I have to take issue with the idea that Mercer was "unqualified", the opposite was stated to be the case. He was actually brilliant with outstanding scores in the Academy until the cheating / divorce which basically destroyed him. His biggest flaw is he has little self-confidence and doesn't see his own strengths and talents. That's why Kelly pulled strings to get him a command, she felt like she torpedoed the career of a man who didn't deserve it and cost the Union a very promising command candidate by hitting him in his biggest weak spot. The reason the admiralty was willing to listen to her and give him another chance was because he had such a brilliant resume to that point and she assured them that he could and would get over his personality flaw given a chance.
I probably stated my point a little poorly. I think you're absolutely right about the character of Ed Mercer overall, but I meant to say that he was originally written to be immature and unqualified. In the pilot especially, it felt like they were setting him up to be someone who was in over his head. (His first scene with the admiral has him mistaking marbles for candy.) As the writers moved away from the idea of bickering exes at the core of the series, I think he matured a lot. And some stuff that the pilot established, like Dr. Finn choosing her assignment based on Ed Mercer needing her more experienced council, never payed off. Your description of Kelly's motivation is spot on, I think. Though I would argue that some of her maturity was also added in after the pilot, as the writers decided to make both her and Mercer a bit less like a squabbling couple at the center of a sitcom.
I get the feeling that what Seth wanted to make was the more serious Orville we see later on and that the pilot and initial extra goofiness of the first season was more because he had to sell the show as Family Guy meets Star Trek to actually get it made. Though in any case yeah The Orville got better over time and I can't wait for season 3.
I think you're right that a lot of the initial silliness was probably to help get this big-budget show financed and on the air and that he probably wanted to make the Orville more serious from the beginning. But the fact that Seth MacFarlane and the show's creative team actually pulled off that transformation still amazes me. After watching that pilot, I wouldn't have guessed that they'd get me to love these characters, this world, and this story.
That was the impression I got from A million ways to die in the West. It was almost like south wanted to make a legitimate Western but could only sell it as a comedy. Don't forget in the middle of that movie the sheriff gets bludgeoned to death. That scene in the cinematics of the movie made me think that Seth wanted to make a real western but could never sell it to the studio given the genre he works in.
I'm lukewarm on Seth MacFarlane. Something he does I like, others not so much. But he's hit a home run with ORVILLE. We need a Season 4. Some of the best Sci Fi storytelling in many years.
I don't think the character's were built on a "thin premise" in the first place. Other than in the pilot, these characters are never just stereotypes, and the developing of these characters into complex, fully fleshed out and interesting people, was almost instant, and almost certainly preplanned. It didn't save itself because it was never at risk.
I think the pilot was where a lot of my feelings about the characters being stereotypes came from. It felt like they took a look at the pilot and began changing things based on what could work a bit better. You can see this in the set design and in Alara's makeup, but I think it happened in the writing as well. Folks behind the scenes have been upfront about how their plans changed as the show progressed. A lot of LaMarr's character was invented after they realized that he was too similar to Malloy. And while MacFarline originally described Dr. Finn as being "the adult of the group," her role within the ensemble changed as the other characters became more mature in later scripts.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos That's what pilots are for....they switched ST: Voyager's captain while filming it's pilot, The ST:TOS filmed TWO pilots because Spock looked like The Devil and The Enterprise had a woman in a command position, the makeup for Delen in Babylon 5 looks very different in the pilot than what we see in the first episode of the series.
I think Shawn is right, the characters needed to be thinly created. Think of every movie/show to come out recently. Before the premiere the director, or actor would explain a characters background. Guess what, the character never truly evolves from that statement. In the three seasons of the orville we have seen characters grow, evolve, and become better from the first episode. Can we say the same for the characters in the current star trek shows?.
Ed and Kelly 8:17 just started being the mature adults they are. And as adults, they can still see humor in human(and alien) interactions. The "funny" was what sold the show to the studio. The dramasold it to the audience.
Season 3 definitely feels like Seth MacFarlane and everyone involved are really making their show the way they want to, without too many restrictions on what he can do.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos could be just me, but I guarantee you interview people, they love doing what they do and are having fun making something for the audience. It has some amazing themes and plots, but doesnt preach to the audience or look down on their audience, they entertain and tell a story and what you get out of it, is left to the viewer.
I loved the Orville from the first episode and never thought it had a bad one. I might not have good taste in shows but I dont care I love anything Seth McFarland does.
Shawn Ryan is expressing his opinion... it is his UA-cam channel & his right. But that is all it is...his opinion. He does give a well worded opinion, but it is not necessarily the truth for you or me. Actually l do not agree with his opinion, The Orville is NOT a Star Trek clone and should not be modeled after the Star Trek formula. The Orville is a scifi show in its own right...let Seth do his thing. If l thought Shawn Ryan was correct in his opinion, then l guess l should be watching Star Trek Discovery...NOT!
I was so relieved that it wasn't goofy like his animations. The whole reason I avoided watching it initially was that I was afraid it would just be all goofy laughs and wouldn't take the scifi aspects seriously. Now that I've watched all 3 seasons and LOVED them, I can say it very much does prioritize the scifi and storylines FIRST. It is amazing, fills you with wonder, and definitely takes it seriously, with comedy being last thought, which is how I like it. I don't want to watch a show where comedy is the point, I want to watch a show where the lives and adventures of the characters come first, who also joke around a little on the side as they live their lives, and that's exactly what the Orville did for me. Fucking amazing show.
Welcome back season 3. It's Star Trek TOS updated for the 2020s, this show has the best story plots, the best characters, the best special effects and the best darn robot (watch this dude's hands). Not just a great Trek show, but a great show on any level, which shows every promise of just getting better. Worth the price of admission and does not disappoint.
I just binge watched the orvill after seeing the first season a few years ago was happy to see a couple more seasons available. The show definitely has something that hooks you in initially. I think the CGI and costume designs are excellent. the Casting and acting is quite good. There seems to be some slow moments in the stories I think might come from not enough time spent on the writing. Or maybe they could have spent more time re-working the scripts and tightening them up a bit? Theres some really good basic ideas but overall it seems to be a bit slow paced. my fave story-arc was when malloy fell in love with a singer from 400 years ago and was able to first make a simulation of her life and then in a later episode he was able to travel back in time and live in her time period. Malloys character has a great sense of fun and they explored these stories making a great adventure/ romance episodes. it was also amazing to see the use of Malloy as a singer. Loved the song choices, he really has a special voice
Awesome! Yeah, I agree that the Malloy storyline works really well and they take the character to some interesting places. I feel like some of the slow moments have to do with Seth MacFarlane indulging some of his pet interests. (I personally skipped some of the musical numbers...)
Great video. Well planned and thought out. You clearly wrote a script for yourself to express your thoughts. All your observations are spot on. Season 3 of Orville was amazing. Storylines and writing were top notch. A huge improvement over previous season 2.
I remember, Seth McFarland, once said he wanted to make it a comedic parody of, 'STAR TREK' but, later on he got more serious about "subject matter" and I think he nailed it. Still funny though!
I'm glad that in the new age that puppets like yourself are finding new work opportunities. I'm glad that you were able to break through the glass ceiling as it was just a few short years ago puppets were just for children or comic relief. you made some very good points in your review being a fan of the Orville consider hanging out with other like-minded people our voice for the orville is Egotastic Funtime . I hope you have a good day
I really appreciate your comment. In these difficult times, we're just trying our best to make opportunities for ourselves! Your podcast definitely looks up my alley, I'm gonna start listening now! And your channel looks like a lot of fun, I just subscribed!
The Orville didn't save itself. The only thing that changed was they toned-down the goofiness. These scripts were all written well in advance - this was how the Orville was going to progress regardless.... however the first season was criticized in the media about it's goofiness. So, because of that, Seth, the writers and the show-runners decided to tone down the comedy. Problem is; while the critics didn't like the comedy - - the public at large DID. If you look at the ratings on Rotten Tomatos for the First Season.... it's 19% for the Critics, but 91% for the people. Personally, I think Seth simply got cold feet as he just began to doubt himself. He's even stated in interviews since that if the show gets to continue to a 4th season, there will be a return to the more "Light-Hearted" episodes.
Season 3 was great. I loved that it took on the task of exploring numerous moral dilemmas, like ST of old, without being preachy about it. In most cases, it didn’t even definitively make a statement about right or wrong, but simply explained the choice and the characters’ reasons for their decisions, leaving the viewer to agree or disagree.
