Thompson Grinder Restoration: Precision Leveling the Machine & Bed Inspection with a KingWay Tool
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Thompson Grinder Restoration: Precision Leveling the Machine & Bed Inspection with a KingWay Tool
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Looking good Keith...I need to drop the weight too. Knees, back and more can't take it much more. I haven't seen below 200lbs in nearly 40 years...then again for about 15 of those I was built like a brick wall and worked out all the time. Desk jobs are no good for the waistline for sure. Now I'm retired and still not active nearly enough.
Good job on the leveling. I still have nightmares of leveling bases for a big machining line I assisted in building. Each base had 8 2-1/2" bolts. What a freaking NIGHTMARE. Took a team of 8 people 2 weeks to level all 30 bases...
Keith is a kind and generous teacher.
The neat thing about the scraping videos (or the odds and ends, or any of the videos) is that watching them is both free and optional.
These videos rivet me like a good book. Nice to learn more, too.
Hi Keith. To my mind, this was one of your most enjoyable ever videos to watch. I really enjoyed the description of each step as you came to it. Brilliant video, thanks. More like his please.
A light film of oil will level that right up. Nice machine. Thanks Keith.
I'm excited to see the scraping process!
Love it! I'm restoring a 1956 Do-All D-8 right now. It had a 28 thousandths bow :-( but otherwise just worn, not beaten up. Jealous of your machine's condition!
If you have a manual specific to that machine, I'd like to get a copy. Anything online is for a much newer one.
Mine was supposed to have been "re-scraped some 30 years ago, and used little since then." I bought it for basically scrap price plus the road trip (KC area - Tulsa) to fetch it. We pulled the table and main motor to get the weight down for loading, and I was quite pleased with what I seen. Replace the pump motor, chase leaks in the hydraulics, a few wiring puzzles to solve (making sure controls were off of the wild leg of the converter), and it's usable. Haven't tried to grind the chuck in yet ... not going to open that can until I have too!
@infoanorexic I've been asking around for a manual, too. All I've got is one for the G series. I'll share a copy if I find one. Let me know if you track one down.
My story is similar. $400 for the machine, just needed new hydraulic lines and cleaning. I disconnected all the wiring and put on 3 VFDs. Bed was rusty, but I've got that almost completely ground flat. I should have taken video, it's a super cool project.
Thanks for sharing Keith
I love your videos. My eyesight is failing but your lighting and camera work are exemplary.. The voice over helps me and no doubt others to understand what's going on and thankfully no loud music the sound of the machine tools working is music in itself. Smiled when you admitted to being a need. As a contributor in Yorkshire (UK) says in his videos, "I'm not building space craft"!
Good luck with the next millionth.
My life experience suggests you'll be moving this machine within the week...
Also: If we weren't nerds ourselves, would we even be watching this episode? Scrape on!
He needed it leveled to get the straightness measurements. He's got those now, so even if he does move it again, that would only require a re-leveling, which is not a whole lot of work.
Waw that thing is pretty much within spec 👍. And yes leveling is best done with 2 or 3 people. Looking forward to the scraping, I’m also a nerd 😁
Something I'd like to mention as I didnt see it in the video, when you initially leveled the machine it looks as though you only placed the level in the middle of the bed. By leveling only in one spot on the bed and not checking at least the ends and middle you could have put a twist, belly, or bow into the bed without knowing it. This will make you readings with the way level inaccurate. You may have checked the machine initially in multiple spots, however I did not see it on camera. Great content as always.
He does many things off camera. He's been doing machine leveling and calibration for decades, I'd give him a bit of credit in knowing how it needs to be done.
Good point, the Kingsway tool might be influenced by this...
I’m one who enjoys the entire show. Good on yuh.👍👍
Great video Keith 👍
A trick I learned as an apprentice over fifty years ago, used a Jack centred on the side opposite the two screws being adjusted.
That gave the effect of ‘three-point-levelling’ on machines with four feet.
Then, when that axis was right, move the Jack to the next axis mid-point, and repeat ( or sometimes just ease the jacking screws down on the first jacking side to ‘take the weight’.
Worked well on stiff machines…. and subject of course to being able to get a Jack under the machine ( you Jack).
