The problem with Gamin's rebate plan is that they are offering $1000 to $1500 for a 430 or 530, while these units are still selling on the used market for over $5000.
Exactly. One year ago I updated my panel with a GTN 750 and more, and was going to trade in the old GNS 430, but I was not even going to get $1000, so I kept it as a backup.
Rediculous that Garmin won't support the 430/530 indefinitely. Planned obsolsecence that is profit-friendly, not pilot-friendly. A 430/530 install cost tens of thousands of dollars, and were being delivered in factory new airplanes scarcely more than 10 years ago. To now have to scrap those units for lack of manufacture parts support is obscene. The technology still exists for Garmin to make new replacement displays, which are a critical limiting part. Offering trade-ins and re-selling "junk yard" parts is kind of sketchy for the dominant avionics manufacturer. Airplanes are costly and last a long time. So should avionics. 30 years new replacement parts support from a line being discontinued might be reasonable. Not 10. You can still repair the solid old King Sliver Crown gear from the 1980s.
Avidyne already has a slide in replacement...the IFD440 and 540. I am planning to go that route. There are many pros, but being able to update the data with a standard USB memory stick is worth it.
This is the route I will probably go when my 430 dies; but so far its strong for many many years; over 10; not sure exactly how long; I would need to dig through the log books
To give pilots an idea of the age of the GNS 430/530, these units were released at the same time as Semisonic's song Closing Time. Think about the technology you used to listen to this song and what technology we have today.
Wow so many people in these comments who are experts in electronics development! Gimme a break folks. You have no idea what you're talking about. It is insanely difficult to support electronics for a 25 year lifecycle, which they've already done. They did lifetime buys at the beginning of production. That's where you buy as many parts as you'll ever get because the parts will go out of production before long. They've now started running out of parts from their lifetime buys. He said they're going to start taking used parts out of old units for crying out loud. That's taking extreme measures to try to support these things! As big as Garmin is, there's essentially no way to get a component manufacturer to restart production on 25 year old parts. Those manufacturing lines don't even exist anymore! The tooling and expertise are long gone. I'm no Garmin defender. This is just plain manufacturing reality. Maybe you're expecting them to re-engineer new systems based on parts they can get now and do retrofits but as he said, that involves a hell of a lot of engineering, STC changes and extensive validation. If you were in their position (and knew what you were talking about) you would do the same thing. You just can't throw that kind of engineering resources at supporting old products. It's not a reasonable thing to do.
I was waiting for the subject of database support to come up but it didn’t. GNS units are not very useful without updated databases so that is as important to owners to know the deadline for that, as for repair support.
Oh I am sure Garmin is very much aware of it and it's driving their decisions more than you think. Aftermarket people will keep these units going for a long time however if you don't want to go the Avidyne 440/540 drop in route. Save your money and buy Garmin stock instead.
It’s amazing how he can say they can’t figure out a way to do a slide in replacement with a straight face. As others have said here, their competitors have figured out how to do a slide in replacement of the 430. Maybe it’s a patent issue, but it’s certainly not a tech or ability issue.
In addition to the GNS 430/530.....parts for things like the older G3X systems. The little twist knob is almost impossible to come by. (Also.....wouldn't it be just swell and super safety conscious if Garmin and Cessna would allow the Skycatcher G300 to display ADS-B traffic just as the identical G3X can? This willing oversight on the part of both Garmin and Cessna baffles me to no end. No cost to do, and raises safety by 1000%. Almost criminal -- and definitely morally reprehensible -- that they willingly won't issue the software patch. Or......STC to allow installation of G3X Touch upgrades. Drop in replacement.)
@@757MrMark I havre looked at the avidyne solution ; totally plug and play; and saves thousands of dollars, and time, I like my 430, and will keep it until until I can't get it repaired; but if Avidyne can make a slide in replacement, Garmin should be able to do the same thing.
