No belt fed. No grenades No Rockets No Artillery No Air Support You arent John Wick Hit and run is the only way. The longer a fight goes on, the more chance you are going to get hit.
Especially if you are alone, and there are too many unknown variables. If you don't know who it is or how many it's best to get the heck away. Only go foward when it's under your terms, and not theirs
The biggest lesson I learned about gunfights is that half the battle is just figuring out where the enemy is shooting at you from. Even though you know what direction the enemy is shooting from, that doesn’t necessarily mean you know where they are shooting at you from.
We has some trouble with seeing where bullets were bring fired from in Iraq When on Guard duty or convoy. Bullets would wiz by our towers and we would hear the shot percussion afterward. We never actually saw where the fire was coming from. Of course it was one or two shots at a time. Very random. There was more of a pattern to mortar attacks. Usually 3 rounds were fired and then nothing. Sometimes there would be dud rounds that would not go off. At the time I was thinking the rounds came in a box of three. They were using buried mortar tubs across the highway from our base and sometime they would fire them from the back of a pickup truck on MSR Tampa.
Shooting in the direction of a target as opposed to shooting at a target is the main reason so much ammo is used in military conflicts. That is the difference between the number of rounds fired by those on patrol who find themselves in fire fights and the number of rounds fired by snipers. Rule of thumb is one can never have enough ammo but how much one can carry is the deciding factor.
Military protocol in general is nonsense for the individual civilian. US military SOP is especially nonsensical for the individual civilian because they have near infinite ammo supply to suppress and pin down and artillery/aviation support to do the actual killing and have near instant medevac and multiple team members to continue suppression when one goes down. As a one or two man patrol you had better never allow yourself to be engaged, as a single hit can put an end to all your return fire possibilities. An ambush initiating with a .22lr hit to the armpit will make you a stumbling loot box with your 300 round load.
@@burgundypointexactly what I just posted as a question. Who is going to supply the average citizen his ammunition so he can use suppressive fire? Therefore it doesn’t look like the average citizen will be resupplied enough ammunition to use suppressive fire then.
@@burgundypoint Great points. This is similar to sport fencing (e.g. kendo) versus real life. In a GENUINE SHTF scenario where 911 isn’t an option, every move you make will have an extreme consequence if you’re on the wrong side of the risk assessment. People think they’ll go “patrol” their backyards, neighborhoods, or 40 acres. Really? Okay…you CAN. Is it going to give you some sort of tactical/strategic advantage versus, say, being in a well fortified position with 24 hour security, augmented with force multipliers like night vision, thermal capable drones, and a trained, disciplined, team? Even without expensive technology…just tin can intrusion detection, binoculars from Walmart, and some barbed wire to create denial areas, funnels, etc. Seriously, folks. I think the .22 in an armpit is an excellent point. It doesn’t take much to make you dead-but-don’t-know-it. Reality is brutal.
I mean, you could also die with two empty magazines or die with 11 full mags exactly where you put them because you went into the woods carrying nothing but an sbr with an eotech. I get wanting alot of ammo, but the average civilian is fine with a red dot/holographic for home defense and night vision... and that's about it. For any other use case a good magnified optic is much more of a force multiplier than having 4 more mags.
I am a vet but not a combat vet. I served during one of those weird times when we were not at war. Those of you that are combat vets, I hold you in high regard and I appreciate you for sharing your knowledge, gained thru experience. At 66 years old, I doubt that I will ever be on patrol. If I am, then you know that crap has really hit the fan, big time and no one is going to have the life they once had.
Communities survive these scenarios anyway, not lone wolves. All these tubers like to jerk off to this fantasy of them being one man wrecking crews with all the women in the post apocalyptic world. Its hilarious. No sir - you've done your time, you'd leave the patrolling to someone more my age, mid thirties to do that. You sir in a SHTF situation would be wisely used more at the home base, for a number of things. Your value would be 10x at the base camp, versus out there doing the young mans bullshit.
I served during Desert Storm but never deployed overseas, and I also have a huge respect for those who did. If I'm ever inadvertently in a firefight like he described while out in the woods, I'm just SOL with my one mag, sidearm, pocket knife, and a beer. 🤣
@@paulis7319we’re all in your position. Realistically we are not ready. I estimate that it would take a minimum of 10 dedicated families to survive a SHTF situation, and we should have already done the work. It’s too late to be well prepared for most of us.
@@SDGLFDNC Yep, I'm a caregiver for my 87 year old mom on a 115 acre farm with no "next door" neighbors, and all the other people within a five mile radius are much older than I am, and way way way more out of shape (I'm 53 and workout+cardio).
Infantry guy here i can tell you from experience ammo resupply never comes as fast as you need it too we carried a basic load of 210 rounds 6 mags plus one in the gun ! after a few fire fights we quickly learned that double basic load was the reality of what we needed so 420 rounds so 12 mags plus one in the gun !
The special operator kit usually revolves around mission parameters that allow for high intensity short duration with backup and air support. I also heavily advocate for carrying a standard combat load minimum, with spare ammo in stripper clips in your backpack. At least. However, your main objective shouldnt be getting into firefights in a shtf situation regardless.
In combat, I carried 14 mags for my M4 and 10 mags for my M9 (MTOE issued both) plus 2 frags. I planned on not getting my head cut off on Al Jezeera TV, while kneeling in an orange jumpsuit.
My 2 cents. If I'm patrolling, this tells me I'm in a non-permissive environment, or other circumstances requires that I patrol. This means that 2 or 3 mags is insufficient. Each must determine what they will or won't do. Choose carefully.
The problem is that you will not have a taxpayer funded logistics system to re supply. If you mag dump in a firefight, your homestead will run dry very quickly
Modern infantry tactics don't apply to SHTF situations. It's always wild to me that people think they're going to dump 12 mags in a sustained engagement and come out un scythed. Survival is always disengaging.
Most people never been in a gun fight and think it’s going to be cinematic or like a video game. You can be tact’d out and all it takes is one round to hit you in the leg or arm and your dead anyways in a shtf grid down scenario.
Hi Stoker, In RVN ‘69, I carried 3 bandoliers of 7 - 20 rd mags slung, with another 4 bandoliers in my rut, 1 mag in my weapon. In one horseshoe ambush (27 Aug 69), I appeared to be one of the very few who still had ammo. At the end of that day, 47 went home wounded.
Thank you for your service! My uncle Master SGT Larry Helms is one of my heros. Did 2 tours in Vietnam. Sent home with malaria. I remember him coming home in 1970. A giant to me. 6'2" in height but my father said he only weighed 123lbs at the time. Grandfather WWII and Korea. Military family back to Revolutionary War, Capt Connelly under George Washington. God bless our military, past, present and future! God bless you all!
I’ve run out of ammo in combat, it’s not happening again in any scenario if I can help it. When I go out on my property it’s at least 2 magazines. If I’m fighting the war for restoration it’s going to be all I can manage.
In boot camp a drill Sergeant asked me how many rounds you carry into battle. So I counted the magazine pouches on my gear and timesed it by 30 and came up with 180 rounds. He said no, you carry as many as you can cram into every pocket and nook and cranny on your gear.
Amen... fire fight in Balad, Iraq 2008... We went in with 300 rounds each... 43 minutes later, when the shooting stopped, I counted 12 among my 5 rounds remaining among my team.
@@kbkesq When I was younger I had a 44 magnum and I had 5 speed loaders on my pistol belt and a pouch for loose rounds (50). Winchester silver tipped hollow points. Never hurts to have it and not need it.
I keep 5 rifle mags on my plate carrier, one on my belt, and one in my gun, and even more in my pack. I think this is enough to maintain a small fire fight, but my goal isn't to win a gun fight, its to sustain myself long enough to get out of a firefight.
@@sebastiandiaz5682 my goal in a gunfight isnt to come out on top, its to come out alive. The more i try and come out on top, the more likely i am to die. Obviously my goal is also to elimate my threat, but if the option to evade is there, im taking it.
I’d read someplace once that it was about 2k rounds per verified casualty in Vietnam. Great video. Part of the reason that round count is so high is addressed in a brilliant book called On Killing. Basically states that humans simply inherently don’t want to kill each other and that we’d rather scare each other off. There’s a lot of psychology behind that. I just came across your channel today. Solid video and great wisdom
@@Mountain_bonker it’s a brilliant book it’s by Lt. Col Dave Grossman. He was a military psychologist that studied effects of killing of soldiers. It’s a studies in violence.
I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but that book is quite controversial. A lot of later studies done tend to outright debunk or revise Colonel Grossman’s findings
@@brianfondofbbq A great book for sure. He did later books which revised his original findings. An example is the first book had the research sample of 19 year old conscripts in Vietnam and studied them/that. As can be expected, with their rushed training, unwillingness on the part of many to even be there in the military, the individual replacement program for in-field replacements in Vietnam (Very different to the Australian scheme there) and the release from service near immediately after their Vietnam tour was complete, and unpopular nature of the war at home, it was very different to that of a WWII volunteer, or a multiple-tour GWOT veteran with 25 years of service behind him. The newer book is titled 'On Combat'.
I was an 0311. I was a SAW gunner up until the M27 IAR replaced the SAW and i had to carry 22 mags initially. It was a fucking nightmare. Above all else, you must seriously ask yourself and be realistic: "If I'm carrying X amount of mags/ammo, can I maintain the physical requirements to return fire, and break contact?" I just weighed my Agilite PC with 2 RMA lvl 4 plates and 4 fully loaded mags and it came out to 29lbs. That's not including a water source, rations, basic medical supplies, or comms. I am willing to bet with all that stuff included I'd be right around 40-45lbs. Can you in your current physical state break contact? Keep in mind this isn't a blanket universal practice. Breaking contact looks very different in a open rural area compared to an urban space. Breaking contract in a rural area can mean sprinting 300+ meters (that's also a conservative number.) Things to think about
No buggin out for me life in the woods would suck enough to make me wish i was dead I'm standing strong at my castle if my wife and children want to leave they can....not me.
