Were KISS Scared to Record Rock And Roll Over? Do You Care? On Three Sides of the Coin
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Visit www.ThreeSidesO... and join the conversation. Three Sides of the Coin is a KISS talk show featuring Michael Brandvold, Mitch Lafon and Tommy Sommers.
In episode 33, July 23, 2013, we talk about a recent interview Paul Stanley did with Geoff Barton of Classic Rock Magazine. "We were scared to record Destroyer follow-up". www.classicrock... The Starchild says: "Quite honestly, we were chickenshit. We were scared of where we had gone with Destroyer. We'd traded off the rawness of Kiss for something more cinematic. Bob Ezrin was a visionary. Without him, we were back to creating within our own boundaries. Rock And Roll Over was our 180-degree turn to get back to what the band sounded like live. It wasn't rocket science."
Michael Brandvold launched the 5th website on the internet devoted to KISS, KISS Otaku. He went on the build, launch and maintain Kissonline.com KISS' official website. Mitch Lafon, a renowned rock journalist, first interviewed Gene Simmons in 1980 and has since interviewed nearly all members of KISS, many more than once. He produced and released a Ace Frehley tribute CD. Tommy Sommers, a successful residential real estate agent in the Minneapolis St. Paul metro area, has been a fan since 1976 and has seen them in concert dozens of times. He spent many years on the record show circuit selling memorabilia and meeting many KISS fans.
It's only our opinion... it's neither right nor wrong.
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Three Sides Of The Coin is unofficial & unsanctioned and has no affiliation with the band KISS.
Rock And Roll Over in my opinion in Kiss best record.. My favorite.. I think Eddie Kramer got the best out of Kiss than any other producer.... Their early demo was better than Kiss record that was produced by Kenny Kerner and Richie Wise... Alive, Rock and Roll over, Love Gun, Ace solo album.. The proof is in the pudding!! Paul threw Eddie under the bus....plus Eddie got the best out of Ace.. I don't understand why Paul threw Eddie under the bus... We can thank the late Sean Delaney cause he co- wrote most of the material off rock and roll over.. My favorite record !!
Ditto!
+Thesnag69 Your facts are very incorrect. Delaney helped co-write two songs with Stanley. Simmons wrote more material for RnRO than anyone else.
Thesnag69 fo sho
Personally, RARO is my favorite KISS album. I think for Paul to throw Eddie under the bus is bullshit because the band was so crazy about the production of the original demo in 1973 and mix that with the success of Alive. RARO is an extension of the first three albums but with better production. It doesn't necessarily include better songs than the first three albums (tho I'll argue any day that Paul's songs and Dr Love are some of the best ever in KISStory), but the production makes it a significantly stronger album than the first three. Destroyer is a huge change from the KISS formula (and often regarded as their best album), but RARO brings back the simplicity of the first three album but with a much better sound.
Rock and roll over best studio album tops! so why question it! Come on!
It's fair to say "Beth" saved "Destroyer" from becoming a disappointment sales-wise. It's curious to think what would of happened to Kiss if "Beth" was not released....interesting.
In Kiss Behind the Mask Paul was really furious at Eddie because he wanted Peter to sing 2 songs that Paul wrote for Love Gun.Kramer stated the songs would fit much better for Peter because the 2 songs were a throwback sound to them.I believe they were Then She Kissed Me and Tomorrow and Tonite.Kramer really favored Ace and Peter more also and he went on to do Ace's 78 solo album which is amazing
I loved Eddie with KISS. I think Ezrin's arrangements suited Alice Cooper alot better.
Also had to add that "Baby Driver" had some heavy riffing, even if the lyrics were corny as hell.
Paul possibly grew to dislike Eddie Kramer after Kramer revealed just how doctored 'Kiss Alive' actually was.
For years prior to that, Gene and Paul both insisted it was a truly live, pure, virtually un-retouched album. I still have old magazines where they're spouting that shit. Paul even said in one interview from the 90's that they would have liked to have done some overdubs on 'Alive' but they didn't have the money for it!
Hey guys,
First I wanna say I love your show!!!!