Regarding the "it's all what?" comment. Star Trek and the Orville function almost like a "space navy". They follow the US Navy rank structure. The badge on the left breast, that's where the branch designation goes. Officer communities also have their own designators, so changing the uniform color helps the storyteller show that for the audience as opposed to needing to use a shoulder board or chest pin which is what the military uses. Like many naval vessels, the larger ships in ST and Orville can't necessarily enter atmosphere or get too close to other ships, so they use smaller ships that are kept onboard (ok, the navy typically leases liberty boats now, but older ships used dinghies that were kept on board, think Pirates of the Caribbean). About the only thing ST and Orville does is have the non-interference/prime directive to discuss how the crew should interact with indigenous people.
I enjoy the fact that the cast is not held up to be nigh perfect paragon of integrity standard like the TNG main cast was.... it makes them more relatable and likable...
There is an upside to not fleshing out the characters from the get go, you can let them grow along with the stories as the series unfold, and we get to see their growth, and you can fill in, the various reasons for why they're all there, which was done for basically all of them. And it works very well, because the writers use it right. Basically we get to meet them as very blank slates, and as we get to know them, we see they're very much like any other person, with their strengths and weaknesses.
Great video ma dude, Every time i speak about the Orville with someone I know, the response is always the same "Is that not like Ted in outer space?" could not be more wrong
One of the best thing about season 3 was that they extended the time of each episode. It makes it so much better … I really wasn’t so much impressed of season 2 because its story telling was lost in rushing through the plot most of the time while trying to put in all the jokes. But I agree the biggest problem is that they have to be not Star Trek while being a replacement.
You condemned the show for one gross-out gag in the first 60 seconds. The example of hard-earned improvement that you spend the most time discussing comes up in the second episode. This isn't a show that started badly and pulled itself up to greater heights, this is a show with a wobbly pilot that doesn't fully represent the rest of the series. Have you actually seen Encounter At Farpoint? Because having a wobbly pilot and some slightly shoddy season 1 episodes makes this MORE like Star Trek than different from it.
In terms of the gross-out gag, I wasn't trying to condemn the show as much as describe my strong reaction to it. That opening minute really set the stage for a very different type of show, and I think it's understandable why it colored the way that I viewed the first few episodes, before I understood how dramatically the show was shifting its tone away from those kinds of gags. In terms of how quickly the show improved, I'd argue that it's a complement to the writers to say that the show has kept increasing in quality over the course of two seasons. Contrast the early season 1 episode "If a Star Should Appear" with the first season finale "Mad Idolatry." Both explore similar themes, but while the former is an okay riff on a classic Star Trek premise, but the later has a lot more originality, complexity, and nuance.
Nearly every episode I’ve seen has had cringe in it. The first time I remember not being repulsed by something in the show was A Tale of Two Topas, Season 3, Episode 5. I’ve been watching, hoping it would get better and it has. I’m still slightly uncomfortable, waiting for the next fart joke, but maybe if it keeps getting better that will pass.
The Orville is both a tribute to Star Trek and its own take on the Space Opera. Season 3 is turning out to be very very good. Just like ST:TNG's 3rd season the Orville has found its footing and is starting to run. The way Seth and crew have interwoven the social dilemma and commentary is really well done for season 3. There is some story arc like Babylon 5 (and it's funny how the Union President is played by Bruce Boxleitner who also played Capt./President John Sheridan on B5) and also episodic combined. It really adds to the overall show content and direction. I grew up watching ST:TOS, and later saw ST:TNG when it first came out. I don't like Star Trek: Discovery and have issues with Picard, Strange New Worlds has potential. So I have my biases, but am glad to see and watch The Orville because it brings together some of the best aspects of Star Trek. I hope it goes for 7 seasons (wish we would get more episodes), and hopefully Disney won't hose it up.
The orville got amazing by season 3, but it was a journey. In season 1 they would randomly parody star trek with our perspective, almost breaking the 4th wall, which was disorienting and usually not funny. Season 2 was better but it still really struggled to weave familiar problems into the story. They even specifically reference a refuting of a study about whether vaccines cause some condition. Thats way too on the nose that its distracting. Season 3 is much better. The only thing that still holds the show back is seth mcfarlanes acting.
One of the most interesting things I was ever told outside of my field of study in college was during a Theater Appreciation class (one hour lecture on a theme, watch a movie later that week, write a paragraph about it - easy A). The professor said that everything is based on something else. You move the "pinky of Star Wars," and the "toe of Citizen Kane" wiggles (maybe not those two films, but you get the idea). It's very easy to see the connections between Orville and Trek, and I could see the Orville writers sitting around saying, "Hey, remember that one episode of Trek? Well, what if instead of the nearly perfect, honor-filled Federation officers, how would normal humans react and handle things?" But it's not like the issues on Trek were cut out of whole cloth. I imagine their writers would also say things like, "Did anyone ever read that story by that dealt with racism? Well, how would our characters deal it? And how about we make it really obvious how stupid racism is by having aliens literally be half white and half black!"
You're right about that opening scene. But the comedy in the first season does make that season memorable. And you cant say the same of some Star Trek series.
So, I'm with ya for the most part, but I'm having a hard time with the notion that "Ja'loja" was too low-brow for a puppet. Also, Bortus and Klyden smoking were hilarious.
Ha! Okay, you got me there! Maybe I'm the wrong puppet to deliver that particular message. I get that silly humor will always be a part of the Orville, but I do feel like it sometimes undercuts the more series things that the show also wants to accomplish. When I watch the show, I almost have to forget that Moclans are both the species that commits systemic oppression against its female members and the species that does cartoonish stuff like holding yearly pee ceremonies. Though I agree, the comedic deadpan duo of Bortus and Klyden can make me get over a lot of my issues.
He didn't get command despite not deserving it. He absolutely did deserve it and would not have been given a ship if he was not seen as capable. Kelly's recommendation was the catalyst for his promotion right then for that ship, but had she not recommended him, he likely would have gotten a different one once he pulled himself back together. What Kelly's recommendation did was shorten his recovery time.
Orville S1: what if TNG was funny? Orville S2: what if TNG was updated to be more thought provoking and a bit funny? Orville S3: what if TNG was just even more TNGish? Orville S4: fuck, I'm excited.
Wow! I think you really summed up the show really well, and to think I had get this from a puppet. Hated the show to start with for all the reasons you pointed out. At the start I thought the humour was either crass, obvious or just not that funny and same could be said if it’s characters. If anything I found the show’s characters irritating, that Malloy guy especially. But my older brother who’ll watch just about anything watched it and I caught a few episodes and I now find myself going back to watch it and agree, the show has improved. It’s handled some interesting storylines and, unlike TNG, didn’t shy away from unsettling topics or add unnecessary plot devices. I’ve skipped a few early episodes and now at the end of season 2, I may go back and watch some early ones and fast forward where necessary but overall I think I’m coming around to this show. Season 3 is out, I’ve caught one interesting episode featuring that character Malloy where he wasn’t so irritating so there hope yet. As for the best SiFi show out there…no…not quite, not for this SiFi fan but it’s showing promise.
Mr. Bucket wants to know if the Orville and Galaxy Quest take place in the same universe. The idea that a war lasts more than one season is unfortunately realistic.
Yeah... You definitely hit the nail on that proverbial head here! I've just finished all three seasons (and I really hope that they do more... Once those Hollywood strikes get resolved... If ever!!!) and I must say... After a shaky WTF start, The Orville just got better and better! Season Two was excellent and, parts of Season One were good! I also enjoyed Season Three but, I feel that they were actually looking to conclude the entire series by then, despite the fact that they left a few open threads to expand the show.. So yeah, Season Three was good but, it did feel a bit like a rather abrupt end! But that said, you are absolutely right! Character development is what really saved the show! As a casual Star Trek fan myself, who enjoyed all three Classic TNG era series (TNG, DS9 and VOY), this show felt a bit all too familiar. No problem I said, because I assumed that the jokes and casual approach in contrast to the more serious TNG series would take the show in a fun and unique direction. However, I found a lot of the jokes in season one wanting... I mean I LOVE Family Guy and I think Seth is Brilliant but, a lot of the jokes didn't really land for me and, although I found that "will they, won't they" dynamic between the captain and his number one initially funny and intriguing... It all got old rather quickly! But in season two this was all quickly resolved! The jokes were far less but much funnier and poignant... That trying dynamic between the captain and first officer got swept under the carpet... And each of the main characters got their own story arcs evolved. Indeed, it was all this character driven development that really made the show interesting! All intertwined with great stories, interesting galactic politics and excellent CGI space battles, that could easily rival anything today! That said however, some of the character driven stories were a bit over the top, like that relationship between the medical doctor and that robot! But besides some mishaps, a lot of these character driven stories did hit home, and yes... I would agree that this is what ultimately saved this show from itself! We can only hope that they can make some more seasons because there is definitely room for further scope!