I love that you go ‘the full nine yards’ on these rebuilds…
Regards
Robert
Errrrr…. ‘toe’ jack 🤪
Fascinating! Great camera work with the levels, really easy to see.
I think its close enough!😮
Thanks Keith. I appreciate your work and the amount of detail you put into your videos. If you check the level of your grinder every season it will probably be different. Most concrete slabs built on clay soils move with the various weather conditions especially after heavy rain. P.S. I was hoping to see your precision level in action.
Nice work on the leveling.
Nice to have help with this Keith.
I have done the up and down leveling and it can be a challenge for sure.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a great day.
My dad used to sell grinding machines. He would have been thrilled to see this video.
I do like watching your scraping videos, FYI. You provide a lot of good insight into why/when you scrape and how it affects the machine. It is very helpful to me to improve my learning.
Nice job Keith on the leveling. It makes a big difference in precision work if the machine tool is precisely leveled.
I was thinking about changes in the super-accurate level and wondering if it would change as you drive a forklift nearby, or even the floor jack or your mobile crane. Just as I formed the mental question, you explained that just walking by can make the bubble move, and you told about the scraping class. Yup - question answered!! Thanks Keith.
I bet machine shops in California go through hell after an earthquake.
I knew a man that worked in a machine shop next to a railroad. Passing trains would throw off the surface grinders enough to show up in the work.
I'm amazed that I haven't heard the cussing clear across the state, honestly.
Lol! Never even thought of that.... That is what apprentices are for maybe?
I have to admit, I had to stand close to the TV screen for this one to get a good view of the movement while being adjusted.
I appreciate that work it's amazes me
One nerd to another, great video, and looking forward to the scraping!
I was built in '63, can you restore me back to spec...? 🤔😎👍 Great video, as always, Keith!! 👏👏👏
I think the inspection process and scraping is great content to watch, and learn no matter how many times you show it. All that being said I'm sure your UA-cam algorithm doesn't show how much I like watching it haha😅
Yes Keith the I have seen Hydro-Generators be leveled and the thrust bearings scraped. Festinating. Thanks for the video
FANTASTIC,
Keith . I have leveled many of CNC machines large ones with 18" crescent and cheater pipe . One day I got tired of doing it with crescent wrench. The machines level bolts where 30 mm so I went and bought a 30mm axel socket and cut it down and made it into two sockets and for my 1/2 proto ratchet . Then when are shop moved again I went and bought a gear wrenche 30 mm . And had Craftsman 30mm as well and railroad jack to get then close then lower the feet ..
I like scraping 🤷
Shout out to Keith H for coming doing and helping get them machine leveled! 👍👍
😀
Thanks for sharing
Keith, you look great👍
Beautifull machine great find enjoy love your channel
23:39 - my Thompson 2F was the same way. I stripped, cleaned, fixed stuff and painted it. When I did the 5 block test (after grinding the chuck) the deviation was less than 0.0001". The cross feed ways (the ones the spindle rides on) are pretty worn so I'm going to touch them up. I was kind of hoping you'd have to scrape those so I could see how you did it. :)
Great, love to see more info on the Kingway.
now we know why Keith doesn't have much hair he's been pulling them out and measuring them
Nice machine, must have well cared for.
I have used a mirror, at 45 degrees over a crucible a couple of times so I can see directly down into it. Camera is aimed at the mirror. That might help if you want the camera to see directly down at the level.
as a guy who levels a lot of machines, i have a digi-pas bluetooth level and a creeper, i can level a machine in a few minutes and never have to get up. most of my machine i do 3 point leveling, level the long front axis then bring the back in, then balance the remaining feet
Nice work, as usual!
i love learn how to scrap a machine in
Great news. Thanks for sharing. Kimber
Funny that Keith has so much to say about human hair!🙂
Thank you for sharing.👍
My boss got a lathe that went into storage in a barn. I really strest how much it was to store it further MAKE SURE IT was level in 3 axis. Of course re didn't mind my words and 3 years later when he wanted to use it it was all over the place. After some created tiger torch use and a bout a month of sitting there it was put back into service it turned the nicest tapers over 6 feet. It still sits there working likeit had come from a ship.
Wait, who doesn't love scraping?
Inking and scraping ways is great! Lets check the mating surface ( the table) now.