Second I totally agree Rock n Roll over was an awesome album, which personally like way better than Destroyer.
Third Peter Criss was awesome drummer in the early days, It took him writting those bizarre drum patterens for Gene and Paul have someone come along and mimic, same with Aces guitar parts!!!!! Im talking 73-78 for both members. Mind you, I like Kulick,Singer,Thayer,Carr & Fig as well.
My first kiss conert was revenge 1992.....
Well said Mitch. If Paul thinks RRO comes up short, then he has no business producing. I will take an under performing Eddie Kramer any day over Paul.
Btw, has Mike or Tommy ever said to you, "Listen Mitch, I got news"???
Spike Harliln I dunno, Animalize is heavy. The 80's sounding drums
I love Kiss. I love Paul Stanley. But he must be losing his mind, as well as his voice. Rock and Roll Over is THE BEST KISS album. Everyone loves Destroyer. Rock and Roll Over kills Destroyer. I Want You vs Sweet Pain??? Come on. Sure Detroit Rock City is one of the best Kiss songs..... Rock and Roll Over not only has excellent songs, but it sounds really fucking good too. Listen again, Paul. I do tend to totally disagree with Paul on most points though. They guy considers Love Gun to be his best song. From what I have heard Sean Delaney wrote at least half of it anyway..... Thanks for your thoughts guys. I always enjoy these shows.
Mitch you say something around the 16 minute mark regarding Paul being that interested in KISS anymore....or how he views KISS rather. Paul gives less of a shit than Gene really. Haven't you ever noticed that those guys literally only "like" their most successful stuff??? Look at their set list!!!!!! After seeing Paul's q&a from Indianapolis I'm convinced he really could care less about anything they have done that didn't put tons of money in his pocket. The only album I've ever heard him talk about that he thinks is good, but wasn't successful is Creatures. And it was successful in his mind because they were so lost at the time. A fan asks "will you ever play so and so live.....if you could play ANY songs on tour that you don't what would they be??" He answers with "We play all the songs that I like". Unbelievable. KISS are one of my very favorite bands....but I have no idea what to even make of them anymore. You guys wonder about the "cinematic" aspect of Destroyer and if Paul just sees Kiss as a cinematic type of thing rather than having musical integrity. I have to wonder if he cares about either these days.....or maybe he does still care (a little) about the stage show itself. I'm just glad I got to see Eric Carr with them....and hear "I Stole Your Love". God knows it will probably never be played again.....
Mitch you bring up fine points about Destroyer. And I agree with all of them. It is NOT the best Kiss album at all. Even though the production is shitty, I'll take the first one over Destroyer any day.
+Warren Hawk I don't love 'Destroyer' - thought it was awful. "God of Thunder" they were able to rescue 'live' and make it a metal machine. Rest of the record is boring. The best KISS albums are the first three studio records. After that, it was very hit and miss.
I don't think Paul Stanley is hating on the album. I think he is hating on the sound/production of the album. I think he is recalling how they felt when they made it and a band's perspective about the artistic success of a record is often different from the public's perception.
Probably not your type of music, but I once talked to the lead singer of the Fleshtones about their most popular album and the band hated the recording of it and don't often play many songs from it.
Or it is nothing more than Paul reflecting back and stating his personal feelings. Me thinks you read into it too deep.
I think "I want you" is a real stand out song on the album, and it's sound was before its time, I think that song would have went over big in the 80's during the non-make up years, probably would have been the biggest hit of theirs during the lick it up - crazy nights era... Although I'm glad it was on Rock n roll over , cause that tune makes that record so hot to me ! Paul f*ckin' rules !
Tommy, good comment on EJ goodbye yellow road, I got that and, All the young girls love Alice, still blows me away !
Peter admitted on Hooligan than he can't even spell his name, lol, no I like Peter and love that tune, just being funny.
Nobody in KISS is actually a fan of KISS, they can't be. They can love the band, but will never know what it is like to be a fan of the band. Well maybe Tommy would know. Gene likes stuff like the Beatles. Which really came out on Psycho Circus.
