BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER IN MEN: WHAT BPD LOOKS LIKE IN MEN
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2020
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Borderline Personality Disorder in Men often looks different than it does in women with BPD.
Due to the differences in how men present, alongside research and cultural biases in diagnosing Borderline Personality Disorder in Men, men in need can truly suffer.
Jail time, substance abuse and treatment for anger are often what we see in men with BPD, while women with BPD who are in treatment have a very different experience.
This video explores what Borderline Personality Disorder looks like in men, and why understanding the difference matters so much.
@drkimsage on IG
wwwdrkimsage.com
My experiences
1. anger issues simmering
2.enmeshed/toxic relationship with mom, but also father issues
3. cold/distant/emotional unavailable
4. sex sex sex/alot of passion
5. Difficulty expressing feelings/needs besides anger
6. projecting/blaming/gaslighting
7. inhability to deal with stress/pressure leading to instability/aggression
8. previous signs of self-harm, suicidal behavior
9. substance abuse
10. mistrust/controlling to manage feelings of abandonment/pain
11. isolation
12. wounded inner child hiding behind a stoic demenour (vulnerability = weakness)
13. needs alot of love but too scared to express it, pushes you away/feeling undeserving/unworthiness
14. emptiness
15. high conflict personality
16. low Emotional Intelligence, comming across as lack of empathy
Wow many things you mentioned they are also part of my experience 😢 my partner is very in need of attention but I have to give it to him the way he likes it, when he wants it (included intimacy). If by any reason, I contradict his will, there's a concrete risk of a harsh verbal fight where he says terrible things and behaves uncontrolled. The last quarrel, for example, he convinced himself that I didn't want to prepare lunch for him and therefore he experienced it as a refusal and began to verbally attack me threatening to destroy everything in my house. He yelled that he cannot stand me anymore, that I bother him with my questions 🤔, that I don't let him breath... and left harshly , slamming the door and telling me that he will return to me my stuff when possible.
At first I didn't understand why he accused me of actions that I had never done I had always supported him because I did it with love but then I realized that on his part it seemed there was no thought for me except when something was needed to him, I don't know if I can make myself understood...
WOW. Ticks ALL boxes. Sex addiction is definitely one too
This is great. My god how did you put this list together? I hope you didn't have to deal with this. As someone who has had to deal with an obsessive stalking male bpd I see most of these in him, however he only showed anger when splitting.
Also passive aggressive behavior, emotional blackmail. re:Sex, but total lack of intimacy. But of course what can one expect with someone with the emotional intelligence of a child/teenager.
RUN 🏃🏻♀️
TRUST ME
THANK YOU for the commentary on men with BPD. Im married to one and its hard to find channels that don't focus on women.
It's about time that men with BPD get some attention. I never really believed that this was a woman's disorder, or at least not a majority female disorder. Guys need help as much as women, but receive it less often. Thanks for the clear explanation, Dr. Sage, and especially for your compassion.
Alot of men have this.
Who cares about men. I don’t.
As a male with BPD, I agree.
I appreciate that you support diagnosis of BPD in men - SO tired of the misdiagnosis
You are so welcome - I would like to do more on this topic for men...please don't hesitate to share your own experiences and expertise:)
@@DrKimSage
There seems to be a lot of ongoing confusion regarding NPD vs BPD in men.
And there seems to be an ongoing sexist approach where, because women are more likely to internalize their pain and men more likely to externalize, we always get the NPD or antisocial diagnoses.
However, I’ve seen and dealt with a lot of legitimate narcissists, and there are fundamental differences in how they handle selfishness and why.
Narcissists seem to aim their motives at maintaining their narcissistic supply in those around them - and they’ll manipulate and use everyone to maintain it - because their self-worth is dependent on it.
Borderlines (like me) are desperate for intimacy and connection, but have such a trauma-based sense of aversion to it that abandonment seems inevitable. And, yes, we end up making those predictions come true by pushing people away.
However, what I have noticed is that, while both have a broken sense of self - and both can exhibit self-loathing tendencies without their “vampiric use of those around them”, here’s the biggest difference that I’ve seen:
If you have a narcissist with their partner (significant other) and a borderline with their partner at the edge of a roof…
If both the NPD and BPD fall, the narcissist will pull their partner over to save themselves…
The borderline would rather fall - because he or she has been thinking about it enough and knows that, even if they survive, their partner will probably leave them anyway.
It’s hyperbole - but also not.
The incidents of suicidal and “reward deficient” behavior in people with BPD is staggering, which is why most of them have constant thoughts of suicide, even if they never do anything - and the recklessness is all part of toying with that and gambling with getting some sense of stimulation from impulsivity to break the stagnation of depression.
I don’t think people realize that the common cause of childhood abandonment or abuse that appears to yield BPD feels as pervasive as that old experiment where a chimp abandoned at birth lays down in the corner and dies.
The difference is - the BPD hasn’t died - they’re just the walking wounded forever.
To the uncompassionate, BPD men are supposed to “get over it”, but BPD women are treated as histrionic as well.
Regardless of the double-standard in society, they either sort of grow out of it as they get older, the PTSD-like symptoms continue to affect them and lead to erratic relationship behavior typical of splitting and push-pull nature of people with BPD, or they find enough distractions and things to suppress the symptoms enough to maintain some decent relationships.
I’m a man with BPD, and it’s not exactly a thing that ever really disappears. In my opinion, though, cognitive behavioral therapy is probably the only solution.
But, aside from the misdiagnosis in men away from BPD, the only thing that I think is damaging is how easily people set confusion between Narcissists and Borderlines. We’re both vampiric - but Narcissists are outright selfish. I don’t want to be grouped in a bucket with the antisocial criminals nor the selfish - we just want a viable treatment option.
Is there a cure or long-term viable treatment option, though? From so many sources and articles, it appears that, at least in the past, people with BPD are treated as pariahs because we’re difficult and have trust and boundary issues - which all interfere with reasonable courses of therapy.
YET - no one wants to be miserable or lonely or in pain - they/we just want to be happy like everyone else. Anyway, that’s my life-long take on it all.
