Comic Book Censorship: History of the Comics Code Authority (CCA) || Comic Misconceptions
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2015
- In the 1940s and 50s, comic books were under attack! There was a movement that believed comics were harmful to children and were the cause of juvenile delinquency in American youth. This crusade was led by Dr. Fredric Wertham, author of Seduction of the Innocent, and it eventually led to the creation of the Comics Code Authority. The CCA was a super strict set of guidelines that comic book publishers had to follow in order to get any of their issues distributed. It also helped shape the face of comics to how we know it today. Let's learn about this incredibly important chapter in the history of comic books and shed some light on the true motivations of Fredric Wertham!
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Every Wednesday, Comic Misconceptions explores the fun trivia, interesting ideas, and mind-blowing theories regarding comic books and the rich history and culture that surrounds them!
Hosted by Scott Niswander (@ScottNiswander)
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SOURCES:
Diagram for Delinquents
sequart.org/movies/3/diagram-f...
1954 Comics Code Authority
www.comicartville.com/comicsco...
1971 CCA Guidelines
www.reocities.com/Athens/8580/...
1989 CCA Guidelines
www.reocities.com/Athens/8580/...
Timeline of the Anti-comics Crusade of the 1940's and 1950's
www.lostsoti.org/TheAntiComics...
Comics Code History: The Seal of Approval
cbldf.org/comics-code-history-...
Seduction of the Innocents and the Attack on Comic Books
www.psu.edu/dept/inart10_110/i...
Dr Fredric Wertham's Crusade against Comic Books
www.wymann.info/comics/025-Wer...
Comic Book Legends Revealed #226
goodcomics.comicbookresources....
The End of the Comics Code
techland.time.com/2011/01/24/r...
The Comics Code Authority - DEFUNCT Since 2009?
www.newsarama.com/6897-the-com...
Mystery Solved: Who Was Running the CCA the Past Year
www.newsarama.com/7084-mystery...
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So basically comicbooks were video games of their day?
+Mihovil Beck more like movies.
+Swift Swalow I was talking about all of the old conservative assholes who say that videogames make children violent, not of how widespread they were.
Mihovil Beck oh... agreed then.
+Mihovil Beck well having some kind of video game in your home is about as common as having a microwave... wait MICROWAVES CAUSE VIOLENCE!
+darkmyro I thought knives, fireworks, ropes and barely guarded car keys are the cause of most cases of violence...
"passion for what the code stood for" I think you mean, passion for reading all those free comics. That lady had a pretty sweet deal there.
Ironmaryable I cannot argue with you there. Haha
Dream job
oh the 50s.. when people freaked out if a comic book had the word "Crime".
Today 8 year olds are watching the "Deadpool" movie lol
LMAO
LMAO
LMAO
LMAO
LMAO
Should Comic books be Censored?
No. Not ever. Not one word. Not one image. Not one idea.
Should Comic books have ratings guides like TV shows, Movies and Video games?
Yes. Like any media, the content is for various age groups ranging from young children to adults and parents should have a ratings system built up on a commonly accepted set of guidelines they can understand and use in their own judgement as to determine if they wish their child to read the material at their current age.
But I also think regular books should get the same ratings system the very same day the Comic books do.
Just like I want to have nutritional and ingredient labels on food before I purchase it to feed my kid, I would like to know what is in a Comic book or book before buying it for my child.
There is a comic book rating system
+Itay ELDAD Comics are based towards a certain audience, like wondergirl and some Batman comics are made for little kids. most is for adults
No there isn´t. The in house system just do what they want. To an infamous degree even and EU comics and manga also exist.
Comics have ratings. At least the ones I have.
Real food apples, oranges, grapes, and etc. have no label. Only altered food would need labels.
10 out of 10 criminals eat food ban food
lol
Dihydrogen monoxide kills more people every year than shark attacks. As little as a tablespoon of the substance can be deadly... that's why all forms of water were banned from a city in west virginia few few years back. The ban was quickly lifted when someone finally explained to the people who had hardlined the law through, just what they had made illegal.
Ban food, free HAT! Hat didn't do it!
Food did.
+The true Satoh Yeah, people need to start learning about chemistry before they start banning everything that labeled as a "chemical". :\
Isnt that a joke?
I think an age rating system similar to movies and video games would be appropriate :)
comic books do have an age ratting
@@somethingsomething9008 true, but they are self-imposed ratings, and can you really trust a ratings system by people who ultimately are guided by their bottom line of sales? A third party ratings board not affiliated with the companies producing the books is needed. They wouldn't censor the work, but they would issue a warning on questionable material in the book.
The only downside is that those kids will miss out on some stories
No..😑
except the actual system used for both movies and video games is complete garbage.
a rating system is better than complete censorship 10 times out of 10
payton richards 100% agree
And it would have been a much better idea to implement than the comics code authority.
Goofy comics aren't why I read comics. I don't want to see Superman crying into Jimmy's turkey baster. I read comics because I want a world like mine, but with heroes who can ACTUALLY DO something to affect the world. I want to see amazing things I wish were true. I want to see horrific things that make my fears look tame. Having someone who is NOT a fan of comics tell a comic book writer and artist what they are allowed to put into their comic is like ME being able to tell you what to put in your youtube video.
Yes. I can offer suggestions. I can tell you how I feel and what I think... but the choice must be your own because it is YOUR passion, your art, your expression. If we limit free expression, then we limit everything. We limit what we can become. We limit imagination. No more cell phones. No more exploration. We just decide to be content with what we have. To me, that is worse than death.
Sometimes those stories need to be told. A suicidal kid on drugs is out there, reading comics and thinking of dying.... or killing... and then Batman faces the Scarecrow, who dopes him up on Fear Toxin and makes him face terrors that kid has seen... that kid identifies with Batman and sees something that inspires him. He wants to BE Batman... he wants to fight it. Who knows... maybe bad things have happened because of the wrong kind of inspiration. Maybe. But good things certainly have. You can take both... but you can never take away just one because inspiration is personal.
I grew up at that time, and all comics were the same, yet I still loved them - I was a kid - and the campiness gave us the Adam West Batman, which is great fun, though I hated it at first. Ironically, some of the cliffhangers on TV involved planned deaths by circular saw, or acid, or drowning. Scenes that would never be permitted in comics!
Neil070 When I was a kid, Saturday morning cartoons were like that. The Super Friends was campy and lame, but I loved it and love it to this day. I loved Adam West as well... but as I grew older and picked up my first "real" comic book, I saw Vigilante cussing and dealing with real crime. I saw a member of Checkmate save a white guy from assassins only to find that the white guy was a racist pig. So the guy from Checkmate took off his glove to shake the guy's hand and the racist pig saw that he had been saved by a black guy.
For me, comics became the greatest method of story telling ever... and those stories packed a punch. THAT is why I continue to read them. Maybe Batman doesn't always have the best story lines and my tastes tend more towards weird, indie comics... but I still read them because I want my brain challenged, stimulated and given a work out.
