What They Don't Tell You About Lolth's Drow - D&D
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- Опубліковано 23 гру 2024
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SOURCES
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd Edition
Drow of the Underdark
Demihuman Deities
Faiths and Pantheons
Dungeon Master's Guide 5e
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide 4e
Player's Guide to Faerun 3e
Races of Faerun
Menzoberranzan - City of Intrigue 4e
Fiendish Codex I - Hordes of the Abyss
Dungeon Magazine #204 - Denizens of the Demonweb
Mordenkainen Tome of Foes
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Can we get anything with the picture at 22:52??
The drizzt books are considered cannon.....and it's said in there that they are not inherently evil
So remember when you were gonna make a video about each deity with stats starting with Uthgar and going from lowest to highest? Pepperidge farm remembers
"Based" lol, fantastic.
will you do lore of the gnomes,dwarfs, humans, halflings?
So status in Drow society determines how skimpy your clothing is allowed to be?
That makes Ellistraee's "Get naked lol" even more of a power move than it first seems.
Had a "paladin" of Ellistraee once, really they were a fighter/Bard as my characters approach to converting drow was repent or die so a little extreme for her. Anyways we were tasked with going to a orc city that had been taken over by drow, she stripped naked aside from her dancing silks and proceeded through the underdark with her party with nothing but silk and two scimitars to represent the moon.
@@VirtualMousse I been wanting to do priestess a Eilistraee from the clan of drow that rejected Loth and took power for themselves by
by becoming drow dragons. However they are not all drow dragons and it's rare but there are enough that they can stand apart from Loth and they hate her with a passion.
No, in their religion they become nude to humble themselves, it is a source of shame they endure to show Lolth that they know they are beneath her. This is also why Lolth in contrast will utilizes fully clothed/covered avatars by contrast. The reason that Drow with more power dress in less cloths is because they want to avoid Lolths attention by not brodcasting their pride. They are basically primitively subjugating themselves so as to not suffer a more severe subjugation by Lolth in the form of a test.
Ellistraee's by contrast wants Drow to know that there is no shame in nudity and in fact it is their natural grace and beauty that they should take pride in. Living by her own advice she choses to be nude in spite of being a goddess. She exists as extreme counter to Lolth.
@@robertdicke7249 Nice didn’t think of it like that 👍
I also read from the "Drow of the Underdark" book (May 2007 printing, 224 pages) that doing this shows that your body has fewer flaws than others. If someone is hiding part of their body, it is likely a form of weakness (you need armor, or are covering an embarrassing scar/tattoo)
"these tests are also random" just imagining one of the matron mothers in the middle of a council meeting swarmed by spiders like "goddamnit this is not a good time"
I always liked the idea that Drizzt has Lolth's favor, as she appreciates the chaos he brings to her people, and has passed her every test.
I agree. It fits so well into lolth’s story and hold true to Drizzt’s struggle to be free of his people’s reputation
Absolutely. Not just the chaos that he brings but the ones who chase and seek out Drizzt and his companions do nothing but spread that chaos. There's no way he doesn't have her favor.
I could be remembering wrong, but wasn't mentioned in one of the earlier books that he does have her favor.
@@cilith1 I believe it was speculated on, but not said explicitly. But yes, this idea has been toyed with in canon,
@Wirr Ling because Lolth's favour is the worst.
I love the drow so much! They're messy and weird and bring up uncomfortable topics, and really enable my favorite thing about roleplaying, which is trying to think like someone from a very different upbringing. How would I act if I were brought up in such a cutthroat society?
People who haven't had much contact with cultures other than their own fail to realize how strong an influence it is on us. Culture determines what you value, what makes you laugh, what stresses you out and what comforts you. Even if you were good-natured at heart, you would probably miss watching slapstick routines wherein slaves are dismembered and must fight each other with their own detached limbs if that's the sort of thing you grew up doing for entertainment.
Most importantly, keeping the drow so evil by baseline allows for the demonstration of a crucial component of goodness: that it is easy to be a saint in paradise. It's easy to do good when everyone agrees what good is, but when you're thr only one in your society with a working moral compass it is infinitely harder to do what you know is right. Furthermore, if you are good despite your natural inclination towards anger, hatred, and cruelty, that is far more impressive than if it came naturally to you. You may not win over your nature all the time,but the struggle to do what is right despite others and despite yourself is a powerful story to tell.
You speak as though you were Paarthurnax. He had to have a very complex mind to be able to master his very nature.
If you can master one kind of nature, why not more. I understand some method actors practice this.
@@gromashtheunsettled2561 given this channel's history I figured invoking Paarthunax would help get my point across :) It helps me when a new viewpoint is packaged in a familiar medium.
I would also add that the fact that it's easy to be good in paradise is why it's good to create paradise. Drow culture harms more Drow than anyone else
I think its even worse then how you bring it. Because Drow society outright kills people who even show the inclination for doing good. It isent just hard, its outright impossible to stay alive and be good in drow society. Which is probably also why a very large group of Drow who are good decide to leave. Because doing anything else means they die. And leaving it all is a feat of its own.
MrRex: you can only worship Lolth
Eilistraee, hold my clothes.
I don't think she had any to hand over to begin with...
You have it wrong.
Drow: you can only worship Lolth.
MrRhexx: Hold my clothes
Dwarf: hold my Ale! bring on the wenches!!!
"-the kobalds who are dominated by Kurtalmak, and he alone."
