God of War: American mythology
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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God of War 2018 playthrough: • God of War
God of War Ragnarok playthrough: • God of War - Ragnarök
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Intro
6:55 Let's talk about trolls
13:01 You ever hear about nokken?
17:02 Our elves are different
23:59 In conclusion
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Royalty free music in my videos sourced from filmmusic.io, incompetech.com, and composed by Kevin Macleod. Used under a Creative Commons license ((creativecommons.org/licenses/b...)
Additional music by Stevia Sphere
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Used under a Creative Commons License - Ігри
TB Skyen: "God of war doesn't represent my culture well."
Me, a greek: "Second time?"
Hur går det nere i Grekland?
Yeah... That aside, I'm glad the franchise has matured in its storytelling and all, but also I kinda wish we had gotten what the Norse pantheon is getting throughout the multiple games taking place in Greece. Not that there aren't things to criticize, but this is still leagues above whatever it was that occurred in the first games. Y'know, it would've been cool to see a more fresh/nuanced take on the Greek gods/culture even if it had its flaws; with characters who feel like people and not irredeemable assholes simply to justify Kratos being angry and killing everything that moves. Of course, that's not even an option anymore seeing as though there's hardly anyone left in game canon lol. I know a lot of people are fond of the first games because nostalgia but this is largely the reason they had always been unappealing to me as a Greek person- though part of the reason was also that it was an ultra violent manpain-begets-revenge narrative that had been so clearly built for a male gamer audience and literally nobody else. And who can forget the "press the button to thrust while banging Aphrodite" sequence- because of course.
@@chiefpurrfect8389 hey, for greek gods being actually cool people, you should play Hades.
@@heasxd I have and it’s wonderful! And it’s my go-to example of what a “fresh take” could look like. Like is it super mythologically accurate? Not necessarily, but who cares when it recontextualizes the gods and their stories in such a fun way?
Edit: here after the reveal of Hades II AAAAAAAAAAAAAH SO HYPE
Chinese person looking at all the medias… *Sighs*
If I've learned one thing from my layman-level interest in basically every folklore I can find information about, it's that _nothing_ is as clear-cut in folklore as in modern fantasy. Even disregarding the lack of "canon," how the same beings and stories and such can vary wildly even within the same culture, there aren't firm lines dividing most categories of being.
Sure; gods, giants, trolls, elves, humans, and so forth are different. But there's overlap, ambiguity, and above all, no consistent rules for what things an "troll" can do that a "giant" cannot, or things an "elf" can do that a "human" can't. Everything is fuzzy and ambiguous, because the kinds of detail that matters to 20th/21st-century fantasy worldbuilding wasn't important (or known) to the people who shared and created folklore.
It also doesn’t help that the English names for a lot of creatures in non-English mythologies usually aren’t perfect translations.
Like hell, even the concept of a “god” varies wildly from mythology to mythology. English uses the term “god” for anything from “an omnipotent universal being” to “some guy who happens to be immortal and otherwise has no powers”.
And then we get vague terms like “demons” which could literally mean ANYTHING depending on the mythology.
“You ever hear about Nokken?”
*Me, who knows about the Nokken exclusively from the children’s flash game Poptropica:* Yes
In Finland we still tell stories to children about a long fingered Näkki that lives in the wells and waters waiting to snatch anyone coming too close. Basically a scare story so that kids don't go to fall and drown.
There's a relatable sadness as an Irishwoman when it comes to looking at what little is known about Scandanavian folklore. Christianisation really took so much from our ancestry and left us with barely anything. And what little is left is deeply Christian. Though the conversion of our mythology was done as part of the spread of the religion throughout Ireland instead of by someone somewhere else later on. It's all rather unfortunate
It's so strange being Celtic (Welsh here) and knowing so little of our own historical culture. So much of what we do 'know' (and almost everything that's in media is just made up by someone posthumously, be it the Christians, Victorians, or internet.
There is another side to it Irish, Germanic, Frankish and Scandinavian culture all influenced and changed Christianity so your culture also gave something to a religion that was spread all over the world.
I can relate even as a Mexican. So much of mexica (and other indigenous cultures) myths, customs, and history got destroyed because of the Conquista in the name of Catholicism... it's sad that we may never truly know how these cultures were before colonization.