I completely agree with you sir I tip my hat to you
Aaron Mackellar Thank you
+Mikael Bloomqvist no problem
The amount of people advocating for censorship is disturbing.
Yeah if they want censorship move to china
Comics, rock and roll, Dungeons and Dragons, metal music, video games, rap... There is always something some one has a beef with. People always go overboard and I'm not even sure if most of them really care. I think a lot of politicians just look for easy targets to drum up publicity for their campaign and we get to suffer for it.
To answer your question, I think artists need to learn a bit of self censorship. Going to the grotesque and foul just to get attention makes for boring art in the long run. An musician that constantly drops the F bomb just because it's shocking can become unrelatable. If there was a story or a message there it is overwhelmed by unnecessary vulgarity. It does not hurt the audience at all. In the long run it hurts the artist who's work is widely forgotten and those that do remember think of them as a hack. We don't need censors overseeing peoples work. People do their own censorship without even knowing it.
Not all 'censorship' campaigns are politically-based, tho. The man who wrote "Seduction of the Innocent" was a psychologist in private practice, not someone seeking elected office. His concern was that children - who were a big chunk of actual comics readers - were maybe being exposed to material too 'mature' for them to handle. Keep in mind that most other mediums of that era - the 50s - were pretty tame, in comparison. Movies were censored, and the 'edgiest' show on TV was "The Twilight Zone".
@@wylier what do you think politics are? cause you described a political action after saying its not political.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 what 'political action' did I descibe?
As for your self-censorship advice, "gangsta" rappers earn huge fortunes off obscene lyrics, which may even cause copycat crimes because the musicians and some fans are gang-bangers. They made Snoop Doggy Dog, Ice Cube, and NWA household words. I agree with your objection to trollish lyrics only against bigoted lyrics common in "gangsta" rap. Perhaps both moral crusaders and troll artists go overboard and pick on easy targets for publicity?
Wouldn't it be hilarious if someone created a comic that broke every single rule in the old Comic Code? Even extending to the rules they have for advertising? It would be completely obscene and ridiculous but it could be an entertaining creative experiment.
The title: The Horror of Crime.
+112steinway yeah, it'd be called Hentai
Yeah, it would be called Invincible.
112steinway it does exist. It's Called Deadpool.
Jesse12489 lmao
It's always the "but think about the children" or "think about the women" people who want to censor art.
Milios666 censoring things are an insult to the artist that spent time and effort on his artwork; if someone went up to me and said,"hey you shouldn't draw guns, swords, weapons or anything to due with death" I'd just say fuck off.
I have an idea on how to get around the not drawing guns swords or any other kinds of weapons. draw paintball gunswords
Piklup no
That's why Nintendo's shooter is Splatoon, basically paintball turf wars
exactly. NOW THEY NEED TO MAKE A GUNSWORD-WAIT I MEAN SPLATTERSHOTROLLER
Comics and Retailers do need to institute a code. I've noticed that comics with cursing and nudity in them look just like comics without cursing and nudity. Kids in comic shops (although it's rare to see ANYBODY in a comic shop nowadays) should have clear labeling that says 'E' for everyone or 'M' for mature so they can make better decisions and Shop owners should enforce those rules. I wouldn't want my 10 year old kid reading "Sleeper".
Thumbs up to you my man
+Ursine ComicGeek yeah but lets face it all of us read something that we should't when we were kids is a part of growing up
+Ursine ComicGeek the comic shop I work at tries to put things like Crossed and thinks like that higher up on the new books wall so kids can't just grab it and start reading it. There are plenty of comics coming out now that have a rating (E, M, Teen, Teen+, etc) by the bar code which is helpful for parents and I always recommend them paying attention to that if they're worried about what their kids are going to read
+Ursine ComicGeek America and their phobia to nudity...
but when it comes to violence...
3:00
It's like what some people says about video games these days.
I guess some things never change.
Eerie, isn't it? History is cyclical. Same shit, different medium.
Liri Marelly #comicgate (?)
Paur fucking books were accused of making people dumper.
Just BØNY
Yeah. Socrates said the art of writing would ruin people’s memory, since they could just write stuff down instead of having to memorize it.
How do people today know that Socrates said that?
One of his students wrote it down.
The Pip It's true to a degree. In the 90s I had friends' phone numbers memorized. As phones started being able to remember them for me my brain stopped remembering them. It's not an age thing, younger people don't remember many numbers off the top of their heads like we did at their age.
Fredric Wertham believed that human violence can be eliminated.....oh man i needed a good laugh, what a naive soul
Man... I thought the SAME thing...
Well it is possible, but it's very unprobable. He was too optimistic to think that violence would be eliminated at the time he was living.
its not clear that belief is what motivated him. What probably did was the realization that rates of juvenlile crime and delinquency were going up at the same time that the newstands were offering more violent and subversive comics - he saw a 'cause and effect' link there.
Wertheim sounds like a closeted pervert
@@wylier subversiveness in media has played a large part- ironically enough politicans created subversive cultures as well
I was taking a psychology class in college and "Seduction of the Innocent" was brought up. The professor was clearly on Wertham's side (No kidding, a liberal professor pawning off people doing bad things to anything other than their parents or their own choices, imagine that.) Well, I raised my hand and said "If we are to use the fact that kids read comics and then misbehaved or had trouble learning which makes it the comics fault, what about this? Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz. They all drank water, does that mean drinking water will turn you into a serial killer?"
The professor then tried to explain why that was a fallacy when I interrupted him and said that the kids reading comics was just as much a fallacy as my water example. Finally he gave in when I mentioned that there has never been a real study to examine the effects of comic books on a child's psyche since "Seduction" came out and furthermore, there was no peer reviewed data to suggest Wertham was right to begin with.
It sounds like it was a combative argument but no, it was actually really fun and the professor did give me credit for my passion on the subject, especially when he found out I did a paper on the same thing in 3rd grade. He found that out because a girl I had gone to school with my entire life had the same class and told him once we were finished.
Why don't we have good debate like that anymore
Cause the internet exist
I expected the teacher to kick you out of class or double down, or both.
Thankfully it had a lovely twist instead.
... and other things that definitely happened
@@JohnDiGrizUkraine that Professor’s name? Albert Einstein.
The rating system we have in TV shows, Movies, and Video Games seems to work pretty well to an extent. We just need more parents to know what the symbols mean, so they don't buy their 10 year olds Call of Duty. I think the same thing can be done with comic books. Let's just use the game rating system as an example. Give Spider-Man an E for Everybody while restricting Deadpool to M for Mature. Both can be sold it's just if a kid wants to get his/her hand on Merc with a mouth his/her parent would have to buy it for them. I think if rating systems go unnoticed they aren't doing their job. That's why when I worked at wal-mart I always told parent who were buy CoD what the rating system meant, and so then decided to buy their child something else. If we just ignore rating systems people will come against them, and say that they don't matter. Thus they will try and get all of them censored. I don't want my Mortal Kombat censored because you didn't want to take the time to know what a few symbols meant. That being said I probably wont keep my kid from playing graphic games. It just depends on the game itself.