Isn't a 650 same form factor? or is there a lot of dependency that wont mesh. What Garmin should have done decades ago is have all the functionality in the main display instead of trivial functionality in a grossly overpriced secondary unit that then requires a lot of wiring and has compatibility issues. Of course Garmin likes having multiple units to milk the users much more. That you incur 30k$ installation cost on top of their overpriced multiple units is not their problem as long as you keep applauding it. Yay 1995 compute for 1985 IBM prices. If someone were to do something crazy like think rationally about it, does it really make sense to have complex maps on a tiny secondary display instead of the main display? and does it make sense to have 10inch displays when display size costs nothing today. If radio was in the main display, which of course it should be, Garmin would have far fewer units to develop. They could still maintain illusions of product differentiation to milk the different tiers. You can't just have great avionics for 3000$ in a 10 million dollar plane, no no, you need the 300k emperor's new robes.
I’m one of those who only 3/4 yrs ago, found a 430W and bit the bullet to make my aircraft IFR. Now I get a dark display screen on startup and a display fail mode message is visible on the rare occasion the screen works. I would like to get my current unit repaired but know regardless, it could fail again and the resale value is deeply affected. Not sure what direction I’ll go.
Garmin 750/650 is already 13 year old. Expect obsolescence on it as soon as the 430/430s gets taken care of. Pretty soon you'll need a new NAV-COM-GPS every year if it goes like most electronics.
Poppycock. At about 12:00 he states that it is impractical to develop drop-in replacements for these products. Really? There are 125,000 existing 430/530 installations versus, what, a few thousand new GA aircraft manufactured each year? Which is the more lucrative market opportunity?
Thanks for sharing this information with us. We acquired a 430W a couple of years ago. I obviously didn't see this coming and was disappointed when I heard about the lack of support. I will definitely attempt a better job of researching for the next avionics upgrade.
Really ? What did you think was going to happen to a product that was put to market in 1998 ? EOL (End of Life ) for many electronics, Technology in general is about 7 years. When I put my 430w in 10 years ago , I was even reluctant then , but did it knowing that eventually EOL will come. Garmin has kept that going for 25 years which in my eyes is impressive. I’ve sold technology products such as 3D printers , Laser Cutters , Robotics etc which 10 years down the road were obsolete and became EOL. Just the nature of the beast. Backwards compatibility, absolutely. I had dual G5s and a Garmin GFC AP installed 2 years ago and the fact that the 430 with old comms ( Rs232 w/9600 Baud rate ) can be interfaced to new technology is also impressive.
I have a Garmin 530W in my Arrow and would love to upgrade to a GTN. but the cost is just crazy especially when you add on the thousands of dollars to have it installed.
This is one of the reasons general aviation is declining. It's getting too expensive. I'll stick with basic VFR flying using my iphone/Ipad for navigation If my 430 radio quits I I'll install a dedicated radio or use my handheld. If I want to use my airplane for travelling and the weather looks bad I drive or go Airline. They can take their fancy avionics and stick them where the sun don't shine.
This is sad. The costs of replacing with New avionics is astronomical. At least my old steam gauges still work and easily repaired or replaced. Planned obsolescence.
It seems incredibly short sighted of Garmin to not have a slide in replacement for these navigators. They’re just giving up market share to Avidyne, who have been more than happy to fill the gap. Just bad business and shows blatant disregard for their existing customers.
I buy used avionics because I can’t afford the stratospheric prices and installation for new ones. I find good value in upgrading to a new to me avionics. If it still works and is still relevant why? Money grab?
This is complete BS. They are simply trying to buy up all the used ones to get them out of the market. This is about monopoly, not about serviceability.
I don't buy this BS for a second. Garmin is choosing to obsolete the 430.... finding a vendor to manufacture replacement screens should be a cake walk, and cheap... they simply are choosing not to do so. They did the same BS with older audio panels, choosing not to repair those. This type of sleezy behavior definately makes me think twice about putting any garmin products in my panel.
You obviously haven’t tried to build or support compute electronics. 15 years is two or three lifetimes for integrated electronic products. Try to get your 15 year old phone fixed…
@@SilvaAdventures I don't care what excuses get tossed out there. You spend 40K for new avionics, to upgrade a 40K airplane... only to find out 10 years later that your main box (the navigator) is obsolete and can't be fixed??? But it's OK because it lasted for 10 years, and by the way, they will give me 500 bucks trade in towards another 40K upgrade???? Poor planning and poor customer support. Shame on them.
