my brain tbh
I remember playing around with these settings on my galaxy s3(i9300) back in 2013-2015. Good times, good battery life(5-6h sot), even with a small battery (2.1ah). Basically this is like changing governors on linux (as i'm lead to believe) - one is performance and the other is some kind of adaptive governor. Wonder if it's AMD drivers doing this, some AI chip or Windows getting this feature and AMD just using proper code.
OK I’ve tried to ask on Indiegogo. I’ve tried sending GPD an email and got no response so maybe somebody on here can help so I got one. I love this thing it’s sick but my question is is will the new bios update fix the issue where I try to turn it on and nothing happens you can either be asleep in this will happen or trying to turn it on the blue light will turn on, but the screen won’t.
Hey Phawx, no one else seems to answer this, if you to buy one 6800U with your own money will you buy gpd4 or ayn2? I really am liking gpd4 but idk how much worst the screen is compared to ayn2? Thank you
It depend what you prefer for size, price and features. If price is a big factor then forget the Ayaneo 2 since that one is the most expensive and has no special features. The AYN Loki is basically the same device for 300$ less.
Wouldn't this have issues with games with fluctuating demands (or even indoor vs outdoor in many games)? Can you test this and setting different clocks/power levels with other games (Witcher 3/PS4 ports)?
It will. This is a douchy technique he is showing off to make gpd look good. Rdna2 has massive performance issues with frame pacing and clock control- this device is going to be a nightmare with constant tinkering required to get much out of it. Gpd already use the chip in their Max2 which pretty much no one cared for other than collectors. This is just phawx doing his usual gpd boot licking
What would happen if you unselect Auto TDP but keep everything else the same like those optimized GPU options and manually set the TDP to like 20W. Would this improve performance compared to same 20W but running without GPU optimization on?
Hi I’m new to the pc and handheld pc community but I have questions about the win 4. I wanna know things like will it update to windows 12 cuz I heard that’s releasing soon. I also wish to know if it could play new games too liiike would it be able to play games that haven’t released yet like gta 6, could it play that I’m not looking for it to replace my pc or consoles but I’m looking at this little guy as if I’m replacing it for my gaming laptop cuz let’s be real the gpd win4 has alot of cool gimmicks and plenty of fun for that matter like come on you could bring the pc anywhere if you wanted oh and last but not least guys the big question and I mean this is a pretty big question like yes this determines wether I just decide to wait until they get there with this technology or just stick to my pc buuut here’s the question… Can the GPDwin4 run Battlefield 4? Like the lowest settings you can get with a greatest performance coming outta it and no I’m not talking about running it with a egpu like I’m talking on the train, 4G LTE module plugged in, with the boys absolutely blasting the enemy with ammunition? That is all thank you for coming to my Ted talk I may not reply but I’m hoping someone in the handheld pc gaming community can make a video and show to the world that playing battlefield is possible on the train without so much clonky and wired shit I have to carry with me for my gaming laptop
If I already have a Steam Deck with games downloaded onto some SD cards from steam OS, would I need to re-download the games if i used them? Also, the steam deck has some shader pre compilations that reduce stutters in games. Do we notice any kind of stutters in playing hardcore games on the fly from these compiling in real time?
I have an Odin Pro and got Windows 11 on it. I copied many of my PC's installed games to my Odin instead of redownloading them. As long as you put them in the right folder and then have Steam install the game it should detect the files and do a validation. If anything is missing it will download just those files.
I wish Motion Assistant wasn't flagged VirusTotal (even if false positive). Does MA work for the Intel based WinMax or is QuickCPU still state of the art?
I would buy one if there were 4 buttons on the back. I do not have fingers on my left hand, only a thumb after an accident, so L1 L2 need to be on the back of the right side... I am not the only gamer with missing or non functioning digits that need these rear buttons.
The baseline comparison for these handheld is often the Steam Deck. The GPD 4 is a bit more powerful than the Deck. Has a slightly better battery as well. Is quite smaller. Has a better screen and has a physical keyboard. I would say if that's what you want then the price difference between the Deck and GPD is quite reasonable. Now compare the Ayaneo 2 that cost 1000$ and has basically none of the special features that the GPD has... that one is not worth the money.