@@The_Jackpurgis You guys give up so fast.
I mean, even if they tried, it’s going to be harder to find actual mythology pre-Christianity. Christianity has utterly won so many myths won’t survive, and even then whose to say we’ll treat the remaining myths with care they deserve? Our takes on mythology are the scraps of scraps left, regurgitated into the reified whole.
I love this constructive criticism. It’s cool to see someone who knows the culture talk of how they could of integrated the mythology instead of just saying they got it wrong.
Your mention of trolls having beautiful daughters, it could have fit GOW's central theme of family and flawed parental figures. I can easily see a side quest involving a troll and his estranged daughter who's gone to live with the humans.
As a fellow Dane and Mythology enthusiasts, here are a few things that I would like to add, hopefully for the benefit of further elaboration as well, in case people wanna know more.
The Huldra has one (to 1½) extra features that would distinguish her from a normal human. A Huldra's back is usually hollow, allowing you to see the insides of her body, including ribcage and spine, were you to see her from behind. For this reason (the '½'), they almost always wear their hair very long, to disguise this fact. In some stories, Huldra are as homicidal as any troll, eager to lure foolish men into solitary places and devouring them. In others, and in one particular I remember, a Huldra married a human man out of genuine love (she also politely reminded him that she was his wife willingly, by bending a horse shoe out of shape with her bare hands, when he got a bit too grumpy at one point).
Freja/Freya is not "just" a Goddess of Love or Fertility, but as Leader of the Valkyries (and quite possibly one herself in "actual" mythology), she is also heavily associated with Death and War, and that's not even mentioning her association with Seiðr ('Magic' put simply, but a particular type, usually seen as un-masculine for reasons I am not certain of), as a Vanir Goddess. There is also a minor point, about how Norse Gods to not have various Gods "in charge of" various aspects such as Love, War, Family, etc. like we see in Greek Mythology, where their portfolios give them very focused powers and abilities. Norse Gods are better described as associated with a particular aspect of life, based on their personality and history. Freja, for example, might be a Goddess of Love, but she does not have the power to make people fall in love with each other, like Aphrodite and Eros does in Greek Myths. As such, calling Freja a "Goddess of Love" is somewhat misleading, and it would be more appropriate to just say she is a Goddess (pause) associated with love. This particular point has little to do with the God of War Ragnarok game, but is an interesting enough bit of knowledge I thought to add it.
On the topic of elves and how Skyen describes them, it is news to me that Elves are "hollow backed" like the Huldra, and upon digging a little into it, he's right. I find it interesting that Huldra and Elvenfolk are often synonymous when the Elves *do* appear in the mythological stories (according to what I could find). It is quite interesting how there's a clear overlap in their descriptions, sometimes thought of as the same creatures, and other times not. Probably a tragic result of my ancestral mythology being mostly lost to the sands of time, and what little we have is delivered to us through a lens of Christianity, where we can't always trust that everything was as our precious few texts claim they were.
Well the second point (about Freya) was nailed in GoW. She is the valkerie queen, Sigurn became one only after Freya`s exile. And Freya uses both magic and weaponry. She even resurrects the dead (Mimir and a dead giant), wich connects her to her role as the death godess.
@@user-fd5nz5lo7m And I quite liked that the game showed Freya as a warlike character. I find that side of her far more interesting than the "She's beautiful, so everyone wants to marry her" part... Which is depressing how often THAT is why and how she is part of any particular mythological story.
Re: Huldra and elves: I also get the impression that people sharing and creating folklore weren't as concerned about precise taxonomy as modern fantasy fans are. There's definitely some mess from regional/temporal variation and lost lore and so on, but I don't know that there was a strict distinction to be lost.
Huh, Elves being described as hollow backed is certainly something I haven't heard before. It kind of fits that descriptions of mythological creatures will blend in with each other. Like, there's ambiguity on whether Light Elves and Dark Elves are actually a thing or that linguistically, Dark Elves are Dwarves in Norse mythology. From what I recall, aren't Dwarves in Norse mythology described as being not as humanlike as they're usually depicted in more contemporary fantasy?
interesting, Slavic folklore shares a lot with Scandinavian
Huldra description really sounds like Mavka/Nyavka, alluring beauty, hollow/transparent back for instance
might be that Ukrainian lands interacted with North quite a lot
Im from Northern Sweden, Norrland, and my homelands folklore represents the historical reality of when my people, Svenskarna, colonised this land from the Sami and Lapps. This shows up in our folklores tropes.
