Hot Take: These reroll tokens will not get them enough monetization and Battlegrounds is doomed to be dropped by Blizzard eventually. They could go even more aggressive with their monetization (like bonus armor or gold or shop refreshes) but that will just turn people away from the game. We are doomed to watch a slow painful death of battlegrounds as more and more of it gets monetized and the monetization will never be enough to hit their targets.
I really, really doubt Battlegrounds is "doomed" to being dropped considering it's the game mode that's the most popular. Duels was not as popular as they wished; it wasn't played much. From what I gather, battlegrounds is played more than the base card game...
@mrsweetkandy7673 popularity doesn't matter if they can't make enough money off of it. In fact they would probably start seeing it as taking attention away from their other more profitable modes.
Sadly some of that is the wonders of our corporate world infecting gaming. Not much can be done about it, but damn it I want to enjoy my game as long as I can! Someone give me some more copium damn it!
@16:45 It's quite likely they roll 8 heros for each player and 'rerolling' just flips it to the 5th-8th selected hero. meaning if one player rolls away a hero, no one else has access to it irregardless
Reroll tokens sound stupid. Sure it prevents samey games, but the free track only having 8? And you need the premium premium pass to get 1 free reroll per game? Now no one will use em because they are a finite resource!
"Reroll tokens sound stupid. Sure it prevents samey games" If anything I would expect rerolls too increase samey games since they make it more likely you will get a top hero. When you're only given 2 or 4 options, sometimes you gotta make do.
I'll be paying the $20, that's fine. I like to support the things I'm enjoying and someone has to so it doesn't go away. Fortunately for my opponents I'm doing it because I'm trying to knock out all those achievements so I'll be rerolling for all the bad heroes that I just can't seem to win with. I just knocked Onyxia off my list today! MMR reset seems like a good time to try doing the AFKay for 3 turns one; that seems likely to be the most difficult.
People upset about don't see that the $15 is access to +2 heroes, and an extra $5 for +1 hero in the form of a reroll. You can still get to a respectful rank on the free track, you just need to be better with a wider selection of heroes.
3 ways I would be okay with them monetizing it (that I think work best in tandem): 1. Make most future hero releases behind some kind of paywall. This could either be that they are gated behind the battle pass and F2P players get access to them next season, or they are buyable with gold, but like, a lot of gold (5k each). I have 30k gold saved up, if each season releases 3 single player heroes then that's 15k gold, which means I would have to save up again after 2 seasons and that's without any additional gold sink they can come up with for BG's. Maybe duos heroes are free to solve that potential headache. 2. Expand the trinket system to have "trinket slots", so you get 6 slots for each tribe (3 lesser, 3 greater), and 16 neutral slots (8 lesser, 8 greater). You get a default set of these, near the same amount as the current season. Then, you buy trinkets from the gift shop for gold, each one is 500 gold, if you get a duplicate you get 1/3 of the cost back in "dust" meaning after 3 duplicates you can craft any trinket you want. When they rebalance/change seasons if any trinkets you owned (outside of the core set) get changed or reworked you get the equivalent of dust back at the full 1:1 ratio so that way they can liberally change and rebalance the trinkets as they see fit. 3. Add another tier to the battle pass that you can pay for with gold that grants access to some extra things, including maybe one new hero if the heroes are paywalled behind the pass, some additional cosmetics and hero re-roll tokens and 1 additional hero selection slot (so 3 instead of the full 4 you get from the premium pass)
All interesting ideas. I really wish we could just see a list of all the crazy stuff that must of been kicked around the office from reasonable to some insane thing some executive who never played a game in his life cooked up. Exec Idea #325 "So what I was thinking is since the US Federal Minimum wage is $7.50 an hour, and with the average game running around 30 minutes. We could charge them $3.00 a game, and everyone will love it!"
after playing with the new heros three new heros really becomes pay 3 get a minion or the largest amount or pay 3 mana to turn a tier 4 or lower minion golden. Its actually really good
They seem at least decent. I have not had much luck with the cloner Zerek I think. EVERY time I get him I can not get any minions that are even decent. Just bad luck more then his fault.
