It will be interesting to see if the Kohler puts additional load on the transmission, pulleys and belts. The Timemaster can barely handle the torque from the 223cc, and I don't think they upgraded much if at all from the original 8.75 hp engine. Please keep us updated if any problems arise from the swap. Looks sharp though!
The idler pulleys have an update kit available. The original idler pulleys are stamped ends w/ a plastic center. The upgrade kit replaces both of them with cast pulleys. I believe they are the ones used in the turf master. Also on the first time masters the engagement lever on the handle was plastic, toro later changed it to metal. On my unit I've done both of those upgrades and never had an issue. And fyi the original engine wasn't 8.75 hp it was 8.75 ft-lbs of torque, then the updated briggs engine is 10 ft-lbs of torque. The Kohler engines that are drop in replacements are as follows: The Kohler CV 224 is 11 ft-lbs of torque The Kohler CV 200 is 9.5 ft-lbs of torque The Kohler Cv 173 is 7.5 ft-lbs of torque The original briggs engine was underpowered. I've used both the 8.75 and 10 models and the 10 is much better. The prices on these mowers now are crazy...I'd probably buy the scag sfc-30 used over this mower in the future. I used the CV 200 since that was the only motor I could find at the time, it was during Covid and everything was sold out. I was lucky to even get that one. I would probably buy the CV224 as long as it's in stock. I think it's only $50 more. I'm not sure how much more wear/tear it will be on the components of the mower, This mower was one I bought to fix and flip. The last time I talked to the owner he was very happy with it but I haven't had any update in 2 years. I'm not a fan of the briggs on these at all...on another unit I bought to flip one of the valve guides slid out and I needed an entire top end of the engine. The mower was used residentially and only 3-4 years old. I'm also not sure on the conversion from ft-lbs of torque to hp, All I know is hp is unreliable and foot lbs of torque is much more reliable. However I still have a hard time going to ft-lbs of torque. I want to say hp ratings were eliminated 10 years ago or more. If you remember when shopping for equipment you'd find the exact same motor on different equipment with wildly different hp ratings. I've had quite a few Honda GC160's and have seen the exact same motor rated anywhere from 4.5 hp to 6.5 hp... Thanks for watching. If you're thinking about doing the conversion I say go for it and do the pulleys too. I believe the pulley kit is now around $200
I've been looking at places to get a Kohler for my timemaster. I see there the CV224-3002 but online it says PA-CV224-3002. Will this still work? Is it the same motor just everyone leaves the PA out?
I am planning on doing this very soon. I purchased the CV224 instead. The mounting bolts you used are the original that came with the briggs? did you use thread locker? what was the torque spec if known? and did you have to tap the deck as well as the engine mount or just the engine mount
Was there a big difference in cutting performance. I wish you had a video showing the cut performance or cut quality between the two that would be awesome.
There are other videos showing this same engine on the Toro in talk grass. It handled it like a champ. The cut quality should be exactly the same if not better in taller grass
So if I understand correct, the specs on the output shaft and key are already the correct size. And the only modifications required are tapping treads? That would be great! What size threads did you cut and did you use the original bolts?
More or less correct…the factory bolts are thread cutters. A lot of mfg uses those to prevent cross threading in the production facility. They work great you just have to make sure you don’t overdue them as you could strip them out. That’s why I like to start the threads. FYI if I was doing this again I’d buy the 224 cc motor not the 200…the power on the 200 cc is plenty but for the extra $50 might as well get a bit more power. And correct the crankshaft diameter and length are the same as factory using the Kohler as a replacement so no spacers or anything else is needed.
Nice video, I plan on installing the Kohler CV224 as well. My TM is 8 years old and the original 190cc BS is losing compression. All parts are new on the TM, but original tranny. I use mine for mainly residential use. Did you remove the battery (if yours had ES) & is there a way to wire the key ignition as a kill switch? Not a big deal, was just wondering…… Again, nice video 👍🏼
This one wasn’t electric start but it doesn’t really matter to remove it or not. I’d probably remove it to use for something else if it’s still good. As far as I know Kohler doesn’t make this motor in an electric start version. As far as the kill switch you can pretty easily wire it into the engine. I did not wire it in because I didn’t have the wire connectors on hand. This motor is designed to operate from the lever, choke it and shut it off from that lever. To wire it you would reattach the engine ground wire to the motor and the I would make a Y connector and splice into the shut off by the throttle control.
It's not bad to do, It took me less then an hour and if it's your first time doing something like this I'd expect less then 3 hours if you're mechanically inclined.
It can't be either 1 inch or 20 mm. Those are two very different dimensions. 25 mm is very close to 1 in ( 0.984") but even that would not work if the pulley is a 1-in bore. 20mm is 0.787". Again, close to 3/4", but not close enough if the pulley bore was 3/4.
