The best character that never wins

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  • Опубліковано 22 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 349

  • @turndownforwalt
    @turndownforwalt  Рік тому +88

    Thank you INTO THE AM for these Elevated Everyday Graphic Tees! Get yours now and get 10% off site-wide when you click the link below: intotheam.com/WALT

  • @huyphan7825
    @huyphan7825 Рік тому +407

    The biggest takeaway I'm getting from this video is that Hbox deserves to be on the Melee tier as his own character.

    • @mups4016
      @mups4016 11 місяців тому +73

      if hbox didn't play, jigglypuff wouldn't be top tier.

    • @nixomega8056
      @nixomega8056 6 місяців тому +40

      ​@@mups4016 Same thing with Amsa Yoshi

    • @dorktriogamer2865
      @dorktriogamer2865 6 місяців тому +6

      I mean... He is practically 😅 not kuch of a difference

    • @lagg1e
      @lagg1e 5 місяців тому +19

      It's true. If Jigglypuff was judged by the second best performer, they would be mid tier at best.

    • @bluedistortions
      @bluedistortions 5 місяців тому

      Hbox is on the melee tier list as his own character. Jigglepoof. Same for Amsa and Dinosaur lad.

  • @namenamename390
    @namenamename390 Рік тому +611

    8:24 I've seen this a number of times and I just can't get over M2K's sheer confusion as to why any Fox would ever voluntarily go to FD against him. I love M2K so much

    • @Davidian_
      @Davidian_ Рік тому +61

      He counterpicked the King to his own castle

    • @hyperssr
      @hyperssr Рік тому +18

      I believe Cody has a theory about counter picking Marths to FD. Something about winning there early to remove it.
      But at that time SFAT was experimenting with the FD counterpick

    • @YURTZYN42
      @YURTZYN42 11 місяців тому +7

      It's to soak up a loss earlier in the set so the Marth doesn't use it later to swing the set over basically.

    • @KeshavKrishnan
      @KeshavKrishnan 6 місяців тому +2

      @@YURTZYN42this makes no sense tho. You just give up a favorable map for no reason. If u manage to win on fd... The Marth can pick it again.

    • @johnathanbickford8212
      @johnathanbickford8212 5 місяців тому +2

      There's a clip simular to this where Amsa pulls out a secondary Falco against Hbox's jiggly puff. Hbox's reaction is priceless.

  • @trueblueryu5713
    @trueblueryu5713 Рік тому +1071

    Hypothetically speaking: If Armada was terrible at fighting Sheik rather than being amazing at the matchup, how much do we think that would have changed the history of the character?

    • @scarlet7960
      @scarlet7960 Рік тому +18

      dude imagine ....

    • @devoncampbell3607
      @devoncampbell3607 Рік тому +384

      Unfortunately, armada had two brothers who just so happened to be very good sheik players.

    • @blakerey4790
      @blakerey4790 Рік тому +239

      @@devoncampbell3607 *brudders

    • @yungrav_y
      @yungrav_y Рік тому +9

      @@blakerey4790 💀

    • @devoncampbell3607
      @devoncampbell3607 Рік тому +79

      @@blakerey4790 I concede that "brudders" is the proper title.

  • @ajuicejemas
    @ajuicejemas Рік тому +245

    The part about how your main in a fighting game is more than just a collection of matchup charts and frame data was really great

    • @Belive7heHype
      @Belive7heHype Рік тому +3

      So they aren't just functions after all lol

  • @Jmook11
    @Jmook11 Рік тому +779

    TURN UP FOR WALT
    Seriously, this is phenomenal work. Thank you for putting this together

    • @joshf1170
      @joshf1170 Рік тому +4

      Loving watching your come-up man!

    • @fwop7436
      @fwop7436 Рік тому +6

      Bro you're changing the course of melee history. Keep doing what you love, it's inspiring 🙏

    • @Darko-Vs
      @Darko-Vs Рік тому +1

      Amsah won ESA2 with solo shiek as a major right ?