Yes dude yes
My nephew is diagnosed as manic but I'm convinced he suffers from BPD. When you stated it comes from fear of abandonment it really resonated with all I know about him. His behavior became even more difficult to deal with when his mother, my sister, passed away from a sudden heart attack. But I'm not able to reach him. No matter what I say or do, he abuses drugs, alcohol and everyone around him. Now he's in jail facing serious charges. I'm now even more unable to get help for him. It is sad to say the least.
Dr. The reason it is that woman are mostly diagnosed with borderline is because men are most likely diagnosed with narcissism; it's a defence mechanism against borderline personality disorder
Dr. Kim, thank you for providing this informative content! I am 42 and only recently learned of BPD after being diagnosed but thank goodness for the diagnosis because the more I learn about this, the more clarity i gain when looking back at my life. I cannot explain to you the shame and guilt and remorse I feel at times when I have acted out in anger or loneliness. The things I have done; the things I have said. :(
So for people like you who create content like this, I applaud you. You don't know how valuable the work you do can be to someone out there!
Thank you so much for sharing this - it's so good to hear that you are on a healing path, and yet I am so sorry for all you've endured. This diagnosis in particular is truly missed in men- and missed and misunderstood for so many of those who struggle -and for so many of us who love or were raised by those who struggle. Please take good care, and work on releasing your shame - there is so much healing that comes once we accept ourselves, in spite of our wounds, and work on healing our stories:)
Same bro, I'm 39 and I look back at all the relationship I fucked up or the stores I got banned from (hahah)... but at least we know where to focus now!
well said, I'm 59 and have lived with this since my early teens. the shame, guilt and remorse can be soul crushing. For me the moments of "rage" are still there. 3 months ago I broke 2 fingers in my hand after punching a mahogany coffee table I was sitting on. I don't think they will ever properly heal. I've finally reached out and have a therapy session booked for next week. stay strong and know you're not alone.
Did you never mean it at the time when you abused those people? Sorry, I’m just trying to understand.
Yeah well they destroy lives especially children's and then pretend remorse? How does that work? Is there even a proper treatment for this?
Everything you described for a man with BPD would also be captured under the diagnosis of NPD. This can cause confusion because BPD tends to have a good prognosis whereas NPD does not. It should be mentioned that BPD patients tend to wrestle with guilt quite a bit which is different from NPD that is shame-based.
Hello Sonia do you mind me asking, how does that manifest itself? I don’t understand wrestling with shame is that more pride?
@@annepennington1230 when an NPD person is caught in a lie for example, they do not feel guilt but their shame is activated which kicks in their defense mechanisms to either become more angry or act grandiose.
This is where the ICD system, which is used in most countries outside the USA, is vastly superior. It has scrapped all of the old personality disorders and instead bow records traits and severity on a dimensional, spectrum type model. It avoids trying to shoehorn symptoms into arbitrary personality disorder categories like the DSM does, which often have significant overlap anyway. The ICD system allows for a much more holistic approach without the stereotypes that come with the various DSM personality disorder categories.
Very limited perception. Recommend Sam Vaknin for much deeper awareness.
@annepennington1230 bpd and npd are not exactly the same although they both involve similar symptoms. Both involve insecure attachment issues. Thier all in the same cluster though so it's complicated
I am crying a lot watching this video.. I have been hurting for 8 years now and I genuinely think I suffer from BPD and depression.. I saw 2 psychiatrists for 1 hour each, because I begged my doctor and when in front of them I couldn't even explain myself properly because I was so stressed out that they were not gonna take me seriously.. now I'm stuck seeing a psychologist who just doesn't really do anything but remind me that I want off myself on a daily basis! sorry needed to vent because it just becomes so hard at one point
I think my ex has this, everything he said he was afraid of he made happen. I feel so bad for him. I wonder how it can be healed.
Tough to heal if you’re still close I wouldn’t say “I think you have bpd” but maybe recommend counciling or therapy in regards certain things or a thing you noticed with him but do it in a compassionate way if your still close or talking
Maybe let him see his daughter
@@shnpio he has to face his problems face on and he is living a lie. And be willing and take the help. He also realize he is mentally a child
Dbt workbook and or therapy
It’s a spiritual thing. Therapy isn’t going to help.
I think my fiance has BPD traits--as well as his diagnosed TBI and PTSD. This can be very challenging. On the one hand he's brilliant, on the other hand in men BPD traits tend to manifest as anger and narcissistic Tendencies. This is true of him.
When he's not engaging in these things he's very loving and empathetic and insightful and a deep person, also playful and wonderfully creative.
But the TBI (traumatic brain injury), PTSD, and the Borderline traits, plus narcissistic tendencies make it very hard. Thankfully he responded to my urging him to get back on medication and find more relevant and effective therapy. But it's three steps forward then one alarming big step back. Were it not for the effective medication and the very great therapist he found, our relationship probably wouldn't have survived, which would have been tragic, because we love each other very dearly.
I’m dealing with the same.. my bf has a tbi from 2 strokes; he spent 1 month in acute care and 3 months in rehab.. plus sever addiction issues due to trauma as a child and young adult.. he angers to easily, impulsive, has difficulty working a full week ( he does construction , a physical outdoor job) that I’ve always said is way too much for him. He can’t get out of bed the entire weekend. Also narcissistic, enmeshed w mom .. At 47 what man lives at home? Can’t go get help due to no insurance. It’s so exhausting , but I relate as we do get along so well and when we are good it’s good. But when bad - I’m the punching bag
I wish you all the best… 🙏🏻💛
Hows that working out now
Ho my gosh my ex had me and other lady fro 14 yrs omg hiscdisodercwas is still severe I hadn't seen him forc4vyrs after he got caught then ouch he's still got ot and I can't. Batebthe man in my life again
@@kristen9827 get out,,,,,love, your future self
Some brain damage is really just too damaging. I give it a year but you may hang around for three. They won’t want to lose supply
I've always known I was broken. I always kind of hoped it would go away or i'd grow out of it but now I am just worried this aint happening.
I'm 27; got no family / friends to fall back on pretty much and it legitimately feels like "this is a few steps away from ending up homeless"
I hate myself, feel like a burden etc. Just existing I feel like a weighted blanket wrapped over everyone I meet - and the more I love those people the more weight starts pushing em down.