The minion pool major rework will at least make this more fun, but the minor mechanic being pay to use more is pretty annoying. However, if this is like how duos was in that its a permanent addition and you can get hero reroll tokens in every season from now on, thats actually pretty cool and good.
I wish you could opt out of the bonus exp. I am 7.2k rating now, but I remember having a horrible time early season because I suddenly didnt know most of the cards anymore and was just getting 150 points for getting 7-8th place over and over. It just doesn't make sense and is frustrating
I have long ranted about the MMR system being very flawed. I just do not like the way it fundamentally works. I can dream about it being revamped one day, but if it has been this way this long... not much hope!
My reroll system doesn't require money OR using a finite amount of tokens: forfeit and queue again. I will still climb in MMR because I only dislike a VERY small handful of heroes I find absolutely atrocious (Queen Wagtoggle, Lord Barov, Bru'kan, and SOMETIMES I have a dislike of Togwaggle and Flurgl). Being free to play and getting some combination of any of these two heroes would immediately result in my forfeiture. However, the likelihood of such happening is astronomically small so the % of times this will happen is near nil.
I don't have a single issue with the tokens.That's perfectly fine. I have a huge problem with the new damage cap, though. Anyone with a lick of sense is going to level level level at the beginning of the game. They need to scrap that new damage cap system immediately.
I think it's fine and even if it's pay to win, I think it's better and more fun than standard. I obviously have heroes I prefer, but you could win with anybody.
The only thing i would change is just put it in the regular battle pass since $15 is already extra for a battle pass compared to other gamez normally never mind 20
Love your videos Heretic and great realistic perspective on monetization. Wish cosmetics were good enough (I buy cosmetics but only the ones I personally like). Don't want to see battleground go down the route like some on their other game modes.
Very painful coming back from HS after 9 years and enjoying Battlegrounds for a month just for them to do the exact thing that made me leave before. It kind of makes me want to transition to TFT or something else. If TFT can figure out how to monetize without P2W i'm sure ActiBlizzard can
the monetization behind the 'season mechanic' is just flatout bad. i never really enjoyed battlegrounds previously but i did enjoy buddies and i do enjoy trinkets so removing that for a p2w mechanic is disgusting. my friends have all lost interest in battlegrounds and have been talking about returning to tft and im on that boat with them. i'll continue to play standard hearthstone but battlegrounds isn't happening this season.
These tokens are a disgusting form of microtransaction, I'm not against them having microtransactions but this is just icky and gross, like in an FPS being able to do a "basic reload" or pay a tiny amount for the "ULTRA RELOAD" that does a small amount of extra damage each clip. "its a cheap microtransaction!" "The extra damage barely does anything!!" I don't care it's gross and it pains me to see them taking this route
I think they should just make it so everyone has a free roll each day, and the premium pass has another and give it another skin like a real premium skin. Though honestly id prefer they made money off bgs via cosmetics which they dont seem to be even trying to do.
Yeah the cosmetics I think were a massive let down for them. They probably just made no money on it, and gave up. Would LOVE to see the numbers on that kind of data! Like what constitutes a failed attempt for them?
I don't like tokens. I have paid far more on battlegrounds via subscription than any other games I play. Other games that are directly competing for me, such as backpack battles, the Bazaar and Balatro (note these are all indie) are all single purchase models with comparable content release schedules and far fewer bugs. It's mind blowing to me that blizzard is able to get away with releasing consistently low quality bug infested content without losing their player base. The duos tavern spell naga has been bugged since release to appear over half your board. The co-op/invite system is dreadful constantly putting people into the wrong mode or having the portal disappear and for higher latency regions the rope consistently cuts off 10 seconds early. Hearthstone needs to make a AAA game before they ask for AAA subscription models.
