HN SLUG > FX HYBRID ...WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF EACH GUN USED IN THIS VIDEO HARD LEAD > SOFT LEAD SLUG LOW OR HIGH VELOCITY MORE ENERGY DUMP ON IMPACT PERFORMS EXACTLY AS SOFT POINT BULLET GREATER PENETRATION EXCEPTIONAL EXPANSION
My diana 350 magnum is plenty powerful with standard hollowpount crossman premium you showed us works on vermin. I hated to admit the accuracy of cheep pellets. Washed, relubed and culled for skirt dents.
G'day. Great video as always. I'm writing to confirm everything you demonstrated. I shoot .22 Magnum break barrels - one Gamo, one Sig. I get called in to cull rabbits, At 75 yds, both pass through most pellets - let alone slugs. Typically all head shots. Rarely a heart shot. Typically I use 18.13 Jumbo in the Gamo, and 15.89 in the Sig. Those weights get me very very similar dope with a muzzle velocity of 870'ish fps. Even copper coated fully mushroom on backstops at 100yds. IMHO - slugs under 100yds are pointless, unlesss they are super soft at weights over 21gr. if folks don't think about their downrange environment (i.e past the target out to 300yds, and they have a pass through, chances of having a bad day - or someone else having a bad day are very high) I always ensure there is substantial backstop. At 30 yds, both my magnums will put PBA or hard copper coated lead pellets through a 3/4" Plywood Board. IMHO - the best projectile I've come across are Hades 75yds and under for small game and pest control. It's a hell of a lot safer to know your dope and windage intimately, than try to use Slugs to combat conditions (wind) or extend range/increase game size for anything but wide open ranges. Any kind of urban or semi rural environment - use pellets at lower velocity. If folk want to shoot in heavy wind, learn a heavy pellet intimately - and accept your effective range will be less. Not everybody has access to permissions with Miles between dwellings, roadways or other folk.Just some thoughts. Great video James - stick to your guns Mr, ignore the haters.
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS I'm fairly certain expansion comes from projectile design and materials used. Penetration comes from projectile design and velocity at impact. If the projectile design is for penetration and materials are too hard you get pass through on soft targets and low or zero expansion. Which is why the lads in SA have modified their Slug design. They have always used very soft lead compared to other manufacturers. So their slugs gave folks expansion on impact/penetration AND relative stability even at closer ranges. But the redesigns appear to be even better. Other slugs I've tried have been far too hard for soft targets like rabbit. The wound cavity on vitals was ok but not great. Head shots were fine, but the chance of ricochet at high retained velocity and energy made them downrange meant penetration into backstops was still too deep for my tastes, and a ricochets bloody dangerous. Folks shooting "hard" slugs at over 1000fps are inviting serious issues on all but the widest, and most open ranges. There would be enormous Public Safety value in somebody recording the potential for harm down range following slug pass through's. I have serious concerns some folk just don't understand the risks or lethality,
The truth here is that while that is the best test media you have found, it is still just that. The real test is on the individual game animals. I have shot and tested virtually every slug and pellet on the market, and all I do is dairy pesting and mountain hunting. I shoot my American air arms evol using 21 hn slugs at 930 fps and jsb 18.13s at 980 and I can say without a doubt, the slugs expand to some degree and do much more damage than the pellets on dove and especially ground squirrel out to 100 yards or more. Simply put, I wouldn't shoot a vitals shot on a squirrel with a pellet because they always will run, vs the slug will dump them right there. Of course a head or CNS shot with anything will work regardless of projectile. The impact noise alone from a slug vs a pellet is tell tale, and not all slugs work the same. Patriot javelin, h&n, ZAN, NSA all seem to expand great on game. Hybrids have been the least reliable in my experience.
Like I said ....it is the most representable to animal flesh/ballistics anyone will find...you should see my 22lr expansion results on my STKO UA-cam channel which yet again proves my results are spot on with this testing media...and field tested...
