Why Wood should NEVER Touch the Ground
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
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There’s something very telling in some of these comments. This was the most awkward use of mouldings I’ve ever seen. Yes, you can do whatever you want with mouldings, but in actual architecture,(which this is based on) there are certain mouldings and profiles that work in specific areas. For example you would never want a repeating moulding for capital, surbase, and plinth. It’s very strange. I’m not calling out the tradesman necessarily(although they should know better. I’m calling out whoever made this decision to put these mouldings up like that. And yes we all have room to grow. I have grown the most from people TELLING ME WHAT TO DO AND NOT TO DO. This just tells me I have a lot more teaching to do. Which is a good thing.
🤣🤣🤣 "....imagine if you went to the doctor (and got a half inch gap), you'd be dead!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This Richard, is why I love your channel!!!
Man this is such a nice video, it's a real change of pace from your recent videos where you show the aspirational, what carpentry could/should be striving for. Here though, this is current day reality. :D
Dude! I invite you to come to South Kentucky and do some remodels with me. I see the most obnoxious cheap nasty barely get by stuff from people who called themselves craftsman.
I love your work! You’re very meticulous! And you explain yourself well. I appreciate your channel.
JP Merlo
The Kentucky Carpenter
I have watched many of your videos, you are a true professional.
That's why I think it's a shame that these people don't use your expertise.
Greetings from the Netherlands
My cousin is an electrician with 15 employees. If he has a customer who doesn't value quality, he turns down the job. I find it amazing that you accept such an order. After all, the basic theme of your channel is quality craftsmanship.
Totally agree. This was a favor type job for a friend. Otherwise I wouldn't touch it for sure.
I figured like a family member or something you don’t go from building entablatures to this 😂
Welcome back!
Richard, timely video. I am getting ready to trim out my slab house where I will be using the concrete floor as the final floor. It will be stained and polished concrete but I am wondering if you have a suggestion for base moldings since they will contact the concrete.
I get it's a "bandaid" fix, but it seems that 95% of that column is perfectly fine. It's only the 2-3" that is at ground level that got affected. If you cut the bottom 3" all around and install PVC trim then that will act like a capillary break between the concrete and real wood up higher. That stuff will never rot, the real wood that's off the ground will never rot so there's no reason to replace the whole column unless the homeowner doesn't like how it looks.
Why even make a column if we’re just going to make it plastic. Why not a steel post.
Because it looks like shit bro
I disagree. I think the whole thing is bad.
hope to see the fix process and final finished trim
I remember on a job in Happy Valley, Oregon I was supposed to repair some small rot damage on posts with trims and siding. It kept getting worse and since it was the 11th hour on a rush job due to sale of the home. We all agreed it was best to strip all 3 columns supporting a deck upstairs and the original 4x4 pressure treated posts were all in good condition and left it like that. Two culprits: bottom of wood trims were not primed and painted and on concrete. At top of each columns were missing flashing to keep water from going inside of the column under the deck surface. It only took 10 years to ruin the columns.
great video as always,.
will you do a review on the festool sys toolbag?
Up in the Midwest, we have builders throwing fiber board trim on exterior homes with vinyl siding and it looks awful within three years. It absorbs water because they don’t treat the edges and it swells up.
This is exactly what most of my 42 year career as a carpenter was based on. Trim work, and wood rot repair. In the beginning (late 70’s) I made mistakes on exterior work like you see here, but that’s because I didn’t know better, and frankly the waterproof materials for building did not exist back then…or were extremely difficult to come by. So I learned. I would only use exterior lumber, I learned to make my own moldings, I found a big shop that was equipped with the right machinery to make large orders out of redwood, cypress, mahogany etc. Any moldings (bases) that touched the concrete I would hold back maybe 1/4” and stuff insect screening under it. I learned how to vent columns from base to top, I would sometimes soak bottom pieces in Cuprinol if I knew they would get wet. Then when PVC moldings came along, and later Boral, I used those. I learned how to use WoodEpox big time learning to allow for wood movement. All these little factors added up to great success.
I would stress to the customers the importance of diverting water and keeping things dry and painted.
I could go back and see exterior work of mine from 10-20 years ago still going strong.
Inside molding - cheap, is all the bix stores carry.
He’s back
Nice Work!..❤
I love learning new things from your channel. The guys who did this shoulda watch your channel too. lol
I kind of wish he gets back to making videos like his older ones where he was doing clients homes, his older videos were more intertaining and interesting.