Have you listened to our other shows? We are clearly not stuck in the 70s... I love the 80s big time... Crazy Nights is one of their best albums. Not sure why this show made you think that other than we talked about RARO.
We never said they sucked.... I think he totally meant they were scared, that is what he said. But he seems to think Eddie didn't produce the album they wanted, Paul seems to have his doubts.
Destroyer to me is not overrated. If it weren't for that album, KISS could have died. It was great to get the Cinematic aspect of KISS. Rock And Roll Over was an amazing cornerstone for them right along with Destroyer.
Would I wear Mitch's PJs? No I'll go get my own. Haha
Thanks for another great show guys, and because of it, I can't wait for Paul's book if he is going to be this honest.
I find it interesting that fans think they know it is all love between them... when most have probably never talked to the band or Eddie.
I LOVE Destroyer. When I listen to it, I can feel the growth and transformation that is going on, the growing musical skill, the broadening of their scope. RNRO is "back to Rock an Roll", but the songwriting is on a higher level of RnR, to which they were elevated by Destroyer.
Interesting that no one considered this idea:
The songs fit the "image" of certain members for a reason. The guy creating the song is the same guy who created that image/character/makeup. It kinda makes sense that a guy like Ace who created the Spaceman makeup and character would also write songs in that vein as well. And I'm certainly not surprised that Paul....creator of the Starchild...would write love songs. He adopted that persona in the first place for a reason....it fit his personality.
I think Beth is huge with people (other than hardcore KISS fans who seem to like the faster stuff best) because it's so different from their harder songs and shows some really well done versatility. It's got a story line that you can totally visualize in your head and just feels very cozy. It's the first KISS song I wanted to play on guitar. It's kind of KISS's "Yesterday". Some hate The Beatle's "Yesterday" with a passion because it's slow and maudlin, but it's covered/loved by the masses.
hi guys!! congrats for all your shows from a french kiss fan for 30 years.
just one remark: paul statement about being scared shit while recording rock and roll over, has already been released in kiss biography in 2000, he said it years before this recent interview
i checked in the book and it's there, so paul was brutaly honest way back in 2000, but still your topic is relevant, and you always find very good topics
keep on
Love Gun is the best produced Kiss album and captures what Kiss should sound like better than any other album BUT what did Paul do for Sonic Boom ? He copied the RARO cover which totally sucked and as for the music he stated that he wanted to capture the sound of Kiss at their peak ie RARO , this was only 4 years ago, so Paul is severely contradicting himself or his participating in another piece of Kiss revisionism trying to justify the current lineup which btw totally sucks as well.
Do you think that maybe there are some sour grapes here because Eddie Kramer helped make Ace a success with his production of the solo album? After all, Kramer has done only Alive III with KISS since the Ace solo album. Next question...if Paul had such feelings about Kramer, why did he stick around for Love Gun and Alive II...and then you bring him back for Alive III? It makes no sense to me. Just a thought...
I remember when the KISS & Tell book came out and Ace fans literally freaked out. In fact, Gebert followed up the book with KISS & Tell MORE and printed all the hate mail. All the "lies" Gebert and McCadams spewed turns out to be absolute truth as confirmed by Wendy Moore, Gene Simmons, Ted Nugent, Peter Criss and ACE HIMSELF!
I'd love to hear interviews by the 3SoftC KISS EXPERTS with Wendy Moore, Gordon Gebert, Bob McCadams, John Harte, etc... the people with no filter, nothing to lose TRUTH.
IMO the best book out there is KISS & Tell by Gebert and McAdams. They have the most eye-opening entertaining stories about Ace and the band than almost all the other books combined. I think if it weren't for KISS & Tell, it wouldn't have opened the door for Peter's book to be so forthcoming.
I would love to hear a 3 Sides of the Coin interview with McCadams and/or Gebert. I think it would be fun to hear.
AF: I learned a lot about recording from Eddie Kramer and Bob Ezrin [producer of Kiss' Destroyer), techniques that I used recently on Anomaly. Thinking back, I could've been more reliable in those days, but the distractions of money and fame took over. Those records that Kramer did have stood the test of time, they still sound powerful. Frank Muñoz, the associate producer on Anomaly, has said that he thinks Love Gun is the best-sounding (sonically) Kiss record ever.