This video is why I’m here. I agree. I’m glad I stuck with the show even if some of the humor isn’t necessarily my taste. I still appreciate what they are trying to do with the show and I’m glad I gave it a chance anyway.
I feel one of the shows biggest strengths is the character development you see couched in various plot lines: Ed's eventual maturity regarding his ex-wife, Bortus and later Klyden overcoming racially ingrained bigotry because of their love for their daughter, Alara's and John's sense of self-worth, Claire and Isaac's relationship, Gordon not being a total clown. Even Marcus and Ty display growth of character. Much of it is plot driven but a lot of it is just part of the story. You never really see that kind of human interaction in the Star Treks. Don't get me wrong, I've been a track fan for over 50 years, but this kind of characterization is usually found it in shows like Babylon 5 that were more humanized characters and less cardboard Starfleet cutouts.
I may need to revisit the first two seasons to compare, but I think I think I might end up agreeing with you... at least until the next season hopefully comes out and beats them all!
Just finished watching the third season. It was bigger and smaller at the same time. The visuals was larger and done so well. The story telling was smaller in that it focused on the individuals and told their stories better. Really well done. I gave up on Discovery after Michelle Yeoh left. don't care about any of the characters and would not want to have a conversation with any of them, let alone work with them.
So...I'm probably not the first one to tell you this, but Orville was originally pitched as a Star Trek show...a comedy Star Trek show to the show runners. They rejected this concept outright, and then turned around and decided to go the "Rick and Mortey" rout with "Lower Decks", which is kind of a rip-off of Seth's concept he pitched. Meanwhile, Seth found someone else to pick up the series, but couldn't do it with Star Trek IPs. And this isn't the first time Paramount/CBS pulled this stunt. The creator behind Babylon 5 pitched his idea for a Star Trek series involving a space station functioning for interstellar commerce, caught up in a territorial war and revealing the captain, over time, to be the fulfillment of prophesy. They rejected the concept outright. He finds another studio to pick up the series. Then what do the ass hats at Paramount do? They produce their own series with you know...all the stuff I just said about Babylon 5. He sued them, I believe, but I also believe he lost. Point being, Seth really wanted his show to be a Star Trek series, so that's why it looked a lot like one in the beginning. The result, though, was a series that gave Star Trek fans the show they wanted in every way that Discovery failed, and eventually every way that Picard failed. So, I'd say the success of Orville has AS MUCH to do with Paramount's DISGRACEFULNESS use of the Star Trek IP as it does the fact that The Orville found its footing and adapted what it was to what the fans were raving about. Good review. I've become a subscriber.
I actually didn't mind the eye rolling moments like Bortus only peeing one a year. The series is written exceptionally well and I think those moments are fourth wall breaks to people who don't necessarily understand Sci-Fi/Fantasy. Its like people who gripe about GOT, they say "swords are boring" or " so the red lady just gave birth to Ivan ooze because...?" It's the "but why?" argument kids participate in. It makes the viewer laugh and and the writers go "okay, you laughed at the peeing ritual or eat a table but what about this part of their culture?" It's asking viewers to commit to going deeper than just the comedy of the show. Its not people learning Klingon or cosplaying at comic con, its asking viewers to see the "humanity" in the Alien species. Sometimes its little preachy sure but other times it gets you right in the heart.
I think that's a really good point. I suppose I didn't really think about those moments as a type of outreach for folks who are a bit skeptical of Star Trek-style shows, but might watch a silly space adventure. Through that lens, you could almost view the first season as a kind of "Star Trek 101" course, as the sci-fi elements become more prevalent and the episodes' plots become more complex. By the end of 12 episodes, fans who came for the Seth MacFarlane humor might have been transformed into sci-fi nerds without realizing it!
@@ShawnBRyanVideos as you mentioned in the video, Seth also does amazingly well with combining and flipping tropes that you might see in both traditional comedies and sci-fi. Instead of “I have to work with my ex-wife who is a bit of a wet blanket”; we get a “number one” who is more of a partner now than they were when they were married. The sweet looking alien with a quirky superpower is actually someone who takes their job seriously and has to reconcile that with her parents who are kind of alien hippies. The dashing space captain is actually a romantic (correct me if I’m wrong but Ed hasn’t really hooked up with that many people compared to Kirk); plus, they managed to do the fan fiction trope/plot device of “sex pheromones” and not make it cringe. The joke was never about him “sleeping with a guy” (I mean it’s rob lowe!) but the k-drama antics that they go to to win the affections of said blue lover. Plus, there was no “Gay Panic” whatsoever. Orville never had to garner interest with “we are having a gay couple”; it was written in and the story moved forward. There was no pandering.
Ha! I think it's totally subjective. It didn't "click" with me right away, and I had to warm up to it. But I envy the folks who enjoyed it from the start, they got in on the ground floor of something special!
I've just started watching series one on Disney plus. There are some questionable moments and shots but it is growing on me. Even though I occasionally cringe on the bad greenscreen and composites.
I still leaves the two central characters as almost props. Would Star Trek or B5 have worked if the central head characters were a side show? Plus as noted, Orville not only borrows from star trek but change the ship to the enterprise and whats the difference. In star trek, we barely saw many full enterprise starships yet Orville can call up battalions of them. What does seth want Orville to ask thats different from ST. Like the Simpsons, Family guy is finding new stories harder to scrape up when it should be killed off in time. Adding a story to a limited management crew and some new races (and lets throw in a war) is but a mirror of ST plots. Nirvana is home on earth and the cruelty is on other planets of non human species. Politics almost does not exist nor does wealth or poverty. Humans made mistakes and history even after millenia is still learned. Technical limits are near gone - ftl/anti gravity/food replication/long distance communication/language and mostly humanoid appearance and appendages. Even Data as the ultimate AI is copied.
Hey Puppet! This was a good video. I just wish you didn't outright explain the big spoiler with Isaac in Season 2. One of my friends who I think would enjoy the show stopped after the first episode for the reasons you addressed. I would've passed your video along to convince him to revisit it, but I don't think I can risk that spoiler being ruined.
Sorry about that. It's tough to talk about the Orville's evolution without discussing what happens to Isaac. Hopefully I didn't spoil it for anybody. If you're looking to give your friend a sense of what the show becomes, you might try showing them the trailer for its second season. It does a pretty good job of selling the show without spoiling anything.
I am glad that season 3 moved mostly away from the endless Moclan melodrama that dominated season 2. I almost gave up on the series in season 2 because of that.
I enjoyed your take if I’m honest in the beginning I was kinda like what is this show 😂 but over all it’s really good and a lot better then most shows we see now
I don't think the Orville got good. I think it had a slightly shaky start, as they were finding their characters. If I compare the pilot to the pilots of all the other Star Trek series (because it is a Star Trek series in spirit, if not in name) only DS9's Emissary is superior. By the 5th episode, Pria, it was telling it's own unique stories, a time traveler from the future saving them all from certain death, but because she wanted to sell the Orville as a historical artifact. The two episodes after that, Krill and Majority Rule, are just great stories. The former an interesting tale helping us learn more about the Krill as our heroes due, and letting them act heroically. The latter an interesting twist on what Trek has always done, looking at a society like ours, but where something is taken to an extreme, in this case, social media and cancel culture being national policy. Seasons 2 and 3 just got even better. The Orville has become one of the greatest Sci Fi shows of all time. Let's hope it keeps going for several more seasons.
After watching a certain Supervillain with Helmet more than he deserves, the Muppet didn't even strike me as odd for the first 90% of the video until i noticed i was looking at a dude making mouth movements with his hand for 15 minutes straight. ...does your hand not get tired? I think that is enough UA-cam for today.
Ha! That really made me laugh! And let's just say that the cutaways to film clips may or may not be strategically timed to the moments when my arm gets sleepy.
Great video breakdown I also came to love the orville. Just for kicks would like to see you do a breakdown of the 80s show the A Team. still one of my favorite shows of all time.
Hmm, I've never seen the A-Team and know it only by reputation. A quick Google search reveals that it is free to stream on Tubi... I'll be honest, doing an overly thorough breakdown of a somewhat forgotten 80s TV show does seem like something I'd have fun doing. It... may happen. Just got to get through 98 episodes first!