My favorite hometown folklore is the tale of Tomten. Tomten is an elf or troll, a forest spirit that lived on our land long before any Svenskar arrived, he is also the Swedish version of Santa Claus. Here he lived with his kin for many years. When my ancestors started to settle and cut down the foresta in the northern river valleys of Piteälven, Luleälven and Kalixälven most of the elves fled from us into the forest and wilds. But not Tomten. He was a tougher kind of elf. So he made a deal with the newcomers. To provide him with offerings of Gröt and butter and he would bless our farms and livestock. Here comes the name, Tomten is named after the tomt. A tomt is a synonym for Gård or farmstead, alternatively lawn. We give sacrifice to Tomten in exchange for supernatural protection. But displease him and he will Murder your cows (like suckerpunch them, not joking), cause mischief and make your life miserable. So dont forget the Tomtens gröt.
In Denmark, those are called nisser, and while they're not connected to stories of colonization or settling, to this day kids leave porridge out for them as an offering, especially around christmastime.
@@TBSkyen In Swedish we also have the word Nisser. Although we call it Nisse. Tomten and Nissar are connected. Sometimes Tomten is called Tomtenissen but that is mostly a very old timey way of saying it. The two words are often mashed together to refer to Santas elves or Tomtenissar.
Also mind you the version i recounted was the local hometown version that im familiar with. Im aware other versions dont have the same trope. Thank you for responding tho!
@@TBSkyen happily continuing the porridge tradition
Näcken is the folklore i have the closest ties with. My grandparents lived just next to water and would always warn me about Näcken and not to go to close to water without them. For me the story was always a nude man sitting by the water playing the fiddle so beautifully you would go into the water to get closer to him to hear it better and so drown doing so. I love Näcken, a good way to deter children from being next to water unsupervised.
I know there is a similar piece of folklore were a horse (sometimes Näcken transformed into a horse and sometimes the spirit of the stream) that lures children to sit upon its back and then darts into try water and drowns them.
@@enider oh Kelpie! I think she is of Scottish folklore. She is by far more popular than Näcken in modern media. That is why i think it is quite sad that the nocken in GoW is nothing like the stories.
i'm not into god of war but this intro was so good that i'm gonna watch the entire video, i like your unscripted animation analysis but your video essays are something else.
It's really good!
Gow is bad and the anime is better 🤓
This is why Gaiman's American Gods was always one of my favorite books. It dealt with this exact phenomenon - gods, Norse gods in particular, being hollowed out and twisted by American culture into caricatures of their native counterparts. God of War's Odin has a LOT in common with Gaiman's Wednesday, but without any of the context or cultural commentary that made that portrayal mean anything.
The trolls are definitely the biggest missed out part of the game imo. From what you're saying their common occurrence could have easily been a frequent and varied check in with how the world outside of the main cast feels about Kratos, especially because of how in tune with the land trolls are meant to be. While Artreus's mother was alive, the world ending last god of Greece may have had a shaky protection from her presence, but now, any trolls that care about their land would have ample reason to fear what an unchecked Kratos might do. And the feelings don't have to be unanimous. Many of the trolls might see Atreus as a rooting feature that makes Kratos no longer an outsider, while the ones that attack you simply refuse to take any risks towards seeing their home become another Greece, and everything in between.
There is evidence of depictions of trolls as being “larger” in norse folklore.
“Op kom den Trold fra Bunde
med Hr. Vilmunds Mø ved Haande.
Og ikke hans Brud alene,
men baade hendes Søster væne.” (The original)
“Up came the troll from the bottom of the ravine, with Mr. Vildmund’s virgin-bride in his hands.
But not just the bride, but both of her sisters too.”
(My rough translation.)
It goes without saying, that the troll (or at least his hands) must be enormous to be able to hold all three ladies.
I think this is the kind of troll Tolkien drew from: A stupid, simple, strong creature, akin to Centaurs in Greek myth, who represented the uncivilized, the perversions and “natural danger” of male identity. They are still far closer to what you have depictions of in the video, than what hollywood or other american media has depicted.
