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Just as a correction, Arms still needs a swing timer because while Slam does not reset your auto attack timer anymore, while slam is casting your auto attack will not go through.
@WillE You completely left out Blood DK from this video. It is not a tank-only spec in Wrath. That is Cata and later. Every DK spec is capable of tanking and Blood is definitely not the best in every scenario.
If you are taking an arms warrior is really only because you don't have a rogue who wants to spec combat. Most raids will take a combat rogue for EA and not take any dps warriors at all. Even in icc warrior requires Shadowmorn to keep up on damage much like a Pala. Who really cares about ICC after the first clear.
Hey man I appreciate all of these videos. I'm new to classic & these have helped a lot. I think your editing is great & the information is concise with just the added amount of cheeky jokes thrown in without being distracting or some over the top zoomer-esque off-putting nonsense. Well done 👏
I really like this format youre using with the star rating. Keep rolling with this idea. As a tank main I would like to see a tank vid but honestly, I am happy to watch any new vid you create
leveled in 2019 and I'm now leveling again. This is the only guide that's helped me decided on what class I choose to play. I love the ratings and how you broke down each class. Looking forward to seeing the ranged dps one next!!
Its really refreshing watching these videos of essentially 'speculation' of what will preform the best. Mostly accurate, but seeing the difference due to meta changes and new techniques is crazy. (rewatch the rogue and UH DK portions and compare to logs at this pt, 1.5months into the expac)
I love all the videos and guides saying not to stack shamans in raids (aimed at 25 man's), GL having enough shamans exist for the three 10 man splits each week! :')
They are correct though, you don’t stack Shaman or really any class to the degree that you did in Vanilla or TBC. There will always be enough Shaman though. Ele is one of the best PvP specs, Enhance is pretty good and Resto get better as the expansion goes on.
@@GROWL211 yes? ele is the hardest bursting arena spec period and probably the most common pvp spec short of ret paladin and mm hunter the same reason they’re bad in pve is why they’re so good in pvp. big burst in a small window with tons of CC and utility from totems
Just a heads up. Spellhance is the memey name for it. No rotation changes or anything other than a few items. It’s still enhance with just some more crit and spell power. The reason you use the off pieces and the main hand if you’re going to do it is because those items are the ones you can get away with sacrificing AP for SP. mental quickness gives us SP so you don’t want to focus on all SP gear. Rings, trinket, MH weapon, and the neck possibly. Otherwise it’s mostly just a AoE gear set.
Over my time in TBC Classic, I've come to see, even more so than before, how there's a big difference between "playing well" and "doing high dps". So many people take advantage of addons, guides etc. to become really good at "pushing numbers", but still lack some of the things that makes for "playing well". People can even get pretty efficient at pushing numbers with classes that have a high complexity playstyle, and they demand a certain "cred" for doing so. But then suddenly something unforeseen happens...aaaand it all falls apart. Doing anything besides their rotations? Reacting to a situation? No, that's not THEIR job. There might be some level of "cool points" to be had from playing a more complex spec or class, but personally, I much prefer when people find a class/spec they find EASY to play, and have mental capacity to spare for when things don't go perfectly. There's a lot to be said for players being able to use their full compliment of abilities to help out the group, rather than just pushing numbers. Aaaanyway. These were just some idle thoughts about wow and specs. At the end of the day, having fun is the most important thing. :)
Exactly my experience with Classic (as in, vanilla Clasic) as an enhancer through the entire expansion. I wasn't wanted for the DPS but apparently I did the mechanics correct which the warriors or rogues just ignored and got them killed. "Bring the player, not the class" is more of a mindset instead of a set rule.
I know parsing guilds are known for this kind of thing, but I've had endless experiences with parsing guilds where there is so much boundary to recruitment and a certain type of blindness from the GM: whether it's a lack of social skills, obsession with how much gear you have, or that you "aren't the class for their raid comp", and inevitably they all have super shitty attitudes and are guilds full of dipshits. It's fascinating, really. And these same guilds end up with drama because "their members don't communicate properly" but will reject you easily, even if they like you, because you don't fit their raid comp (eg, we have too many warriors, AKA they have two, LOL). Most guilds I would join instantly because of the community, and I'm capable of top parsing on WCL... it isn't hard. And these same parsing guilds "ask you for your WCL log stats" and think that shit matters, LOL.
@@martij30 I remember we had a couple of warriors/rogues in lvl60 classic that could put up some of the highest DPS on the entire server (both horde and alliance side) but they would play so aggro that they would die and lose worldbuffs half the time. Like literally floor POV. If you took their net average dps across every raid, they were probably dealing less average dps than literally every other player of their class. Yet, they were praised and lauded for being able to put up such insane numbers, and other players would forget about how often the aggro players were just... dead on the ground. It boggles the mind. So yeah. I agree, bring the player over the class. Get people that will actually properly do mechanics instead of yolo in and die just so they can do big sometimes do somewhat larger numbers than usual.
@@korvokorvo Exactly. The worst was when it happened at 4 Horsemen or any other encounters that required enough people to finish. One of our raid leads would say "just sit on your hands" and she was so right.
Excatly the problem with minmaxing games now at days.. People think they get better but in reality they suck a$$! They rely too much on theory and not practice.
Another informative and entertaining video from WillE, no surprises there. One thing I might suggest for future videos of this format is going over the strength of their other roles, I think a lot of us value flexibility in their main so it might be good information to have.
the other caviat to stacking ret at any point is that you likely already have a prot pally mt and 2 holy pallys as well as stacking warlocks. so tier is going to be BRUTAL
The Bear-weaving is certainly a Classic idea and it's to eek out all the possible damage. Lacerate benefits from Mangle so it's another bleed. Feral is the min-max, OCD dream in Wrath. Damn, I miss it when I talk about it. Can I go back to being 20 with so much free time. Being 40 and having bills, a job, etc. 😭
I mained feral throghout the first 6 months of Shadowlands. I feel you completely. Weaving is not anything particularly new. Ah well. Wish i was 20 again
Vengeance was a thing in cata, not wotlk. Although bears being able to dish out competitive dps in cat form when offtanking is a much welcome qol change.