They should monetize it by gate keeping the diehards, kind of like they already do. Something like: advertisements between games ( if you’re f2p) after your fifth game in 24 hours. Instead of just lame emotes they should add the option to pay for hilarious gif’s when that pop up for all players when you knock someone out, or get defeated. If done right that would be both funny as hell and allow for players to express themselves
Long as I can mute them I am happy... actually. I have been asking for a AUTOMUTE option. I always forget to, and then lose my crap when the emotes start. Can I pay for that!?
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So there's no new mechanic besides a one time use (if you're ftp) consumable pay to win mechanic that doesn't add anything to the game and just lets you play with other heroes that, for the most part, have all been there before the new season dropped. Yikes from me, feel like it needs to be more different to maintain interest imo. I know I don't play as much if it's the same old stuff, just different heroes.
They typically do not do a new mechanic WITH a massive minion rework. Basically all the tribes are getting a big rework like they did with Mechs. The new mechanic I would expect to be a month or two away since it will take awhile to balance out all the new minions.
Heck yea, I enjoy your videos for this content. I can't stand the other HS personality that also talks and vents about battlegrounds so it's refreshing that you make these videos.
Glad you like it! Everyone has there own style. I am in all honesty a VERY negative person at least I feel I am. I do also hate that side of myself so I "TRY" to be as possible as I can be to be positive. Mind you on stream often the negative slips out... example when I get emoted at lol.
Newer player here. The hero select screen had enough pay to win already considering you already got double the choices of free players by paying. The addition of a season+ pass is the most blizzard shid I’ve heard of. What is that garbage! Should I stick around and watch blizzard ruin another good game? I already did that with Overwatch. Hmm
I think this is the first time I downvote a video from this Heretic guy. The way he is trying to push this token reroll crap is disgusting, in my opinon. The token reroll system is a steaming pile of garbage. Raise prices. Do whatever. But do not condone introducing pay-to-win garbage in games. Game studios have been making games for over 40 years. Only in the last few years have game studios started trying to make all games pay-to-win because of corporate greed. This pay-to-win bullshit is a slippery slope. If people accept it (and unfortunately, people do) all games will continue to deteriorate into some trash mobile gacha game, which is not designed to be a game optimized for maximum player enjoyment, but an exploitation method optimized for profit extraction by greedy corporate overlords. Free to play is bad. Games should be monetized to reward to the producers of a good game. However, a good game allows players to compete with each other based on skill and luck, not based on how much money they throw at the game.
You can downvote the video if you do not like it that is the point of it I understand it bothers some people a lot about this subject. This was my opinion, and I still think it is fine as I want the game more than I care about any moral standpoint. That being said I agree on your final point 100% "Free to play is bad. Games should be monetized to reward to the producers of a good game. However, a good game allows players to compete with each other based on skill and luck, not based on how much money they throw at the game." This is the world I rather live in. I just feel it is impractical in our world, and I want BG's to stick around. So I make the deal with the devil.
What mechanic will replace trinkets? Im afraid to hear there will be no mechanic at all tbh UPD nevermind trinkets not gonna be replaced it'll just get removed... sad
Nothing will be replacing Trinkets initially. This is a normal thing they do when they do a major reword for the tribes. Usually about a month we will have no mechanic, they will patch a few times to get things better, and then either launch a new thing, or bring back one of the old mechanics like Anomalies, Quests, or Buddies.
I’m a simple man. I see heretic, I click.
Hot Take: These reroll tokens will not get them enough monetization and Battlegrounds is doomed to be dropped by Blizzard eventually. They could go even more aggressive with their monetization (like bonus armor or gold or shop refreshes) but that will just turn people away from the game.
We are doomed to watch a slow painful death of battlegrounds as more and more of it gets monetized and the monetization will never be enough to hit their targets.
I really, really doubt Battlegrounds is "doomed" to being dropped considering it's the game mode that's the most popular. Duels was not as popular as they wished; it wasn't played much. From what I gather, battlegrounds is played more than the base card game...
@mrsweetkandy7673 popularity doesn't matter if they can't make enough money off of it. In fact they would probably start seeing it as taking attention away from their other more profitable modes.
