Signs of A Complicit Relationship Intermission: The Zacloud Fallacy [OG, CC & REMAKE SPOILERS]
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2020
- CLERITH: Signs of a Complicit Relationship
-I have to create this intermission vid to explain this great misconception that Cloud has Zack's memories and feelings.
PART I : What Aerith Means to Cloud
• Signs of a Complicit R...
PART II: What Cloud Means to Aerith
• Signs of a Complicit R...
PART III: Completing Each Others Missing Pieces
• Signs of a Complicit R...
PART IV: Love Beyond the Surface of a Game
A Complicit Relationship
Sharing the same ideas doesn’t necessarily mean that there is complicity in your relationship. It’s not just about harmony between two people… Complicity goes much, much deeper; it’s a question of providing your partner with what they’re missing!
Music used for intro and outro:
Final Fantasy VII Remake - OST: Descendant of the Ancients
• Video
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DISCLAIMER:
Footage is from the PS1 game Final Fantasy VII, PSP game FF7: Crisis Core, and the PS4 game Final Fantasy VII Remake. The credits go to its creators.
Fair Use:
"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing." - Ігри
![Signs of a Complicit Relationship - PART III: Completing Each Others Missing Pieces [RE SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wfFv0iVni9I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Signs of a Complicit Relationship - PART III: Completing Each Others Missing Pieces [RE SPOILERS]](/img/tr.png)
![Signs of a Complicit Relationship - PART II: What Cloud Means to Aerith [CC & REMAKE SPOILERS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HGFUnXl_D9g/mqdefault.jpg)
I was gonna add the Dream Sequence at the end like my other vids and have zacloud and Aerith interact... it's funny how the DS scene actually would go if it was Zack instead of Cloud. But I decided against it. I don't want to taint the moment. lol
I'd say it's a good thing you didn't. It's all Cloud and Aerith's moment. We can't have Zack there to mess it all up.
@@oldchannelforayoungstupidf2649 Yeah, I just wanted to show how different it would have been and thus prove that Zack was definitely not there. But I could not make myself do it.
I hope you realise you have started a Clerith movement here that can never be extinguished. Rise Clerith, RISE!!
Pollen Annie
Knowing Square they will try to please the Tifa fans, for example look at the ending of the ff7 original film advent children, the credit endings had only two characters cloud and Aerith while the new remastered or complete version they removed the Aerith scene which might be done on purpose to please the Tifa fans, anyhow even if they removed aerith in the scene it was still big hint of clerith seeing as Cloud was traveling in a road full of flowers that are obviously hers
@Rain This is what actually worries me the most. That, because the Cloti fandom has become so big now (and so freakin’ damn loud), which baffles me cause the Cloti thing makes no sense whatsoever, SE might throw out of the window 23 years of content and statement just for marketing reasons and economic logic. Which would not only be really cynical but would also devoid the game’s whole story of its sense and meaning.
Also note that Cloud still deeply loves Aerith after he broke the illusion as he struggled to live without her and develops severe depression in AC which lead to him moving to her church because he really misses her and thinks it’s all his fault. Everyone told Cloud that he needed to “ move on” and to “stop acting like he has it so hard.” All they did was push him away except Aerith who treated him with complete empathy and was the only one to do so. She made him sure that it wasn’t his fault and praised him for just making it out. He came clean to Tifa and told her his problems avd feelings and she just told him to get a grip but Aerith fully supported and comforted him and it made him feel so much better hearing her voice. It’s obvious to me that Clerith are meant for each other
Yea,alot of people think that cloud automatically lost his feelings for aerith after she died when that was clearly not the case,neither aerith or cloud lost their feelings for eachother. And the fact that tifa was designed in a way to be a ideal girl for the "regular western male fetish"(super slim body but giant boobies and heavily exposed) doesn't help since,with very attractive women comes a very high amount of simps that refuse to acknowledge any of her flaws even when she was written with them,almost to make her feel more "realistic"and"human" and if you dare say a bad thing about her they want you to do the be a witch during the middle ages challenge(in other words,they want you to kill yourself.)
@@arwinado Exactly, tifa and cloud are never really presented as a couple. Cloud still cares about Aerith after she’s gone too. “Aerith, I’ll do the rest” he sees this as his and Aerith’s mission and forgets about everyone else. Cid has to tell him otherwise too. And in AC Cloud clearly still loves Aerith. She’s the only one who supported him through it all. She helped him restore himself and he loves her. I’m the remake they’re clearly pushing Cloud and Aerith too. They spent 6 hours developing their relationship and gave us some beautiful moments. Chapter 8 and 9 are some of the best experiences you can have in gaming because of these 2 characters and the people and locations that surround them. I can’t wait for more in part 2 it’s gonna be amazing
@@_Archo i mostly agree. I personally stand with the perspective that the reason the LT exists is because SE wants the player to decide which ship they see fit,so i wouldn't call clerith the "canon couple",since neither Cloti or clerith are really canon in the end. Clerith only feels like the canon couple when in reality they are just the couple that matches better,but not necessarily canon. Case and point: clerith doesn't invalidate cloti and vice verca,even if i prefer clerith.
@@arwinado I just think that Cloud is in love with Aerith. I’ve always thought that for as long as I’ve played this game. Their relationship is important to the story and i hope they kiss in part 2. They will
I just find it so touching that when he got geostigma, he chose Aeriths church to stay in since it soothes him the most 💛 you can tell Aerith made him the happiest out of everyone in game.
I'm gonna link this video whenever I see someone suggest that Cloud only likes Aerith because he has Zack's memories to debunk it.
@Owen SUNDER lol
Yeah this is so obvious, Zack has just inspired the fake memories of cloud. There's no Zack inside him, just a story he made with both his memories and Zack story.
It's so obvious really. I just dont know why like half the fanbase or even more still believe this fallacy.
@@PollenAinneprobably because they don't understand or just because they don't want to admit the truth (I don't like the aerith Vs tifa stuff, but I gotta admit that what your videos are talking about is so damn logical).
I'm glad you'r restoring some truth about our characters, thanks 😉
@@PollenAinne While it is true the problem is the story makes no sense. Cloud remembers things neither he nor Tifa could know - the basement talk when Sephiroth storms out. The only one who except Zack could know is Sephiroth and the story never said he filled in the remaining blanks. And nothing that fans say will change that. Regardless of that Aerith was always supposed to be the more meaningful and transcending romance for Cloud.
@@Cetra29 There are considerable plot holes for sure. There is always a suspension of disbelief required in every game. However, such instances aren't as blatant and are easily explainable rather than the fact that Cloud has zero recollection of Zack's parents, Zack's time with Aerith, and his relationship with the Turks. These are core elements to Zack's story and the fact that Cloud has zero knowledge of these tells us that he never took Zack's memories.
@@PollenAinne Unfortunately they are not easily explainable because, and I have to repeat this often, our words mean nothing. When it is not explained it is not explained. I can do that, too. It is just useless. That Cloud has his memories could also easily be written by Nojima as "he only took those memories he needed for the Nibelheim incident" and immediately your concerns are gone. But as I said, it needs to be said by those whose words have weight.
Regardless of that, that Aerith knows the difference of Cloud and Zack is a fact, no matter where the memories are from. Aerith has proven to be able to distinguish. Even if Cloud took Zack's memories and not Tifa's, the game shows something that a lot of people still do not understand: Cloud''s personality does not really change much. He always had a self-critical side, introverted, dorky, douchy. His confabulation merely enhanced those and made him a bit more of a poser at times, exclaimed his introverted side, his arrogant side, etc. Especially if we look at Crisis Core that we now have, Cloud behaves nothing like Zack, no matter the facade or not. The only real thing he took from Zack was that Zack wanted to become a mercenary and as we can see from that, even there Cloud approaches people a lot different.
His mask only helped to swipe away the doubts, trauma and all that and he could withstand his consciousness crumbling more. It does not change anything about how Cloud's basic characteristics are still on the surface so it is really idiotic when people do not understand the metaphor of what is meant with "real Cloud." He is the real Cloud. It is his consciousness and his primary traits. He is just not fully aware of his life and his normal behaviour (that as said, is very similiar) and healthy. Him not being the real Cloud is only true as in "you are not being yourself right now" - it means nothing on an existential level. And Aerith and Cloud acknowledge each other even after she died and after Tifa removed his facade so they absolutely treat him like one person. I do not know why so many people want to resist this entire storytelling. It is not like that is all there is to be found about the dynamics between the two of them. It is true that there is not the traditional teenie romance dialogue all the time or romcom dialogue or whatever so it even appears different to me at times but that is only because the delivery is different. It just is the narration, The meaning of their relationship is not actually different that way, except for the fact that it is thematically more fitting because it is very spiritual.
I would also never deny that Cloud and Tifa like each other very much. Cloud and Aerith are just on a whole other level.
He didn't have Zack's memories. He had his own. It's like people didn't even play the original game where Cloud retells the entire Nibelheim incident perfectly from his own POV.
The one flaw in his memories was thinking he was a SOLDIER first class instead of a grunt. This flaw didn't come from Zack. It came from his own shame and baggage and he just used Zack to hide the fact he never made it into SOLDIER.
He doesnt retell it perfectly though he has Zacks memories, Cloud is standing outside with Tifa when Sephiroth goes crazy at the reactor. Its Zack who checks on Sephiroth in the manor Cloud never goes inside the basement. The entire memory In Kalm is flawed. Tge baggage of shame is true though.
@@mrdarkstar3756 He does. Because he was in the room. He saw everything.
ua-cam.com/video/ih7s1e55tZI/v-deo.html
This fandom myth is my most hated after the "Aerith still loves Zack" one. I want to find whoever started it and kick them in the shins. The game spells it out plainly as you point out in your video and you've still got comments from people refusing to let go of their head canon because of ships. Great video.
This comment sums up why I hate the cloti fanbase so much.
@@potatoking4227 i think it's all an issue of "hey,MAYBE this game made in JAPAN and translated over to ENGLISH,a COMPLETELY DIFERRENT LANGUAGE,by people that most likely DON'T SPEAK JAPANESE,MIGHT have SOME translation issues so MAYBE i should make sure to check the original japanese script and not make any stupid claims using the FLAWED TRANSLATION?"
Hey so I get your annoyance and how that argument is used badly. But I think that this argument being seen as a bad thing really sheds light on what, i believe, is the worst problem with shipping in the FF7 community. People don't seem to understand that you can love more than one person at a time.
Aerith still loving Zack doesn't mean she can't love Cloud. Her trying to form a relationship with Cloud is not wrong or disrespectful, Zack's gone and Aerith deserves to be with someone she loves and makes her happy and that doesn't mean she'll stop loving Zack and treassuring his memory. It's actually a very good thing, as it shows their relationship was healthy and she doesn't feel the obligation to stay alone the rest of her life because "Zack is her only love".
This same idea goes for Clerith and Cloti, most people will take sides and say that Cloud only loves Tifa or Aerith and will try to devalidate the other relationship, when in reality Cloud loves both of them, for their own reasons and neither of those feelings are more valid than the other. What I said earlier about Aerith treassuring Zack while loving Cloud also applies very well to people saying Cloti is the only true ship because Aerith's gone. Just because Aerith's gone and Cloud and Tifa become a couple, it doesn't mean Cloud's love for Aerith is suddenly gone (I mean, it's implied their somewhat of a couple in AC and that doesn't stop Cloud from mourning Aerith and treassuring her memory, so like this is a canon fact)
I honestly think a lot of people in the community hold very negative and even harmful ideas of what love is, so it taints how they think of the relationships on FF7, which wouldn't be surprising since the original is from 1997 and well, our current perception of love isn't the best so, you can imagine how broken it must've been back then....
its especially weird since, in the ps1 original, Aerith even knowing Zack is completely missable. unless you have Aerith in your party during the first trip to gongaga, then you wont even know that Zack is the guy she had feelings for. hell, I'm pretty sure the first trip to Gongaga is optional in the ps1 game, so even if you keep her in the party all the time she's available you still might miss this.
4:55 Tifa, please.... PLEASE tell me you were just making a joke in poor taste. Because if even BARRET was more encouraging towards Cloud after he revealed something deeply painful and personal about himself.... now you know why I wanted Cloud to be with Aerith instead.
I mean, I can't even...
COMMON MISCONCEPTION. Cloud does not possess Zack’s memories and therefore he doesn’t act like as if he was possessed by him. He just claimed Zack’s accomplishments, not his feelings.
If you really played the OG, the whole point of Cloud’s identity crisis is that Sephiroth was able to make him believe that he is just his puppet by letting him assumed that his false recollection of the Nibelheim tragedy is true. Thus, when the truth was revealed to him - that it was actually Zack in his place (and forgetting that he was there too when the tragedy happened), he suddenly questioned his existence as a real person and/or doubt that he had his own free will (when during the OG course of events, Sephiroth was able to make him do things against his liking because of the JENOVA cells injected inside him.) He was thinking that maybe Sephiroth was right about him being just his remnant (that he was just like the black hooded people or Kadaj gang in AC). That’s how the war hero planning to get even with Cloud - to destroy him mentally and emotionally by invalidating his feelings (look back to Sephiroth’s last words to Cloud after killing Aerith - he invalidated Cloud’s feelings and told him he was just a puppet.)
