A quick walkthrough of how we lubricate our rotary valves in the shop. Made using an Eastman 828 valve section and Hetman Light Rotary and Bearing/Linkage oils...
Thank you so much! I just got my first trombone with an f attachment (I've been playing 4 years) and had no idea why it was sticking, I though I broke something :) Very helpful video.
You can certainly use rotor oil for both the interior and exterior; with that said, as the external points of contact (the spindle, linkage joints, paddle assembly) are more exposed a heavier weight oil may sit on the surface better and provide longer lasting protection (plus it is less likely to run off on ones clothing... ;). )
The Hetman 13 is designed more for the exterior bearing and linkage surfaces of the valve as it is a slightly heavier, thicker oil vs. the 11-12 which is thinner and designed more for valve interiors. To answer your question, I wouldn’t expect using the 13 on the interior to damage your valve at all. The bigger question for me is the performance; if your valve moves quickly and freely with the 13 I don’t know if I would make a change. However, if you wanted to see if a thinner oil would increase speed it may be worth experimentation...
Normal meaning piston valve oil and/or petroleum-based? Piston valve oil can work but it tends to be a lighter weight and thus will need more frequent application; it also may not provide the same protection as rotor valve oil. Whether one uses petroleum or synthetic I would recommend utilizing rotor-specific oil to help ensure the proper protection...
Why drop the oil down from the tuning slide end? Invert the instrument, and drop it in through the handslide receiver. Much easier, and less chance of damaging the tuning slide (yes, it happens)
It is a very fair point, and certainly an issue we have encountered as well. In general I think the concept is trying to keep things as easy and safe as possible, especially with younger students in mind, and the idea of having the be relatively secure, and being able to keep it on the same surface for both the internal and external oiling. With that said it is only one approach and we are certainly open to the wisdom of a master like yourself :)
Absolutely! I usually like to use the 12 for rotors and the 11 for axial flow valves; The 12 often seems to be just a little thick for the tight tolerances and larger surface area of the axial flows...
I’ve been trying to quiet a rotary valve on my Eastman ETB420 for some time now. 1 year ago, I had it professionally cleaned, and got it back with a loud rotor, which keeps getting worse. The bumpers are a year old, the instrument is about 5 years old and in perfect shape otherwise. I am lubricating it perfectly and often using Hetmann’s light rotor, light linkage, and ball joint. All screws are perfect. Any idea on what might be wrong with it? (No, it is not the Shires in my profile picture with the axial flow valve, it is a standard rotor valve on an ETB420). Watch it here ua-cam.com/video/bpWBMwKqcrE/v-deo.html Thumbs up for creating a video that is specific and correct on an important subject!!!
First guess (and I am not a great tech) is that the valve has a touch of play inside the casing and is making noise as it moves along the spindle axis. It sound like you already did but I would check the screws on the stop arm plate on the back of the valve casing, along with the screw on the spindle to make sure there is no movement; I would also check the bearing plate under the valve cap to make sure that it is fully seated in the casing (if not, I would recommend seeing a tech to make sure the plate is seated and the valve is aligned properly.). Assuming you don't find anything here I would check the linkages for excess play and movement; if you hold the valve spindle still and try to activate the lever there should be no movement. If you notice a bit of play a thicker linkage oil may help; if there is a lot of play one of the linkage arms may need to be tightened or one of the ball joints may have excess wear and may need to be replaced. Just a cursory guess; if none of these look like the culprit I would absolutely recommend having a tech in your area take a look. Good luck and let me know how things turn out!
Thank you so much! I just got my first trombone with an f attachment (I've been playing 4 years) and had no idea why it was sticking, I though I broke something :) Very helpful video.
thank u my hero ily 😔🙏
Time stamps:
Applying light rotor oil 1:23
Applying thicker rotor oil 3:22
Do you use Hetman 15 Ball Joint Oil? Is Hetman 11 okay to use on a rotor valve? Thank you!
Hey I just got my new Conn Trombone and I came with Vincent Bach Synthetic rotor oil and I was wondering if that would work for inside and outside
You can certainly use rotor oil for both the interior and exterior; with that said, as the external points of contact (the spindle, linkage joints, paddle assembly) are more exposed a heavier weight oil may sit on the surface better and provide longer lasting protection (plus it is less likely to run off on ones clothing... ;). )
I've been using Hetman 13 all around. Will that damage my horn? I've seen a lot of people use Hetman 11
The Hetman 13 is designed more for the exterior bearing and linkage surfaces of the valve as it is a slightly heavier, thicker oil vs. the 11-12 which is thinner and designed more for valve interiors. To answer your question, I wouldn’t expect using the 13 on the interior to damage your valve at all. The bigger question for me is the performance; if your valve moves quickly and freely with the 13 I don’t know if I would make a change. However, if you wanted to see if a thinner oil would increase speed it may be worth experimentation...
Is light bearing oil the same as light bearing and linkage oil thanks
Will normal valve oil work?
Normal meaning piston valve oil and/or petroleum-based? Piston valve oil can work but it tends to be a lighter weight and thus will need more frequent application; it also may not provide the same protection as rotor valve oil. Whether one uses petroleum or synthetic I would recommend utilizing rotor-specific oil to help ensure the proper protection...
Thankyou this helped a lot!!!
Why drop the oil down from the tuning slide end? Invert the instrument, and drop it in through the handslide receiver. Much easier, and less chance of damaging the tuning slide (yes, it happens)
It is a very fair point, and certainly an issue we have encountered as well. In general I think the concept is trying to keep things as easy and safe as possible, especially with younger students in mind, and the idea of having the be relatively secure, and being able to keep it on the same surface for both the internal and external oiling. With that said it is only one approach and we are certainly open to the wisdom of a master like yourself :)
Hetman 12?
Absolutely! I usually like to use the 12 for rotors and the 11 for axial flow valves; The 12 often seems to be just a little thick for the tight tolerances and larger surface area of the axial flows...
I’ve been trying to quiet a rotary valve on my Eastman ETB420 for some time now. 1 year ago, I had it professionally cleaned, and got it back with a loud rotor, which keeps getting worse. The bumpers are a year old, the instrument is about 5 years old and in perfect shape otherwise. I am lubricating it perfectly and often using Hetmann’s light rotor, light linkage, and ball joint. All screws are perfect. Any idea on what might be wrong with it? (No, it is not the Shires in my profile picture with the axial flow valve, it is a standard rotor valve on an ETB420). Watch it here ua-cam.com/video/bpWBMwKqcrE/v-deo.html
Thumbs up for creating a video that is specific and correct on an important subject!!!
First guess (and I am not a great tech) is that the valve has a touch of play inside the casing and is making noise as it moves along the spindle axis. It sound like you already did but I would check the screws on the stop arm plate on the back of the valve casing, along with the screw on the spindle to make sure there is no movement; I would also check the bearing plate under the valve cap to make sure that it is fully seated in the casing (if not, I would recommend seeing a tech to make sure the plate is seated and the valve is aligned properly.). Assuming you don't find anything here I would check the linkages for excess play and movement; if you hold the valve spindle still and try to activate the lever there should be no movement. If you notice a bit of play a thicker linkage oil may help; if there is a lot of play one of the linkage arms may need to be tightened or one of the ball joints may have excess wear and may need to be replaced. Just a cursory guess; if none of these look like the culprit I would absolutely recommend having a tech in your area take a look. Good luck and let me know how things turn out!