I have one friend left. I think he might be around purely because he witnessed my upbringing first hand - even lived with me for a bit while teenagers.
I really don't do well in workplaces; because I got so sick of putting up with people making fun of me / manipulating me or just in general kind of pushing me to do things via social pressure I didn't really want to do outside of work all throughout my life.. so when it comes to a boss trying to tell me to do stuff my limits are EXACTLY where the law draws the line.
I've had bosses tell me to work on public holidays; in a packed out store while claiming they can't pay the public holiday rates.
Another one told me "we dont do lunch breaks here" whenever it got busy, but ignored the fact he kept the place severely understaffed and it was a 6 day weeks / 3AM start job. With that last boss I was just so far done with all the bs; treated like a "nuisance" for wanting a lunchbreak.
Pretty much shamed by every person who works for being lazy. It always came down to "low wage employers treat their workers like garbage - and when I get treated like dogshit at home; by my friends.. I'm not coming to work to get chewed out for a laughable amount of money"
If I wasn't so volatile emotionally, i'd probably be able to get through university.. but 18-25 it felt like my mind was just in a washing machine - it had no fkn idea whats going on. Now I know, just can't control.
Hey man I have bpd too. I hear you and I'm here if you ever want to talk.
Hope you're doing better, man. I've lived with being "broken" for a LONG fucking time. It's something I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. "Normal" people have NO idea.
A very good explanation - I've found borderline personality disorder is one of the hardest to understand and treat. I'm sure it's at least part of my issues. I've suffered with addictions and clinging to past relationships that even I don't understand. Your brain says"this is crazy, let go and move on" but your feelings of wanting to keep the relationship going are overwhelming.
The clinging to past relationships drives me mad. I was obsessed with my ex to the point it was all I thought about when I was with an amazing women. I used that as a reason to break up with her and now my attention shifts to my more recent ex. I'd love to be present..
@@hormetichealth4102 It's maddening for sure - I still think about a woman that I only had a several month relationship with 40 years ago - she even bubbles up in my dreams occasionally (crazy). I've gone to counseling, read a number of books, gone to seminars and looked at similar cases to understand my behavior. It's so hard when you feel something you know is insane and you have to use your brain to override your heart.
@@Sutterjack u need to research Limerence !….and then, Fawning🦋
Thank God I found you. He stopped taking his meds. Walked out without telling me. I don't know if he's dead or alive. And I'm going to let go cause I don't want to ever be hurt again like this. Thankyou so much for this. ❤❤
Dr Kim Sage ! It’s Melissa McEwan I was a patient of yours. I have truly come full circle as my mom has just sent me one of your videos. Wow I’m so proud of you!!! You were the best dr I’ve ever had. Love you lots thank you for all your help. You are the real thing.
Hey Kym, great erudition on the subject of BPD , there is so much crap out there on the subject, I am a male 53 years old diagnosed with this mercurial condition a year ago. You have described my life to a tee, I have come to the the conclusion I am a man child, intellectually a man but emotionally still a wounded damaged three old. Because BPD is so comorbid I also suffer extreme anxiety, it makes it so hard to get the help and understanding, needed to find a way out, knowing unless I can get help for the child I will continue in the destructive behaviours. I read a great proverb "There is great medicine in the abandon" I know I will grow so much if I can go through the pain of what happened and heal, I have tried several therapists looked at DBT, but none have the true recondite understanding of BPD!!!!
What’s crazy is that shows, movies, and songs have helped me more then any dr, psychiatrist, or counselor has. Hell I can sit here and watch Dawsons Creek and get better. Lol! This is just what works for me for some reason. I keep telling myself to just show up and do the next best thing. I make this my thing. It’s a phrase Glennon Doyl Melton uses.
I get the man child thing only that I’m a woman child who is so super angry on the inside and who talks to herself in public when angry or frustrated. Idk why I do this.
@@annmarie6870hmm maybe I need to reconsider my own mumbling in public but I am pretty sure it has developed the last couple years as a personal defense system like: "mumble mumble...don't f*** with me can't you hear the crazy already? I'm damaged enough I don't want to have more I don't want to hurt anyone else just because I have to dig through my own trauma " seriously like how God made the poison frogs really bright vibrant colors.
Hi sacredclown. you may not remember your comment from two years ago. I wonder what you have learned in the meantime? Anyway, your comment seemed very genuine. I am 48, but was diagnosed way back in 2006. One of the difficulties with BPD is that we still do not know the cause. It is said 80% of people diagnosed suffered some kind of childhood trauma. but then there is that annoying few that didn't seem to suffer any kind of trauma. So how does that work? The next thing is what another commenter has said. BPD is about the self and relations to others. Recently, myself and a few others have been concentrating on TRIGGERS to better get to know this. It is now my theory that ALL BPD triggers come down to one word "devaluing" which is ironic, coz that is one of the criteria for BPD in DSM-V. invalidation, rejection etc are just other words for "devaluing". The core of BPD is about the identity disturbance, the rest is just symptoms surrounding that.
Thank you for your detailed and insightful video. I'm trying to process and recover from an ex who is a kind of cocktail of cluster B flavors. It's very confusing because there was intense love-bombing and big statements at the beginning, but actually supported by very minimal action or actual investment/effort, and he would often go back to this strong, proud argument that he loves me more than anyone and would do anything for me, but I couldn't rely on him to even do basic chores or have minimal expectations filled in behavioral terms. He has a lot of NPD traits and is mega charming, intelligent and socially hyper-vigilant and is generally preoccupied by impressing and winning over complete strangers and being seen in a noble light, a weird kind of crossover of some histrionic traits, while also more gracefully one-upping people in almost every situation with grandiose heroic stories and specific impressive witty references from his rich collection of personalities and past lives (careers, hobbies, cities, languages, moods, vibes, etc - he has every kind of self in there). While his general qualities upon first encounters are intoxicating and very superficial, motivated by fast-laning relationships/friendships with as many people as possible, he is quite calculating and analytical when he is sober at home alone. But yes, he has intense alcohol issues and when he drinks, that's when the emotional tides start to turn in all sorts of unanticipated directions, with a mixture of a) intense vulnerable pain/emotion/humor/tears/poetry expressed very lyrically b) feigned intense emotion (it really felt like sometimes he was acting and reading lines when saying nice/profound/apologetic things) and then c) say and do very problematic hurtful, angry, threatening and disturbed things when he would drink on the heavier side (quite often). He used a lot of emotional blackmailing and threats that he will go off and suffer, or potentially run away (and start life with a new name/personality) if I didn't do what he wishes, while I know he had suicidal and anorexic tendencies in the past (he still doesn't really eat "normally" - just once a day if that). He constantly seeks praise, validation and compliments, but expects it for very status-based and superficial things and is obsessed with his clothes/appearance/brands and being seen/documented at the right events/places. He had a troubled childhood/alcoholic family, was in jail, changes careers every year, constantly seeks novelty, drugs, experiences, cool references and to be seen/accepted/esteemed by making provocative, smart statements right at the start of meeting someone to immediately secure an impression. All of this (especially the alcohol, double hidden lives, and lies) was very hard and now the difficult thing is for me is my strange intuitive sense that he actually didn't really care about me, and was just somehow clinging on this empty narrative, while he was actually much more narc/histrionic in that he cared far more about impressing others. and that maybe despite the intensity, vulnerability and poetry of our relationship, perhaps it was all a strange concocted lie.