Me, making _another_ Kobald cleric of Tiamat: "Whatever you say, bud."
if a Kobold did follow someone or thing besides Kurtulmak it most likely would be a dragon god. They revire dragons which is why some colonies have a dragon that they raise in their heart and take care of. While it falls to asgorath for the elevation of Kurtulmack to a god considering it can be said that he created the dragon race, any dragon warship regardless of it is a good dragon or a evil dragon would most likely be accepted, though it might make you reincarnate in a much less than wanted position when you die. Me and my friends did our own supper deep dive into kobold lore, and then graced our dm with a trio of kobolds when we started our next campaign, a sorcerer, a rogue and a cleric. We were sent on a mission by our tribe to find a new suitable location for the tribe to move into when it split as it was becoming over populated as well as to acquire as much gold and wealth as possible to try to get a dragon to stay in and protect the new found colonie. I was a cleric of Kurulmack, the sorcerer a dragon blood sorcerer, and the rogue our rogue. (rogues with pack tactics op) and with that we were off.
@@bluedrake1218 I love adventures to find real estate.
I'm playing a light domain kobold cleric of Bahamut. He blows stuff up. Good times.
So it's treason then.
@@DooWopCinderBlock I've got a back-up order domain kobold cleric of Bahamut, Rolo the Silver. Yeah it didn't go over well back home 🙃😂
She may be one of the most evil creatures in D&D, but damn can she cook! Her Cipollate con Pancetta is the best in the multiverse. That's the real reason she has followers.
Don't forget the incredible Focaccine di nonna Lolth ai funghi, mammamia soo good.
I am lost.
I'm comfused
@@fallinthequazar and I'm sure that's your natural state of mind.
@@clericofchaos1 chill my dude
I like to lean toward the second iteration of the nature vs nurture option primarily because Lolth influences the drow rather than create them. Gruumsh creates orcs, so it makes sense that they are pure evil. Drow should be more susceptible to nurture.
That argument might hold up, until you consider demonic blood is bred into them. Drow are literally part demon because of the pact Lolth influenced the original dark elves to make with Wendonai.
Key word “Should”
Well, Gruumsh had his eye cut out by Corellon over an argument for Orc having no place other than outcast though. Kinda influenced Dark Cloak from OOtS.
Not sure if it was “bad guy that had unintentionally sympathetic moment” since this is also a setting where Sun Elves started five genocidal wars, which are shown as “lines never to be crossed” and probably destroy good Drow civilization yet never got punished except for the Elf kingdom who started it.
My first taste of d and d came through the drizt novels so I love anything to do with the drow
jup me to
This is such a common thing and I'm here for it!
Same here. I love the drow cuz of those novels
I kinda took those books another way. Became a non fan of them. Inky love for the champions of the hall
d and d
Here's something to remember about Drow:
Elves, like humans, are born broken. An Elf was only complete at the dawn of time, when it was free and perfect with Corelon. Drow are still Elves, but Lolth took their pieces and twisted them.
There was a time, before the Crown Wars when they were just lost, now they are banished to the deepest darkness of the world, having lost their connection to the light and to the weave.
In a way, the surface Elves are not wrong comparing the Drow to Humans. A surface Elf will claim it was born perfect, but a Human or a Drow will admit on being broken and some will even try to put themselves back together.
That's why Eilistraee is a Good Goddess, because she promises:
_I will put you back together._
Broken as op, or broken as incomplete, why u humans are broken? I kinda get why elfs/drow are broken but not humans
@@KW-tx6er Broken as in flawed, like, you could be perfect and within you there is the potential for perfection, but clearly you're not. I like to take such weird concepts (often drawn from real world religions) and apply them to D&D.
@@MythosTheSophist somethings like arrogation of humankind, where humans pursue godlike powers etc? Even gods aren't perfect :D so why we humans should be :D we should enjoy our life, living our best till we die
But is being 'whole' can you even be considered Human or Elf. Cattapiller =/= Butterfly.
@Wirr Ling It's on my list. It's a long list, mind you.
Oh baby time to learn about the evil elven dommy mommy
lol
@@angrycup8708 I think you meant to say "LOLth" 😅
@@Coopernicuss thats great
Drow are such an interesting race in D&D. Whenever people compare them to real life groups of people they have absolutely no idea what theyre talking about.
Who can you compare them to?
@@Hardbody94 dominatrix
@@Hardbody94 Redditors.
@@Hardbody94me :)
America 🇺🇸
i know this is probably gonna get lost in the sea of comments u probably get , but i want to say that you're one of 3 youtubers im subscribed to....simply because your content is so high quality.
and i'm not even a dnd player. in eastern europe dnd isn't really a thing. My only contact with dnd were games like baldurs gate and icewindale or planescape....but i was always fascinated by the lore.
keep up the good job dude.
Yeah I've never roleplayed D&D either but have played video games like Neverwinter Nights but I really like the lore.
If you're interested in playing, online is a great idea, even if there is no one in your area playing, the whole country gives at least a bigger opportunity!
I personally recommend roll20 as a platform since it has forums to look for games as well as being able to run games while being free to use (to an extend).
I should be playing a game soon online and most of the group are eastern Europeans. In I'm from the US, there's a Mexican, a Hungarian, I think one guy's a Turk, and I forgot where the other 2 are from but I know they're in Eastern Europe, and we almost had a Romanian guy but he flaked.
@@youcantbeatk7006 sorry , but i don't care for the online experience
Try out some of the newer rpgs nowadays. If you don't mind new lore than divinity original sin 1 and 2, Pillars of Eternity, Dragon Age, and Solosta are all great games. If you prefer the dnd license than Neverwinter Nights 2 is one of the most recent licensed games, and Baldur's Gate 3 is in early access and will be fully released early next year.
On positions of male power one has to mention Gromph Baenre the archmage of menzoberranzan he’s lived for a very very long time and retained his authority to “sometimes” be able to stand against some clerics due to his own power and his house. Far from the level of a female cleric but further than any male can go with maybe the exception of his brother.
I would like to hear about Torog "The Crawling King" that would be a interesting one and the rest of the demon lords
I haven't heard him mentioned at all in 5e. I really hope WotC gets around to including him in the modern Lore.