My first memorable experience of “this is not my myth” I remember, was when watching the avengers, they battled enormous ice-elementals and called them “frost giants” from Utgard, which was not how I knew the Jotun from Udgård.
And if it needs to be said, God of War drew more of its troll lore from Tolkien's literary grandchildren than his literary forebears.
I saw a tumblr post by prokopetz on this and I figure it's worth repeating for reference in God of War's place in the Sad Dad mythos: Sad Dad stories overwhelmingly feature young girls being protected, not young boys. There are a handful of exceptions, of course, but the fact that the kid being protected is a girl lets the Sad Dad downplay the role of mentor and makes it easier to show emotional intimacy. Because Kratos has a son, he has to act his primary role model for masculinity, which fuels the conflict because the only masculinity he knows is toxic and violent.
I kinda wish they did 3 games cause I was genuinely invested in both Thor and Freyas story's but they both feel rushed.
Could you imagine if instead of Freya just regaining her valkyrie powers off screen we slowly saw her progress in getting all her sealed powers through "fights" we couldve had with her?
Bruh, u asking for an even bigger monster than Sigrun and Gna double teaming
Im swedish and as someone who had a deep connection with my great great grandmpther and still has a deep connection with my grandmother who told me some of the most fantastical and magical fairytales, folklore of my ancestors about trolls, gnomes, fairies, elves, dwarves, dragons, nokken, the norse gods and other mythological beings, it was something i grew up learning and loving.
But the older I got I started to learn about other mythologies and other folklore from around the world, i slowly started to make the connection between the stories and the necessities for some kind of answere that these stories filled in peoples lives back then when science and objectivity wasn’t as fleshed out as it is today
But I also saw that mythologies, stories, folklore and beliefs around the world did evolve and change with time as people and their way of life changed as well.
The gods and godesses of greek mythology specifically have been through several iterations and interpretations and has meant alot of different things and represented different ideas and values to a lot of different people, so gods evolved and changed, some fused together, some split into different beings. Some adopt entierly different portfolios and fill different rolls entierly seperate from what they were before.
Even Christianity and the abrehamic religions that are widely worshipef and believed in todays world is not immune to this. Despite how confirmed and unchanging it seems today.
There has been many different text that have been canonical, retconned and altered with time.
It just shows that even ideas and concepts of mythological beings are never truly stationary in their form.
GOW is a adaptation, it of course never was a 1 to 1 of the mythologies it was a part of and it never has been.
I am sad that they changed so much about the norse mythology that I myself still hold close to my heart dearly, but i also see the process of ideas evolving.
Some creatures that are simply used as fighting machines that only uses the name of a folklore creature will never be the same to one that also carries the weight and meaning behind the same name, that is clear.
But just as the old folkelore creatures of old had a role and filled a function, being a answere and solution to the society of the time and location.
I see that these creatures are just filling a role, a task.
I am disappointed and sad to see them being used to less faithful degree, but I do not fault them for being used to fill a new role.
I do agree that them saying that GOW is a game closely inspired to the mythology of my ancestors is a false to a degree.
It is not, but I do not fault it for that.
This was nice to listen. As a Finn there was lot's of moments "That sound kind familiar." Like the all different types of elves or trolls.
Huge difference compared to norse mytology is how world was made. In Finnish folk lore. World came from birds egg. At the edge of our world was warm lands called lintukoto meaning the home of the birds. The Milky Way is called Linnunrata, "the path of the birds", because the birds were believed to move along it to Lintukoto and back.
Being Greek, it's very funny seeing people point out all the flaws the game has regarding Norse mythology while knowing what it did with Greek mythology. That's not to say the video is wrong, it is very much the opposite, it just makes me think "Wow, God of War is disrespectful to the mythology it's adapting? No way!"
It really feels like they tried to change that though in the marketing. When 2018 god of war happened I wondered how they would portray the Norse gods to make them look like they deserve to get killed by kratos. At
something tells me that if this were the original GoW the devs would have been very interested by the idea of troll maidens. glad we've moved past that phase in the franchise's life
Corey was one of the original gow devs. He directed gow 2.
Luckily for us Kratos is no longer horny!
