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Cid: Squall you are way too moody, closed off, and obsessed with orders. Here go hang out with this cute anarchist girl for an indefinite amount of time
Sounds something Epstein would say, I mean he had island too, Garden had same colors... and... oh shit! Squaresoft tried to tell us something and that's why after they switch to Square Enix! That means the faculty was the Iluminatty and the big fat Org exist?!
I really think FF8 would have benefited from party members that weren't involved with Garden beyond Rinoa, perhaps even an adult or two. Characters that could really point out how unsettling these children fighting ob the behalf of adults are or something. Great video!
They are young, but not minors by most of history. They'd be adults if only lacking in experience, though these have been trained in combat and academically. There would be a bit more structure for a military academy if not far more for SeeD, as that would be special forces. The unrealistic part is that would take years to reach unless treated like machines. All in all, they are pretty adult. They just have to follow character tropes because a Japanese game.
They have the trauma and issues that stem from being child soldiers, and it's almost addressed by Rinoa in the first mission when planning the presidential heist, but I feel like FF8 doesn't do enough to acknowledge that being a child soldier isn't normal. Having a town or scene where the characters meet normal kids who really drive home how weird it is would have gone a long way. They somewhat do it in fisherman's horizon with the mayor, but even then it's the ideologies of war vs pacifism between two adults, when really one is a child and the other is nearing retirement.
It's a good point and the only real defence I can think of this being unacknowledged is firstly from a setting perspective these huge Garden academies while bleak seem to be institutionalised and accepted as the way things are (not unlike the Hunger Games or something), and secondly from a writing perspective, while I think seeing normal kids lives would be a great thing to explore (and along with seeing other kids it would also be interesting to see demobilized SeeD veterans and what they're going through), I think so much emphasise is put on Squall's arc that the machinations of the wider world, aside from when they're pushing the plot forward) are left pretty much alone
It's worth noting that outside of towns/gardens there is monsters everywhere, so while it's weird to train child super soldiers, we can also see it as having ways to defend themselves and, of course, others. Ff8 is a world where there is probably more monsters than humans, specially later on in the story
I have a recent episode discussing Seifer and his 'romantic dream' where I touch on this. There's no conclusive evidence either way, but I always thought he remembers the past too... there's a lot of consistencies between past and present like calling Zell 'chicken', having the romantic dream, being drawn to Edea/Matron etc. it just made sense to me.
@AlleywayJack Twas a great video. I watched it twice and would have liked it twice if UA-cam allowed it. I'm not sure if you touched upon it and in all honesty I could be completely miss remembering, but I have a memory of Seifer having a distain for GF summons.
FF8 can be encapsulated by that classic saying "The real child soldiers were the friends we met along the way... for a second time because we were taught to use magic that erases our memories and we forgot the first time. Also that magic is from sentient beings that we beat into submission and now they serve us indefinitely, but we never really talk about it? Also we have to kill our adoptive mom."
Great little analysis. It's a cool thing to think about an alternate time line where Squall does not develop empathy and becomes a merciless SeeD under the orders of Norg. And maybe, just maybe, that's the "Griever" under Ultimecia's commands that we fight.
Loved the depiction of the ideological warfare that went on in this game. One could argue that Seifer represents Free Will that is not driven by Principle, while Squall represents Principle sans Will. They are perfect foils of one another in their similarities and differences. If Seifer had principles to guide his decisions, he might not have self-imploded by the story's end.
Ya know, I never really thought about who or what Norg was or his relation to Balamb garden who even wtf was going on. That part of the game always felt like a complete non-sequitur, but hearing you explain it does help put it in context. I feel like FF8 didn't do a very good job of explaining what was happening. Or maybe I am just misremembering too much of it. Also, SEED dude at 5:20 has a spear! I want a spear! How come we didn't get a spear user in FF8? D:
Mate I don't always agree, but you always put up new and original stuff which is hard for a nearly 30 year old game. Well done for being original and I aprove
Good video. When it comes to analyzing FF8's narrative and ideas, I'd recommend giving a look to Forrest Gump, the 94 movie. Even with no real evidence, I'm fairly convinced it was a big influence in the development of the game, from Laguna's "good-hearted unlikely figure stumbling into world history" character, down to the "feather carried by the wind" motif from the movie's opening being used for the Game's own.