I do hope Paul's book doesn't disappoint. Gene and Ace's books didn't have a whole lot we didn't already know and left out stuff that should have been talked about. Peter's book is eye-opening and so far is the best even though he lets his hurt feelings over stuff from back then some time clouding his words. I would hope that if Paul is going to come clean about everything that he talks about why Eric Carr didn't get material on albums when Gene was admittedly phoning it in through the 80's.
KISS did re-record three Kramer produced songs for the KISSology CD enclosed in "Sonic Boom". "Calling Dr.Love", "Love Gun" & "Christine Sixteen". These were made with Eric S and Tommy,produced by KISS.These versions voided royalty payment when used in movies, commercials.Though interesting I still prefer the original tracks.KISS may have been trying to sound as close to the originals instead of a new version.
Great Show! I think it all comes down to Eddie Kramer several times the last 25 years in the press has said that Ace was the backbone of the group. And the " Former " Paul Stanley having personified a Onstage frontman with an extrordinary personality with enormous self confidence, charisma, sex God appeal, glamour personality etc. Also off stage to a certian extent- didn´t give a shit about comments ( Eddies Ace comment e.g.) like this. Too many words:- continues the next comment paragraph.
I have a reason that is really stupid for Destroyer being my favorite KISS album. My Dad had a friend who was working at a local radio station and he called my Dad and said he had some new records for him. One of them was an early release of Destroyer, as soon as he got to the station my mom called him and told him she was going into labor. He got to the hospital with a stack of records, including Destroyer as I was being born. So I literally grew up with Destroyer lol
Most of the songs they did for Wicked Lester were cover songs so I don't really agree with your statement. I think both Paul & Gene are just being musicians. You can record an album and be happy with it then the following year hate it. John Lennon before he was murdered gave an interview with Rolling Stone where he stated he wishes he could re-record ALL of his Beatles songs. He stated he preferred Elton Johns cover of "Lucy In the sky with Diamonds"! So I think this is what's happening w/ Paul.
We may never know the details of the Krammer/Stanley fued we can make these observations:Krammer is responsible for producing these classic KISS Albums(Alive,Alive II,RRO,Love Gun & Axe Frehley Solo. If they weren't happy with the sound,I can't see KISS repeating.Paul's produced records define what he thinks the KISS sound is.Don't hear from Krammer after Ace,also Casablanca crash,Aucoin gone.I'm betting something happened/said about that time period between KISS/Krammer.Irreparable.
No thanks to La-Fonz Boxers..but maybe that's a new line of marketing you guys should consider as part of the t-shirt package. R'R is a solid album in My Top 10 Kiss albums of all time, In terms of Paul look at his comments when albums come out he makes me laugh."This album has more balls than the world series".1985 Interview of Paul Stanley promoting Kiss Asylum. The album and cover were a disappointment and he needs to be more critical of his own producing than Eddie Kramer's in my opinion.
I think part of the reason why Stanley dislikes Kramer - Kramer lets Ace & Peter shine! .. RARO is widely regarded as one of Ace's best efforts - His solos are amazing.
Stanley criticizes Kramer, yet says Sonic Boom and Monster are great albums??
Don't get me wrong, I think some of the lyrics on RARO were average, but the production and music was 1st class - still my favorite KISS album!
Guys, reread Paul's comments in the BTM-biography and you'll notice that he isn't saying anything new. He mentions that they got 'scared' after Destroyer and that he likes the songs on RARO, but regrets that the recordings are 'so marginal' and mentions being constantly disappointed with the sound. And he further criticizes Kramer indirectly by saying that he hoped that RARO would sound as good as a Zeppelin album but that 'some of the people we worked with didn't have the capacity to do that'.