@universallaw8850 if I had land I go out hunting or fishing on it, but I'm in the city, my whole plan is to bug in, my house can carry all the food water and ammo I can store
Too many guys equate SHTF to the military.... They are not the same thing. You're not trying to win fights, you're trying to avoid them. You're not out on patrol, you're hunkering down and trying to survive. *IF* you get in a gun fight at all, it's likely going to be Over within a matter of seconds. You won't even have time to reload. There are no firefights in SHTF. MOST of the threats you will encounter will not have AR-15's. They will have Bolt action deer rifles or pistols or shotguns. 400 million guns in America only 20 million are AR's. That's only 5%. These people aren't carrying 200+ rounds. They're using hit and run tactics. Your Goal during SHTF should be to be fast, mobile, AND NOT MAKE YOURSELF A TARGET.
Watched 1 guy say when he was in combat his load out was 14 mags. The reason he started with 7 and did the mission then they had to fight there way out multiple times. He swore he wasn't running out of ammo if he could help ever again.
there 's no reason, in shtf, for you to be out of your tunnel in daytime. At night, with a subsonic ammo option, a silenced auto-rifle, armor, night vision, solar charger, spare battereis, there's very little reason to miss, ever, and you'll recover guns and ammo from dead bodies. Carrying 14 lbs of ammo and mags is a load of bs. Since the advent of the AK, not a single surviving MOH winner has had to hit more than 5-6 men with his rifle. IF you need more than 60 rds to do that, you'll never make it.
14 loaded magazines is a lot of weight. Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal stress on the body. Add that to a chest rig with a med kit, pistol mags, camelback and other gear, that would be tough to do for very long.
I have no expertise in this area so take this for what is worth (almost nothing), but I think the types of scenarios you are preparing for won’t benefit from military style patrolling and drills. With no medical support or evacuation infrastructure it will almost always be better to fall back and regroup in a hardened location
Best scenario for the worst scenario. If your location gets hot and you have no community left to count on, get out with what you can. Know your area and all roads, even the pig trails and get moving. It's harder to kill a moving target. This is all dependent upon how many family members you have, how agile they are and how burdensome they will be. A man and his kids could make it out, but if the kids are 10 and under them you're going to have a problem. Granny and papaw aren't going anywhere. Family members with health issues are not going to make it long, sadly enough.
I was Airborne Infantry late 80s early 90s in Vicenza. My platoon SGT, like many of our senior NCOs, was a Vietnam vet. He asked us how much ammo we think we need out there. He said, " All of it."
My opinion: when it kicks off, small communities will rapidly come togeather. Gear is important, but being part of a community and having plans to rapidly building up a force of capable adults to defend your community. All the cool guy gear in the world is nothing compared to having 20-100 other capable adults on your side. 30 years ago most people would have shotguns and hunting rifles. Now most armed people are going to have AR-15s. There are like 20 million of them in the USA now, or 1 for every 10 adults or so of fighting age. People think they have an AR and a plate carrier some Instagram influencer convinced them they need for SHTF. Most of the folks engaged will likely have a semi auto mag fed rifle and a chest rig or carrier of some sort. More ammo is good, but more than 12 mags it's better to have 12 friends. Nothing wrong with having both though.
You're thinking like a true patriot. We MUST come together as communities, regardless of how big or small. Sharing resources, knowledge and power is the only thing that will keep more people alive longer.
On point. 8-10 Stanags on my chest rig, keep a couple extra in my patrol/ day pack for typical extreme condition and non-permissive situations. Doing ERT and PSD's in Contracting (also non-permissive environment), we would have 8-10 minimum on us (plus one in the gun) at any given time, with much more to boot in the vehicles, reacting to contact saw us burning multiple mags and belts in suppressive and target-direct fire.
CAV guy here, I can tell you that the ammo resupply typically comes 2 to 3 days late if at all. especially if you the furthermost element and your cut off no help is coming to you. We typically travel with 14 mags on average per person.
even 6 or 8 mags wont help if you're out there without a support of other team members or if you're fighting the fight without support. it may look easy, but i highly encourage people to try airsoft matches against pros and beginners . i have some experience in military tactics, but got owned by total noobs on airsoft site. why? because they dont know or follow military doctrine as rest of grunts do. you're taught how to fight to the point that its reaction more than a decision. on the other hand civvies thinks different and acts different too. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE people who arent "military skilled".
@@alexbell8865 true, won't argue there. My intention was only to show people how quickly one can be "dead" even if fighting an inferior opponent . I've played with guys who had little knowledge about fighting, but we're resourceful and able to think " outside of the box", and despite heavy losses on our side, we beat the team of well trained professional soldiers. When direct confrontation is certain suicide, retreat or turn to guerilla style warfare.
One thing I look at in a scenario like this in wooded areas is to use my environment to my favor, such as setting up boobytraps, ect. but knowing which one to setup and how to do it properly. Things like this can and will at some point either buy you some time and even save your life as well as lowering the number game you face. Learn any and all boobytraps, this can be another tool in the toolbox for use. Stay strapped and alert guy's.
Yes sir....glad my dad taught me a few things he learned in Vietnam as an airborne green beret that he learned from some of the US friendly forces that were local tribesman.........nobody, and i mean nobody would try to follow me through the woods once i set up a few slow down measures😊😊😊 best to just turn around and go home in one piece
How would you learn something like this is you don't have anyone to teach you? I'm curious about what you said. I think it's a good idea. I just wouldn't have a clue where to start. I don't with a lot of this stuff! Lol
Stoker, I am going to encourage everyone to get your SHTF book and read it. I did yesterday and have only got through the sign cutting and moving surveillance chapters. They are spot on target! My background for saying this is: I grew up hunting and tracking game and shooting. I spent three years in the Infantry in the Army, then passed the tests and was hired by the Border Patrol, after four years I transferred to the Customs Agency Service and in 1973 was absorbed into DEA. While I was in the Border Patrol, we spent a lot of time sign cutting and tracking aliens entering the US. Sign cutting was serious work for the Border Patrol, and it probably still is when they are not doing paperwork during the current invasion. While I was with Customs and DEA we did a lot of moving vehicle surveillance, and your book perfectly describes the techniques we used. BTW: The longest vehicle surveillance I was on started in Corpus Christi, Tx to San Antonio, to El Paso, then to Albuquerque, NM and then to a dirt landing field east of Albuquerque. We only had three vehicles and six agents on the surveillance. The suspect spent the night in motels in San Antonio and Albuquerque and we "slept" in our vehicles. Once we arrived at the dirt landing strip, an aircraft landed, and the pilot and our subject met. The next morning the aircraft departed and headed to the Mexican border. By that time a Customs aircraft was on the scene and continued the surveillance until they "burned" it close to the border. Really irritating! Anyway, so far, I have been really impressed with your book and am looking forward to reading the rest. Some real good info!
Volume of fire for the military is not the same as for civilians, we will not have the resupply they do. A topic I rarely hear is the different types of fire volume, sustained, suppression, covering, final etc.. it seems most just think mag dump. I am a firm believer that it does not take 1000s of rounds fired to be proficient. Do the drills, snap in for majority of time spent, shoot a min of a couple times a year some to stay accurate. Shoot more if you want but it's not necessary to be proficient.
Snapping in can be really important. We spent an entire week doing this before ever firing a round at the range. They had a 55 gal. drum paint white with white dots painted on it. We'd get about 10 or so yards away and learn to do it right...body position, sight picture, breathe, squeeze, no flinch, etc. Really helps.
Exactly. These guys are taking the mentality meant for a large occupying military force against worse equipped opponents. This is not insurgent mentality needed for shtf.
Just did a 2.5 mile ruck running 6 on chest one in gun along with 3 side arm mags. Easy work. Going to take your advice and bump it up to 10 mags next time.
That's what I'm figuring too, tracking and counter tracking and setting up a proper ambush are going to be much more important knowledge but it never hurts to know a little but of everything
Way too many people on the internet think theyre going up against a platoon of guys and living to tell the tale. If its 1v1 you have a 50% chance plus modifiers for element of surprise, tactics, skill and a hair of luck to make it out alive. That gets way worse with just one more against you, or two. Break contact and dissapear. The more mags you dump the more attention you draw, and sure MAYBE youll spook the other guys into giving up chase. But thats a hefty risk. Act accordingly to your mission.
Worse, they think any SHTF period would involve an occasional voluntary participation for a nearby 10am-2 pm shoot-em-up, then go back home and see what's on the stove.
After SHTF , truthfully, most people will be more concerned about food and water . Gunfights will probably be few and far between . Those gunfights will be close quarters, quick and violent , very few rounds . Can the other happen possibly , yes, of course . But wasting all your ammo supply on one or two jackasses doesn’t make sense either .
Know the property on which you will be defending. Have multiple stash points places throughout along with multiple options for defensive positions. Look into force multipliers as well, traps, kill zones, best places to immobilize vehicles, create hardships for the enemy, etc.
You didn't mention the shaking and the vision changes during your first fire fight. Even during OverWatch you sweat and other things with minimal movement.
to train this I walk in my neighborhood yelling profanities and racial slurs. It gets the adrenaline pumping and fight mentality kicking in while doing cardio.
Standard load out for non permissive or permissive environments for a rifle man (30round magazine) is 210 rounds. X7 mags included a weapon in amber status.
In a shtf world. My setup that is hanging in my closet as we speak has 8 AR-15 mags & 4 .40 cal pistol mags. Next to that sits a 60 round AR15 drum and a 100 round AR15 drum. Both of which I would consider disposable in the situation. One and done. But they sure are big ones!
,,,,,,,,,,,, that and,,,,,,,, I love our leaders here but their dream will be a nightmare; IMO what is coming to America in the form of war will be different than any of us vets could imagine or experienced. Just my .02.