Sadly some of that is the wonders of our corporate world infecting gaming. Not much can be done about it, but damn it I want to enjoy my game as long as I can! Someone give me some more copium damn it!
@16:45 It's quite likely they roll 8 heros for each player and 'rerolling' just flips it to the 5th-8th selected hero. meaning if one player rolls away a hero, no one else has access to it irregardless
Reroll tokens sound stupid. Sure it prevents samey games, but the free track only having 8? And you need the premium premium pass to get 1 free reroll per game? Now no one will use em because they are a finite resource!
I think that is a possibility, and then there are the problem players like me... who might want to use far more then the SHOULD!
"Reroll tokens sound stupid. Sure it prevents samey games"
If anything I would expect rerolls too increase samey games since they make it more likely you will get a top hero. When you're only given 2 or 4 options, sometimes you gotta make do.
I'll be paying the $20, that's fine. I like to support the things I'm enjoying and someone has to so it doesn't go away. Fortunately for my opponents I'm doing it because I'm trying to knock out all those achievements so I'll be rerolling for all the bad heroes that I just can't seem to win with. I just knocked Onyxia off my list today! MMR reset seems like a good time to try doing the AFKay for 3 turns one; that seems likely to be the most difficult.
People upset about don't see that the $15 is access to +2 heroes, and an extra $5 for +1 hero in the form of a reroll. You can still get to a respectful rank on the free track, you just need to be better with a wider selection of heroes.
3 ways I would be okay with them monetizing it (that I think work best in tandem):
1. Make most future hero releases behind some kind of paywall. This could either be that they are gated behind the battle pass and F2P players get access to them next season, or they are buyable with gold, but like, a lot of gold (5k each). I have 30k gold saved up, if each season releases 3 single player heroes then that's 15k gold, which means I would have to save up again after 2 seasons and that's without any additional gold sink they can come up with for BG's. Maybe duos heroes are free to solve that potential headache.
2. Expand the trinket system to have "trinket slots", so you get 6 slots for each tribe (3 lesser, 3 greater), and 16 neutral slots (8 lesser, 8 greater). You get a default set of these, near the same amount as the current season. Then, you buy trinkets from the gift shop for gold, each one is 500 gold, if you get a duplicate you get 1/3 of the cost back in "dust" meaning after 3 duplicates you can craft any trinket you want. When they rebalance/change seasons if any trinkets you owned (outside of the core set) get changed or reworked you get the equivalent of dust back at the full 1:1 ratio so that way they can liberally change and rebalance the trinkets as they see fit.
3. Add another tier to the battle pass that you can pay for with gold that grants access to some extra things, including maybe one new hero if the heroes are paywalled behind the pass, some additional cosmetics and hero re-roll tokens and 1 additional hero selection slot (so 3 instead of the full 4 you get from the premium pass)
All interesting ideas.
I really wish we could just see a list of all the crazy stuff that must of been kicked around the office from reasonable to some insane thing some executive who never played a game in his life cooked up.
Exec Idea #325 "So what I was thinking is since the US Federal Minimum wage is $7.50 an hour, and with the average game running around 30 minutes. We could charge them $3.00 a game, and everyone will love it!"
Surprised this fella has only 7k followers
Those glasses fits bob so good
Makes my day when I see a new Heretic video. I love every single one of them. Looking forward to this new season. Thank you Heretic!
after playing with the new heros three new heros really becomes pay 3 get a minion or the largest amount or pay 3 mana to turn a tier 4 or lower minion golden. Its actually really good
They seem at least decent. I have not had much luck with the cloner Zerek I think. EVERY time I get him I can not get any minions that are even decent. Just bad luck more then his fault.
Are trinkets rotating?
Yes they are on December 3rd with the new patch.
The minion pool major rework will at least make this more fun, but the minor mechanic being pay to use more is pretty annoying. However, if this is like how duos was in that its a permanent addition and you can get hero reroll tokens in every season from now on, thats actually pretty cool and good.