But, thankfully, the lifestream sequence happened, with the help of Tifa (and Aerith for making sure they survived from the exposure to the lifestream - lorewise, if I wouldn’t assume it was Aerith who aid them - like how it was told in the ex-canon novel The Maiden Who Travels the Planet -, I doubt that the two could ever get out alive), they were able to isolate and pinpoint that Cloud had distorted memories of that event only. And he was starting to remember that he was there too when the tragedy happened (Tifa was only informed at that time too because she didn’t know too), while he also realized all his other past memories remained intact and are true being a real resident of Nibelheim. In that lifestream scene, we found out that Tifa and Cloud had an accident and Cloud was blamed for it. Tifa and Cloud weren’t close back when they were kids because of the boys surrounding her made him an outcast. That’s why, at the start, she was having a hard time convincing him that they were indeed childhood friends, even about their promise scene being true because it’s the only time they had an actual interaction. But nevertheless, she was the only living witness to validate Cloud’s existence.
Cloud just went out there assuming he was a 1st Class SOLDIER because the mako poisoning messed up how his brain functions. Thus, with poor cognitive performance, he associated himself so much with Zack’s accomplishments as a SOLDIER (and you may say that part of the reason is ‘becoming a SOLDIER’ is Cloud’s failed dream/frustration). Psychologists might be able to explain it better how it works if we will apply real-life logic.
But moving on, so when he and Tifa digged deeper into his consciousness and finally learned that all his past memories are true and only his memories of the tragedy is false (or half false because he was really there but the actual events just happened differently from what he believed plus his vague memories up to their escape to Midgar) - He realized that he just really didn’t make it as a SOLDIER but that doesn’t totally mean that he wasn’t a real person who has his own will after all. Despite being delusional and ashamed fool, he can still live out his dream as a hero to save the people dear to him - Therefore, he was able to break free from Sephiroth’s evil manipulation and, more than ever, he is determined to stop him. That’s what actually made Cloud’s whole character arc beautiful (which is almost comparable with FFIX Vivi).
That’s why, for me, Cloud is somehow still being himself both in the OG and Remake. Meaning, the “Fake Cloud” we are saying here is the Cloud being himself (egocentric, rude, indifferent) but only assuming he was once a SOLDIER. That’s why he was portrayed cocky and pretending-to-know-his-ways when, at times, he was just as clueless (like Aerith pointed it out to him few times in the Remake and OG). You may say Zack influenced him to be a mercenary, but how exactly to be one, it’s still Cloud’s own way and experience as we see in the game (OG and Remake).
If you still believe that Cloud possessed Zack’s memories, think of the following questions:
1) Why Cloud doesn’t recognize every person Zack met? The Turks? Zack’s parents in Gongaga? More importantly, Aerith? Cloud even forgot Aerith the 2nd time he met her in the church, right?
2) Why Cloud doesn’t feel any “deja vu” when he visits places where Zack had been? Why is he not familiar with Aerith’s Church and him falling inside it? It happened the same way to Zack, true?
3) Why can he still remember correctly his childhood in Nibelheim, along with his memories of his mother?
4) Outside the Nibelheim tragedy up to their escape to Midgar, are there any other memories of Cloud distorted?
5) Did we see any trace of Zack’s memories inside Cloud’s consciousness during the lifestream sequence? Did we filtered out a memory about Zack?
6) Memories should change our behavior and personality (so many movies and literature out there also show how it’s supposed to work) but how come Cloud and Zack remained polar opposites? Zack being people person and warm while Cloud remained aloof and cold?
If you can rationalize around these questions well enough to support your claim, then I might believe you. Otherwise, I’m still convinced that Cloud doesn’t have his friend’s memories like literally in his head as how most of you assumed it. Zack may have hugely influenced him - like being a mercenary, but how exactly to be one is still Cloud’s own experience.
On the side note, this is the reason why “Tifa not telling Cloud the truth about Zack and the Nibelheim incident as early as she can”, for me, has a significant bearing to his identity crisis in OG. The real problems might have been identified (if not solved) earlier if only she reacted to Cloud immediately when he told his own version story of the Nibelheim tragedy to them. This dynamics can be further explored and explained in the Remake. It would be interesting to know deeper why Tifa didn’t tell Cloud the truth for almost the entire game. We will see how the Remake will handle that.
I think one of the reasons why Tifa did not push Cloud harder about his past, even though she knew something was wrong, was because they just were not that close early on in the game. Tifa tries to bring it up in her apartment room in Remake, but Cloud says it is not really something he'd talk about with someone that he hasn't seen in a while. They were never friends when they were children. And outside of the windmill scene, where Tifa pushed Cloud to promise to come and rescue her when he becomes a SOLDIER, they never really exchanged words with each other. They just didn't know how to talk with each other in most cases. This is a prevalent theme between these two characters that continues into Advent Children and some other post OG novels.
@@neoexodeath...agreed on that. I just want to add that part of the reason is also because Tifa herself was confused about their past. She falsely believed that she and Cloud were childhood friends along with other things until Cloud jolted her memories in the Lifestream.
Good job! 👍
On a side note, does that mean infantrymen cloud person in Crisis Core is false? (Cloud being a little more cheered up around Zack) Or it just because excitement in new environment?
@@incogniftoar3943 That was probably true. Cloud was cheerful around Zack and that was before the incident, so no trauma there, just acceptance from a SOLDER first class he made friends with.
To be fair to Tifa, while staying quiet was ultimately the wrong thing to do, she did it bc she was afraid for Cloud and how he might react. She can clearly see that something's wrong w/ him (even more so in the Remake), but she doesn't know why or how he got messed up. She's afraid of hurting him further and potentially pushing him off the deep end (after all, she had a front row seat for what happened to Nibelheim after a certain other SOLDIER went berserk...). So she didn't say anything, bc she wanted more time to try to figure out what was wrong w/ him before trying to confront him about it, and she did make a few tentative attempts to get him to open up to her more (particularly after he has his episodes in the Remake). But her hesitancy was also exacerbated by the fact that Tifa herself is shy and a bit insecure, and she has difficulties in speaking up about her feelings, and she isn't good w/ confrontations. Remake does a particularly good job in showcasing how she's constantly trying to be the peacekeeper, and shows how she often she suppresses her true feelings and puts on a smiling mask (like that scene in ch 3 when Tifa's at the bar w/ Cloud, right before Barret kicks him out of the Avalanche celebration, or how she tries to hide her nervousness before the reactor 5 mission). These are qualities and flaws that Tifa always possessed; all the Remake is doing is highlighting those traits, and adding in even more moments and scenes to exemplify them (which is pretty much what the Remake does w/ every aspect of the game, really, especially when it comes to the characters).
So, basically....we already know why Tifa didn't say anything. The Remake is just making it even clearer. :)
You could also point out their personalities. Cloud comes off as cold and harsh, a loner. But Zack is energetic fun loving and friendly. Zack wanted to be a hero, but Cloud is acting as merc working for money. Cloud literally has none of Zack’s personality traits.
Your right. I mentioned the difference of their personalities in the previous vid.
Pollen Ainne hmmm must have missed that one. 🤔
The amount of people not realizing this is just sad, especially after the remake came out, I see alot of Cloti/Zerith fans spreading around this misconception. It's just so pathetic and delusional. New players might believe what they said, that's the worst part.
Edit: I'm glad to see that there is alot of people correcting this mistake across the fandom and videos.
I guess there is hope after all(?)...
@Aaron9 Glad to hear it bc his feelings for her are real!
I started playing with the remake and I didn't know anything about the OG and A LOT of people told me that in the end Cloud and Tifa got together and Aerith only loved Zack, and also that Cloud thinks he likes Aerith because of Zack's memories. Thank god I did some research myself or I would have believed them :(
This got me thinking.
It’s interesting how your video reverses the idea that AerithxCloud are fooled by the notion of Zacloud, and maybe leaves room to wonder if TifaxCloud is actually the pairing that is fueled by a minor version of this illusion.
Cloud does confuse his role and actions at Nibelheim for Zack's, not all of his personality, memories, and feelings. Jenova cells exploit Tifa’s memories and fantasies and Cloud is held in the illusion because Tifa believes in the Soldier narrative of Cloud - that he did become a Soldier and a hero - in the “Zack” in him.
IF there is any Zacloud happening, it's what Jenova's cells do based on Cloud's gaps in memory, his desire to impress Tifa, and Tifa's idealization of Cloud as the hero who would come save her. Cloud always wanted to be accepted by Tifa, and since she wanted a hero ever since he left, J cells filled in the gaps for them. Zack was a person who was there at Nibelheim who Cloud wasn't ashamed to come home as - the one who fit the bill and could fulfill the promise at the center of their relationship.
Tifa is the one who sees "Zack" (really just heroic Soldier) in Cloud - or at least that's what Cloud's Jenova-driven mind latches onto (the Soldier part, not necessarily BEING Zack). In other words, it's Tifa's gaze that feeds his delusion that he is an Ex-Soldier. Not Aerith's. There’s a twist for ya.
So does that mean, if Tifa wasn't the first person he talked to when he woke up by the station, or if he didn't see her straight away, would he have assumed the ex-SOLDIER identity in the first place? I'm guessing no
@@magicalgirl4 Interesting question. I don't think it would matter when they saw each other too much. I mean, Tifa is a pretty big fixture in Cloud's life, and the Nibelheim incident was likely the most intense moment of his life. And after that he was basically in a coma for 5 years. I think even if he hadn't seen Tifa straight away, he would have been putting the same pieces together in about the same way. If Jenova cells had a role in it, it would have been to feed off of Tifa's memories and feelings and intensify the illusion.
Oh my god, so glad someone finally pointed that out ! The Nibelheim incident obviously played a big part in Cloud creating his SOLDIER persona, but Tifa’s fuelled it too. I always thought that Aerith was the only one to know Cloud wasn’t really himself, and that Tifa was the one seeing Zack - or more like the ideal hero he represents - in him
You totally get it!
Rin being “childhood friends” - and I use that term loosely, as we clearly know that Cloud and Tifa WERE NOT CLOSE growing up, doesn’t mean they are right for each other. As you pointed out, Tifa is the one that thinks Cloud’s Zack persona is his real personality. It is Aerith who catches on that Cloud isn’t himself. The Jenova cell’s definitely took what the could from Tifa’s memory, and merged it with what Cloud experienced in his own life, to make Cloud become what he became. I’m not blaming Tifa, I’m just stating what happened. Whether intentional or not, Tifa is the one who created the “Illusionary Cloud” and then reinforces it after the fact. Aerith is the one that touches the real Cloud. People might not like it, but it’s the truth 😁
So good to see a knowledgeable ff7 fan here. I thought I was a die hard, but you put me to shame man. I’ve seen people who don’t know what they’re talking about claim that Cloud thinks he’s Zack, that’s why he likes Aerith. Absolutely ridiculous theory. 7:46 in this video is the look someone gives when they are head over heels in love with someone. Aerith likes to tease him when flirting, but it’s interesting to see that when Cloud offers something real back to her, such as when Cloud says “of course I am” when she asks him if he’s worried about her, Aerith simply smiles and drops the teasing act. It’s what she wants and when she gets it, she struggles to hide just how smitten she is!
Yes! In moments when Cloud just shares something with her, you can see how touched she is by those moments and how much she grows to love him because of those times. In that scene, Cloud just matter-of-factly talks about his past and even starts with "didn't I tell you?" When Cloud has his guard up, she enjoys teasing him. But everytime Cloud drops his guard, I can just see Aerith's heart racing. lol
its almost as if she does that thing where people get lost when looking at someone and daydream for a split moment and she caught herself however subtle it was
@@PollenAinne I love that "I didn't tell you?" Question cloud asks. Like he feels so close to her, it surprises him that she doesn't know these details, or that he didn't share them before. His answer also 100% confirms to Aerith that he was lying when he said he knew how to get to sector 7, lol.
Cloud is not Zack, I Wonder why some people keep arguing about that... Plus, Zack knew Reno and rude whereas cloud doesn't. Zack knew Aerith is an Ancient, Cloud doesn't at the beginning. Zack knew about the old church in the sector 5, but Cloud doesn't, still asking Aerith '' what is this place''. Cloud only throught he was a 1st class because his Friend was one.
Good additional points. I forgot about the Turks. If he had Zack's memories, he would have known them. As well as Aerith being an ancient as Cissnei did inform him about that. Thank you. I was looking forward for more info like this in the comments.
@@PollenAinne you're welcome :) I love your analyse, it's just sooo.... Right ! Thak you !
After twenty-odd years getting back into FF7, it is mindnumbing to learn videos are needed to explain fundamental parts of Cloud's character building. Anyhow, the reason for that might be how the story was told back in the OG. The audience is forced, after they're near the end, to reimagine the true story. Tough fate for most of us, I suppose, but also very fascinating and in the end, what made FF7 that great.