Interesting and worthwhile thoughts, though I agree with some of the earlier comments. In regard to the dismissal of religion, I'm sure it might seem like it's too cavalier or heavy-handed from a contemporary viewpoint, but from the Orville's standpoint it simply stands to reason that the human urge toward religion has atrophied. From my perspective, and echoing sentiments already posted, the attitude toward religion is a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, my criticism is totally subjective. I probably agree with a lot of MacFarlane's views on the subject (and am not particularly religious myself), but I just feel like there's a more interesting way to engage with the issue. I'm a huge fan of DS9's treatment of the subject, where religious beliefs have a place alongside secular ones in a futuristic society. Maybe that's why I was a little disappointed that he dismissed the topic so definitively. It just felt like there was more fertile worldbuilding to be had and more interesting stories to be told.
I have always wondered what those 2 words you Americans use "malt eye" actually mean. Is it an abbreviation of malt eye pull? I'm not sure if you mean "multi", which is only 1 word & an abbreviation of multiple, in which in both cases the "i" is pronounced the same, such as "in, tin, bin, with, sit, etc. Illiteracy is of concern to me, as it is getting worse. The Roman Latin words" semi, hemi, demi" also use the "i" as I have listed above. All their words with "i" pronounce it only 1 way. Nor did they split the syllables to make them sound like 2 words. The "eye" sound comes from the Greek letter "y", which in all of their words sounded the same way. The closest letter they used to get a sound similar to the Roman letter "i" was the letter "e". Unfortunately, the "y" was given the "i" sound at the beginning & end of words in the English language, thus giving it 2 sounds. This also occurred with the letter "i", but it had an "e" placed either immediately after it or at the end of the word, signifying a change in the sound. There are still nations which are still true to the Greek & Roman Language pronunciations reflected in their spelling, such as Dutch & Indonesian.
42 years in the United States here and I've never heard someone mispronounce "multi" as "malt eye". Maybe that's how they say it in Canada and/or Mexico, I suppose.
I have to disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the new season. The spark (humor, chemistry) is off, and I don't like some of the newer characters. I do like some of the themes that were tackled so far (suicide, populism in politics, PTSD, etc) but I feel like something is off with the show. I also wouldn't mind if some of the original cast members returned. I don't know, I'm just not feeling Season 3. Maybe ep 6 will change my mind or something.
I’m vaguely aware of this show.. I pretty much assumed it was like a parody comedy of Star Trek.. Iv never heard anyone speak about the show and I don’t think iv ever seen anything on social media so iv had the impression it’s not that popular
The Gordon time travel episode was one of the more darker science-fiction stories I've ever seen made into live action. There's literally nothing funny about deleting a loving family from existence because rules. I love how this show found its place. And I think a large part of that has to do with everybody's hopes when they saw the trailers for Star Trek discovery I mean say what you want I'm about as far as looks are concerned discovery is eye candy. But when it came to filling that void that shows like TNG and Voyager filled.it not only fell flat downright defied it. And then Here Comes a TV show meant to be funny but also a love letter the old Star Trek.
I like the first season more than the current season. I wish they would just give creative freedom to the creative people instead of executives. I liked the show because of its fun and funny atmosphere.
Do you think there are particular undesirable traits of season three that can be attributed to "executives" or did you hear someone complain about "executives" somewhere and thought parroting it would make you sound/feel smart and/or edgy? Asking for a friend.
The Orville was always good. The second season was definitely better, but the first season had some great episodes. Yeah the pilot might have been a little rough, but most pilots are. Good video nonetheless.
I'll argue Season 1 was overall better... more willing to experiment with its tone, trying different things, different themes and genres, the humor was detrimental to one or two episodes where it went into "these characters behave too stupid for me to take this serious" but Season 2 played it too safe, we get one or two big CGI budget 2 parters with the big SciFi stories and every other episode is the same type of romantic comedy sitcom thing over and over with 5 minutes of obligatory SciFi plot in the B-Story. I hope Season 3 turns this around, does the SciFi plot as the A-Plot and the character stuff as the 5-10 minute B-Plot. Season 1 is far from perfect, but it has something for everyone to fall in love with, Season 2 feels like somebody said "we need to appeal more to the female audience, MORE ROMANCE!" ... ...but this is nitpicking on a high level. Compared to the garbage Star Trek is unapologetically delivering for YEARS now, even the worst of Orville is Shakespeare and worth re-watching over and over while i can not bring myself to be even remotely hopeful for Strange New Worlds. If you had told me 10 years ago that i would DREAD them making a new show about the ENTERPRISE with Captain Pike ... i would have declared you insane, but here we are.
It was a great show right from the first episode. Shawn expresses a view one gets from fans fairly regularly but he is--and they are--just wrong about it. Everything that has made THE ORVILLE so special was right there from its beginning. The writing got better as it went along but it didn't improve by abandoning what it had been.
From the start the show stumbled a bit, jokes and writing were meh, but the show started to find its footing in season 2 and it got good. Season 3 looks like it’s continuing that momentum. It actually became the Star Trek that it’s considered to be better than the actual new Star Trek show on Paramount plus. Can’t wait to see more.
I'm really confused by your comment about how you have a problem with the way the orville talks about religion. I literally can't see anything wrong with the commentry they make there
Presumably, the narrator/writer of this video is religious and is not aware of all the suffering caused by organized religion or knows about it but doesn't care. Not hard to predict he'd be on that side of the aisle given his out-of-the-blue/senseless whining about Discovery.
I just cant wait for season 4 now 😔 I honestly think the season 3 finale was anticlimactic compared to the rest of the show. He should do more serialized runs- the 2 parter was prolly my favorite episode out of all of them
Thank you for mentioning my all-time favourite ScFi show "Babylon 5" in a correct and respectful way. The Orville is known to emulate Star Trek (but soes it better), but some of the stories lean heavily towards Babylon 5. Joe Straczynski, I think, would be proud of this Writers Room.
Not watching this yet, because of spoilers. But midway through season 1 I was snoozing through the serialized trope heavy stories. But I forced myself to keep watching because “people say the Orville is really good” And OMG the season finale was genius. It’s a concept that Rick and morty and Star Trek have played with but with less impact. “mad idolatry” is a magnum opus of science fiction and a vision of hope for our current age, where religious fundamentalism is unleashing its death throes: as Enlightenment values backslide into flat earth conspiracies, sprawling disinformation networks, science denial, and nihilistic resignation to capitalist realism.
I'm happy you stopped yourself from getting spoiled, and I'm glad that you stuck with the show through the early growing pains! I agree that "Mad Idolatry" really felt like the show hitting its stride. Be sure to comment again when you wrap up season 2, I'd definitely be interested to hear what you thought of it!
I have to take issue with the idea that Mercer was "unqualified", the opposite was stated to be the case. He was actually brilliant with outstanding scores in the Academy until the cheating / divorce which basically destroyed him. His biggest flaw is he has little self-confidence and doesn't see his own strengths and talents.
That's why Kelly pulled strings to get him a command, she felt like she torpedoed the career of a man who didn't deserve it and cost the Union a very promising command candidate by hitting him in his biggest weak spot. The reason the admiralty was willing to listen to her and give him another chance was because he had such a brilliant resume to that point and she assured them that he could and would get over his personality flaw given a chance.
I probably stated my point a little poorly. I think you're absolutely right about the character of Ed Mercer overall, but I meant to say that he was originally written to be immature and unqualified. In the pilot especially, it felt like they were setting him up to be someone who was in over his head. (His first scene with the admiral has him mistaking marbles for candy.) As the writers moved away from the idea of bickering exes at the core of the series, I think he matured a lot. And some stuff that the pilot established, like Dr. Finn choosing her assignment based on Ed Mercer needing her more experienced council, never payed off.
Your description of Kelly's motivation is spot on, I think. Though I would argue that some of her maturity was also added in after the pilot, as the writers decided to make both her and Mercer a bit less like a squabbling couple at the center of a sitcom.
I get the feeling that what Seth wanted to make was the more serious Orville we see later on and that the pilot and initial extra goofiness of the first season was more because he had to sell the show as Family Guy meets Star Trek to actually get it made. Though in any case yeah The Orville got better over time and I can't wait for season 3.
I think you're right that a lot of the initial silliness was probably to help get this big-budget show financed and on the air and that he probably wanted to make the Orville more serious from the beginning. But the fact that Seth MacFarlane and the show's creative team actually pulled off that transformation still amazes me. After watching that pilot, I wouldn't have guessed that they'd get me to love these characters, this world, and this story.
Good point. I still hope for good comedy. Even Star Trek had comedy in many episodes.
I disagree the humor is what makes it different from most treky shows
That was the impression I got from A million ways to die in the West. It was almost like south wanted to make a legitimate Western but could only sell it as a comedy. Don't forget in the middle of that movie the sheriff gets bludgeoned to death. That scene in the cinematics of the movie made me think that Seth wanted to make a real western but could never sell it to the studio given the genre he works in.