Ok, the GPD win 5 needs a back touch (like the vita), there needs to be a second screen under the first instead of a keyboard, and there should be a stylus. Then it will be hardware ready for perfect DS, 3DS and Vita emulation.
That's a lot of hardware for some very specific stuff. Not that many Vita games use the back touch panel in any special ways. Tearaway used it well but for the rest it's mostly L2 and R2 replacement. As for the second screen, I wouldn't go that way but I think it would be pretty useful if the screen could somehow flip in vertical orientation. You can slide it up for keyboard but imagine lifting it outward and rotating it 90 degrees. That would be good for DS/3DS as well as arcade games that had vertical screens.
Why do all this if Nvidia chill does exactly all this???? Set minimum and max frame rate to monitor refresh rate or 2-3 less if you have a vrr monitor. Nvidia chill dynamically reduces and increases the cpu and gpu power to hit the chosen fps
I see some people are having issues getting the latest version of Motion Assistant. Ciphray posted this link: `cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/802730777443958824/1060394406047400016/MotionAssistant_Setup_1155.msi`
this link would also work, as you don't need to be signed into discord or have access to a server to use a discord file link
thanx for the link. only works when im logged into discord though.
need to remove %60 at the end of the link
@@ThomasSerruques this worked. Thanks
Link just showing as blank
@@jambothebairn remove ' after *.msi and your antivirus/browser setting may blocked download execute file
This is fantastics, not only for handhelds but also for gaming laptops. We need to get more visibility on this. I hope this things are more intuitive in the future
The win 4 is so pretty
no u
I feel like I'd need +5 reading glasses to run this on that screen though
@@DanielKennedyaeos I will say it’s not that difficult to get used to (but I’m heavily nearsighted)
Thanks for the video.
I did not expect Motion Assistant to have come such a long way.
I definitely need to try this out.
I love seeing all this software come to Windows now since the announcement of the Steam Deck. Low end/Low power systems were neglected when it comes to optimization and there was almost zero interest in it. Now I'm seeing everyone interested in trying to maximize optimization and use as little as possible to get the SAME performance you were getting before. We are living in the golden days I think when it comes to Ultrabooks/Handhelds. :)
absolutely true
I agree with most of that, but let's be real. This handheld is far from low end.
Tks for the awesome vid, as always! I will now go update my MotionAssistant software... and eat that cake! 🤗
I ordered one after seeing so many videos about how well this performs especially at 40 Hertz and the beautiful screen and the smaller form factor I think I get mine around March I'm so excited
Always happy to see a Phawx video pop up sice you know my man put a ton of research into it. Love to get the best out of my Win Max 2, would the same battery life improvements be present with 60hz 60fps gaming?
I like the video very informative!! Keep up the good work! 👍 The GPD Win 4 Looks Awesome!! Can't wait til March 2023!!
thanks to the engineering genius behind this application and this optimization/algorithm could potentially be patented but the creator decides to release it for free
Agreed. Who made it? I didn't even realize to ask as it just came pre installed.
Frank
Just got my win 4 this weekend. This video was super helpful
Been using it for 2 days now. It's brilliant. Although sometimes there are stutters which make no sense when there's still TDP and clock speed to spare.
Thank you so much for this the performance and battery is greatly improved
Awesome stuff ! Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. Looking forward to the next amd handheld after hearing was announced at CES. Maybe sony should get in on this a portable ps4 would be real nice.
Will you show how to over clock and make the ayaneo 2?
Cant wait to see what’s the program being worked on , sounds like a really good fit for these handhelds
Motion Assistant has been such a boon to the GPD experience. TDP config used to be somewhat of a nuisance, esp trying to teach other people how to do it.
But even before the newest update it's made maximizing performance so much simpler and smoother. Whoever made it deserves a lot of praise.
chinese engineers are cooking good
Hi Phanx, Just started watching. Great videos. I have a Ayaneo 2 and GPD Win 4 ordered. In the past I have been a laptop junkie and looking forward to applying some of my laptop tricks for better battery life and less heat. One app i used was Ryzen Controller.
Is it possible for you to try Ryzen Controller? I used it with a 5900HX laptop and it worked wonderfully. It controls TDP and max temperature.
Just curious why you need both or are you swapping your Aya Neo 2?