    • @Jay_Playz2019
      @Jay_Playz2019 11 місяців тому

      It’s the guy! He did the thing!

    • @luf4rall
      @luf4rall 9 місяців тому

      Mooook

  • @Jaknife101
    @Jaknife101 Рік тому +87

    I can imagine hbox laughing his ass off at the cut to his pop off faint during the start of the explanation of him being the sheik slayer.

  • @theomorrison1099
    @theomorrison1099 Рік тому +34

    We have 2 swedish sheik mains to blame for this. Armada's brothers were both sheik mains which made him cracked at the matchup

  • @statisticallysound
    @statisticallysound Рік тому +66

    13:05 brb, this montage got me so hype I had to rewatch the Jmook G8 run

    • @AP-gb3pq
      @AP-gb3pq Рік тому +6

      dude same LOL, it was so good

  • @theftking
    @theftking Рік тому +72

    I played competitive melee locally back in 2006, and yeah Sheik was top tier, but even back then I remember people talking about how Fox had the most potential. Funny how it all played out.

  • @miguelaguilar5115
    @miguelaguilar5115 Рік тому +105

    Gotta be honest, I love the tournamente recaps and previsions to death, but it was because of video essays like this that I subbed to Walt's channel

  • @averagewhiteguy2
    @averagewhiteguy2 Рік тому +30

    I had been waiting for a very long time for a solo Sheik main to win a major (and especially a super major). I'm so happy it happened. Sheik really needed that win, and I hope more people pick her up.

  • @TrucidOL8R
    @TrucidOL8R Рік тому +99

    Amazing work. Thank you Walt and Jackie Peanuts for telling this particular story so beautifully ❤

  • @eddiestilll
    @eddiestilll Рік тому +37

    everyone knew when they saw jmook's sudden breakout in 2022 that if a player could win a supermajor with solo sheik, it'd be him :)

  • @DesTr069
    @DesTr069 Рік тому +13

    Dude the EDITING. And the MUSIC. And the WRITING. This is it, Walt, wow, that was absolutely fantastic

  • @throwod2923
    @throwod2923 Рік тому +37

    Just wanted to say the way you animate the games with the free camera or whatever is so cool I love it. I don’t know if it’s hard or takes a lot of time or whatever but I just want you to know it is really really enjoyable and I appreciate it ❤

  • @THEFEZFEZ
    @THEFEZFEZ Рік тому +38

    Love the bigger documentary content. I'm sure this takes a lot more time and effort to make, but I greatly appreciate it.

  • @Rockleefan3
    @Rockleefan3 Рік тому +25

    2:40 kudos to hbox for staying solo for how long? 16 years? In all this time he could’ve picked up a secondary for fox, but no no, he stayed stubborn and still got the status of being one of the 3 goats of melee. From my spectator perspective it’s seems extremely hard to solo puff, similar to solo sheik, but then again, what do I know, I’m just a spectator.

    • @NukaColaBear
      @NukaColaBear Рік тому +6

      Hungrybox has tried a secondary fox. It did not go well.
      Hbox is really good but so far he's only been able to do it with Jiggs, if he could pull it off with another character he would have a secondary at least.

    • @finnpeterson4335
      @finnpeterson4335 2 місяці тому

      @@NukaColaBear I don't think that it's necessarily that he can't pull it off, he is a generational player. I think it's moreso that he doesn't want to pick up a secondary, be it for pride or whatever other reason.

    • @NukaColaBear
      @NukaColaBear 2 місяці тому

      @@finnpeterson4335 Hungrybox stated multiple times he didn't have the ability to do it with anyone but puff. Not a knock on him, good on him for knowing his own strengths & weaknesses.

