Considering the amount of pressure drop a cyclone can cause, I'm quite happy to leave the big one the way it is. I only use it with the table saw and sander. And most of the sawdust piles up inside the saw, so now that I have this small one, I'll probably use that one to vacuum it out periodically so I won't have to empty the big one as often (it's a real pain to empty the big one)
Matt I just completed a similar separator and I noticed you made a inlet to the separator that would assist in swirling the dust partials You have made multiple units and I was wondering how much difference it would make to forcing the air movement up towards the side of the separator Thanks Murray
Kinda surprised you didn't make the cord out of wood. Very cool stuff. By the way, you in no small part motivated me to finally give my tools a home and I build a workbench with pegboard and plenty of shelves for just under 100 Dollars. Love the videos.
I have been contemplating doing the same thing with spare parts and motors around the shop also. As I'm sure you'll agree, figuring out and making something is the fun part, but you have given me a great foundation of ideas to try out with my design Thanks!
This is just really great. I don't understand all the physics behind the separator function, but the fusion of theory and application is truly inspiring.
Depends on demand. If enough people end up asking about plans, I may build a version 2 and draw plans. there's a few things I would do differently if I was building it again.
Matthias, in most commercial cyclones, where the vacuum goes out of the top of the cyclone, inside, it has a piece of pipe that drops downwards for a bit. If you add a piece of pipe to the bottom of the suction port, and leave a gap between it, and the baffle that is over the bucket, it may help with its performance, in that its sucking more dust into the filter. The pipe in the center of the cyclone is important, as I was taught this when I sold for American Vacuum, who make industrial systems.
Actually, shop vacs are pretty strong in terms of suction - this is where my blower is quite weak. Shopvacs have a bout 5x as much suction as my blower.
this dust seperation system is something similar to a street sweeper, at least the tymco brand, but without the regenerative air use. nicely done, cant wait to see it if and when is is working at it's full potential.
For the next completely separate project you make can you do a regular video but with another camera on a time-lapse with a clock so we can see how long it takes you to build and set up everything, that would be cool!
That furnace filter certainly isn't as good as the description makes it sound. But the most cost effective way to catch all the microparticles is to just not do any woodworking.
You should get a better air intake using ~2 or 3 inlets to make the cyclone more efficient. I'm just giving a recommendation , because I don't have a workshop like yours, and I'm just learning the physics of all this.
That is a very important part of the design. The tube should drop down about 1/3rd of the depth of the cyclone. That would increase your efficiency by quite a significant amount.
I totally agree. Ideally your trying to pull air out of a spot were the dust is least likely to be. dust will be near most surfaces of the cyclone. I made a theil type cyclone and and virtually no dust comes through to the vacuum . the only difference is I have a outgoing pipe pulling from the very middle of the cyclone
That wouldn't be practical. I don't build these all at once, ten minutes here, then let the glue dry and do something else, then get carried away on the computer, etc. And it would be impossible to capture, because I move around the shop.
Matias,take a trip down to somewhere that has a commercial model & ask to take a closer look. I agree that the rectangle needs to be larger, but I also think you are missing a piece- a directional stick inside or attached to the rectangle that directs shavings/ particles directly down, so that your suction remains strong. Go take a look...
Also, is the spring holding the lever under the bucket strong enough to hold a bucket full of saw dust? I suppose if it is not, that could be your warning you need to empty the bucket.
I love to see the wonderful detail you go through to build your projects. They are definitely not done in a haphazard way. I was wondering if the depth of your outtake hose may be in or too high for optimum withdrawal of the cleaned air? What if there were a funnel shaped cyclone ring in the centre to ease the cyclonic action before it picked up the cleaned air. Just silly thought LOL
The constriction on the inlet - that constriction only adds about half as much air resistance as the 2.5" hose I'm using. But I ended up opening up that constriction slightly, because I was spinning up the cyclone too fast, and the centrifugal force caused too much back pressure. More about that in my next video.
I think most of us have single stage dc's similar to your large unit, have you ever considered converting it to a cyclone that may be more efficient than a typical trash can separator?