I wish you could opt out of the bonus exp. I am 7.2k rating now, but I remember having a horrible time early season because I suddenly didnt know most of the cards anymore and was just getting 150 points for getting 7-8th place over and over. It just doesn't make sense and is frustrating
I have long ranted about the MMR system being very flawed. I just do not like the way it fundamentally works. I can dream about it being revamped one day, but if it has been this way this long... not much hope!
My reroll system doesn't require money OR using a finite amount of tokens: forfeit and queue again. I will still climb in MMR because I only dislike a VERY small handful of heroes I find absolutely atrocious (Queen Wagtoggle, Lord Barov, Bru'kan, and SOMETIMES I have a dislike of Togwaggle and Flurgl). Being free to play and getting some combination of any of these two heroes would immediately result in my forfeiture. However, the likelihood of such happening is astronomically small so the % of times this will happen is near nil.
Reroll Tokens in shop killed all my excitement for season not going to lie
Great video thank you for the explanation :)
good stuff coming heretic ;) excitingg
Amazing friend!!!
I don't have a single issue with the tokens.That's perfectly fine. I have a huge problem with the new damage cap, though. Anyone with a lick of sense is going to level level level at the beginning of the game. They need to scrap that new damage cap system immediately.
I think it's fine and even if it's pay to win, I think it's better and more fun than standard. I obviously have heroes I prefer, but you could win with anybody.
The only thing i would change is just put it in the regular battle pass since $15 is already extra for a battle pass compared to other gamez normally never mind 20
Love your videos Heretic and great realistic perspective on monetization. Wish cosmetics were good enough (I buy cosmetics but only the ones I personally like). Don't want to see battleground go down the route like some on their other game modes.
Very painful coming back from HS after 9 years and enjoying Battlegrounds for a month just for them to do the exact thing that made me leave before. It kind of makes me want to transition to TFT or something else. If TFT can figure out how to monetize without P2W i'm sure ActiBlizzard can
the monetization behind the 'season mechanic' is just flatout bad. i never really enjoyed battlegrounds previously but i did enjoy buddies and i do enjoy trinkets so removing that for a p2w mechanic is disgusting. my friends have all lost interest in battlegrounds and have been talking about returning to tft and im on that boat with them. i'll continue to play standard hearthstone but battlegrounds isn't happening this season.
I like it. At least they give you something for free tier.
These tokens are a disgusting form of microtransaction, I'm not against them having microtransactions but this is just icky and gross, like in an FPS being able to do a "basic reload" or pay a tiny amount for the "ULTRA RELOAD" that does a small amount of extra damage each clip. "its a cheap microtransaction!" "The extra damage barely does anything!!" I don't care it's gross and it pains me to see them taking this route
Yeah im just gonna keep conceding till i get a hero i like. 4 re-rolls for an entire season lmao? Ill use that in a day.
I will gladly buy 3 passes for my family once we get 4 heroes for free.
I think they should just make it so everyone has a free roll each day, and the premium pass has another and give it another skin like a real premium skin. Though honestly id prefer they made money off bgs via cosmetics which they dont seem to be even trying to do.
Yeah the cosmetics I think were a massive let down for them. They probably just made no money on it, and gave up. Would LOVE to see the numbers on that kind of data! Like what constitutes a failed attempt for them?
I don't like tokens. I have paid far more on battlegrounds via subscription than any other games I play. Other games that are directly competing for me, such as backpack battles, the Bazaar and Balatro (note these are all indie) are all single purchase models with comparable content release schedules and far fewer bugs. It's mind blowing to me that blizzard is able to get away with releasing consistently low quality bug infested content without losing their player base. The duos tavern spell naga has been bugged since release to appear over half your board. The co-op/invite system is dreadful constantly putting people into the wrong mode or having the portal disappear and for higher latency regions the rope consistently cuts off 10 seconds early. Hearthstone needs to make a AAA game before they ask for AAA subscription models.
👎no to unfair monetization
They should monetize it by gate keeping the diehards, kind of like they already do. Something like: advertisements between games ( if you’re f2p) after your fifth game in 24 hours.