@@butcrack456 Ever watch Avenue 5? I thought that was a good comedy space show. (It's not really like Star Trek or The Orville though.
I'm lukewarm on Seth MacFarlane. Something he does I like, others not so much. But he's hit a home run with ORVILLE. We need a Season 4. Some of the best Sci Fi storytelling in many years.
I don't think the character's were built on a "thin premise" in the first place. Other than in the pilot, these characters are never just stereotypes, and the developing of these characters into complex, fully fleshed out and interesting people, was almost instant, and almost certainly preplanned.
It didn't save itself because it was never at risk.
I think the pilot was where a lot of my feelings about the characters being stereotypes came from. It felt like they took a look at the pilot and began changing things based on what could work a bit better. You can see this in the set design and in Alara's makeup, but I think it happened in the writing as well.
Folks behind the scenes have been upfront about how their plans changed as the show progressed. A lot of LaMarr's character was invented after they realized that he was too similar to Malloy. And while MacFarline originally described Dr. Finn as being "the adult of the group," her role within the ensemble changed as the other characters became more mature in later scripts.
The show was a hit right from the start
@@ShawnBRyanVideos That's what pilots are for....they switched ST: Voyager's captain while filming it's pilot, The ST:TOS filmed TWO pilots because Spock looked like The Devil and The Enterprise had a woman in a command position, the makeup for Delen in Babylon 5 looks very different in the pilot than what we see in the first episode of the series.
I think Shawn is right, the characters needed to be thinly created. Think of every movie/show to come out recently. Before the premiere the director, or actor would explain a characters background. Guess what, the character never truly evolves from that statement. In the three seasons of the orville we have seen characters grow, evolve, and become better from the first episode. Can we say the same for the characters in the current star trek shows?.
Exactly! Shawn Ryan doesn't know what he's talking about.
Ed and Kelly 8:17 just started being the mature adults they are. And as adults, they can still see humor in human(and alien) interactions. The "funny" was what sold the show to the studio. The dramasold it to the audience.
Season three is amazing! It is the star trek we wanted. It is pure entertainment, great character development, and plots are fantastic.
Season 3 definitely feels like Seth MacFarlane and everyone involved are really making their show the way they want to, without too many restrictions on what he can do.
@@ShawnBRyanVideos could be just me, but I guarantee you interview people, they love doing what they do and are having fun making something for the audience. It has some amazing themes and plots, but doesnt preach to the audience or look down on their audience, they entertain and tell a story and what you get out of it, is left to the viewer.
it definitely gets better with each season. it's more serious but without taking itself too seriously
I loved the Orville from the first episode and never thought it had a bad one. I might not have good taste in shows but I dont care I love anything Seth McFarland does.
Bah, taste is overrated! Life's too short not enjoy as much stuff as you can.
You got great taste, cause Orville is one of the greatest shows ever!
Shawn Ryan is expressing his opinion... it is his UA-cam channel & his right.
But that is all it is...his opinion. He does give a well worded opinion, but it is not necessarily the truth for you or me.
Actually l do not agree with his opinion, The Orville is NOT a Star Trek clone and should not be modeled after the Star Trek formula.
The Orville is a scifi show in its own right...let Seth do his thing. If l thought Shawn Ryan was correct in his opinion, then l guess l should be watching Star Trek Discovery...NOT!
I agree. I'm fine with how it evolved but I was hooked from the first episode and I think the jokes landed just fine from the beginning.
I was so relieved that it wasn't goofy like his animations. The whole reason I avoided watching it initially was that I was afraid it would just be all goofy laughs and wouldn't take the scifi aspects seriously. Now that I've watched all 3 seasons and LOVED them, I can say it very much does prioritize the scifi and storylines FIRST. It is amazing, fills you with wonder, and definitely takes it seriously, with comedy being last thought, which is how I like it. I don't want to watch a show where comedy is the point, I want to watch a show where the lives and adventures of the characters come first, who also joke around a little on the side as they live their lives, and that's exactly what the Orville did for me. Fucking amazing show.
Welcome back season 3. It's Star Trek TOS updated for the 2020s, this show has the best story plots, the best characters, the best special effects and the best darn robot (watch this dude's hands). Not just a great Trek show, but a great show on any level, which shows every promise of just getting better. Worth the price of admission and does not disappoint.
I just binge watched the orvill after seeing the first season a few years ago was happy to see a couple more seasons available. The show definitely has something that hooks you in initially. I think the CGI and costume designs are excellent. the Casting and acting is quite good. There seems to be some slow moments in the stories I think might come from not enough time spent on the writing. Or maybe they could have spent more time re-working the scripts and tightening them up a bit? Theres some really good basic ideas but overall it seems to be a bit slow paced. my fave story-arc was when malloy fell in love with a singer from 400 years ago and was able to first make a simulation of her life and then in a later episode he was able to travel back in time and live in her time period. Malloys character has a great sense of fun and they explored these stories making a great adventure/ romance episodes. it was also amazing to see the use of Malloy as a singer. Loved the song choices, he really has a special voice
Awesome! Yeah, I agree that the Malloy storyline works really well and they take the character to some interesting places.
I feel like some of the slow moments have to do with Seth MacFarlane indulging some of his pet interests. (I personally skipped some of the musical numbers...)
Great video. Well planned and thought out. You clearly wrote a script for yourself to express your thoughts. All your observations are spot on. Season 3 of Orville was amazing. Storylines and writing were top notch. A huge improvement over previous season 2.
Is it an improvement over subsequent season two as well?
I remember, Seth McFarland, once said he wanted to make it a comedic parody of, 'STAR TREK' but, later on he got more serious about "subject matter" and I think he nailed it. Still funny though!
I'm glad that in the new age that puppets like yourself are finding new work opportunities. I'm glad that you were able to break through the glass ceiling as it was just a few short years ago puppets were just for children or comic relief. you made some very good points in your review being a fan of the Orville consider hanging out with other like-minded people our voice for the orville is Egotastic Funtime . I hope you have a good day
I really appreciate your comment. In these difficult times, we're just trying our best to make opportunities for ourselves! Your podcast definitely looks up my alley, I'm gonna start listening now! And your channel looks like a lot of fun, I just subscribed!
Season 3 has ended up better than you actually predicted. The gulf in quality between S1 and S3 is seriously TNG level.
The Orville didn't save itself. The only thing that changed was they toned-down the goofiness. These scripts were all written well in advance - this was how the Orville was going to progress regardless.... however the first season was criticized in the media about it's goofiness. So, because of that, Seth, the writers and the show-runners decided to tone down the comedy.
Problem is; while the critics didn't like the comedy - - the public at large DID. If you look at the ratings on Rotten Tomatos for the First Season.... it's 19% for the Critics, but 91% for the people.
Personally, I think Seth simply got cold feet as he just began to doubt himself. He's even stated in interviews since that if the show gets to continue to a 4th season, there will be a return to the more "Light-Hearted" episodes.
I found the whole Orville show to be very very refreshing. I also just overlook the oddities and occasional weak episodes.
I think you're right, and that's probably the healthiest approach to most shows!
Season 3 was great. I loved that it took on the task of exploring numerous moral dilemmas, like ST of old, without being preachy about it. In most cases, it didn’t even definitively make a statement about right or wrong, but simply explained the choice and the characters’ reasons for their decisions, leaving the viewer to agree or disagree.
Got good ? It was never bad !
Regarding the "it's all what?" comment. Star Trek and the Orville function almost like a "space navy". They follow the US Navy rank structure. The badge on the left breast, that's where the branch designation goes. Officer communities also have their own designators, so changing the uniform color helps the storyteller show that for the audience as opposed to needing to use a shoulder board or chest pin which is what the military uses. Like many naval vessels, the larger ships in ST and Orville can't necessarily enter atmosphere or get too close to other ships, so they use smaller ships that are kept onboard (ok, the navy typically leases liberty boats now, but older ships used dinghies that were kept on board, think Pirates of the Caribbean). About the only thing ST and Orville does is have the non-interference/prime directive to discuss how the crew should interact with indigenous people.
Your commentary is phenomenal, it makes me think which I love. Subscribed, please keep making more
Thanks a lot for your comment and for your subscription! I really appreciate it!!
I enjoy the fact that the cast is not held up to be nigh perfect paragon of integrity standard like the TNG main cast was.... it makes them more relatable and likable...
The Orville started strong and only got better.
There is an upside to not fleshing out the characters from the get go, you can let them grow along with the stories as the series unfold, and we get to see their growth, and you can fill in, the various reasons for why they're all there, which was done for basically all of them. And it works very well, because the writers use it right. Basically we get to meet them as very blank slates, and as we get to know them, we see they're very much like any other person, with their strengths and weaknesses.