  • @meleeludens
    @meleeludens 4 місяці тому +3

    13:20 i was so confused by the music bc im just listening on my phone at work, i thought i must’ve gotten a Black Ops 6 ad or something 💀 and i have youtube premium too

  • @ComboSmooth
    @ComboSmooth Рік тому +22

    wow, jiggly got 41 major wins and its like 1% mango, 99% hungry box.

  • @Jayluna98
    @Jayluna98 Рік тому +16

    The intro edit with you on Pokemon Stadium while Jmook did his combo was so sweet

  • @rowanespeverda4120
    @rowanespeverda4120 Рік тому +10

    That “Outside” Remix for the Genesis 8 run was fucking fantastic. I’d love it as a solo video.

  • @unovi8141
    @unovi8141 Рік тому +9

    Production values off the charts! I'd love to see more stuff like this!

  • @terrortaste6389
    @terrortaste6389 Рік тому +33

    One thing I find very interesting about smash, as well as other fighting game communities as a whole, is that most competitive and even casual players all want to play really _really_ aggressively. Almost all of the players want to go in and hit hard and fast while the reaction based playstyles are few and far between. It feels like no one has the discipline to stop pressing buttons and just watch and wait for your opponent to screw up on their own.
    It also makes sense that no one would find this playstyle viable since theoretically this kind of playstyle won't work at high levels where people make fewer and fewer mistakes. This makes it all the more satisfying and _terrifying_ when a player arises who can play that way and take advantage of everything their opponent does.

    • @Appletank8
      @Appletank8 Рік тому +13

      Technically, HBox played pretty defensively for a long while, using Puff’s superior aerial mobility to bait people into chasing him and punishing. Floaters fighting each other in general were prone to long games or timeouts. But this also looks like stalling and made people really pissed at the “lame” tactics, especially since Melee has a few techniques that give an unbalanced advantage to the defensive player, like ledge stalling immunity. It is technically possible for someone to get a % lead then stall forever. Anti stall rules didn’t really exist for a long time because most players, as you mentioned, like being aggressive and cool more than floating around and running away. Which did result in people, mainly Leffen, being pretty salty and proposing anti stall rules that were basically targeted against Puff.

  • @TylerHyperFace
    @TylerHyperFace Рік тому +4

    LOVE the edits and structure of these. It's also insane that Hbox is such a force to manage the meta the way he did! 🔥 Melee is dope ❤

  • @nsanity4624
    @nsanity4624 Рік тому +2

    I love the fact you have your own merch, but I love the Zoolander references even more. Much love king.

  • @TheThiccestChungus
    @TheThiccestChungus Рік тому +226

    So what I'm hearing...
    is that every single character specialist has a backup fox for hungrybox and hungrybox alone.

    • @iceninjagames
      @iceninjagames Рік тому +15

      Odd username but you would be correct

    • @connorhulegaard2012
      @connorhulegaard2012 11 місяців тому +12

      Yeah Hbox got that big heavy. GOATed imo

    • @aetherius6221
      @aetherius6221 10 місяців тому +2

      Amsa doesn't, does Axe?

    • @noinfo1018
      @noinfo1018 8 місяців тому +5

      @aetherius6221 iirc amsa has played falco against hbox before. Not sure about axe tho

    • @aetherius6221
      @aetherius6221 8 місяців тому +5

      @@noinfo1018 pretty sure Axe has a Marth secondary for some like 80/20 MU

  • @RobertHuang
    @RobertHuang Рік тому +13

    8:59 "all with solo sheik" zelda clip

  • @Parthian6
    @Parthian6 Рік тому +3

    3:26 Yoooo where are my fellow Artemis Fowl fans at?
    I never expected to hear Walt out of all people mention this goated series but I'm here for it.

  • @Eiji475
    @Eiji475 Рік тому +7

    I'll always remember the Amsah vs EK reverse 4 stock. One of the moments that made me want to play Sheik.

    • @KeyboardKlutz_0
      @KeyboardKlutz_0 Рік тому +5

      Apparently that was also a major, which Amsah won.