Instead of just lame emotes they should add the option to pay for hilarious gif’s when that pop up for all players when you knock someone out, or get defeated. If done right that would be both funny as hell and allow for players to express themselves
Long as I can mute them I am happy... actually. I have been asking for a AUTOMUTE option. I always forget to, and then lose my crap when the emotes start. Can I pay for that!?
be nice to have a ai bartender that you could talk to
These are only available to our Platinum Angel Tier Customers. If you would like to upgrade at this time simply blink twice, and we will charge you $500 a week to join!
@Heretic721 my daddy will pay for it lol
when I took the survey I advised against all this token BS. Hope it doesn't open pay to win and ruin the game.
you didnt hit with this one Unc
They can not all be bangers!
So there's no new mechanic besides a one time use (if you're ftp) consumable pay to win mechanic that doesn't add anything to the game and just lets you play with other heroes that, for the most part, have all been there before the new season dropped. Yikes from me, feel like it needs to be more different to maintain interest imo. I know I don't play as much if it's the same old stuff, just different heroes.
They typically do not do a new mechanic WITH a massive minion rework. Basically all the tribes are getting a big rework like they did with Mechs. The new mechanic I would expect to be a month or two away since it will take awhile to balance out all the new minions.
Please do not let the new mechanic be Buddies 3.0
Heck yea, I enjoy your videos for this content. I can't stand the other HS personality that also talks and vents about battlegrounds so it's refreshing that you make these videos.
Glad you like it! Everyone has there own style. I am in all honesty a VERY negative person at least I feel I am. I do also hate that side of myself so I "TRY" to be as possible as I can be to be positive. Mind you on stream often the negative slips out... example when I get emoted at lol.
Reroll tokens are such a lame idea. More ways punish players for being f2p
Newer player here. The hero select screen had enough pay to win already considering you already got double the choices of free players by paying. The addition of a season+ pass is the most blizzard shid I’ve heard of. What is that garbage!
Should I stick around and watch blizzard ruin another good game? I already did that with Overwatch. Hmm
I have infinite free rerolls its the concede button
That is a massive feature of my alt account. Bad heroes? CONCEDE!
Basicly BG is pay2win now by chasing toptier hero lol god i hate blizzard... all about milking the fan... F them
I think this is the first time I downvote a video from this Heretic guy. The way he is trying to push this token reroll crap is disgusting, in my opinon.
The token reroll system is a steaming pile of garbage. Raise prices. Do whatever. But do not condone introducing pay-to-win garbage in games. Game studios have been making games for over 40 years. Only in the last few years have game studios started trying to make all games pay-to-win because of corporate greed. This pay-to-win bullshit is a slippery slope. If people accept it (and unfortunately, people do) all games will continue to deteriorate into some trash mobile gacha game, which is not designed to be a game optimized for maximum player enjoyment, but an exploitation method optimized for profit extraction by greedy corporate overlords.
Free to play is bad. Games should be monetized to reward to the producers of a good game. However, a good game allows players to compete with each other based on skill and luck, not based on how much money they throw at the game.
You can downvote the video if you do not like it that is the point of it I understand it bothers some people a lot about this subject. This was my opinion, and I still think it is fine as I want the game more than I care about any moral standpoint.
That being said I agree on your final point 100% "Free to play is bad. Games should be monetized to reward to the producers of a good game. However, a good game allows players to compete with each other based on skill and luck, not based on how much money they throw at the game." This is the world I rather live in. I just feel it is impractical in our world, and I want BG's to stick around. So I make the deal with the devil.
Stop defending them with the P2W. People like you are a problem in gaming^^
What mechanic will replace trinkets? Im afraid to hear there will be no mechanic at all tbh
UPD nevermind trinkets not gonna be replaced it'll just get removed... sad
Nothing will be replacing Trinkets initially. This is a normal thing they do when they do a major reword for the tribes. Usually about a month we will have no mechanic, they will patch a few times to get things better, and then either launch a new thing, or bring back one of the old mechanics like Anomalies, Quests, or Buddies.