Very confusing.. Exactly what I went through with my recent x.
So charming, almost addictive. Feels empty without him. But was totally manipulative, felt like all a lie. Not only is he so so very messed up in the head,, he has mine jumbled now too.
I need help Doc. You pretty much described me to a T. My ex described me as Jeckyl and Hyde and how one part of me loved her and the other part hated her. The thing that i really wanted was to be reassuranced from a place of caring and a strong figure when im in my weakest moment and not especially not be attacked when im going through my unstable moods because if i get attacked i get even more pissed. I just always wanted someone i can truly emotionally rely on and not have to keep my guard up all the time.
Thank you so much for all the comprehensive diagnostic criteria for this personality disorder. It has helped so much that you have been able to explain it all with so much detail and with examples. This information is so invaluable so we can try to hopefully help loved ones and ourselves act constructively on the BPD journey. It’s so important to understand and unpack some of this. Previously I had been confused about how the fear of abandonment manifests itself looking at the diagnostic criteria and getting confused with other terminology. I see now the fear of not being good enough, the potential of being replaced or cheated on, and being hurt again (associated with abandonment) really does dominate the mind of someone with BPD to the point of becoming a reoccurring and difficult issue “especially in close personal relationships” It is also really hard to see beyond what might be traits vs a personality disorder when you are trying to look into this sort of a thing for the first time. Sorry I did not comment about the other criteria and just dealt with what’s I’m struggling with the most at present.
Thank you for this! I was diagnosed with BPD last year and I have a gut feeling my partner has it too, but I wasn't sure if it was just me trying to project my diagnosis onto him. He is literally everything that you described, except for his sense of self.
Is it common for BPD to experience psychosis? Mine managed to erase my boundaries to the point of being in video calls with him all day where he would suddenly start accusing me of having another man in the room and somehow convince me to keep him on the line and take the abuse. He didn't care about my emotional health or the fact that I was in surgical recovery. Unlike my NP exes who were fairly easy to leave because of their overt selfishness, my BPD is so good at love bombing that he almost has me convinced of his sincerity until he makes another unreasonable demand or starts on his "just tell me the truth" gaslighting campaign. He keeps saying he loves me, but at this point I know it's just a lie he's telling himself to justify clinging on so tightly. I just want this chapter of my life to be over, but he keeps pulling me back in without me even knowing how.
I am so sorry - it sounds so exhausting, hurtful and confusing. Yes, one of the possible symptoms of BPD is a stress induced type of psychosis...please take good care of yourself:)
Maybe not psychosis, but paranoia. Paranoid that you'll be unfaithful even though you haven't done anything wrong.
@@thefrog4990 No, he had psychosis. Paranoia doesn't include hallucinations.
@@kaedatiger Oh well then yeah, it was probably due to stress. That's crazy though.
Or drugs.
I'm so glad you did this video! Very informative and calls attention to the bias of how BPD is seen. Hopefully in the future, psychologists remember not to automatically rule out BPD when a man enters their office.
The gender biases are so f'ing stupid sometimes, like there are plenty of female sociopaths and clinical psychopaths too. Far too much of the entire field is subjectivity being masqueraded as if it were scientific fact.
Amen
phew all of this is my ex-husband. he's diagnosed Bipolar 1 and PTSD, however, i am CONVINCED that it's a misdiagnosis (not the PTSD, the BPD. My mom is legitimately bipolar and it's completely unpredictable when it flairs up). His "manic depression" isn't just out of the blue, it's triggered by his own self destructiveness. Whenever he feels like he's losing control of a relationship, he turns to the bottle and starts pushing everyone away, gets suicidal, normally ends up in jail. It's such a predictable cycle. It's such a confusing thing to explain to people. He's not evil or even a bad person. I actually really love/like him to this day (we have children together). We get along great... until he implodes. I moved to a whole different state to get myself and our kids away from him. I truly hope he takes my advice on getting a reevaluation on his diagnosis, not just for his sake, but our daughters.
Helpful description. Fits someone I dated to a T. Though many would casually throw the narcissist label at him, I didn't think that fit. Especially with how he could be very loving and apologetic. I picked up on the splitting early on, but it was so confusing to me. His intense reactions when I broke things off only make sense to me when I look at it from his abandonment issues, and that not getting affirmation from me any longer was viewed by him as pure cruelty.
Excellent overview! Thank you 🙏
My second wife had issues with being bipolar and BPD.
We met on an internet dating site. She was divoriced, no children, didn't like her job, liked to workout and was much more attractive and younger than first wife. We got married in two weeks and I moved her in.
I had know idea, but found out that I was also bipolar and BPD. Marriage only lasted a year, then a couple more going back and forth. Learning so much about myself was painful, but gave me a new level of self awareness.
When I was a child, it was an angry distant existence. My favorite dream was to be adopted.
Not being held and told that you are loved from the moment you are born is so damaging.
Thank you Dr for providing your insight and those who post and support. It's so important to know you are not alone.
I really appreciate you pointing out this about men.. I've been called a liar for years.