Another fun adaptation that Ragnarok does to the Dark Elves/Dwarves race is that in the game Atreus does ask why "Svartalfheim" mean "the real of the dark elves" but it's home to the Dwarfs to which Mimir says the aesir can't see the difference between them!
I'd love to hear you talk about Celtic mythology and if any gaps were filled by that mythos in an amalgamation trying to fit the mold of the story
Seems like Norse mythology has ALOT of beautiful horrifying maidens. xD
Well, sorta. Huldra/troll maidens and elven maidens are sort of kind of the same thing, or at least they overlap a lot, including the hollow backs. And nøkken can be both male and female, depending on who it's trying to seduce :)
I came back to rewatch this video after A) bingeing your old "God of War 2018" playthrough, and B) a video specifically talking about "Hades" and the way American pop culture uses Greek mythology to its own ends. In the latter, he goes on a brief tangent about "God of War" and how Kratos isn't all that *Greek* of a character in terms of what he values (in fact, from what I do know of ancient Greece, it feels like he'd be considered a heretic). As much as I love the two recent games, I wish dearly that the writers had chosen to have them reflect more of the characters' respective cultures instead of using them as pre-packaged worldbuilding. I've always loved learning about mythology, I feel like I've learned a lot by listening to people like Skyen, and I want to keep learning as much as I possibly can.
I just finished god of war 2018 and it was such an artistic treat! I’m so excited to hear you talk about this :D
Deities and dishwashers is my new favorite formal greeting
As a swede this was really fun to watch. I enjoyed the familiar depictions of trolls and "Näcken" which I haven't really thought abou since I was a child. Also I don't know a lot of lokal folk lore so I learned a bit from this video.
Have you considered doing a video on the dynamics of the gods and they're representation? Odins thirst for knowledge and insistence on lying for a litany of reasons? :)
Up
To be fair I think God of War was doing reshaping/smoothing out of myths and folklore since very much the beginning of that series of games existing? I would be surprised somebody actually thought that God of War games are to be the source of knowledge and understanding of Greek or North's mythologies. My very understanding of that IP was them taking mythology and reshaping it for Kratos' presence and story told around it. Which by its nature means there will be lost opportunities here and there. There will be things dare I say lost on adaptation.
Personally I think this video is about the potential. About how much they could've done with the things they adapt than just having its namesake had they just dug a little deeper.
Pretty much.
At the same time when it comes to the main gods people focus on they do some very interesting interptations with Odin and thor
I remember back in the day when I was first playing Skyrim and I think that it worked where GOW didn’t was that it was set in its own fantasy universe with inspiration from Nordic mythology instead of throwing down the gauntlet saying that it was adapting it. So it was more fun Easter eggs for people in the know, like Alduin I’m sure was inspired by Niddhog and names like High hrothgar
As a historian who has done some research work on the Viking Age, it's super cool to me to see a more contemporary perspective from someone whose participated in that culture (or what's survived) in the modern day. Excellent video.
I loved this video Skyen. I love mythology and love learning about how different people view the mythology of their homes. I was raised a lot on folk tales, fairy tales, mythology, and have been researching as much as I can all my life. I still love learning about mythologies I'd never looked too deeply at before. Thank you for making this video.
It kinda seems like, when they say they've done "extensive research into Norse mythology", what they're actually talking about is purely the stories specifically about the gods of Norse mythology, and not all of the other interesting things that does not involve the gods.
I'm danish, and got really into Norse mythology when I was younger(it was a phase), and I generally agree with what you said in this video, but it seems like the people behind the game focused almost purely on the gods, while this video seemed to focus purely in things not involving the gods.
That said, as always I enjoyed the video.
This is less about the content of the video, but thanks for gathering all this beautiful art and giving credit. I've seen some of the paintings and illustrations before but never knew who made them.
Thank you for this video. Have had simular thoughts about some of the things in the game as a Swede.
I find the portales of the goods in Ragnarok so far to be really interesting, really loving the acting on Odin in particular, but as you said a lot of the smaller folklore stuff disappoints me a bit.
I have to say, this video was a very pleasant surprise! I have a passion for mythologies from many parts of the world, but norse mythology is probably the one I studied the most (second only to greek and roman). It's great to hear you speak with such accuracy and love about it!