Tooling up a product is incredibly expensive. We’re not talking about the screwdrivers , hammers and wrenches. Every single piece or part that makes up the Garmin 430 requires some large piece of steel to create a mold, die or, striking tool for sheet-metal for example. Tthen it requires a facility to extract material high-pressure diecast megaton press to shape the sheet metal or squeeze the plastic into the mold. This is not even including the to tool the liquid crystal displays and the wiring in the harnesses. Any one of those tools dies molds casts cost a couple hundred thousand dollars and it’s life limiting. For example, a mold may be built to spit out two years worth of parts, and then have to be replaced or pick the die for a stamping machine will have to be re-dressed, and that might only last a couple years. The economics of tooling amortizing tooling over a certain volume of parts that you can deliver to a market is complicated math if you’re trying to make it profitable. They didn’t wake up one morning and said oh I think we’re gonna shut down the 430 line so we can make a new product. It takes a lot of thought, risk assessment and economics to figure out whether or not you want to sustain a product that has less capability, non competitive, old and slow tech. Clearly they want to create a new exciting product for the market and bring better service to their customers and yes they do have to make money on it.
I'd love to take those products back. -Garmin
Translation; pull them out of the market so ppl cannot repair them. So they have to buy new ones.
The problem with Gamin's rebate plan is that they are offering $1000 to $1500 for a 430 or 530, while these units are still selling on the used market for over $5000.
Won’t be the case for long after this announcement.
Exactly. One year ago I updated my panel with a GTN 750 and more, and was going to trade in the old GNS 430, but I was not even going to get $1000, so I kept it as a backup.
EXACTLY!!!!
Currently getting the GTN750xi installed! How much longer will the 430's & 530's really be supported!
This is the danger of replacing steam gauges with glass. The cost is prohibitive for me.
Rediculous that Garmin won't support the 430/530 indefinitely. Planned obsolsecence that is profit-friendly, not pilot-friendly. A 430/530 install cost tens of thousands of dollars, and were being delivered in factory new airplanes scarcely more than 10 years ago. To now have to scrap those units for lack of manufacture parts support is obscene. The technology still exists for Garmin to make new replacement displays, which are a critical limiting part. Offering trade-ins and re-selling "junk yard" parts is kind of sketchy for the dominant avionics manufacturer. Airplanes are costly and last a long time. So should avionics. 30 years new replacement parts support from a line being discontinued might be reasonable. Not 10. You can still repair the solid old King Sliver Crown gear from the 1980s.
Avidyne already has a slide in replacement...the IFD440 and 540. I am planning to go that route. There are many pros, but being able to update the data with a standard USB memory stick is worth it.
This is the route I will probably go when my 430 dies; but so far its strong for many many years; over 10; not sure exactly how long; I would need to dig through the log books
To give pilots an idea of the age of the GNS 430/530, these units were released at the same time as Semisonic's song Closing Time. Think about the technology you used to listen to this song and what technology we have today.
Yes but the technology is still practical and relevant and useable, especially for those of us upgrading from older technology 😢
Wow so many people in these comments who are experts in electronics development! Gimme a break folks. You have no idea what you're talking about. It is insanely difficult to support electronics for a 25 year lifecycle, which they've already done. They did lifetime buys at the beginning of production. That's where you buy as many parts as you'll ever get because the parts will go out of production before long. They've now started running out of parts from their lifetime buys. He said they're going to start taking used parts out of old units for crying out loud. That's taking extreme measures to try to support these things! As big as Garmin is, there's essentially no way to get a component manufacturer to restart production on 25 year old parts. Those manufacturing lines don't even exist anymore! The tooling and expertise are long gone. I'm no Garmin defender. This is just plain manufacturing reality. Maybe you're expecting them to re-engineer new systems based on parts they can get now and do retrofits but as he said, that involves a hell of a lot of engineering, STC changes and extensive validation. If you were in their position (and knew what you were talking about) you would do the same thing. You just can't throw that kind of engineering resources at supporting old products. It's not a reasonable thing to do.
This is absolutely correct. Who make a Pentium I chip anymore?
That makes sense to me.
Exactly correct, and I deal with exactly this issue in my job.