Information presented here is helpful and presented with enough compassion that I freely take it in without offense. I am nearly 60 now and diagnosed with ASD around 6 years ago. I've spent a lot of my life confused in regards to social interaction, interpersonal relationships and emotional regulation. I now recognize the trauma, physical abuse and disorganized attachment trauma experienced in childhood further complicated my condition to a great degree. I can easily check 8 out 9 boxes for Quiet BPD and accept that is the likely explanation for what I experience. With so much overlap between symptoms of ASD and BPD, it can be difficult to sort one from the other. When I listen to the criteria for them and listen to the experiences of those with ASD with BPD, I can absolutely identify. It leaves me wondering whether there might be a closer connection between the two than is clinically recognized? I know there are those diagnosed with both High Functioning ASD and BPD but is it not possible there is a closer pathological connection? I personally am willing to work diligently on managing my BPD traits because I want to know close, healthy relationships and emotional stability. I am motivated. The ASD is mine to keep, I need to understand it, own it and embrace it because it's me. There are parts of it I wouldn't trade for the world. The BPD is a real bitch.
Fascinating. Never saw it this way. This has definitely adjusted my perspective on male behaviors including my own. Thank you!
It took me more than 10 years to figure out what was going on and once I did, I shared the information with him and he agreed with me! We're having up and downs but things are getting better. We've been together almost 17 years now. Your description of BPD behavior validates my observations.
Well said, this gave me so much insight on a situation. Thank you for sharing your information on this platform.
The video I clicked on before yours was straight out of the gate feeding into the stigma. Thank you for using more healthy and constructive language, not all BPD men are horrible creatures. Labelling us as so promotes isolation.
Very, very useful, thank you.
Does it also seem unfair to you when women with emotions are called "CRAZY!"???🤬🤦♀️
It makes me very sad when other women validate a man's claim that another woman is "crazy" just because she brought up how she felt about something he said, for example. I know that the issue of women being complicit or in denial when it comes to the issue of their own abuse plays into it, but it still makes me sad.
I hope one day all of us who have been victims of abuse will be brave enough to stand up for each other no matter what.
I agree with you. “Crazy” is not only unfair but completely dismissive of the complexity of a person. It’s hand-waving and invalidating - the comment of a person who has given up on knowing anything about someone (or their plight), and who stamp a label on them right before leaving. While I know the cultural norm (unfortunately) is to say those kinds of things to women, labeling a man “psycho” is the mirror of that. That’s what society does though - especially in America - labels and dismisses. There are some good people out there, just keep that in mind whenever you can.
no one should be called crazy. everything has a reason.
But it science that says this diagnosis is highly prevalent in women the very same science you’re using Doctor. Emotion before fact🤷🏿♂️
My wife Mock's me when I cry she calls me crazy all the time sorry I don't feel sorry for women
thank you💚✨spot on
I think that men don’t go for help as much as women. That’s why men aren’t always in the count of those with BPD. Trust me. I’ve lived with a man for 36 years and he was diagnosed early in our marriage. My therapist told me he had it after he and I were in marriage counseling as his anger was so misunderstood. My dad was seldom angry and when he was, he never went into a rage.
Your exceptionally good. Wish i could find a therapist with your understandings and ability to communicate these understandings
I’ve been diagnosed 2 months ago, not afraid of abandonment but afraid of losing my stuff!
Very informative ! :)
Good information thank you
Thanks for this video!!!!!!!!!! I am a male with BPD and I can not agree more. Men are often misdiagnosed. Because their symptoms are more agressive/etc in nature. :(
You just described my ex. Always thought i was cheating, would follow me up college or the gym, couldn't eat with my mum..
He did drugs and you never know what you were going to get with him.
He definitely mirrored me when we met too. Id even say love bombed me.
Borderline personality disorder in men superb article good read the differences
I am afraid my partner (40 y.o) could suffer from this disorder. 😢
What I see in him is:
• difficulty expressing feelings in a classic way
• need of constant attention in the way and moments chosen by him
• any contradiction leads to a verbal fight where he loses control and hurts a lot
• after the storm, he seeks peace by playing down what happened
• excessive food craving at night
Yet for love I have always tried to indulge him in every request, I have a very calm and altruistic personality so taking bad words from him every time has not been easy.
Sometimes I also had the impression that he showed affection only for his own needs and not because of loving ME. It's hard to explain...
During the last outburst, he left slamming the door and yelling he won't come back because he can't stand me anymore. Yet the first months he sent pictures of me to all his friends telling them how happy he was.
12 hours later he was seeking attention on WhatsApp as nothing ever happened.
Then in 24 hours only 2 short text messages.
Last year, when he disappeared he was already seeing another woman so.. i don't know how to feel.
Either BPD or narcissistic or both, but honestly do you need a diagnosis? He left and was already with another woman? You feel him being loving to you is meeting his needs, not yours? He's toxic! I'm enmeshed in a 12 year relationship with a BPD. It's hell. Save yourself. It will never be a fulfilling relationship.
@@juliettailor1616. Interesting you’ve been in a relationship for 12 years. I am in one for 36. We are both retired and it’s more challenging as we are together a lot. Isn’t it amazing that, through my experience, he would never show the anger that I have seen to anyone else but me. The target! My therapist asked How can you take home for so long? We were ships in the night. I worked during the day; he at night. How do you deal with his anger? Bless you.
Get the hell away from him if you haven't already. Absolutely destructive behaviour and so disrespectful to you
💕Morning! Please feel free to share your thoughts or experiences on MEN WITH BPD! 💕 xoxo
Question: would that "novelty" symptom include buying things you're obsessed with? My brother and I both have BPD. He's struggled with drugs and I've always struggled with keeping money in my pocket. Like I always spend it on music related things as thats my obsession. But I've never struggled with substances outside of cigs and drinking.
Yes. Bad with money.
I've always struggled with substance abuse. Trying to consider that my dad was the bpd parent and abused drugs, I'm wondering if that's why. Pretty sure my mom had quiet bpd.