@@TRX25EX I wanted to try both. I will sell one of the two.
@@mikejhart214 ah ok makes sense then
Hmm not sure wich one better...
I know he uses RyzenAdj in his Linux videos for TDP/temp, not sure about in Windows though
Great video as always. Thanks Phawx.
What an idiotic thing Microsoft has done with centering the taskbar icons even when there’s no content or widgets active on the left.
These settings are working great on my Max 2.
Do you have like a discord? For handhelds
Very informative info and video.
Thanks for the tips😊
Thanks for your efforts
Great video I just got a GPD win 4 7840u. Does video and the settings still apply?
Would love a user friendly GUI to set this to certain games..
There are still invites left for the first discord code for those who are determined
Phawx, thank you for your awesome videos.
For someone who already has a Steam Deck, what would you recommend they buy for the 6800U Part? The Win Max 2 or the Win 4? It seems like the Win Max 2 is more designed for people who are replacing aging laptops (like Kaby Lake or older, and GTX 980 and older laptops, etc?).
Similar situation. Will hold out for newer gen amd chips
Win max 2 is great, its small irl and in fact its more portable then steam deck couse it dont need case and not so extremely wide. 10inch display is more sutable for pc games also + bigger battery
Performance wise, they are the same. It's very subjective with what you want to accomplish. If you already have a Steam Deck, I'm not sure I'd recommend either unless you weren't happy with the Steam Deck.
Makes my wonder why AMD isn't able to do this?
It's always been known that the CPU/GPU boost far too aggressively hurting power consumption quite a bit, and it sucks we have to rely on third party tools to optimize it, but I appreciate so much the effort of those who develop such tools! This definitely is a better solution than manually setting clocks (though I'd love to be able to manually control voltage on CPU/GPU to really squeeze some efficiency, but that likely will never happen on AMD mobile chips).
because AMD isn't making gpu for thoses handled, they make gpu so you can occasionally play games on your non gaming laptop.
@thephawx is this better than handheld control panel?
Really wish gdp would give us a prettier tdp tool... similar to what ayaneo has 🙂
Do you like the win4 or winmax2 better? Im eager to know. Thank you for your great video. Following you for a long time
Does this just make the changes and you close it or does it have to run in the background?
I finally got mine today, and coming back to this video to use motion assistant, the 40hz is now a 45 hz, but it is the same version, so probably the screen changed?
Will this really harshly effect emulation or can you live with it (something like wii u emulation)
Question. Should we set everything in motion assistant to what you have to get the results you're showing here? Sorry I don't knowich about computers
good day, may I ask, if how do you disable trigger button lightning?
Are you ment to have motion assistants running when you play games ??
What was with the discord link in the video?
Should I turn the CPU boost on if I want the max juice out of the CPU?
Does this thing work with 45/50 FPS? I don't mind a little frame stutter in exchange for a tighter balance between fluidity and power savings.
I can't see a reason it should not.
It works based off the actual usage of the GPU, eventually could probably be expanded to CPU too. So if you set a framerate cap (or refresh rate with vsync) to 40, it should balance around that point automatically.
I think the reason why they choose 40 fps in these demos is that the screen of the GPD Win 4 can only run at 40fps or 60fps. Running the screen at 40 saves a little bit more of battery life.
It can go 75-60-40
@@artlew6547 it's worth noting the 75Hz is limited to 1080p
Drinking game. Everytime you hear "secret sauce" have a shot.
Добрый день, подскажите кнопка select настраивается? Недавно приобрел данное устройство , кнопка select вообще не реагирует. Можно его использовать как открыть приложение motion assistant?
is using this better then vulken? or do they do different things?
What settings would you use for Emulation on the 2023 GPD Win Mini, Mostly Emulation, Every Blue Moon a PC Game
What's the expected battery life on 28 watts or 15 watts
Do you have any suggestions for portable battery and case for the coming win4 next month , I really don't like the case they offer is ugly ,,,😞
Should we use motion assistant together with ciphray's power control program? Or does motion assistant do all on it's own?
Motion Assistant has it's own TDP control settings.
Awesome to get some more info on how to use this program, if you're ever feeling like it, I don't see any tutorials out there how to get gyros working on these devices using motion assistant
What device is on the top left corner?
will this also work with ayanero 2 or onexplayer mini pro?