When Cloud enters Midgar, he just had survived a very traumatic event, probably still wasn't conscious enough to even get what was going on at all, and there he met Tifa. A person who is connected to even more traumatic events in his life and to his desire to become a SOLDIER. Of course, he assumed he made it, after all, why else wear a uniform, a bastard sword like a SOLDIER? Even though Tifa gets there is something wrong with Cloud, she doesn't do anything to dismantle the charade contrary she plays along. He is the only person alive who knew her, grew up with her. She clings on that desperately and wants this person he became.
Cloud isn't trying to imposter Zack but a different vision of himself, one that was SOLDIER first class.
Cloud's weakness isn't that he isn't strong enough but that he felt responsible for everything that went wrong though it was out of his power to prevent these events from happening. There was Tifa's accident when they were children, and everyone blamed Cloud though it was all Tifa's doing. He didn't even try to argue that he wasn't responsible but accepted the blame and thought of himself to be weak, useless. This kind of reaction continued throughout the story. Cloud always looked for his failure rather than to blame somebody else.
The story, characterisation of FF7 is very complex and in several layers, especially Cloud and Aerith that people prefer characters like Tifa or Zack because they appear more straightforward.
Very well said. It’s good to see that there are still some people who actually care about what the game is telling us.
Getting back into FF7 with the remake, I naively came strolling around here and saw all those people saying that Cloud is Zack, that he has his memories or feelings or whatever. I was like « wait, what ? Where the hell does that come from ? 😐 »
Honestly, it’b be laughable if the number of people who seem to believe that wasn’t so ridiculously high. They don’t even realize that, by saying that, they’re demeaning Cloud’s character and even the game’s whole story. As if FF7 was that simplistic...
@@rin2579 Absolutely, even for me who is not a veteran FF7 fan, I was so confused by this misconception. Just suggesting that completely ruins Cloud's story! Zack played a part, but it's not all about him when it comes to Cloud and Aerith! Zack fans all say Zack made Aerith who she is and that Cloud is Zack.
No appreciation for the story at all and invalidating the two main characters as a whole.
I didn't know about this HUGE misconception, FFVII is my favourite game/story so I drifted away from toxic communities (yes, for 23 years) to avoid...well...toxicity. BUT this is really ridiculous guys, you must drink mako or something to have this flaw in the plot, and not question it too.
I realized that people are pretty much like Cloud before Meedel but they don't know it, I just beg you to follow my steps to get what I mean:
- 1) Let's forget CLOTI-CLERITH-ZERITH BS for a moment (devs never asked you to do that in first place)
- 2) Learn to read carefully, unless your world is based on lies and misconceptions, like pretty much all Media want you to live in.
- 3) I know, reading - and understanding sucks but we can do it together, up to a certain point...Ok?
First of all, you need to understand how stories are written and narrated: what you will read below is that part of any story where someone explains the biggest plot twist, we can say that he/she breaks the 4th wall reaching the player who didn't get it yet. Usually in any story there will be no more additions to it, unless devs put a second plot twist that makes the first one futile.
Examples of what you're gonna read are:
FFVIII - Laguna meeting Squall for the first time, explaining him (well, kind of) the time compression. That speech is the Bible of the game, after that no one will add anything to the plot, changing it.
FFIX: Garland revealing Zidane's real origins. It's written on stone, nobody can change it. I can't say Zidane may come from Gaya 'cause I knew him there. Or can I? That way I'd create a misconception.
Harry Potter: finding Snape's role, memories and feelings. After that the story is pretty much done, no one can speculate anything about him anymore. It's called realization or resolution of a character.
I hope you get where these examples will lead. Not yet? well, here you go:
CLOUD: I never was in SOLDIER. I made up the stories about what happened to me five years ago, about being in SOLDIER. I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to SOLDIER...... I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack... And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life..... And I continued to play the charade as if it were true."
FYI: ua-cam.com/video/oKMpDBH_DbQ/v-deo.html (because lies are based on references, right?)
4: Understanding the keywords from the above is the most important step to reach out the truth, just like Cloud did in Meedel:
4.1: I HEARD THIS STORY FROM ZACK - like you may have heard lies from someone else and believe its all true. Keep in mind that history is written by the victors, it never reflects the truth, it's up to you to look for it.
4.2: I MADE UP AN ILLUSION OF WHAT I'VE SEEN IN MY LIFE: this is it, here lies the truth, but I'm not going to explain this, read it 1000 of times if necessary. Like TIFA did, she didn't tell him the truth to break the wall, she waited for Cloud to realize/understand. The following point will help you, in case of difficulties.
4.3: TO PLAY THE CHARADE: from your friend Google: "an absurd pretence intended to create a respectable appearance". Basically to wear a mask (PERSONA), to hide your true self, because your true self is too weak and not likeable.
Where the hell is written that CLOUD owns ZACK memories?? in which game, script, book? I tell you where is written: in your memories, or should I say...Cloud's fallacy memories.
Did you ever act like someone else? Like someone you admire? Like someone who reflects your dreams? Even just to emulate a gesture. If you ever did, does it mean you're living someone memories too?
It stems from the fact that Cloud is explained to have read memories so other draw the conclusion, a so far false one, that he read Zack's.
Thank you! His SOLDIER persona was never a complete identity/memory swap with Zack; Zack was just a template for his fantasy, and since Tifa knew of him too he was the ideal template for the Nibelheim memories. There’s also the fact that he doesn’t recognise Gongaga or Zack’s parents when the team goes there in the OG. Not to mention, their personalities are nothing alike - Zack is outgoing, idealistic and womanising while Cloud is withdrawn, self-critical and socially awkward. His curt behaviour most likely came from Sephiroth, since he was Cloud’s idol and his other source of inspiration regarding SOLDIER.
What you mentioned about him not losing any bonds after clarifying his true identity/memories... Aerith is no exception; he comments that he remembers Aerith a lot when the team reminisce about her in Cosmo Canyon (in the OG), he mentions Aerith and her memories just before the final confrontation and he verbalises his desire to meet her in the Lifestream at the end of the game. Aerith clearly still has a major impact on him in the years following her death, as ACC is basically about him seeking her forgiveness so that he can overcome his debilitating PTSD, guilt and depression resulting from her demise.
And most importantly, if Cloud supposedly fell in love with Aerith because of Zack he’d be shown remembering Zerith moments. If he had Zack’s memories that would mean he had already “fallen in love” with her before he even met her. But we clearly see their relationship develop from scratch, with the pair creating their own memories with almost no reference or resemblance to Zerith at all. In any case, the devs stated that Zerith was a puppy love, and with his flirtatious nature there’s no telling whether Zack would’ve committed to Aerith, or ran off with Cissnei or another lady, had he survived. Even if he did come back for her, Aerith had already moved on from him during his lengthy absence.
A lot of people seem to forget the fact that Nibelhiem happened 5 years before the start of the game...so for 5 years Aerith thought Zack was either dead or left her for another woman. Not exactly the fairy tale romance Zerith's make it out to be.
When I first played original ffvii, I felt that cloud had a lot of shame of not being in soldier, and that contributed to why he couldn't actually tell the truth. I get there's jenova and mako poisoning at work too, but it fits so well with his character to have that shame be a big part of his reluctance. Cool video overall, Team Aerith forever
Yes shame is a huge part of why he didn't remember why he was not in SOLDIER. The vid only explains how he creates his illusion and not why he had to in the first place. He had a lot of trauma and with mako poisoning his memories shattered... there were a lot of causes of this shattering.
@@PollenAinne He has become one of my favorite characters really. I hate when people call him one dimensional and can only see him as a stereotypical "cool guy" same with Aerith, she's not just a healing mage!
@@porcolegio Cloud is my all time favorite game character. Fell in love with him when I was a kid. I can stay up all day exploring his dimensions. lol
@@PollenAinne He's my all time favorite too. I used to think Aerith was my favorite (who I still love right after Cloud) but watching your videos made me realize that I actually understand Cloud's character more than Aerith's. While I love Aerith's encouragement, perceptiveness, and tenacity, Cloud's strength in pushing through everything in FF7 despite his severe isolation and shattered mental state along with his strong sense of responsibility to others, even though he often hides it, really speaks volumes to his character and makes him a true hero in my book.
@@xfairfaeriex I love what you just said. I am just happy more people seem to understand him more in Remake.
People who think that Cloud has Zack's emotions/memories literally did not play the OG at all. Thank you for being so knowledgeable!
yup that's true most of them only play the prequel game, Crisis Core. Which is the nest of cloti and zerith
Poor Cloud....no words but I feel empathetic towards him.
He felt shameful because he wasn't successful in his goal being a SOLDIER then gone through hell for 5 years, lost a role model and so on. He didn't absorb Zack's memories but assumed his role being a SOLDIER to mask himself. I don't blame him for that.
Aerith is being perceptive about his questionable personality but she was empathetic towards him because of their similar struggles. And all throughout their bond, she's still patient and gentle with him despite being the dickhead (but he slowly came out of that mask) that he is and accepted him for what he is. That's when their unconditional love budding happened. So pure!
💐💗💐💗💐
I remember how defeated I was before when somebody said to my face that Cloud only had Zack's memories, so he can't possibly love Aerith "genuinely" lol, but that didn't stop me to search for the truth, and it doesn't make any sense, like if he had Zack's memories all this time, shouldn't he know who Aerith is from the start the moment they met in that LOVELESS area? Cloud shouldn't have gotten character development of falling in love with Aerith or melting his frosty exterior then. 😂 I don't mind what they ship, but I dislike how they twist the truth just to fit their own delusional narrative or lose their morals over just a ship, goodness.
Yea,square made it obvious that the whole thing was a issue with the translation,but some people just simply don't want to believe it. I feel like this ties back to the reason why clerith seems so popular in asia(especially japan)and maybe europe but i'm not necessarily sure,yet is extremly looked down apon and hated in western contries:shitty translation.
Kinda unrelated to this vid but your channel is like a safe haven for a clerith shipper like me. No toxic fanwars, just people appreciating these characters and dynamics. Btw I'm only 3 weeks old into this fandom and ngl I'm a little surprised with how some cloti fans attack every little aerith appreciations 😔
Welcome, our fandom is also active on fb and twitter.
And please make sure to play the OG if you can. You will enjoy the Remake even more!
So really Tifa and Cloud wasnt even that close
Yeah, they really weren't. Often people will say they found out their "true" feelings during the Lifestream event as proof they love each other but really its the literal truth about the actual nature of their relationship as children, that they were not very close at all.
@@Rosalith
Tbh its all more disturbing when cloud has the mind of a 16 year old
Tifa even bullied Cloud FYi
@@leahjanulgue7200 according to the Cloti its love
Nope, they never were and it seems a lot of people seem to think otherwise. For some reason they think that Cloud and Tifa were some sort of childhood sweethearts that were destined to be together. Except they weren't friends, only neighbors. Tifa had a little clique with several other kids but Cloud was never allowed to join. Cloud would get into fights and try to get Tifa to notice him but it didn't work. In a last ditch effort he invited her out to the well to tell her that he was leaving to join Shinra and the rest is history. They don't see each other for years. Tifa might have thought about Cloud after he left, but the misconception still remains. They weren't friends and were little more than strangers. People seemed to have forgotten the Lifestream sequence in the original game. Its a shame really what has happened to this fandom ever since the release of Crisis Core.
Ive never been so early clicking on a clerith video but im so hooked after watching ur first two parts
Thank you. Sorry that this isn't really a clerith one. But this needs to be addressed before I can continue.
Pollen Ainne plssss continue onnnn.. im a fan of ur videos 😭
@Rex Wong Don't worry there will be more clerith
Thank you so much for making this video. I'm sick of seeing people come into Clerith videos claiming that Cloud is Zack just to try to disprove that Cloud loves Aerith. You can tell those fans never bothered to play the original FF7 they only played CC and the remake. They're usually the first to say Cloud is Zack, that's why he has feelings for Aerith...they're also the loudest. I don't know if they're doing it on purpose or they truly don't know Cloud's back story. Sephiroth does not care about Zack. We all know Sephiroth is obsessed with Cloud, not Zack. In the remake, Sephiroth even taunts Cloud about murdering his mother in cold blood. That's another example that Cloud is Cloud and not Zack.
The thing is, like 80% of so called Zack fanboys (or Zeriths) are actually Clotis in disguise, who just try to use his character to get Aerith out of the way for their ship to happen. The remaining 20% are people who only played CC and dont really care about FFVII, missing the point of the original story. CC was a mistake that has to be fixed in the Remake.
@@xZarazWracam Yep, most Zeriths are Clotis who refuse to accept that Aerith loves Cloud more than she ever loved Zack.
I used to ship Zerith along side Clerith when Advent Children first came out bc I finally knew what Zack looked like, but then Crisis Core came out and it made me hate the Zerith pairing. I mean, don't get me wrong Zack and Aerith had cute moments in CC, but what annoyed me was the fact that they took Cloud and Aerith moments from the original game and gave them to Zerith, it ruined the couple for me. And I really didn't like how they made everything about Aerith related to Zack. That's why Zerith is my Notp. Aerith herself said in the original they weren't that serious, but in CC they changed it to make Aerith all about Zack. They just keep having these characters contradict themselves and it's annoying.