"drow can't be good"
*Points at the ranger with two scimitars and a panther brooding in the corner*
Congratulations you found one out of millions
@@charlottewalnut3118 oh am sorry
*Moves finger to the ranger with two scimitar and a panther WITH GOOD WRITING brooding in the corner.*
@@honestgoblinproductions5663 ah yes the many Drizzit Ripoffs
@@thebaron2277 wait hold on, this comment worries me, how many shameless copies does he have?!
@@MrVampirePirate it's an old joke. Basically back when the drizzt novels became popular people started to make their D&D characters be drow rangers too, the problem was that they basically played the character as an edgy loner and flanderised him to the point that he became a bad joke in the community.
"If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough."
It's only cheating if you get caught.
@@zacharyhawley1693 I love your comment dude
@@zacharyhawley1693and you're only caught if the witness survives long enough to turn you in.
I've only played a drow once and I sort of went with the plotting and scheming being inate to them but playing her as chaotic good, she mostly had plots and schemes for pranks on the rest of the party. Man, I miss her.
I mean considering that we've got the priestesses of Eilistraee who as you've stated before sings to the drow to lead them to her and away from her mother and those who decide to follow her, are well... good thus, there are good drow with their mission dictated by Eilistraee to try and save the other drow from Lolth while also doing good deeds, so to say "All Drows are inherently evil" would go against everything Eilistraee does in regards to this matter.
Great video!
One thing I think is sad, is people always frown upon playing an evil character. One have to put effort into doing it correctly, and not be a cartoon villain and that are kicking puppies and going murder hobo for no reason. There are good resources out there on getting you into the right mindset for each evil alignment bracket that are nuanced. If done right it incentives character investment, progression and role play. It’s really satisfying if you do it right, and you’ll add a lot of more depth by treading into uncharted territory. I can highly recommend it, if you do the research and commit with the mindset of “the character still need to be able to function in a group somehow”, because ultimately dnd is a story you all tell together, and the narrative is about the group.
All true. But an inherent difficulty of a Drow working with an adventuring group is thier extreme arrogance , based on thier cultural superiority complex/ xenophobia, and thier (mostly) Chaotic Evil alignment..
Most Underdark Drow view non- Drow as " iblith " - meaning " scum or filth "..
That's the problem with Lolth's drow though... *they ARE cartoon villains.* They canonically backstabbed each other so much that big L herself had to tell them to knock it off before they all killed themselves. They literally kill each other in the womb for Moradin's sake! If going by that lore, having a lolthite drow in the party would be a disaster even for an all-evil party.
That said, I think evil groups in general can definitely work out if everyone is morally compatible and not played like brain-dead societal rejects. The Phantom Troupe from the anime Hunter x Hunter is a good example of a villain group that is able to function well together.
So in a Warhammer nutshell the Drow are pretty much what happens when you mix Dark Elder Slaanesh and Tzeench all rolled into one with a little bit of spiders to go with it so all in all great video friend as always.
There are not like any of this more closer he the Druchii in Warhammer Fantasy if anything
@@Troupe_Master Even the Druchii aren't as evil (which is a really weird thing to say). They could still have love and equals (granted such things should be kept secret in case your rivals try and use it against you). The Cythari also don't demand the murder of their own followers.
The dark Eldar laugh at the drow. Drow attempt to assassinate each other for lolth favor, in dark Eldar society its a common decency.
@@FinalTroop or worse if you happen to be the poor sucker who got the attention of a homunculus... especially Urien Rakarth *shudders*
@@adambielen8996Lol druchii are brain rot evil and irredeemable, drow are much better written
Brings me back to when I was playing a skeleton sorcerer [18th level] in 3.5 and our group just got finished fighting a drow high priestess and her helpers to save some captives from becoming thr next sacrifice. DM told me to make a perception check then said I was the only one that noticed the giant spider shadow with smirking lips.
Skeleton status: *rattled*
That's such a cool scene, kudos to the DM
Lolth is one of my top five deities in D&D so thanks for the video!
All of the demons and devils i needed are on your channel. Please keep up the work on this deep dive lore
Thanks to this video, you gave me a new concept for a character when you started to speak about Eilistraee at the end. A Drow Barbarian who worship Eilistraee, and the Drow's rage is not actually a rage, it's them getting into the dance of their own rhythm. Every time they take half damage, it's because it barely scraped them rather than them just taking it like other Barbarians.
That's a cool idea, a barbarian who's rage is more like a bladesinger's dance than an actual rage.
Hah, my Drow male is on the surface and is very much an old school Drow. He's cunning, sly, snarky, and has a serious superiority complex. Lawful evil in a group of good-aligned adventurers, he pulls the lever that the rest of the party can't bear to touch.
Since when are Drow Elves ever lawfull ? Sure, they're almost always Evil, and almost always Chaotic. Like thier Diety, Lloth the Spider Queen.
In the 5 E DnD system, I play a chaotic nuetral - Drow elf - Favored Soul Sorcerer of Ellistrae..great roleplay options..only negatives are Light Sensitivity ( in the daylight) - and also the fact that most NPC's either run away from you in fear, or immediately draw steel and attack..
Try: " the dark elf trilogy..Sojourn..etc.." for more on Drizzt ..He's definitely Chaotic Good on Alignment, btw.
Characters like Artemis Entreri the assassin are Nuetral Evil ; Jarlaxle is a typical Chaotic Evil Drow elf with Nuetral tendencies..
@@aaronhumphrey2009 Because while he is quite a scumbag, he follows a very strict and quirky 'code of ethics' that dictates how he behaves. He's on the surface now, and he has to have some kind of presentable facade so that he's not skewered before he can screw you over. XD
If you read this description of LE, you've pretty much met my charming conman.
easydamus.com/lawfulevil.html
Drows are selected for wickedness, cunning and so on, because of the religion/society created by Lolth.
But being inherently chaotic they cannot stay the same for long.
Every newborn can be different, in one way or another, from their parents.
Some will be eviler some will be better.