Always love hearing from Skyen on mythology and folk lore!
I mean in defense of GOW, the originals have never been 1 to 1 accurate to mythology, except for the main story beats lol, and i would be a bit terrified at seeing Loki get impregnated
I really like seeing videos like these ones. Its really nice to kinda see things put into perspective.
The troll part seems confusing since they could've just called them a Jotun
The troll's depiction in 9:19 is adorable and I love it
Oh, a mythology lesson! I've been interested in Norse and Viking culture ever since I first played Skyrim when I was college Sophomore. Thank you so much for educating us regarding your culture.
Wow. I've been enjoying the series on the second channel immensely and this is so nice! Continue the good work skyen!
Nooo we need more of these videos I was so immersed that it literally felt like a 5 min video
oh boy im so excited for this! didnt expect my fave creator to make a half hour video about this game that i also love! and skyen is so well educated and knowledgeable, this is gonna be amazing!
as expected, very good video. thanks for sharing your perspective on this!
I can totally see your point, i understand, i would in fact react the same way if somehow the new god of war is set in Brazilian folklore/mythos and they changed everything to suit their narrative
But i also think that, making your own version of that mythology, your own mythos and folklore, is 100% valid, even if they are real, for us now, in the very future someone could just see them as fiction. history is always getting rewritten, sadly, and there is not a lot we can do to stop this "gartic phone-ish" effect (i really did not find a better way to explain my point). but since it is a media that maybe will not survive 10/20/30 years, soon those "fanfictions" about mythology someone made into a game will be erased, forgotten. idk, i think is fun to create your own "universe", to write different moments in time in a different way, right now i'm basically making my own version of the Brazilian mythos, i think the opportunity to make something quite "unique" is way strong than trying to use most of the original as it is
idk, i hate writing long stuff, i can get lost easily, and even more i'm not that good at english, for someone who learned by himself. Point is, even tho is sad to use something as a basis and not use it 100%, or just properly (using the details and concepts of the original), i can't deny is cool to see more different stuff running around in media, i would be angry with a americanized version of Tupã and Anhangá? (basically the all father and the god of the underworld, respectively), yes i would, but i can deny it has my interest, i'd pay to see that even
anyways, i loved the video, even more cuss is the point of view from someone who is familiar to the actual theme
This is a very interesting take on the adaption of mythology, I never really considered the alteration of mythology as cultural appropriation, but after hearing your explanation I think I agree? It's interesting that all of these adaptions of norse and greek mythology never really get any outcry over inaccurate adaption.
But the stories could differ from town to village to city. What inaccuracies? Specifically talking about Greek stories here. I’m not as well versed in Norse mythology but I do think that it was also I primarily oral tradition with only few written pieces left from their times of origin.
Plus, due to Vikings, well, viking, pretty much every white person in the world can claim some amount of descent, so who gets to make that call?
I think it's because both are european and white. It's hard to care for them since they were usually the oppressive ones for most of recent history. Different to how, say, american and african cultures were destroyed or supressed? Something like that.
I mean Skyen said that "technically" it is, but it's a label detached of any emotion. It's not really a moral or ethical criticism for him, just a commentary on the characteristics of the adaption.
@@Jan_Iedema there's not a single village that would depict its trolls like in God of War. For example.
Once I heard that pronunciation, I knew he was genuine lmao
Get this money man you deserve it. Great video. Loved it!
I love this criticism of GoW its valid and comes from a place of love both for his own people and culture and for the game, multiple times throughout the video he states that this is not a takedown telling you GoW is a bad game but rather a flaw that bothers him.
Never played the games but loved hearing this perspective on them
God of war is my favourite franchise of all time and 2018 for the longest time was my favourite game period, and so I often find it hard to hear games so close to my heart being criticised, but hearing TB skyen talk about the idea of a Nokken taunting Kratos through taking the form of Faye, is honestly so good that it gave me chills and actually made me disappointed that Ragnarok didn't do that. I love how thoughtfully you analyse media TB thank you for this enlightening perspective on Norse Mythology and God of war that is so refreshing and unique among those I have seen so far.
As a dane it is both funny and really weird having to hear you go from english to danish names back to english.