@@xXMoonGoddessxX I agree. I don't hate on Zack. He was an interesting albeit minor character in the OG. But SE ruined him with CC. Ruined all the main characters actually. Making Zack steal Cloud and Aerith's moments, all the retconing, making Zack the reason for everything, even Tifa's bar name. That was ridiculous. I will never take CC seriously, it was a mess written 10 years later to milk FFVII while SE was in financial trouble. Tabata almost ruined the whole FFVII with this crappy game.
@@xZarazWracam...I don't hate Zack either. The Zack fanbase though, is another story. I hate how they trash Cloud(FFVII's main hero) as weak/nothing more than a wannabe and Aerith as being a whore who couldn't remain loyal. WTF, dude, she doesn't owe Zack anything, especially when they were never in an official relationship to begin with. What the two shared didn't even get that far. Why would she "remain loyal" to someone who never even told her how serious he was about her, someone who has been out of her life for YEARS. The accusation that Aerith is somehow cheating on Zack is funny as heck. Again, they were never in an official relationship so cheating isn't possible. With her last letter in Crisis Core, she even insinuated that she was moving on from her feelings. Aerith was a free woman under no obligations to anyone when she met Cloud. She can love whomever she wants.
Comparing this to FFVIII, the Rinoa/Squall fans are lucky Seifer is such an @ss that nobody cared about Rinoa moving on from him to fall in love with Squall. If Seifer had been created to be a likable hero in his own right(like how Zack's story was retconned to be), I'm sure some people would be making similar accusations toward poor Rinoa.
Finally someone gets. I cant even comment how many times I had to explain this to people. Like watch cutscene's from crisis core and you'll see cloud is nothing like zack AT ALL! I actually funny how when zack told cloud to be his living legacy, cloud basically became that although cloud took a more literal approach, but nonetheless cloud and aeriths relationship is so natural and has a good balance. They care so much for each other and pick each other. Zack was more of a the high school cool jock that aerith did fall in love with. Idk I love my boy zack, but I see something so much more in cloud and aerith
Let's be real here guys, Zack is modeled after Cloud from a game design perspective.
From a lore perspective, Zack is his best friend and mentor in a sense.
Two completely separate characters with contrasting personality types.
Cloud is OG.
I played this game when I was a kid. I'm a faithful fan of this story. And I don't understand why people believe Cloud is Zack or that Cloud has Zack memories. The original game never says it. The only thing that joined them besides the short friendship they had in Crisis Core was the Jenova cells and the mako Hojo injected them. I think that the confusion is because the translation was really bad: Sepiroth's clones (copies) in reality weren't clones, they only shared the same Sepiroth's jenova cell levels. Besides, it is important to add: all these clones and Sepiroth itself are being controlled by Jenova, the cells. So it is expected someway the Jenova cells to affect Cloud's mind. To understand Cloud or Zack or Sepiroth it is important to know about the real villian of this game: HOJO. You are doing a great job with these videos. Keep it!
I think the main reason for the misconception is because it wouldn't fit into people's Cloti/Zerith narrative that Aerith likes the real Cloud (she can only like Zack) and that the real Cloud shows moments of reciprocating in the OG (he only thinks he likes Aerith because he thinks he's Zack) so the "Cloud is Zack" theory is an easy way to dismiss anything meaningful between Aerith and Cloud. Cloud is my favorite Final Fantasy character and it's really sad to me how much this reduces Cloud's character and his character arc just because the gamer has a preference for other characters.
Aerith and Cloud have suffered a lot 😩😭😭 that's why they deserve to be together and happy in the end 💏
But they won’t be. Unless you are very selfish, they can’t be.
@@moonmoon2479 They already have a happy ending cause Cloud and Aerith will be reunited in the future.
actually, they have a happy ending because once Cloud let go of his guilt, he found his promised Land, and then found Aerith again when he finally realized that she's been there with him all along. FFVII's theme is 'life', and Advent Children expands on that theme with the idea that Aerith's consciousness lives on in Cloud. They are eventually able to interact, even reach for each other's hands. Cloud isn't alone. Not only his entire family, but Aerith is still there for him as well ^^
@@divinearia1601 well said
President Shinra said: “Once a solldier, always a soldier, though, alas, not for long. accelerated cellular degradation being the most common cause death by far”. Elmyra also mention the trade between a normal life and power. Cloud will die young and join Aerith too. it seems like Aerith death wasnt the only price they have to pay to fulfill their journey.
I wanted to add this commentary to this video because I see a lot of people that somehow still think that Clerith is based on memories of Zack in Cloud's case and Aerith see Zack in Cloud and that idea is so far off from the truth that it is not even in the same universe. So let me explain. This is going to be long so I hope you guys like reading.
In order to really break this down we need to dive into the story of Zack in Crisis Core. Everyone see this loving relationship with Aerith and Zack. Keep in mind that the events of CC take place over the span of about 7 years before the events of FF7 OG. Also, in the events of FF7 OG Aerith is about 22 years old and Cloud is 21. Zack is about 1 to 2 years older than Aerith which means when the events of CC begin, Zack is about 16 or 17, and Aerith is only 15. This would be like a sophomore in HS dating a senior.
They are both very young.
One of the things that you have to look at with Aerith across all the FF7 titles is that she feels alone deep down because of her being a Cetra. She never shares with anyone her ancestry and this makes her feel disconnected to some degree with people and alone. In CC she never tells Zack about her Ancient ancestry. In fact, Zack only finds out because the Turks tell him. Aerith loves Zack because when he is their, he makes her feel safe. Zack protects her, hints why when he suggests that she go to the Plate and sell her flowers she says only if he comes with her.
Zack cares for Aerith, but there is something that he loves more than her even if he denies it. Zack wants to be a SOLDIER. Zack wants the adventure and the notoriety, and fame that Sephiroth has. It is this ambition that takes him from her. In the game CC, Zack is gone on missions a lot. Even when Aerith tries to contact him, Zack often has to put her off and says that he will call her back but never does. Aerith tries to hold out and even writes to him, nearly 100 letters and Zack never responds to them. Zack then gets injured in the events at Nibelheim and he and Cloud are imprisoned for scientific experiments. By the time Zack escapes with Cloud, and he receives his last letter from Aerith, 4 years have gone by. Aerith states in her last letter that she hope it finds him but that she will not write him again. Aerith wanted someone that would be her hero and never leave her and always be there to spend time with her. Remember she tells Zack when she had a list of 23 wishes, but she narrowed them down to 1. That Zack would spend more time with her. This means that in truth Zack's career as a Soldier is more important to him and it takes him from her. Unfortunately by the time he realizes this a total of 5 years have gone by and he ends up getting killed.
In order to understand the love between Aerith and Cloud, you have to understand the real Cloud Strife. Cloud is not a career Soldier like Zack was. Cloud only sought to join Soldier because all his life he wanted to be accepted. More to the point he wanted to be accepted by Tifa. Cloud was never able to be apart of Tifa's group when they were young. When the other boys chickened out and would not go with Tifa up Mt Nibelheim, Cloud followed her and tried to save her. He thought this would make him strong in her eyes and he would be her hero. It is this desire that is really the only true link between Cloud and Tifa. Cloud further feels even more like a failure because he was blamed for Tifa's accident. This is what made him determined to join Soldier so he could come back to his home town a hero and be accepted.
Cont...
However, he never achieves this either and instead only makes it into Shinra's military, which in Clouds mind is a failure and therefore he is too ashamed to even show his face when he returns to Nibelheim. When Zack dies and Cloud assumes identity as a Soldier, he doesn't go back to being one. Instead he chooses to be a mercenary. This too is partly due to him not really having much memory of his life after his childhood and because this is what Zack talked to him about. More than anything Cloud wants to belong and doesn't think this is ever going to happen. Couple that with his fragmented memory, and he stays retreated inside.
This is the Cloud that Aerith taps into. Cloud wants to be needed and loved and he feels that he has never had this, so he pretends to not need it by cloaking it in this Mercenary tough guy I don't care attitude. A Cloak that Aerith easily sees through. Either because of her Cetra intuition, or because she is some how connected to her future spirit self. (I'll discuss that later)
Aerith sees beneath the rough exterior a person that longs for companionship. To need someone and to be needed by someone. Something Aerith can relate to because this is what she desires. She is able to peel away Cloud's layers and reach the boy hero that he is. One that is kind and full of love and wants to be someone's hero in everything. And make no mistake when I say hero I don't just mean the hero that runs into danger to save his love. But rather the hero who also is there whenever they are needed.
For example the way that Cloud steps outside of himself to be attentive to Aerith's needs; The high fives, the flowers, the listening to Aerith. Being willing to be plucky sometimes even when he doesn't really want to. Aerith shows him that he can be vulnerable with her and still be accepted. Something he never could be with Tifa. And in Cloud Aerith finds something that she never had with Zack. A man that is devoted to her in every way, even when it means putting his rough and tough mercenary exterior aside. Aerith makes Cloud feel like he belongs with her and she feels like she belongs with him. This is made clear when she brings him to park outside sector 7. She needed to be there for him, but he needed to be there for her which is why neither wanted to leave each other in the park; even at the expense of Cloud journeying back to sector 6 to take Aerith home. He didn't just offer it because he thought she needed him to, but because he needed to be near her.
Aerith's feelings are further explained in the book "The Maiden who travels the Planet" Aerith freely accepts her fate and sacrifices herself to save the planet. However something interesting happens. Aerith never passes in to the lifestream and joins the planet. Instead her conscious spirit remains intact and she is even able to manifest a spiritual body of herself. Unlike all the others who have died including the Cetra, their consciousness's have joined the spirit of the planet in the lifestream. but Aerith does not. She somehow wills herself to hang on to her indiviual consciousness, and she does this all because she loves Cloud.
In an Excerpt from the book (The Maiden who travels the Planet)
"Aerith was in even greater pain when she thought about Cloud.
She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn’t get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to."
The reason I mention this is because I believe that Aerith the Remake maybe a reincarnation of her future self who died and is a conscious spirit within the lifestream and she has found a way to come back and change fate. It may be that this Aerith is the reason the Whipsers have shown up. This may also be the reason that she tries to tell Cloud not to fall in love with her. Aerith came back to change fate but with the arrival of the whispers her fate is still unknown.
In another excerpt from the book
"She accepted the death that she had felt long ago as the sword pierced through her. She looked at peace.
But a cry came through to her.
It wasn't the sound of her cry. If it was then she would have felt the blood gushing up through her throat and the fury that forced its way out from the depths of her soul - It was the sound of Cloud's heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith's death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth.
She was surprised at the great sorrow he had for her. She was a little happy that he thought so much of her but she also felt the pain that was many times greater. There was nothing she could do about Cloud's suffering and the pain ached in her heart.
The pain continued even though she was in the Lifestream"
I believe it is this that compels her to tell Cloud he can't fall in love with her. Aerith could feel even in the lifestream Cloud's heart break at her death, and with the whispers her fate is still uncertain. Aerith doesn't want to break his heart and yet she wants to be near him so badly that when Cloud insists that he is coming for her, she is actually happy. She has found the man that will never leave her side.
Clerith is their own beautiful, pure and magnetic love story that I believe transcends through space and time; something we will find out more in part 2. Cloud and Aerith are soulmates and they complete each other. The fact that Cloud used an idea presented by Zack to create a persona of himself to fill in the gaps in his memory; or that Aerith had a "still in it's infancy stage" relationship with Zack as a teenage girl is irrelevant. The love that Cloud & Aerith have for each other have nothing to do with Zack.
I mean no disrespect to Cloti fans, and you apparently can play the Remake to Ship who you want. It just seems to me that if you follow the story that is evidently laid out in the game, Clerith have a destiny together and I for one am just dying to see it. I hope this time Clerith get their happy ending.
I know this was long but hopefully all you ff7 fans can appreciate it. thanks and God Bless
@@jasonbradley7516 nice thoughts. I too believe that Aerith might be someone with the consciousness of the previous Aerith and that Cloud retains some of his consciousness as well. But since the story is not yet done, the video sticks to what is already introduced.
@@PollenAinne oh no your video was perfect I wrote out this extra dialogue because it seems like in spite of your video there are people that still think somehow the story really isn’t about cloud an aerith your video to me explains it perfectly but I’m still seeing out there other people keep pushing at that idea this Zack and Aerith idea I don’t really get it but I thought maybe this might add a little bit more details and a little of my own thoughts but no your videos are great I love them
@@jasonbradley7516 Thanks a lot! I am excited for when part 2 comes out and we really have the concrete details of Cloud and Aerith's consciousness.
@@PollenAinne When are you going to be releasing PART IV: Love Beyond the Surface of a Game I can't wait to see that:-)
I mean Zack mentioned Aerith briefly when thinking about where to stay in Midgar, but he never gave her name or described her to Cloud (referring to the scene in which Zack and Cloud were escaping to Midgar in a truck and got interrupted). Cloud only found out from Aerith that they met, and at this point he started to fall for Aerith anyway. I really don’t get why antis use those arguments, as if Zack’s memories entered Cloud’s brain or that Aerith likes Cloud only for him being SOLDIER like Zack. Seriously, it doesn’t make sense with the story.
Two words:bad.translation.
Great video! Am I the only one who thinks it would have been more i interesting if SE didn't create Zack and instead kept the originally planned love triangle between Cloud/Aerith/Sephiroth?