I notice you sped up the video when sucking up the sawdust from the floor but the separator sound doesn't increase in pitch. Did you leave the sound from the regular speed but show the video from speeding it up?
es muy bueno un amigo lo iso a una escala superior deacuerdo a este video y resulto ahora ademas de recoger el polvo de tres maquinas ase el aseo de todo su taller con mas manguera extencible es formidable y solo lo iso con un motor que tenia de un esmeril viejo te felicito muy buena idea y sale barato hacerlo . hojala sigas enseñando asi muchas gracias gran aporte
Well you can get descent HEPA filters on Ebay or similar places, even HEPA furnace filters. If you get need a HEPA filter size of one square foot of filter surface to every 2 CFM of air flow. If you want to make a basic upgrade on your system, you can redo the bends to a standart minimum 2½ times bend radius to the pipe diameter and avoid mitered bends at all cost.
nice job . 1.i think you are restricting the inlet, generally the area of the rectangle should be 15+% larger than the area of the round pipe. 2.if you put a section of pipe going down into the chamber from the outlet. this would allow the air to spin round the pipe ,without it the air can get sucked up before it spins round. 3.you over powered the seperater with the pile of dust. in normal use you wouldnt create that much dust doing any normal woodworking task. looking good thow
Have you experimented with the geometry? Maybe a larger chamber will give better results as centrifugal force increases with diameter? Maybe you can try to increase the slope of the chamber as the dust goes down into the chamber. As centrifugal force increases and the inertia of the dust causes it towant to stay going in the same direction it might get sucked down even more if the curvature of the chamber decreases as it goes down.
not sure if this is too old for you to be reading comments any longer. I've watched all your dust extractor videos, so I'm probably muddling their designs together in my mind. I was however wondering whether a spiral baffle within the cyclone would help flow, and prevent the back pressure effect. the spiral would only need to be one or two turns, and an easy experiment I suspect. the flow would therefore be more likely to remain laminar, and as the air progressed through the spiral the radius would progressively be decreasing, with hopefully roughly the same air flow. the centrifugal force should therefore increase towards the centre, and therefore separate progressively finer dust. the bottom of the spiral would presumably have to remain open, and the dust perhaps drop onto a cone shape, or slope, to allow it settle towards the collection slot you have at the rim. or perhaps have the spiral closed top and bottom, and have the collection hole in the centre bottom, where the dust would settle after being swept round. .... or perhaps no bottom would be needed at all, since the direction of flow would keep the air within the upper half of the spiral, slowing, and dropping the dust, in the bottom half.... ??
The transition pipe (currently on top) may need more volume for air to move. If the pipe were greater distance up as well a larger inside area, the particulate would slow down more, thus the vacuum wouldnt be drawing the dust to the filter.
I think the problem with collecting from the thickness planer is the size of the shavings and the large amount of the shavings - the big curly bits build up and clog my dust collector - it’s very frustrating. Maybe you should invent a shavings extractor.
I have lost some good colleges over the years in this manner and it is not a pretty way to go! You will loose some heat in the winter if you pump the air outside, but that is better than loosing your life in a nasty coughing death. Otherwise build a good floor standing cyclone with a 3-5Hp blower and make your entire operation suck all over and get good separation inn the 1-3 micron size particles also. That way you don't hurt your safety filter either.
*SINCE PROVEN WRONG IN THE COMMENTS, IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAY* Hey mattias, and anyone looking to make this, don't make the injector nozzle thinner to 'spin the air around faster' because the air is being sucked from inside the cyclone, therefore making the hole smaller just slows down airspeed. It would only work if the air was being blown into the nozzle, not sucked into! Otherwise awesome vid!
I'm not sure about that. The air flow is dictated by the fan, the faster the fan spins the more air is blown out. And the outflow must be equal to the inflow while running, so reducing the inlet size does force the air to accelerate (with the same rate of flow, but less space to go through, the air speed is faster). But the faster air should increase the effiency of the cyclone ! But i'm not sure of that. (it depends on what increase the most with the air speed, the centrifugal effect or the buoyancy, ask dyson lol)
I believe that the air does not care if it is being sucked or blown. (phrasing) Either way, it is moving from a high pressure area to a low pressure area, so its behavior would be the same.
Also that bracket you have on the bottom is messing with a smooth air flow, i have not seen that on any thiel designs. most have a suport from above to keep the inner circle supported
Since the problem you have with back pressure seems to come from air velocity and not volume why not try eliminating the reducer on your intake. Wouldn't this increase volume while dropping pressure? On commercial units the intake is not restricted so that would seem to indicate that volume is greater at lower speeds. I mean seriously just how strong does the centrifugal force need to be to work, maybe increasing the length of the separator will offset the reduction in velocity.
Being that this is 3 years old, someone has probably mentioned this....the air filter is in backwards. The steel mesh should be on the back side for support. There are little arrows on the side of the filter to tell you which way the air flow should be,
Great designing and good work but take it from some who has to wear hearing aids. Wear your ear protection! Please! If you don't you will loose your hearing and not know its gone until you don't have it anymore.