I appreciate hearing about the classes with a wider view than just ICC 25 hc, thank you! We know all about tanks, I‘m interested in this kind of comparison for healers.
And the ability to temporarily tank a boss. Saved enough attempts in HM Ulduar back in the day. Feral brings the most utility imho. Ability to spec swap to heal or tank when needed. Brez. Heals through LotP. Etc. My favorite time tanking as a feral was BC. My favorite time dpsing as a feral was Wrath.
As an old player, i'm always fascinated how well informed you are when creating videos. Top content here gentlemen. I would've loved to have at the end or somewhere a picture with all the stars when I would revisit the video. Looking forward to the next, cheers
On thing I don‘t understand when it comes to ulduar item buffs is how much certain classes will rly be affected. Some of those meeles rly popped off because with tier 9 we got a lot of armor pen. Buffed ulduar gear still does not have this
I'm saying it right know : Arms warrior is being slept on. It's much better than fury at the start and has a similar scaling as fury as the expansion progresses, minus the stats of the second weapon of course (but it still has a shadowmourne, don't forget !). Its gameplay is much more involved, single target is a lot of rage management and cleave/aoe has some complexity (you have like 4-5 different abilities you can choose depending of the size/duration of packs and rage). That means you can get more out of it with if you can play the spec well. Yes fury is broken, but in my experience, good arms players will never be very far behind, so don't respec so fast warrior boys. Spellhance is the same. The scaling is great, but only if you master the spec because the gameplay becomes very fast and complex. And also for cat, bearweaving is real thing, people have been doing it and getting stupidly high numbers on private servers for years now. Brace yourselves for a lot of very angry cats.
I feel like Enhancement should have gotten a 6/5 on complexity. As a ex-fury warrior who boosted an enhance to be our guild's shaman for WotLK; OMG I have no idea what I'm doing half the time and the other half is pure luck. 5/5 doesn't convey the ridiculousness of spell-weaving your autos and managing your mana constantly while managing totems. Also SO MANY BUTTONS OMG
Yeah i started leveling one in shadowlands recently and let me just say, it's very fun, but extremely complex. The primal lava actuators / necrolord funnel build is so satisfying in m+. As opposed to my actual main Fury warrior which is just 2 aoe openers, bloodthirst, raging blows, and rampage
@@reuterss306 Well because if you dont have the ui setup which I dont cause its just an alt for me you need to track basically everything from procs/buffs-debuffs-totem uptime and ability cooldowns which makes it tiresome to play not hard really..
i just swapped to enhance its not that hard to be fair maintain your magma totem/flame shock, earth shock if you have the fire shock debuff on the target, use maelstrom stacks if you have 3+ stacks which shouldnt reset your swing timer and use fire ele and wolves off cd and use shamanistic rage off cd, stormstrike over lava lash, lava lash is your least prio abitliy its the last thing you press for dmg enhance got a lot ezr in pre patch.
Much appreciated video. I watched this when grinding in Classic (pop-up player on top of the game) so I didn't have 100% focus on the visuals and had to go back into the video to see the ratings as they weren't up for very long at a time. Although...! I will play warrior again, it's just too much fun. I used to do great with fury in pve, and me and my friend played with me as arms + him as prot warrior in 2v2 (not a "good" comp, but even this unviable comp was playable as compared to unviable in tbcc). Loads of fun.
I actually enjoyed the mechanic of power shifting as feral. Currently I am tending to pla enhancer or spellhancer. I don't like that you can get kited a lot in PvP though.
Put each class/spec's ratings up together at the end, so that if i don't want to keep every single one in working memory, i can get a refresher at the end, please.
You do want a swing timer for arms. Your pummel removes your queued heroic strike. So you want a timer to know when to actually put your heroic strike in (after the last pummel for a given swing)
how people think assassination's rotation goes: mutilate, envenom how it actually is: tricks, sprint, prepot, stealth, mutilate, cancel tricks, slice and dice, hunger for blood, blood fury, mutilate twice then pool energy for CB envenom but don't let S&D drop and don't cap energy, don't forget to vanish and use thistle tea when your trinkets proc again, don't forget to reapply tricks and hfb when it drops... oh and all your buffs will drop during air phase, so you need to do it all over again when it lands... oh and use feint on cooldown for extra poison procs if you have the feint glyph.
As enhance, SP items are not the way to go for slots other than your Wep for this tier. AP translates to Spell Dmg and is still essential with other stats. I use no SP gear other than Titansteel wep and sit comfy at 1900 bonus before procs (just double Flametounge up). Hit, expertise, AP, Haste, Crit all still wonderful and works much better balancing physical dmg and spell dmg.
Feral DPS in Wrath was the most fun I ever had in over a decade of WoW raiding. It is the most complex spec in Wrath to play imho. If you screwed up you were punished heavily. I'd give it a five early. In Ulduar a properly geared feral played correctly will chart top on melee friendly single target fights. I enjoyed the high risk and reward scenario. If I had decided to play Wrath it's the only spec and class I'd play. Nothing else is as fun or worth the time in Wrath. However, I mentioned my problem, time. I'm well past my 20s when I played Vanilla to Wrath as a hardcore raider. To be good at WoW you have to have the time and I've decided to put what little downtime I have to other endeavors. I wish all feral dps the best. Do those of us longtime ferals proud. Wrath is our prime as dps throughout the entirety of WoW.