@@alexbell8865 we got called in to try to flush out a IED trigger man. Had support from tanks but when everything was done they abandoned us on the wrong side of the street. Was a big open stretch and the Mujh was waiting for the 100 yard dash Olympics.
I was looking at those russian Zaslov guys whos job is to protect hvts and they rock drum mags as their mag in rifle. The more I think about it the more it makes sense, especially if the goal is to brake contact and move.
As someone who has been through an ambush he is not wrong. One thing he forgot was you or your buddy being wounded having to manage that as well. I was that wounded guy had part of my face dangling and you better believe cranking off a mag or two at probably nothing or a general area is going to happen. You may not even fire in the general a vicinity you may be firing 90° off from where the enemy actually is. Also do not forget you are going to fire every time you withdraw/advance or maneuver and if you stay still the enemy is going to maneuver on you closing you in till you cannot fire in all the direction they are firing at you. Just because you are not firing in the exact spot of the enemy it may keep them from moving or keep them down if the rounds are close enough for them to hear the supersonic crack.
In a SHTF scenario and no 911 to help, being fit or healthy is paramount, maintaining a water and food source is ultra important, and avoiding aggression and avoiding movement at all cost will help you survive longer than anything else. If you’re in a firefight with someone or a lot of someones… you done messed up already, in a post apocalyptic where help is not coming, catching a .22LR with any part of your body is a life threatening emergency, someone can shoot you with a pellet gun, depending on where you get hit and without medical attention, the know-how, or the antibiotics for infections… a pellet can literally take your life in a few days. Limit mobility would be another important thing in my book, a broken leg or arm from a serious fall or accident can kill you or leave you on the ground to die of dehydration in a few days, bow and arrow guys carrying arrows with broad heads in a quiver o pouch and you fall on top of them after tripping on something and they slice right into your abdomen, your back, or on the side of your rib cage (it’s happened before and people have bled to death because of it IN A NON APOCALYPTIC WORLD) Wildlife… a SNAKEBITE can kill you in a matter of hours without medical attention, not to mention certain venomous bugs like spiders or scorpions or disease carrying bugs like fleas, ticks, or mosquitoes, a bite or sting from any of those will put you out of the fight in a few days and without any medical care or treatment… you will die in a very horrible way in a few days of gangrene or fevers. Think about anything in your ordinary life (non post-apocalyptic world) that will send you to the ER or at least to CVS to get some medication, now just think that these attentions won’t be available… it’s scary to think about people 150 years ago (before antibiotics, penicillin, or modern medicine) where a cut or a scrape would be considered a life altering experience, it’s been made fun of in Family Guy where Peter is on a boat on the high seas coming to America and he gets a splinter in his hand and tells everyone “it was nice knowing you guys” it’s funny to think about, but in all reality, it’s the truth. There’s a sht ton of things people don’t think about in their delusion, they think they’re just gonna walk out to the woods, Rambo through the apocalypse, and start a colony… when in all reality THEY’RE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE NO MORE THAN 5 MILES FROM THEIR HOUSE.
Fighting in the woods is absolute hell. Urban warfare is said to be worst. But idk something about the woods and having so much shit to blend with just makes things a lot harder to see.
funny historical fact ,many times more kia's per shot were achieved with arrows than with guns in massed battles . I believe Agincour was something like 1 frenchman per 20 arrows . the worst ,or best ,depending on how blood thirsty you are and/or don't like men in dresses [ kilts ]. Dupplin Moor where the rate may have been even lower yet, with a 2000 man army running out of targets ,and probably horrified ,when the up to 10 000 man Scots army finally ran out go . Plus arrows can often be retrieved ,and or repaired .
No chance head on head , but lots of hunters love sitting in trees for 12 hours and drop things that move .. Dont have the ammo drops than best learn to snipe and snipe a tic off a dogs ass id say .. or better yet move away turn drop fire from long distances and keep heading away . I have 0 intentions on head on confrontations put my energy in being a shadow way long before id work on army grunting head on force f that . Go where no one wants to be cold ice snow freezing learn how to survive there its not hard .
Professional experience says enough is never enough. Pack as much ammo as you can carry quietly and quickly for quite a while… beyond that, the lay person should shelter in place and only engage immediate threats when absolutely necessary.
I look at the guys saying three mags and then ask myself, “why would they be telling me that three mags is enough?” The only logical answer is that “they” want us under equipped if it ever came down to it. Scary to think about. The real ones are the guys telling you that you need more. When you think you have enough, stow away some more. Outlast the fire fight. 500 yards is break contact distance. We could maneuver in, and expel that ammo. In my mind it’s better to just break contact to live and fight your fight.
So I've been thinking about this for quite some time now... Considering how many i need to carry for concealed carry every day. My answer arrived in the form of a declaration i had to do on a guy who opted out. He had .45 glock and magazines and additional firearms and a grenade under his thigh. The police were slightly shocked. This is the answer I was looking for. All of them. Two on me and one in my side arm and the rest in my day bag which is always with me. all my magazines. So interesting that ive been considering this and thinking about it the past few days and then that situation and now this video.
Its because they look at all the former SF gear videos and don't understand the WHY of any of what those guys are saying. They went into GWOT carrying 12 and up. but started carrying less and less. Gunfights got shorter, and support assets because much more available. And most of the guys with youtube channels always talk about being on recon missions. NOT snatch and grabs or assaults. So of course on a recon where you have guaranteed CAS support and you have to march 20 miles your not gonna carry a shit ton of weight if you can avoid it.
I'm a combat Vet, when I carried an M4, combat load was 210 rounds. I had 400 easy at any time. When I carried the m249, combat load was 600 rounds, I carried 1000.
Easy now son. I dont even leave the house without at least 10 loaded 30tys for a simple trip down the road. 11 being in the Rifle. The Rifle hardcase holds 10. If im working my plate carrier it holds 6 loaded mags itself. If i can make it back home before the full SHTF storm. Ive got double that in storage. If you can find one that runs good. A 100 round drum a couple goes along way with the others. A good scope. Is definitely a must have. A good brand name 3x9x32 with mill dots with reticles that turn on to red or green. Depending upon the backdrop. A couple of backup M4s is also worth stocking up on. At least 3. 1 DD4 with detachable Nite optics. An 2 Smith&Wesson M&P 15. With the option to use more freedom seeds per trigger pull. One of the wesson is a everyday carry. The other is still sealed in plastic as a fallback. If something happens to the 1st. 10 thousand rounds is a good starting point. 12thousand is lucky number to me. A good 30-06 with a long range scope. Ammo to match A good 338 is nice to have for reaching out an stopping a threat while its still a few football fields away. Ammo for it is a little expensive. Im a huge fan of my Barrett 50. With a few 100 rounds at minimum. I also like to carry a 40cal. In backup of that a 357 revolver. I say 357 cause i can shoot both 38spl an 357 out of it. With Ammo to match. Ive spent a few years collecting an storing ammo, firearms an medical supplies. If you got the means an the property to do it on. A good storage room more like a sealed vault. Climate controlled an preferable under the dirt. For storing all my extras. A good set of plates an backup carrier. The Spartan Armor AR 600 lev4 + is a good yet reasonable priced plate One thing about living in the rural mountains is privacy and very few neighbors. No one thinks to much about some concrete trucks an building materials getting pumped an delivered. If you dont have any neighbors to watch what's being built on your property is even better. If something was to happen. Either i make it. Or someone stumbled upon a gold mine.
My dad is a Vietnam veteran, served two tours and his best advice to young grunts was to stay low and go slow. Listen to your gut and take nothing for granted. In the jungle it wasn't necessarily the svc that would get you, it was trench foot, snakes, poisonous spiders and rancid water. A case of diarrhea could kill you if you weren't able to get to medical care.
I argue that letting the enemy know where you are can be a wise move, provided you do not attack them or show fear/aggression. The problem is people can set ambushes and traps with this tactic (such as in the middle eat wars). But if you're VERY open and aren't trying to pull any sneaky tricks (keep that reputation intact) then you can get some interesting results.
I was in the 101st during GWOT. The "data" we were presented as a division was 5000/1 KIA. Obviously 80% of those rds are not even intended to kill, but suppress. If they kill great but that wasn't the objective of a SAW gunner most of the time. As far as the standard M4 carrying infantryman. I'm guessing it had to be a few hundred to 1.
Civilians (or soldiers without infinite resupply) cannot "suppress" the enemy with unarmed spray and pray tactics. We must only shoot accurately with aimed shots, then move out. Shoot and scoot gives one the chance to live and fight another day! Mass quantities of ammo prevent rapid movement and prevent the carrying of enough water and food and anything else with weight. My plan is to carry one of my .308's and 3 mags on the plate carrier, 2 on the belt and 3 in the assault pack. And, of course, one in the gun. That gives me 210 rounds of .308 plus my pistol. That is a lot of aimed shots. If I am fighting from my home I have a lot more mags and other calibers available. The above is for mobile operations.
In basic training, we never fired our rifles on full auto. In BRM, we were instructed in semi auto , three fired for grouping. They were instructing us for ammo conservation. I was in the Army 1990s with the M16A2. I've always used that method right up to now with my AR-15. My thing at first was, I couldn't hit anything well with the right hand side. I switched to left. In no time at all I was 40/40, the drill cadre made me try again, could not believe it, again 40/40.. this is a suggestion, if you are righty, try switching to left, if you are having accuracy issues. The main situation is, practice ammo conservation.
@@Peaches-i2i Yeah, look in some of the old pictures of 5th group guys carrying their patrol loadouts. Or John Stryker Meyer, the only surviving MACV-SOG guy, talk about patrol ammo.
I have had incoming rounds and as near as I could tell, there was about 45 degrees out from my position, that the incoming rounds could have come from, in that situation it makes it very hard to return effective fire.