Great video ma dude, Every time i speak about the Orville with someone I know, the response is always the same "Is that not like Ted in outer space?" could not be more wrong
Okay...I see this channel going places. Let me strap in for the ride.
One of the best choices the Orville made, is not having transporters.
One of the best thing about season 3 was that they extended the time of each episode. It makes it so much better … I really wasn’t so much impressed of season 2 because its story telling was lost in rushing through the plot most of the time while trying to put in all the jokes.
But I agree the biggest problem is that they have to be not Star Trek while being a replacement.
You condemned the show for one gross-out gag in the first 60 seconds. The example of hard-earned improvement that you spend the most time discussing comes up in the second episode.
This isn't a show that started badly and pulled itself up to greater heights, this is a show with a wobbly pilot that doesn't fully represent the rest of the series. Have you actually seen Encounter At Farpoint? Because having a wobbly pilot and some slightly shoddy season 1 episodes makes this MORE like Star Trek than different from it.
In terms of the gross-out gag, I wasn't trying to condemn the show as much as describe my strong reaction to it. That opening minute really set the stage for a very different type of show, and I think it's understandable why it colored the way that I viewed the first few episodes, before I understood how dramatically the show was shifting its tone away from those kinds of gags.
In terms of how quickly the show improved, I'd argue that it's a complement to the writers to say that the show has kept increasing in quality over the course of two seasons. Contrast the early season 1 episode "If a Star Should Appear" with the first season finale "Mad Idolatry." Both explore similar themes, but while the former is an okay riff on a classic Star Trek premise, but the later has a lot more originality, complexity, and nuance.
Nearly every episode I’ve seen has had cringe in it. The first time I remember not being repulsed by something in the show was A Tale of Two Topas, Season 3, Episode 5. I’ve been watching, hoping it would get better and it has. I’m still slightly uncomfortable, waiting for the next fart joke, but maybe if it keeps getting better that will pass.
The Orville is both a tribute to Star Trek and its own take on the Space Opera. Season 3 is turning out to be very very good. Just like ST:TNG's 3rd season the Orville has found its footing and is starting to run. The way Seth and crew have interwoven the social dilemma and commentary is really well done for season 3. There is some story arc like Babylon 5 (and it's funny how the Union President is played by Bruce Boxleitner who also played Capt./President John Sheridan on B5) and also episodic combined. It really adds to the overall show content and direction.
I grew up watching ST:TOS, and later saw ST:TNG when it first came out. I don't like Star Trek: Discovery and have issues with Picard, Strange New Worlds has potential. So I have my biases, but am glad to see and watch The Orville because it brings together some of the best aspects of Star Trek. I hope it goes for 7 seasons (wish we would get more episodes), and hopefully Disney won't hose it up.
The orville got amazing by season 3, but it was a journey. In season 1 they would randomly parody star trek with our perspective, almost breaking the 4th wall, which was disorienting and usually not funny. Season 2 was better but it still really struggled to weave familiar problems into the story. They even specifically reference a refuting of a study about whether vaccines cause some condition. Thats way too on the nose that its distracting. Season 3 is much better. The only thing that still holds the show back is seth mcfarlanes acting.
Season 3 was amazing and I can't wait for season 4. #renewtheorville
One of the most interesting things I was ever told outside of my field of study in college was during a Theater Appreciation class (one hour lecture on a theme, watch a movie later that week, write a paragraph about it - easy A). The professor said that everything is based on something else. You move the "pinky of Star Wars," and the "toe of Citizen Kane" wiggles (maybe not those two films, but you get the idea). It's very easy to see the connections between Orville and Trek, and I could see the Orville writers sitting around saying, "Hey, remember that one episode of Trek? Well, what if instead of the nearly perfect, honor-filled Federation officers, how would normal humans react and handle things?" But it's not like the issues on Trek were cut out of whole cloth. I imagine their writers would also say things like, "Did anyone ever read that story by that dealt with racism? Well, how would our characters deal it? And how about we make it really obvious how stupid racism is by having aliens literally be half white and half black!"
You're right about that opening scene. But the comedy in the first season does make that season memorable. And you cant say the same of some Star Trek series.
Yeah, there have always been more good jokes than bad in this show.
Thin at the start because the setup was being, well, set up. Didn't start peeling the layers back on the characters until that was established.
So, I'm with ya for the most part, but I'm having a hard time with the notion that "Ja'loja" was too low-brow for a puppet.
Also, Bortus and Klyden smoking were hilarious.
Ha! Okay, you got me there! Maybe I'm the wrong puppet to deliver that particular message. I get that silly humor will always be a part of the Orville, but I do feel like it sometimes undercuts the more series things that the show also wants to accomplish. When I watch the show, I almost have to forget that Moclans are both the species that commits systemic oppression against its female members and the species that does cartoonish stuff like holding yearly pee ceremonies.
Though I agree, the comedic deadpan duo of Bortus and Klyden can make me get over a lot of my issues.
Bortus and Klyden dancing was pretty uproarious, as well.
Came for The Orville stayed for the puppet
He didn't get command despite not deserving it. He absolutely did deserve it and would not have been given a ship if he was not seen as capable. Kelly's recommendation was the catalyst for his promotion right then for that ship, but had she not recommended him, he likely would have gotten a different one once he pulled himself back together. What Kelly's recommendation did was shorten his recovery time.
Orville S1: what if TNG was funny?
Orville S2: what if TNG was updated to be more thought provoking and a bit funny?
Orville S3: what if TNG was just even more TNGish?
Orville S4: fuck, I'm excited.
It's kinda hilarious to me that The Orville started out as a Star Trek parody and then became actual Star Trek
Ha! Yeah, you're not wrong!
Very well presented, you articulated how I feel about The Orville but never bothered expressing.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Wow! I think you really summed up the show really well, and to think I had get this from a puppet. Hated the show to start with for all the reasons you pointed out. At the start I thought the humour was either crass, obvious or just not that funny and same could be said if it’s characters. If anything I found the show’s characters irritating, that Malloy guy especially. But my older brother who’ll watch just about anything watched it and I caught a few episodes and I now find myself going back to watch it and agree, the show has improved.
It’s handled some interesting storylines and, unlike TNG, didn’t shy away from unsettling topics or add unnecessary plot devices. I’ve skipped a few early episodes and now at the end of season 2, I may go back and watch some early ones and fast forward where necessary but overall I think I’m coming around to this show. Season 3 is out, I’ve caught one interesting episode featuring that character Malloy where he wasn’t so irritating so there hope yet.
As for the best SiFi show out there…no…not quite, not for this SiFi fan but it’s showing promise.
Very well done!
The Orville is the best sci-fi comedy, in my opinion.
Mr. Bucket wants to know if the Orville and Galaxy Quest take place in the same universe.
The idea that a war lasts more than one season is unfortunately realistic.
Yeah... You definitely hit the nail on that proverbial head here! I've just finished all three seasons (and I really hope that they do more... Once those Hollywood strikes get resolved... If ever!!!) and I must say... After a shaky WTF start, The Orville just got better and better! Season Two was excellent and, parts of Season One were good! I also enjoyed Season Three but, I feel that they were actually looking to conclude the entire series by then, despite the fact that they left a few open threads to expand the show.. So yeah, Season Three was good but, it did feel a bit like a rather abrupt end!
But that said, you are absolutely right! Character development is what really saved the show! As a casual Star Trek fan myself, who enjoyed all three Classic TNG era series (TNG, DS9 and VOY), this show felt a bit all too familiar. No problem I said, because I assumed that the jokes and casual approach in contrast to the more serious TNG series would take the show in a fun and unique direction.
However, I found a lot of the jokes in season one wanting... I mean I LOVE Family Guy and I think Seth is Brilliant but, a lot of the jokes didn't really land for me and, although I found that "will they, won't they" dynamic between the captain and his number one initially funny and intriguing... It all got old rather quickly!
But in season two this was all quickly resolved! The jokes were far less but much funnier and poignant... That trying dynamic between the captain and first officer got swept under the carpet... And each of the main characters got their own story arcs evolved. Indeed, it was all this character driven development that really made the show interesting! All intertwined with great stories, interesting galactic politics and excellent CGI space battles, that could easily rival anything today!
That said however, some of the character driven stories were a bit over the top, like that relationship between the medical doctor and that robot! But besides some mishaps, a lot of these character driven stories did hit home, and yes... I would agree that this is what ultimately saved this show from itself!
We can only hope that they can make some more seasons because there is definitely room for further scope!