***** Comics actually do have a rating system(Marvel does at least), all of my comics (which is 95% Marvel) have some sort of A ( for adult) or T (for Teen) thing. It's not as prominent as ones for videogames, but it's on the covers and is visible.
Yeah I noticed that not long after posting this, but it needs to be more prominent.
In ireland and the uk we just have the age on the game box to show what age you need to be
In my opinion the rating system should be gone, since many people don't even mind it. Heck, I know a child that watches Horror movies and plays Call of Duty but his mental state is healthy. I even watched Jaws as a kid but that wasn't the reason I became scarred of being eaten by a shark while casually swimming in the sea. My life experiences show me that this +18 rated stuff don't affect kids as much as people belive they do. The only thing IMO that affects children is bad parenting.
Jignerd Saw Very true, my parents used to have myself & my younger sister watch horror films with them when we were 2, 3, & 4 years old, we watched Child's Play, Nightmare On Elm Street, & Friday The 13th, & when I was 5 or 6 I remember waking up in the middle of the night & flipping through the channels to HBO & Cinamax & watching softcore porn; and I came out fine, I do not drink, do not smoke, have never done drugs & lost my virginity at age 28. So it didn't make me deranged.
I don't think the Comics Code should be around but they should have ratings, like little kids should read Batman Endgame or Death of the Family
or The Killing Joke
+TheHeadBanger201 Or Arkham Asylum Serious hours On Serious Earth
They DO have an age rating; I remember very clearly that almost all issues of Death of the Family had a 17+ label or so.
Jaja yes and only 15 year old went to see Deadpool
+David Rodriguez deadpool was a 15 in the uk
tbh your videos are the best. So glad you aren't lazy and actually breakdown reasons that answer questions thousands of people have. Really Appreciate it!
***** Once again a perfect example for what kind of videos we need more of. It surpasses fandom and enters actual comic studies, and informs comic readers in a much broader way. I honestly consider using some of your videos for my master thesis, especially your video about "The REAL Origin of Superman Explained!". More comic history and behind the scene stuff please :)
Thanks so much! Let me know if you ever use my videos for anything. I try to add sources in the description so you can do further research if you need.
Oh, very nice of you, thanks! :) Should be very helpful. And let me know if I can contribute with something or help out with a difficult topic (my specialty is Nietzsche, and my master thesis is going to be about the parallels and differences between Nietzsches heroism/Übermensch and the american idea of a superhero - just if you'd be interested) :)
Does anyone have a link to the Mary Jane art in the thumbnail I need it for.....reasons
+TheBroly Destroyer if I was a pervert I would be trying to peep on girls changing clothes pretty much every guy. jacks off at least once a week
+TheBroly Destroyer ummmm.......I already did I'm slightly embarrassed to admit.
It's an issue cover of the Spider Island event by Humberto Ramos.
Aaron Mackellar Oh come on
It's for a friend.
Before your question I just wanted to say given the time, you did an amazing job with the topic. Sir take a bow, and if you're ever in CO hit me up because you earned yourself a beer.
Wednesday's Serial Thanks so much! I was actually pretty disappointed with how much stuff I had to cut out of the script. I'm glad to hear that you liked my second draft. haha
***** Honestly I would of thought you'd save Wertham for a separate episode. It would be easy to do a CCA month with an episode per draft. I don't know how popular that would of been though. Not nitpicking, you did a great job, trying to figure what's staying and going seems impossible to me. But that's why you do 12 minute videos and I do 2 hour ones.... *ramble *ramble
Wednesday's Serial I don't know if a CCA month would have worked so well. Haha. I doubt this video will even get close to the same amount of views as most other ones. Plus, I said most things I wanted to say about Wertham. Although I honestly would have liked to share more of his accomplishments so that people stop judging him for this one chapter of his life, even if it is the biggest chapter.
***** I read an interview with a comic creator once ( spacing on the name right now sorry) talking about this chapter of comics history. Most people talk about it as a dark time and all of the censorship whatnot. He pointed out that "we won" the case was lost for government control. The CCA was a self regulated entity.
But thanks for pointing that out about Wertham I was probably in a guilty camp of persecuting the man.
I just wanted to make it fair to him. I was talking with a friend of mine who said he was won over and understood now that Wertham really wasn't that bad of a person. He did some shady stuff sometimes and was the king of hyperbole, but all a lot of his achievements are actually pretty great. For example, that low-cost psychiatric clinic for the underprivileged in Harlem was nice of him to set up. But he also was apparently a big player in bigger issues in American culture as well. I forget the specifics, but I remember being taken back by what he was able to do in his lifetime.
This... is actually the only video on the subject that I've seen that showed at Fredric Wertham in a positive light. Kudos. It actually really showed me something that I didn't know.
lastlife0726 Thanks! I thought it was only fair to shed some light on him. There was a lot of other things I cut out due to time, but he actually accomplished some great things.
I'm researching comic history for school and I've read and seen some really interesting stuff on the history of comics!
Keep up the good work Nerd Sync😁
Love your videos! I just got into comics about a year or so ago so it is really cool to get to know all of this :D
Vincentdrummer16 Glad I could help! Also, for the record, you are FIRST to comment on this video. Well done. Haha
You sir are both a gentleman and a scholar!! Thanks for the great unbiased information! Good job!
Davi J Vee Thanks so much for the kind words!
I was reading some old spiderman on marvel unlimited and saw the comics code authority seal. After some wikipedia reading google led me to this video and i really liked it. Subscribed!
The absolute best, less biased video on the matter on UA-cam.
While limitations can help creativity, I have found it frustrating that the end result was often not what I wanted. I drew comics in highschool and so many students read them it was determined that I had to meet school standards. whenever I didn't meat the standards, it resulted in a missing issue that had to be read outside of school or some people just skipped that issue. In the end, none of my stories were allowed in school as I began writing the story of a young man training to be a knight but questioning the lawful good moral code he would have to stick to. Eventually the the main character became a vigilante and my stories were seen as promoting anarchy and depending the authority of the teachers. In reality, the story was just about how I liked playing as a paladin in fantasy games but preferred a chaotic good moral code. It depends on how well the sensors understand the story.
Limitations in media by censorship caused queer subtext and innuendo in film noir, blues lyrics, and '70s sitcoms. Unfortunately, it kept LGBT characters and plots out of comics, movies, and television or stereotyped them from the 1930s to the '90s, causing many Alt-Right people to expect such censorship and demand it in "anti-woke" laws against Black history and LGBT textbooks and library readings to children by drag queens, fearing they would "trans" their kids.
Excellent video Scott! I personally am a fan of media of any sort that airs on the side of caution when it comes to content. I would not presume to limit the freedom of creativity, but I would like to be informed what kinds of content are in media before I consume them; like the ratings of movies and TV. Being a dad, I know it is my responsibility, not the media's, to monitor what my family is being exposed to. Having the content of media spelled out makes my job in that arena much easier!
Garrett Lohuis That is very well said. Thank you for that input!