During Vietnam, it was reported in a study, that 60 to 65 k rounds were fired on full auto, from 20 round mags, for every one enemy KIA, that's why they went to tri burst.
Well considering in combat the whole company had 100 rd per Marine so ya if you know your going into a fight or positive battle will come than you need more
Anything can work in SHTF situation, if you have all the Tacticool gear great, if all you have is a hunting shotgun, great. Both beat being an unarmed civilian. Anything is better than nothing.
I live on a ranch and only real threat is wildlife. Trespassers encounter that long before ranch hands discover personal affects. In most cases, these idiots are running or hiding from wildlife and our staff is happy to help. Recovering dead trespassers is not pleasant.
so? that has NOTHING to do with shtf, bro. People on working farms or ranches are outnumbered 50 to 1 and the groups of marauders will hit a new place every few days, cause they wont score enough from any one place to sustain them any longer than that. So you'll be attacked again and again if you stay above ground, make noise, or show a light at night.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6hI don't know about that. Open country, like parts of the West, are very dangerous grounds of you're up to no good. Someone with a 300 Winchester Magnum and a good scope will be a real threat at 800 yards. Movements will have to be at night, and most of these ranchers have night or thermal goggles for hogs and coyotes.
"War is HELL..... but actual combat just plain sucks." When someone is shooting at you, with the intent to kill you, your first instinct will be to "mag dump" one or two mags just because it makes you feel better.
We carried 8 mags with the knowledge that backup was never more than 15 minutes away. Most people have no idea how fast a couple hundred rounds will go.
Honestly don't take a prolonged gun fight unless you know you have the means of sustaining it. If the odds are not in your favor and you have a way out and your goal is simply to survive then just get out if you can.
For every military combat situation in an shtf you are very right and there is nothing to argue about and nothing to add . If that ever will happen we all do not know, and if it does how big are the chances of the average civilian to get into that kind of action. I guess everybody has to decide that for himself. But for sure i would have at least the capability to be able to. Specially in the US. Here in Europe and Germany- were i live that risk is - i say minimal. I was born in the cold war and served my mandatory time in the Bundeswehr in 82/83. I do legally own guns and hunt/shoot here, i reload and all of that.. Contrary to the common believe we still have quite a few guns in posession. Of the around 6 million registered guns we own here every gun, gun owner and his address is known to the government. If kind of that ever happens here they will be knocking on our doors in no time. And all our guns will be gone... Magazines for semi - auto rifles are restricted to 10 rounds. But all that still leaves about 10 million (official estimations by the police/ authoritys) not registered , illegal guns in the posession of people here.... Mostly old stuff from WW1+2 , some leftovers, that came illegally into the country after the kosovo war and some other stuff. There is no chance for a civilian here to ever be involved in a situation of an extended military firefight .. One point i like to mention is that in times like your great depression or here right after the war people when life war really hard still people still did tend to not shoot everybody around them .. In shtf here you would be better armed than the average guy with a .22 target pistol , grandpas .32acp from ww1 or your hunting rifle - if you still have it then... Sad but true. Take care over there that you keep your freedom regarding that and never trade it of for false security. Greetings from Germany.
As a French licensed shooter, maybe less than a week away from major civil unrest I can tell you you're wrong. Currently in New Caledonia despite a pre civil war state, the French government ( a bunch of traitors) didn't disarm anybody. Why ? Because when shit happens the state doesn't have the ressources in law enforcement to both manage the civil unrest and disarm law abiding citizens. (More, law enforcement know they can't face everything and encourage citizens to defend themselves.) To disarm their citizens, the state must have a long period of time and of relative calm. In fact the state can disarm you only at peace time. In case of sudden SHTF, the guns you own will remain in your hands. You must have ammos because the only thing the state will be able to do is secure the gun store.
@@BFOP15 thank you, this is a valid point you made.I guess that is why they are trying to disarm us before anything happens... Since years it is getting more and more restricted and difficult to own guns here...
Polymer mags and relatively light 5.56 ammo. Yea, I'm inclined to have more than 4 mags because its insurance for who knows what and it isn't that heavy.
Blackhawk down, and they were trained to dump mags that were empty. That changed real quick after that. Physical limitations is the only reason to be short on ammo. It only took one walking assault during training for me to see how fast you can run empty even on Semi Auto.
when I was active duty [late 80's] cav scout seriously, we only fired 80 rounds a year. a little more if you count the few we did zeroing. Fired lots of blanks but nothing like we should have in live ammo.
No belt fed.
No grenades
No Rockets
No Artillery
No Air Support
You arent John Wick
Hit and run is the only way.
The longer a fight goes on, the more chance you are going to get hit.
John Wick is all fake anyway. Keep training and keep Prepping my friends.
It's actually better to fall back and draw your enemy into chasing you. Advancing is harder than retreating and causes more casualties.
@@lorneiggulden7123 that plus sabatoge, and booby trap. Stopping logistics is the primary goal in the future scenario.
Especially if you are alone, and there are too many unknown variables. If you don't know who it is or how many it's best to get the heck away. Only go foward when it's under your terms, and not theirs
Better Not to be seen and Not heard , let the danger pass.....
Water and magazines are the two things you don't want to run out of.
And sanity.
And tourniquets...
@@bokc_nonpopularsalt1011 IF I have to worry over the # of Tourniquets I brought, then I TRULY F-ed Up & deserve my fate.. 🇺🇸
@@Brett235welp, half of us are already screwed then! 😆
I think you meant to say, those are the things you will run out of and you will be done.
The biggest lesson I learned about gunfights is that half the battle is just figuring out where the enemy is shooting at you from. Even though you know what direction the enemy is shooting from, that doesn’t necessarily mean you know where they are shooting at you from.
Exactly,,🤙 understand every word..🤣🤙🤙🤙
We has some trouble with seeing where bullets were bring fired from in Iraq When on Guard duty or convoy. Bullets would wiz by our towers and we would hear the shot percussion afterward. We never actually saw where the fire was coming from. Of course it was one or two shots at a time. Very random.
There was more of a pattern to mortar attacks. Usually 3 rounds were fired and then nothing. Sometimes there would be dud rounds that would not go off. At the time I was thinking the rounds came in a box of three. They were using buried mortar tubs across the highway from our base and sometime they would fire them from the back of a pickup truck on MSR Tampa.
Agree
Obviously you just gotta check your compass for red blips, right?
Yup, and water and magazines!
Shooting in the direction of a target as opposed to shooting at a target is the main reason so much ammo is used in military conflicts. That is the difference between the number of rounds fired by those on patrol who find themselves in fire fights and the number of rounds fired by snipers. Rule of thumb is one can never have enough ammo but how much one can carry is the deciding factor.
Military protocol in general is nonsense for the individual civilian. US military SOP is especially nonsensical for the individual civilian because they have near infinite ammo supply to suppress and pin down and artillery/aviation support to do the actual killing and have near instant medevac and multiple team members to continue suppression when one goes down. As a one or two man patrol you had better never allow yourself to be engaged, as a single hit can put an end to all your return fire possibilities. An ambush initiating with a .22lr hit to the armpit will make you a stumbling loot box with your 300 round load.
EXCELLENT analysis
@@burgundypointexactly what I just posted as a question. Who is going to supply the average citizen his ammunition so he can use suppressive fire? Therefore it doesn’t look like the average citizen will be resupplied enough ammunition to use suppressive fire then.
Question is how to figure out the enemy's position accurately when I get ambushed
@@burgundypoint Great points. This is similar to sport fencing (e.g. kendo) versus real life. In a GENUINE SHTF scenario where 911 isn’t an option, every move you make will have an extreme consequence if you’re on the wrong side of the risk assessment.
People think they’ll go “patrol” their backyards, neighborhoods, or 40 acres. Really? Okay…you CAN. Is it going to give you some sort of tactical/strategic advantage versus, say, being in a well fortified position with 24 hour security, augmented with force multipliers like night vision, thermal capable drones, and a trained, disciplined, team? Even without expensive technology…just tin can intrusion detection, binoculars from Walmart, and some barbed wire to create denial areas, funnels, etc.
Seriously, folks. I think the .22 in an armpit is an excellent point. It doesn’t take much to make you dead-but-don’t-know-it. Reality is brutal.
You will die with the equipment you carry. You can die with a two empty magazines or eleven empty mags around you. Be hard to kill.
I mean, you could also die with two empty magazines or die with 11 full mags exactly where you put them because you went into the woods carrying nothing but an sbr with an eotech. I get wanting alot of ammo, but the average civilian is fine with a red dot/holographic for home defense and night vision... and that's about it. For any other use case a good magnified optic is much more of a force multiplier than having 4 more mags.
Right, im sitting on about 1400 rounds and 3 556 mags 3 22 LR mags and 3 pistol mags red dot and magnifier and no night vision lol@klee1410
I require an ammo supply point
@@K.Miller5150 more mags !
@@K.Miller5150 Which will carry you through how many mag dumps per firefight? SHTF! There is no re supply
I am a vet but not a combat vet. I served during one of those weird times when we were not at war. Those of you that are combat vets, I hold you in high regard and I appreciate you for sharing your knowledge, gained thru experience.
At 66 years old, I doubt that I will ever be on patrol. If I am, then you know that crap has really hit the fan, big time and no one is going to have the life they once had.
Communities survive these scenarios anyway, not lone wolves. All these tubers like to jerk off to this fantasy of them being one man wrecking crews with all the women in the post apocalyptic world. Its hilarious. No sir - you've done your time, you'd leave the patrolling to someone more my age, mid thirties to do that. You sir in a SHTF situation would be wisely used more at the home base, for a number of things. Your value would be 10x at the base camp, versus out there doing the young mans bullshit.
Thank you for your service
I served during Desert Storm but never deployed overseas, and I also have a huge respect for those who did. If I'm ever inadvertently in a firefight like he described while out in the woods, I'm just SOL with my one mag, sidearm, pocket knife, and a beer. 🤣
@@paulis7319we’re all in your position. Realistically we are not ready. I estimate that it would take a minimum of 10 dedicated families to survive a SHTF situation, and we should have already done the work. It’s too late to be well prepared for most of us.