As a Rogue Main since Vanilla i can underline your Statement. Combat starts good in all early Expansions an gets Top Tier in later Tiers cause of scaling. Had always the "Charakterdevelopment" feeling for me cause the playstyle always comes full circle at the End of the Expansion
Why does everyone think the assassination rogue is the simplest spec? You have to maintain 3 buffs, use a lot of burst cd, use survival cd and run for a boss in dynamic fights. Any range dd is much more easier than rogue. If rogue complexity is 1, then mage/warlock/hunter/boomkin/shadowpriest/elesham complexity is -3 or less
Ret Paladin is the true hero class. They do SO much damage to undead, which is basically the entire expansion. 4 button spec, you press whatever comes of CD first, and it's the same for single or AoE fights. The REAL ones know how Seal of Command hits (as in, it goes left to right, or right to left I don't recall atm) and if you position correctly and swing the right direction you win.
About the feral/bear druid thing. Most of your hardcore druid players of classic and tbc from what I can see seem to really hate the fact that power shifting is gone. Bear weaving is honestly a a drag by comparison. They also lack a big part of their damage currently (in prepatch, Savage Roar I think is the big missing link). If you haven't played feral its a great time to level one and give it a shot (great class for BOA gear), for one you wont know what you missed, for another there is seemingly a decent amount of people departing from the spec in wotlk and there were never that many to start with.
Melee scaling depends entirely on how good armor penetration is for them. Specs like Assa, Enha, Unholy fall off a bit in ICC because their magic damage is a big % of their total and as such, armor pen is worse for them than for other classes like fury/combat/feral. regarding enhancement: their single target damage does scale pretty well into ICC mostly because ABSOLUTELY NO ONE needs the gear they need. Their aoe falls off a cliff in TOC and never recovers.
Nice video, I like your content. But I think that there are quite some logic errors here which can be pointed out just by looking at utility: How can Warrior (both specs) have 3 stars utility and assassin rogue as well? Warrior brings commanding shout, Sunder Armor, 4% physical or 5% crit, demo shout if necessary, bleeding debuff (arms)... How can that be equal to rogue? Looking at damage in early stage: Retri 3 stars which was literally called "dog shit" from Rugsz, while warrior got 1? If Warrior gets 1, retri gets 1. Easy as it is. Pity, that there are such big flaws in the video. As I said, I like your content!
Idk about frost being as easy as you say. It's very easy to mess up your rotation and severely hurt your dps becuase of it. In theory it's easy in practice you have to play it very well
Never heard of the bear part on druid, sounds interesting but not sure it justifies the missed shreds in the meantime, and its hard enough to keep the buffs and dots up as it is without clipping.
energy keeps regenerating while in bear form now, so you can dump your energy, switch to bear for a couple swings and then go back to cat before you cap out. Its actually a genius idea. Edit: It can also be a huge bonus to aoe damage. Edit edit: Unless Savage roar drops off when switching to bear, in that case the its only a meme.
@@mr.meatsoup5639 I feel like it can work but its an extremely tiny window to make it effective as you still have to get rage (yes its fast but we're talking seconds of time). I guess with nowadays addons showing everything its doable but holy crap your awareness to the rest of the raid has to suffer imho, its a lot, but I suppose it is what it would make it engaging.
@@aonirsplayground6224 Yeah i would say feral if weaving like that, is currently THE most difficult dps spec to master. Anyone that could do it effectively and execute the boss mechanics along with CR and the occasional instant heal on the raid etc gets my utmost respect.
Isn't blood dk a dps spec as well? Perhaps not the greatest until late ToC/ICC but still it's a dps spec as well. And iirc, all 3 specs can tank as well albeit some not as good as others
Haven't played a death knight since original wrath so my memory could be flawed, but talent reworks over the course of the expansion turned "all three specs can tank" into "maybe lets make one spec immensely better at it"
By late expansion blood was a passable DPS spec but patch changes pushed it into the tanking role it would become fully in Cata. Unholy and frost were much better specs by mid-late expansion. Blood was great as were all 3 dps specs back before any patches early in vanilla wrath but as we are on the final patch i doubt it will get much use for DPS.
@@Marcorix2010 Blood might be terrible with the talents we have in classic, but he evaluated Sub Rogue's pve too, which is also garbo. Frost and Unholy are also very capable tank specs with these talents as well.
Hey, i know thats sort of a meme but u mentioned sub rogue as vaiable option soo.... u shoud also mention blood dk as dps. They are poorly weak until armor penetration cap but after that, their dps is pretty good, I'm not saying that they are S-tier, but still viable option on late ToC & ICC. As if it comes to raid utility, they bring 10% AP increase. Beond that thats one great pice of a video to wach keep it up!
Enh shaman does drop off a bit in the end game. It ends up feeling like they designed it to stack haste but forgot to get rid of the cooldowns on the procs. In ICC it ended up being the worst performing melee that isn't completely unviable. That being said, I had far more fun with enh than I did with the other 4 classes I played.
imagine windfurying without ICD while having around 1k haste enh is designed poorly, but solely because the whole melee, and especially dual wielding is fucked up nonsense, otherwise there would be no such thing as syncing and staggering weapons macros, and so on. (weapon syncing is the reason why sometimes you do well, and suddenly you are the bottom of recount, it's not just your typical randomized-digits random) enhancement shamans are limping and tripping over all of the imperfections of the game's whole combat system, both melee and spell.. and still manage to hold up.
Maybe I'm just biased, but I feel the combat utility that any druid can bring (tranquility, battle rez, innervate, the ability to actually shift to emergency heal/tank) warrants more than 3 stars for utility.
private servers didn't have syncing or spell weaving for enhance, which is going to scale very well. In naxx your enhance should be #1 overall and #1 on most fights.