Seifer's interesting in this way because from the very beginning he's presented as someone who's just as formidable as Squall and yet he's later completely undermined by how easy he is to beat in boss fights. From a structural perspective he couldn't be TOO hard to defeat because he immediately precedes a sorceress boss in most cases.... but if they'd made him more formidible, given him more stand-alone boss fights, we could more readily buy-in to him being Squall's equal and basically a God killer :D. ...also thanks for comment I appreciate that 🙏
damn i guess i should play this game again, i sank like 130 hrs to this game and never completed it back in 2000 when i was 10 years old, now that i know about the junction system and actually know what the characters are saying the story should make more sense to me :D
When i first played VIII i was disappointed. I was 17 so i really didn't appreciate some of the characters, especially Rinoa. But thanks to your videos i began to see the beauty of 8's world. I honestly do think SEED is a bit like Kony tbh haha. I also remember that my teenage angst caused me to dislike SeeD, haha. I wonder if a game like this would cause controversy nowadays because of the whole underage soldiers. Your voice never fails to soothe and enlighten. Looking forward to seeing you this 2025.
Well, my brother thinks they resemble those samurai mercenary guys from the earlier Final Fantasys. I guess you can see that they're wearing straw hats, at least, though it's harder to tell in the PS1 version. Their robes seem a bit more modern, though, than the ones worn in previous games. I'm guessing the faculty are modern descendants of those old samurai mercs and that NORG hired them to be his minions, since they only care about money, like him, and are easy to control because of that. Kind of a nice callback to some enemies that some people might not even remember.
as the other reply suggests I think they look vaguely ronin with the jingasa hat etc. I don't see much symbolism in it (unless in a huge plot twist they happen to be jaded former SeeD veterans), but I think the outfits more than anything give them a sense of creepy mystery and menace, as if they don't need identities or personalities because they are just faceless administrators on behalf of NORG
I never understood the dynamics of SeeD. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I always felt like the game was released underdeveloped and incomplete.
I feel like FF8 should take itself a bit more serious. I can't really take the game serious because of how the game world is portrayed. Worldbuilding needed more work put in. The FF8 world feels very tiny with barely anyone living in it.
Eh... they are child soldiers technically. Most of the group is 17... the rest are older if I'm not mistaken. I believe you are permitted join the US military at 17 with parental consent. So while they are technicality child soldiers, not really. Typically when speaking of child soldiers, I'm talking younger than 16 years old.
@@Sinraiser That's his most obvious moment of change, a personal desire pursued over his duties. A complaint I don't often hear is when Squall had just started to be a leader and the team was trying to get him to confess feeling for Rinoa IN THE MIDDLE OF A BATTLE. The writers went full retard at that point and contradicted much what they'd been building up to. He was clearly changing when he took up the leadership role and started to come out of his shell.
You know something I just realize. We have absolutely no idea where Kiros is from. I just realized we got to travel around the world in the game, but we never encountered anyone that dresses like him, reflecting some culture. It's exotic in some respect given his fighting style, too, as the weapons are almost this one type of Indian weapon. Might be thinking too hard and likely an oversight with focusing on character design only as we actually don't encounter any varied cultures in FFVIII world. I think only a few older FFs and FFIX might have only done that before it was part of FFX's story to have that diversity. Tidus is dropped in Besaid, after all.
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British limey
Cid: Squall you are way too moody, closed off, and obsessed with orders. Here go hang out with this cute anarchist girl for an indefinite amount of time
Cid: oh you both got along! Great! Now have this magic lamp that I won't say what's in it if you open it.
The real dark side is Quistis being a dominatrix and cid loving it.
I mean, don't we ALL love it? ;)
Sounds something Epstein would say, I mean he had island too, Garden had same colors... and... oh shit! Squaresoft tried to tell us something and that's why after they switch to Square Enix! That means the faculty was the Iluminatty and the big fat Org exist?!
I really think FF8 would have benefited from party members that weren't involved with Garden beyond Rinoa, perhaps even an adult or two. Characters that could really point out how unsettling these children fighting ob the behalf of adults are or something. Great video!
Using minors to fight pshycopathic political figures with magical powers is some wild s
Welcome to Japanese media 😂
They are young, but not minors by most of history. They'd be adults if only lacking in experience, though these have been trained in combat and academically. There would be a bit more structure for a military academy if not far more for SeeD, as that would be special forces. The unrealistic part is that would take years to reach unless treated like machines. All in all, they are pretty adult. They just have to follow character tropes because a Japanese game.