@@SDGLFDNC Yep, I'm a caregiver for my 87 year old mom on a 115 acre farm with no "next door" neighbors, and all the other people within a five mile radius are much older than I am, and way way way more out of shape (I'm 53 and workout+cardio).
Infantry guy here i can tell you from experience ammo resupply never comes as fast as you need it too we carried a basic load of 210 rounds 6 mags plus one in the gun ! after a few fire fights we quickly learned that double basic load was the reality of what we needed so 420 rounds so 12 mags plus one in the gun !
I’m assuming resupply isn’t coming.
Your math ain't mathing...
12 mags plus one in the gun is 390rds.
@@themeltingpoint3867bruh, he's infantry, not intelligence
@@themeltingpoint3867 if i was any good at math i wouldn’t have joined the infantry 🤣 point is basic load ain’t even close to enough !
Cholera and other diseases will take you out before the wet dream fire fight
Hold your fire, conserve ammo, don’t fire until you can clearly read the UN on those blue helmets.
Where you from Romeo tango ?
😂😂😂
Mm yes war crimes.
They do look good red
@cultleader3572 Oh alright that’s good.
I am a 12 year US Army Infantry combat veteran. I have never had less than 13 magazines in my kit.
A lot of SpecOps guys have 3-4 on the chest and usually a few mags on their backs, mission dictates.
..... and suffered no ill effects or regrets, I will assume!
@@dennisbarrett6148 Just knee and back pain into my 40's! LOL
The special operator kit usually revolves around mission parameters that allow for high intensity short duration with backup and air support. I also heavily advocate for carrying a standard combat load minimum, with spare ammo in stripper clips in your backpack. At least. However, your main objective shouldnt be getting into firefights in a shtf situation regardless.
Once I heard guys talking about this subject, I decided I didn’t have enough mags. Still buying them. I have 14, I’m going to buy a lot more.
In combat, I carried 14 mags for my M4 and 10 mags for my M9 (MTOE issued both) plus 2 frags. I planned on not getting my head cut off on Al Jezeera TV, while kneeling in an orange jumpsuit.
My 2 cents. If I'm patrolling, this tells me I'm in a non-permissive environment, or other circumstances requires that I patrol. This means that 2 or 3 mags is insufficient.
Each must determine what they will or won't do. Choose carefully.
The problem is that you will not have a taxpayer funded logistics system to re supply. If you mag dump in a firefight, your homestead will run dry very quickly
"If your mailbox is your first line of defense, you have already lost" Pastor Joe Fox of Viking Preparedness
Training Sargent Said in potential Combat zone you carry as much as you can carry
@@joebachmeier6747 How much do you have stockpiled back at the homestead?
@@joebachmeier6747 Sergeant*
Modern infantry tactics don't apply to SHTF situations. It's always wild to me that people think they're going to dump 12 mags in a sustained engagement and come out un scythed. Survival is always disengaging.
Most people never been in a gun fight and think it’s going to be cinematic or like a video game. You can be tact’d out and all it takes is one round to hit you in the leg or arm and your dead anyways in a shtf grid down scenario.
Hi Stoker, In RVN ‘69, I carried 3 bandoliers of 7 - 20 rd mags slung, with another 4 bandoliers in my rut, 1 mag in my weapon. In one horseshoe ambush (27 Aug 69), I appeared to be one of the very few who still had ammo. At the end of that day, 47 went home wounded.
Welcome home soldier, thank you for your service.
Thank you for your service! My uncle Master SGT Larry Helms is one of my heros. Did 2 tours in Vietnam. Sent home with malaria. I remember him coming home in 1970. A giant to me. 6'2" in height but my father said he only weighed 123lbs at the time. Grandfather WWII and Korea. Military family back to Revolutionary War, Capt Connelly under George Washington. God bless our military, past, present and future! God bless you all!
I’ve run out of ammo in combat, it’s not happening again in any scenario if I can help it. When I go out on my property it’s at least 2 magazines. If I’m fighting the war for restoration it’s going to be all I can manage.
Word! 🥃🍻🪂🫡🇺🇸
cache=priceless
That's like if you run out of stamina in a fight. Happened to me and after that i vowed to never let that happen again, started running after.
The war for restoration. That has a nice ring to it.
@@politicalsheepdog Indeed it does.
In boot camp a drill Sergeant asked me how many rounds you carry into battle. So I counted the magazine pouches on my gear and timesed it by 30 and came up with 180 rounds. He said no, you carry as many as you can cram into every pocket and nook and cranny on your gear.
Amen... fire fight in Balad, Iraq 2008...
We went in with 300 rounds each... 43 minutes later, when the shooting stopped, I counted 12 among my 5 rounds remaining among my team.
@@raywilson8707 Just made it.
That’s in a war not at home where you might see 2 hostile s
@@kbkesq When I was younger I had a 44 magnum and I had 5 speed loaders on my pistol belt and a pouch for loose rounds (50). Winchester silver tipped hollow points. Never hurts to have it and not need it.
, the way they are coming across the boarder, we will have a hell of a lot more then 2 hostiles
Mike Tyson said it perfectly "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".
Have you been punched in the mouth?
@@jjr929 Not recently but yes.
@@ROE675 why do you all quote one of the most evil people in history....Tyson is a rapist, you idolize rapists
I keep 5 rifle mags on my plate carrier, one on my belt, and one in my gun, and even more in my pack. I think this is enough to maintain a small fire fight, but my goal isn't to win a gun fight, its to sustain myself long enough to get out of a firefight.
Agreed
If you don't win the gunfight, you will lose the gunfight. Violent confrontation is a zero-sum game. Godspeed.
I feel the same way
@@sebastiandiaz5682 my goal in a gunfight isnt to come out on top, its to come out alive. The more i try and come out on top, the more likely i am to die. Obviously my goal is also to elimate my threat, but if the option to evade is there, im taking it.
I’d read someplace once that it was about 2k rounds per verified casualty in Vietnam. Great video. Part of the reason that round count is so high is addressed in a brilliant book called On Killing. Basically states that humans simply inherently don’t want to kill each other and that we’d rather scare each other off. There’s a lot of psychology behind that. I just came across your channel today. Solid video and great wisdom
Thats insanely interesting… and says a lot about how god intended us to behave.
@@Mountain_bonker it’s a brilliant book it’s by Lt. Col Dave Grossman. He was a military psychologist that studied effects of killing of soldiers. It’s a studies in violence.
I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but that book is quite controversial. A lot of later studies done tend to outright debunk or revise Colonel Grossman’s findings
@@andrew1498 I’d actually like to read those. I found the book to actually be quite logical. Many of his views are very much human nature.
@@brianfondofbbq A great book for sure. He did later books which revised his original findings. An example is the first book had the research sample of 19 year old conscripts in Vietnam and studied them/that.
As can be expected, with their rushed training, unwillingness on the part of many to even be there in the military, the individual replacement program for in-field replacements in Vietnam (Very different to the Australian scheme there) and the release from service near immediately after their Vietnam tour was complete, and unpopular nature of the war at home, it was very different to that of a WWII volunteer, or a multiple-tour GWOT veteran with 25 years of service behind him.
The newer book is titled 'On Combat'.
I was an 0311. I was a SAW gunner up until the M27 IAR replaced the SAW and i had to carry 22 mags initially. It was a fucking nightmare.
Above all else, you must seriously ask yourself and be realistic:
"If I'm carrying X amount of mags/ammo, can I maintain the physical requirements to return fire, and break contact?"
I just weighed my Agilite PC with 2 RMA lvl 4 plates and 4 fully loaded mags and it came out to 29lbs.
That's not including a water source, rations, basic medical supplies, or comms.
I am willing to bet with all that stuff included I'd be right around 40-45lbs.
Can you in your current physical state break contact? Keep in mind this isn't a blanket universal practice. Breaking contact looks very different in a open rural area compared to an urban space. Breaking contract in a rural area can mean sprinting 300+ meters (that's also a conservative number.)
Things to think about
Store food water and ammo in your home and pray you dont have to bug out
there is nowhere to bug out too. All the easy pickings are accounted for. Stand your ground.
No buggin out for me life in the woods would suck enough to make me wish i was dead I'm standing strong at my castle if my wife and children want to leave they can....not me.
@universallaw8850 if I had land I go out hunting or fishing on it, but I'm in the city, my whole plan is to bug in, my house can carry all the food water and ammo I can store
@@Thekulprit92 i have 6acres its not a lot but i enjoy it all the same but absolutely wouldn't want to live in a freaking tent.
Absolutely
Too many guys equate SHTF to the military.... They are not the same thing.
You're not trying to win fights, you're trying to avoid them. You're not out on patrol, you're hunkering down and trying to survive.
*IF* you get in a gun fight at all, it's likely going to be Over within a matter of seconds. You won't even have time to reload. There are no firefights in SHTF.
MOST of the threats you will encounter will not have AR-15's. They will have Bolt action deer rifles or pistols or shotguns. 400 million guns in America only 20 million are AR's. That's only 5%.
These people aren't carrying 200+ rounds. They're using hit and run tactics.
Your Goal during SHTF should be to be fast, mobile, AND NOT MAKE YOURSELF A TARGET.
Watched 1 guy say when he was in combat his load out was 14 mags. The reason he started with 7 and did the mission then they had to fight there way out multiple times. He swore he wasn't running out of ammo if he could help ever again.
there 's no reason, in shtf, for you to be out of your tunnel in daytime. At night, with a subsonic ammo option, a silenced auto-rifle, armor, night vision, solar charger, spare battereis, there's very little reason to miss, ever, and you'll recover guns and ammo from dead bodies. Carrying 14 lbs of ammo and mags is a load of bs. Since the advent of the AK, not a single surviving MOH winner has had to hit more than 5-6 men with his rifle. IF you need more than 60 rds to do that, you'll never make it.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h gotta consider the possibility that your adversary will have night vision or thermal capabilities as well
14 loaded magazines is a lot of weight. Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal stress on the body. Add that to a chest rig with a med kit, pistol mags, camelback and other gear, that would be tough to do for very long.