I do videos on what I can!
The bead panel and corner molding add a special touch
I didn't get notified that this was released!
I put 2 sole plate 2x4s when framing basement walls. You only screw wood and sheet rock to the top sole plate leaving bottom 2x4 to be painted the floor color or covered with pvc base board.
Moisture and minor rare flooding will never touch your sheet rock.
They LOVE to do the same thing with drywall in Florida.
Run it tight to the concrete sub floor. Then the toilet overflows, the creek rises, or you get hurricane water. Like a sponge. Then mold 2' up the whole inside of the wall.
Do you now Accoya and Tricoya? The most perfect wood for stability and outdoor usages.
All those layers and levels of trim…I imagine they were going for a super-duper ultra Colonial look…like straight outta 1776.
The original homeowners probably did Revolutionary War reenactments and held splendid balls in their parlour. The man’s character was Colonel Moseley, and he had trousers made of sturdy wool, and two blousey shirts of linen beneath his waistcoat adorned with large polished bronze buttons that complimented the shiny buckles on his shoes. He loved to escort his Lady Dunmore in the minuet, with her hoopskirt whirling with her fancy petticoat barely concealing her corset.
In fact, you should refer to John as “your man, Lewellin” and both wear powdered wigs while doing demo.
What kind of wood is the outdoor windsor rated windsor made from.
Band aid solutions and cover with paint is what flippers do just to resall. They bring in a hit and run crew and go from house to house.
PVC molding is the solution
It'll be fine. It's not a "bandaid". The post is steel, so there's no structural problem.
I did the same thing pvc molding. Shape it, to identical of the molding.
Okay how long did the original last?
Curious why you would accept a customer/job like this? I imagine new work (by new I don't necessarily mean a new build, but new work in an existing home like an accent wall or something) would be easier and have higher margins?
This looks like a couple of 3' columns stacked on top of each other.
Richard, what would you do differently to fix it properly?
Watch the video to find out.
I like the doubled-up use of the same trim to create a different profile. There's no reason trim should be only pre-approved, standard profiles. It's like painting pictures...you can use the colors any way you want. There's no right or wrong. However, you're absolutely correct about this being a terrible, ridiculous installation and a repair that will eventually fail again.
To use an old uk joiners saying. (In glue and dust we put our trust)
when you do work like that, do you have the homeowner sign a waiver he knows the damage? and you take pictures
DIY Dan did that originally, from the looks of it.
Plastic moulding can be used for skirting outside . JC 19/5/24 .
Years ago there was no pressure treated wood. The solution is to keep the wool 1/4” above the concrete because concrete is always wet, until it turns back into powder. So over time the moisture in the concrete causes the wood to rot if it’s touching. Even pressure treated will eventually rot out
Show us the rest of the repairs.
Why? It’s literally just baseboard. The point of the video is to show the wood touching the ground
Ive got the feeling that we are about to see more than a bandaid.
Frosty roofs? Awesome video. Unfortunately, I learned from experience wood shouldn't touch concrete.
Frustrating to see people avoid doing what’s right! My thought is, can u use the same profile, yet keep it off the ground by at least a quarter of an inch, and then finish it with a waterproof caulk on the concrete to avoid the infiltration of water being wicked upwards? Maybe it will just delay the inevitable, but far better than allowing interior wood to sit on concrete
I would wrap it with hardi and throw some 1x8 hardi smooth with pvc base cap and call it a day. Yeah some people are make believe trim masters lol
The molding they bought must have been inexpensive or someone just didn't want to return to the big box store to buy the proper, respective molding. I would scream at someone if they attempted to do this at my home. The patio looks really nice, too, so why cheapen it (pardon this if it sounds negative) by allowing inappropriate materials to be installed. It's like buying a Range Rover and putting Wal-Mart tires on it. Just saying. My analogy might be a little bit off range, but you get my drift. Glad to see you, Richard. It's been a while, but it just means you're a busy man. Hugs to all from Midland, Texas.
What you're saying is correct BUT if it's the homeowners doing maybe he had extra from a job or free? Looks to be under a covered porch.. they might enjoy the upkeep of real wood. In 1920 (my house was built) there was no azek or Windsor 1
This is all fingerjoint though.
@@FinishCarpentryTV i see your frustration 🤣
I don’t know Richard you’re infamous for using moldings for other purposes they weren’t designed for, I always liked it as a way you expressed your creativity.