When I made the video I misspoke but it was too late to reshoot. Kohler lists the motors crankshaft as 25mm and this motor is awesome. If you’re looking to re-power yours I’d highly recommend this motor. Thanks for watching.
@@olivierflhd6965 Not discontinued, during the pandemic lots of part shortages...but you should be able to find them really easy know. I know ebay has them, I bought mine from brand new engines and try small engine warehouse
Yes, it's just not electric start. Kohler does not offer this motor in electric start as far as I know. With how I did the install it would be the exact same thing. You could wire in the key switch as on/off but it isn't necessary.
@@minstuphinycompost6068 It won't work, the crankshaft diameter and length are very different. On the time master there are only a few motors w/ the same spec crankshaft, of 25mm x 3-5/32 anything else would need to have adaptors/spacers made and I couldn't find any when I was doing the swap. If you're going to do it the only way to really do it is w/ the Kohler or the Kawasaki FJ180 motor. I bought my motor from Brand New Engines website but Small Engines Warehouse also has a good selection. Small engines warehouse also has one briggs with the same crankshaft size but it's a much small motor and would be extremely underpowered. I wouldn't even attempt to use it as it's only 160 cc
Im looking to do the same with my Timemaster. The 8.75 Briggs is not the best now. But i feel its a poor engine option even from new . What is the capacity of the fuel tank of the Kohler? Is More than the Briggs?
No idea what the capacity is but Kohler's specs will tell you. I'm also not sure how fuel efficient it is compared to the briggs but it's a lot better motor.
Correction at 1:45... " it's a 1 inch or 20mm", should be "it's a 25mm diameter shaft".
You’re right!!!! Thanks.
25mm@@jamesbubnick
If you replace the engine, you might as well install the one gallon gas tank instead of keeping with the smaller one.
It will be interesting to see if the Kohler puts additional load on the transmission, pulleys and belts. The Timemaster can barely handle the torque from the 223cc, and I don't think they upgraded much if at all from the original 8.75 hp engine. Please keep us updated if any problems arise from the swap. Looks sharp though!
The idler pulleys have an update kit available. The original idler pulleys are stamped ends w/ a plastic center. The upgrade kit replaces both of them with cast pulleys. I believe they are the ones used in the turf master. Also on the first time masters the engagement lever on the handle was plastic, toro later changed it to metal. On my unit I've done both of those upgrades and never had an issue. And fyi the original engine wasn't 8.75 hp it was 8.75 ft-lbs of torque, then the updated briggs engine is 10 ft-lbs of torque. The Kohler engines that are drop in replacements are as follows:
The Kohler CV 224 is 11 ft-lbs of torque
The Kohler CV 200 is 9.5 ft-lbs of torque
The Kohler Cv 173 is 7.5 ft-lbs of torque
The original briggs engine was underpowered. I've used both the 8.75 and 10 models and the 10 is much better.
The prices on these mowers now are crazy...I'd probably buy the scag sfc-30 used over this mower in the future.
I used the CV 200 since that was the only motor I could find at the time, it was during Covid and everything was sold out. I was lucky to even get that one. I would probably buy the CV224 as long as it's in stock. I think it's only $50 more.
I'm not sure how much more wear/tear it will be on the components of the mower, This mower was one I bought to fix and flip. The last time I talked to the owner he was very happy with it but I haven't had any update in 2 years. I'm not a fan of the briggs on these at all...on another unit I bought to flip one of the valve guides slid out and I needed an entire top end of the engine. The mower was used residentially and only 3-4 years old.
I'm also not sure on the conversion from ft-lbs of torque to hp, All I know is hp is unreliable and foot lbs of torque is much more reliable. However I still have a hard time going to ft-lbs of torque. I want to say hp ratings were eliminated 10 years ago or more. If you remember when shopping for equipment you'd find the exact same motor on different equipment with wildly different hp ratings. I've had quite a few Honda GC160's and have seen the exact same motor rated anywhere from 4.5 hp to 6.5 hp...
Thanks for watching. If you're thinking about doing the conversion I say go for it and do the pulleys too. I believe the pulley kit is now around $200
@@jamesbubnickI got the Scag sfc 21 I heard the 30 was still having a lot of issues I got it with the 224 Kohler I love it
I've been looking at places to get a Kohler for my timemaster. I see there the CV224-3002 but online it says PA-CV224-3002.
Will this still work? Is it the same motor just everyone leaves the PA out?
I did this upgrade but blade stay engaged what I need to do thanks.
Good rundown thanks.
No problem!
I am planning on doing this very soon. I purchased the CV224 instead. The mounting bolts you used are the original that came with the briggs? did you use thread locker? what was the torque spec if known? and did you have to tap the deck as well as the engine mount or just the engine mount
25mm not 20mm
How is this install doing today?