@@Brett23514 loaded AR mags is ~14lbs. 14 pounds of additional weight, while it may make life uncomfortable, should not decide one's mobility level.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h dude thinks he’s gonna live in a tunnel with night vision 😂😂😂😂
I have no expertise in this area so take this for what is worth (almost nothing), but I think the types of scenarios you are preparing for won’t benefit from military style patrolling and drills. With no medical support or evacuation infrastructure it will almost always be better to fall back and regroup in a hardened location
You say that until you're surrounded and outnumbered at your safe haven with your loved ones.
Best scenario for the worst scenario. If your location gets hot and you have no community left to count on, get out with what you can. Know your area and all roads, even the pig trails and get moving. It's harder to kill a moving target. This is all dependent upon how many family members you have, how agile they are and how burdensome they will be. A man and his kids could make it out, but if the kids are 10 and under them you're going to have a problem. Granny and papaw aren't going anywhere. Family members with health issues are not going to make it long, sadly enough.
@@Bryan-uw1nysounds like if that happened you didn’t stand a chance to start with.
@@Bryan-uw1ny Happened with Ukraine. There's even footage on youtube of it. They ended up having to bug out.
I was Airborne Infantry late 80s early 90s in Vicenza. My platoon SGT, like many of our senior NCOs, was a Vietnam vet. He asked us how much ammo we think we need out there. He said, " All of it."
My opinion: when it kicks off, small communities will rapidly come togeather.
Gear is important, but being part of a community and having plans to rapidly building up a force of capable adults to defend your community.
All the cool guy gear in the world is nothing compared to having 20-100 other capable adults on your side.
30 years ago most people would have shotguns and hunting rifles. Now most armed people are going to have AR-15s. There are like 20 million of them in the USA now, or 1 for every 10 adults or so of fighting age.
People think they have an AR and a plate carrier some Instagram influencer convinced them they need for SHTF.
Most of the folks engaged will likely have a semi auto mag fed rifle and a chest rig or carrier of some sort.
More ammo is good, but more than 12 mags it's better to have 12 friends. Nothing wrong with having both though.
Good point
You're thinking like a true patriot. We MUST come together as communities, regardless of how big or small. Sharing resources, knowledge and power is the only thing that will keep more people alive longer.
@@Brett235 As long as that community is prepper minded. IMO not all or few really are. If you have such you are blessed.
I think 20 mil.may even be a low estimate....I'd say half the people who have one have more than one.
I'd like to upvote this more than once. Gear is fine, but allies and supplies are king.
On point. 8-10 Stanags on my chest rig, keep a couple extra in my patrol/ day pack for typical extreme condition and non-permissive situations. Doing ERT and PSD's in Contracting (also non-permissive environment), we would have 8-10 minimum on us (plus one in the gun) at any given time, with much more to boot in the vehicles, reacting to contact saw us burning multiple mags and belts in suppressive and target-direct fire.
In a sustained gun fight, ammo will be chewed through.
CAV guy here, I can tell you that the ammo resupply typically comes 2 to 3 days late if at all. especially if you the furthermost element and your cut off no help is coming to you. We typically travel with 14 mags on average per person.
The 3 mag fad is a psyop. You can never have too much ammo and magazines.
Unless you’re on fire or drowning
@@adamhenry5791 .......... and old men and older women can't carry more than three....
even 6 or 8 mags wont help if you're out there without a support of other team members or if you're fighting the fight without support. it may look easy, but i highly encourage people to try airsoft matches against pros and beginners . i have some experience in military tactics, but got owned by total noobs on airsoft site. why? because they dont know or follow military doctrine as rest of grunts do. you're taught how to fight to the point that its reaction more than a decision. on the other hand civvies thinks different and acts different too. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE people who arent "military skilled".
My only counterpoint is actual firearms defeat concealment where as airsoft bb’s do not.
@@alexbell8865 true, won't argue there. My intention was only to show people how quickly one can be "dead" even if fighting an inferior opponent . I've played with guys who had little knowledge about fighting, but we're resourceful and able to think " outside of the box", and despite heavy losses on our side, we beat the team of well trained professional soldiers. When direct confrontation is certain suicide, retreat or turn to guerilla style warfare.
@@ApocGuy I agree with you there. Thinking outside the box and employing unconventional tactics can prove to be very effective.
One thing I look at in a scenario like this in wooded areas is to use my environment to my favor, such as setting up boobytraps, ect. but knowing which one to setup and how to do it properly. Things like this can and will at some point either buy you some time and even save your life as well as lowering the number game you face. Learn any and all boobytraps, this can be another tool in the toolbox for use. Stay strapped and alert guy's.
Yes sir....glad my dad taught me a few things he learned in Vietnam as an airborne green beret that he learned from some of the US friendly forces that were local tribesman.........nobody, and i mean nobody would try to follow me through the woods once i set up a few slow down measures😊😊😊 best to just turn around and go home in one piece
How would you learn something like this is you don't have anyone to teach you? I'm curious about what you said. I think it's a good idea. I just wouldn't have a clue where to start.
I don't with a lot of this stuff! Lol
Stoker, I am going to encourage everyone to get your SHTF book and read it. I did yesterday and have only got through the sign cutting and moving surveillance chapters. They are spot on target!
My background for saying this is: I grew up hunting and tracking game and shooting. I spent three years in the Infantry in the Army, then passed the tests and was hired by the Border Patrol, after four years I transferred to the Customs Agency Service and in 1973 was absorbed into DEA.
While I was in the Border Patrol, we spent a lot of time sign cutting and tracking aliens entering the US. Sign cutting was serious work for the Border Patrol, and it probably still is when they are not doing paperwork during the current invasion.
While I was with Customs and DEA we did a lot of moving vehicle surveillance, and your book perfectly describes the techniques we used. BTW: The longest vehicle surveillance I was on started in Corpus Christi, Tx to San Antonio, to El Paso, then to Albuquerque, NM and then to a dirt landing field east of Albuquerque. We only had three vehicles and six agents on the surveillance. The suspect spent the night in motels in San Antonio and Albuquerque and we "slept" in our vehicles.
Once we arrived at the dirt landing strip, an aircraft landed, and the pilot and our subject met. The next morning the aircraft departed and headed to the Mexican border. By that time a Customs aircraft was on the scene and continued the surveillance until they "burned" it close to the border. Really irritating!
Anyway, so far, I have been really impressed with your book and am looking forward to reading the rest. Some real good info!
what's the title author?
@@ericevans5435 It is SHTF Field Manual by Stoker.
Volume of fire for the military is not the same as for civilians, we will not have the resupply they do. A topic I rarely hear is the different types of fire volume, sustained, suppression, covering, final etc.. it seems most just think mag dump. I am a firm believer that it does not take 1000s of rounds fired to be proficient. Do the drills, snap in for majority of time spent, shoot a min of a couple times a year some to stay accurate. Shoot more if you want but it's not necessary to be proficient.
Snapping in can be really important. We spent an entire week doing this before ever firing a round at the range. They had a 55 gal. drum paint white with white dots painted on it. We'd get about 10 or so yards away and learn to do it right...body position, sight picture, breathe, squeeze, no flinch, etc. Really helps.
😂
Exactly. These guys are taking the mentality meant for a large occupying military force against worse equipped opponents. This is not insurgent mentality needed for shtf.
What is snapping in?
I just asked that question. Who is resupplying this ammunition so they can use suppressive fire?
I was always amazed at the sheer number of rounds per KIA until I learned about suppressive fire, fire and maneuver and air support.
The vast majority of KIA are caused by explosions, both the concussion and shrapnel.
Just did a 2.5 mile ruck running 6 on chest one in gun along with 3 side arm mags. Easy work. Going to take your advice and bump it up to 10 mags next time.
I'm not fighting like that in a SHTF scenario.....you immediately break contact ,retreat and set a counter ambush.
100% 🫡
That's what I'm figuring too, tracking and counter tracking and setting up a proper ambush are going to be much more important knowledge but it never hurts to know a little but of everything
Should still carry 10 or more mags since you probably don't have resupply or if you do you don't always know if you're group will leave you or not
@@DodoYuhhr I agree, my rig carries about 12 rifle mags, excluding any in a backpack
Exactly fight like the mongols
This is why I carry a phase plasma rifle in 40 gigawatt range. Works every time all the time!
I’ll be baackk..!!!🇺🇸
I find that it only works 100% of the time 70% of the time 🤔
And where does one get one of those at?
Where did you get that? Asking for a friend..
Just what's on the rack buddy
Way too many people on the internet think theyre going up against a platoon of guys and living to tell the tale.
If its 1v1 you have a 50% chance plus modifiers for element of surprise, tactics, skill and a hair of luck to make it out alive. That gets way worse with just one more against you, or two.
Break contact and dissapear. The more mags you dump the more attention you draw, and sure MAYBE youll spook the other guys into giving up chase. But thats a hefty risk. Act accordingly to your mission.
Worse, they think any SHTF period would involve an occasional voluntary participation for a nearby 10am-2 pm shoot-em-up, then go back home and see what's on the stove.
@@Jimbeaux haha that's a great way to put it.
First time I went on patrol with a SOF unit, I was told the first rule of a gunfight is to bring a shotgun and plenty of shells.
After SHTF , truthfully, most people will be more concerned about food and water . Gunfights will probably be few and far between . Those gunfights will be close quarters, quick and violent , very few rounds . Can the other happen possibly , yes, of course . But wasting all your ammo supply on one or two jackasses doesn’t make sense either .