With recent retreats from child labor protections here in the USA, perhaps it's a preview of coming attractions. 😮
@@blumiu2426 Child soldiers are a human rights violation. "We did it for most of history" isn't a suitable defense for anything.
Historically most were adults by 12-14
They have the trauma and issues that stem from being child soldiers, and it's almost addressed by Rinoa in the first mission when planning the presidential heist, but I feel like FF8 doesn't do enough to acknowledge that being a child soldier isn't normal.
Having a town or scene where the characters meet normal kids who really drive home how weird it is would have gone a long way. They somewhat do it in fisherman's horizon with the mayor, but even then it's the ideologies of war vs pacifism between two adults, when really one is a child and the other is nearing retirement.
It's a good point and the only real defence I can think of this being unacknowledged is firstly from a setting perspective these huge Garden academies while bleak seem to be institutionalised and accepted as the way things are (not unlike the Hunger Games or something), and secondly from a writing perspective, while I think seeing normal kids lives would be a great thing to explore (and along with seeing other kids it would also be interesting to see demobilized SeeD veterans and what they're going through), I think so much emphasise is put on Squall's arc that the machinations of the wider world, aside from when they're pushing the plot forward) are left pretty much alone
It's worth noting that outside of towns/gardens there is monsters everywhere, so while it's weird to train child super soldiers, we can also see it as having ways to defend themselves and, of course, others.
Ff8 is a world where there is probably more monsters than humans, specially later on in the story
For some reason ive always thought that Seifer remembers his time in the orphanage.
wait ok but why is it the same on my end?? I always thought that was why he was doing wtf he was trynna do xD
I have a recent episode discussing Seifer and his 'romantic dream' where I touch on this. There's no conclusive evidence either way, but I always thought he remembers the past too... there's a lot of consistencies between past and present like calling Zell 'chicken', having the romantic dream, being drawn to Edea/Matron etc. it just made sense to me.
@AlleywayJack Twas a great video. I watched it twice and would have liked it twice if UA-cam allowed it.
I'm not sure if you touched upon it and in all honesty I could be completely miss remembering, but I have a memory of Seifer having a distain for GF summons.
FF8 can be encapsulated by that classic saying "The real child soldiers were the friends we met along the way... for a second time because we were taught to use magic that erases our memories and we forgot the first time. Also that magic is from sentient beings that we beat into submission and now they serve us indefinitely, but we never really talk about it? Also we have to kill our adoptive mom."
Great little analysis.
It's a cool thing to think about an alternate time line where Squall does not develop empathy and becomes a merciless SeeD under the orders of Norg.
And maybe, just maybe, that's the "Griever" under Ultimecia's commands that we fight.
... sounds like in a bizarre twist of fate in that world Seifer ends up the hero lool
@AlleywayJack his romantic dream comes true at last haha.
another great vid..... thanks Jack
and thank you for watching man 🙏
S-Rank A 30,000 Gil
You’re commitment to FFVIII is most respectable 🫡
I heard this comment chime.
🙏 thank you sir
You truly understand this game. Thank you for this amazing analysis of this underrated game that has a special place in my heart!
Loved the depiction of the ideological warfare that went on in this game. One could argue that Seifer represents Free Will that is not driven by Principle, while Squall represents Principle sans Will. They are perfect foils of one another in their similarities and differences. If Seifer had principles to guide his decisions, he might not have self-imploded by the story's end.
Ya know, I never really thought about who or what Norg was or his relation to Balamb garden who even wtf was going on. That part of the game always felt like a complete non-sequitur, but hearing you explain it does help put it in context.
I feel like FF8 didn't do a very good job of explaining what was happening. Or maybe I am just misremembering too much of it.
Also, SEED dude at 5:20 has a spear! I want a spear! How come we didn't get a spear user in FF8? D:
The english translation is known to be a little strange tbf. I'm sure that came across way better in japanese.
Mate I don't always agree, but you always put up new and original stuff which is hard for a nearly 30 year old game. Well done for being original and I aprove
Good video. When it comes to analyzing FF8's narrative and ideas, I'd recommend giving a look to Forrest Gump, the 94 movie. Even with no real evidence, I'm fairly convinced it was a big influence in the development of the game, from Laguna's "good-hearted unlikely figure stumbling into world history" character, down to the "feather carried by the wind" motif from the movie's opening being used for the Game's own.
mind blown
Your the Best ff8 UA-camr.