Impressive!
Great video Keith one again.
Thanks for sharing 👍
WOW, GOOD JOB.
Someone please answer my question. I have never leveled a machine; however, I have leveled transits and levels for highway construction for 45+ years and I can't see any difference when the instrument has 4 leveling screws. For my career, I was taught to always level an instrument diagonally, and turn 90 degrees and level the opposite screws. For three point leveling, level toward one leg and the level across the remaining two. Also makes for quick leveling. It also makes for quick leveling. This method also keeps a very similar load on each leveling screw. Hope this makes sense. Can a machine not be leveled in the same manner? Thanks.
Not a pro, but my instinct tells me if the machine is a perfectly solid structure, then 3 points are enough. But a big and long machine is not perfectly solid, and can have twists and sags that might not be able to be removed with just 3 points. I've seen a lot of 15 foot lathes that sagged in the middle and needed to be raised at particular points.
Great news !!!
cool
Happy Friday Keith 😊
the out of toleramce condition is such that it is better off left alone, it is less than seasonally induced variations anyway. fire it up and put it to work.
I was taught that you orient surface grinders at 45 degrees to the wall in case the wheel shatters or it ejects a part.
What a lucky guy.
will it need to be re-leveled after the hydraulic fluid is added ?
Good point- 60 gallons of oil plus coolant- maybe another 400-500 pounds? Of course that should be pretty much be spread evenly over the machine footprint.
Yes, and when the table is installed and ground in...
It would be good to put some ‘nano oil’ on the precision ground surfaces. It contains tiny metal balls 0.09 microns diameter that fill any tiny cracks and act as ball bearings. Expensive but worth every penny. It’s available in different viscosities too.
You know of any videos of that product?
13:33 uhm… “don’t do nothing“, that’s a fun statement!😂
Given how little wear is on the machine after sixty some years, is scraping ‘to reduce wear’ really justified? How long are you planning on sticking around?😀
Interesting point. Some of us are hard wired to get it as good as humanly possible with the tools that we have.
I think his OCD is kicking in...
Made right in America. Built to last when we built things to last.
😂 now we know why Keith doesn’t have much hair left on his head. He’s leveled a bunch of machines with that all way level!!
I have a question: I have passed over many machinist levels at swap meets because I wasn’t sure they would be calibrated properly. I have seen that they have adjustment screws on each end of the vial - presumably for calibration - but against what standard? How would I test and/or adjust the level to ensure accuracy?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
Low wear means lots of clean oil circulating. Ron W4BIN
Wondering, is the way it is sitting on the shop floor according to factory specifications to support the accuracy you are trying to achieve?
Also wondering on the condition of the spindle?
Keep up the good work!
JIM 🎉
I remember being told that I had a great-uncle that worked at Tumico and he made Precision Instruments as a kid I always thought Precision Instruments ment dulcimers and violins etc etc
My Thompson grinds flat within .0002” no trouble
Keith,
Ive been doing this for a LONG time ( like 45 yrs ) the OLD adage of dont f with it if it aint broke most surely applies here, that is unless you are making parts for the space shuttle. Just to mess w things for the sake of messing w things just because you can....is only inviting disaster. I admire your ethic, but enough is enough....concentrate on something that NEEDS fixing and improvement.....you sir are lucky and have a GREAT machine dont do something you'll regret and go tooooo far and muck it up as they say down under......JUST SAYING !!!!!!
Don
Exactly!
I suppose the lack of wear isn't all that suprising. It's not like a lathe or milling machine that is making .200" cuts. Surface grinding is only a few thou at a time, so the forces on the table and the ways are far less.
the lengthwise variations are cumulative.
Keith Rucker ~ I AM THE SAME KIND OF, SPLIT A NAT'S ASS HAIR ~ LOVE IT ~~~
Hi Keith, could you explain the procedure to re-align threads with the lathe cutting tool. I had to remove a partially threaded 1/2 -10 acme rod before I finished cutting the threads.
What holds the leveling feet secure after everything is level ?
Really Keith, when was the last time you split tenths in your little hobby shop?
I guess I'm a nerd too. I'd be scraping it in too. I can see how that level would make you pull your hair out!
I like watching some scraping. An hour worth, probably not.