Kind of seems like an invalid critique of God of War not being as accurate as possible to the original source material, despite details of the said sources being intentionally vague.
Been a fan of the channel for going on two years and I absolutely love the insight you give into these stories! Any one have a good resource to learn more about Norsw mythology, aside form the Prose and Poetic Edda???
I mean, most of the books I have on it are Danish- and Norwegian language, and I don't believe they've ever been translated so... not really, I think. I'm sorry. Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology is a great prosaic retelling of a bunch of the stories, if you're into narratives.
@@TBSkyen Unfortunate, thank you for the response anyway!
The best way to learn is to travel here i think
Nokken in GoW is Sona in League, nokken in that myth of compelling the person to dance to their death is Sona in lore.
At least on the Dark Elf front, the Dökkalfár are attested to in contrast to the Ljósálfar in chapter 17 in the Prose Edda. There is speculation that they might distinct from the Svartálfar, since they're mentioned in the Prose Edda as well, but you can make the argument that they're just different names for the same group. Although my understanding it's thin ground in the same way as Freya=Frigg.
Don't know enough to put that forward, though.
I wonder if the Kelpie, from Scottish Folklore, shares it's roots with the stories of the Nokken? Thinking back to the stories my granda told me when I was a child there IS a lot of overlap. Mostly the scary water horses but still. A very interesting video, thank you very much Skyen.
Thank you for the fun video!
The nokken seems to have taken inspiration from the English knucken, which was often depicted as a worm or a dragon. They're somehow related, yet nothing like the germanic and scandinavian version.
the most accurate depiction of trolls i've seen are the trolls in david the gnome
i wish i still had my old cd player to watch some of it from time to time
Nice vid! Also nice work making me to want to buy this game little more :D
Hey I know about the Nokken...... sorta.....
My grandfather use to tell us a story about a river nymph/siren named Nokken and how she use to sing a special song to get kid to swim in her deadly river. There was never a lot of detial to the story. It was mostly portrayed as an old German ghost from my great grandparents homeland.
I enjoyed the video Skyen, it was neat to hear your perspective on it.
Great video! Really interesting. What do you think of Berserk's depiction of trolls?
10:29 a part of my childhood I thought I would never find again
As always, skyen always delivers.
For all the fair commentary, i have to thank most for the Valhalla comics and movie
I didnt knew them and i'm having a delightful time
trolderi was my fav kids tv show i just love it soo much everyone shoul know about it
10:29 "Trolderi" also aired in Germany as "Tolle Trolle" and it really stuck with me for some reason.
I find it very interesting as an American to hear this. This is especially interesting since while much of my ancestry is both German and Scandanavian, but I have little to no connection to these cultures.
I can't with the Dwarf Brothers theme in the background, it causes me PTSD episodes now.
this was incredible, you should talk about the free DLC
Had to do the dishes anyways and than bam tb skyrn video, perfect timing
This is personally why i'm uncomfortable with people asking for a Hindu Mythology god of war. Alot of other myths and religions are often misunderstood or viewed only through the lens of fiction and fantasy. And the supposed ending of the God of War franchise makes me believe the developers aren't very aware of their own biases when it comes to this.
A longer video about it, if you please
14:54
Oh, I've seen this one in a game demo recently
The game's called Bramble, it's like a horror game based on Nordic folklore
Great video.
This was a very interesting and informative video! It's a shame that so many interesting lore and design details were changed to fit the game. I'm sure they could have added some of it and still make the game able to tell the story they wanted.
Like, seeing the Light Elves in the game with a hollowed back and being able to see their insides would have been such a cool visual! (and maybe an interesting, shocking twist for Atreus after the first game)
i mean no one said the game had to be 100% accurate to the lore i think it does a good job as using the basic points of the mythology to tell it's own story.
You're right, nobody said it had to be 100% accurate to the mythology.
Am I the only one that thought TB Skyen voiced Ratatoskr? I can't ever unhear it and I love that.