@@BIGIFANDYELLOWCARD you weave lightning bolt/chain lighting into your rotation at around 3 stacks of maelstrom, during a short window prior to your weapons hitting, ultimately causing you not to reset sync on weapons and not having to wait for 5 stacks of maelstrom. there's some nice weak auras that help with that
@@BIGIFANDYELLOWCARD you pretty much hard cast Lightning bolt or chain lighting in between your melee swings (at ~2-4 maelstrom stacks). You sneak in more dmg than you otherwise would. Which adds complexity to the rotation but rewards you for playing well
While dk can surely tank in all three specs. The DMG of blood DPS leaves a bit to be desired. It is not as bad as subtlety Rogue is, to compare it to another class. Edit: if you count only boss DMG, then yes blood can compete, but overall is where it's at.
Eh, Blood is fine all the way through as DPS. ArmPen helps a lot and it moves it really high up the charts as the game goes on. But really, just play whatever you want! This is re-released content and anyone min-maxing it is probably a turbonerd.
If you are trying to tank serious content as frost or ESPECIALLY unholy, you are a detriment to your group that has chosen to be worse on purpose than blood.
I didn't play feral druid until Cata, but I would say it was still pretty difficult... But rewarding. You don't really get downtime, but you can double other class' damage if you keep your buffs and debuffs going. It's nearly impossible to get it right 100% of the time, but even if I messed up or had a rough night I was able to keep in top 10 dps while I fumbled my keys.
love these videos my friend but I wish you would touch more on the real rogue pvp spec for wrath, the Mutilate/Prep build. Its what all the gladiator rogues ran back in the day and it overshadows sub by a long shot. I dont remember any rogues playing sub in pvp, when mutilate was simply better.
I still wonder if going Ret was a wise choice for me, I know everyone says it's OP in Wotlk and while leveling to 70 I definitely saw myself topping dps meters constantly. But now at 70, I'm seeing the gap forming between myself and other dps classes. And I fear it's only going to get wider as things go on. I always wanted to play Paladin in TBC but the playstyle never clicked with me, I hated seal twisting so much, feeling like you have to cheese the game mechanics to do good dps never felt rewarding no matter how many times people tried to convince me it was 'intended' so ended up playing rogue instead and loving it, now I feel like I'm stuck between two dps classes that are fairly simple but wildly different. I'm terrible with Paladin's in pvp, despite everyone telling me I can 2v1 easily I get destoryed. Yet with rogues I was consistently able to burst people down and make use of my kit to get away or stun multiple targets.
I would hard disagree sub rogue's are 3 on complexity. They would be on 5. You need like so many macro's and there's the extra shadow dance bar along with your usual stealth bar and just so many tools to control someone which is what the spec is all about. Dmg isnt what you choose this spec for.
Tbh the melee classes will be in a much better state now then before at the start of tbc classic. No longer will the melee be punished on mechanics that benefit ranged classes the most and rogues especially get the wrath treatment they deserve.
in what world is there more to unholy than to frost dk gameplay wise? frost requires way more attention and the dps difference between a good vs average player of the two specs is way bigger for frost lol
Catch up fast with the best leveling guide made by Classic's top speedrunners. I've done Loremaster of Northrend 3 times using this, can confirm works very well. Guides for Dragonflight also available! www.restedxp.com/?ref=WillE Use Code: WILLE for 5% off!
D z,,22
There's a bot reply claiming to be you on my post. I need an adult.
Just as a correction, Arms still needs a swing timer because while Slam does not reset your auto attack timer anymore, while slam is casting your auto attack will not go through.
@WillE You completely left out Blood DK from this video. It is not a tank-only spec in Wrath. That is Cata and later. Every DK spec is capable of tanking and Blood is definitely not the best in every scenario.
If you are taking an arms warrior is really only because you don't have a rogue who wants to spec combat. Most raids will take a combat rogue for EA and not take any dps warriors at all. Even in icc warrior requires Shadowmorn to keep up on damage much like a Pala. Who really cares about ICC after the first clear.
Hey man I appreciate all of these videos. I'm new to classic & these have helped a lot. I think your editing is great & the information is concise with just the added amount of cheeky jokes thrown in without being distracting or some over the top zoomer-esque off-putting nonsense.
Well done 👏
Well put together and simple to understand. Thank you for the overview
I really like this format youre using with the star rating. Keep rolling with this idea.
As a tank main I would like to see a tank vid but honestly, I am happy to watch any new vid you create
I just watched a video of his of this same style for tanks
leveled in 2019 and I'm now leveling again. This is the only guide that's helped me decided on what class I choose to play. I love the ratings and how you broke down each class. Looking forward to seeing the ranged dps one next!!
Good format, I find people tend to enjoy types of gameplay, like melee, range, tank heal so this is great for comparing
Great vid man!! would love to see the ranged version next! really loved the star/rating system you used, while keeping a good clip throughout
yep, ranged please!
Its really refreshing watching these videos of essentially 'speculation' of what will preform the best. Mostly accurate, but seeing the difference due to meta changes and new techniques is crazy. (rewatch the rogue and UH DK portions and compare to logs at this pt, 1.5months into the expac)
Awesome work as always WillE! looking forward to heal and tank for Wotlk. Ty!
I love all the videos and guides saying not to stack shamans in raids (aimed at 25 man's), GL having enough shamans exist for the three 10 man splits each week! :')
They are correct though, you don’t stack Shaman or really any class to the degree that you did in Vanilla or TBC. There will always be enough Shaman though. Ele is one of the best PvP specs, Enhance is pretty good and Resto get better as the expansion goes on.
@@brandonkruse6412 >Ele is one of the best PvP specs
wat.