@@kennethkatz8278 haha same
I was waiting for the subject of database support to come up but it didn’t. GNS units are not very useful without updated databases so that is as important to owners to know the deadline for that, as for repair support.
My thoughts too.
@@Cessna131 i was able to get the firmware in my garmin 430 updated last year, and continue to get the database updates through garmin;
Jusssayin, Avidyne made a drop in replacement. Maybe Garmin hasn't heard of this company, or how to "make the transition as easy as possible..." lol
Oh I am sure Garmin is very much aware of it and it's driving their decisions more than you think. Aftermarket people will keep these units going for a long time however if you don't want to go the Avidyne 440/540 drop in route. Save your money and buy Garmin stock instead.
It’s amazing how he can say they can’t figure out a way to do a slide in replacement with a straight face. As others have said here, their competitors have figured out how to do a slide in replacement of the 430. Maybe it’s a patent issue, but it’s certainly not a tech or ability issue.
In addition to the GNS 430/530.....parts for things like the older G3X systems. The little twist knob is almost impossible to come by. (Also.....wouldn't it be just swell and super safety conscious if Garmin and Cessna would allow the Skycatcher G300 to display ADS-B traffic just as the identical G3X can? This willing oversight on the part of both Garmin and Cessna baffles me to no end. No cost to do, and raises safety by 1000%. Almost criminal -- and definitely morally reprehensible -- that they willingly won't issue the software patch. Or......STC to allow installation of G3X Touch upgrades. Drop in replacement.)
Avidyne made a drop in do it’s not that hard
Plug n Play, minor tweeking
@@757MrMark I havre looked at the avidyne solution ; totally plug and play; and saves thousands of dollars, and time, I like my 430, and will keep it until until I can't get it repaired; but if Avidyne can make a slide in replacement, Garmin should be able to do the same thing.
Isn't a 650 same form factor? or is there a lot of dependency that wont mesh.
What Garmin should have done decades ago is have all the functionality in the main display instead of trivial functionality in a grossly overpriced secondary unit that then requires a lot of wiring and has compatibility issues. Of course Garmin likes having multiple units to milk the users much more. That you incur 30k$ installation cost on top of their overpriced multiple units is not their problem as long as you keep applauding it. Yay 1995 compute for 1985 IBM prices.
If someone were to do something crazy like think rationally about it, does it really make sense to have complex maps on a tiny secondary display instead of the main display? and does it make sense to have 10inch displays when display size costs nothing today.
If radio was in the main display, which of course it should be, Garmin would have far fewer units to develop. They could still maintain illusions of product differentiation to milk the different tiers. You can't just have great avionics for 3000$ in a 10 million dollar plane, no no, you need the 300k emperor's new robes.
Size is similar but the pins on the back are completely different.
I’m one of those who only 3/4 yrs ago, found a 430W and bit the bullet to make my aircraft IFR.
Now I get a dark display screen on startup and a display fail mode message is visible on the rare occasion the screen works.
I would like to get my current unit repaired but know regardless, it could fail again and the resale value is deeply affected.
Not sure what direction I’ll go.
You can contact your local Garmin Dealer and have the unit sent in for a flat-rate repair.
Garmin 750/650 is already 13 year old. Expect obsolescence on it as soon as the 430/430s gets taken care of. Pretty soon you'll need a new NAV-COM-GPS every year if it goes like most electronics.
History of avionics progression has proven you very wrong.
… and when Garmin “sunsets” the G1000 … what then? 🤔
Poppycock. At about 12:00 he states that it is impractical to develop drop-in replacements for these products. Really? There are 125,000 existing 430/530 installations versus, what, a few thousand new GA aircraft manufactured each year? Which is the more lucrative market opportunity?
The market abhors a vacuum
Thanks for sharing!
Typical marketing BS... Garmin sees a goldmine of upgrades...and AOPA is right there with them... Avidyne has a direct plug and play replacement...
Thanks for this information and we can now look at that legacy airplane to purchase and it gives us a little hope when the 430 is in the panel.
Thanks for sharing this information with us. We acquired a 430W a couple of years ago. I obviously didn't see this coming and was disappointed when I heard about the lack of support. I will definitely attempt a better job of researching for the next avionics upgrade.