Considering the amount of pressure drop a cyclone can cause, I'm quite happy to leave the big one the way it is. I only use it with the table saw and sander. And most of the sawdust piles up inside the saw, so now that I have this small one, I'll probably use that one to vacuum it out periodically so I won't have to empty the big one as often (it's a real pain to empty the big one)
Matt I just completed a similar separator and I noticed you made a inlet to the separator that would assist in swirling the dust partials
You have made multiple units and I was wondering how much difference it would make to forcing the air movement up towards the side of the separator
Thanks Murray
This sure is one of the smartest guys on youtube. Been watching all of his videos for the last months. Amazing.
Kinda surprised you didn't make the cord out of wood. Very cool stuff. By the way, you in no small part motivated me to finally give my tools a home and I build a workbench with pegboard and plenty of shelves for just under 100 Dollars. Love the videos.
The buckets I use are translucent, and I can see how much dust is in there just by looking at it.
I have been contemplating doing the same thing with spare parts and motors around the shop also. As I'm sure you'll agree, figuring out and making something is the fun part, but you have given me a great foundation of ideas to try out with my design Thanks!
This is just really great. I don't understand all the physics behind the separator function, but the fusion of theory and application is truly inspiring.
Depends on demand. If enough people end up asking about plans, I may build a version 2 and draw plans. there's a few things I would do differently if I was building it again.
I really like that oldschool "machine green" you paint your awesome constructions with.
I came across your videos the other day and i love watching them because it is so cool to see what you come up with! Keep up the good work!!
Matthias, in most commercial cyclones, where the vacuum goes out of the top of the cyclone, inside, it has a piece of pipe that drops downwards for a bit. If you add a piece of pipe to the bottom of the suction port, and leave a gap between it, and the baffle that is over the bucket, it may help with its performance, in that its sucking more dust into the filter. The pipe in the center of the cyclone is important, as I was taught this when I sold for American Vacuum, who make industrial systems.
The nice thing about building one of those, you can be sure it sucks, one way or another!
I like that it is much quieter then the shop vac. Great work.
Actually, shop vacs are pretty strong in terms of suction - this is where my blower is quite weak. Shopvacs have a bout 5x as much suction as my blower.
No plans for this one. I'm not sure if mine is optimal.
Молодец парняга, дешево и сердито. И аккуратно.
Could you make a Mostly wooden go cart? with wooden wheels and gears, I think that would be a cool little project! Awesome dust collector!
this dust seperation system is something similar to a street sweeper, at least the tymco brand, but without the regenerative air use. nicely done, cant wait to see it if and when is is working at it's full potential.
For the next completely separate project you make can you do a regular video but with another camera on a time-lapse with a clock so we can see how long it takes you to build and set up everything, that would be cool!
I'm limited by how much suction I have. A smaller hose has more air resistance, so I'd get substantially less airflow.
That furnace filter certainly isn't as good as the description makes it sound. But the most cost effective way to catch all the microparticles is to just not do any woodworking.
Absolutely brilliant work. Thanks Mr. Wandel.
Nice to see another woodworker who works in his shop in moccasins. :-D
This is not just wood working, this is more, is wood engineering.
You should get a better air intake using ~2 or 3 inlets to make the cyclone more efficient. I'm just giving a recommendation , because I don't have a workshop like yours, and I'm just learning the physics of all this.
A cone is always better, but it takes up way more space.
That is a very important part of the design. The tube should drop down about 1/3rd of the depth of the cyclone. That would increase your efficiency by quite a significant amount.
Matthias, you are wonderfull in her projects! Example for our hobby. Álvaro.
I find I amazing that you came up with that simple/complex design
Watch my video on characterizing the cyclone. The filter has almost no air resistance.
Молодец и с руками и с головой!
I totally agree. Ideally your trying to pull air out of a spot were the dust is least likely to be. dust will be near most surfaces of the cyclone. I made a theil type cyclone and and virtually no dust comes through to the vacuum . the only difference is I have a outgoing pipe pulling from the very middle of the cyclone
I like his stuff so much man. he i one of the intelligents that the world needs
That is some nice fitting work. Well done.
That wouldn't be practical. I don't build these all at once, ten minutes here, then let the glue dry and do something else, then get carried away on the computer, etc. And it would be impossible to capture, because I move around the shop.