@@GROWL211 yes? ele is the hardest bursting arena spec period and probably the most common pvp spec short of ret paladin and mm hunter
the same reason they’re bad in pve is why they’re so good in pvp. big burst in a small window with tons of CC and utility from totems
Just a heads up. Spellhance is the memey name for it. No rotation changes or anything other than a few items. It’s still enhance with just some more crit and spell power. The reason you use the off pieces and the main hand if you’re going to do it is because those items are the ones you can get away with sacrificing AP for SP. mental quickness gives us SP so you don’t want to focus on all SP gear. Rings, trinket, MH weapon, and the neck possibly. Otherwise it’s mostly just a AoE gear set.
Nice video, I am hyped for the range dps
Hope for the healers next! Thanks for the amazing video
Healers next!!
Tanks please Will-E love this format!
This is a great addition to your in-depth walkthroughs. Great series and I think it will be the go-to for many people just coming back!
Great review - thanks! It must have taken ages to put that all together 👍
I think this more Digestible format is going to be a very good thing for your channel
Thank you very much for your great work! I'd love to have a disc priest in depth guide: What spells are used when and are they mana efficient yes/no
Over my time in TBC Classic, I've come to see, even more so than before, how there's a big difference between "playing well" and "doing high dps". So many people take advantage of addons, guides etc. to become really good at "pushing numbers", but still lack some of the things that makes for "playing well". People can even get pretty efficient at pushing numbers with classes that have a high complexity playstyle, and they demand a certain "cred" for doing so. But then suddenly something unforeseen happens...aaaand it all falls apart. Doing anything besides their rotations? Reacting to a situation? No, that's not THEIR job. There might be some level of "cool points" to be had from playing a more complex spec or class, but personally, I much prefer when people find a class/spec they find EASY to play, and have mental capacity to spare for when things don't go perfectly. There's a lot to be said for players being able to use their full compliment of abilities to help out the group, rather than just pushing numbers.
Aaaanyway. These were just some idle thoughts about wow and specs. At the end of the day, having fun is the most important thing. :)
Exactly my experience with Classic (as in, vanilla Clasic) as an enhancer through the entire expansion. I wasn't wanted for the DPS but apparently I did the mechanics correct which the warriors or rogues just ignored and got them killed.
"Bring the player, not the class" is more of a mindset instead of a set rule.
I know parsing guilds are known for this kind of thing, but I've had endless experiences with parsing guilds where there is so much boundary to recruitment and a certain type of blindness from the GM: whether it's a lack of social skills, obsession with how much gear you have, or that you "aren't the class for their raid comp", and inevitably they all have super shitty attitudes and are guilds full of dipshits. It's fascinating, really. And these same guilds end up with drama because "their members don't communicate properly" but will reject you easily, even if they like you, because you don't fit their raid comp (eg, we have too many warriors, AKA they have two, LOL).
Most guilds I would join instantly because of the community, and I'm capable of top parsing on WCL... it isn't hard. And these same parsing guilds "ask you for your WCL log stats" and think that shit matters, LOL.
@@martij30 I remember we had a couple of warriors/rogues in lvl60 classic that could put up some of the highest DPS on the entire server (both horde and alliance side) but they would play so aggro that they would die and lose worldbuffs half the time. Like literally floor POV. If you took their net average dps across every raid, they were probably dealing less average dps than literally every other player of their class. Yet, they were praised and lauded for being able to put up such insane numbers, and other players would forget about how often the aggro players were just... dead on the ground. It boggles the mind.
So yeah. I agree, bring the player over the class. Get people that will actually properly do mechanics instead of yolo in and die just so they can do big sometimes do somewhat larger numbers than usual.
@@korvokorvo Exactly. The worst was when it happened at 4 Horsemen or any other encounters that required enough people to finish.
One of our raid leads would say "just sit on your hands" and she was so right.
Excatly the problem with minmaxing games now at days.. People think they get better but in reality they suck a$$!
They rely too much on theory and not practice.
Another informative and entertaining video from WillE, no surprises there. One thing I might suggest for future videos of this format is going over the strength of their other roles, I think a lot of us value flexibility in their main so it might be good information to have.
the other caviat to stacking ret at any point is that you likely already have a prot pally mt and 2 holy pallys as well as stacking warlocks. so tier is going to be BRUTAL
As a guy whose two mains are a Paladin and Warlock, this hits home
@@Srelathon yeah raid comps rough rn XD
really liked the video format, keem em coming
The Bear-weaving is certainly a Classic idea and it's to eek out all the possible damage. Lacerate benefits from Mangle so it's another bleed. Feral is the min-max, OCD dream in Wrath. Damn, I miss it when I talk about it. Can I go back to being 20 with so much free time. Being 40 and having bills, a job, etc. 😭
I mained feral throghout the first 6 months of Shadowlands. I feel you completely. Weaving is not anything particularly new. Ah well. Wish i was 20 again
Feral in wrath is also the tank spec, this means you can use vengence as a cat after switching from bear.
Vengeance was a thing in cata, not wotlk. Although bears being able to dish out competitive dps in cat form when offtanking is a much welcome qol change.
2:30
Misinformation, blood dk tanks usually go into icy talons for the raid buff when they go 43-26-2 on talents
I appreciate hearing about the classes with a wider view than just ICC 25 hc, thank you!
We know all about tanks, I‘m interested in this kind of comparison for healers.
Ferals also bring improved leader of the pack which heals anyone if they crit with melee or ranged attack for 4% of health.
And the ability to temporarily tank a boss. Saved enough attempts in HM Ulduar back in the day. Feral brings the most utility imho. Ability to spec swap to heal or tank when needed. Brez. Heals through LotP. Etc. My favorite time tanking as a feral was BC. My favorite time dpsing as a feral was Wrath.