Was there a big difference in cutting performance. I wish you had a video showing the cut performance or cut quality between the two that would be awesome.
There are other videos showing this same engine on the Toro in talk grass. It handled it like a champ. The cut quality should be exactly the same if not better in taller grass
Nice
Glad you liked the video. Thanks for watching.
So if I understand correct, the specs on the output shaft and key are already the correct size. And the only modifications required are tapping treads? That would be great! What size threads did you cut and did you use the original bolts?
More or less correct…the factory bolts are thread cutters. A lot of mfg uses those to prevent cross threading in the production facility. They work great you just have to make sure you don’t overdue them as you could strip them out. That’s why I like to start the threads. FYI if I was doing this again I’d buy the 224 cc motor not the 200…the power on the 200 cc is plenty but for the extra $50 might as well get a bit more power. And correct the crankshaft diameter and length are the same as factory using the Kohler as a replacement so no spacers or anything else is needed.
@@jamesbubnick hey, how did you torque the engine pulley? Can't figure out how to hold the shaft. Do you know the torque spec? Thanks man!
@@4seasonslandscapingservice192 stuff a small rope in the spark plug hole
Nice video, I plan on installing the Kohler CV224 as well. My TM is 8 years old and the original 190cc BS is losing compression. All parts are new on the TM, but original tranny. I use mine for mainly residential use. Did you remove the battery (if yours had ES) & is there a way to wire the key ignition as a kill switch? Not a big deal, was just wondering……
Again, nice video 👍🏼
This one wasn’t electric start but it doesn’t really matter to remove it or not. I’d probably remove it to use for something else if it’s still good. As far as I know Kohler doesn’t make this motor in an electric start version.
As far as the kill switch you can pretty easily wire it into the engine. I did not wire it in because I didn’t have the wire connectors on hand. This motor is designed to operate from the lever, choke it and shut it off from that lever. To wire it you would reattach the engine ground wire to the motor and the I would make a Y connector and splice into the shut off by the throttle control.
I want to tackle this and have the engine, where about dare you located by chance?
It's not bad to do, It took me less then an hour and if it's your first time doing something like this I'd expect less then 3 hours if you're mechanically inclined.
It can't be either 1 inch or 20 mm. Those are two very different dimensions. 25 mm is very close to 1 in ( 0.984") but even that would not work if the pulley is a 1-in bore.
20mm is 0.787". Again, close to 3/4", but not close enough if the pulley bore was 3/4.
When I made the video I misspoke but it was too late to reshoot. Kohler lists the motors crankshaft as 25mm and this motor is awesome. If you’re looking to re-power yours I’d highly recommend this motor. Thanks for watching.
They give many different variations of this motor do you have a sub number that goes with it CV to 24 - whatever it might be
That is the size of the motor, the CV24 is the largest motor.
CV224-3002
Nice repower!
Nice video, look such a nice motor, is this the cv 200 or the cv224 ?
It's the cv200 but if you can find the cv224 you might as well use it, When I did this it was almost impossible to get any version of this motor.
@@jamesbubnick they are discontinued ? or just rare to get it?
@@olivierflhd6965 Not discontinued, during the pandemic lots of part shortages...but you should be able to find them really easy know. I know ebay has them, I bought mine from brand new engines and try small engine warehouse
@@jamesbubnick big thanks !
Will that motor work with the electric start Timemaster?
Yes, it's just not electric start. Kohler does not offer this motor in electric start as far as I know. With how I did the install it would be the exact same thing. You could wire in the key switch as on/off but it isn't necessary.
@@jamesbubnick thank you…
Did you have to change the transmission
No, the transmission was ok. Just the motor was shot.
Will this fit toro timemaster 20199 model?
Yes it will.
Im planning on putting a honda engine from a HRX217VKA onto the timemaster. Do you think it would work?
@@minstuphinycompost6068 It won't work, the crankshaft diameter and length are very different. On the time master there are only a few motors w/ the same spec crankshaft, of 25mm x 3-5/32 anything else would need to have adaptors/spacers made and I couldn't find any when I was doing the swap. If you're going to do it the only way to really do it is w/ the Kohler or the Kawasaki FJ180 motor. I bought my motor from Brand New Engines website but Small Engines Warehouse also has a good selection. Small engines warehouse also has one briggs with the same crankshaft size but it's a much small motor and would be extremely underpowered. I wouldn't even attempt to use it as it's only 160 cc
Im looking to do the same with my Timemaster. The 8.75 Briggs is not the best now. But i feel its a poor engine option even from new .
What is the capacity of the fuel tank of the Kohler? Is More than the Briggs?
No idea what the capacity is but Kohler's specs will tell you. I'm also not sure how fuel efficient it is compared to the briggs but it's a lot better motor.
Do you have a Model number and serial number
What did that cost you?
Around 500 USD, and 1-2 hours of labor