  • @brettmccabe1944
    @brettmccabe1944 Рік тому +3

    Another turndownforwalt masterpiece. Excellent video-- I thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish!

  • @Swordfish_
    @Swordfish_ 7 місяців тому +9

    Sheik would be nothing without Zelda's down b

  • @tenderhoof2988
    @tenderhoof2988 Рік тому +4

    Super pumped for content like this!

  • @raradapapa
    @raradapapa Рік тому

    I am honestly so happy that you make documentaries for literally the greatest esport that has ever existed. Thanks, Walt :)

  • @BaronBears
    @BaronBears Рік тому

    Walt, you outdone yourself this time! You have a real talent for documentary making - combined with your passion, it gives me real hope that the smash community will be around for a long time to come. Ive seen documentaries that cost millions that were significantly worse than the incredible work youve been putting out there. Youre an absolute legend.

  • @nobodysbusinezz
    @nobodysbusinezz Рік тому +2

    you the man. I love your stuff, Walt. never stop doing your thing.

  • @DubYuhGChoppa
    @DubYuhGChoppa Рік тому +25

    It's sad that it took so long for people to actually acknowledge what this character can do. Sheik is quite obviously an amazing character but it takes a lot more than what M2K was ever willing to do and he defined Sheik for a long time. Now the meta is finally growing past these people who wouldn't do what was needed.

  • @roblikestoskate
    @roblikestoskate Рік тому +1

    i love the custom camera angles on the in-game reenactments

  • @1_random_commenter
    @1_random_commenter 9 місяців тому +2

    This man just casually dropped the greatest Melee montage of all time at 13:05

  • @thomasa4749
    @thomasa4749 Рік тому +1

    Amazing video, the melee community is as strong as ever and you love to see it

  • @TheAmazingMrSloop
    @TheAmazingMrSloop Рік тому +1

    Thank you for this incredible video Walt!

  • @nuave
    @nuave Рік тому +9

    I don't know why, but I feel like for Melee to prosper it needs to progress into a new era. Not just in the game, the players, the TO's. But the community. It needs to come back together and focus on the game, and in some way I feel like this is a step towards that.

  • @christophergeorge3642
    @christophergeorge3642 Рік тому +4

    another banger, Walt

  • @namechild
    @namechild Рік тому

    your content is so unbelievably high quality

  • @Natnizer
    @Natnizer Рік тому +1

    Been watching for a while and enjoyed all your content; this video was excellent. You have one more subscriber.

  • @Gender_Ascender
    @Gender_Ascender Рік тому +3

    ARTEMIS FOWL MENTIONED!
    Wild to hear that reference from someone in the melee scene, damn lol

  • @nolascoyanco5831
    @nolascoyanco5831 6 місяців тому +1

    23:38
    "He quit Starbucks for this!"

  • @Quinchi413
    @Quinchi413 Рік тому

    this editing style and bits is just amazing :) you are doing great and keep it up :D

  • @KingCuba
    @KingCuba Рік тому

    Standing ovation for your ad…..
    I’ll repeat that, as it’s never been said before in the history of the English language. Here’s a standing ovation for your Ad!
    It 2:10 was awesome. Wow, those words feel weird, even typing it it out is strange….. anyway, cool vid lol

  • @azazeltf2
    @azazeltf2 Рік тому

    great video, great editing. especially love the little jmook genesis frag video in there lol

  • @cocalicoman
    @cocalicoman Рік тому +2

    That ad read was amazing

  • @6.28
    @6.28 Рік тому +1

    this is absurdly well made, bravo

  • @lf3boss
    @lf3boss Рік тому

    Great video, your production quality only continues to reach new heights

  • @stefanow.9047
    @stefanow.9047 Рік тому

    absolutely dope video walt bro keep up the amazing work

  • @Afatdragon
    @Afatdragon Рік тому

    These videos are so well put together always a highlight. Thank you Walt.