How many foot pounds is that?. I have shot a ton of pellets and pulled them from game animal's. My gun shoots 28 to 30 foot pounds and for the most part pellets do not expand. You will get some minimum expansion from HN terminator, HN Hunter extreme, and poly mag. It you get out past 30 yards or more you will not get any in a 30 ft/lb 22 cal
I agree that if the industry is not careful, we could see rules like in the UK where they have to be under 12-foot pounds, or get a special permit for the higher energy guns.
I'd love to see your test results with JSB 15.9 Hades at 800 or 900 FPS. I doubt you get much with 14.9 CPHPs at 900 FPS, but maybe I'm wrong? Test them for us, if you have not already done so. Thanks for what you do!
Agree, would be interesting to see the same test with the JSB Hades 15.89gr and JSB 18.13gr - maybe throw in the 25.39 JSB Jumbo Monsters to have a comparison to the slugs
I just did a real test on a squirrel at 60 yards with gauntlet 30. 950 fps with fx slug. The outer shrapnel carcus of the slug was found inside of the squirl and rear bottom part of the slug passes through no where to be found.
The thing is... most people that CANNOT own a firearm is for a good reason... Usually they are the kind of people saying ; Hi I am a Felon wich airgun is better for home defense?
I’m surprised at the results but am glad you tested the way you did. Were you able to dig the slugs out of the squirrels and inspect them? It would be nice to see what happened there.
Reminds me of the time you used the barracuda hunter extremes in a break barrel with pass through. But with a pcp you get expansion with more power, Interesting
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS for me in both Avenger and RTI Arms Prophet Performance Edition they perform VERY well in regards to both accuracy and expansion in .177 13 gr
Yea accuracy isnt so much a problem for me but if the slug doesn't expand and I have to follow up a shot or chase the wounded animal then it doesn't make sense
My question is...is a passthrought always a bad thing? I know a bigger hole is better But will a passthrought do the job most of the time (at the right spot)
Yup it'll do the job -but the issue is how much residual energy/speed does the projectile still carry down range on exit - and in what direction? Not every shooter, (black powder or airgunner) thinks about the effective range on pass through. Most responsible shooters always take a firing position to ensure a solid back stop (fence posts/ tree trunks/ rafters etc) but not everyone.
Pass thru shot isnt a bad thing but what's in question is how much damage does the projectile do in the vital organs causing the animal to be dispatched and harvested quickly without suffering as much as possible ...here in my state of Indiana as many others, an arrow from a bow has to have a hunting broadhead for deer not a field point for practicing, and full metal copper jacket bullets are ILLEGAL for deer, following along the lines of penetration and expansion....soft point bullets or hollowpoints have to be used
Great test. To me this proves that accuracy is way better than speed. In one of my rifles so far, the slug I run thru it is more accurate than most of the pellets. There is one or two pellets are are just a smige more accurate, but at almost twice the cost per round. In my case where I'm shooting 100's of sage rats the pennys saved is a penny earned:) Good Vid
Due to the thickness of the 30ct wipe pack it directly represents the small animal's body,fur, and flesh. My ballistic results with my own setup wipe pack, water jug, and pillow have been have been 100% repeatable in the field, whether it's pellets, slugs or 22LR
A person bout as well shoot copper or steel at low speeds. Most lead they use today is way too hard. Some squirrel shot is way harder than others. I like lead that is soft.
i need bad help plz . any info on this gun will help over i bought it soon as i saw ur first post on Beeman cheif . i have bought the Beeman QB Chief in 22 cal. the oil rings is going bad in it after a few years of use and i need a link to buy a full rebuild of the kit on the oil rings plz
You can test .58 Zeus. This gun is only one big bore airgun can shot heavy slug(450gr+)with high velocity . Even only hit water still can got a perfect slug Mushroom。
Hey James, I thought that the point of shooting heavy lead slugs was for getting better bc to get better distance, penetration, and fpe for bigger game. Granted, a lot of slugs are hollow points, but I think if people want expansion they will stick to soft lead pellets vs heavy soft lead slugs. Also, I think that spring or piston airguns won't be regulated because they just have not been able to generate the same velocity, fpe, or range, as powder burners. And PCP airguns are still for the most part too expensive if you add up the cost of the gun, air source, and extra bottles, ammo, etc. Airgun prices are going up and the costs are making it harder to afford a higher quality higher performing PCP that can generate enough velocity to make the slugs expand, penetrate, and go the distance. The environmentalists and the industry are trying to get non lead ammo to be the standard. If that's the case, most likely it will end up being some kind of polymer or alloy and a weaker powerplant. Besides, slugs are also more expensive, and you have already shown in a few of your other videos that you can get pretty good performance from cheaper Crosman Premier pellets just by sorting for head diameter and grain weight consistency, checking for damaged skirts, washing with Dawn liquid dish detergent, lightly oiling the pellets, and deeply seating the pellets. Anyway, that's my guess. Thanks again for a great video. Excellent content and subject. Very thought provoking. Stay Safe, Be Well, God Bless.