I love aerith x cloud but zack is great ngl. I just hate the argument that "aerith belongs to zack so clerith isn't a thing", because 1: aerith doesn't belong to anyone and 2: zack would probably ship them too lmao
@@mondaysman5253I agree
This was perfect. Watched all the videos. I've always loved the cloud and Aerith dynamic and felt like it was the less popular pairing. I personally don't see any attraction between Tifa and Cloud. I wrote an entire essay about how Cloud had not taken Zach's identity. He's nothing like Zach. Thanks for the videos!
Could u pls explain to me why Aerith said what she said to Cloud in his dreams bc the "It's not real part" is quite confusing to me.. in Japanese originally she said "it's useless" could u pls help me make sense of this...?
@@sophiette4001 the latest ultimania+ already explain this. She is warning cloud and so as herself that they shouldn't fall in love to each other because she knows her fate. She didn't want Cloud to be hurt and sad, it's to protect Cloud.
@@Ren-kk6iq yes I got it for some time now thank u.. it's so sad that she wants to protect him by saying that...
If someone said this video is a lie or complete bs you can tell they didnt use their brain properly or only went to kindergarten and not finish high school. Other than that great job in clearing things up for those confused or against this cute relationship
Nice one
I really like the relationship between both of them, it's like they are unlocking each other's deepest secret, their insecurities. I hope one day we get to see the moment where they fully open up to each other.
Any idea what aerith meant when she said she wants to give up? I think she's referring to her fate.
Yes but they are reunited in the future.
In yhe part two of this videos (this is part three, the links are in the description) it's explained
Just wanna point out something most people don't remember or don't even know...It was actually one of Zack's dying wish for Cloud to be with Aerith! In fact, at the end of Crisis Core's cutscene in the Japanese version, Zack's last words to Cloud when Cloud was walking away from his body were "If you meet Aerith, I'm counting on you". Maybe that's just my interpretation but they've always had a special meaning for me knowing what happened next ❤️
"I'm counting on you to not break the bro code" jokes aside, Zack ships these two.
Wow, never knew this. This makes it even more clear that Aerith and CLoud were meant for eachother.
Thank you for putting factual information to clarify things!! I can now rest my resolve.
This deserves many more views
Don't have anything to add except say it louder for the people in the back!
I think it’s the most stupid thing when people say it’s zack’s feelings that cloud has for aerith and not his own. LIKE COME ON PPL, CLOUD IS A MAN WHO RARELY TALKS ABOUT HIS EMOTIONS, SO ENIX IS SHOWING YOU PEOPLE HOW MUCH ZACK’S DEATH TRAUMATIZED HIM. GEEZ...
Pollen Ainne you always made my day not just an ordinary day but a beautiful special day. Thank you so much sis. You are the best clerith ever!!
And for the record, I've been a Clerith for 20 years but you exceeded my Clerith knowledge.
You are really the best.
the remake is my first time watching the final fantasy series because it came out of my recommendations and when i saw all he characters' interactions i actually saw that cloud is more talkative when hes with aerith like he can be himself but when hes with tifa and her group, he didnt talk much not unless spoken to.
Another great, meritoric analysis based on solid proofs. Keep them coming! Hopefully this whole "Cloud is Zack" nonsense will be finally put to rest in next part of the Remake.
This misconception really gets me because of how much I keep seeing it used. I'm glad you created this video and appreciate all the effort you put into your creations.
I tend to avoid discussions in any fandom because there is so much toxicity. However, I feel your platform is a safe space.
I've been watching a lot of videos and I just don't understand those who insult and bash others. I haven't been able to find many reasonable Cloti fans, but I also understand there are some unreasonable Clerith fans. But lately I've been noticing a lot of negativity towards Aerith and the Clerith pairing. The Cloud is Zack line has now become tiresome, but I'm also tired of these fans calling Aerith the cliched anime girl. I've been watching anime since my age was a single digit and I'm in my 30s now and I can't agree that she's a cookie cutter character. Maybe it's the type of anime I watched, but since I play the Japanese version, I actually think Tifa (especially in Remake) resembles a certain type found in anime. Also, I think some of Tifa's traits that I admired in the OG were removed. In OG she jumped off the train like a Boss but in Remake she was scared and Cloud had to take the initiative. I felt like it took away from her strong character. Also, that scene made me feel like they were forcing a Cloti moment, but that could just be my interpretation.
Back to my original concerns, I hope the fandom can ease up on the toxic atmosphere but 🤷
(Also, I'm worried with the appearance of Zack, there will be more cause for those belligerent fans to go on about Zerith/Cloti)
You are not alone. A lot of clerith fans just ship in silence because of how scary the fandom has become. I guess you can say it's the price of popularity. FF7 simply gathered fans outside of the normal realms of jrpg gamers. Which is not bad per say, we would love to include others too. However, the price of that is a more suffocating atmosphere where some people simply cannot accept that others have their own opinions and have to create some massive propaganda just to ensure their opinion is the loudest and those that do not agree with them are bullied into submission. If I didn't love Cloud and Aerith's relationship so much I would have made myself scarce too.
@@PollenAinne Mm. I feel like the fandom culture has just become scary in general. I've seen a lot of people receiving hate for their feelings about Remake. There are fans who didn't want this alternative sort of sequel game and just wanted a remake. I completely understand the sentiments, my first time playing through I felt the same way, but my feelings have changed now. However, I've been seeing many fans insulting and just completely belittling these people because they don't love what's happened in Remake. They start calling them haters, purists, etc, instead of understanding why they have those feelings. I just don't understand why everyone's so ready to attack. In another fandom I saw two groups of fans going at each other for two separate television programs that were of the same genre and they wanted to state theirs was better through bullying and intimidation. I wish we could all just get along.
But to end on a positive, I really do love all of your videos and can't wait to see any and all of your future projects!
Oh and back to Aerith for one moment, am I the only one who struggles to do anything not in favour of her? I keep trying to do different options when I play through it again, but I just can't seem to bring myself to help Tifa first in the sewers, etc 😂 I had to watch the other resolution scenes on UA-cam because I'm making choices instinctively before I can even think about it. Each time I replay I tell myself I'll change it up and then I fail the moment she's on screen 😂
@@yasuminagunne9623 sameeeee! I can't be mean to her and I've never seen any gold saucer alternative dates. Lol
There are a few moments where suddenly Tifa becomes a damsel and I just felt annoyed.
A big example is at the pillar when Rude "attacks" her when she's at the controls. She's lying on the floor, comes to and then reaches out to Cloud and lies in his arms for moment.
I didn't find it believable because 1. Rude's crush on her prevented him from hurting her in Gongaga (he only attacks her reluctantly if she's the only one in your party still standing, 2. She's standing up like perfectly fine and running about like two seconds later. 3. Shouldn't she I dunno let Cloud fight Rude or something to save the people of sector 7 vs. having a damsel moment?
Obviously I'm a Clerith fan and maybe others see it differently. But that scene really bothered me.
@@flowergirlff7505 Glad I'm not the only one who just can't break the cycle of always being good to Aerith 😂 I also have not seen the alternative date scenes in Gold Saucer... and I am ok with that, although, I can't lie, I'd love to see Barret and Yuffie's scenes for the comic relief 😂 I should probably watch those on here.
Unfortunately, I felt like there was a point in each chapter you're doing something with Tifa that she has a moment of damsel syndrome. Each one just kept digging at me. It's ok if it happens once or twice, but it was often where Cloud was pushing or pulling her out of the way, etc. I felt like they really did wrong by Tifa by taking from her strength of character. She's always been reserved and such, but in OG she certainly was more of a badarse.
When she told Cloud "You've seen how much ass I can kick" I had to pause the game and stare at the screen for a moment. She has a few scenes where she does something bad arse, but for the most part she's standing there questioning everything that is happening, which distracts her from what's going, which then leads to the damsel moments. (There's a reason Jessie said she'd rather have someone like Cloud watching her back. That really came across during the game.)So, at that point I felt like we were being told she was a badarse rather than being shown... 🤷 but that's how it came across to me.
I understand where you're coming from regarding the top of the pillar. The moment they get up there and they're trying to reach Barret, Cloud gets over there first and then Tifa runs over and she does a little "cling" to Cloud. Then, we have the moment you're talking about, and then when it's about to explode she's on the floor staring down and Cloud has to pull her away. (Even on her way up the plate she got a little pull from Cloud again). The plate falling is a terrible thing, but again we look back to the OG and Tifa's over to Barret before Cloud is... I get these are emotional situations, but I felt like they were really dragging Tifa out with some of these things (The sewer and the graveyard for example, the back and forth about whether Shinra would blow up the plate was killing me...). She was not such a wishy-washy character in the OG.
I know I've seen in comments that Cloud touches Tifa a lot through out the game and that this means something... well... most of the time it's because he's saving her 😶 even Leslie got a starring role of pushing her out of the way in the later part of the game.
I really hope that they step up their game in part 2 and let Tifa grow and be her own hero. (Her saving Cloud at the end sort of fell flat for me because 1. it took both Tifa and Aerith to pull Cloud up in the sewer, 2. She was in such an awkward position she really wouldn't have been able to do much, 3. it really didn't suspend my disbelief... but again that's just me).
I love you and ur vid!
If ppl still denial about this then they just dont want to admit it lmao mostly ppl who keep pestering about the whole cloud is zack, or zack is in him etc is just troll or nasty shipper trying to shove their delusional script to satisfy/justified their ship at this point.
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Its also interesting, how i see mostly ppl who love and care for cloud as character(know him well) is have soft spot for aerith, because they do know how aerith affecting him in a good way ...... meanwhile ppl who hating aerith mostly dgaf about cloud as character and dont know him that well and have this zack is cloud mindset.....mostly they also dont understand about the story well too....
I am also a Cloud fan more than a clerith. I also love Aerith because of Cloud. lol
No not denial. It's called delusional fanservice Cloti :D
Maybe they’re trying to follow Cloud’s step to become the master of their own illusion :0
Hooray! Finally done watching 4 of your clerith videos. It was nuts and very good explanatory videos.
Well you could say, I'm a big newcomer to FF7 and this video really brought everything up so I could understand better. First video related to FF7 I watched is the remake version of honeybee inn. Ever since that it keeps bother me to know more. Who's Aerith Gainsborough? Who's that yellow hair guy that popular everywhere but I never know his name? I became obsessed afterwards, especially for Aerith. Read her Wiki's, make me sure she's my definite best girl. And, she also said to be the main character, not over the top Tifa that usually, supposed to be the main heroine and the mc couple. This fact itself intrigued me. Why the hell the main heroine dies then? But the reason behind it make me just appreciate it more.
So TL; DR I followed as many playthrough and cutscene that I can watch. But at one point I have a doubt about clerith shipping, plus cloti fans keep throwing "Zack card" like crazy. "Don't worry, aerith have Zack in the lifestream!" which is sound strange for me and not fitting. Your videos reassure me that Aerith feeling for cloud is indeed real and not as ambiguous as I may thought. And even bigger than her love for Zack. So big thanks to you for that!!!!
Thank you for watching my videos. There are really a lot of misconceptions thrown around about Aerith and Cloud's feelings for each other because the EN fanbase is composed majorly of clotis and zeriths. The clerith fanbase is pretty small in the west. In JP though, clerith is stronger than any ship and it always confused me why there is such a huge difference between the JP and EN fandoms. I made these vids as a support to the clerith EN community to try and shine a light as to why this ship has captured the hearts of a lot of people in JP. I am glad I was able to help you appreciate this pairing.
@@PollenAinne how could I didn't appreciate their relationship? 😄 Their relationship feels very organic and felt like what real life romance would be. Anyway, are you planned to continue this series when the next remake part comes out?
@@incogniftoar3943 Yes. Next vid will be Thursday. Oh the next remake part will be like years. but of course. when that time comes too.
@@PollenAinne so anyway, my theory why western audience ship zerith and cloti more :
1. Because they praise Zack as main hero and Tifa as main heroine more. (No doubt tho, they have nearly perfect characterization. But for me, they're too good to be true, or following trope too much. Complicated characters is more interesting for me. )
2. Because inaccurate translations over the lore.
3. Because Crisis Core & Advent Children movie is what makes western people attached/interested/first acknowledged FF7.
@@incogniftoar3943 I'm asian living in western culture. It's always been Clerith for me. I never understood this cloti thing. It's so toxic. That said, there's a lot of toxic relationships portrayed in media here that idiots call love. Like abuse is passion. It's so dumb.
Been loving all your videos as I'm turning into a hardcore Clerith shipper these past couple weeks. The OG FF7 I liked, but didn't love, and I definitely didn't have the attachment to Aerith. But man this game changes all that and I've fallen hard.
I don't have a lot of knowledge of the canon, but in the remake Aerith constantly says "the future is not set in stone" or some variant. To me that implies she may not necessarily die and OG Canon doesn't necessarily have to apply.
I love all the little things you note in your videos that let me know how deep the Clerith pairing goes for the storytellers.