It's very hard for me to resist spending money on things that are objectively stupid and pointless. I know that I'm going to get tired of anything I buy in a few months at best, or not be satisfied in some other way. At this point, I've conditioned myself to not part with money unless I'm buying something that improves my quality of life. If I wasn't a pot head that is also addicted to nicotine, I'd have no expenses at all besides gas and groceries. I do enjoy alcohol a little too much, and so did many people in my family. I avoided the pit of alcoholism but it's very much in me. Honestly, it's hard to go a day without some kind of substance. Without nicotine my stress level is unbearable and I act the fool. It's embarrassing at 30.
I did not suffer from substance abuse until I quit what was obsessive training at the gym. To be fair, I did become addicted to the high of being on steroids. God mode activated. I trained for 6 years naturally before caving in to the temptation I always felt. I figured I should make something out of my obsession with fitness. Instead I went bat shit crazy but that's another story.
Dr. Kim, I believe my father has BPD. It's the only thing I have learned about that remotely comes close to describing the unpredictable behavior I experienced from him growing up. Now having stepped cautiously into a role of an "advocate" at a distance as his health has declined, what I discovered was that it seems in 2016 he was diagnosed as schizophrenic with anti-social personality disorder. Everyone who handles his care follows that diagnosis. He also has some form of dementia too. I'm wondering have you ever heard of anything like that? There is nothing in my experience with him that would signify anything schizophrenic, especially the hallucinations part. I have not heard any of the staff at the assisted living facility that he is at describe him hallucinating either. I'm wondering if his drug and substance abuse could play into his current diagnosis? At the point he received this diagnosis he would have been in his mid 60s and done numerous things to himself that I don't even know about. It's been very difficult to get answers either as the psychiatrist who issued that diagnosis became extremely defensive when I started asking questions. It's also an onion I don't really know how much I feel like peeling back the layers, because of how painful my relationship with him has been. Trying to work with his healthcare providers has brought reminders of the trauma I experienced as a child as I have seen varying levels of neglect, indifference, and incompetence by the healthcare workers that have been involved in his pseudo-care.
Thank you
Most important read
I believe my most recent ex-boyfriend is misdiagnosed. he knows something is wrong - so he went to counseling. He also lied on the intake forms - which he admitted to me - so of course he isn't diagnosed properly. The ex-bf was just diagnosed with depression - again. he went to counseling in the past. same thing. However - he is a chronic alcoholic and he exhibits all the signs here. he also has mild Tourette syndrome. He always seems very angry. says he is empty inside. always overwhelmed. he uses that word a lot. I tried to stick around because I do care deeply for him - but he claims nothing is wrong with him and won't even seek treatment for his alcoholism. He pushed me away. on purpose. I know is is not a narcissist - however BPD fits very well. oh well. I hope everyone with BPD gets the help they need and don't resist help. many people care for you. stop being stubborn and accept this.
I think my father has it. He was a terrible father. I felt like he treated us (Family) like enemies and that we were his servants. He was abusing alcohol and he basically does not know how to hołd a conversation. He is always tense, his relief is religion, he prays daily and basically lives like a constant martyr. He was absent both physically and emotionally. I, as 33 male have terrible self-esteem. I don't know who I really am what I really like. I am even sexually confused. I feel complete void and emptiness like a child that was abandoned. I quit alcohol, drugs i work out and may appear as I have my shit together but it's a facade. I often feel I want to disappear like I never existed. I feel I have no worth whatsoever.
I’m so sorry. Seek therapy, stay strong. I hope you get through it
I was told I had ADHD all my life, and depression anxiety. My dad was borderline. I have dealt with suicidal thoughts since I was maybe 13, I fear abandonment in my dating, and all my relationships are toxic.I feel constantly empty like I have a black hole inside me. I have a drinking and cocaine habit to help numb that. I feel pretty bleak about my future, im tired of fighting.
Hi brother I am the same.
There’s always a choice .
How are you hanging in there now?
If you don't respond I'll feel bad about my choice of words.
I got the ADHD diagnosis at first too. Didn't take long to realize that was not the way.
I use a lot of drugs too man, too much.
If you can't kick the habit, try changing it away from cocaine. Anything better than cocaine. It will drive you crazy.
Be well.
Imho- Persistent anger/agitation is often overlooked in men. It should be seen more often as "overemotional". That being said, I am not referring to explosive anger, but instead, mild but persistent anger/agitation. Too often, anger is only viewed as problematic in men once it meets the criteria of explosive anger. I think lower intensity but persistent anger/ agitation should fall more readily into the criteria of passive aggressive manipulation and emotional disregulation. That being said, the manipulation used by crying when diagnosing women, I feel, is exaggerated.
Wow, im.gobsmacked!!! You just described my childrens father. For 20 years I tried so hard to understand my ex husband, he was extremely abusive, controlling, and couldn't bare to be alone. I felt like I couldn't breathe. But on the other hand, he was so loving. Hence why I stayed for so long. He is extremely maipulapulative, so im confused, he was misdiagnosed in my opinion, he was diagnosed bipolar the manic type.But he changes his personality and image 😖 My children suffer mental health, I tried to fight for my kids when I left him in the court system, but he manipulated not only his lawyer but also mine, to the point both lawyer were actually working for him but I didn't know....the final order was that I alienated the children against him and he was awarded sole custody of our two youngest. To top it off, they were forcefully removed, and I have no access to them even though I was main caregiver since birth. Currently I have not seen them for 9 months, he tells them they can see me but wont allow them to get on plane, he is an exceptionally cruel person. I am working very hard to save money for a decent lawyer, I have found one who was raised by a mother like my ex so she understands and can see through the charm and manipulation. I now have a little hope that my kids can be saved.
How did he manage to do that? Women almost always get primary custody.
@@juliettailor1616not the full story I am assuming 😊
I have a question. I've noticed in your other video you pointed out that the parent is frightened, frightening. I feel like my mom had quiet bpd and my dad had self destructive bpd. She was frightened, he was frightening. Does it work the same way when it's not coming from just one parent ?
These men need serious help, & cause trauma in their wives, children, girlfriends, etc and unable to maintain romantic connections. They fair better with medications & intense therapy to become insightful & recognize the destructive interpersonal breaks. Many of these men, are unfaithful always looking for the next best thing, while nothing ever working out. The ones Ive known have serious volatile tempers and outburst, are not capable of being faithful, and sabotage every chance at having a successful relationship. Thank you for this video & I hope men with these issues will take heed and responsibility for getting the help they need, & stop hurting women who become close to them and give them a chance..