Nothing more to add. In Poland, for example, there is an ongoing Great Marvel Comics Collection published by Hachette. On the editorial page there's always a note that not all the content of the given comic book is suitable for the audience under the 16th year of age. Still, it is up to the reader or the reader's parent if he/she should read the book or not :] Just like Garret Lohuis said. Me and my colleagues enclose such a note to our own series as well.
I personally think that parents should be always available to their children for advice, i mean, it-s okay to watch a relativeley violent movie, or one about delicate subjects, if the parents are present to give the child explanations about the content shown. I think it's much better than letting kids watching "safe" TV by themselves.
I can go with that. I'm not a father but I would like to know what the content is, just for the simple fact I may not filly like watch or reading about it.
I didn't like how in BTAS they were not allowed to kill anyone so they didn't and used very unrealistic ways of keeping them alive, seriously like 76 villains fall into water! Someone surely died during those adventures, even if it was by accident!
Your videos are always informative and entertaining to watch. Keep up the good work!
Andrew Philips Thank you so much!
Why not just have a rating system, like we do with movies and video games? Hell, steal the video game ratings straight out; they make the most sense. E for everyone, T for teen, M for mature, and AO for the comics you can only find at certain specialty stores, if you know what I mean.
Seriously, this is a good way to make sure parents know what their kids are getting into, fans can know what kind of stories they are getting into, a clear set of guidelines can promote the creative censorship that you mentioned, nothing has to be censored beyond the creator's intent, and if the mature content starts getting out of hand stores can require an adult to purchase the more mature comics.
This brings us basically every benefit from either system.
"Um if you read comics you can't actually read."
I had a reading level equal to a 12 grader by the time I reached 6th grade and most likely prior to that as well, but I don't read "real books" very often. Only every few months. Why do I have such a high reading level? What do I read on a regular basis? Comic Books...
Error Macro same I have a high reading level but I read manga a lot
Exactly. The important thing is that you read a lot. Whatever it is doesn't matter.
R/iamverysmart
@@oscaraltman8122 Not necessarily
I had a very high level as well.
I read manga.
Censorship? No
Content ratings so that parents can decide if its appropriate for their kids or not, and adults can decide for themselves if they want it or not? Yes
I love history of any sort and enjoy intellectual debate. I enjoy the quality you obviously strive for and put into your work; it shows in the depth of your research. As far as regulation for comics, well, I would say that it has be done in certain instances especially as it relates to small children and I agree with you that putting restrictions on writers may encourage creativity.
A relatively new subscriber here, I'd been waiting until I was caught up with the show before posting, but I had to say something in regards to you quoting about history. Another good quote is that the road to ruin is paved in good intentions. A quote I feel applies very much to Wertham, and I share some of his views. Especially when it comes to what children should be exposed to. I do feel that some of the stuff is probably not that good for kids to see, especially with the stigma that comics have. That said, I myself don't have a problem with some blood, just as long as it doesn't get excessive. I also feel it's more effective for kids to see how dangerous fighting can be, though a hero shouldn't be beaten down to a pulp. (I read comics and go to movies for escape from reality and to feel good, not to be hammered with things from the real world I already deal with enough as it is and end up depressed.) Yes, a hero should take some hits, show injury, maybe get knocked down for a moment, but rise back up to continue the fight rather than go down for a lengthy amount of time. That's what I loved about Avengers, it's what a Super Hero movie should be, for an example. Still, there are things that kids shouldn't be exposed to, and I do agree that some limitations can really breed great creativity. I'm not a fan of camp though, make no mistake about that, unless the series is intended to be campy, like Sonic the Hedgehog, or a Disney Cartoon featuring Mickey Mouse or one of his friends. But I have also seen where you can do very mature and dark things in a series for kids, and still make it watchable. I'm hesitant to say Transformers Prime is a good show for kids under a certain age, certainly wouldn't let anyone under ten watch it, though it is a great series. But Transformers Animated and Beast Wars were shows that could be goofy, yet they did dark and mature like few others. Batman the Animated Series and practically the entire DCAU spawned from it and concluding with Justice League Unlimited are a grand example of how to do a serious series for kids that adults can enjoy as well. Not so much for the Justice League series though since it was aired on cable, and had more lax restrictions. I guess I enjoy some goofy stuff, being a Disney fan, but I have my limits, and the silver age of comics certainly could go beyond that. Batman with Adam West anyone? It's a guilty pleasure of mine, yes, but I do have my limits on it, especially in the really campy episodes. With that, I think as long as the restrictions are done in reason, and the writers are told they can do as serious a work as they want to within the restrictions, I think things could really go well.
"And parents saw these comics as the problem"
*sigh* somethings never change do they?
Maybe do a video on why DC mostly utilizes mock cities (Gotham, Metropolis, etc) while Marvel mostly utilizes real cities...
yes scot
+TheAnanaki I think I can already cover that, at least partially. Most of the characters who live in fictional cities are the older characters (Batman and Superman) so instead of just setting them in New York they set them in fictionalized version of New York which gave the writers freedom to create their own locations within the cities. It's also worth noting that the fictional cities themselves have changed over the years to fit the needs of the stories.
Also, not for nothing, but from what little I know it seems 90 percent or more of Marvel characters live in New York, mainly because back in the day researching visual and other references was much harder than it became later and most writers and artists lived and worked in New York.
As more and more writers and artists started working from all over the world and it became easier to get the reference required that changed.
On a personal note I find fictional cities more fun to work in. I do a lot of role playing game stuff and I love creating fictional cities and making up the various features and histories of that fictional city. :)
Chris McWilliams Right on. Thank you for all that info. That all makes complete sense to me now. It is the older characters that usually have the analog cities. I never noticed that before. And in the pre internet world, I see why Marvel had a hard on for New York too. Lol. Thanks again man.
TheAnanaki Glad to give my two cents. :)
Metropolis is actually the name of a city in Illinois however the writers might not have known it. Movie called Metropolis about the future is likely where name for Superman's city came from. Clark Kent name most likely came from Clark Gable and Kent Howard that were popular actors at the time.
I love this show! You're the coolest, Scott!
Great video Scott!!!i never knew about the code
I'm studying research similar to what Dr. Fredric Wertham done( mine is on obesity though) , did research without really understanding of the answer he got(blaming comics), brought the idea general public who took it at face value without doing their own research and tried to cause an epidemic...When giving a situation like this always read between the lines and develop your own opinion..great video as always dude
AHeroAlmost Thanks! Yeah, Wertham's book was a book full of anecdotes and stories, but not really any hard facts or evidence. It didn't really matter to the people at the time because stories are more easily relatable to larger amounts of people than numbers and data. Stories have characters and emotion and drama. Wertham knew this and used this to his advantage often.
Your video reminds me of the video game struggles of the 90’s. Comic and video games almost share a similar fate. Both had collapses that nearly destroyed them. Both had vocal people trying to reduce the violence in both. And have the similar kinds of change over the years. Only major difference was video games were making junk and brought out too many games at once. Personally I think there is going to be a falling out again sometime by the end of next decade.