Matias,take a trip down to somewhere that has a commercial model & ask to take a closer look. I agree that the rectangle needs to be larger, but I also think you are missing a piece- a directional stick inside or attached to the rectangle that directs shavings/ particles directly down, so that your suction remains strong. Go take a look...
What do yo do with all the saw dust / other woody debris you gather over time? Throw it away? Burn it? Toss it in the woods?
Also, is the spring holding the lever under the bucket strong enough to hold a bucket full of saw dust? I suppose if it is not, that could be your warning you need to empty the bucket.
Let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that Matthias here basically just built a vacuum cleaner out of wood.
Are there going to be plans available to buy for this? Looks great!
I love to see the wonderful detail you go through to build your projects. They are definitely not done in a haphazard way. I was wondering if the depth of your outtake hose may be in or too high for optimum withdrawal of the cleaned air? What if there were a funnel shaped cyclone ring in the centre to ease the cyclonic action before it picked up the cleaned air. Just silly thought LOL
The constriction on the inlet - that constriction only adds about half as much air resistance as the 2.5" hose I'm using. But I ended up opening up that constriction slightly, because I was spinning up the cyclone too fast, and the centrifugal force caused too much back pressure. More about that in my next video.
IS THERE NOTHING YOU CAN'T DO? AMAZING WORK!
I think most of us have single stage dc's similar to your large unit, have you ever considered converting it to a cyclone that may be more efficient than a typical trash can separator?
You are about to hit 800,000 subscribers good job keep up the awesome work
today there are 861,943 sub :)
OMG only 1 year past, and now 1.3 million Wow
Hi, I live in Brazil.
Nice job.
Do you sell the cyclone plans ?
That's a great idea - I'd never thought of doing that!
You're the Bob Ross of wood working.
What kind of shop-vacs do you use!? They must be soooo loud if that little vacuum is "quiet" compared to one!
Hello
I really enjoy watching your videos.
Just one thing, I can't find the other dust extractor videos.
Always one step ahead, as usual.
I notice you sped up the video when sucking up the sawdust from the floor but the separator sound doesn't increase in pitch. Did you leave the sound from the regular speed but show the video from speeding it up?
Nobody was born with all the knowledge in the world-nothing shameful about being new to something. :)
es muy bueno un amigo lo iso a una escala superior deacuerdo a este video y resulto ahora ademas de recoger el polvo de tres maquinas ase el aseo de todo su taller con mas manguera extencible es formidable y solo lo iso con un motor que tenia de un esmeril viejo te felicito muy buena idea y sale barato hacerlo . hojala sigas enseñando asi muchas gracias gran aporte
Gotta start somewhere.
Well you can get descent HEPA filters on Ebay or similar places, even HEPA furnace filters.
If you get need a HEPA filter size of one square foot of filter surface to every 2 CFM of air flow.
If you want to make a basic upgrade on your system, you can redo the bends to a standart minimum 2½ times bend radius to the pipe diameter and avoid mitered bends at all cost.
nice job .
1.i think you are restricting the inlet, generally the area of the rectangle should be 15+% larger than the area of the round pipe.
2.if you put a section of pipe going down into the chamber from the outlet. this would allow the air to spin round the pipe ,without it the air can get sucked up before it spins round.
3.you over powered the seperater with the pile of dust. in normal use you wouldnt create that much dust doing any normal woodworking task.
looking good thow
Have you experimented with the geometry? Maybe a larger chamber will give better results as centrifugal force increases with diameter? Maybe you can try to increase the slope of the chamber as the dust goes down into the chamber. As centrifugal force increases and the inertia of the dust causes it towant to stay going in the same direction it might get sucked down even more if the curvature of the chamber decreases as it goes down.
You should cut a slot in the side of the bucket and glue in a small, clear plastic 'window' so you can see when the bin is full.
not sure if this is too old for you to be reading comments any longer. I've watched all your dust extractor videos, so I'm probably muddling their designs together in my mind. I was however wondering whether a spiral baffle within the cyclone would help flow, and prevent the back pressure effect. the spiral would only need to be one or two turns, and an easy experiment I suspect. the flow would therefore be more likely to remain laminar, and as the air progressed through the spiral the radius would progressively be decreasing, with hopefully roughly the same air flow. the centrifugal force should therefore increase towards the centre, and therefore separate progressively finer dust. the bottom of the spiral would presumably have to remain open, and the dust perhaps drop onto a cone shape, or slope, to allow it settle towards the collection slot you have at the rim. or perhaps have the spiral closed top and bottom, and have the collection hole in the centre bottom, where the dust would settle after being swept round. .... or perhaps no bottom would be needed at all, since the direction of flow would keep the air within the upper half of the spiral, slowing, and dropping the dust, in the bottom half.... ??
if you believe that, do the experiment.
