Thompson Grinder Restoration: Hydraulic System and Finishing Touches
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Thompson Grinder Restoration: Hydraulic System and Finishing Touches
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The pump noise is just a reminder of how the old machine shops sounded. In a modern garage you are more likely to hear the sound of a cordless tool than an air tool. Great Video
I ran a Thompson and various other hydraulic grinders in the 80s, they all sound like that. Perhaps that's why my hearing is shot! We would warm them up 5-10 minutes in the morning and the noise would go down as the oil heated. It was best practice to warm the grinder for most presicion work.
Make sure your wheel is balanced. Often when stored on edge any coolant trapped in the wheel will migrate to the bottom and cause an imbalance. We always stored them flat. Best of luck and keep up the good work!
1:32 Jim has poured a lot of fluids in his career. Spout at the top!
It's always thrilling to see these older machines rebuilt and ready to do what they were made for. Thank you Keith!
I would go one step further and say, it's amazing how well these machines were designed. Today's machines are based on these designs and their predecessors.
Man, what a great resource to have a guy like that willing to come check out the hydraulics on your machine. I try to learn everything that I can any time I see a guy like that go to work. That generation of true master tradesmen is retiring and those opportunities are becoming less and less, unfortunately.
Nice addition to the workshop, it’s always good to see Jim in the shop , learning from his expertise is valuable to us all.
13:50, Keith, I'm not sure how important it is, but it seems to me that, that clear RTV silicone is for home projects and not for oil projects... I'm glad you're finally near the culmination😊...
These men represent a lifetime of knowledge learning their trade. It is good that there are men life these who gratefully share there knowledge with others.
Good work! Greetings from Dresden! 👍👍👍🍀☀❤🛠😎
Coming along nicely Keith. Don't forget to balance the wheel before you spin it up ❤
I don't think I have ever heard of a griding wheel that needed balancing.
I can't even imagine how it could be done. But I do know it is wise to ring test them before installation.
@jtjjbannie You can, and should. There's a couple pretty good videos on UA-cam how to do it. It's interesting.
@@jtjjbannie The order of work for installing a wheel: one hopes you rang the bell first, clean the arbor, tighten the arbor on the wheel - the paper is the driving surface of course, balance the wheel/arbor assembly [traditionally done off the grinder and with adjustable weights] - true the wheel to the spindle, dress the wheel to the desired shape, angle, ect.
@@jtjjbanniewell, that's the difference between a finish and a mess.
Bloody good to see Jim, would love to see him return oneday. G'day from Australia!
I was wondering about that wheel up on top of the grinder. When Jim was there I noticed that it needed some freshening up and there at the end of the video it was looking brand new. That’s one of the things I enjoy about your work, you pay attention to the details. I saw you on the Tally Ho channel this past weekend (1/20/2024?) can’t wait to see the finished capstan mounted on the bow of the Tally Ho.
It is so true that old machines were made to last. This one, like so many, may outlive all of us.
Looking good Keith 😊👍
Hey there Keith, In my woodworking shop I'm running 2 L. Power and Co. Machines from the 1800's along with some other oldies-but-goodies posted on my channel. You have inspired me through your videos to keep them going. Even though they run good, they could run better with some bearing work and after watching you videos on plain babbit bearings I know I can get it done! Your videos are informative and detailed which is what those of us using vintage machines need out here. Thank you for all the great videos!
My Dad use to say that any home project requires at least 3 trips to the hardware store.
Your dad is correct, if not 4 lol
Looks like it’s still true!
The worst part about it was finding a 37-degree Male JIC to NPT 45-degree Elbow in Tifton, GA on a Saturday morning.
My old machinist instructor always said that if you haven't been to the tool crib twice then you're not ready to finish the job.
At least!
It certainly is a good looking machine now.
Very nice job Keith. It's a new machine. I was watching the installation of the wheel dresser and as I remember in the shop that I worked in years ago we had precision radius dressers that would make pretty much create any radius or radius set on a wheel.
I don't know whether or not you have one but they are worth acquiring.
Great seeing Jim as a guest on this video, I hope he comes back next time we need a hydraulics guy to help
Great Job on restoring a piece of machining history. Looking forward to see it running and grinding.
Love the Fab Rats shirt! Another great video
Good Morning Georgia 😊
I spent years running a Thompson surface grinder of similar size. Great machine.
That machine looks absolutely pristine. Good job, Keith.
Jim rocking the fabrats tshirt
Bonjour de la France il est 16h46 vous avez fait une rénovation de qualité cette rectifieuse plane est de bonne
conception concernant le bâti et la broche il reste la rectif de la table et du plateau magnétique et la meule
et aussi les essais de la planéité de la table à bientôt pour la prochaine vidéo
Coming together very nicely! Thank you!
It's looking great!
Nice video.. thanks for posting. I restore machines also have done many 6x18 boyar schultz scraped them in and all.