Question. What's the lore concerning how the EFF! did siefer defeat Odin?
Seifer's interesting in this way because from the very beginning he's presented as someone who's just as formidable as Squall and yet he's later completely undermined by how easy he is to beat in boss fights. From a structural perspective he couldn't be TOO hard to defeat because he immediately precedes a sorceress boss in most cases.... but if they'd made him more formidible, given him more stand-alone boss fights, we could more readily buy-in to him being Squall's equal and basically a God killer :D. ...also thanks for comment I appreciate that 🙏
I always felt like NorD was a fourth wall metaphor for Square Enix's producers funding FF games and caring mostly about only profit.
Subscribed, if you keep talking about FF8 forever I'll watch forever. It's the best game of all time and I love it.
Cid looks like Robin Williams
And Matron like Sher
damn i guess i should play this game again, i sank like 130 hrs to this game and never completed it back in 2000 when i was 10 years old, now that i know about the junction system and actually know what the characters are saying the story should make more sense to me :D
Seed created Ultimecia and her hatred of all life.
Ultimecia created Seed to face her in the future.
Time is an infinite loop.
Another FF8 vid, Jack I feel so catered too, thank you😂
Great video
🙏
FF8 is such a great game
Your profile pic is great
When i first played VIII i was disappointed. I was 17 so i really didn't appreciate some of the characters, especially Rinoa. But thanks to your videos i began to see the beauty of 8's world.
I honestly do think SEED is a bit like Kony tbh haha. I also remember that my teenage angst caused me to dislike SeeD, haha.
I wonder if a game like this would cause controversy nowadays because of the whole underage soldiers.
Your voice never fails to soothe and enlighten.
Looking forward to seeing you this 2025.
They are called Seeds cause Cid and Matron couldn't had landed Seeds of they're own...
Robin Williams as Cid
Is the strange costume of the Garden faculty referencing anything, real or fictional?
Well, my brother thinks they resemble those samurai mercenary guys from the earlier Final Fantasys. I guess you can see that they're wearing straw hats, at least, though it's harder to tell in the PS1 version. Their robes seem a bit more modern, though, than the ones worn in previous games. I'm guessing the faculty are modern descendants of those old samurai mercs and that NORG hired them to be his minions, since they only care about money, like him, and are easy to control because of that. Kind of a nice callback to some enemies that some people might not even remember.
as the other reply suggests I think they look vaguely ronin with the jingasa hat etc. I don't see much symbolism in it (unless in a huge plot twist they happen to be jaded former SeeD veterans), but I think the outfits more than anything give them a sense of creepy mystery and menace, as if they don't need identities or personalities because they are just faceless administrators on behalf of NORG
As a child I used to think that their hats were their actual heads 😂
I never understood the dynamics of SeeD. Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but I always felt like the game was released underdeveloped and incomplete.
I feel like FF8 should take itself a bit more serious. I can't really take the game serious because of how the game world is portrayed. Worldbuilding needed more work put in. The FF8 world feels very tiny with barely anyone living in it.
Eh... they are child soldiers technically. Most of the group is 17... the rest are older if I'm not mistaken. I believe you are permitted join the US military at 17 with parental consent. So while they are technicality child soldiers, not really.
Typically when speaking of child soldiers, I'm talking younger than 16 years old.
SeeD is evil
Good analysis. Some of it isn't apparent unless you stop to think about it. Likely a good number will because that's when Squall begins to change.
He changes when he realized that he's in love with Rinoa during coma.
@@Sinraiser That's his most obvious moment of change, a personal desire pursued over his duties. A complaint I don't often hear is when Squall had just started to be a leader and the team was trying to get him to confess feeling for Rinoa IN THE MIDDLE OF A BATTLE. The writers went full retard at that point and contradicted much what they'd been building up to.
He was clearly changing when he took up the leadership role and started to come out of his shell.
You know something I just realize. We have absolutely no idea where Kiros is from. I just realized we got to travel around the world in the game, but we never encountered anyone that dresses like him, reflecting some culture. It's exotic in some respect given his fighting style, too, as the weapons are almost this one type of Indian weapon. Might be thinking too hard and likely an oversight with focusing on character design only as we actually don't encounter any varied cultures in FFVIII world. I think only a few older FFs and FFIX might have only done that before it was part of FFX's story to have that diversity. Tidus is dropped in Besaid, after all.