Wow that's incredible, to see how much this kind of thinking is already going on here before Christ. No doubt Jesus brings it to complete fulfillment for all creation and all mankind, but Job was already one counted as the wicked, knowing the sufferings of the wicked in order to save them in some way. I don't tend to expect to see that in the OT. And to see it play out in the story helps to really think about how this concretely works in us in real life. These are really difficult things to follow in the text, so it's really helpful to hear these pointers.
But yeah this is the question i have, how does Job go from ch 21 insisting that its false consolation to say the wicked will receive justice, bc they clearly live with untroubled consciences, well respected and die happy - to ch 27 where he seems to say the opposite. I dont see anything indicating hes talking about the afterlife or anything. Any idea whats going on with that?
Great question. The first thing is that Job is always bouncing between the limits of what can be perceived. Here he bounced between "the wicked prosper" to "the wicked will suffer." As for the prosperity of the wicked, Job does this to refute the friends' arguments supporting the doctrine of retribution. Job's first attempt was to say, "I'm innocent, and I'm suffering." When the friend says,"Yeah, right." Job makes the inverse of the argument that "the wicked prosper", because it is obvious to see wicked people who don't suffer at all. Job 27 is a bit more tricky. Because of the previous argument, one might think Job believes God is completely arbitrary, but Job doesn't. (Again, this is another point Job bounces between limits on) He seems to say in 27 that "I have suffered the fate of the wicked." and he wishes that his fate will be their fate. I think he does this because he truly does want the world to be just. He can not believe that everything is arbitrary and has no real meaning. I think this is why his friends don't speak again. Job has in a way, affirmed the doctrine of retribution but shows that he himself has been dealt with wrongly and nothing they can say can break through the argument. Its something like that...
This is a beautiful reflection
Thank you
Wow that's incredible, to see how much this kind of thinking is already going on here before Christ. No doubt Jesus brings it to complete fulfillment for all creation and all mankind, but Job was already one counted as the wicked, knowing the sufferings of the wicked in order to save them in some way. I don't tend to expect to see that in the OT. And to see it play out in the story helps to really think about how this concretely works in us in real life. These are really difficult things to follow in the text, so it's really helpful to hear these pointers.
But yeah this is the question i have, how does Job go from ch 21 insisting that its false consolation to say the wicked will receive justice, bc they clearly live with untroubled consciences, well respected and die happy - to ch 27 where he seems to say the opposite. I dont see anything indicating hes talking about the afterlife or anything. Any idea whats going on with that?
Great question. The first thing is that Job is always bouncing between the limits of what can be perceived. Here he bounced between "the wicked prosper" to "the wicked will suffer."
As for the prosperity of the wicked, Job does this to refute the friends' arguments supporting the doctrine of retribution. Job's first attempt was to say, "I'm innocent, and I'm suffering." When the friend says,"Yeah, right." Job makes the inverse of the argument that "the wicked prosper", because it is obvious to see wicked people who don't suffer at all.
Job 27 is a bit more tricky. Because of the previous argument, one might think Job believes God is completely arbitrary, but Job doesn't. (Again, this is another point Job bounces between limits on) He seems to say in 27 that "I have suffered the fate of the wicked." and he wishes that his fate will be their fate. I think he does this because he truly does want the world to be just. He can not believe that everything is arbitrary and has no real meaning.
I think this is why his friends don't speak again. Job has in a way, affirmed the doctrine of retribution but shows that he himself has been dealt with wrongly and nothing they can say can break through the argument. Its something like that...
First!
😁