Once your out if ammo your screwed
Important to know that in an SHTF time, there won’t be a resupply which should inform the decision on how much to carry.
Know the property on which you will be defending. Have multiple stash points places throughout along with multiple options for defensive positions. Look into force multipliers as well, traps, kill zones, best places to immobilize vehicles, create hardships for the enemy, etc.
if its shtf you wanna stay quiet and out of the way not heading out in the morning for the daily firefight you will end up dead.
You didn't mention the shaking and the vision changes during your first fire fight. Even during OverWatch you sweat and other things with minimal movement.
to train this I walk in my neighborhood yelling profanities and racial slurs. It gets the adrenaline pumping and fight mentality kicking in while doing cardio.
@@jayjason423 THAT'S WHAT I USED TO DO...😇
Standard load out for non permissive or permissive environments for a rifle man (30round magazine) is 210 rounds. X7 mags included a weapon in amber status.
In a shtf world. My setup that is hanging in my closet as we speak has 8 AR-15 mags & 4 .40 cal pistol mags. Next to that sits a 60 round AR15 drum and a 100 round AR15 drum. Both of which I would consider disposable in the situation. One and done. But they sure are big ones!
The shtf dream is exactly that.. a dream. Because when it actually happens, its going to be a f-in nightmare!
,,,,,,,,,,,, that and,,,,,,,, I love our leaders here but their dream will be a nightmare; IMO what is coming to America in the form of war will be different than any of us vets could imagine or experienced. Just my .02.
It'll look more like Northern Ireland circa 1980 than Mad Max. I very, very much doubt that we'll see a full spectrum collapse of order.
Things never go as planned do they?
I fired almost 14 mags one time crossing the street in Fallujah one time. Plan accordingly
Sounds like a wild story.
The old Fallujah hide and seek…
I ain't staying in one spot after 2
Fukn Hell.
@@alexbell8865 we got called in to try to flush out a IED trigger man. Had support from tanks but when everything was done they abandoned us on the wrong side of the street. Was a big open stretch and the Mujh was waiting for the 100 yard dash Olympics.
To fight you must move
To move you must suppress
To suppress you must put consistent rounds on target for multiple minutes
Carry 6-18 mags
I was looking at those russian Zaslov guys whos job is to protect hvts and they rock drum mags as their mag in rifle. The more I think about it the more it makes sense, especially if the goal is to brake contact and move.
@@Hamm3rstr1k3 if contact is likely, drums in rifles makes the most sense.
I knew a Viet Nam vet who said he carried only water and ammo on patrol. He said his ruck was super heavy filled with nothing but mags.
As someone who has been through an ambush he is not wrong. One thing he forgot was you or your buddy being wounded having to manage that as well. I was that wounded guy had part of my face dangling and you better believe cranking off a mag or two at probably nothing or a general area is going to happen. You may not even fire in the general a vicinity you may be firing 90° off from where the enemy actually is. Also do not forget you are going to fire every time you withdraw/advance or maneuver and if you stay still the enemy is going to maneuver on you closing you in till you cannot fire in all the direction they are firing at you. Just because you are not firing in the exact spot of the enemy it may keep them from moving or keep them down if the rounds are close enough for them to hear the supersonic crack.
In a SHTF scenario and no 911 to help, being fit or healthy is paramount, maintaining a water and food source is ultra important, and avoiding aggression and avoiding movement at all cost will help you survive longer than anything else. If you’re in a firefight with someone or a lot of someones… you done messed up already, in a post apocalyptic where help is not coming, catching a .22LR with any part of your body is a life threatening emergency, someone can shoot you with a pellet gun, depending on where you get hit and without medical attention, the know-how, or the antibiotics for infections… a pellet can literally take your life in a few days. Limit mobility would be another important thing in my book, a broken leg or arm from a serious fall or accident can kill you or leave you on the ground to die of dehydration in a few days, bow and arrow guys carrying arrows with broad heads in a quiver o pouch and you fall on top of them after tripping on something and they slice right into your abdomen, your back, or on the side of your rib cage (it’s happened before and people have bled to death because of it IN A NON APOCALYPTIC WORLD) Wildlife… a SNAKEBITE can kill you in a matter of hours without medical attention, not to mention certain venomous bugs like spiders or scorpions or disease carrying bugs like fleas, ticks, or mosquitoes, a bite or sting from any of those will put you out of the fight in a few days and without any medical care or treatment… you will die in a very horrible way in a few days of gangrene or fevers. Think about anything in your ordinary life (non post-apocalyptic world) that will send you to the ER or at least to CVS to get some medication, now just think that these attentions won’t be available… it’s scary to think about people 150 years ago (before antibiotics, penicillin, or modern medicine) where a cut or a scrape would be considered a life altering experience, it’s been made fun of in Family Guy where Peter is on a boat on the high seas coming to America and he gets a splinter in his hand and tells everyone “it was nice knowing you guys” it’s funny to think about, but in all reality, it’s the truth. There’s a sht ton of things people don’t think about in their delusion, they think they’re just gonna walk out to the woods, Rambo through the apocalypse, and start a colony… when in all reality THEY’RE PROBABLY GOING TO DIE NO MORE THAN 5 MILES FROM THEIR HOUSE.
I live in a communist state and only allowed 10 round per magazine :( i need to move out of here man
Fighting in the woods is absolute hell. Urban warfare is said to be worst. But idk something about the woods and having so much shit to blend with just makes things a lot harder to see.
funny historical fact ,many times more kia's per shot were achieved with arrows than with guns in massed battles . I believe Agincour was something like 1 frenchman per 20 arrows . the worst ,or best ,depending on how blood thirsty you are and/or don't like men in dresses [ kilts ]. Dupplin Moor where the rate may have been even lower yet, with a 2000 man army running out of targets ,and probably horrified ,when the up to 10 000 man Scots army finally ran out go . Plus arrows can often be retrieved ,and or repaired .
No chance head on head , but lots of hunters love sitting in trees for 12 hours and drop things that move .. Dont have the ammo drops than best learn to snipe and snipe a tic off a dogs ass id say .. or better yet move away turn drop fire from long distances and keep heading away . I have 0 intentions on head on confrontations put my energy in being a shadow way long before id work on army grunting head on force f that . Go where no one wants to be cold ice snow freezing learn how to survive there its not hard .
Professional experience says enough is never enough. Pack as much ammo as you can carry quietly and quickly for quite a while… beyond that, the lay person should shelter in place and only engage immediate threats when absolutely necessary.
I look at the guys saying three mags and then ask myself, “why would they be telling me that three mags is enough?” The only logical answer is that “they” want us under equipped if it ever came down to it. Scary to think about. The real ones are the guys telling you that you need more. When you think you have enough, stow away some more. Outlast the fire fight.
500 yards is break contact distance. We could maneuver in, and expel that ammo. In my mind it’s better to just break contact to live and fight your fight.
He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day😊..........ever hear the song about the swamp fox??
It's really not that deep
@@arighteousname5882 it’s always that deep.
So I've been thinking about this for quite some time now... Considering how many i need to carry for concealed carry every day.
My answer arrived in the form of a declaration i had to do on a guy who opted out. He had .45 glock and magazines and additional firearms and a grenade under his thigh. The police were slightly shocked.
This is the answer I was looking for. All of them. Two on me and one in my side arm and the rest in my day bag which is always with me. all my magazines.
So interesting that ive been considering this and thinking about it the past few days and then that situation and now this video.
Its because they look at all the former SF gear videos and don't understand the WHY of any of what those guys are saying. They went into GWOT carrying 12 and up. but started carrying less and less. Gunfights got shorter, and support assets because much more available. And most of the guys with youtube channels always talk about being on recon missions. NOT snatch and grabs or assaults. So of course on a recon where you have guaranteed CAS support and you have to march 20 miles your not gonna carry a shit ton of weight if you can avoid it.
I carry bright orange balls in my high velocity paint ball gun when I am engaging Dog, the Bounty Hunter
I'm a combat Vet, when I carried an M4, combat load was 210 rounds. I had 400 easy at any time. When I carried the m249, combat load was 600 rounds, I carried 1000.
Easy now son.
I dont even leave the house without at least 10 loaded 30tys for a simple trip down the road. 11 being in the Rifle.
The Rifle hardcase holds 10. If im working my plate carrier it holds 6 loaded mags itself.
If i can make it back home before the full SHTF storm. Ive got double that in storage.
If you can find one that runs good. A 100 round drum a couple goes along way with the others. A good scope. Is definitely a must have. A good brand name 3x9x32 with mill dots with reticles that turn on to red or green. Depending upon the backdrop.
A couple of backup M4s is also worth stocking up on.
At least 3. 1 DD4 with detachable Nite optics. An 2 Smith&Wesson M&P 15. With the option to use more freedom seeds per trigger pull. One of the wesson is a everyday carry. The other is still sealed in plastic as a fallback. If something happens to the 1st.
10 thousand rounds is a good starting point. 12thousand is lucky number to me.
A good 30-06 with a long range scope. Ammo to match
A good 338 is nice to have for reaching out an stopping a threat while its still a few football fields away. Ammo for it is a little expensive.
Im a huge fan of my Barrett 50. With a few 100 rounds at minimum.
I also like to carry a 40cal.
In backup of that a 357 revolver.
I say 357 cause i can shoot both 38spl an 357 out of it. With Ammo to match.
Ive spent a few years collecting an storing ammo, firearms an medical supplies.
If you got the means an the property to do it on.
A good storage room more like a sealed vault. Climate controlled an preferable under the dirt. For storing all my extras. A good set of plates an backup carrier. The Spartan Armor AR 600 lev4 + is a good yet reasonable priced plate
One thing about living in the rural mountains is privacy and very few neighbors.
No one thinks to much about some concrete trucks an building materials getting pumped an delivered. If you dont have any neighbors to watch what's being built on your property is even better. If something was to happen. Either i make it. Or someone stumbled upon a gold mine.