Anyway as for censorship in comics, I’m mixed on that. Really if you look stuff before the Marvel Cinematic universe really took off from Avengers. It’s not that they push the envelope a bit much, which I find good. Really some of this stuff would have never gotten past some of the sensors from back then. Mostly they “kill” off the villain they are fighting, something that makes the hero’s closer to anti-heroes or chaotic good. I’m happy they have more opened end ways in the movies. Realistically most villains never reform and come back out to commit more crime. They follow the mentally the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. Not always, but more often than not. This will bring me up to my next point.
I don’t follow comics much anymore, no tablet and too lazy to get a tablet to get them. I’ve followed manga and when I first started watching anime. I was shocked at just “how much they” get away with. I remember reading Bleach manga and then watching the anime and seen how much was censored in the anime. That it sort of took away from the original work. Good point is Mayuri vs. Szayel Aporro battle. But I do know Japan, compared to our standards is very lax. But they do sort of have different types stuff for different types of people. Most of their stuff is geared toward teenage+ males. Yes they have stuff for females and some young kids to stuff just meant for adults.
This what comics should do. They should have a rating system like video games. Look at manga that’s brought over to the United States. They have T, T15+, T17+ and once in a great well Adult. Yes it doesn’t work well for video games, but at least it would be a start. You need at most 3 separate groups for teens. 13 to 17 is just a bit too much of a gap. This way the writers wouldn’t be restricted as long as they didn’t go overboard. In the end though, we shouldn’t be so easily offended as a country at something minor. I’m not saying be like Japan is towards “censorship”, but we should be more opened to the way we portray our hero’s. But I’ve read maybe a few of my brothers and seen some changes from the 90’s. As odd as it is, darker stories sell better than a sugar coded rainbow. This way you can make a group for like 8-12, 13 to 14, 15 to 16 and 17. This way could create many more stories. Heck Like the 8 to 12 groupd can be it's own universe. Instead of the 616 or Earth 1.
Sorry for long post. I just think they should be able to express themselves more. The moment you give an inch to the whiners, another group can come in and censor what they don’t like. Until we get a comic books that are just like a Lego Marvel/Batman game. Japan manga really doesn’t have a lot of problems, so I’m sure the US could do that same. Yes I know they don't allow certain stuff too, and they just do fine. Great video thanks for the info.
You did make a good point about writers being more creative thanks to the restrictions. The animated shows seem to be lacking in creativity in some to most scenes. Though some are way to ridiculously strict it is also the parents job to check up on what the kids are watching if they are so concerned for their mental will being.
Scott: Thank you for all your awesome videos but this is one of my favorite topics. To your question: You make a thought-provoking point about censorship leading to creativity but I would point out that society forces too much self-censorship to need someone to corral artists. If the work is bad... Would not a healthy refuse to support it financially?
I actually think that it would be a good idea for comics to have some sort of sign that says if they are acceptable for children or not. Marvel and DC always target children in some way. Animated series, movies which are sometimes a little too childfriendly (looking at you Marvel) and action figures yet their comics aren't known to be childfriendly. I think that they should make some comicbooktitles targeted at children, sort of like the DC animated universe comics.
Well it says t for teen and whatnot in the corner on current comics but the problem is that there is a wide range of what can be done under teen. One teen rated comic can be fine for kids another will be to much for an 12 year old.
Marvel heros are very different from DC, because the heroes are facing real life problems. Spider-man facing some hardship, Iron Man having a drinking problem and the X-men facing prejudice and racism.
Neoguest Is there a point you want to make?
JustDenzell Marvel did made comicbook tie in to their cartoons.
Neoguest I know but the only cartoons Marvel has right now are Ultimate Spider-Man, Avengers Assemble and Hulk And The Agents Of Smash. In my opinion they're not as bad as everyone says they are but they certainly aren't as good as the cartoons of the DCAU. I don't know if these Marvel cartoons have comic book tie ins but I if they have them, they're probably not that good.
I think there is room for some censureship. If they want to market to children, then they need to be suitable for children. Age ratings are a better than banning or removing content for the most part.
While the CAA was ultimately a bad idea, people do need to remember that some of the comics being marketed at the time were pretty gruesome or even distasteful. If they had gone for an age rating instead of a blanket code it would have been betrer.
Scot, thanks for the show. I'm glad I found your channel a few months ago and have been watching ever since. You go over a lot of info per topic with the little time you have and I have to commend you on it. Like you, I would agree that the lost of the code has allowed creators to become lazy. Especially when it comes to dialogue. In the early issues of Uncanny Avengers, they have Rogue and Scarlet Witch just releasing several four letter words. It just seemed out of place and unnecessary. Used more for shock value than for true artistry. Perhaps if there was some form of the Code still around then it would inspire more creativity. It takes more creativity to figure out how to say a dirty word without saying it than it does to just say it.
Mario Burnette Thanks for the kind words!
Come on, you know I'm gonna post a comment to every new episode, but again, good episode giving a nice insight of the subject and a sleek, fun presentation
P Pugnans Haha, thanks!
You don't need censorship to get the effect that you're describing. A good artist will know that the human mind is capable of imagining things better (or worse depending on the situation) then a person could ever present in any visual form.
While that's true, censorship CAN push creators in that way. Bruce Timm has talked about it, with Standards & Practices, when they were making Batman the Animated Series. How being told they couldn't show something pushed them to be more creative, and often, come up with something more resonant, or even darker, just less explicit. Other creators have talked about it, as well. I'm 100% anti-censorship, but it can't be denied that boundaries can have this effect.
Ironic that prohibition that led to bootlegging was reversed/yet the "war on drugs" imprisoned Black people & created cartels @@jamesoblivion
To your question, I don't think there should be anything like the CCA but you bring up a great point of barriers and creativity. Frankly I wish there was some clear lines, because comics aren't for kids anymore, and frankly there always should be a few that are. It's hard to tell what you can give to say a 9 year old. I think Marvel was close when the initially broke away from the code basically following the the move letter guideline. This way we could have comics for everyone, comics for pre teens, and then comics for beyond that.
I think the limits are good for all the reasons you brought up, but I don't think creators shouldn't be able to tell stories like say Saga because the story would break all of the rules.
So let's have a summit figure out an industry standard, but have the advisory label on the cover regulated by the publisher.
That's what I think anyways, great question.
Wednesday's Serial Thanks! You make a lot of great points. I was struggling with whether or not I wanted to ask this question because I felt like the comments would just be one giant "NO", but I'm thrilled to see that a lot of people are actually taking time and evaluating it. As a guy who likes to overthink things, I'm so happy to see that others share the same passion for!
***** Ya I'm against censorship in any form, but giving parents something to go by because they don't know "Mark Miller" means "Adults Only" it seems fair to give them a heads up.
Exactly cause if you give a kid a comic that traumatized them or the parent sees how dark it is and won't let the kid read more, then what happens to the next generation if readers.