Miss Carpenter could’ve been in the same shoes. The builder may have supply him with the materials and we made it look halfway decent really having one profile on site he definitely made as many unique combinations with only using one profile🧐
I guess the difference is this is just repetitive. Doesn’t make sense.
Use restore by Smith and co.epoxy wood harder, used on boats
HaHa!!
I exterior products should be touching the ground whether it's dirt or concrete.
On that note jalapeno solutions would have just bondo'd everything up and called it a day
I would be so embarrassed when guests come over. Nice outdoor area, but as they say, its in the details.
Nah. No can do Mr Customer!
Sometimes, you just have to hold your nose, do the job, get paid, and wash your hands off of it as if it never happened. Though I would have documented that the customer was made fully aware of the probable pitfalls in the future due to Band-Aid methods, so a job I tried to forget doesn't return to bite me in the ass.
if you went to a Dr with structure like that, he would say you have Osteoporosis.
What the ? And that is not even that old it still has a barcode! Crazy.
The next person will probably say the same thing about your work. Probably that’s what the client wanted. Some people walk away some people do what the client ask..
That's why our framing engineers put ABU66Z or 8 and ABA66RZ (well 6,8,10 etc..) because the dang framers try to hide it all the time! I'll never understand why people like to double work ...
If you ever use interior stuff outside (or non treated wood like a regular 1x4), you need to paint on all 6 sides, multiple coats. Then, use pennies or nickels as spacers at the bottom when you build them.
With that being said, don't use interior stuff outside. That bead board has no business being outside.
We use what we’ve got and it’s fine until it’s not. 😂
While every possible shortcut may have been made?
Using one type of trim molding and flipping it around in your miterbacks. To create different profiles is not more difficult and time. Consuming and costly, then sourcing out.
Wider. Profile high end outdoor rated mouldings. Especially ten years ago or so when this was probably done.
So quick to criticize when you could be praising the ingenuity and efficiency as Well as addressing the moisture rot issues.
It looked REALLY BAD.
These jobs stress me out
They were making their own mulch.
These homeowners are probably the type of caucasian that finds mayonnaise to spicy...
I was going to go after you for the retarded joke but I saw the video of you shooting the washing machine and it seems like you’re going through a lot right now.
I have some bad news about restaurants for you. Also, my guess is they went with the lowest bid. Get what you pay for.
An expensive house like that and people want to go cheap. Fix it once and never do again or fix it several times costing more than the right fix once.
We don't know the whole story. But as I said in another comment, I hope the homeowners don't see this video.
Look on the bright side it gives you security. 😀
you're most likely dealing with people that may be living beyond their means.....
Hey Bud! You wer supposed to say, it's like putting lipstick on a pig! 😂
You would be surprised what comes into a doctors office. My wife is a dermatologist so she does surgery. People do come in with holes from previous surgery. They also come in with what are called dog ears. When they don't close properly it's a piece of excess skin that hangs down. She fixes all that while also cutting cancers out.
Ugh!
There's also those stories of things being left behind INSIDE a person after a surgery. Mistakes happen in every profession!
@@Davey768 Thankfully there is a lot less chance of that in derm. :)
Yeah i think they got the moulding for a deal and couldnt/ wouldnt afford the wide moulding.
My truck broke down today.
Richard’s comment section isn’t your diary bud
Pay less, get less
What do you think they used before azak/vinyl ???….wood . Paint was the protection from the elements . Why are you so surprised? I agree wood should never contact the ground . Nor would I use it today .the profiles don’t bother me as much . They used what they had . Even though incorrect.
Yikes
The problem for you, Richard, is that you put your "brand" on the band aid job and then you "own" it. Yes, the homeowner is free to make stupid decisions, but you don't have to participate.
Were it me, I'd walk away from the job. You're just way to talented and valuable to mess with such things.
Ok, then. Why don't trees rot on the bottom??
Guaranteed, the homeowner is about to list the house for sale.
Maybe, but in that case he'd probably get his neighbor's brother, Scooter, to whip something up.
"Putty's your Buddy!"
Youll make more money from the views in this video than the repair.
I get it. As a fellow carpenter you want to do the right thing…But your being a little arrogant to the situation at hand. You should watch your own videos from 5 years, your level of talent is 10 fold from then.
Maybe the carpenter that did that job, did the best with the knowledge he had.