Nice video. I've used oranges and grapefruits with a pc of paper right behind it and then a bottle of water or stack of cardboard to catch the lead. Good idea of those wipes.
HN SLUG > FX HYBRID ...WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF EACH GUN USED IN THIS VIDEO
HARD LEAD > SOFT LEAD SLUG LOW OR HIGH VELOCITY
MORE ENERGY DUMP ON IMPACT
PERFORMS EXACTLY AS SOFT POINT BULLET
GREATER PENETRATION
EXCEPTIONAL EXPANSION
Do the same test with .25 cal.
I love your testing methods...simple and straight forward
My diana 350 magnum is plenty powerful with standard hollowpount crossman premium you showed us works on vermin. I hated to admit the accuracy of cheep pellets. Washed, relubed and culled for skirt dents.
G'day. Great video as always. I'm writing to confirm everything you demonstrated. I shoot .22 Magnum break barrels - one Gamo, one Sig. I get called in to cull rabbits, At 75 yds, both pass through most pellets - let alone slugs. Typically all head shots. Rarely a heart shot. Typically I use 18.13 Jumbo in the Gamo, and 15.89 in the Sig. Those weights get me very very similar dope with a muzzle velocity of 870'ish fps. Even copper coated fully mushroom on backstops at 100yds. IMHO - slugs under 100yds are pointless, unlesss they are super soft at weights over 21gr. if folks don't think about their downrange environment (i.e past the target out to 300yds, and they have a pass through, chances of having a bad day - or someone else having a bad day are very high) I always ensure there is substantial backstop. At 30 yds, both my magnums will put PBA or hard copper coated lead pellets through a 3/4" Plywood Board. IMHO - the best projectile I've come across are Hades 75yds and under for small game and pest control. It's a hell of a lot safer to know your dope and windage intimately, than try to use Slugs to combat conditions (wind) or extend range/increase game size for anything but wide open ranges. Any kind of urban or semi rural environment - use pellets at lower velocity. If folk want to shoot in heavy wind, learn a heavy pellet intimately - and accept your effective range will be less. Not everybody has access to permissions with Miles between dwellings, roadways or other folk.Just some thoughts.
Great video James - stick to your guns Mr, ignore the haters.
Thanks! Seems to be a trend that low velocity equals penetration and high velocity is for expansion...and of course the design of the projectile
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS I'm fairly certain expansion comes from projectile design and materials used. Penetration comes from projectile design and velocity at impact. If the projectile design is for penetration and materials are too hard you get pass through on soft targets and low or zero expansion. Which is why the lads in SA have modified their Slug design. They have always used very soft lead compared to other manufacturers. So their slugs gave folks expansion on impact/penetration AND relative stability even at closer ranges. But the redesigns appear to be even better.
Other slugs I've tried have been far too hard for soft targets like rabbit. The wound cavity on vitals was ok but not great. Head shots were fine, but the chance of ricochet at high retained velocity and energy made them downrange meant penetration into backstops was still too deep for my tastes, and a ricochets bloody dangerous.
Folks shooting "hard" slugs at over 1000fps are inviting serious issues on all but the widest, and most open ranges.
There would be enormous Public Safety value in somebody recording the potential for harm down range following slug pass through's. I have serious concerns some folk just don't understand the risks or lethality,
I’m able to get 16gr griffin slugs up to 1023fps with my first test in my 22 cal bullpup avenger.