I love coming in here 3 years later post Rebirth, and being SO glad to find a video essay about this because of just how prevelant the "Cloud is actually Zack/Cloud absorbed Zack's memories so that's why he loves Aerith" arguments have been on just about every single video I've clicked on talking about Aerith or Cloud to any extent. I'm new to the fandom too (just started with OG FFVII about 2-3 weeks ago and I've already wound up finishing it, Remake, and Crisis Core and am now onto Rebirth) and it's been quite the ride seeing just how much hate and misconceptions are out there about these two and the overall plot of the story. I still find it so baffling how anyone could possibly misinterpret the scenes in the OG when it's so clearly spelled out for them as to what happened by Cloud himself.
The storytelling in this series is absolutely incredible!! And the relationship between Cloud and Aerith one of the most beautiful love stories I've ever seen crafted in media. They really do compliment each other extremely well while also being wholely uplifting and encouraging of the other. It's sad to see people so commonly write off their complexity and strength as characters because of a ship they want. Not only is it insulting to their character arcs and their development over the course of the games, but it's also an insult to the overall story plot. Thank you for uploading this and giving me a good dose of "thank god I'm not the only one who thinks that argument is absurd" lmao
Everybody knows that cloud isn’t Zack cloud is clearly Johnny all this time cloud absorbed Johnny’s memories thus he believes himself to be Johnny
I cannot disprove this theory unfortunately. Nothing in the OG or in any of the compilations says otherwise.
Clerith
Cissnack
Johnnifa
???
@@jeffreymleczko7797 There is no JohnnyxTifa because according to Johnny's profile, at Costal Del Sol, he told Tifa that he is engage with someone else.
@@leahjanulgue7200 Fair enough. I was kind of kidding Johnny is a goober. But I did not know that so thanks!
@Leah Janulgue i heard from some ppl that johnny used to date tifa? Is this true?
Jenova cells absorbing memories. Maybe this is why Cloud receives future visions of Aerith? Because Aerith knows her future
I’m gonna need a part 4 please. 🥰
wow.. thank you so much @Pollen Ainne for this critical info you've shared.. hope you can provide us more info about this.. to be honest..I didn't even play any single final fantasy games..I didnt know every characters history especially Cloud, Aerith, Zack, Tifa and the others..until i watched so many videos about this and read some comments regarding this topic..and i was surprised that i can now finally understand everything.. and thanks to you.. well, not all.. but at least.. now im following the story very well.. and you can add me for being one of those wanting cloud to be with aerith together.. well..,no offense to those who wants cloud to be with tifa.. its just my own opinion..I like Cloud when he's with Aerith..and I like Aerith whenever she's with Cloud.. and im strongly believe that Cloud..is Cloud.. i've seen before the story about them, Cloud and Zack, in Crisis core.. well, again..not the whole story..just a clip..especially..the ending.. which Zack died.. oooh...that scene made me cry too..
so as what i say, i strongly believe that cloud does not posses zack's memory as like the others says...if you notice in advent children.. Cloud is being so emotional..i mean.. he always blame himself for the death of Aerith..which means.. it is his own feeling right there.. i cannot say or explain everything more because clearly, you've already shown all the evidence that Cloud is not Zack.. and i'm so convinced.. and i just want to thank you for that.. even though i didnt play the game yet..OG or Remake.. you've given me enough knowldege to learn from those characters.. and i'm loving them even more...
Cloud: Me? Not Gongaga!
This is funny until you remember just how many people think that cloud is unironically gongaga it's not even funny.
Thank you Pollen Ainne, this video really clear up the fuzz about Cloud personality which i always find confusing ( well, i don't play Crisis Core )
Good. This game ruined ff7's story and characters so just don't play it.
Man, these last 3 videos showed great clarity. Pretty cool insights!
Thank you for making a detailed video explaining what I already knew and try to tell others.
I don't get why people get do confused on this.
Thank you!
When Zach diesdd, Cloud was just so sad that he go PTSD, that is why he had flash and fake memories through Zack's story
Some points to clear :
-aerith don't love (or like?) cloud because of Zack. Cloud and Zack are so different, they have some common values and qualities. But they express themselves differently.
-cloud don't love (or like) aerith because of Zack. He never met aerith before and he don't have Zack's memories/feelings. Otherwise he would've absorb every Zack's traits, which it's false.
-Aerith loves both Zack AND Cloud. It wasn't at the same time and it's a different love. Funny how people compare and some even say Zack was a just a "crush". We can deeply love multiple people through our life. So annoying when shippers diminish Zack and Aerith just to secure Cloud/Aerith, that's childish. She loved Zack and now she loves Cloud no need to debate 1000 years.
-stop using Zack as a tool for your ship (to some cloti shippers)
I linked this video twice in a reply chain on youtube and someone told me that they aren’t gonna argue plot with a delusional Clerith... uhhh WHAT?!
lol typical response of people who can't argue rationally. don't bother with those.
@@PollenAinne hmm,as much as i hate to disagree,i feel like the clerith intro takes away 99% of the video's credibility so you should probably reupload it but not as part of the clerith series. The main issue that people have with accepting this is that people think cleriths make these things up,so having a clerith intro just makes them even more stubborn.
@@arwinado lol it's fine. If they are closeminded like that I am NOT going to pretend I am not clerith just so they will listen. To be honest those people wont listen anyway.
Well, seriously:What did you expect? This Video is really just the opinion of the creator. While of course many people agree on it, many will also disagree. However, it really isnt suited to "prove" anything. None of the shipper Videos are (including Cloti videos).
@@byronic0967 Tbh there are no fan made vids that can prove anything. Shipper vid or not. Let's all be honest here, we are all just fans, we are not the creator. Just because a person isn't a shipper does not mean they can have a more logical view. It makes me laugh that people suddenly think they are more intelligent simply because they don't ship. Everyone is affected by their own life biases. What we do is simply lay out our perspective of what we see as the logical truth and it is up to people to accept it or not.
Thanks for the correction =]
Thanks for informing me about it.
So there was no part 4 after that.... I guess my time with anime and manga taught me well enough to cope with the cliffhangers i guess. This really good, atleast it made me feel better about the in depth analysis of the characters and their pov. Great content, watched it multiple times for self satisfaction and validation of kind. Seems like lifes at peace ☮️ knowing the depth and possible complexity these characters and the video showed.
Sorry about that... part 4 was delayed and I felt that it would already be too late as the devs content are already everywhere. Hopefully when Rebirth comes up we will have tons of new content for more parts.
@@PollenAinne well glad to hear more content will be their soon. I would say watching your videos is like agreeing to your agreement and policies it's your POV, and it kind of fulfills the blank spaces the way which one would like ( ofcourse as the title of the game suggest final fantasy). So, your indepth analysis, the reasoning, and comments or even the psychology behind the things you say because of a scene, that stuffs feels good to hear it's like an extra dlc that concludes the story filling missing links. I just mean, we probably fell in love with the style and atmosphere the video creates it's kinda nostalgic, postive and idk feels really good haha just want to let you know you made some great videos 👍. Devs be devs you be you, we would love to watch the video explanations regardless. Thank you!
honey.. I love this clerith analysis and been waiting for part 4. hope you come back soon!!
Re-watching this now since Tifa fans are claiming Cloud is being controlled by Jenova to fall in love with Aerith, which needless to say is big if true.
Jokes aside, I wonder what's going to happen during the Kalm flashback because in the first two hours of Remake it's already revealed Cloud remembers killing Sephiroth which he did as a trooper. Which is huge because he didn't remember that in the OG until the Lifestream and in the Rebirth trailer he clearly remembers Zack by the time they reach Nibelheim. That's literally just steps away from completely restoring Cloud's memories.
This freaking cope of a myth is one that I really dislike and do not really understand (I kinda do but also not really). This notion that Cloud is just Blonde Zack is ridiculous because even though Cloud claimed some of Zack’s accomplishments they still remain polar opposites.
Cloud did take on a part of Zack’s “persona” that was built by his memories of who Zack was.
per·so·na
1: the aspect of someone's character that is presented to or perceived by others.
2: a role or character adopted by an author or an actor.
Cloud never had Zack’s memories, but just some of his mannerisms that were created in him by the jenova cells.
Love your videos and your perspective!
Agree. Cloud does not have fake memories nor does he have Zack's memories.
Zack was his friend, a SOLDIER and someone that saved his life and his dying wish was for Cloud to be his living legacy.
Cloud was a fighter for Shinra, one aspiring to be like Sephiroth at a young age. He told his friends that he was a SOLDIER - that's why he was embarrassed to greet Tifa in Nibelheim.
When Zack died, Cloud decided to uphold Zack's dying wishes and he brandished his sword. Cloud received S level Jenova genes as SOLDIERs do and It's the Jenova genes and ultimately Sephiroth's influence, that blocks out certain memories of Zack and Cloud not actually being a SOLDIER. Sephiroth is manipulating him. That and perhaps PTSD.
Cloud isn't a SOLDIER, he's stronger.
Your videos are great BTW, I'm a huge fan of Cloud x Aerith and look forward to part 2 of FF7R
Side-note: are you sure "complicit" is the right word here?
It's from this article I found that states "Being complimentary and the partner in crime.
In the beginning of your relationship, you had made your partner laugh, you had found things that you have in common, and you felt a bond that facilitated seduction and the ‘creation’ of your relationship. You were both attracted to one another thanks to these similarities. But is having similarities and things in common enough for creating complicity between couples?
Sharing the same ideas doesn’t necessarily mean that there is complicity in your relationship. It’s not just about harmony between you and your significant other… Complicity goes much, much deeper; it’s a question of providing your partner with what they’re missing!"
Source: www.withmyexagain.com/blog/complicity-between-couples/
@@PollenAinne This is awesome, thanks for the explanation 🙏
@@PollenAinne I hope FF7R has a better ending for CxA
@@shinzoux5912 yeah even if cloud has zack’s memories why he didn’t recognize her? And having someone’s memories doesn’t mean having the same feelings. An easy example : if I had all my mom’s memories does that mean I’ll will fell in love with my dad?? Clearly not. In ff7’s case Cloud and Aerith feelings was built up by themselves during their adventures not the past, something new and fresh. Ff7R is based on the notion of « destiny », in the end they choose how they wanna continue their life. « The future isn’t set in stone », wouldn’t be paradoxal to say that but let Cloud be a prisoner of someone else’s memories ?
2:32 why didn't she say that to Cloud? I still can't get over the fact that if Tifa didn't act like a dumbass throughout the whole game Cloud's "two-faced-charade" and all the suffering it brought to him could've been avoided. As far as the whole Zack thing goes, Cloud thought he was in soldier because he associated the events of Nibelheim with Zack, that's literally it, nothing else about this man is part of what Zack was, he only gained a small part of his memories and erased 90% of his own past life. He damn sure doesn't have Zack's feelings or personality, that's a big fallacy a lot of people still don't comprehend about the FF7's story.
Well Tifa is kinda indecisive, but she's also unsure of what is going on... I mean, telling Cloud the truth might break him if he is not ready to hear it... i dunno... but I do hope she gets more agency in telling him the truth this time around instead of being forced to help him because he's become so shattered already. I really do want to see a stronger Tifa.
@@PollenAinne Or Tifa will be the way she was in the OG and wait until Cloud is completely broken before stepping up. Hojo already let the cat out of the bag in his lab and none of the characters even addressed it. Then again, things might change and Aerith is the one to help Cloud piece his mind together. Guess we will see.
@@neoexodeath I don't think they really heard him clearly. I do think Aerith will help piece Cloud's mind but I think Tifa still has to help cuz she's the only one who was there during Cloud's childhood. And if even Aerith learns about it, she wont have first hand knowledge. And I really, really do want Tifa to be a true friend for Cloud. She really sucks as a rival but when she's a true friend, she does touch my heart too. My most fave part of Tifa is when she saved Cloud at Shinra HQ and told him he needed to step up if he wanted to act the hero. Although Cloud was being Aerith's hero instead of hers which she so desperately wanted, she showed him support. She really shined there for me. I want to see more moments like those. I want her to help Cloud so he can save Aerith. Maybe, if Tifa gets a vision of how depressed Cloud was after Aerith's death, this will make her give up her romantic tendencies and really look out for him as the close friend she never was when they were young. This is my wish for Tifa.
@@PollenAinne I think Tifa definitely has arole to play in helping Cloud piece together his scattered memories as you mentioned, but Aerith was already working her way to Cloud's true self before her demise. Slowly, she started to dissolve that wall he learned to put up to hide his insecurities. I believe there is more than one way to heal a person's mind. Aerith does that by healing his soul. We'll see how it plays out, but if certain events change in Remake, then it is likely we may not see Cloud and Tifa fall into the Lifestream like they did in OG.
I am so glad you made this. All cloud’s messed up memories had to do with Nibelheim which is understandable since cloud was physically present there. He was just an observer for all the events and of Zack (also talking to Zack and hearing his stories and concern about meeting Tifa and about Sephiroth and whatnot). So the Jenova cells mixed that up. Cloud thinks he was a soldier but didn’t know how he got to be one. If he had all of Zack’s memories, he would be able to know how Soldier training was like, the people he met, his mentor, and Aerith! But he doesn’t know anything about that and his only messed up timeline was the Nibelheim incident. It really bugs me that people argue that he has feelings for Aerith because he thinks he’s Zack. Cloud is cloud and he has his own awkward introverted personality and his feelings are his own! All his feelings for Aerith and for everyone else doesn’t change and doesn’t become fake after the Lifestream.