I really hate that there are comics that save for 1 moment I could hand to a 10 year old. Writers misuse their ability to do what they want so they make things far more graphic than necessary. When a character gets shot now an days we see their head gushing out blood. Back in the 80's you have get the point across just as well by having them fall on the ground and the panel ends where their head is so you don't have to see it. Now yes their are some cases where you need that level of violence to achieve the point if your story but that's why we have stuff like max and vertigo. You can show this stuff there but in mainstream stuff its kept mostly clean so kids can actually begin to read them.
Browncoat eric brought up a great point once where he said that he loves hellblazer and preach and is fine with the violence and swearing, but that in a mainstream marvel book there should not be an image if sentry ripping a man in half showing his organs spill out.
Sweet video bro, genuinely learnt a lot!
Definitely think that a lack of restrictions, but installments of common sense, are better for creativity...but that's maybe a bit of a bias view olo :)
Really cool topic pat
10:14
I always liked the saying; "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.".
Yes, his intention may have been good. But he went about in such despicable way. Stifling creativity, taking away freedom and force feeding his, very debatable, ideas of maturity to millions of young children, heck all comics readers. What people want isn't what he wanted for them, and that wasn't his call to make anyways, nor should it be any one person's.
MarxForever Just be clear here, Wertham wasn't really stifling creativity. He just wanted to restrict the sale of crime and horror comics to children. He didn't set out to censor comics in any way or ban the sale of them for everyone. That wasn't what he was about. Any censorship of comics was done entirely separate from Wertham's wishes. I'm not defending him or saying that what he did was right, but rather just making sure we're all on the same page.
***** I think though that his "Crusade" against comics is what caused so many people to turn against comics and regulated them to where they are today. In Japan or other countries that don't have this history, comics are accepted by everyone and viewed as a very valid media. As you brought out the CCA wasn't created in response to Wortham, but to the "movement" he started. The best thing is a rating system like for movies or TV, which is ironically what he wanted in the first place. But considering this was the time frame of the second Red Scare and the beginning of the Cold War, when parents are frightened the first thing they worry about is their children. Wortham abused this hysteria and it went farther than he wanted, so the comic industry amputated itself as an act of survival. He was reckless and unethical, despite whatever intentions he had.
I agree with you, I just want to be fair in the distinction that he did not directly censor things or endorse the code. A lot of stuff he did was pretty shady, but it doesn't feel right to me to blame him directly for the CCA. His actions may have led to the creation of that, but you could also then say that the real problem then was juvenile delinquency that led him to research it, and then link that back to the culture at the time and the causes that led that to happening. I just think it's easier for people to blame a person other than an abstract concept. It's all just a series of cause and effect, and I personally don't think it's fair to blame Wertham for all of it. At the end of the day, the comics publishers were the ones who decided to enact the code.
@MarxForever Agreed.
MarxForever Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
It sounds like comics was in the same place as video games are today. Comics was a "kid" thing but not rverything was kid friendly. Like gta. Many think video games are for kids but some games are not for kids but many kids buy then anyway. I dont play video games that mutch but I think the next thing that kids start to like will be censured. In the 80s karate and horror movies was for grown ups but many kids watched it and got relly scared. Every generation have a thing like this.
raggarharry That's fascinating to think about. It also reminds me of music, too. I remember my friends growing up listening to explicit albums as a way to kind of rebel against their parents or just seem more grown up or cool. I don't really feel like that's the case these days. Then again, I'm also not a little kid growing up in today's culture, so I don't have that frame of reference.
I was tierd. Thanks anyway :)
The worst thing about that is that kids manipulate their parents into buying games that are rated m and then the parent acts surprised when the kid swears like a sailer two days later and blames all games.
Wasn't just America. Around this time in my native UK we got the Children and Young Persons (Harmful Publications) Act in 1955. Which banned "...any book, magazine or other like work which is of a kind likely to fall into the hands of children or young persons and consists wholly or mainly of stories told in pictures (with or without the addition of written matter), being stories portraying-
(a) the commission of crimes; or
(b) acts of violence or cruelty; or
(c) incidents of a repulsive or horrible nature;
in such a way that the work as a whole would tend to corrupt a child or young person into whose hands it might fall."
So if you printed, published, sold or rented these out, you were up before a jury and could face up to four months in prison. Oh, and the police were given powers to get search warrants and confiscate them.
GTA is tame compared to some other games, there isn't a lot of gore.
Thanks! I was actually wondering the Comic Code Authority was still a thing :)
Good video as Always, very clear explications!
Kevin's Comics I appreciate it!
Boy, when you research, you really *research*! I knew much of the stuff about the creation of the CCA, but had no idea about the ACMP, or Wertham's non-violence views. Nor did I realize that the CCA still existed as late as 2011--I thought it had died long before that.
As a kid, I couldn't understand why DC referred to their titles like "House of Mystery", "Secrets of the Haunted House", or
"Tales of the Unexpected" as "mystery" comics. To me, mystery comics should have been like mystery books--detectives solving mysteries (speaking of which, why aren't there more real mystery and detective comics around? They seem to be pretty scarce). Of course, it was the CCA's restriction on the use of the word "horror" that explains DC's use of the term.
Now you can already guess that I'm going to be against censorship. However, I agree that restrictions can encourage people to be more creative. It's similar to the Hayes Code being developed for movies in the 1930s. Many 30s and 40s movies have better, more interesting plots because they could no longer take the easier way of showing more explicit stuff in the movies back then.
However, ratings like the motion picture association ratings are still not a perfect solution, as biases and tendencies tend to develop around the ratings themselves. How many modern movie producers have deliberately introduced elements in their movies to make sure they get a PG-13 rating instead of the G rating, because apparently audiences for G movies just aren't as big?
So while I would like to see some kind of ratings system for comics, I'd like to avoid the development of biases related to such a system. Sure, parents ought to be involved in their children's selection of reading material, especially younger children, but that gets more difficult and less likely as the kids turn into teenagers. The distribution system itself has to be involved. With comic book stores and book stores that sell comics, this should be pretty easy, as that's their focus--they can decide if the material is inappropriate for the child or teen. Grocery stores, drug stores, and other places that sell comics would have a more difficult time regulating their sales, but could simplify the process by limiting what comics they sell in the first place. You wouldn't expect those places to have a wide variety of comic titles on hand, anyway. That's what the specialty stores are for.
As for stimulating the creativity of the writers and artists, that's most likely the editor's job, as someone has already suggested, and, of course, the creators could always challenge themselves in various ways. The publishers can, and occasionally have, specifically created comics targeted towards younger readers: DC's Super Friends, or Marvel's Spidey Super Stories, for example. It would also help if the comic publishers were to broaden their genre material--every comic does not have to involve superheroes.
I think the real challenge for comics now is to tell specifically adult tales that children simply wouldn't be interested in. Sure, adding sex and violence (or ACTION) is a sure-fire way to generate interest, but that doesn't necessarily make it "mature". Doing something like exploring the relationship between love and sex, on the other hand, is a much more mature concept, and is sure to be boring to 10 year olds, who aren't interested in or ready to handle such things. And if the teenagers read it, they may actually learn something useful or edifying from it. In other words, truly mature comics would be essentially self-regulating.