As an old player, i'm always fascinated how well informed you are when creating videos. Top content here gentlemen.
I would've loved to have at the end or somewhere a picture with all the stars when I would revisit the video.
Looking forward to the next, cheers
Great format, can't wait for ranged specs!
lovely video would like to see ranged dps next video!!
On thing I don‘t understand when it comes to ulduar item buffs is how much certain classes will rly be affected.
Some of those meeles rly popped off because with tier 9 we got a lot of armor pen. Buffed ulduar gear still does not have this
I'm saying it right know : Arms warrior is being slept on. It's much better than fury at the start and has a similar scaling as fury as the expansion progresses, minus the stats of the second weapon of course (but it still has a shadowmourne, don't forget !). Its gameplay is much more involved, single target is a lot of rage management and cleave/aoe has some complexity (you have like 4-5 different abilities you can choose depending of the size/duration of packs and rage). That means you can get more out of it with if you can play the spec well.
Yes fury is broken, but in my experience, good arms players will never be very far behind, so don't respec so fast warrior boys.
Spellhance is the same. The scaling is great, but only if you master the spec because the gameplay becomes very fast and complex.
And also for cat, bearweaving is real thing, people have been doing it and getting stupidly high numbers on private servers for years now. Brace yourselves for a lot of very angry cats.
Can't wait to absolutely suck at Feral just because it's fun anyways :D Gonna learn as I go
What is the name you have one handed equipped purple mouth sword called? @5:14
Good shit, I'm currently leveling my second alt as a Ret Paladin for this expansion.
I feel like Enhancement should have gotten a 6/5 on complexity.
As a ex-fury warrior who boosted an enhance to be our guild's shaman for WotLK;
OMG I have no idea what I'm doing half the time and the other half is pure luck.
5/5 doesn't convey the ridiculousness of spell-weaving your autos and managing your mana constantly while managing totems.
Also SO MANY BUTTONS OMG
I played enhancement alt in BC and now in wrath I feel like you just need a VERY good set of weakauras to play properly let alone good.
@@КрасимирПетков-ц8ь its an easy af prio list...dunno why ppl say its hard
Yeah i started leveling one in shadowlands recently and let me just say, it's very fun, but extremely complex. The primal lava actuators / necrolord funnel build is so satisfying in m+. As opposed to my actual main Fury warrior which is just 2 aoe openers, bloodthirst, raging blows, and rampage
@@reuterss306 Well because if you dont have the ui setup which I dont cause its just an alt for me you need to track basically everything from procs/buffs-debuffs-totem uptime and ability cooldowns which makes it tiresome to play not hard really..
i just swapped to enhance its not that hard to be fair maintain your magma totem/flame shock, earth shock if you have the fire shock debuff on the target, use maelstrom stacks if you have 3+ stacks which shouldnt reset your swing timer and use fire ele and wolves off cd and use shamanistic rage off cd, stormstrike over lava lash, lava lash is your least prio abitliy its the last thing you press for dmg enhance got a lot ezr in pre patch.
Much appreciated video. I watched this when grinding in Classic (pop-up player on top of the game) so I didn't have 100% focus on the visuals and had to go back into the video to see the ratings as they weren't up for very long at a time. Although...! I will play warrior again, it's just too much fun. I used to do great with fury in pve, and me and my friend played with me as arms + him as prot warrior in 2v2 (not a "good" comp, but even this unviable comp was playable as compared to unviable in tbcc). Loads of fun.
Yeah I love warrior its super fun class to play
Love the speed and style of the vid! I'd love a ranged dps list next; looking for some love for my Destro Warlocks in a world beset by Demos. :P
wotlk hype! can't wait to parse blue with my feral
I actually enjoyed the mechanic of power shifting as feral. Currently I am tending to pla enhancer or spellhancer. I don't like that you can get kited a lot in PvP though.
Put each class/spec's ratings up together at the end, so that if i don't want to keep every single one in working memory, i can get a refresher at the end, please.
Loved the video. Please do healers and tanks.
You do want a swing timer for arms. Your pummel removes your queued heroic strike. So you want a timer to know when to actually put your heroic strike in (after the last pummel for a given swing)
You mean slam
@@demarge1065 yes, I meant slam.
Why not just macro in a heroic after slam?
@@vane909090 Because that will make you heroic strike on basically every swing, and you won't have any rage
how people think assassination's rotation goes: mutilate, envenom
how it actually is: tricks, sprint, prepot, stealth, mutilate, cancel tricks, slice and dice, hunger for blood, blood fury, mutilate twice then pool energy for CB envenom but don't let S&D drop and don't cap energy, don't forget to vanish and use thistle tea when your trinkets proc again, don't forget to reapply tricks and hfb when it drops... oh and all your buffs will drop during air phase, so you need to do it all over again when it lands... oh and use feint on cooldown for extra poison procs if you have the feint glyph.
does anyone know the name of the nameplate addon at 8:04??
Great video, do healers next please
My 6 seconds of fame @8:20 lol
Willie: Let me know what you want to see next...
Me: Yes.
You mention a bluepost about the possibility of Blizz buffing Ulduar gear. Any link to the Bluepost?
Really cool idea. RANGE NEXT please
@WillE is that you?
Hoping for healers next, but I'll watch them all anyway :)
As enhance, SP items are not the way to go for slots other than your Wep for this tier. AP translates to Spell Dmg and is still essential with other stats. I use no SP gear other than Titansteel wep and sit comfy at 1900 bonus before procs (just double Flametounge up). Hit, expertise, AP, Haste, Crit all still wonderful and works much better balancing physical dmg and spell dmg.