I recently tried to say the exact same thing but this Cloti fan had to respond and claimed the jenova cells instilled memories and emotions of Zack and claimed that once Tifa helped Cloud fix his memories that he knew he didn’t love Aerith romantically which personally, I think is much more of an opinion but she said it was canon. 🙄 and said it was proved through Advent Children. I’m wondering if we even played the same game or watched the same movie
A lot of people believe in this fallacy because it makes them sleep better at night. lol. Sometimes it is hard to face hard truths and take it head on. Like, us cleriths should never diminish Tifa's importance to Cloud and Cloud's story to know who Cloud really loves. I have nothing against people supporting cloti, but they should love their pairing based on facts in the game instead of creating an illusion just to make the pairing work. In the end, it just destroys the real essence of the story. And FF7 is a lot more than just a romance and which girl Cloud likes.
Pollen Ainne agreed! Love Tifa too but their argument doesn’t make sense. I think Cloud fell in love with both women at different times. I also believe Cloud always cared for Tifa but grew to love (not a crush/infatuation) her over time during their adventures and after Aerith’s death... But Cloud will always hold Aerith dear and love her because they have a spiritual soulmate connection 💕 He can absolutely love or have loved more than 1 woman. The game is more complex and beautiful than who loves who and a lot about identity and friendship too
I love this video great job.
Thank you!
@@PollenAinne You're welcome.
Of course im Cloud, The Lonely Cloud!
Zack is my bodyguard and a soldier, pretty cool huh?
-Drunk Lonely Cloud
Hmm I just had an argument with someone about this it's not that he has Zacks memories but he is trying to be Zack to keep his friend alive, this is why he can't acknowledge Zacks existence because then he would remember how weak and helpless he was when he was killed.
Story-wise in the OG, it was never about Zack, but Cloud coping. The thing is, Cloud's mind was breaking down and he was becomming like the other Sephiroth clones who could no longer retain their sense of self. But based on OG-lore (the Ultimanias), the reason why one would succumb to such is mental weakness. People like Zack who are confident in themselves and do not think too deeply of things are easily able to get through mako poisoning without loosing their minds.
Hence to protect his mind, Cloud envisioned himself to be his ideal self. When we learn about his childhood, we can see that he clearly already has this talent of creating his own world where he was special instead of an outcast. He used Zack as his basis for parts of this ideal self and later when he meets Tifa in the train station he also used the parts of her memory that "idealized" him to complete this persona. You see, Tifa had not seen him for a long time and the vision Tifa had of Cloud is the boy who said he would be a hero like Sephiroth. Hence, in her mind, Cloud was this cool SOLDIER who was her hero.
What I am trying to say is, thanks to Tifa, Cloud's persona is actually not Zack but an idealized version of himself, from his own mind and Tifa's, and using some of Zack's gestures and manners to complete the package. And the only time he really completely stole Zack's identity is during the Nibelheim event, in which he was also there to witness what happened. I believe he used this event to strengthen his belief that he was a SOLDIER and a hero.
Wow girl,you're going all out with these videos and I LOVE IT😁.
If anything I would call you a love analyst/psychologist
lol! I'm flattered. But I am far from that. Just love this couple so bad that I have been devoting too much of my time on them. lol
Clerith!!!
Could you make a Clerith AMV
"When the Party's Over"? oh yeah, you're almost near 1k subs, good job Pollen!
Of course Cloud is not Zack, he can't pretend being his very first friend... The first one who took care of him. He just wanted to be what Zack was, a SOLDIER. He admired him because of that and he wanted to be like that, not like Zack. He barely remember the journey with zack bc of Mako effects. It's really sad how the story of Crisis Core goes like that way, but at the end we got how Cloud lost his last value: his first best friend, and after that, he didn't had nothing left to lose... UNTIL WE MET AERITH of course.
and then he lost her too :( 💔💔💔
@@stavcy ended more broken but learned how to value everything else because nothing is lost.
PART 3!!!
If the story of Remake will be the reference, Cloud is not Zack in the eyes of Aerith. If the other arcs will be the basis, Zack is really existing and loved Aerith. But the possibility that Zack is still alive is high, for he's around already, outside the Midgar, and in the other ending of the Remake, Zack went to the church to meet again Aerith, and it became the cliffhanger of Zack's existence. There's also a high chance that Zack will really appear, and will meet Cloud and Aerith (yeah, be ready shippers) to be in between, perhaps. For the record, Aerith didn't mention to Cloud that Zack is already dead, but rather in a sense that he's not around for a few years.
Now, the existence of Zack will be the real deal at the part 2, whether he will be like in the AC or CC arc or completely different here at the Remake. Zack is Cloud's big influence on character build-up, so probably, if they will meet again, Cloud could have seen most of the answers of his identity, since he's still not familiar on his own until he left Midgar. That may wrap up the possibility of Zack's involvement between Cloud and Aerith, or even Tifa. 🙂
Even after rebirth people still are into this nonsense, specialy to invalidate cloud and aerith's feelings in the "dream date. I think you should do a new series of this vídeos considering rebirth. There's a Lot more to cover and the cloti people are getting really toxic
Can't wait for the next video *0* 😍
I love Cloud and Aerith together and never really wanted him with Tifa because I feel she can do better, don't really care that much about Cloud. But what I love more than any of it and how I feel that it gets left out is how much Tifa and Aerith care for each other. They became best friends and it's just sad that people keep putting them against each other like they are fighting over some boy when they not. I always loved Tifa and Aerith's friendship more than everyone making them fighting each other over Cloud. But if I had it my way. Aerith would be with Cloud. Tifa would be with Barret or Rude cause he hot, lol, or maybe even reno. I was going to say Biggs because he also hot the best-looking one, to be honest xD between him or Rude for me but never wanted Tifa to be with Cloud. Then I was like not Biggs because he got Jessie lol.
Yeah, I really hate pitting the girls against each other too. But SE decided on an LTD unfortunately. Although when it comes to Aerith, she doesn't really fight with Tifa. She just goes for Cloud and never talk about Tifa in any of her scenes except when she was asking about who Tifa was and when she was pushing Cloud to rescue Tifa. I really do think they are good friends to each other. Unfortunately Tifa does get jealous of Aerith which I wish they would stop with that cuz it's just ruining her character.
@@PollenAinne Yeah I saw people talking about the Tifa being Jealous so I went back to play it. I was like oh the ghost scene when Aerith said mine. I was like I guess I just took it as she really didn't want to go in there because she was scared. And then the Cloud and Tifa scene I feel any girl that has known a boy that long like Tifa has known Cloud would be kinda mad that a guy you may or you think you have feelings for gives you a flower he had gotten from another girl and didn't tell you about it so some of Tifa's reasons for me was good reason to be that way. I'm sure I missed some scenes because I'm playing on hard and I am like omg it's really hard lol.
@@heartlock9584 Oh her jealousy is not unreasonable at all. But this is what makes people pit one girl over the other, because jealousy means competition. sigh~
@@heartlock9584 Not sure if you know it but the Eng translations really ruin their characters thus their dynamics too. For instance, in that ghost scene Aerith's "mine" was added in. Tifa aren't that jealous and Cloud is more understanding in the original JP dialogues. Western seems to like pushing rivalry for fanservice ugh.
@@syoro8954 It's the same with the one in the sewers. The translation was so awful. The truth was that Tifa was weirded out a bit that Cloud didnt give a direct answer and is curious why Aerith is helping out... but not really jealous. It went like T:"How did you get to know her?" C:"She helped me, I helped her, she helps me again." T:"Are you dodging the question? I wonder why she's helping." Cloud was indeed dodging the question though. Because the answer was that he accepted to be her bodyguard for a date. There's no way he's gonna tell Tifa that. lol
Hi, i am looking for p4, can you tell me where it is plz!
I am so sorry, it still doesnt exist
No, i was so excited for the last part! :(
Have planned to do it??
Can you explain to me what can Jenova cells effect to Cloud? I'm a bit confused about its effects
Make cloud lost his mind, Totally forgot all things except zack memories ( only the soldier thingy )
@@rhyzent3058 I mean it's Zack memories or Cloud's memories about Zack? because I have not found anywhere said that Jenova cells can fuse 2 different people's memories or some kind of that. If you have can you give me the link? Thank you
The Jenova cells are what create SOLDIER. It makes them stronger than regular troopers. However, the experiment Cloud went through is not for creating SOLDIER but for creating Sephiroth clones, the black robed guys you see in the game. Sephiroth/Jenova (or Jenovaroth as most people might call them) is able to manifest and take form using their bodies. Zack and Cloud were deemed failures. Meaning they didn't become Sephiroth clones. However, Cloud was affected by the mako poisoning (and he actually was not a total failure as well which is why Sephiroth was able to control him later).
@@PollenAinne Oh so that is how it worked. I was confused about its effect to 2 different people's memories like in your video you said J cells read Tifa memories and then Cloud fill it to his shattered memories. Is it Tifa memories or Cloud's memories about Tifa?
@@tomu118 The J cells were able to read her memories of what Cloud was, and Cloud used it as an idea to create his illusion. Basically it was all just Cloud creating an illusion of what he is, using what he knew of Zack as well as what he has read in Tifa's mind. I guess he created it to protect his mind from completely shattering. But he got lost in his own illusion and really believed it to be real.
I agree that Cloud's false memories are the product of a merging of his fragmented memories, Tifa's memories, his view of an ideal SOLDIER (with Zack as a basis), and Zack's stories.
However, there are a couple of Nibelheim scenes where the reality depicted in Crisis Core is incredibly close to Cloud's depiction in Kalm, and Cloud/Tifa aren't present for these events, so it begs the question of whether or not this is sufficient. These would be the scene inside of the reactor where Sephiroth ponders whether he was created like the "monsters" and the scenes of Sephiroth researching in the basement of Shinra Manor (including Sephiroth's 6th DMW scene.) I see 2 plausible explanations:
1. While the player is shown the "reality" in Kalm, Cloud himself is not giving such exact details to the party at all; he actually doesn't have the precise knowledge that we see in the flashback and is simply describing a false memory based on Zack's explanation (with hazier details.)
2. After Sephiroth fell into the Lifestream and died the 1st time, Sephiroth's memories began to erode, though he was able to keep a "memory core" to hold onto; this is much like what happens to his memories in On the Way to a Smile's Case of Lifestream Black. During the train station scene, Jenova accesses Sephiroth's "memory core" and utilizes Sephiroth's (NOT Zack's) memories of these scenes as a way to strengthen the illusion. (Alternatively, if his memories didn't erode (e.g. due to Jenova's head being present), then Sephiroth's memories in general and not just a core could be accessed.)
I like the 2nd explanation more, but I feel like the devs would probably go with the 1st explanation. Anyway, solid video.
Edit: Come to think of it, right after the plate falls, Cloud has a Shinra Manor basement flashback. Maybe he really does get that memory from Sephiroth.
I mean, SE has a bad habit of changing the Nibelheim Incident every single time they depict it. CC was already disloyal to the original by retconning Genesis into being part of the mix, so the continuity issues are kinda just bad writing on the part of SE/the team who created CC. (And......lbr, while CC was undoubtedly one of the better written parts of the Compilation, it still didn't have the best writing in the world, and a good chunk of it was straight up a train wreck (listen, I love the ideas behind Genesis, at least in principle, but the execution was terrible for the most part).)
May I ask? What's the theme playing at 7:26?
That is Midnight Rendezvous, one of the most romantic pieces created for FF7.
@@PollenAinne thank you so muchhhh. I've heard it before and it indeed gives you this sweet and romantic vibe♡.
what is the name of the song at the time it plays 4:23? she is so beautiful
Who is?
@@meowmeow3778 the music is called descendants of the ancients
@@lorraynemonteiropaskeviciu5109 Lol, I was thinking that maybe you're referring to Tifa since that's most of the answers I get.
zerith does not take away from clerith ❕ just because zerith happened doesn’t make clerith impossible like people suggest. 😒
This Zacloud fallacy gets all the more interesting when you realize that Cloud and co changed the timeline at the end of Remake--Zack is still alive. Will it be Zack who joins Avalanche because he has beef with Shinra? Will Cloud end up being taken care by Tifa or will the Jenova cells in his body still screw with him thus creating an interesting conflict dynamic between him and Zack? And who is going to fall through the church roof this time? And even if it is Zack who falls through, will Aerith still end up falling for Cloud?
Man, part 2 of the Remake is gonna be nuts.
Will they make Advent children remake???please answer me
I know the Zacloud thing is farfetched, I just enjoy trolling hardliners with it.
I'm gonna argue that the lack of Jenova flashes is because that would've killed the emotion in the moment where Zack passes on the sword, but that's hardly enough to argue against the rest of the video.
This is why I don't think FF7 is well-written though: it forces arguments about basic shit like "what happens?"
What I don't get then is why Zack keeps talking to Cloud, and why it stops happening once he drops the act. Also what's with the scene where all three of them talk in the white void in AC?