Thank you for sharing.👍
Keith can only go so long without a grinder.
At a certain point, it becomes the #1 priority.
Now he's got the best grinder... ever.
very nice Keith
Great video thanks for sharing
Another beautiful restoration. Nice work.
Clean, elegant work - a true pleasure to see!
Thank you for another great video. Stay safe out there. Cheers
Thank you Keith! That's one pretty grinder!
That Thompson Grinder is absolutely a beautiful piece of vintage machinery Keith.
Looks very nice all reassembled.
Thanks for sharing the process.
Have a good evening.
Good morning Keith. The grinder is turning out great. Thanks for the videos.
That is a very nice grinder. It looks like a new machine!
"Golden Oldies, men and machine"!
Thanks Keith Rucker
Good job
Thanks for sharing.
Wow that is one thick grinding wheel!!!
Good morning
Great video,machine has come a long way,looking real good.just continue doing what you do best.😎😎😎👍👍👍
The manual for my Grizzly lathe says to use ISO 32 hydraulic fluid for way oil and general lubrication. I do and it works fine.
She's a beauty!
I looked up the prices of Hydraulic Fluid in 55 gallon drums and a 5 gallon bucket versus Twelve 5 gallon buckets of Hydraulic Fluid. It’s almost half the price by purchasing a 55 gallon drum and One 5 gallon bucket of Hydraulic Fluid versus Purchasing Twelve 5 gallon buckets of Hydraulic Fluid. The difference in n prices was. significant. You are like myself when it came to filling your surface grinder with 60 gallons of Hydraulic fluid. I wouldn’t be able to wait for a 55 gallon drum and a 5 gallon bucket of Hydraulic fluid,and purchased Twelve 5 gallon buckets of Hydraulic fluid.
Excellent job as usual restoring a machinist’s machine.
Our local Chevron dealer, it's the same price, buckets or drum.
looks good
I have 2 hydraulic driven British made Imperial surface grinders. I have to regain my shop from severe heat and now rain. Wanted one but got two. Mine uses Jerks to inject 30w oil. They were lower cost and cleaner than cups. Just have to get a paint bucket that siphons from the bottom and out a hose. Put proper hoses and connectors. Get air to pressure the tank and oil it up.
if i was making a guess on the pump noise. its because every gear to geat oil pump ive ever seen apart are all straight cut gears. im willing to say thats why they all make the whine just like the old strait cut transmissions or any gear box for that matter. my bushog i use to mow my fields is straight cut bevel gears and it makes the same whine.
Thoroughly enjoy your rebuilding old machinery. Particularly lie your bringing in the retired "Experts" during the rebuilds.
Your audio did a dip about the time, 22 minute, when you gave reference to Tom Utley making the machine label. Could you post a link on how to contact them?
Search for "vonindustrial machine tags" Tom's contact details are there.
I want to see sparks! 😊
Perhaps filling most of the cavities with oil, in addition to helping maintain a uniform temperature, also reduces vibrations enough to make it worth spending the extra money on oil.
Obviously the manufacturer would not have used so much oil just to increase the operating and maintenance costs of the machine.
Thanks!!!!!!
He was wearing a FabRats shirt, I watch them too! :D
Looking good.
That's a lot of empty 5 gallon pails, but it seems like you can always use another one for something.
Looking forward to seeing this in action.
People who can’t see the beauty in those machines are missing out.
Germany watch also.
If you want to hear real noise, hydraulic pumps driven by 6.6 kV motors on an offshore oil facility, double hearing protection was mandatory, nature of the beast.
good morning from boston
You might be able to wrap the pump with some sound deadening material….just a thought
Love the accent: Put the grinding stone own and get some orl in it.
lookig good keith
Lookin' good :-)
the oil pumps on the big lathes i operate sound almost exactly like this and they are over 20yrs old same sound as far as i can remember and all never had any issues other than a few leaks.
I like the idea of the overhead dresser, but I’m not a fan of them for finishing. They just don’t quite dress the same unless the machine is in very good condition. If there is an alignment issue it will dress it into the wheel, whereas a table dresser dresses it out.
I've always wondered about surface grinders precision due to the wheels being a consumable item. The stones must have a very slow wear rate yet even still they are wearing whilst in use so there must be discrepancies
There are! Different grinder techniques get used to account for wear, to stay within tolerance. E.g. standard "plunge" grinding plunges the wheel a small amount & traverses across the work, then the work is advanced along the X axis (parallel to the spindle axis) & the wheel traverses again. This repeats until the wheel has gone across the work entirely, then the depth is increased & the process is repeated. This wears the wheel evenly across, but the part may develop a slight taper since the wheel will have worn down a bit by the time it gets across. Usually grinding is done in steps, a "roughing" pass that doesn't control for this as much & then a finishing pass with a finer (or just freshly dressed) wheel that takes a very small cut to correct errors from roughing.