Weaving your Lightning Bolts also is huge with 3-4 stacks and other abilities on CD. Knowing when to use imbues and such is very important
greate video, wanna see range in wotlk classic
*cries in DK blood spec*
Feral DPS in Wrath was the most fun I ever had in over a decade of WoW raiding. It is the most complex spec in Wrath to play imho. If you screwed up you were punished heavily. I'd give it a five early. In Ulduar a properly geared feral played correctly will chart top on melee friendly single target fights. I enjoyed the high risk and reward scenario. If I had decided to play Wrath it's the only spec and class I'd play. Nothing else is as fun or worth the time in Wrath. However, I mentioned my problem, time. I'm well past my 20s when I played Vanilla to Wrath as a hardcore raider. To be good at WoW you have to have the time and I've decided to put what little downtime I have to other endeavors. I wish all feral dps the best. Do those of us longtime ferals proud. Wrath is our prime as dps throughout the entirety of WoW.
ok
As a Rogue Main since Vanilla i can underline your Statement. Combat starts good in all early Expansions an gets Top Tier in later Tiers cause of scaling. Had always the "Charakterdevelopment" feeling for me cause the playstyle always comes full circle at the End of the Expansion
Why does everyone think the assassination rogue is the simplest spec? You have to maintain 3 buffs, use a lot of burst cd, use survival cd and run for a boss in dynamic fights. Any range dd is much more easier than rogue. If rogue complexity is 1, then mage/warlock/hunter/boomkin/shadowpriest/elesham complexity is -3 or less
Great, thanks
Ret Paladin is the true hero class. They do SO much damage to undead, which is basically the entire expansion. 4 button spec, you press whatever comes of CD first, and it's the same for single or AoE fights. The REAL ones know how Seal of Command hits (as in, it goes left to right, or right to left I don't recall atm) and if you position correctly and swing the right direction you win.
About the feral/bear druid thing. Most of your hardcore druid players of classic and tbc from what I can see seem to really hate the fact that power shifting is gone. Bear weaving is honestly a a drag by comparison. They also lack a big part of their damage currently (in prepatch, Savage Roar I think is the big missing link). If you haven't played feral its a great time to level one and give it a shot (great class for BOA gear), for one you wont know what you missed, for another there is seemingly a decent amount of people departing from the spec in wotlk and there were never that many to start with.
Melee scaling depends entirely on how good armor penetration is for them. Specs like Assa, Enha, Unholy fall off a bit in ICC because their magic damage is a big % of their total and as such, armor pen is worse for them than for other classes like fury/combat/feral.
regarding enhancement: their single target damage does scale pretty well into ICC mostly because ABSOLUTELY NO ONE needs the gear they need. Their aoe falls off a cliff in TOC and never recovers.
Nice video, I like your content. But I think that there are quite some logic errors here which can be pointed out just by looking at utility: How can Warrior (both specs) have 3 stars utility and assassin rogue as well? Warrior brings commanding shout, Sunder Armor, 4% physical or 5% crit, demo shout if necessary, bleeding debuff (arms)... How can that be equal to rogue?
Looking at damage in early stage: Retri 3 stars which was literally called "dog shit" from Rugsz, while warrior got 1? If Warrior gets 1, retri gets 1. Easy as it is.
Pity, that there are such big flaws in the video. As I said, I like your content!
Warrior will be fine.
What was that axe the arms warrior was wielding during rating
Rdps next! Great job WillE
You didn't mention Commanding Shout / Trauma in Arm's utility-
Christian Finnish Frostiis Tauren Female Warrior in the making, when the time is right...
Great vid
awesome video!
Idk about frost being as easy as you say. It's very easy to mess up your rotation and severely hurt your dps becuase of it. In theory it's easy in practice you have to play it very well
Why does wow only have one physical ranged class?
Never heard of the bear part on druid, sounds interesting but not sure it justifies the missed shreds in the meantime, and its hard enough to keep the buffs and dots up as it is without clipping.
energy keeps regenerating while in bear form now, so you can dump your energy, switch to bear for a couple swings and then go back to cat before you cap out. Its actually a genius idea.
Edit: It can also be a huge bonus to aoe damage.
Edit edit: Unless Savage roar drops off when switching to bear, in that case the its only a meme.
@@mr.meatsoup5639 I feel like it can work but its an extremely tiny window to make it effective as you still have to get rage (yes its fast but we're talking seconds of time).
I guess with nowadays addons showing everything its doable but holy crap your awareness to the rest of the raid has to suffer imho, its a lot, but I suppose it is what it would make it engaging.
You always let bleeds drop if you refresh its a big dps loss because you just end up clipping bleeds
@@aonirsplayground6224 Yeah i would say feral if weaving like that, is currently THE most difficult dps spec to master. Anyone that could do it effectively and execute the boss mechanics along with CR and the occasional instant heal on the raid etc gets my utmost respect.
What weapon was that on the arms warrior?
Isn't blood dk a dps spec as well? Perhaps not the greatest until late ToC/ICC but still it's a dps spec as well. And iirc, all 3 specs can tank as well albeit some not as good as others
Haven't played a death knight since original wrath so my memory could be flawed, but talent reworks over the course of the expansion turned "all three specs can tank" into "maybe lets make one spec immensely better at it"
By late expansion blood was a passable DPS spec but patch changes pushed it into the tanking role it would become fully in Cata. Unholy and frost were much better specs by mid-late expansion. Blood was great as were all 3 dps specs back before any patches early in vanilla wrath but as we are on the final patch i doubt it will get much use for DPS.
@@Marcorix2010 Blood might be terrible with the talents we have in classic, but he evaluated Sub Rogue's pve too, which is also garbo. Frost and Unholy are also very capable tank specs with these talents as well.
I love Gnomes so much.