Very interesting video, I must say that it's always interesting to see how certain franchises adaptates ancient stories to fit the story itself. While today we have things like the God of War franchise, American Gods, Supernatural, Percy Jackson and the like, this is by no mean a modern thing. The most famous example is certainly Ovid, they guy that took the ancient myth of Medusa, the monster born from Echidna and from who's magical blood Pegasus and Cryshaores were born into a tragic figure, the result of Poseidon's assault and Athena's victim blaming, as a way to criticize the people in power through showing the cruelness of the gods. Even christianity has suffered from it, from the apocriphal gospels to Paradise Lost, fanfiction writers have always existed, even if the fiction they are writing about was considered reality
Have you tried, Bramble: the mountain king. You might like it maybe, TBskyen it kinda trys atleast a fair bit.
I'm Norwegian-American and first became interested in Norse mythology as a teen, and I was sad to learn that the old religion of my people was almost entirely oral and so, as you point out, what survives was written by people who were not actually part of that community or culture. Thank you for this video, it was really interesting and I found myself getting strangely emotional despite not being religious. Just the connection to my heritage, I suppose, told by someone who is not appropriating, as you (I think correctly) put it.
The nokken reminds me of the Brazilian river spirits who would sing songs and tempt people to drown themselves
I know it's not the central theme of the game, but i would love to hear what you have to say about Hellblade and its perspective about norse culture, since Senua is of celtic (I believe) origin, having been raided by the vikings.
I haven't played the games so maybe I'm missing important plot details, but about the war narrative, we already have the Aesir against the jottun. Replace the trolls with the jottun and BAM you have a pointless struggle between the God(s) and actual giants which frees both the elves and the trolls to be more interesting and authentic mechanics as well as giving Kratos big angry baddies to fight.
It feels like something like this could also be done for all of the fairytales that have been adapted and claimed .. perhaps away from the lands they have their roots in (looking at you disney and every "omg look how dark of a version of this story we found" youtube video)
Regarding Trolls, they aren't that many in Ragnarok, certainly a numerous amount in GOW 2018, from what I came across there is only three, and one isn't really a boss, the other two are random trolls you can come across if you explore.
As an American, I truly hate how much our culture "tries" to adapt things faithfully, but inevitably changes it to suit "American" tastes. It's so rare to have a true adaptation that transports you into another culture in all of the little details. Those types of things are my favorite, when not just the iconography but the CULTURE of that iconography is present. There is no greater immersion imo
American has a problem that we largely lack a deep culture largely due to a young, diverse, and modern nation. An added problem is that what culture we do have is often stained in blood and suffering.
It's disappointing to see that. It's even worse when the creators are trying to make it authentic. Creators should be able to create regardless of how "American" it is.
Now that makes me very curious about your opinion on the magnus chase books by Rick Riordan
So where do the fantasy version of these creatures come from? That's what I'd like to know, i feel that'd be interesting, knowing what something really is and where it came from, vs what is wrong and what they should be
Hi! I discovered you through your yt shorts and think you do great analyses.
I was wondering if you could give your thoughts on something. I was recently thinking about how to demythologize the different realms in Norse mythology. Are they supposed to represent different foreign cultures during those times or something? What is their meaning and significance within context? I tried googling around for this topic and couldn’t really find anything substantial.
I'm very interested in understanding more about your vision here
2:40 what a perfect opportunity to say "Invulnerable to all threats - physical or magical"
Well said.
If you can't find somethings to fight in myth you need to make it fightable thats just how it works. Otherwise it will be a killing same things with no gimmicks over and over again. They want to make a good story but they don't want to lose old "Smash everything I see" play thats probably why they made a lot of mythological creatures not like their original ones.
There could also be a possibility that any 'magical creature' or such like Trolls or such, they might be rough representation of people around them like the Finnish, Baltic or Sami tribes. Since there's been some tales that they were superstitious of some of them, due to them using magic in their society. And being from Finnish tribes, there were still various shamans, 'wisemen'/cunning folk around that sang poetic magic songs. Though some tribesmen acted also as mercenaries for the vikings, raided or got raided by them.
In Norse folklore though, I believe some gods or characters with magic is also attributed to perhaps be of Sami origin, at least in-theory.
You barley fight any trolls in ragnarok
It's videos like this that make me wish I had the opportunity to explore the culture of my ancestors, my parents have chosen to abandon it and it's hard to tell what is true on the internet.
You can still see the connection between trolls and magic in modern Danish. We don't have wizards, we have troldmænd (troll-men). They don't perform magic, they do trolddom (troll-powers).