This means the insecurity of Lolth is never ending.
And because she admires betrayal, she can never, really get rid of Eilistraee, because she betrayed her own mother.
Huh, Lolth reminds me a lot of Molag Bal from the Elder Scrolls. Her basic psychology is to abuse others to sate her fundamental insecurity. A lot of what you described is basically what abusive people do in their intimate relationships. Dependency and dominance through unpredictability and fear tactics are pretty common.
And hell hath no fury like a dark elf scorned..Female drow are encouraged to become priestesses of Lloth and become expert torturers and poisoners as they murder thier way up the ranks..
@@aaronhumphrey2009 Well, this isn't so much about vengeance as it is about insecurity amongst the entitled. That's typically how abusive psychology comes about in real life, and you could say that Lolth has the deific form of that.
This is why abusive personalities very frequently turn up in men IRL, because they feel like society expects them to be powerful and they feel the need to bully and control others if they feel insecure in that power.
It comes up occasionally in women too, but often in women who also have reasons to feel more powerful than they are. Lolth is a god, so the insecurity complex she must have must be enormous.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 The only god I believe is more unsecure of himself than Lolth must be Mellifluer.
@@painlord2k After reading a quick intro into Mellifleur I gotta say he's got quite the target on his back lol
Surprised the Cult of Vhaerun wasn't mentioned. Still good video.
I came to mention this.
My father played a follower of Vhaerun (beastmaster/ necromancer later). I read through a lot of lore to know him and the Drow.... This is one video I feel that's lacking information compared to so many that really are comprehensive
Lett us not Speak of the The Masked Lord. LOL
Vhaeraun is my second favourite Drow God right underneath Kiaransalee!
It is interesting if you think about Drizzit, the most famous good drow, and his character flaws. They are almost exactly as you listed in this video.
Drizzit is prideful, prone to anger, he enjoys combat, and he always welcome good challenges.
He doesn't often feel sympathy for the adversary he kills, when he does, it is more of a logical "maybe they are redeemable" , not "I feel bad because he suffered/died".
He needs to constantly reminds himself that his companion are his equal, yet he still ignores their opinions and strikes out on his own all the time. (at least in the first few books)
He even has that constant anger towards himself for "not doing good enough", and seems to never be able to truly settle down.
well the books heavily imply that drizzt is a chosen of, and protected by, lolth. he is the greatest agent of chaos, change and destruction in all of drow history. by sending her minions against him and protecting him she tested the drow and the conflict led to a total revolution in the stale menzoberranzan
That still doesn't mean these traits are innate or biological. He was raised in Menzoberranzan after all.
Drizzt prideful and prone to anger? I've read all books up untill 2020 and I can't remember when he got angry. And he can't settle down because he just can't stand by all the evil that's going on. He decided to die trying making the world better.
Perhaps you have not read the R A Salvatore books on Drizzt . He's far more empathetic than you state..
Your description would be more accurate for Artemis Entreri, the ruthless human assassin that hunts Drizzt. Cunning, and implacable..quite willing and able to kill anyone in his path..
He even goes to to the UnderDark to find Breagan D' Erth , to negotiate with Jarlaxle ( a Drow Rogue/ Sorcerer ) for an alliance to track down and kill Drizzt.
@@igormorais4192 That makes sense. She lets one Drow be good to give the Drow a enemy. To reinforce why they need to be tested.
The existence of the followers of Ellistrae I think proves that Drow are capable of free will and goodness.
The whole "Just because they are ambitious, prideful, self-aggrandizing, quick to anger and most of all feel superior to everyone else does not mean that they are evil" is very interesting.
You can have a Drow with all of those traits to the nth degree and still have a devout follower of Eilistraee.
They are ambitious - To free Drow from Lolth
They are prideful - Of their willpower to not just reject, but fight against Lolth
They are self-aggrandizing - Because they must always be a shining example of what a Drow can enjoy on the surface
They are quick to anger - When they see a sentient being in chains
They feel superior to everyone else - Because who wouldn't when your morals are antithetical to those you fight?
It's basically Seto Kaiba
stop trying to.make excuses for 'good' drow. Embrace drow as they are. the way you and 9000 others are talking , you'd think eilistraee was a greater deity. reality check, she's not.
@@t2av159 . . . Where is it that I said Eilistraee is a greater deity? She's a lesser one. And I love her all the more for it. Good Drow are few and far between, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Also, please learn how to actually write before you make another equally poor point.
Ambitious about freeing their people from Lolth? You're describing clerics of Vhaerraun, not clerics of Eilistraee. She's not very active on that front.... you're thinking of her brother, the God of Drow Opposed to the Spider Queen's Matriarchy. Literally what he is God of. And Surface Drow. lol
Drizzt is a Drow. He is the strongest of her people; he is tested and wins almost every time. He never asks for help from Lolth. He is a good Drow and Lolth should favor him.
Zin Carla was enacted to hunt him down but only succeeded in freeing him from the illithids. In asking for Zin Carla, Malice called for her own destruction.
Makes me want to write that into my home game, hilarious twist. Could incorporate the other drow that wizards is bringing out.
I read the novels. She is straight up evil, he isn't. So he wouldn't receive any favor, no matter how strong he is. And he actively goes against worshipping her, so there's that.
Oh yes, totally. I agree, but what I was saying was to make all of her villainy a deception.
This was actually hinted at a few times in the books, and I think even in other series like War of the Spider Queen as well
If you actually want to learn About the drow, read the Drow Trilology and the follow on books etc. Best books ever. Wrote years ago, but gives you an actual perspective of drow society, Lothe and etc.
Do you mean "The Drizzt Trilogy?"
@@quantumman555 I think the War of the Spider Queen gives a good insight into the Drow. Especially if you combine it with the Dark Elf Trilogy.
A whole video on Lolth and the drow without mentioning Drizzt once. I am surprised.