Zack never talked to Cloud in OG. It was young Cloud talking to himself all the time. I even suspect that in RE the Sephiroth image talking to Cloud is still himself. It's like evidence of his different personalities. But all Cloud. Never Zack or Sephiroth. And in AC, it's in Cloud's consciousness I suppose. Nomura did say Aerith resides there. And Aerith had been able to visit Cloud in his mind before.
In OTWTAS: Lifestream White, Aerith had been trying to connect to Cloud. But I guess Cloud had been trying to avoid her because of guilt and pain. Like how he avoided the Forgotten City as it brings him too much grief.
In AC, you dont see Zack without Aerith, because only Aerith is able to summon people from the lifestream to give them form, otherwise they will just be scattered consciousness.
In ACC they completely shoehorn Zack in the Sephiroth fight and all I can say it that he was just a memory, because Zack doesnt have the power to communicate from the lifestream. Or it was added by someone who didnt know of the lore and they just did it for fanservice for CC.
But Cloud's mental break down comes from being unable to distinguish between his life and Zach's life. In his mind he was the 1st Class SOLDIER that confronted Sephiroth instead of Zach. He completely forgot that he was actually the guard. That's him adopting Zach's memories and living his life as a Cloud Zach hybrid. It also comes from the experiments done to him and Zach.
That is actually entirely wrong. Cloud's mental breakdown was never about Zack. It was about Sephiroth making him believe he was nothing but a clone. The Zack factor was used as proof by Sephiroth that his memories were not his own and that he was nothing but an empty clone who was infused by memories of someone else. Sephiroth also made him believe that all the memories he has of his childhood were infused from Tifa. Altho Sephiroth is party telling the truth, his truth is laden with lies as we find out in the lifestream that Cloud is Cloud after all. He was always Cloud and that in fact he was in NIbelheim at the time but as a Trooper and not a SOLDIER.
What made Cloud break down was the thought that he was just some lab clone who was created for the purpose of the REUNION. This made him think that his entire life was a lie. He did not know at that time that all the clones were actually real people who were experimented on.
Hence in reality, Cloud was always Cloud. He was Cloud whose mind was weak and he was unable to accept his failures and thus created a new ideal persona for himself basing on his ideal SOLDIER who was Zack. So he changed some of the events of history in his mind. But his mind still functioned like Cloud at all times. This is the reason he was awkward and aloof just like child Cloud in Nibelheim, unlike Zack who was friendly and goofy.
We also see hints of him being the real Cloud with his memories of Claudia. It could not have been extracted from Tifa since Tifa was not present in that conversation. Altho he altered his memories a bit as if he was a SOLDIER and not a Trooper at the time but Claudia was his real mother and not Zack's.
In OG, Cloud clearly stated how he based his pretenses on Zack whom he considered his ideal and that because of Jenova cells, he started to believe in his own pretenses. So no, he did not absorb any of Zack's memories, he simply used all knowledge he had of Zack to create a new version of Cloud and the Jenovah cells allowed him to believe it himself.
One of Cloud's quotes is "俺は 俺の現実を生きる", or "I live my reality" which is Cloud's determination to face the truth of his failures and hence he became a true hero who saved the planet.
@@PollenAinne you say that it was never about Zach but then lost Zach as a key component to his mental breakdown. I'll admit I didn't explain it well in my post but it is still true that Cloud's whole tough guy, 1st Class SOLDIER, mercenary persona comes from Zach. Also his whole recollection of those events is Zach's memories. The information he knew about Zach and Sephiroth isn't possible for him to know. So while Sephiroth messed with his mind and Cloud lost faith due in part to Tifa being unsure Cloud still picked up plenty of Zach that he inadvertantly converted into his new self.
@@dannysheain7968 That is not true. Zack wasn't a tough guy mercenary. Zack was a well meaning SOLDIER who dreamed of being a hero. He was friendly and kind to everyone around him. The tough guy persona was always Cloud. He acted like that as a kid too which is why he was isolated because Tifa and the rest thought he wanted to be left alone. Of course deep inside he too was kind and nice, but he didn't get the tough guy act through Zack.
Ofc it is true that he did get the SOLDIER identity from Zack. And believing he was SOLDIER gained the confidence he never had during his younger years.
Also his whole recollection some he saw himself and some is what Zack told him. Cloud specifically said it in the game. That he what he would perceive as his ideal self and the things he heard from Zack to create his ideal persona. But because of the Jenovah cells in him, he started to believe his own pretenses. It is in the game. Him becoming a mercenary also came from him hearing it from Zack.
Actually I'm glad that you are not one of the game makers in SE. You will ruin the feed for the fan base and shipping wars. SE will never let either ship to have their perfect moments, they always keep it ambiguous enough to feed up the fan base =))
This part 1 of the Remake, we just go through 20% of the game, and Cloud is just as mature as a 16yrs old boy (Kitase and Nojima confirmed that), while you put your huge insight of the whole FF7 universe in this video series plus your own Clerith inner fire, a little overkill I think. For me, I found that the Original and even the AC movie tended to lean toward Aerith more, but in the Remake, they really balanced out both ships really well.
In the remake:
- Cloud sounded more refreshing with Aerith, more romantic and felt more comfortable emotionally with Aerith. He protected Aerith with care and choice. Aerith personality really shined in this Remake.
- Cloud sounded more relaxing with Tifa, he felt a deep connection with her but seemed not to understand why and where that deep connection came from (not just only by the childhood promise). He protected Tifa by instinct rather than care and choice. They shared a lot of physical intimacy although there were not much romantic vibe compared to Aerith.
Let see what the next parts of the Remake will bring us. FF7 never was a romance-focus game and story, it's much bigger, so either ship may get really hard time ahead with many heart broken moments await them.
Actually, what I am doing is just balancing out the fandom. I am shining light to what is great and good about this ship and destroying some misconceptions. If you have been a part of this fandom for 20+ years you will know how oppressive it has been for EN clerith fans. Every talking point is met with misconceptions after misconceptions just to deny the existence of clerith. Although clerith gets strong support in JP, in EN, it is met with hostility and derision. I have loved FF7 for many years and my main focus has always been Cloud and his story. Shipping comes in second. But even then, the moment one mentions Cloud's preference for Aerith, suddenly you have become a pariah, one who has no brains,and even your ideas and thoughts that had nothing to do with shipping are met with derision even when you are quoting things from inside the game itself. The appearance of CC, has oppressed the clerith fandom even more with zerith and tifa fans uniting together and creating fallacies of Cloud just being Zack when he showed a preference for Aerith, just to push their narrative that clerith never happened and does not exist. But as a person who also visits the JP fandom, this treatment in the EN really gets to me. Why are EN people so toxic and unappreciative of clerith? Could it be that people just do not see their interactions? Is it the misconceptions? Was it wrong translations? CC came out in JP too but I have not heard of one talk that Cloud had Zack's feelings in the JP fandom. So why? This is what led me to create this videos.I dont give a damn about what other people ship. I just want to lay out facts about Cloud and Aerith the way people who actually cares about them sees them. Sure you can make an argument for Tifa... but that is not my job.
The promise to tifa... That's is why he appears in zacs's team... and they become friends... And return to his town. To protect tifa. Another thing...how he knows hojo? ... maybe he is a experiment from this crazy doc... And have. Sephiroth Blood... That's why he called "mother" to jenova and earith...
Wait. Let me try to help you fill up some details...
* The promise to tifa... That's is why he appears in zacs's team... and they become friends... And return to his town. To protect tifa. *
>> Is this referring to their time in Nibelheim? It was not Cloud who made the choice to go to Nibelheim. Shinra sent them there to investigate. It just so happened to be Cloud's hometown. Zack and Cloud were both surprised to be in the same mission ( Sephiroth is also in the party). Yes, he protected Tifa while wearing his Shinra infantryman outfit so Tifa won't realize it was him, and attacked Sephiroth after seeing him burn the town and hurt Tifa and Zack.
* how he knows hojo? ... maybe he is a experiment from this crazy doc.. *
>> He probably know him because he also works in Shinra HQ as an infantryman. Probably heard of him there, and also in Zack's stories. He became part of Hojo's experiments after their battle with Sephiroth. Hojo sees both Zack and Cloud as interesting test subjects (injected with Jenova cells and literally poisoned due to high dosage of Mako if i'm right. )
* And have. Sephiroth Blood... *
>> Not sure if he has the same blood. Jenova cells injected in Cloud is probably the one you're looking for.
* That's why he called "mother" to jenova and earith... *
>> Is this referencing to the Remake game, where Cloud was walking to the elevator and passed out after his head hurt and he mentioned "Mother" ?
This maybe due to the Jenova cells in him, or part of the effect of the Mako poisoning, Sephiroth's manipulation, or possibly more of a foreshadowing of the future events. It can also link to the fact that he knows that Sephiroth mentioned that his mother's name was Jenova.. I don't know for sure sorry.
The delusional one lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cloud has Zacks memories, of the entire Nibleheim incident actual cloud is not present when Sephiroth snaps inside the reactor. Actual Cloud isnt there to visit Sephiroth in the basement Zack is. His entire own experiences are forgotten, Clouds entire self up until lifestream recollection is Zacks memory of nibleheim 5 years ago and his soldier skills plus Tifas memory of Cloud as a child who she didnt even know well or that he had a crush on her. So its incorrect to say oud doesnt have Zacks memories when he does. What cloud means telling the Larry is though deep down the little cloud knows it's a lie its hi Ted throughout the game little Cloud questions ZackCloud he chooses to just live the lie, because ZackCloud is little Clouds dream fulfilled.
WRONG! He has his memories of Zack based on the stuff Zack told him and what he knows and what Tifa knows. He didnt miraculously absorb Zack's memories cuz nowhere did that happen. In the OG he clearly said how he formed his illusion of an idealized version of himself.
@@PollenAinne then how does Cloud remember things exactly for what he wasnt around for? Zackcloud is a thing you're wrong here. Cloud is comatose hes not like "hey Cloud heres why Sephiroth went crazy. Cloud litterally thinks it was him because Zacks memories. This is your opinion or take on it not facts at all.
@@mrdarkstar3756 play OG FF7. When Cloud recovers his true memories he said all was his creation based in stuff Zack told him and what he saw in Nibelheim. It isn´t an opinion, it is a fact explained by Cloud in the game.
@@sitopons880 cloud doesnt see inside the reactor till second visit where he stabs Sephiroth he doesnt eren talk to Sephiroth besides Sephiroth asking how it feels to be home. He has Zacks memories I've played the OG countless times He has Zacks memories the proof is in the scene of Kalm flashback. He may not think hes Zack as he litterally doesnt even remember him it doesnt change the fact hes in Zack spot during all the scenes where Cloud is present and not present for.. real Cloud says he created his world shaping it around these memories as you can see Soldier persona oud is nothing like Zack so it's not correct to say "ZackCloud" however its straight up wrong to say Cloud doesnt have his memories when he tells the story perfect from Zacks pov acting like Zack in those scenes as well. Soldier Cloud is formed of 3 people Re oud wanting to be cool and strong to impress Tifa and be her hero, Tifas thoughts of him and Zacks memories. Cloud is a grunt infantry man he fights like a natural using Zacks moves again he has his memories. The misconception is people think he likes Aerith based on him having Zacks emotions S well which is wrong. Cloud is a blank slate Aerith takez lead emotionally till the lifestream scene because he has no recollection of what Tifa means to him just has Tifas memory of him where she considers him a friend falsely of course because they were not, Coool SoldierCloud doesn't reflect on the promise with any emotional weight however real Cloud does in lifestream scene.
@@PollenAinne also the game has no voice e acting but anyone can tell Tifa's comment is a snide sarcastic joke saying "You're messed up Cloud." She has no I'll intent with that she just went through roughly 2 in game hours never leaving his side in Mideel.
What? Tifa doesnt think Cloud was a soldier. Replay the OG, Tifa doesnt remember what happened around getting attacked by Sephiroth, as far as shes concerned shes not really sure how she survived. Tifa questions her own memories after hearing Clouds BS Zack story, she knows it's wrong but doesnt confront him on it because she knows somethings wrong with Cloud. She lies to him to protect him because other than Cloud being Zack in the memory it's an accurate retelling. It's ok to ship a pairing as its player choice but dont twist the story.
I do not twist stories. I merely give facts. Here it is from Ultimania:
Under **Jenova Relation 1: The Jenova Project** (005.1A)
*Jenova's mimic ability*
"Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered,
he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal" (P.13); this was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him."~Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
His meeting Tifa enabled him to create the illusion of his new persona. Tifa did believe he made it into SOLDIER. In her fantasies that is what happened. She also believed they were close friends as children. If you watched part I of my video, there is a conversation with Tifa and young Cloud in the lifestream. There she states that her memories of them as kids were wrong. And that after he made the promise, she kept on searching the newspapers. She was expecting to see his heroic deeds as a SOLDIER. You can make this out that Tifa believed that Cloud would make it. Although, she didn't really know him well, so it was more that she expected him to keep his promise and make it into SOLDIER. She never thought he wouldn't.
I think you need to start doing more research before you start accusing people. It is true that Tifa does question her own memories and that she knew something was wrong. I even reiterated that such was the reason she invited Cloud to Avalanche, in the video, if you watched it. To keep watch on him. Where is the twist that I am making?