As a man with BPD I must say you are spot on correct. I have just given up on relationships as my way of sparing prople from having to deal with me because it is indeed unpleasant.
@@danwison6058 don't cut yourself short brotha, we can show signs of remission in many ways especially if we have a dedicated partner and there was a study that shows that after 16 years of stable relationship with both parties willing to work on it together 99% of patients entered remission. If you have faith and keep working on yourself, maybe someday you'll find the one and be able to work on it with them to lead you to a stable life. At least that's what I choose to believe for myself. Good luck out there :)
My mother caused it so…women need to check themselves, your feminism has destroyed the family. Check mate
I’m so sorry you were hurt by someone with this disorder. Please understand they are not trying to hurt you. It’s a mental illness that they did not ask for. They are sick and suffering and should be regarded as such. Shaming and blaming them for the symptoms of their disease is like blaming someone who has narcolepsy for having a seizure.
I think my ex(?) of 2.5 years with whom I recently broke up has petulant borderline personality disorder. I didn’t realize this until recently. I knew he had a mother wound, that he was extremely avoidant, but he also puts me on a pedestal only to knock me down; seemingly tries to manipulate me when I am leaving (he is desperate for me to stay and doesn’t understand how manipulative he is being).
I am looking into this more and more because I do not want him to continue down the road he has been on.
He no longer lives with me because the situation got too bad, but we are still close and I want to support him in his self growth
I wish I would have known this before. It makes sense some of the way he has behaved, I can tell there is pain I underestimated in him.
Experiencing the same. How do you know he is not a covert narcissist ?
@@birgitkruuse2074 I don’t
@@birgitkruuse2074 I cut contact last week and have no hope left for him
@@birgitkruuse2074 I think he was. I left him.
@@birgitkruuse2074 and I cut off contact
BPD Looks bad in men & Feels even worse... Sigh...
We, man with BPD, should get more attention.
I notice that they feel a sense of ownership with their family members, like even one of their kids hanging out with friends too much will feel like a small abandonment for them.
My doctor got me hooked on prescribed drugs thanks !
I can confirm it's difficult at work the relationships, I quit my last job because of that, it became unbearable
My father has high functioning bpd, he stalks me even though i cut him out of my life, im trying to find more information about bpd in men so i can understand him better
What is the central type of therapy for people with bpd? If I recall correctly, it starts with a d. Also, do you, Dr. Sage, actively take clients with bpd? Where are referrals for this disorder if not? I realize this is an old thread. I happen to be in southern CA-
Many thanks- Katie :)
5 years......I Hate You, Don't Leave Me, good book on the subject. Healing 2 years out........really complicated situation. Never again.
You can have bpd and still be involved with a woman that is in fact crazy. People can also be untrustworthy. Just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean they're wrong.
This is where the DSM really isn't very good and the ICD, the system used in most countries outside America, is vastly superior. The ICD has abolished all of the old personality disorders and replaced them with a dimensional, spectrum type model that records traits and their severity. It removes the arbitrary, stereotypical nature of the DSM personality disorder categories (many of which have massive overlap anyway) and allows for a more holistic, empirical approach. It removed the stigma and danger of misdiagnosis of associating certain personality disorders with gender. It records what's there and doesn't try to shoehorn people into very flawed and reductive categories.
my son recently told me that he has been dx'd w Manic Depression.....but....you just described my son's behavior in this video. Further, his father also had many Manic Depressive symptoms, and was dx'd, but again....the raging and the use disorder make me wonder if he also has BPD.
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I'm convinced my last boyfriend had BPD under his untreated bipolar. Wow was that traumatic. Meanwhile my mother is BPD. I have a lot to figure out!
I have a question and this goes for men and women… when you look at this and the world we live in … with all the highs and lows of the world and societal norms…. would it be safe to say that Every human has some sort of disorder and can have traits of each and every disorder…. BPD, NPD, bipolar.. manic… and so forth…. I can list these traits in myself and those I have encountered
Its s lucrative industry so the labels and the diagnosis will continue. It's also a way of playing the victim card so no personal responsibility. DSM is a scam.
Both people with BPD and NPD will lack object constancy and have primitive defense mechanisms such as splitting, projective identification, idealisation and deevaluation? So the one of the ways to seperate it is by looking at the fears and desires underneath all the defenses? I think it is very difficult and even more so in men. But I think it is very interesting. My ex-husband, I always viewed him as being narcissistic. But working in the psychiatry as a nursing student added a lot of nuances. Yes my ex-husband, deevaluated me, insulted me, made everything my fault, did nasty things when we broke up (like making a false child report), and then balancing between apologizing when he is good and putting me on a pedestal and then going back to the same after a few months. I always thought it was more narcissistic, but if he was a woman perhaps I would have seen it as borderline behaviour. Yes he comes across a bit arrogant sometimes or just strange, but men are also more cultured to that and especially where he is from. But most of the time when he is good he was the man who did everything for you. Just having a real hard time with being critized and when he felt you pulling away. Not saying it is okay, I have just been very harsh in my regard of him as some anti social personality. But perhaps in these moments it has been the borderline fear of loss being communicated in a fearful and aggressive manner. Who knows. I think this is a really interesting topic.
I thought my husband perhaps had vulnerable narcissistic behaviors but he also has BPD behaviors. I am of course not a doctor,just speaking of behaviors observed and wanting answers. My husband is not interested in getting outside help, says he's too old now to change, he's 66. I have some fears if the smear campaign he has in mind though.
@Helena very good description of many of the behaviors my husband has, thank you.
I thought mine could be narcissistic but it just doesn’t fit 100 to me. I don’t know what it is, but there is something. Has your husband ever been diagnosed
@@helenah9192 no not to my knowledge.
Nah, it sounds to me like he does have NPD vs BPD. BPD men are reckless, especially with relationships, and they seek to control things in their lives, but they aren’t so outright manipulative as to devalue people entirely. They push them away and then beg them to come back.
Narcissists are damaged inside too, insomuch that they are highly dependent on “narcissistic supply” to maintain their sense of self-worth.