NEXT video --> building the UFO :D
Great Job :)
Well, if it blows, that would really suck!
The transition pipe (currently on top) may need more volume for air to move. If the pipe were greater distance up as well a larger inside area, the particulate would slow down more, thus the vacuum wouldnt be drawing the dust to the filter.
I'm looking forward to your next video.
I think the problem with collecting from the thickness planer is the size of the shavings and the large amount of the shavings - the big curly bits build up and clog my dust collector - it’s very frustrating. Maybe you should invent a shavings extractor.
I have lost some good colleges over the years in this manner and it is not a pretty way to go!
You will loose some heat in the winter if you pump the air outside, but that is better than loosing your life in a nasty coughing death.
Otherwise build a good floor standing cyclone with a 3-5Hp blower and make your entire operation suck all over and get good separation inn the 1-3 micron size particles also. That way you don't hurt your safety filter either.
*SINCE PROVEN WRONG IN THE COMMENTS, IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAY*
Hey mattias, and anyone looking to make this, don't make the injector nozzle thinner to 'spin the air around faster' because the air is being sucked from inside the cyclone, therefore making the hole smaller just slows down airspeed. It would only work if the air was being blown into the nozzle, not sucked into!
Otherwise awesome vid!
I'm not sure about that.
The air flow is dictated by the fan, the faster the fan spins the more air is blown out. And the outflow must be equal to the inflow while running, so reducing the inlet size does force the air to accelerate (with the same rate of flow, but less space to go through, the air speed is faster).
But the faster air should increase the effiency of the cyclone ! But i'm not sure of that. (it depends on what increase the most with the air speed, the centrifugal effect or the buoyancy, ask dyson lol)
I believe that the air does not care if it is being sucked or blown. (phrasing) Either way, it is moving from a high pressure area to a low pressure area, so its behavior would be the same.
yes, now a year later, I can see just how wrong I was, I'll be deleting the comment! thanks for correcting me!
good it means you have learned something ! Maybe let it be so other can learn too ?
Why not make a deeper baffle chamber and use a conical baffle so debris is guided to the edge to fall though to the bucket (and use a narrower gap)?
Maybe you should make the hose a bit smaller in diameter so it has a bit more power when sucking stuff up
Great video as always.
you are truly impressive.Canadian too eh?
Also that bracket you have on the bottom is messing with a smooth air flow, i have not seen that on any thiel designs. most have a suport from above to keep the inner circle supported
do you work for dyson?
This guy! He is so cool!
Since the problem you have with back pressure seems to come from air velocity and not volume why not try eliminating the reducer on your intake. Wouldn't this increase volume while dropping pressure? On commercial units the intake is not restricted so that would seem to indicate that volume is greater at lower speeds. I mean seriously just how strong does the centrifugal force need to be to work, maybe increasing the length of the separator will offset the reduction in velocity.
what are the Db readings of this and the shop vac?
Being that this is 3 years old, someone has probably mentioned this....the air filter is in backwards. The steel mesh should be on the back side for support. There are little arrows on the side of the filter to tell you which way the air flow should be,
You are delightful to watch. Kuddos!
But I didn't steal the slippers!
Amazing ! Very helpful.
Eres genial, haces cada cosa
Wow matthias i like! please make sketchup plan of this one i want buy it!! PLEASE!!!
Why you have the middle hole to leva air out ?
Are you a shop teacher? If you're not you should be. You have all your fingers, I never had a shop teacher with all his digits.
You are the BEST!!!!
Instead of covering it in green paint, you should have covered it in Leaf's stickers. Then it has the added bonus of never losing suction
great job!
covek je genije
You need not clog the filter by trying to move the Entire stream of particles through it! You can mesh some Directly into the bucket.
"soo it should just go round and round like crazy" haha
i love ur accent
Wow. Very cool.
Thank you as always.
Great designing and good work but take it from some who has to wear hearing aids. Wear your ear protection! Please! If you don't you will loose your hearing and not know its gone until you don't have it anymore.
Maybe your collector supposed to hold less dust? Then it would be 100% good?
Good idea. I will use same solution ;-)
Coolest nerd ever!
quas hay minh lam cung sap xong cai hut bui roi thank nhe,
Why not just use a vaccume clenaer?
That would be too easy.
Vacuums are too loud and less efficient.
Молодец!!!
you are genius
too cool!