The truth here is that while that is the best test media you have found, it is still just that. The real test is on the individual game animals. I have shot and tested virtually every slug and pellet on the market, and all I do is dairy pesting and mountain hunting. I shoot my American air arms evol using 21 hn slugs at 930 fps and jsb 18.13s at 980 and I can say without a doubt, the slugs expand to some degree and do much more damage than the pellets on dove and especially ground squirrel out to 100 yards or more. Simply put, I wouldn't shoot a vitals shot on a squirrel with a pellet because they always will run, vs the slug will dump them right there. Of course a head or CNS shot with anything will work regardless of projectile. The impact noise alone from a slug vs a pellet is tell tale, and not all slugs work the same. Patriot javelin, h&n, ZAN, NSA all seem to expand great on game. Hybrids have been the least reliable in my experience.
Like I said ....it is the most representable to animal flesh/ballistics anyone will find...you should see my 22lr expansion results on my STKO UA-cam channel which yet again proves my results are spot on with this testing media...and field tested...
How many foot pounds is that?. I have shot a ton of pellets and pulled them from game animal's. My gun shoots 28 to 30 foot pounds and for the most part pellets do not expand. You will get some minimum expansion from HN terminator, HN Hunter extreme, and poly mag. It you get out past 30 yards or more you will not get any in a 30 ft/lb 22 cal
I agree that if the industry is not careful, we could see rules like in the UK where they have to be under 12-foot pounds, or get a special permit for the higher energy guns.
Hi !
I am CANADA.
We also call me North Murica,
My laws are way worst than UK/EUROPE laws. 😥
Yep!
I'd love to see your test results with JSB 15.9 Hades at 800 or 900 FPS. I doubt you get much with 14.9 CPHPs at 900 FPS, but maybe I'm wrong? Test them for us, if you have not already done so. Thanks for what you do!
Agree, would be interesting to see the same test with the JSB Hades 15.89gr and JSB 18.13gr - maybe throw in the 25.39 JSB Jumbo Monsters to have a comparison to the slugs
like to see a 700 FPS also
I'll see what I can do
i'm not sure what fps my gun shoots at, it's around 210-220 meters per second. CPHP mushroom decent on squirrels
Off topic but did you go to the Extreme benchrest?
I just did a real test on a squirrel at 60 yards with gauntlet 30. 950 fps with fx slug. The outer shrapnel carcus of the slug was found inside of the squirl and rear bottom part of the slug passes through no where to be found.
Yea big bores are alot more surface area than 22, so your experience sounds about right
.25 cal. slugs expand well also.
Some ppl can't own firearms, that power is next best thing.
The thing is... most people that CANNOT own a firearm is for a good reason...
Usually they are the kind of people saying ; Hi I am a Felon wich airgun is better for home defense?
@@LowkeyAirgunner that's your opinion nothing more. You sound like a leftist gun grabber... Move on pal.
I’m surprised at the results but am glad you tested the way you did. Were you able to dig the slugs out of the squirrels and inspect them? It would be nice to see what happened there.
Reminds me of the time you used the barracuda hunter extremes in a break barrel with pass through.
But with a pcp you get expansion with more power, Interesting
Exactly the puzzle is starting to come to together lol thanks man
thnx for the vid! can you try this test with ZAN?
I'll see what I can do
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS maybe if possible you might want to compare them with jsb knockout. thnx
I thought slugs were more about less drop at range and retained energy. Not expansion
In my barra1100z .22,Nielson slugs 17.5 gr,I'm getting 816.7 fps ,fpe-25.88.Hades 15.89 856-870fps,and crosman premier hollow point 881.5 -816 fps ,fpe 21-24.64.
Nice
Try the test with Zan slugs ;)
I'll see what I can do
@@ALLABOUTAIRGUNS for me in both Avenger and RTI Arms Prophet Performance Edition they perform VERY well in regards to both accuracy and expansion in .177 13 gr
Thanks, hey why did the hybrids shoot so slow. Are they tighter in yhe barrel so they come out slower?