This video is why I’m here. I agree. I’m glad I stuck with the show even if some of the humor isn’t necessarily my taste. I still appreciate what they are trying to do with the show and I’m glad I gave it a chance anyway.
Season 3 was AMAZING!
I feel one of the shows biggest strengths is the character development you see couched in various plot lines: Ed's eventual maturity regarding his ex-wife, Bortus and later Klyden overcoming racially ingrained bigotry because of their love for their daughter, Alara's and John's sense of self-worth, Claire and Isaac's relationship, Gordon not being a total clown. Even Marcus and Ty display growth of character. Much of it is plot driven but a lot of it is just part of the story. You never really see that kind of human interaction in the Star Treks. Don't get me wrong, I've been a track fan for over 50 years, but this kind of characterization is usually found it in shows like Babylon 5 that were more humanized characters and less cardboard Starfleet cutouts.
This season was jarring and ended up becoming my favorite.
I may need to revisit the first two seasons to compare, but I think I think I might end up agreeing with you... at least until the next season hopefully comes out and beats them all!
You know Seth in full on Trek fanboy, right! that's why the show pays homage to Star Trek in so many ways
He did appear on a Star Trek episode.
Orville is a great example that there is still an audience for clever and poignant science fiction.
If only he knew how amazing season3 was gonna be.
Ha! Yeah, silly past me... how young and naïve.
I hope they bring back the humour and enter it into the topical drama of each episode. Picard was awesome
the atheists aspect of the show is one of the main reasons i love it
Yes, it's nice to imagine a society free of all the suffering caused by organized religion.
Very interesting. Love the beard.
Ha, thanks!
keep up the good work.
Just finished watching the third season. It was bigger and smaller at the same time. The visuals was larger and done so well. The story telling was smaller in that it focused on the individuals and told their stories better. Really well done.
I gave up on Discovery after Michelle Yeoh left. don't care about any of the characters and would not want to have a conversation with any of them, let alone work with them.
So...I'm probably not the first one to tell you this, but Orville was originally pitched as a Star Trek show...a comedy Star Trek show to the show runners. They rejected this concept outright, and then turned around and decided to go the "Rick and Mortey" rout with "Lower Decks", which is kind of a rip-off of Seth's concept he pitched. Meanwhile, Seth found someone else to pick up the series, but couldn't do it with Star Trek IPs. And this isn't the first time Paramount/CBS pulled this stunt. The creator behind Babylon 5 pitched his idea for a Star Trek series involving a space station functioning for interstellar commerce, caught up in a territorial war and revealing the captain, over time, to be the fulfillment of prophesy. They rejected the concept outright. He finds another studio to pick up the series. Then what do the ass hats at Paramount do? They produce their own series with you know...all the stuff I just said about Babylon 5. He sued them, I believe, but I also believe he lost. Point being, Seth really wanted his show to be a Star Trek series, so that's why it looked a lot like one in the beginning. The result, though, was a series that gave Star Trek fans the show they wanted in every way that Discovery failed, and eventually every way that Picard failed. So, I'd say the success of Orville has AS MUCH to do with Paramount's DISGRACEFULNESS use of the Star Trek IP as it does the fact that The Orville found its footing and adapted what it was to what the fans were raving about. Good review. I've become a subscriber.
I actually didn't mind the eye rolling moments like Bortus only peeing one a year. The series is written exceptionally well and I think those moments are fourth wall breaks to people who don't necessarily understand Sci-Fi/Fantasy. Its like people who gripe about GOT, they say "swords are boring" or " so the red lady just gave birth to Ivan ooze because...?" It's the "but why?" argument kids participate in. It makes the viewer laugh and and the writers go "okay, you laughed at the peeing ritual or eat a table but what about this part of their culture?" It's asking viewers to commit to going deeper than just the comedy of the show. Its not people learning Klingon or cosplaying at comic con, its asking viewers to see the "humanity" in the Alien species. Sometimes its little preachy sure but other times it gets you right in the heart.
I think that's a really good point. I suppose I didn't really think about those moments as a type of outreach for folks who are a bit skeptical of Star Trek-style shows, but might watch a silly space adventure.
Through that lens, you could almost view the first season as a kind of "Star Trek 101" course, as the sci-fi elements become more prevalent and the episodes' plots become more complex. By the end of 12 episodes, fans who came for the Seth MacFarlane humor might have been transformed into sci-fi nerds without realizing it!
@@ShawnBRyanVideos as you mentioned in the video, Seth also does amazingly well with combining and flipping tropes that you might see in both traditional comedies and sci-fi. Instead of “I have to work with my ex-wife who is a bit of a wet blanket”; we get a “number one” who is more of a partner now than they were when they were married. The sweet looking alien with a quirky superpower is actually someone who takes their job seriously and has to reconcile that with her parents who are kind of alien hippies. The dashing space captain is actually a romantic (correct me if I’m wrong but Ed hasn’t really hooked up with that many people compared to Kirk); plus, they managed to do the fan fiction trope/plot device of “sex pheromones” and not make it cringe. The joke was never about him “sleeping with a guy” (I mean it’s rob lowe!) but the k-drama antics that they go to to win the affections of said blue lover. Plus, there was no “Gay Panic” whatsoever. Orville never had to garner interest with “we are having a gay couple”; it was written in and the story moved forward. There was no pandering.
I got tricked hook line and sinker, went in for a comedy, now i want to watch old school trek
What do you mean it got good… it was always good… it just got more Gooder… 😂
Ha! I think it's totally subjective. It didn't "click" with me right away, and I had to warm up to it. But I envy the folks who enjoyed it from the start, they got in on the ground floor of something special!
I've just started watching series one on Disney plus. There are some questionable moments and shots but it is growing on me. Even though I occasionally cringe on the bad greenscreen and composites.
Can wait for the new update for season 3
The show is good right out of the gate.
I still leaves the two central characters as almost props. Would Star Trek or B5 have worked if the central head characters were a side show? Plus as noted, Orville not only borrows from star trek but change the ship to the enterprise and whats the difference. In star trek, we barely saw many full enterprise starships yet Orville can call up battalions of them. What does seth want Orville to ask thats different from ST. Like the Simpsons, Family guy is finding new stories harder to scrape up when it should be killed off in time. Adding a story to a limited management crew and some new races (and lets throw in a war) is but a mirror of ST plots. Nirvana is home on earth and the cruelty is on other planets of non human species. Politics almost does not exist nor does wealth or poverty. Humans made mistakes and history even after millenia is still learned. Technical limits are near gone - ftl/anti gravity/food replication/long distance communication/language and mostly humanoid appearance and appendages. Even Data as the ultimate AI is copied.
Hey Puppet! This was a good video. I just wish you didn't outright explain the big spoiler with Isaac in Season 2. One of my friends who I think would enjoy the show stopped after the first episode for the reasons you addressed. I would've passed your video along to convince him to revisit it, but I don't think I can risk that spoiler being ruined.
Sorry about that. It's tough to talk about the Orville's evolution without discussing what happens to Isaac. Hopefully I didn't spoil it for anybody.
If you're looking to give your friend a sense of what the show becomes, you might try showing them the trailer for its second season. It does a pretty good job of selling the show without spoiling anything.
I am glad that season 3 moved mostly away from the endless Moclan melodrama that dominated season 2. I almost gave up on the series in season 2 because of that.
I think that it goes like this: Orville =good Star Trek. Discovery = bad Star Trek.
Religion is exactly as they say it is.
Good stuff.
You deserve a heckuva lot more than 500 subscribers.
I don't think the humour cheapens it at all, on the contrary I think it humanizes characters and makes them more realistic.
I enjoyed your take if I’m honest in the beginning I was kinda like what is this show 😂 but over all it’s really good and a lot better then most shows we see now
I don't think the Orville got good. I think it had a slightly shaky start, as they were finding their characters. If I compare the pilot to the pilots of all the other Star Trek series (because it is a Star Trek series in spirit, if not in name) only DS9's Emissary is superior. By the 5th episode, Pria, it was telling it's own unique stories, a time traveler from the future saving them all from certain death, but because she wanted to sell the Orville as a historical artifact. The two episodes after that, Krill and Majority Rule, are just great stories. The former an interesting tale helping us learn more about the Krill as our heroes due, and letting them act heroically. The latter an interesting twist on what Trek has always done, looking at a society like ours, but where something is taken to an extreme, in this case, social media and cancel culture being national policy.
Seasons 2 and 3 just got even better.
The Orville has become one of the greatest Sci Fi shows of all time. Let's hope it keeps going for several more seasons.