Keith are there not upper ways for the spindle? How would you evaluate them?
Does the grinding head travel on ways as well? Will you inspect it also?
And the table will further average these tiny differences. I know you must scrape it however :)
😊😊😊😊😊😊
Stupid question guy here - Why do we need to so accurately level this machine? I would think that if one end was a little higher than the other end it wouldn't make much of a difference. I'm supposing that maybe it is to get out any twisting of the ways. What say you? Thanks.
He mentioned that gravity can pull the table down a hair if it is moved to a far end, especially if the workpieces is very heavy. It's not a lot, but the whole point of this machine is to create as perfect as possible surfaces in other parts and machines, so this is often the 'ground zero' of subsequent precision operations. He also mentioned he's a 'nerd', which is kinda saying he has a bit of OCD.
@@kindabluejazz Thanks for the response. Some people say I have OCD. But I say I have actually have CDO (which is OCD in alphabetical order).
I know they use lathes onboard ships , how do you level a lathe on a ship its never still , question do they have surface grinders on a ship maintenance dept
@@stuarthardy4626 There is information about maintaining lathes and such on ships if you google it. The bottom line is: they level them the best they can while in port, they don't use them when seas are rough, and they don't attempt to do precision work higher than 0.001" accuracy while out of port.
What do you do when you need a prop shaft while out in the middle of an ocean during a hurricane? @@kindabluejazz
How does wear on the grinding stone affect the end result of grinding regardless of how true the ways are?
Quite a bit (results in a "striped" pattern). That's why surface grinding wheels are frequently dressed, which takes out the error.
I would be scared to cross the fine line between scraping and scrapping 🙂
a "chase your tail" level.... LOL
I wouldn’t scrape it, leave as is it probably induction hardened and scrapping would just eat into the ways.
If the surfaces need to be scraped for oil retention on such a high-end machine, why wasn't this done at the factory ? Since there is so little wear in the ways after years of use, the reason may be that it is not necessary, or worse still, detrimental to the machine's longevity. I would leave well enough alone.
He can't help himself, OCD. My view point exactly!
If it's that good in 60year old machine, why scrape the surfaces? Just saying. The oiling system was doing it's Job.
George from Indiana
how do you make a bubble more accurate
Haha. I've wondered the same thing. The only thing I can think of is the precision of the bore on the glass tube. I suppose if the glass is thicker on both ends of the tube, the bubble would always want to gravitate to the center. I don't actually know if this is the correct answer to your question, though.
With master precision air.
It's all about the shape of the inside of the tube or flask or whatever is holding the bubble. I do not know, but I would guess that they have to figure out how to make the glass a very uniform thickness, and then they allow it to form itself into an outside mold that precisely determines the curves. Then... do that all day, every day, and make lots and lots of tubes. Then think some more, and tweak the machine and your process to make it more accurate, and do that for decades, while you learn a lot about forming glass! :)
The tube is ground on the inside for a uniform diameter slightly larger in the middle. A smaller difference makes the level more accurate, better said, more sensitive.@@buckinthetree1233
What color human hair Keith ?? LOL
If it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't see the need to scrape the ways on something that the
manufacture didn't do originally unless the ways are out of spec. This could be flirting
with disaster. I would map out the underside of the table before doing anything further
which may be already scraped in originally by the manufacturer. Got to know when things
are "Hands Off" and when to quit.
Work from the middle never from the outside...
Not even a public thank you to Keith H?
The lighter the human hair, the thinner, the darker, the thicker, many people are not aware of that fun fact.
Why is it important to have it that precisely level?
He explains it in the video.
@@kindabluejazzmaybe he will do it eventually but it seems like it is most important that the grinding wheel is perfectly perpendicular to the table in all locations, or that the distance from the bottom of the wheel to the table is identical.
@@kailuagarage He's been doing this kind of work for decades and he's a very smart man, I have confidence he'll do whatever needs to be done.
Keith as usual good content but mate i know you have to explain thing to us but mate once is enough please you are getting worse for this this is my thoughts no one else thanks for the video Cheers
Why do you care? Go away if you don't like his style.
22:00 The fix to your "problem" of the machine being too good for you, is to shop around for cheaper elderly machines that will give you more grief. LOL