People with BPD have an erratic sense of self-worth that is fluid - because they have no real static sense of identity. Their sense of identity fluctuates with everyone around them - either to match or in opposition.
While people with BPD are manipulative out of fear of losing others (or a sense of self that they get when they have others), I find that narcissists are manipulative merely to use others a pawns to whatever needs they have.
But both people with NPD and BPD tend to have a shattered sense of self deep inside - a shattered foundation of self-worth that relies on those around them to prop it up.
At least, that’s what I’ve seen from all of my experiences with other narcissists in contrast to my own BPD.
The incel trend has been so harmful to males who have borderline personality disorder. Culturally we see the narcissistic tendencies in men, but it's still more borderline than narcissistic in terms of behavior and emotional dysregulation within the "incel" phenomenon. ✌🏽
They're more vulnerable narcs.
They would be able to feel more empathy and walk in others shoes if they were borderlines.
Instead there's a mix of victimism and everyone owes me, should be loved and adored for the sake of existing.
And you'll see many of them were mama or grandma boys
@Red Leeks I see what you're saying, at the same time vulnerable narcissism has a lot of over lap with borderline in terms of attachment behavior.
How do you deal with bpd and ptsd and the same time?
Can you please make a video with women who have OCD and PTSD? I have been diagnosed with PTSD and my sister and mother may think I have OCD. I’ve been talking to my therapist about it, but we are not sure yet since I havent opened up to him about everything. It is said that OCD can be created from PTSD. And whereas I have always had PTSD since the age of five I don’t remember having OCD symptoms till I grew older, slowly seeping in from the age of 12, but REALLY set in at age 19
My boyfriend does this and I am BPD but were both going to go to therapy etc
How do one tell the difference between covert narcissism and BPD? Is DBT of any use of the latter? Interested as my relationsship is struggeling and I am about to invest time and money on DBT for my beloved partner 😢
Men with BPD tend to act out in violent ways, and thus they selharm indirectly.
Seeking fights, acting recklessly and engaging in violent subcultures, may be expressions of BPD.
Just some thoughts...
I kive this with a man who has these EXACT same symptoms
I think two of my older brothers are like this and I have been a target of their insecurity all my life. It is so tiring and hurtful. I cut off family and this is one of those reasons. My mother is a covert narcissist with a bit of bpd traits.
With a BPD man right now it’s a headache
Lost my fear of abandonment.
Everyone split by now.
This doesn't really fit me. Novelty seeking, that's about it. What does male quiet bpd look like?
This sounds like my Ex🤔he was acting like someone that’s I wanted to have just a act so I won’t leave him but everything back fire now we not together no more😓😪
Your also forgetting health/diet and a balanced endocrine system. So many people are in a chemical soup nowadays. Stress/atomisation etc..
My mom acted out and my male friends acts in.
I'm surprised, though there's the implicit reference to externalising, there's not more explicit reference to s*xual behaviour. Men being, generally, more physically oriented than women 'normally' , I would expect that emphasised in bpd. Or is it because it also becomes more emphasised in bpd women too so gets evened out between the genders in borderlines?
I wonder ,would a borderline personality disorder parent create an atmosphere that is unpredictable and so affect their children who then become borderline themselves? Is this condition caused instead from a disorder in how borderlines process their emotions which causes instability in their lives. This condition must be difficult to treat and could be mistaken for bipolar depression.
Whilst these are good for understanding
I've never met a perfect person yet!!!
We all have to try and understand
I know a young man with i think to be BPD as im not a psychiatrist. The tell is that when i ask how his day went he will alway say that it went great or it was the worst day of his life. There is no grays with BPD, just blacks and whites.
This and narcissism are so similar
Help me I have the same issues but i became permanently distant i cant my family or fiance anymore ive done horrible things and im worsesning im becoming more violent and careless im becoming close to impulsive murdering anyone that comes at me with anger my bpd is the worst negative stigma and im loosing my control of myself ive broken phones tvs my car windshield with my fist i crashed my car with my other car help me get a grasp of my self im becoming obsessed with murdering someone that makes angry enough and there is voices in my head making enemies for me
Go to a good priest get cleansed then find a good homeopath and take the remedies. You need to completely change your diet as well. No drugs/alcohol etc..
Men, gay men, all men actually. :-) Just wanna throw that out there! Love the vid!
Enough with the gay stuff
It’s bad I need help I really do but like I don’t deserve it at the same time because tomorrow I think I won’t and the I’ll forget I ever watched this see me when I’m dead
Male BPD is misdiagnosed as ASPD and female ASPD is misdiagnosed as BPD... Gender-bias in diagnosis?
Is BPD a lite form of ASPD?
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Well fuck me!
I'm 90% sure I suffer from this so bad alongside the fact that I identify as Panboy(Gender Identity) and I have been going through hell in a relationship that has pretty much repeated all of my childhood traumas with my bipolar depressive suicidal single mother...
I don't even know how I'm still alive for I have been dealing with suicidal thoughts for over a year and the only thing that has kept me going is the hope of singing a song about Hope, Darkness and Love...
How can we convince a bpd partner to go to the therapy? He thinks that he doesnt need anybody
You can't, but leaving them and no contact may prompt him. Consequences bring change . Enabling does not.
Not an ounce of sympathy for my BPD exs’…..some ppl with BPD just cannot be helped ever….
Ex's that's plural.. Multiple bad CHOICES no sympathy for you as well... If I had to guess that non loving lack of understanding is very triggering for someone with a mental disorder like this I can only imagine how many times they expressed a trigger that you would use to provoke a reaction to play victim to your toxic friends who share the same heartless energy empowering each other "oh girlfriend u deserve better he will never change". I can tell you deserve nothing but the best.
How do I tell my husband I think he might have this?
Monkey branching works. And then under the protection of another male, let him know and serve him divorce papers and a PFA. Happens all the time. He'll go crazy, but then your new guy is justified shooting him. Tah dahl Life is so simple. Only ever care about yourself and use everyone for resources and support. That is the way of humanity.
Trust when I say the disordered ex female would regularly use the crazy, weird, freak, labelling on me.
Works both ways like everything, it's a collective hive pattern of energy manifesting from the trauma, it doesn't preference or pigeon hole genders.
That would be and is, utterly ridiculous assuming.