In my opinion Destroyer is Kiss best album by FAR! I think this because it was what gave the real definition to all their characters, Paul's voice sounded fantastic , God of Thunder really showed who Gene was for the first time on a studio album, and I don't like how people say Destroyer isn't as hard as their other stuff, DRC, King, Flaming Youth are all really heavy and define Kiss perfectly, and Shout it out Loud is IMO a WAY better anthum than RNR all night
Destroyer is a 5 stars album. God of Thunder is wonderful, what a great guitar riif, Bob did the perfect thing slowing down the tempo and giving to Gene to sing. Detroit Rock City is a rock and roll classic, that solo composed by Bob is so great. Flaming Youth , King of the Nightime World, Sweet Pain and Do You Love Me...what can I say...all great songs...classic album. My fav song in RROver is MR.Speed...I dont think Paul knows how good that song is...
I dont know if you all know about this but I am a music producer and I saw a lecture by Eddie Kramer once and he was joking all the time about Kiss, that they are not real musicians, how bad they play their instruments, asking the audience if there was any Kiss fan there as if it was a great shame. He said wonderful things about Hendrix and Zeppelin, It was really disrespectful and I got really irritated because I am a Kiss fan. Maybe Paul knows about this. Great show, thanks.
Another solid installment. Love the Mitch segment name, very creative.
IMO Destroyer is the best KISS album ever, great production, sounds like a ton of bricks (especially the resurrected version).
RnROver is good, but sounds a bit flat & the songs are not as hard as the ones on Destroyer or even on the first 3 albums.
Love Gun is the most overrated album, Tomorrow & Tonight, Then She Kissed Me, Hooligan, Almost Human (hate the back vocals), Love For Sale are weak songs. But only my opinion!
I completely agree. Relative to many other Kiss albums, Destroyer is weak. I would even say that Destroyer is weak compared to Dynasty. I know it's not a popular opinion but I can listen to Dynasty from start to finish. I don't think I have done that with Destroyer since the first time I listened to it. Ultimately it comes down to personal taste and people have all kinds of reasons for their preferences. My favorite Kiss album, and I don't like picking favorites, is Hotter than Hell.
In my opinion, the most overrated Kiss album is Destroyer. Detroit Rock City completely overwhelms every other song on that album. I give them credit for the experimental nature of the album and for trying to push the boundaries of their music but I would bet that very few Kiss fans listen to more than two or three songs on that album with any degree of frequency. I credit DRC, Beth and the amazing album cover with the popularity of this album. I never understood the popularity of Beth.
I'm not going to bag on "Baby Driver", because I love that song. My favorite albums are Revenge, Elder, Crazy Nights, so I'm all over the map. I love every song on Animalize. The weakest albums in Kiss' entire catalog are Gene's 78 solo album, Dressed To Kill and Psycho Circus. A lot of people trash Carnival of Souls, including our 3 favorite hosts, but I absolutely LOVE that album. I love almost everything Kiss has ever done, but have some mis-hits, as I've described earlier in my post.
I am not sure they'd go back and critique the records, the book you referred to was fairly comprehensive....and even Ace and Peter, the producers, other artists and musicians, their crew etc involved comment. They might feel like it's already been touched on enough. I personally would love a NEW book that broke down all that. My guess is Paul is preparing for the inevitable and probably tired of choosing his words/ level of honesty so carefully as the band and his voice retire finally.
In my opinion, "Dressed To Kill" is the most over-rated Kiss album. Some classic songs, but also some throwaways, unlike the 1st two albums. The production is thin and ultra clean, leaving the songs sounding sterile. It's like they said, "ok, we need 10 songs in the next 2 weeks. Let's use some leftover Wicked Lester stuff and write the simplest blues riffs known to man". "Ladies in Waiting", "2 Timer" & "Anything 4 My Baby" are just lame, period. Weak!
Wow I understand Paul Stanley is talking from where he is today, I really don't see why it's necessary that he has to throw any creamer under the bus and why he has to trash rock and roll over which i think is their best album and my personal favorite album. I am attached to destroyer because that's my first album I bought. Destroyer is not overrated, but IMO, Alive I & 2 , RnR Over and Love Gun were better albums
I think Paul's comments reflect where he is Today.Writing his autobiography,KISS memoirs allows him to be honest with how he felt about the project then,now . He wouldn't have wanted to share those remarks when the project was new,even now some fans don't like it.Producing, songwriting and KISS partner all of jobs he handles, it easy to see how he would think he could add/change a project.Even though some would ask "Why?" I think it's cool,rather than hype,we get enough of that.