  • @connorr4183
    @connorr4183 Рік тому +1

    Walt this is such a great video. Shoutouts for the sick content

  • @JeramiJoseph
    @JeramiJoseph Рік тому +1

    amazingly done as always walt

  • @chasemcfarland2851
    @chasemcfarland2851 11 місяців тому +2

    I have a feeling that those 41 Jigglypuff wins were all just Hbox

  • @jeffreychen2099
    @jeffreychen2099 Рік тому +2

    The Artemis Fowl reference awakened a core memory in me

  • @radiantrepose6512
    @radiantrepose6512 Рік тому

    The editing is so good thanks for the great watch!

  • @Hack--rz1io
    @Hack--rz1io Рік тому

    This was great, the in game camera movements had me particularly impressed !

  • @TheSpaceOpera
    @TheSpaceOpera Рік тому

    Production on this is insane - awesome video

  • @musicmashups
    @musicmashups Рік тому +14

    Now the question is: can Jmook become the first solo Shiek to get #1 on the rankings?

    • @jman3l
      @jman3l Рік тому +1

      If he takes BoBC5 I think its pretty much a wrap for #1 in 2023 for him.

    • @musicmashups
      @musicmashups Рік тому +3

      @@jman3l I have a feeling Zain takes BOBC5, he's had two 2nd places in a row there and has been edging a tournament victory ever since Lud's, so this feels like the time for him. But Jmook is also attending Tipped Off, Wavedash, and CEO, so he just needs to win one of those and his #1 for the 1st half is secured.

    • @jman3l
      @jman3l Рік тому

      Ah idk dude.. he is looking sort of unstoppable when he is playing hot. Even when he isn't playing 100% he clutches everything out anyway (SFOP/SFAT sets). When he is 100% he makes everyone look like a fool 😆. Only hbox can beat him right now and even then it's a toss up. Jmook got better at puff/Juan match-up.

    • @musicmashups
      @musicmashups Рік тому

      @@jman3l we'll see, Cody's beaten him this year, Amsa and Hbox are still bracket demons, and Zain was even in sets with Jmook before this year, so it's not far fetched to say he can take the next one. I do think Jmook wins Tipped Off though, especially since Hbox isn't registered to attend, so his only bracket demon there is Amsa and he'll probably get knocked out by Moky and Cody.

  • @sewerdork6183
    @sewerdork6183 Рік тому +1

    6:14 HAS ME SCREAMING

  • @M_Free
    @M_Free Рік тому +1

    I've missed these deep dives into specific moments in melee history and why they're significant

  • @AsteriskStar1
    @AsteriskStar1 Рік тому

    2:18 in and just gotta say thats the best ad read I've seen

  • @cheezeebutter452
    @cheezeebutter452 Рік тому

    There is nothing I love more than challenging meta’s. It’s the coolest thing to watch happen because a meta comes into existence because a new thing turns out to be good and kicks away the old thing. But as the new thing becomes old and people rely on it too much you see just how easily they can fall apart when opponents take their meta into account and break it. It’s like watching WWE where one of the fighters dodges all of the punches he’s scripted to take and the other guy just goes “dude wtf you’re not doing the thing?!?”

  • @LewtwoYT
    @LewtwoYT Рік тому

    insane production on this

  • @fiNESScasting
    @fiNESScasting Рік тому

    that montage around the 14 minute mark is like the hardest thing ive ever seen

  • @Bradyboy26
    @Bradyboy26 Рік тому +2

    Honestly i think you should have also mentioned the absolute terror that armada was against sheik

  • @supwithit
    @supwithit Рік тому +9

    Technically speaking, you can't "solo main" Sheik since she can transform into Zelda.