Would this only work for the Win 4 or would folks be able to do this with an Aya device or OXP?
I'm finding my Win 4 throttles performance somewhat when on battery even with a max performance profile set up in windows. Do you have any advice for getting around that throttling?
I've bitten the bullet for several months with AMD APU Tuning Utility trying to trim down TDP on my 5800H+3060 gaming laptop (when there are regular power outages where I live and the iGPU is adequate for lighter games) but it ground my gears knowing I couldn't tweak power between the CPU and GPU. Please please please tell you're gonna experiment on this app with other APUs 😭😭😭
So it will work on other pc handheld? Like ayaneo onexplayer??
For some reason I can't run Motion Assistant? It won't launch. Any idea?
can we just set fps cap in-game to 40fps? do we need to really cap the refresh rate?
what about the prefomance in ps2 emulation ?
Gpd win 4 has fans always spinning in linux. Trying to figure out how to change it in linux. Is that even possible? I saw a tutorial on how to change it in bios but the smu options is gone on my machine. Racking my brain tbh
Can we use this on the ayaneo 2 as well?
I am curious as well.
I remember playing around with these settings on my galaxy s3(i9300) back in 2013-2015. Good times, good battery life(5-6h sot), even with a small battery (2.1ah).
Basically this is like changing governors on linux (as i'm lead to believe) - one is performance and the other is some kind of adaptive governor.
Wonder if it's AMD drivers doing this, some AI chip or Windows getting this feature and AMD just using proper code.
hope this could get incorporated on ciphrays bat tools
OK I’ve tried to ask on Indiegogo. I’ve tried sending GPD an email and got no response so maybe somebody on here can help so I got one. I love this thing it’s sick but my question is is will the new bios update fix the issue where I try to turn it on and nothing happens you can either be asleep in this will happen or trying to turn it on the blue light will turn on, but the screen won’t.
My gpd win 4 2023 is throttling above 23w with cpu temp reaching 99.9c..any help?
Wow the link to the discord already expired! :-(
Hey Phawx, no one else seems to answer this, if you to buy one 6800U with your own money will you buy gpd4 or ayn2? I really am liking gpd4 but idk how much worst the screen is compared to ayn2? Thank you
It's a higher quality screen but it's smaller. Take your pick.
pls make a tutoral abput gyro cant use gyro on apex legends
Which X86 system should I buy? GPD Win 4, One x play, aya neo

It depend what you prefer for size, price and features. If price is a big factor then forget the Ayaneo 2 since that one is the most expensive and has no special features. The AYN Loki is basically the same device for 300$ less.
how did you get it?
Hi Phawx, my version of motion assistant has not float option, just down, normal, uup
Make sure you get the latest version
Somehow that link is giving me motionassistant v1.1.2 and not that version you have
Wouldn't this have issues with games with fluctuating demands (or even indoor vs outdoor in many games)?
Can you test this and setting different clocks/power levels with other games (Witcher 3/PS4 ports)?
It will. This is a douchy technique he is showing off to make gpd look good. Rdna2 has massive performance issues with frame pacing and clock control- this device is going to be a nightmare with constant tinkering required to get much out of it. Gpd already use the chip in their Max2 which pretty much no one cared for other than collectors. This is just phawx doing his usual gpd boot licking
@@diesel_dogg It'll work on AYANEO2 or OXP as well.
What would happen if you unselect Auto TDP but keep everything else the same like those optimized GPU options and manually set the TDP to like 20W. Would this improve performance compared to same 20W but running without GPU optimization on?
where did you get the 1.1.55 version? It is not on GPDs site
If you're on the GPD discord, it's pinned in the Win Max 2 channel. I think it's an early release which is why it hasn't been uploaded yet.
QR code unfortunately didn't work for me
Would this work for the asus rog ally?
Do you think this would work on the Win600? 🤔
Perhaps it would work on the AMD version, if there's one
Sell the junk that is Win600
$799 on indiegogo, that's about rm3.5k in Malaysia, I can also get a steam deck for rm2k or aokzoe for rm4k... Choices...
Can MotionAssistant be used on the AyaNeo 2?