I feel that "Destroyer" is totally overrated. It has songs that I love (Detroit Rock City) and hate (Beth!). The production was a lot better than on their first three albums and that's why I think some people view that album as "better". But I do feel "Rock And Roll Over" and "Lick It Up" to some extent are Kiss' most underrated albums. Every album after "Lick It Up" was Kiss trying to sound like other bands up until "Revenge". No to the PJs question. hahaha. Love the show guys.
hi guys great show again why ohh why would paul come out with those comments now after all this time what would you gain by it now!
perhaps they have asked eddie kramer to produce a new album or solo project and hes turned them down,and thats why paul is throwing him under the bus.
and on a side note do you guys ever get any feedback from members of the band theirselves about your show,no injunctions yet i presume:)
question for Tommy, have any customers come to you from seeing the show? If so , do you tell them " you need a 3 bedroom , 1 for you , 1 for your kid, 1 for your monster book "! Have you met anyone yet who has bought this book? do you still buy/sell for kiss expos? Also , it would be great if you could show us some of your kiss promo items. Thanks
Both Gene and Paul have said that Eddie Kramer just 'twiddled knobs' and could not REALLY be called a producer.. Paul demo'd RARO and Love Gun (most of the songs) on his own. They always fawn over the way Ezrin stretched their boundaries. Kramer got along well with Ace, and I think that's kinda what pissed G&P off.
Mitch, have you ever heard Paul's version of God of Thunder? AWFUL. Look it up on youtube. I agree that in this time (1976), they were developing these characters. The characters are another way to make this band unique. You comments on the solo records are spot on. Gene's solo was what GENE wanted to do, not what the demon character wanted.
No, just like Psycho Circus, Sonic Boom and Monster would be praised to high heaven's if they were made by the Original line up.Original line up fans can't see the forest for the trees. As far as Paul's production goes, I'll take any Paul produced album over any KISS album not produced by someone named Ezrin or Kramer.
I love DRC, King Of The Nighttime World, God Of Thunder, Flaming Youth, and Do You Love Me. I much prefer the live version of Shout It Out Loud. Beth I like, but prefer it played on acoustic guitars. Great Expectations isn't bad but I don't love it. Sweet Pain is a decent song but I don't care for Dick Wagner's guitar solo (and no, it's not because it's not Ace!).
Tommy, once they hired Ezrin to produce Destroyer, after his success with Alice singing Only Women Bleed, there was gonna be a ballad on the album.That's not ragging on Beth, just stating , Ezrin is the reason Beth sounded the way it does. had it not been available, Bob would have had a ballad sung by the make up freaks even if he had to bring in Dick Wagner to write it.
Paul is often delusional about what makes KISS great to the fans. Sonic Boom & Monster both suffer from horrendous production. He seems to think they are absolute high points in Kisstory. His perspective is very warped if he thinks RARO falls short....KISS were at their zenith in 1976-77. The Kramer albums are all successful milestones in KISS' career. I can't wait to read his book. Something tells me the same bus he threw Eddie Kramer under will leave heavy tire tracks on Gene's back.
Listening to Love Gun then and even now it's their best over all produced album besides Dynasty,which is slick production,a more of a different commercial style album by Poncia. The remastered albums are amazing sounding today and gotta give Kramer and Poncia credit for their efforts.
Kramer made Rock And Roll Over better than Ezrin could have ever done. RARO has what the first three missed as Tommy mentioned and I wish he had created the same sound on Love Gun,it was missing that solid bottom heavy sound. Paul and Gene spend to much time putting down so muc of the past.
Alive III credits Eddie Kramer and KISS as producer.Alive IV Symphony credits Mark Opitz..I'm not sure who produced KISS Alive "The Millennium Concert"As far as Eddie bashing KISS a lot of his critique is do to the theatrics involved at a KISS show not being optimum for capturing good sound quality.