Guess what. It's not a video game. Zero resets. No round counter . No reload. The idea is to not be detected.
Yep
My dad is a Vietnam veteran, served two tours and his best advice to young grunts was to stay low and go slow. Listen to your gut and take nothing for granted. In the jungle it wasn't necessarily the svc that would get you, it was trench foot, snakes, poisonous spiders and rancid water. A case of diarrhea could kill you if you weren't able to get to medical care.
I argue that letting the enemy know where you are can be a wise move, provided you do not attack them or show fear/aggression.
The problem is people can set ambushes and traps with this tactic (such as in the middle eat wars). But if you're VERY open and aren't trying to pull any sneaky tricks (keep that reputation intact) then you can get some interesting results.
I was in the 101st during GWOT. The "data" we were presented as a division was 5000/1 KIA. Obviously 80% of those rds are not even intended to kill, but suppress. If they kill great but that wasn't the objective of a SAW gunner most of the time.
As far as the standard M4 carrying infantryman. I'm guessing it had to be a few hundred to 1.
pie plate size at 100 is good enough for most if under stress... my mag and I use figure 11 hit is good , great video btw
Civilians (or soldiers without infinite resupply) cannot "suppress" the enemy with unarmed spray and pray tactics. We must only shoot accurately with aimed shots, then move out. Shoot and scoot gives one the chance to live and fight another day! Mass quantities of ammo prevent rapid movement and prevent the carrying of enough water and food and anything else with weight. My plan is to carry one of my .308's and 3 mags on the plate carrier, 2 on the belt and 3 in the assault pack. And, of course, one in the gun. That gives me 210 rounds of .308 plus my pistol. That is a lot of aimed shots.
If I am fighting from my home I have a lot more mags and other calibers available. The above is for mobile operations.
Generally speaking the camper who pays attention will have a big advantage over the patrol man.
In basic training, we never fired our rifles on full auto. In BRM, we were instructed in semi auto , three fired for grouping. They were instructing us for ammo conservation. I was in the Army 1990s with the M16A2. I've always used that method right up to now with my AR-15. My thing at first was, I couldn't hit anything well with the right hand side. I switched to left. In no time at all I was 40/40, the drill cadre made me try again, could not believe it, again 40/40.. this is a suggestion, if you are righty, try switching to left, if you are having accuracy issues. The main situation is, practice ammo conservation.
'How many rounds do you shoot a year'... out of which gun?
Problem No.1: Waste of ammo
If you shoot, be sure you are on target!
3 or 4 shots - what for? To clam down? Feeling better now? Amateur ...
Would it be ideal to smoke oneself to the point of shaking arms and legs and then to drills? Would that similate correctly?
LLRP and MACVSOG were known to carry 1 mag per minute of expected gun fight. I remember one guy saying they'd carry like 32 on patrol.
Yeah can you find any pics of that? You get random internet military guys saying this, but can you actually confirm it?
ua-cam.com/video/GKjtFEc2vsY/v-deo.html&si=lC1Jv_AvRBFhvlaa
@@Peaches-i2i Yeah, look in some of the old pictures of 5th group guys carrying their patrol loadouts. Or John Stryker Meyer, the only surviving MACV-SOG guy, talk about patrol ammo.
I have had incoming rounds and as near as I could tell, there was about 45 degrees out from my position, that the incoming rounds could have come from, in that situation it makes it very hard to return effective fire.
During Vietnam, it was reported in a study, that 60 to 65 k rounds were fired on full auto, from 20 round mags, for every one enemy KIA, that's why they went to tri burst.
Going lite, 3 mags in chest rig, 1 on belt 1 in gun, Going heavy with armor 6 on plate, 1 on belt 4 in ruck 1 gun.
Well considering in combat the whole company had 100 rd per Marine so ya if you know your going into a fight or positive battle will come than you need more
Ya... The belt fed guns are what build the KIA statistic.
You and Grunt proof keep me thinking and on my toes. Thanks Stoker.
grunt proof made the exact same point with the same scenario of breaking contact.
The two best guys on UA-cam right now on these topics in my opinion.
Really great channel. Watching from gwinnett county georgia. Im in the thick of suburbia. Shtf central. I need risk mitigation
Anything can work in SHTF situation, if you have all the Tacticool gear great, if all you have is a hunting shotgun, great. Both beat being an unarmed civilian. Anything is better than nothing.
I live on a ranch and only real threat is wildlife. Trespassers encounter that long before ranch hands discover personal affects. In most cases, these idiots are running or hiding from wildlife and our staff is happy to help. Recovering dead trespassers is not pleasant.
so? that has NOTHING to do with shtf, bro. People on working farms or ranches are outnumbered 50 to 1 and the groups of marauders will hit a new place every few days, cause they wont score enough from any one place to sustain them any longer than that. So you'll be attacked again and again if you stay above ground, make noise, or show a light at night.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h yes, just ask the S. African farmers how it went down.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6hI don't know about that. Open country, like parts of the West, are very dangerous grounds of you're up to no good. Someone with a 300 Winchester Magnum and a good scope will be a real threat at 800 yards. Movements will have to be at night, and most of these ranchers have night or thermal goggles for hogs and coyotes.
@@jayjason423Zimbabwean before. South African now. Famr murders are rife.
@@Brett235 Most ranchers and farmers will be better suited for shtf than the boogiewoogie larpers on their patrols in the woods next to their suburbs.
Our standard load out was 210 rounds, I told the guys carry 1 extra magazine, also carry the same load out on stripper clips.
At my age it doesn't really matter as long as I take some with me
Standard load out, plus a few extras in assault pack.
In other words (for those who don’t know) that’s 7+.
Answer, depends on the terrain, ammo caliber, expected targets, and whether you have a base or on the move.
"War is HELL..... but actual combat just plain sucks." When someone is shooting at you, with the intent to kill you, your first instinct will be to "mag dump" one or two mags just because it makes you feel better.
Iraq war vet. Ramadi 2004-2005. Minimum 11 mags every patrol. Most gone through in one fight 6.
Nobody ever complained about having too much ammo after a fire fight. I’m not going out on patrol without at least 350 rounds.
We carried 8 mags with the knowledge that backup was never more than 15 minutes away. Most people have no idea how fast a couple hundred rounds will go.
Shoot and scoot. A retired SF E-8 but it this way: If you aren't shooting or reloading be running except when youre doing all three at the sa me time.
how much is the shipping cost on a butt-ton of ammo verses a metric butt-ton of ammo?
Honestly don't take a prolonged gun fight unless you know you have the means of sustaining it. If the odds are not in your favor and you have a way out and your goal is simply to survive then just get out if you can.
For every military combat situation in an shtf you are very right and there is nothing to argue about and nothing to add .
If that ever will happen we all do not know, and if it does how big are the chances of the average civilian to get into that kind of action.
I guess everybody has to decide that for himself.
But for sure i would have at least the capability to be able to.
Specially in the US. Here in Europe and Germany- were i live that risk is - i say minimal.
I was born in the cold war and served my mandatory time in the Bundeswehr in 82/83.
I do legally own guns and hunt/shoot here, i reload and all of that..
Contrary to the common believe we still have quite a few guns in posession.
Of the around 6 million registered guns we own here every gun, gun owner and his address is known to the government.
If kind of that ever happens here they will be knocking on our doors in no time.
And all our guns will be gone...
Magazines for semi - auto rifles are restricted to 10 rounds.
But all that still leaves about 10 million (official estimations by the police/ authoritys) not registered , illegal guns in the posession of people here....
Mostly old stuff from WW1+2 , some leftovers, that came illegally into the country after the kosovo war and some other stuff.
There is no chance for a civilian here to ever be involved in a situation of an extended military firefight ..
One point i like to mention is that in times like your great depression or here right after the war people when life war really hard still people still did tend to not shoot everybody around them ..
In shtf here you would be better armed than the average guy with a .22 target pistol , grandpas .32acp from ww1 or your hunting rifle - if you still have it then...
Sad but true.
Take care over there that you keep your freedom regarding that and never trade it of for false security.
Greetings from Germany.
As a French licensed shooter, maybe less than a week away from major civil unrest I can tell you you're wrong.
Currently in New Caledonia despite a pre civil war state, the French government ( a bunch of traitors) didn't disarm anybody.
Why ? Because when shit happens the state doesn't have the ressources in law enforcement to both manage the civil unrest and disarm law abiding citizens.
(More, law enforcement know they can't face everything and encourage citizens to defend themselves.)
To disarm their citizens, the state must have a long period of time and of relative calm.
In fact the state can disarm you only at peace time.
In case of sudden SHTF, the guns you own will remain in your hands.
You must have ammos because the only thing the state will be able to do is secure the gun store.
@@BFOP15 thank you, this is a valid point you made.I guess that is why they are trying to disarm us before anything happens...
Since years it is getting more and more restricted and difficult to own guns here...
Well said, brother.
Polymer mags and relatively light 5.56 ammo. Yea, I'm inclined to have more than 4 mags because its insurance for who knows what and it isn't that heavy.
Playing paintball as a kid when it was first getting popular was awesome for that adrenaline on the move shooing training.
I always have 11 + mags. 6 or 7 on person and rest in bag. 3 mags would get dumped really fast.
I don't agree with everything you said Stoker, but I really respect you being one of the few with the balls to speak on what's really going on.
What type of supressor are you running?
Blackhawk down, and they were trained to dump mags that were empty. That changed real quick after that. Physical limitations is the only reason to be short on ammo. It only took one walking assault during training for me to see how fast you can run empty even on Semi Auto.
when I was active duty [late 80's] cav scout seriously, we only fired 80 rounds a year. a little more if you count the few we did zeroing. Fired lots of blanks but nothing like we should have in live ammo.
I live in California and we can only have 10 round magazines… not going to war with 21 magazines for a basic kit of 210 rounds.