There's also "peel" grinding, where a wheel is plunged to full depth (or very near that), traversed across the work, but the step over (along the X axis) is less than half the diameter of an abrasive grain in the wheel. That tends to wear the front of the wheel (towards the operator for this Thompson grinder) more than the back; that concentrated roughing means the back corner of the wheel is what sets the final dimension & finish, and it doesn't wear as much.
Depending on the tolerances the wheel may need to be re-dressed more often. Picking the right wheel material matters, dressing chamfers on wheels, changing the corner radius of the dress, etc, are all important.
"Adam the Machinist" has some good surface grinder technique videos.
After the majority of the material is removed from the part, the wheel gets redressed back to round, level, and sharp. Then for the last few passes, you are only taking off a tenth of a thousanth or even less so you don't get much wheel breakdown.
Well, you could have run the spindle!
I think you will have a steep learning curve on grinding wheel selection and a large expense in various wheel purchases?
🎉
He's been running surface grinders for decades.
Getting so close to light off!!!!
I think your grinder was made in my hometown, Springfield, Ohio.
21:41 (* puff! *) And now Keith has cast-iron dust all over the shop, especially coating anything with a permanent magnet.
Looking good! I've always wondered how you account for wear on the grinding wheel especially on a bigger job like that table? I'm sire it's very small relative to the metal you're removing but it isn't zero. Is there some method on the machine to measure and teach that over the course of a job?
Well, a side effect benefit is that I finally learned what 5 x 12 equals.
Kentucky is watching
Hope you guys are staying warm up there, Hello from Florida!
It's a heat wave today 40 degrees
@@Hoaxer51
"I've got to rearrange my sock drawer"? I'm at a total loss to guess what that means. had me chuckling though.
Nice one on helping out, I thought cavatating was just what happens to propellers on the Hunt for the Red October!
It is a way of saying he will be intentionally unavailable to do that task in the future.
ah thank you@@richduzenbury1066
What is the Bijur oiler for if the hydraulics oil the bed ways?
Most likely the hand wheels and their shafts require that help. If it can be forgotten, Bijur will see to it for you.
I’m surprised that you lost audio on both your mic and Jim’s. I assume that the receiver battery died, and that you have a two channel receiver?
Sparks
@26:10 you can see far on the left the safety inspector waiting (no, he's waiting) for the final inspection.
Im just curious, just having machining as a hobby. How is hydraulic vs mechanical screws when it comes to accuracy?
I understand wanting to grind the table but did you indicate it , curious ?
How do you ensure the wheel dresser is dressing parallel to the table?
Keith! I haven't seen one of your videos in a while, congrats on the weight loss!
That quantity of hydraulic oil would be about £700 in the UK, for decent stuff like Millers. I'm really brassed off that I have to spend a 10th of that to change the oil on my Jones & Shipman 540. God only knows how you feel pouring buckets of the stuff into your Thompson.
That's a lot of oil. Why such a big reservoir? Is it so the oil doesn't get too hot?
👍😎
Did you finish the diresta bandsaw?
Any idea what year this machine was manufactured?
You may be able to get a 30 gal drum
60 gallons of hydraulic fluid on that machine seems crazy to me. I'm guessing it could be 5 gallons with a cooler, maybe.
Likely correct, however passive cooling always works and is silent.
I thought so too. I have worked with bigger machines with much smaller tanks.
@@millwrightrick1ya, and a Taiwan grinder only lasts 5 years.
*- Keith, why are 60 gallons of hydraulic oil required for this machine?*
*- The piston travel of both the table and milling head combined can't need that many gallons.*
These ran 24/7 when new, and ran for 75 years.
What size chuch does it use?
Mr Rucker, one way to deal with the excessive decibels coming from the pump, would be to encase it in a soundproof container. If there is sufficient space. to build a box from counter top MDF. The thicker the better. Heat buildup might be an issue, but I expect that with a 60 gallon reservoir, it will cool itself sufficiently. Perhaps you will need an opening for air to circulate, but the opening can be baffled.
And, if you want to build a a Cadillac, fashion a double walled casing box, using plywood or sheet metal, and pour concrete into the between space. It can also be sand with a fixative, or even plaster. But concrete is best. If you have space, some acoustic material as a liner can be helpful. The more dense and rigid it is, the better it will work. But MDF is sufficient, and easier to work with.
I hope this helps you out. Greetings from Germany.
You put the old filter in the hydraulic system. No new one?
60 gal. seems like a lot for a machine with only two small cylinders but what do I know.
Out of curiosity I searched Home Depot’s site to see what 5 gallons (or 55 gallons) of hydraulic fluid costs. It is not cheap.
For that tag Keith had made, is it Von Industrial?? Anyone know?
yep
@@MrChevelle83 Thank you, I need some tags made.