I think the reason Paul is doing the producing himself is they are afraid to work with outside producers after what happened with Bruce Fairbairn on Psycho Circus.
Most of the songs I like on Sonic boom are written by Paul. ( Danger us, Say Yeah, and Never enough.. and maybe Modern Day Delilah too.
the thing thatfucks kiss up is, while they are capable of writing great songs they are also capable of writing junk
but the important part is they cant tell the difference
they just can't
their albums are as good as there producers thats always been the main factor
It's interesting to hear Paul's opinion on "RNR Over". Very surprising. However, love the honesty. Paul & Gene seem to be letting off alot of steam in the last few years. Maybe all the years of being professional finally was enough for them. So, that's why they have been hard on Ace, Peter, Eddie, etc. Who knows?
Paul's quip on RRO and Eddie is simply him settling another score. Remember Eddie went on to work with Ace more than once and, just maybe.Paulikns isn't getting the props he feels he deserves for his production on Monster n' Sonic Boom....plus, it's clear, Ace was at his best when working w/ Eddie.. so, yeah, possible RRO was not is Paul's happy timeline?
I disagree with Paul's Rock n Roll Over comments, but I find it refreshing he went away from the cookie cutter answers and gave his true feelings I'm not pissed off about what he said, I'm happy he decided to give us an honest answer.
I make custom action figures, I think I'm going to make a custom Peter Criss Transformer from a Beast Wars Cheetor for Mitch since he loves Peter so much. (Cheetor was a cheetah/robot figure. Not exactly a cat, but close enough and easy to find to customize)
Also... both G&P said they went into 'damge control' mode after the release of Destroyer, beause the 'real KISS fans' did not much care for the album initially. I remember hearing Great Expectations and going WTF?? in my 11 year old brain...
great episode guys...michael,maybe you could get paul ,do an interview with him on this very subject.you would be just the person that could bring paul to the table to let it all out!!! thanks for the great show and continue the good work that you do!!!
I agree with you Tommy 100%. Eddie Kramer was easily the best producer KISS ever worked with. As far as Rock and Roll Over goes, I couldn't disagree more with Paul's comment. Rock and Roll Over is a Great KISS album. One of my all-time favorites.
(37:01) Tommy mentions "Beth" as the most influential KISS-song to this day... Maybe from an American perspective. But outside America, the song wasn't a hit at all. In Europe for example, the general public associates KISS with "I Was Made For Lovin' You".
I compare this to Geddy Lee and Neil Peart cutting down pretty much all of their albums before Moving Pictures. They like to bash Hemispheres. And what Hemispheres often is for Rush fans is what Rock And Roll Over often is for KISS fans.
I love you guys' show!!! Listening to # 34 now. Funny thing, too. I just 'discovered' Paul's demo of 'Mr. Speed' on Jango. (It's like 'Pandora' only better) The demo is really cool. Paul plays a crap-load of lead all over it!
When you three always talk about guests, I always think about all the studio players on the solo albums and what great stories and insight they must have on the members' recording process. Yes? Maybe time to hunt them down?
For me, "cinematic" is a perfect term to characterize Destroyer, in the way Ezrin worked it and the artistic scope of it. I love the Songs on RNRO, but hate the production.
Our opinion on solo albums is this: a solo album should be different from what the artist did in their band. So, in that regard, Gene & Peter's solo albums were right on the money. All 4 solo albums are good, in our opinion. Paul's is closest to Kiss.
I remember this differently. Ace and Peter said they wanted a roots rock record.Gene and Paul didn't.
Also no Ace writing credits.Maybe that was the fear.
Sound??? Does anyone remember AM radiio???
Paul's half deaf and shouldn't be producing at all.He can not mix the drums good at all, Listen to Sonic Boom and Monster.The drums are in and out all over the place! Eddie Kramer any day over Paul
Yeah agree! For that time back in the 70's RARO was the best hard raw rock album Kiss ever did other than the slicked up production of Destroyer and Ace is missing on almost half of that album.