I dunno about censorship, but maybe a rating system like the one they have for manga. Do western comics have those?
Most comics I buy say Teen+
The is no coherent ratings system for manga, as the in house systems are identical to the nonsense the US comics publishers have. A lot of harder edged anime also just come out "unrated". None wants a NC-17 for child pornographic content after all.
Man I love this channel I remember when there was no comic book channels
Obeng Chang And now there's just so many great ones to choose from!
.
***** 'm definitely excited to see the watchmojo list of best comic book channels
The issue was very interesting but my favorite part was the past you sketches! That was hilarious!
Jonathan Shackelford Haha. Thanks!
***** But now you're past-you. And now, I'm past-me! AAAAAAAH!
Of course it shouldtn be censor, the people who want it censor arent buying them to begging with.
I think comics writers should be creative and free
jack ireland Fair enough. Haha
Jack Ireland agreed, they should get some age rating though, like other media
comic books do have age rattings
mr walugi guy didn't know that
Damn i love your videos!
Hey Scott ! Love you videos but where did you get the lantern rings in your background ?!?!? I want a green lantern ring so bad love you man keep up the great videos
NerdyNinja 999 You can buy them off of Amazon I believe!
Thanks man I'll look in to it :)
I do consider the CCA to of been censorship, which I am very much against. I am perfectly fine with a ratings system like what Marvel has, & would be fine with that being industry wide, however I also would not want stores to stop people from getting whatever comic they want, I am for the reader seeing the rating & deciding themselves (or for their children) whether they want the comic.
If it wasn't for this movement.... a lot of the Golden and Silver age comic books would not be so rare and valuable today... as most of them were burned or discarded back then.
Great video
Thanks for the history
I was rewatching the Justice League animated series and i noticed a small Easter egg. In the episode 'Eclipsed', G. Gordon is bashing the justice league and he mentions a book by "Dr. Fredrick" that is titled as "Innocent Seduced". The content of the book is almost the same as what you mentioned like bad influence for children such as picking fights and not eating green vegetables (that last one though 😂). I literally have never noticed it before until now.
I do agree that restriction breeds creativity. I think of the violence in gorenography like Hostel compared to the workarounds to get Nolans Batman movies to be PG 13. Things the Joker did were so much more visceral and impactful because the imagination had to fill in just enough rather than getting it spoon fed.
That said, I think it should be editors purview to challenge their writers and artists rather than a hard self censorship.
To me there needs to be restraint and an overlying set of rules. Like have editors not allow stories about child deaths to go out unless its handled responsibly and not just for shock factor.
MisterCorrin I like how you worded that last part. It should be seen as presenting a challenge to the creative team, not necessarily a restriction. Well said.
Before video games took the heat for "Creating Violent Youth" there were comics...
This is likely be one of my favorite comic misconceptions, as someone born in
1990, I felt as if I missed the goofy era of comic books where an interesting story could be told and also be hilarious. I was always curious what had changed between now and then,
Danund81 I'm glad you liked the episode! I personally adore the Silver Age. There's nothing quite like it. Haha
As far as i know many comic book publishers were said to have dropped the code and adopted their own rating systems but i wonder how these systems work, as i somehow feel like some of them are getting even more "censored"
I wouldn't mind and ESRB style rating system but I don't necessarily think it's anymore necessary than more censorship is(read: nor very necessary at all). But I do think we need more comics around that are targeted at younger readers because the entire industry has shifted to focus on teens and adults but little kids love comic book characters too(find me a kid who doesn't know who Spider-Man, Batman, Iron Man and Superman are) and it would be great if there were more comics suitable for that age group. I'm talking super hero comics here, by the way.
*an
Silver Fang there actually is an ESRB style thing for comic (Marvel ones at least)
Get well, Scott! Although, health was improving during the video. Past Scott can be glory hog sometimes. There always be censorship in comics, because people get offended all the time. You're correct, creators show their talent on those limitations. A really talented creator would see censorship as a challenge, not a limitation.
IncanTV I really love that last sentence you wrote. I'm going to write that down somewhere.
Go for it!
IncanTV I actually mentioned this comment on a podcast I just recorded with Mr. Sunday, but I am sorry to say that I could not remember your username or else I would have credited it to you.
Sharing credit with you is awesome!
I believe that a code for comics do not need to exist today! Maybe back then it made a big difference due to the parents complaining, but today the only boundaries that should exist, should be made by the publishers themselves. As you said some boundaries may help the creativity, but a too strict set of rules would also definitely ruin the comic book industry as we know it!
Especially with all these new hollywood comic book movies!
Hey Scott I love listening to your guys podcast however I have already listened to them all and I need more. What are some podcasts you listen to. Besides the weekly pull
StarFruitNinja The only comic book podcast I listen to is the Weekly Planet, but I listen to a TON of podcasts about trivia and just learning something new everyday.
99% Invisible is amazing! Good Job, Brain is also high on my list if you just love learning little facts and pieces of trivia. The Cracked Podcast is wonderful for learning a lot about culture, movies and tv, history, and a lot of misconceptions about things. I can't really describe that one very well. You just have to listen to it. Lastly, but certainly not least, Mike Rugnetta's podcast, Reasonably Sound, is one of my new favorites. It explores the world of all things sound, and he even did a comic book SFX episode that inspired me to write up an episode of CM sometime in the future about the same subject.
Basically, I just like to learn about all sorts of things and find ways to apply them to comic books. I actually try to avoid other comic book content so that it doesn't rub off on how I make my own videos. Hope this was helpful!
Thank you so much for responding love your videos and can't believe someone as cool as you responded to me.
StarFruitNinja Sure thing!
***** listening to the cracked right now. Keep up the good work
StarFruitNinja I hope you enjoy it! I think it gets better and better with each episode. My favorite ones are when they talk about the brain. "Decisions Your Brain Makes Behind Your Back", "How One Logical Fallacy Keeps Making You Wrong", "Your Memory Is a Filthy Liar", and "How Colors Control Your Mind" are among my favorites.
Personally I think the only censorship that should exist is self censorship. Marvel & DC, and everyone else all have their own lines that they won't cross because it would not be acceptable to most of their readers. Yes there are some comics that can get pretty graphic but I'm sure there is someone saying, "no you can't have the Punisher do that" or whatever. I don't think that there should be some outside force telling people what they can and cannot do.
I think censorship can lead to some very interesting things. Take for instance if a hero wanted to curse but couldn't. In that instance, the writer would need to come up with some way, which could end up being hilarious, for the hero to curse.
We all know what Frack really means. And in BSG they say frack so often that they might as well just drop the F-bomb. They aren't fooling anyone with their fake swear words. In the original serier Frack is only said a couple dozen times and in particularly stressful situations, not in every scene in ever episode like the fake and gay version.
Yes, however, if not overused, something like that could be used to provide comedy or to be a part of a characters personality.