I have a pair of Drow OCs that I play for dnd and they're a sort of psychological experiment of nature vs nurture and the different ways that two different people might respond to the same life circumstances. This video of yours not only confirmed a lot about them for me, but gave me so much insight too! Drow as a species in DnD are my favorite, they are so complex and interesting. I do believe they can be good, but I also think that being good in spite of instinct or hardship makes a characters heart even more amazing! No body in real life is perfect, so good drow are just a really overt representation of that, to me.
Of my PCs, one sister channels her anger and loneliness into battle and survival- she leaves the basement she's raised in with her sister and joins the thieves guild. Becoming an adventurer and assassin. She's very good at what she does and learns to love her friends with a fierce loyalty- even though it means she literally kills for them which isn't always "good".
The other sister is proud of herself for surviving their difficult upbringing, and proud of being a drow. She grows resentment for others and for her sister for leaving, and desires power and strength. That desire for power, and her pride, combine into that drow sense of superiority that you described. She becomes extremely selfish and dominating. Ultimately sacrificing her own parents when she sees no other route to becoming stronger. In the world as an adventurer, she's left home because there was nothing left there for her. She's extremely manipulative and charismatic, and Ultimately has dreams of usurping Lolth, and raising a drow city in the surface world "where they belong" as a pillar of strength among the all other races.
Fantastic characters ! You've obviously done your homework. I'm trying out a Drow Favored Soul of Ellistrae / Sorcerer.
Recently, he single-handedly saved the whole party from a TPK..and had to watch over all of them because they've been knocked out for hours..
So he snipped a bit of hair from each PC ( while they're out ), and wove a second symbol to Ellistrae out of them.
@@aaronhumphrey2009 Thank you That! They are my longest running DnD PCs. Based heavily on drow lore, and my own experiences, with DnD magic and some psychology thrown in. Anyway, yours sounds like a really fun character!! I've not yet had a character that worships Elistrae but she's amazing.
I was just researching Lolth xD
It's the second time he uploaded something right on time for me xD
Thanks!
I literally just started playing a paladin of eilistraee
so I can definitely use some stuff in this for fluff
Penalty to all armor! :D
how fking original....
@@t2av159why is it bad for people to play a character they want to play, I don’t see the harm
The amount of detailing you've put is amazing, gotta appreciate your love for DnD lore
Awesome video! Drow psychology is soo interesting & difficult to create congruent characters for. This amalgamation of insight is much appreciated.
I plan on playing a drow trickery, war, or twilight cleric or Paladin of the Spider Queen. Good timing!
I say go for twilight. They look awesome I have yet to play one but really want to in the next campaign I play in. Hope it all goes well for you, whatever you choose should be fun.
Not sure Twilight cleric fits so well for Lolth, a lot of the abilities and spells are about helping others, which seems like something Lolth wouldn’t want. But twilight cleric is very powerful and good
Why not Drow Death cleric tho?
Eilistraee is really the only Drow deity who would grant the Twilight domain. It exists to REDUCE fear, not something the Dark Seldarine are exactly known for.
What about Ambition or Zeal domains from the "Plane-shift Amonkhet" Magic Expantion , seem right down to the point , otherwise Trickery or Death Domain would be the most aligned with Lolth nature
Hail, Queen of Spiders!🕸️🕷️👑🎲 Hail, Mr Rhexx!
Goddes of chaos!
I ran an underdark campaign to separate Aurneshee (CNG, Ysgard) from lolth and creating a drow trinity (the holy mother, daughter and son) which sets off drow civil war. Lolth doesn't die, because Corellon sends Shevarash to his doom, where he believes he is gonna finish her but finds Corellon is no behind him and that his hatred leaves him vulnerable... and lolth devours him to regain a divine elven core. (Causing his most loyal church followers immediately change to driders in a night of horrors.) It was a fun campaign, and I used my own city that is greatly different from other drow cities.
Cool ! Perhaps Lloths Silence ( a recent period of time where she literally fell into a coma in her DemonWeb Pits ; and her Priestesses recieved no magic or spells from her) could provide more rich campaign material/ opportunities..
@@aaronhumphrey2009 lolth had big plans for the silence, in the Canon she was going to separate her demonweb from the abyss proper and become a greater goddess. But that was 4th edition when they (wotc) took a big crap all over the outer planes, the blood war, and everything that made "Planescape" one if the most beloved campaign settings.
Now apperpantly she got to be a greater God but didn't escape the abyss like she wanted to. So in out of the abyss adventure 5th edition she tricks the demon princes out of the abyss so she can steal it all. It doesn't work and they get sent back home by adventurers.
However (and this is what now interests me) In the novel series she's grown distant from her yochol and is not giving them directions.
In my campaign I had many yochol betray lolth and became hand maidens for Aurenshee. They were no longer slime but became beautiful onyx porcelian dolls with filigree wings of mythril or adamatium with gemstones for deeds completed.
In your campaign, is Araushnee a separate deity altogether or is she Lolth's supressed "good side"? Sounds like Corellon was a jerk for leaving Shevarash high and dry. Did he really expect a demigod to beat an intermediate/greater goddess in her own domain?
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 yes lolth starts as a separate entity from the abyss and was a slime lower than ghanduar(mispelled). She infects Aurenshee but can't overcome here until Corellon breaks her heart by questioning her fidelity (in regards to vhearun being his son, I know it's misspelled not gonna look it up.) Once lolth bypasses her heart she gains free reign over the body, it isn't until later that Corellon realizes that it was his hand that delivered his wife to lolth, and he believe her lost for ever. She existed in a state of suspended torment in lolths gut, and could not be safely separated until lolth became a greater power. Lolth could not be a goddess with a divine core, she would reverts back to demon lord. Which is why I gave her the black archer who's been falling into evil fast enough all by himself.