Hey, i know thats sort of a meme but u mentioned sub rogue as vaiable option soo.... u shoud also mention blood dk as dps. They are poorly weak until armor penetration cap but after that, their dps is pretty good, I'm not saying that they are S-tier, but still viable option on late ToC & ICC. As if it comes to raid utility, they bring 10% AP increase. Beond that thats one great pice of a video to wach keep it up!
Now waiting for RANGED in wrath.
Healers next please! :D
Enh shaman does drop off a bit in the end game. It ends up feeling like they designed it to stack haste but forgot to get rid of the cooldowns on the procs. In ICC it ended up being the worst performing melee that isn't completely unviable. That being said, I had far more fun with enh than I did with the other 4 classes I played.
imagine windfurying without ICD while having around 1k haste
enh is designed poorly, but solely because the whole melee, and especially dual wielding is fucked up nonsense, otherwise there would be no such thing as syncing and staggering weapons macros, and so on. (weapon syncing is the reason why sometimes you do well, and suddenly you are the bottom of recount, it's not just your typical randomized-digits random)
enhancement shamans are limping and tripping over all of the imperfections of the game's whole combat system, both melee and spell..
and still manage to hold up.
Who's going to tell Willie about the AoE spec rogues have now?
Maybe I'm just biased, but I feel the combat utility that any druid can bring (tranquility, battle rez, innervate, the ability to actually shift to emergency heal/tank) warrants more than 3 stars for utility.
I'd like Healers next. Nice vid!
why nobody mention Blood DPS? at high end game stages. With ArPen close to the cap it's a beast!
Why did you skip Blood DKs?
private servers didn't have syncing or spell weaving for enhance, which is going to scale very well. In naxx your enhance should be #1 overall and #1 on most fights.
What do you mean about spellweaving? I will be maining enh and would like to learn.
you mean the spellhence spec from private server?
@@BIGIFANDYELLOWCARD you weave lightning bolt/chain lighting into your rotation at around 3 stacks of maelstrom, during a short window prior to your weapons hitting, ultimately causing you not to reset sync on weapons and not having to wait for 5 stacks of maelstrom. there's some nice weak auras that help with that
@@BIGIFANDYELLOWCARD you pretty much hard cast Lightning bolt or chain lighting in between your melee swings (at ~2-4 maelstrom stacks). You sneak in more dmg than you otherwise would. Which adds complexity to the rotation but rewards you for playing well
DKs have three dps specs and three tanking specs because, as Chilton and company have said, DKs can tank in all three specs.
Yup. People are restroactively pretending that in 3.3.5 blood was only tank and frost and unholy were only dps.
The SM dk on my server was blood dps
While dk can surely tank in all three specs. The DMG of blood DPS leaves a bit to be desired. It is not as bad as subtlety Rogue is, to compare it to another class. Edit: if you count only boss DMG, then yes blood can compete, but overall is where it's at.
Eh, Blood is fine all the way through as DPS. ArmPen helps a lot and it moves it really high up the charts as the game goes on. But really, just play whatever you want! This is re-released content and anyone min-maxing it is probably a turbonerd.
Yeah if I remember correctly, armor pen blood DPS was best dk specc in ICC
If you are trying to tank serious content as frost or ESPECIALLY unholy, you are a detriment to your group that has chosen to be worse on purpose than blood.
boomy provides the same 13% debuff as unholy as an aura.
Great guide. Why not cover the Tank melee's? But I can understand. Again great guide.
I didn't play feral druid until Cata, but I would say it was still pretty difficult... But rewarding. You don't really get downtime, but you can double other class' damage if you keep your buffs and debuffs going. It's nearly impossible to get it right 100% of the time, but even if I messed up or had a rough night I was able to keep in top 10 dps while I fumbled my keys.
love these videos my friend but I wish you would touch more on the real rogue pvp spec for wrath, the Mutilate/Prep build. Its what all the gladiator rogues ran back in the day and it overshadows sub by a long shot. I dont remember any rogues playing sub in pvp, when mutilate was simply better.
What are you going to be playing?
Love it! Do all, but tanks first!!!
I still wonder if going Ret was a wise choice for me, I know everyone says it's OP in Wotlk and while leveling to 70 I definitely saw myself topping dps meters constantly. But now at 70, I'm seeing the gap forming between myself and other dps classes. And I fear it's only going to get wider as things go on. I always wanted to play Paladin in TBC but the playstyle never clicked with me, I hated seal twisting so much, feeling like you have to cheese the game mechanics to do good dps never felt rewarding no matter how many times people tried to convince me it was 'intended' so ended up playing rogue instead and loving it, now I feel like I'm stuck between two dps classes that are fairly simple but wildly different. I'm terrible with Paladin's in pvp, despite everyone telling me I can 2v1 easily I get destoryed. Yet with rogues I was consistently able to burst people down and make use of my kit to get away or stun multiple targets.
Rogue and paladin are both super fun and super great in wrath. I mailed them both in the original and they will be 2 of my mains again!
I would hard disagree sub rogue's are 3 on complexity. They would be on 5. You need like so many macro's and there's the extra shadow dance bar along with your usual stealth bar and just so many tools to control someone which is what the spec is all about. Dmg isnt what you choose this spec for.
Wheres the blood dps :c
no prot warrior or prot pali in arena?
Tbh the melee classes will be in a much better state now then before at the start of tbc classic. No longer will the melee be punished on mechanics that benefit ranged classes the most and rogues especially get the wrath treatment they deserve.
in what world is there more to unholy than to frost dk gameplay wise? frost requires way more attention and the dps difference between a good vs average player of the two specs is way bigger for frost lol
WARRIOR ARMS has a glitch right now where Heroic strike Qs are negated by pressing slam