Yep
can we have that for normal pcs as well? cpu + gpu :D
Is there a tool like this but for the ayaneo 2???
Hi I’m new to the pc and handheld pc community but I have questions about the win 4. I wanna know things like will it update to windows 12 cuz I heard that’s releasing soon. I also wish to know if it could play new games too liiike would it be able to play games that haven’t released yet like gta 6, could it play that I’m not looking for it to replace my pc or consoles but I’m looking at this little guy as if I’m replacing it for my gaming laptop cuz let’s be real the gpd win4 has alot of cool gimmicks and plenty of fun for that matter like come on you could bring the pc anywhere if you wanted oh and last but not least guys the big question and I mean this is a pretty big question like yes this determines wether I just decide to wait until they get there with this technology or just stick to my pc buuut here’s the question… Can the GPDwin4 run Battlefield 4? Like the lowest settings you can get with a greatest performance coming outta it and no I’m not talking about running it with a egpu like I’m talking on the train, 4G LTE module plugged in, with the boys absolutely blasting the enemy with ammunition? That is all thank you for coming to my Ted talk I may not reply but I’m hoping someone in the handheld pc gaming community can make a video and show to the world that playing battlefield is possible on the train without so much clonky and wired shit I have to carry with me for my gaming laptop
Does this work on Ayaneo 2?
Can you set max cpu frequency lower than 2700?
That is great [is there something like it on steamdeck (even if it was windows) thx for helping the portable pc community by the way]
Dang, missed the invite again.
on site no have motion assist 1.1.5
would this work on a steamdeck with windows?
Not specifically as VanGogh doesn't support changing gpu clock via ryzenadj. You can alter power GPU limit tho
doesn't work, the GPD website only provide ver 1.1.2
I thought I was going crazy. I have the same thing, version 1.1.2.
Харламов, это ты ?
If I already have a Steam Deck with games downloaded onto some SD cards from steam OS, would I need to re-download the games if i used them?
Also, the steam deck has some shader pre compilations that reduce stutters in games. Do we notice any kind of stutters in playing hardcore games on the fly from these compiling in real time?
I have an Odin Pro and got Windows 11 on it. I copied many of my PC's installed games to my Odin instead of redownloading them. As long as you put them in the right folder and then have Steam install the game it should detect the files and do a validation. If anything is missing it will download just those files.
cant find motion assistant 1.1.5 in english only 1.1.2 chinese
I wish Motion Assistant wasn't flagged VirusTotal (even if false positive).
Does MA work for the Intel based WinMax or is QuickCPU still state of the art?
I would buy one if there were 4 buttons on the back. I do not have fingers on my left hand, only a thumb after an accident, so L1 L2 need to be on the back of the right side... I am not the only gamer with missing or non functioning digits that need these rear buttons.
Is the GPD Win 4 worth the money?
The baseline comparison for these handheld is often the Steam Deck. The GPD 4 is a bit more powerful than the Deck. Has a slightly better battery as well. Is quite smaller. Has a better screen and has a physical keyboard. I would say if that's what you want then the price difference between the Deck and GPD is quite reasonable. Now compare the Ayaneo 2 that cost 1000$ and has basically none of the special features that the GPD has... that one is not worth the money.
Ok, the GPD win 5 needs a back touch (like the vita), there needs to be a second screen under the first instead of a keyboard, and there should be a stylus. Then it will be hardware ready for perfect DS, 3DS and Vita emulation.
That's a lot of hardware for some very specific stuff. Not that many Vita games use the back touch panel in any special ways. Tearaway used it well but for the rest it's mostly L2 and R2 replacement. As for the second screen, I wouldn't go that way but I think it would be pretty useful if the screen could somehow flip in vertical orientation. You can slide it up for keyboard but imagine lifting it outward and rotating it 90 degrees. That would be good for DS/3DS as well as arcade games that had vertical screens.
they should really publish the app in microsoft app store
Why do all this if Nvidia chill does exactly all this????
Set minimum and max frame rate to monitor refresh rate or 2-3 less if you have a vrr monitor.
Nvidia chill dynamically reduces and increases the cpu and gpu power to hit the chosen fps
Pretty sure that's just for gpus.
@ 23w I get 60fps on COD MW2 easy