Really ? What did you think was going to happen to a product that was put to market in 1998 ? EOL (End of Life ) for many electronics, Technology in general is about 7 years. When I put my 430w in 10 years ago , I was even reluctant then , but did it knowing that eventually EOL will come. Garmin has kept that going for 25 years which in my eyes is impressive. I’ve sold technology products such as 3D printers , Laser Cutters , Robotics etc which 10 years down the road were obsolete and became EOL. Just the nature of the beast. Backwards compatibility, absolutely. I had dual G5s and a Garmin GFC AP installed 2 years ago and the fact that the 430 with old comms ( Rs232 w/9600 Baud rate ) can be interfaced to new technology is also impressive.
I have a Garmin 530W in my Arrow and would love to upgrade to a GTN. but the cost is just crazy especially when you add on the thousands of dollars to have it installed.
This is one of the reasons general aviation is declining. It's getting too expensive. I'll stick with basic VFR flying using my iphone/Ipad for navigation If my 430 radio quits I I'll install a dedicated radio or use my handheld. If I want to use my airplane for travelling and the weather looks bad I drive or go Airline. They can take their fancy avionics and stick them where the sun don't shine.
This is sad. The costs of replacing with New avionics is astronomical. At least my old steam gauges still work and easily repaired or replaced. Planned obsolescence.
It seems incredibly short sighted of Garmin to not have a slide in replacement for these navigators. They’re just giving up market share to Avidyne, who have been more than happy to fill the gap. Just bad business and shows blatant disregard for their existing customers.
I buy used avionics because I can’t afford the stratospheric prices and installation for new ones. I find good value in upgrading to a new to me avionics. If it still works and is still relevant why? Money grab?
People crying that 25 year old electronics no longer supported. lol.
This is called…beating around a bush lol
This is complete BS. They are simply trying to buy up all the used ones to get them out of the market. This is about monopoly, not about serviceability.
I don't buy this BS for a second. Garmin is choosing to obsolete the 430.... finding a vendor to manufacture replacement screens should be a cake walk, and cheap... they simply are choosing not to do so. They did the same BS with older audio panels, choosing not to repair those. This type of sleezy behavior definately makes me think twice about putting any garmin products in my panel.
You obviously haven’t tried to build or support compute electronics. 15 years is two or three lifetimes for integrated electronic products. Try to get your 15 year old phone fixed…
@@SilvaAdventures I don't care what excuses get tossed out there. You spend 40K for new avionics, to upgrade a 40K airplane... only to find out 10 years later that your main box (the navigator) is obsolete and can't be fixed??? But it's OK because it lasted for 10 years, and by the way, they will give me 500 bucks trade in towards another 40K upgrade???? Poor planning and poor customer support. Shame on them.
@@MrZrryan2 it's not 10 years it's 25 years. If you're dumb enough to put $40,000 on a plane that''s only worth $40,000 then shame on you
Tooling up a product is incredibly expensive. We’re not talking about the screwdrivers , hammers and wrenches. Every single piece or part that makes up the Garmin 430 requires some large piece of steel to create a mold, die or, striking tool for sheet-metal for example. Tthen it requires a facility to extract material high-pressure diecast megaton press to shape the sheet metal or squeeze the plastic into the mold.
This is not even including the to tool the liquid crystal displays and the wiring in the harnesses.
Any one of those tools dies molds casts cost a couple hundred thousand dollars and it’s life limiting. For example, a mold may be built to spit out two years worth of parts, and then have to be replaced or pick the die for a stamping machine will have to be re-dressed, and that might only last a couple years. The economics of tooling amortizing tooling over a certain volume of parts that you can deliver to a market is complicated math if you’re trying to make it profitable.
They didn’t wake up one morning and said oh I think we’re gonna shut down the 430 line so we can make a new product. It takes a lot of thought, risk assessment and economics to figure out whether or not you want to sustain a product that has less capability, non competitive, old and slow tech. Clearly they want to create a new exciting product for the market and bring better service to their customers and yes they do have to make money on it.
@@danielreuter2565 Dude, step up to reality...you still flying with a E6B?
Garmin, backwards compatible??? 😂😂😂