Educate don’t criticize
100%
It’s kinda like the guy who puts a 55” tv in his living room, if it was me it would be a 75” minimum……if it was me……but I’m not the guy who wanted a 55”😊
Lipstick on the 🐖!
People hesitate to pay for good work.
Maybe they're selling the house and just want to do the minimum.
Boy, I hope the homeowners don't see this video.
They should see it. lol
This seems overly critical for a few reasons. We know it's common to stack trim or use it in areas it's not necessarily designed for, so I see no issue there, aside from their poor miters. It also looks fairly old, so in terms of the ROI on the wood itself, it just seems like it ran its course and doesn't owe anyone anything, meaning this just qualifies as routine maintenance. These guys seemed to work with what they had, as the wide variety of PVC profiles we have today really only came around somewhat recently compared to when that work was done. I also remember a video where you advocated against PVC moldings, so it seems a little contradictory to imply that it's the only solution here. In the past when I worked for someone that used mostly wood exterior, we would 'prime' the bottoms with a full length bead of caulking. It created a sort of rubber moisture barrier and as far as I know it's all still holding up. Some of the best carpenters I've ever seen in my life used wood exterior moldings in applications similar to this and I've had to replicate and replace some of their work, but 99% of it has lasted over 30 years(anal customer has the receipts) and the miters are all still perfect. Most of what I had to replace was the column bases they did on a couple porches but the customer never criticized them for that, he recognized the material just ran its course. Some of the custom ballusters needed to be replaced and the guys who did the original work actually did spin up a couple dozen out of PVC on a lathe for when any need replacement in the future. So who knows, maybe the guys who did this work were new at the time, have improved on their work in general, and now use PVC when they can. I won't judge them too heavily.
Honestly I see a lot of people in these comments who don’t see anything wrong with the use of these mouldings… that just tells me we all have a lot to learn. These mouldings and they way they were put in are one of the worst things I’ve ever seen.
@@FinishCarpentryTV We're all learning, but maybe you can too. While it's subpar work, without knowing who installed it, under what guidance, at what point in their career, with potential of being at a homeowners request(or homeowner install), it's in the realm of acceptable. If you see 'a lot' of people agreeing on something, maybe step back and re-evaluate your own position a little bit. It's not even the top 100 worst things I've seen considering it's aesthetic, not a structural safety issue. Aesthetics are subjective. There was a point in my career where I became hyper focused on using the proper terms and trying to be a by the book carpenter, but eventually I realized that I was just becoming a snobby carpenter, correcting people for not knowing this or that. Ultimately, it's carpentry, not breakthrough cancer cure research. I understand your irritation because my professional identity primarily revolves around my carpentry prowess, which I know you can relate to, and it upsets us when we think about someone getting paid to butcher something. I've just decided that unless someone is intentionally malicious or attempts structural work when they shouldn't, I cut them some slack.
"I just work here." Spoken like a Gen Z. Yeah, I've done stuff like that before. Usually budget driven decisions.
This isn't a generational thing. People are paying to do specific work, and sometimes budgets, schedules, or even customer preference do not align with what the professional would typically recommend. This type of thing shows up in every industry where you are dealing with a paying client. Sometimes a "good job" means just giving the customer what they are asking for. (it can be soul crushing though, if that's all your ever able to do)
Pvc moulding.......all the way
You have to agree people are different than you and they may not know what goes and what doesn’t.
Like you said it’s not yours and some homeless do what they think looks good to them . If they hire a professional then you should get what goes.
I think you should not be sarcastic about what the homeowners want done
At that point why even hire anyone. Just move
We all don't eat, sleep and dream about trim work. I appreciate your knowledge and absolutely agree with not using interior materials outside, but you might be the .01% that cares THAT much about trim.
I am pretty sure that every single homeowner paying to fix shoddy trim work cares
Nope@@howardsmith5474
@@howardsmith5474and that’s the same the world over! 🇬🇧
Interior trim and bead bd. Lol wtf
Look on the bright side Richard......if the guy before you had not done this you would not have gotten this job.
95% of people never even notice trim that’s not done correctly
"I don't care what it looks like, just get it done!"
As carpenter if the owner wants to keep the wood I have the solution for that very easy question is to check whit the owner and takes time but will last for very long time because water and wood don’t go very close and you had to use like we in Colombia concret base and varnish the rest water rotted the wood very quick if don’t protect then any way you should know all this if you a professional carpenter I live to you thanks