So which lp is your fave and why? Why hate 2 timer more than , I dunno, baby driver? I think the first 3 lps are actually bagged on , not overrated. I think Animalize is overrated. 3 good songs.
No offense guys but you three are stuck in the 70s Kiss era, have you forgot Kiss kicked ass in the 80s and early 90s. I'm tired of fans thinking Kiss is only Kiss when they are wearing makeup.
I would take the first the Kiss albums, along with Alive!, over anything they did after. I love the rawness and the songs were the best.............
Mike is right! Paul's solo album was truly him at that time. In interviews during the 80's, Gene makes fun of Paul for writing love songs and being sensitive. BTW...love the show!
Thanks Tom. I thought I was a Kiss fan until I started watching "Three Sides of the Coin"; now I realize I know almost nothing about Kiss. Thanks to you guys for doing this.
Getting Dana Strum on the show would be great! He would have some insight and stories about Vinnie. Would be nice to hear his perspective on Vinnie rather than Gene and Paul's.
I think Kramer was focused on making a great KISS record whereas Ezrin and even Poncia were focused on the main songwriters, Simmons/Stanley... Even considering Ace a major force post 78'.
a listening order for the studio albums that gives me a feeling of production progression and what could have been...
KISS**HOTTER THAN HELL**DRESSED TO KILL**ROCK AND ROLL OVER**LOVE GUN**DESTROYER**CREATURES OF THE NIGHT...the 80's and 90's were a mysteriously quiet time for KISS, save for the singles they got together to record every couple years or so...THEN THEY WERE BACK!!! PSYCHO CIRCUS**SONIC BOOM**MONSTER
My top 5. #1-R&RO. #2-DESTOYER #3-CREATURES #4-HOTTER THAN HELL #5-LOVE GUN. I'd put Alive and Alive 2 on there but I went with just studio records. Although Alive was all done studio except for Peter Criss.
I agree about the elder being a great lp. Definitely in my top 5. The oath,only you ,under the rose in particular is excellent. And we cant forget Mr. Blackwell , ha
Paul Stanley is ridiculous, after the sonic debacle that was Destroyer, how could he have a problem with RnRO? Destroyer is great tunes recorded poorly. RnRO are gret tunes recorded well.
If they weren't happy with the job Eddie Kramer did on Rock and roll over then why did they use him on their next LP, Love Gun?
Love your shows guys...
Destroyer was my first record and I stayed a fan after that.
The record I had hinted I wanted, Gene's solo record, would have turned me off from KISS.
the only thing wrong with the production of RARO is the sound of the room
its just not a good sounding room
thats why no one tried that gimick again
LOVE the passion of you 3 in this episode! You can truly feel the shock and almost anger over Paul's comments. Love the honesty and passion! Kudos!
This is all Paul's attempt to further solidify the idea that this version of the band trumps the original band musical output. Which is ridiculous
Good point Brian. I can tell you from experience that I have been in the studio with Eddie Kramer watching him work. He is a producer and an engineer.
If someone came up to me and proclaimed R & R Over to be the greatest KISS record I wouldn't argue against it, Destroyer would prompt an argument.
When Mitch put his Kiss boxers on his head, you could have had that guy from the Kiss Unmasked album cover say "I Still Say They Stink"!
Dude, they get criticized by "fans" who are stuck in the 70s!
They get criticism for their apparent "bashing" of Ace and Peter!
Hello 3 sides.I'm glad you were able to use my "3 Sides Jumps the Shark" artwork at the beginning of this episode.Thank You Chris.
Love this album. Very different to Destroyer, not comparable really with so different sounds/production. I hear "Alice Cooper sounds" and even "melodies" sort of with Destroyer... Not bad though but its when the producer is like the "fifth member" of the band. Imo, was a good move to make Rock and Roll Over after Destroyer. Raw rocknroll sounds really... Nice rocking riffs, i.e. Mr. Speed, Makin' Love (very heavy, hard rock tune), etc. Ah well i like all 9 or 11 first Kiss albums, up until maybe Creatures of the Night. After that became a little too 80s hair rock thing with Kiss and without 2 original members they sort of lost me anyway... But they've really made a lot of many good records over the years.