Yea
Have you done that test with the Hades pellet or other hollow points
crosman CHPs/Piranhas so far...I need to do more test like this
Same thing I’ve found .. also feel like accuracy suffers when shot at normal air rifle speeds
Yea accuracy isnt so much a problem for me but if the slug doesn't expand and I have to follow up a shot or chase the wounded animal then it doesn't make sense
My question is...is a passthrought always a bad thing?
I know a bigger hole is better
But will a passthrought do the job most of the time (at the right spot)
Yup it'll do the job -but the issue is how much residual energy/speed does the projectile still carry down range on exit - and in what direction? Not every shooter, (black powder or airgunner) thinks about the effective range on pass through. Most responsible shooters always take a firing position to ensure a solid back stop (fence posts/ tree trunks/ rafters etc) but not everyone.
Pass thru shot isnt a bad thing but what's in question is how much damage does the projectile do in the vital organs causing the animal to be dispatched and harvested quickly without suffering as much as possible ...here in my state of Indiana as many others, an arrow from a bow has to have a hunting broadhead for deer not a field point for practicing, and full metal copper jacket bullets are ILLEGAL for deer, following along the lines of penetration and expansion....soft point bullets or hollowpoints have to be used
Great test. To me this proves that accuracy is way better than speed. In one of my rifles so far, the slug I run thru it is more accurate than most of the pellets. There is one or two pellets are are just a smige more accurate, but at almost twice the cost per round. In my case where I'm shooting 100's of sage rats the pennys saved is a penny earned:) Good Vid
Thanks man!
How is this the best testing medium for small game?
Due to the thickness of the 30ct wipe pack it directly represents the small animal's body,fur, and flesh. My ballistic results with my own setup wipe pack, water jug, and pillow have been have been 100% repeatable in the field, whether it's pellets, slugs or 22LR
A person bout as well shoot copper or steel at low speeds. Most lead they use today is way too hard. Some squirrel shot is way harder than others. I like lead that is soft.
Yep!
What Chronograph are you using?
i need bad help plz . any info on this gun will help over i bought it soon as i saw ur first post on Beeman cheif . i have bought the Beeman QB Chief in 22 cal. the oil rings is going bad in it after a few years of use and i need a link to buy a full rebuild of the kit on the oil rings plz
You can test .58 Zeus. This gun is only one big bore airgun can shot heavy slug(450gr+)with high velocity .
Even only hit water still can got a perfect slug Mushroom。
hey buddy where are you ?????
Hey James,
I thought that the point of shooting heavy lead slugs was for getting better bc to get better distance, penetration, and fpe for bigger game.
Granted, a lot of slugs are hollow points, but I think if people want expansion they will stick to soft lead pellets vs heavy soft lead slugs.
Also, I think that spring or piston airguns won't be regulated because they just have not been able to generate the same velocity, fpe, or range, as powder burners. And PCP airguns are still for the most part too expensive if you add up the cost of the gun, air source, and extra bottles, ammo, etc.
Airgun prices are going up and the costs are making it harder to afford a higher quality higher performing PCP that can generate enough velocity to make the slugs expand, penetrate, and go the distance.
The environmentalists and the industry are trying to get non lead ammo to be the standard. If that's the case, most likely it will end up being some kind of polymer or alloy and a weaker powerplant. Besides, slugs are also more expensive, and you have already shown in a few of your other videos that you can get pretty good performance from cheaper Crosman Premier pellets just by sorting for head diameter and grain weight consistency, checking for damaged skirts, washing with Dawn liquid dish detergent, lightly oiling the pellets, and deeply seating the pellets.
Anyway, that's my guess.
Thanks again for a great video. Excellent content and subject. Very thought provoking.
Stay Safe, Be Well, God Bless.
Nice video.
I've used oranges and grapefruits with a pc of paper right behind it and then a bottle of water or stack of cardboard to catch the lead.
Good idea of those wipes.
Thanks!
Another great video my friend..Glad I only bought a couple of tins of the 21 grain slugs. Also, Thanks for the o-ring delete kits for my Origin.👍
Thanks!
Great video jimmy!
Thanks!
Lmao. Funny how your the guy on the fb AV group said and argued with people that this rifle couldn't shoot slugs. So full of BS.