  • @JustForComments666
    @JustForComments666 6 місяців тому

    @9:00 "all with solo sheik"
    Zelda killing Peach in the background: *am i joke?*

  • @4dojo
    @4dojo 5 місяців тому

    Back in college I played competitively in Brawl and Melee. In Melee almost everybody was just using Fox including myself and I see that not much has changed since then. I remember one time a bowser user came to a tournament, but he got destroyed so fast I felt awkward for him.

  • @iamtimnar5289
    @iamtimnar5289 11 місяців тому

    This is one of the only sponsorships I watched through because it was genuinely entertaining!

  • @servine1212
    @servine1212 Рік тому +1

    " And armadas Fox/Preach 3-0. All with solo sheik"
    *Clearly Shows Plup winning with Zelda*

  • @prizm9515
    @prizm9515 Рік тому +6

    Jmook is so fun to watch.

  • @xerxesblade
    @xerxesblade Рік тому

    S tier content. Your work is so GOATED

  • @Benetheburrito
    @Benetheburrito Рік тому

    Another banger. Loved the G9 edit

  • @dylan3746
    @dylan3746 Рік тому +1

    First time viewer. The editing is god tier. Time to binge

  • @AnArmyOfFish
    @AnArmyOfFish Рік тому +1

    I can't believe you didn't play the *gasp* he WAVEDASHED clip when bringing up Borp lol

  • @mutzify883
    @mutzify883 Рік тому +1

    I subscribed because you carried a dog at the end. Love melee

  • @ThatOneGuyWhoLikesPikmin
    @ThatOneGuyWhoLikesPikmin 9 місяців тому +2

    Where is the clip at 1:10 from?

  • @Hypercat0
    @Hypercat0 Рік тому +1

    i can hear the words of Leffen already: "Hbox is killing Sheik"!

  • @KingSlasma
    @KingSlasma Рік тому

    Has to be the funniest merch drop i've ever seen, the zoolander reference was simply amazing

  • @dragonclaw9173
    @dragonclaw9173 Рік тому

    Absolutely loved the sponsor segment, Walt would make a great model

  • @MrMattacka
    @MrMattacka Рік тому +1

    Walt you're the second GOAT only after JMOOK

  • @typhlosion7872
    @typhlosion7872 Рік тому +1

    From best character in the beginning of the game to some people debating she isn't even top 5

  • @uncutstrawberryjams
    @uncutstrawberryjams Рік тому

    Love the more analytical/stats stuff Walt!

  • @kingmeverse5861
    @kingmeverse5861 Рік тому

    GREAT VIDEO AS ALWAYS I LOVE YOU WALT

  • @HeroldBaum
    @HeroldBaum Рік тому

    Just watched the first three minutes and can confidently say, that this video is a banger

  • @DrDeez-do9zo
    @DrDeez-do9zo Рік тому +1

    Sheik: Melee's best benchwarmer

  • @madmaz186
    @madmaz186 Рік тому +1

    Your Ad game is starting to rival Internet Comment Etiquette's. Top tier marketing

  • @PGBigRed
    @PGBigRed Рік тому

    Idk what else to call them z-axis camera shots of the game were awesome

  • @pandaforce6162
    @pandaforce6162 Рік тому

    Walt your G8 montage was so insanely sick

  • @darkXwolf17-UD
    @darkXwolf17-UD 10 місяців тому +2

    Borp can be summed up like this
    Borp: using shrunken’s 1 by1
    Commentators: he’s just standing there… MENACINGLY!

  • @pancakemaster1667
    @pancakemaster1667 Рік тому +1

    13:09 Aiden and Nick

  • @Keaton_Ambrose
    @Keaton_Ambrose Рік тому

    3:25 Artemis fowl caught me WAY off guard

  • @alwinsarttalks
    @alwinsarttalks Рік тому

    yo what a banger doc gj!

  • @drewcurry280
    @drewcurry280 Рік тому

    Man what a great buildup to the pop off incredible video

  • @arthurmillet5053
    @arthurmillet5053 Рік тому

    Hbox screams had me crying 😂😂😂