Correllon was warned by the neutral overgod that elves were too OP and other mortal races could not safely exist with the elves being so perfect. He refused to nerf them, and that'd when they tricked him to give his wife over to lolth. So the race would be split and in balanced conflict forever. Correlon hoped the archer could overcome a weakened lolth but also accepted that it didn't matter if he did or not, the race had to remain sundered. This is the reason for his melancholy that all elves feel that he keeps a distance from them.
I've always enjoyed the argument of nature vs nurture in Drow society, something that's highlighted pretty well in the R.A. Salvatore Drizzt novels.
In short, it's never nature or nurture; but nature AND nurture. Everyone has innate traits and personalities in them that they gravitate toward, but there are also environmental influences in the culture that can guide those traits into other directions, or strengthen natural tendencies. You can be a product of your culture, but if your inherent traits are strong enough you can be the black sheep of it.
Drizzt is my favorite. Think I have most of the books related to him. The loner, even around his friends. I designed characters around his personality. Some of my family and friends wanted me publish some of my stories but I didn't want to infringe on Salvatore's creativity and copy rights. Granted my characters had their unique backgrounds and styles.
@@blakdragon2202 Publish it. Its the same as Superman stories. You can't copy the character or names, but you can copy the idea (ex. Alien from a dying planet sent to earth with the powers of super-strength, flight, and maybe lasers). But at one point you will have to be legally checked, pretty sure you can't say the word Drow but Dark Elf sounds fine.
@@TheCandyGamingChannel I am a strange person, I don't write stories and poems for money nor fame. It is something I do not to keep my head busy plus I have to be in a certain mood to write them. I normally don't keep any of them.
Personally , i think Drow have a BIG natural predisposition to evil , after an eternity under Lolth heel they are bound to be changed and the evilness of her seep into them
But they still can take the good path if raised outside this enviorement , but still have a natural affinity to evil
@@ramondelgado4927 that mold was broken a long time ago. But as DM you can design them as you please.
Drow are quickly becoming my favorite. Mainly to be a Drow breaking tradition. Just wish we got more current information that isn't focused on Drizz.
Right now working on a Male Sword Dancer of Eilistraee, even making a heroforge miniture.
This is a really interesting idea given the tradition of female dominance in Lolth's drow society. If I recall, the original (but later changed) tradition of Sword Dancers being female only in Elistraee's write up might suggest a subconcious nod to this side of drow society, one that the followers of the goddess in question have created themselves rather than been given by their goddess. Those trying to embrace the new might well find themselves in an odd place where they are struggling with a subconscious leftover of the very society they have rebelled against and seeing something within themselves that they would have to work through. Even more interesting might be if it isn't a case of natural talent overruling tradition but of the character's determination to achieve in spite of repeated "failures" and triumph through strength of heart and staying true to one's heart.
Lloth probably keeps the drow fighting each other as self-preservation. The dark elves are enough of a threat that if they try to expand too aggressively especially if that included allying with things like demons or ilithids, they would attract the attention of enough goodly forces that they might get wiped out. So she keeps them fighting each other
Nah, that’s not why and they’re too many and too strong to just get wiped out like that. If elves haven’t, they especially won’t as they’re murder tougher than surface elves. It’s to keep them in check and make sure their focus is rivalry between themselves so that they won’t ever think about peace and alliance and then retaliate against Lolth
I now get the feeling that Drow are only evil because someone had a kink and couldn't justify their actions as chaotic good
Ask not what Lolth can do for you, but what you can do for Lolth.
I would love to see what kind of stuff you can dig up and find out more about on the LeShay
I've been waiting for a drow/lolth video and it's better than i expected, thank you very much
I feel like these videos are always so timely. I just started dming "out of the abyss."
Would love to hear more about the Drow, also would love to hear more about Eilistraee vs the other Drow gods.
My favorite race Drow, and My two Fav Drow deities. Love this bro. And as always I love you bring up the full lore from when i started playing
I swear, he always makes videos with the right timing! I’m making my second drow character, this time a spider and the only references I’ve had were the dritzz books, which I wasn’t very far in.
If a DM is running a Drow campaign, the mortality rate should be around 80% if it's done right.
🙂👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yup
Great video! I love the Dark Seldarine, they're the second most interesting group of higher beings in the Forgotten Realms/D&D after the Archdevils for me. I especially love Vhaeraun as a kind of middle ground between Lolth and Eilistraee, where he is evil but his tenets would make for a less evil/oppressive drow society, and also likely a more successful one. Hope to have you cover him one day!
Drow society is really interesting, I don't know if it's cannon (I believe it's) but the "War of the Spider Queen" books are really good at showing how it works and why it works, in case anyone wants to know more. Plus, the story will hook you up!
Eilistraee is best Goddess. I created a magic item, Eilistraee's Music Box, in my campaign. If opened it forces all those within earshot to start dancing with their weapons (swordplay as a dance). Perhaps even naked :P.
There is the Drow (the worshippers of Lolth)
There are the free Drow, most of which are the ones rescued by Lolth's Daughter Eilistraee
Yup, though the majority of the drow are lolths if i am not mistaken. Though too bad that is considered racist for some reason (or one of the reasons at least)
Yeah theres like maybe 50 of them
I'd also make a distinction between drow and dark elves. Whereas the latter refers to elves with dark skin, the former is a derivative from the old Elvish _dhaeraow_ meaning traitor. However, the two words frequently are used interchangeably, especially because when dark elves are heard of, it's almost exclusively the evil sort that has made an appearance.
This, however, is an incorrect usage, because not all dark elves (the descendants of the Ilythiiri) are traitorous.
@@Robidu1973 and how is the "New" lore going to explain the black skin and white hair? The original lore it was the mark of being banned from Arvandor
@@delmann8041 The point is, _all_ Ilythiiri have been cursed that way (according to the sourcebooks), however, I dare say that not all of them have been corrupted by evil forces. That's why, although all of them have black skin and white hair, you cannot label everyone from that group as traitors.