After watching a certain Supervillain with Helmet more than he deserves, the Muppet didn't even strike me as odd for the first 90% of the video until i noticed i was looking at a dude making mouth movements with his hand for 15 minutes straight. ...does your hand not get tired?
I think that is enough UA-cam for today.
Ha! That really made me laugh! And let's just say that the cutaways to film clips may or may not be strategically timed to the moments when my arm gets sleepy.
Retepsian is naisPETER spelled backwards
Okay... I think you just cracked this whole case WIDE OPEN!!!
Great video breakdown I also came to love the orville. Just for kicks would like to see you do a breakdown of the 80s show the A Team. still one of my favorite shows of all time.
Hmm, I've never seen the A-Team and know it only by reputation. A quick Google search reveals that it is free to stream on Tubi... I'll be honest, doing an overly thorough breakdown of a somewhat forgotten 80s TV show does seem like something I'd have fun doing. It... may happen. Just got to get through 98 episodes first!
Interesting and worthwhile thoughts, though I agree with some of the earlier comments. In regard to the dismissal of religion, I'm sure it might seem like it's too cavalier or heavy-handed from a contemporary viewpoint, but from the Orville's standpoint it simply stands to reason that the human urge toward religion has atrophied. From my perspective, and echoing sentiments already posted, the attitude toward religion is a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, my criticism is totally subjective. I probably agree with a lot of MacFarlane's views on the subject (and am not particularly religious myself), but I just feel like there's a more interesting way to engage with the issue.
I'm a huge fan of DS9's treatment of the subject, where religious beliefs have a place alongside secular ones in a futuristic society. Maybe that's why I was a little disappointed that he dismissed the topic so definitively. It just felt like there was more fertile worldbuilding to be had and more interesting stories to be told.
Love to know what you thought of season 3.
The Orville was **always** good, and **continues** to be good...
That is all.
I'd argue the Orville was always good, and continues to get even better.
Orville was always good. Just slightly goofier in the first season. But it really gets the trek vibe.
The Orville, is where the spirit of Star Trek lives
I have always wondered what those 2 words you Americans use "malt eye" actually mean.
Is it an abbreviation of malt eye pull?
I'm not sure if you mean "multi", which is only 1 word & an abbreviation of multiple, in which in both cases the "i" is pronounced the same, such as "in, tin, bin, with, sit, etc.
Illiteracy is of concern to me, as it is getting worse.
The Roman Latin words" semi, hemi, demi" also use the "i" as I have listed above. All their words with "i" pronounce it only 1 way. Nor did they split the syllables to make them sound like 2 words.
The "eye" sound comes from the Greek letter "y", which in all of their words sounded the same way. The closest letter they used to get a sound similar to the Roman letter "i" was the letter "e".
Unfortunately, the "y" was given the "i" sound at the beginning & end of words in the English language, thus giving it 2 sounds.
This also occurred with the letter "i", but it had an "e" placed either immediately after it or at the end of the word, signifying a change in the sound.
There are still nations which are still true to the Greek & Roman Language pronunciations reflected in their spelling, such as Dutch & Indonesian.
42 years in the United States here and I've never heard someone mispronounce "multi" as "malt eye". Maybe that's how they say it in Canada and/or Mexico, I suppose.
It's meant to be Star Trekish COMEDY. LOL
I have to disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the new season. The spark (humor, chemistry) is off, and I don't like some of the newer characters. I do like some of the themes that were tackled so far (suicide, populism in politics, PTSD, etc) but I feel like something is off with the show. I also wouldn't mind if some of the original cast members returned. I don't know, I'm just not feeling Season 3. Maybe ep 6 will change my mind or something.
Agreed up until episode 6 which was amazing!!!!!!
I’m vaguely aware of this show.. I pretty much assumed it was like a parody comedy of Star Trek.. Iv never heard anyone speak about the show and I don’t think iv ever seen anything on social media so iv had the impression it’s not that popular
The Gordon time travel episode was one of the more darker science-fiction stories I've ever seen made into live action. There's literally nothing funny about deleting a loving family from existence because rules. I love how this show found its place. And I think a large part of that has to do with everybody's hopes when they saw the trailers for Star Trek discovery I mean say what you want I'm about as far as looks are concerned discovery is eye candy. But when it came to filling that void that shows like TNG and Voyager filled.it not only fell flat downright defied it. And then Here Comes a TV show meant to be funny but also a love letter the old Star Trek.
Yeah. That one was hard to watch, but a really fantastic take on the many moral dilemmas surrounding time-travel.
Malloy bortus and Isaac is my favourite character
I like the first season more than the current season. I wish they would just give creative freedom to the creative people instead of executives. I liked the show because of its fun and funny atmosphere.
Do you think there are particular undesirable traits of season three that can be attributed to "executives" or did you hear someone complain about "executives" somewhere and thought parroting it would make you sound/feel smart and/or edgy? Asking for a friend.
The Orville was always good. The second season was definitely better, but the first season had some great episodes. Yeah the pilot might have been a little rough, but most pilots are. Good video nonetheless.
I'll argue Season 1 was overall better... more willing to experiment with its tone, trying different things, different themes and genres, the humor was detrimental to one or two episodes where it went into "these characters behave too stupid for me to take this serious" but Season 2 played it too safe, we get one or two big CGI budget 2 parters with the big SciFi stories and every other episode is the same type of romantic comedy sitcom thing over and over with 5 minutes of obligatory SciFi plot in the B-Story.
I hope Season 3 turns this around, does the SciFi plot as the A-Plot and the character stuff as the 5-10 minute B-Plot.
Season 1 is far from perfect, but it has something for everyone to fall in love with, Season 2 feels like somebody said "we need to appeal more to the female audience, MORE ROMANCE!" ...
...but this is nitpicking on a high level.
Compared to the garbage Star Trek is unapologetically delivering for YEARS now, even the worst of Orville is Shakespeare and worth re-watching over and over while i can not bring myself to be even remotely hopeful for Strange New Worlds.
If you had told me 10 years ago that i would DREAD them making a new show about the ENTERPRISE with Captain Pike ... i would have declared you insane, but here we are.
It was a great show right from the first episode. Shawn expresses a view one gets from fans fairly regularly but he is--and they are--just wrong about it. Everything that has made THE ORVILLE so special was right there from its beginning. The writing got better as it went along but it didn't improve by abandoning what it had been.
From the start the show stumbled a bit, jokes and writing were meh, but the show started to find its footing in season 2 and it got good. Season 3 looks like it’s continuing that momentum. It actually became the Star Trek that it’s considered to be better than the actual new Star Trek show on Paramount plus. Can’t wait to see more.
The Orville didn't "get good". The Orville got better. It was good right from the start.
I'm really confused by your comment about how you have a problem with the way the orville talks about religion.
I literally can't see anything wrong with the commentry they make there
Presumably, the narrator/writer of this video is religious and is not aware of all the suffering caused by organized religion or knows about it but doesn't care. Not hard to predict he'd be on that side of the aisle given his out-of-the-blue/senseless whining about Discovery.
Your right I get a Babylon 5 feel with this show. Not totally but stories are pretty damn good.
*YOU'RE
I just cant wait for season 4 now 😔 I honestly think the season 3 finale was anticlimactic compared to the rest of the show. He should do more serialized runs- the 2 parter was prolly my favorite episode out of all of them
Thank you for mentioning my all-time favourite ScFi show "Babylon 5" in a correct and respectful way. The Orville is known to emulate Star Trek (but soes it better), but some of the stories lean heavily towards Babylon 5. Joe Straczynski, I think, would be proud of this Writers Room.
I think everyone forgets that the first 3 seasons of TNG weren't that great. This might be an accident but this shows paralleling that as well.
Yeah, shaky first seasons are kind of the norm in Star Trek, aren't they?
Not watching this yet, because of spoilers.
But midway through season 1 I was snoozing through the serialized trope heavy stories.
But I forced myself to keep watching because “people say the Orville is really good”
And OMG the season finale was genius.
It’s a concept that Rick and morty and Star Trek have played with but with less impact.
“mad idolatry” is a magnum opus of science fiction and a vision of hope for our current age, where religious fundamentalism is unleashing its death throes: as Enlightenment values backslide into flat earth conspiracies, sprawling disinformation networks, science denial, and nihilistic resignation to capitalist realism.
I'm happy you stopped yourself from getting spoiled, and I'm glad that you stuck with the show through the early growing pains! I agree that "Mad Idolatry" really felt like the show hitting its stride. Be sure to comment again when you wrap up season 2, I'd definitely be interested to hear what you thought of it!
It's ironic that The Orville is better and more Star-Trek than shows like Star Trek Discovery.
Klingon-esque? I say the Krill are more like the Jem'Hadar.