Nathan Aris
Yes, used sparingly you get a sense of frustration, urgency, sorrow, excitement, etc. You don't really need outside censorship, though, smart writers and illustrators will self censor to make their material suitable for a larger audience. Look at all the adult jokes scattered throughout children's cartoons from the 40's to the present.
"Sweet christmas"
Exactly
good video had no knowledge of any of this stuff good job
weeklyrope 79677 Happy to shed some light!
There needs to be an entire video telling the story of that single woman who literally reviewed every single DC comic for 2 years straight.
I actually love how adult comics have become and I love that the DC animated features aren't afraid to get a little violent. How ever after saying that I admit that I have my girlfriend who has too little ones that Im trying to get into comics. So I say we should have a rating system instead like we have with movies and games so that parents know what there buying but also so that there can be more kid friendly comics and more darker comics like Death of the Family.
Heck death of the family is great cause its more mature then most vertigo and max stuff (rated mature) yet a thirteen year old can read it and understand it. Granted jokers face is stupid and is only for shock value but that was Tony Daniels idea not Snyder's. in mainstream marvel and dc stuff like death of the family should be the darkest you get while you also have stuff like batman 66 (definitely introduce kids to that book is great) which both kids and adult can read and its well written. I understand that stuff like preacher is great and all the max and vertigo stuff too, but that's a different audience and belongs only in vertigo and max cause that's the purpose of those imprints.
I don't think censorship is a good answer to incentivate creativity, because there could be a large number of comic books from different genres and I don't think it's a good idea restrict the content on every comic using the same rule.
I think something like DMCA is fine, but to be sincere, I never looked carefully to see if the comics have DMCA rating, I just see that some comics have a disclaimer for being for adults only.
I think it's interesting how this and the Hays code for movies came about around the same time. The history of media censorship is very interesting to me.
Great vid Scott! Really informative
Censorship is a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, yes I can see how restrictions breed creativity. It can force creators to be smarter in communicating their message and it can challenge audiences to think deeper about the media they're consuming.
On the other hand, censorship can be unreasonable, water down an artist's vision, and hinder freedom of speech. Artists need the freedom to create what they want in whatever form that takes because sometimes they have important things to say and it's not always palatable to modern sensibilities.
Ultimately, I think artists should only follow restrictions that they are willing to accept. In doing so, they can find a nice balance between altering content to appropriate standards and still finding the freedom to make what they want.
FrankLightheart I think that they shouldn't be censored if they don't want to be censored. I believe hiding things from kids won't do them any good. It would be better to educate them on the matter. For example guns; kids should be taught that guns aren't toys and that if you take a life. You're not only ruining your life but the lives of those that cared for the deceased. I'd rather be appalled by the full fact then be happy with half a lie.
Great video! Watching this changed my view of Wertham. I think I agree that some kind of rating system could be good. Although hopefully handled better than Hollywood. There was a movie on Netflix, I forget the name, that showed how arbitrary their process is, a handful of people in secret deciding based on their own values and no mechanism for appeals. So there could be similar problems with comics. Who decides? I guess self-regulating seems to be working for now, but if the comic industry becomes more mainstream I think a rating system is inevitable.
Eric Nunes Thanks! I hoped I could turn a few people around on Wertham.
Eric Nunes Heroism by order, senseless violence, and all the pestilent nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how I hate them! War seems to me a mean, contemptible thing: I would rather be hacked in pieces than take part in such an abominable business.
Eric Nunes My documentery, Diagram for Delinquents goes even further to complicate Wertham. Check it out if you get a chance.
Robert A. Emmons Jr. Oh hey! Awesome to see you in the comments! Yes, your documentary was immeasurably helpful with this video. Fantastic work on it! I encourage everyone to check it out if they want a more in depth look at the CCA and Fredric Wertham.
i can remember the berating I took from teachers because I liked comics. At the time I was flunking all my English, writing,and history classes. I picked up my first Wayne Boring Suprerman .... by the time of the next report card meeting the teachers told my parents I maxed all my classes (except math lol) . My teacher wanted to know what had changed. I told her I started reading Superman and ect... she could not take being wrong about the comics.
Today i encourage my grand kids to read comics because it always leads to reading other stuff.
What's important to note here is that the reading of comic books sparked my intrest in other works of literature and new things. More than once the the comics showcased events in history that I used as research to do homework assignments.
A lot of times I would ask my father how things worked and he would sarcastically tell me to "look it up". When I started doing that exact thing , he got pissed...;).
I remember reading H.G. Wells and Jules Vern after seeing the movies of their most famous stories..
When we studied these stories in Literature Class I was one up on most of the class who were "too cool" to watch the movies or read sci fi.
So comics get my vote as a legitimate form of literary education.
Take that Mrs Pomeroy.
I think your friend was right about the older cartoons. I think rules for comics help artists to write more creatively because they have to make an idea fit a certain box, but i also think that they should have the creative freedom to a point. In other words instead of blatantly putting it out there like most comics do now a days go back to the days of innuendos. That way a joke, or something that only an adult would understand would be in there, but would more than likely go over a kids head.
Wertham was like a far more "successful" Jack Thompson
Comics gave people the same concerns as video games do today
Pretty much, but in games YOU do the killing so it's worse?
thanks Scott
I just stumbled across this channel and then I see the poster behind him. I have that same poster 2 feet in front of me.
i think if people want to be subtle they should be subtle. people should be able to censor themselves
I swear, Scott, it's like you KNOW my Graphic Novels teacher, hahaha. Last semester, that's also an issue we dealt with! We talked about how the Comics Code Authority was 'bad' but it was also 'good' since it led to people being more creative [this can be positive or negative, I guess, haha]!
Ponyo V. Sounds like a wise teacher. Haha
I think that given the limitations at the time, as you said, there were some pretty creative ways writers were able to make some pretty fantastic work. Nowadays, because of the freedom comic writers have, we actually do a have a wider variety of comics. Sure, we have some gruesome and dark work liked Crossed, but we also have plenty of comics for youth, such as Gotham Academy. I think allowing more creative freedom has given writers and artists a better opportunity to create work for all age-groups, genders, and ethnic backgrounds.
To answer your question, I would say it depends on the limitations. I am for putting certain limitations on comic books, but not crazy things like most of the CCA's rules. But I can get on board with more reasonable limits
Can you do a video on "Is the amazing spider man that bad?"?
Andrew Gelinas Like, the movies?
***** Yes they are my favorits.
Andrew Gelinas I mean, I basically talked about a redeeming quality of the stories in the video about Spider-Man's parents.
***** Ok that's still good
Hmmm. I feel don't 100% censor the Comic Books but tone it down a little with the sexual and bloody panels. As well as The animated films
As someone who has been through the mental health system in Canada and still struggles with mental health issues, I can testify to the fact that comic books, video games, tv, literally any form of entertainment can affect a person in a negative way. Someone people can suffer outright delusions of grandeur and think they are a specific character, just look at the one Soap Opera actor who ended up thinking that he in his real life was his character from the show.
I once wrote down on a Sience worksheet “Subduction of The Innocent by: Dr Frederic Eartham”