This twist also leaves room for some interesting implications.
I like this series. COmbination of your voice, good intonation, cool images and especcailly skipping all unnecasary part smakes it amazing. It is much faster then looking myself through manuals. Keep it up!
Another great video another request for dwarves and magic runes please.
I also recommend supporting we got almost all the Kickstarter goals.
I love your content I have actually started making characters/npcs alike for my friends and my campaign based on the info you provide. Such as one of my most recent characters is a drow cleric who follows Eilistraee. Thank you for all of you info and keep up the work
6:38 It gets a bit more complicated when you consider the values of Tempus, the God of war. 'Due to its tendency to have followers and priests on both sides of any engagement, the church of Tempus had no central authority that might support one side or the other exclusively. Within a given temple or order, however, there was a strict hierarchy and chain of command.' That seems strangely akin to the drow - one deity is worshipped, but there is no actual 'central authority', that might support one side or the other.
In the case of the drow, each house is left to its own means to survive. For the followers of Tempus, it's entirely plausible that two opposing armies (both of whom worship Tempus), might find themselves at war with each other, and Tempus is quite happy to let it happen.... letting his own followers fight against each other, with the strongest prevailing. That doesn't seem much different from the drow, who often fight amongst each other, with one house trying to destroy another for greater power.
One interesting point from Bob Salvatore’s work (which is where so much of what we know of the Drow comes from):
The Drow of Menzobarranzan believe Drizzt Do’Urden to be the favoured of Lloth.
Having played a male surface walking Drow(born in Drow society, allied with a good aligned deity, not Eilistraee) I can tell you my experience;
1) He was a passive aggressive asshole, as you would expect a Drow to be as a surface walker. He fallowed the rules but didn't need to be kind about anything.
2) He absolutely saw the other party members as tools and kept everything that wasn't explicitly necessary to share a secret.
3) After entering the surface, he never spoke the name "Lolth". He always said "Araushnee" to mock her because he knew he was, to a degree, protected from her reach.
4) Drow only have 1 *real* rule; Don't get caught. All other "rules" are contingent on blame so if you can either shift the blame, avoid the suspicion or pin the blame on someone else then no other rules apply.
5) Drow "culture" is just feminist North Korea.
He was a super fun character to play though.
Oh man I cannot wait til the next one! Your videos have taught me SO much about D&D cannon
They can't be innately evil, because we know that Eilistraee exists.
She is divine and predate the drow as a race , they have spend so much time under Lolth heel they have change from the original elves and the evilness have seep into them as MrRhexx said , any deviation is the exeption rather than the rule , much like Wizard LizardFolk
Of couse Wokies Of The Coast have retcon this making it seem like Drow are 50-50 in the evil and good scale and thet they have existen since the begining , making Elistree sacrifice and works pretty much almost meaningless at this point
But hey , cant have anything impliying anything about anything this days..............at this point im just waiting for them to tell Lolth is not evil but misundertood and a victim of the system
They're evil because they live in a system that values that. Imagine being control by a goddess who rule like a totalitarian dictator and has eyes everywhere. I'm not saying that they're 50%\50, what I am saying is that they're influenced by the outside. If a born Drow were raised as a baby in Mount Celestia they would be good.
Different from the orcs, who are magically bound by their good and this make them evil.
In the video he states that Drow still have genetic mental hang ups.
Look at Drizzt, the character that made the Drow so popular. He has Ego issues while being Chaotic Good. He still has the "I am the Best" the few times he has lost in combat were huge mental blows. Look at all his fights with Artemis. They rocked his Psyche. A mere human fought him to a stand still. He couldn't accept that.
To expand upon this, the Drow of Faerun's lore may be dictated however someone wants but the fact of the matter is that Ed Greenwoods world lore was full of incest and martial race ideology. He wasn't a very enlightened forward thinking man. Just like Tolkein, who grew up around a time where the idea of martial people were a real belief. Obviously that's racist as fuck, and not how people work in the slightest. Sentient creatures are not so one dimensional to be born evil, and anyone that introduces this is just a shit writer imo. Even the idea of alignment is idiotic.
MrRhexx: Mentions Ellistraee during a Lloth video
Lloth: 'So you have chosen death.'
Might be forgetting something, but aren't there also half shadow dragon half Drow out there looking to usurp Lolth?
Might be mixing that up with something though.
Yeah he did a video on it a while back.
There were, I think they got completely wiped out in some of the novels.
Oh drow society is so much fun! I love the interlocking webs on intrigue and how ruthless they are
In my world, most Drow were pushed out of the Underdark by the Mind Flayers. Now living on the surface they follow Elistri. This happened about 160 years prior to the latest campaign.
The music at 12:00... it's so haunting, it's what I'd probably hear in lolth's presence
I love how dnd plays with these concepts of "god that acts like a dick towards their """followers""" "
The ice maiden was the other one that made me go "huh... I guess that is *one* way to keep your base strong if you can't offer cool powers or represent something people will resonate with!"
Talona is omg those to, she creates plagues just so enough people pray to her. She's on the brink of ranking down so we might get some big power plays in the future.
I mean complete immunity to cold sounds pretty good I would love to be able to strut around naked during a blizzard and you know summon winter storms
Have you never heard of real world demon worship?
Umberlee, literally 'The Bitch Queen', drowning one son in a family of sailors just so the family will forever offer tribute to her to spare the others.
Every time I get a notification from your channel, I immediately start watching, or if that’s not possible, immediately start planning to set time aside for watching it - thank you for making such enthusiastic, interesting and high quality content on D&D
I’d also love to hear your opinions on drow redemption
Pleeeeeease do all the Out of the Abyss demon lords!!!!
Yes
I really just need orcus. He's my favorite!!!
25:40 there's actually a group of pacifist anti-gruumsh orcs in canon who are lawful good & even live slightly longer than normal orcs
Praise Lolth! The Spider Queen is my favorite Deity. The Drow are my favorite people ever in D&D. I fell in love with the Dark Elves back in AD&D. Selective Breeding Elves that have an agenda that does not involve protecting a tree. I love those Drow!
I had a Cleric/Fighter of Eilistraee, CG character who lived in a forested area in a small Drow community, who were, as we took a cue from Elfquest, a group of 'Wolf Riders' so she had a companion Wolf. If it re-made this character today in 5e, it would most likely be a Ranger/Cleric or a Ranger/Druid if I could make it NG maybe. I'd have to give it though.
I'd love to get a shirt but unfortunately I think it would be a bit crass to wear those around. Wonderful designs none the less!
Okay…I don’t need any new shirts, but man do I want these shirts! These art designs are amazing!!!
lolth
lmaoth even
This comes within a gnat's whisker of the perfection of your kobold vid, and I suspect that it's because it'll take 2 more vids to get there. Bravo. Thanks
So, I know Ghaunadaur has a much wider range and is classified as a Greater Deity, if so why does he include himself in the Dark Seladrine?
Yeah, he's the weirdest of the bunch. Like how does a slime god become associates with a bunch of elves? Also there's a lot of discussion over wether or not him and Juubilex are one in the same.
@@thepopulargirl1784 probably part of his infinite and unknowable scheme that he's been plotting since before the birth of the multiverse.
that or he's just an evil and crazy deity and if he was anywhere else the gods might try to do something about it and where's a better place for a crazy evil god to hide than the Dark Seladrine?
He really doesn't belong there..Lloth actively discourages worshipping an other 'god ' except her..she can and does make alliances with other Powers, but Always takes the Queen's Share..trying to keep her children Vaerhaun and Ellistrae down as lessor dieties..
The only reason Ghaunadaur has any relation with the Dark Seldarine is because of the drow cultists who worship him to spite Lolth. Whatever its origins, Ghanadaur is definitely not an exiled member of the Seldarine nor an ascended drow like Kiaransalee.
I appreciate this video! I just started playing Baldur's Gate 3 and the lore behind all of these creatures is so fascinating!
Thank you!
I feel the best way to explain drow behavior as a whole is to treat them like the vampires from Vampire the Masquerade. The prevailing canon of that game setting states that many of the bloodlines all descend from Cain and bear his curse. Instead of breeding as the main means of creating more vampires, they sire and embrace new ones. Arushnee/Lolth is their Cain and carry her sin. A HUGE thing about the elven origin stories is that they are literally and actually born of Correllon's blood. Same as the orcs from Gruumsh. The precursors to the drow had Arushnee's blood so her punishment befell her people including Eilistraee (spelling?) as a result. Oops.
Good and rogue drow? Worshipping Lolth sucks and getting away from her through sheer will, skill, and dumb luck is possible. I imagine most surface drow actually being atheist, in a sense of "f*** all you gods"
Not so. Most humanoid or other intelligent beings in D&D are at the very least polytheistic in that they believe gods exist and will pay lip service to one or more simply because it is well known what happens to the "Faithless" when they die- they end up as part of the wall surrounding the central part of the Outer Planes, where their souls are slowly dissolved into the energy of the plane itself, and all their individuality and self-determination, etc fade and they eventually are destroyed completely by becoming fused into the wall. It's literally the worst fate of any soul, to be obliterated rather than ascend to an Upper plane or to be condemned to one of the Lower planes.
Lolth encounter in a campaign of mine
Lolth:"you have dishonored me"
Drow sorcerer party member:"well no sh!t Sherlock, how'd you figure that out?"
Half orc arbarian:"yeah, we are literally fighting against you"
Lolth:"you shall be tested, trial by spiders or you can betray your friends choose"
Drow sorcerer:"or...my ally with the dagger made to kill you could stab your neck"
Lolth:"what?"
Drow rogue:"SURPRISED BITCH"
lolth:"you traitorous peace of sh-" *dies instantly by being decapitated*
Changeling rogue:"nah, i just took that form to- oh wait your dead you cannot hear me"
Seeing an Elistrae shirt *blessed* , only for 2 weeks... *cursed*
. . . And this is why I prefer Eilistraee. Cheers mate and thanks for the informative video, can’t wait for part 2.
Anyone else here because of Minthara?
yep
No
Well sort of
Minthy rules
Mayhaps
Homebrewing a dnd campaign around drow encounters and the underdark. Thanks for making this!
Aw yeah! I love these videos!
I loved the novel 'Evermeet Island of Elves' by Elaine Cunningham. Had chapters devoted to Lolth's fall from grace in the elven pantheon, back when her name was Araushnee 'elven goddess of artisans & destiny'
My favorite god in dnd
Eliastree
Just started BG3 and was mezmorized by how beautiful Drow characters were so i had to make my main character a Drow. And now i know a lot more and im happy for it :) Went with the non Lolth's goddess too, the good one.
Same
There is only Lolth's Drow...
i knooow but I needed a way to differentiate this video from the full Drow video I will make in the future lol
There is drow that follows the best goddess
@@tobizerker4153 Fake news
The Lolth shirt look awesome
I play now a custom origin male drow sorcerer. He exited from the underdark because of his family.
Once the Von Galliirin clan was a small province set without magic users. Over time, it grew large and holds major power over the underdark. My character Elther Von Galliirin, was the first born and after that he got twin sisters. Known only as the older brother. He was only kept alive until adulthood to be married off to some noble, spending his time training in combat and studying. Over time he leaned of his liniege of demonic magic and left for the surface world. He wanders the land hunting for undead for coin, and looking for an assasin. All that he send haven’t returned from his send mission to kill his family. Looking for artefacts and slaves to send to the underdark and back to his family, trying to win aproval.
The best part is that he is very handsome, and gets realy uncomfortable when girls try to seduce him. Calling it terrible luck with woman.
The matron mother of her city has a really good connection with lolth