I thought if fast forwarding & watching this or even watch at 1.25x. You know what! I could not skip even a second. It was so rich & informative. The way you describe things and put it in place is sooo admirable sir.. Thanks a lot for the content that you provide. I'm very much interested now to check out your book and learn stuff in detail. Thanks again sir. Loved it.
i felt the same thought it was going to be the same old explantions ect ect ect BUT this was hour of my time , my life well spent!!! i will be using this as a referece always so clear and understandable.
You're precision in language and definition is really so accurate and most appreciated.! I am a new fan! Almost completed setup of ProTools 7.1.4 / Dolby suite atmos mixing studio and you have confirmed everything I understood Atmos to be. Very clear. This is the future .. the object paradigm is genius and complicated. You have a gift of explanation and I am better for it. Thankyou!
this was the best explanation that i have seen and watched on UA-cam, even being a subscriber to dolby, this was so helpful. I have been aware of dolby because of star wars and ILM.But as a musician (flamenco guitar) having my own homestudio and preparing my own system starting with 5.1 learning the basics then moving to a 7.1.4 with dolby rendering apps the oportunity is limitless to moving my music to a higher level. thanks for the video I will becoming back to watch it over and over again. saludos desde Málaga, Spain
That is best best demonstration of binaural audio that I have seen. The A B switching between binaural and regular stereo really let me hear the difference. I do us Apples services with AirPod Pros very often for both video and music listening. The head tracking is freaky good sometimes. I'll be sitting in my normal listening position, surrounded by the speakers, and forget if they are playing or if it is Airpods. This is the first video I have seen from you, it got me to hit subscribe. Good job.
The binaural version sounded weirdly roomy, in an undesirable way to me. I understand that the "normal" stereo was also strange, but the binaural sounded like it had been recorded in a terrible room
Edgar, I enjoyed this tutoral even more than reading your book. You did a wonderful job on this 'newer frontier' more of us are beginning to traveling upon. It has been painstaking at times, converting our Control Room from 5.1 to Atmos 7.1.4, but so exciting as we can see the golden finish-line ahead. We in this industry must be the gatekeepers to continue to strive/insist for the excellence in audio production. While the music industry has cheapened what is such a low standard of quality from our profession, just for consumers convenience. I continue to hold on to the belief, show the quality of what can be acheived, and maybe make music listening again a singular experience unto itself.
GREAT FREAKING VIDEO!!! Just found your channel. Very well explained, very engaging and entertaining. Thanks! On a different subject, cool glasses, what brand are they?
With this excellent video and your "What's New in 10.7" I finally get the differences between Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos - thank you!! One thing I didn't get, though - the mention of The Who's Quadrophenia album (7:11 in the intro). While it was a great album, I think it was only ever mixed in stereo. Perhaps 'quadrophonic' would be a more fitting graphic, and Dark Side of the Moon a more fitting example?
Just started this and I love the statement of how spatial audio is “the same as Dolby Atmos but not the same.” I’ve been talking to friends at Apple (some of who are devs) that also found it confusing and I eventually got a solid explanation after multiple months of discussion.
@@jewtubetruckers Well Spatial Audio is Apples implementation of Dolby Atmos within their headphones, the newer models of AirPods allow you to position yourself in various angles besides head on for the intended mix that the engineer/artist made the song for. It's like you're in the studio listening to the music but you can turn you head to listen to different parts of the song, like you would be at a concert maybe. So you can listen to Atmos song in Atmos, but not if you're using non-Apple headphones, essentially, all spatial is Atmos, but not all Atmos is spatial, granted the situation changes not on the song you're listening to, but whether its with Apple Music and their AirPods lineup.
As my secondary computer with this be good for the plugin atmos renderer. HP Omen 870-224 Gaming PC. I5 CPU, 16 gigs of RAM, 1 Terabyte hard drive, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 3Gig RAM, DVD Writer/ Player, 1000 LAN, 7-in-1 memory card reader, Internal 500 W (100V-240V), and Windows 10 Home.
Dobly is available on Window directly form the web site System Requirements Dolby Atmos Production Suite: Available for macOS 10.14.6 to 12.5.1 with supported DAWs. Dolby Atmos Mastering Suite: Available for macOS 10.14.6 to 12.5.1 or Windows 10 Pro with supported DAWs.
finally..a super detailed description of how ATMOS works, many thanks. Can you say a few words on file sizes, the 128 channels admbwf file must be huge. the consumers version of the 128 channels must be compressed like mp3? then rendered to the available number of speaker channels - Also , I imagine the BluRay file capacity being large might have a different quality data stream than the equivalent media streamed from TIDAL or anyone else? thanks for the super interesting video
I have 2 of your books on doing Dolby Atmos. My main interest at the moment is setting up Logic Pro X with the external version of the Renderer. But there is something I'm missing about getting audio into the Bed. I.e., a stereo track In Logic routed to Outputs 1&2 doesn't make it. And there is no Surround panner in the Channel Strip. Is it even possible to do a complete Dolby Atmos mix with Logic and the external Renderer software? Can you point me to the parts of either or both your books that describe how Beds are filled from Logic Pro? The Object workflow, aided by the Music Panner and the Bridge seems straightforward. Thanks for all of this; it is very complete and very useful. And, of course, the internal/native workflow is clear.
Great Video. Thank you very much. Are you planning something similar for the DaVinci Fairlight and Atmos mixing? Would love to get one of your GEM books on the Fairlight!!
Forgot to mention, in addition to some of the most amazingly useful books that are actually fun to learn from, those are really cool glasses. If you don’t mind me asking, are brand are those glasses? Thanks again!
They are from a German company in Berlin www.ic-berlin.de but they are available in stores in the US too. It's a cool designer company with an attitude. All frames are handmade.
At 16:45 you speak of integration of Dolby Atmos Rendering and the Daw, would you say that Logic 10.7.4 has realized that and if one has that, then there is no need to buy the $299 Dolby Atmos Renderer? Thank you. BTW, I'm reading your book, it's great.
Yes, Logic Pro has the integrated (build-in) Dolby Atmos Renderer. The only other DAWs at the moment are Nuendo, Cubase, and DaVinci. That means, yes, you don't need to buy the Dolby Atmos Renderer and you can create and export a Dolby Atmos mix, but keep in mind that all those DAWs only have a more or less limited feature set of what the standalone Dolby Atmos Renderer app provides.
Edgar, where is the optimal object or bed position to place bass, and/or sustained bass? It seems like everything is based from the listeners ears and up, but what about below?
I'm two days into the demo of Cubase 12 Pro. I got my ceilings hung this last weekend and wired them up tonight. My room is smaller and I'm running 5.1.4. This is going to be a lot of fun. I just wonder how long it will be before I feel the need to go back to Nuendo.
Apple’s confusion hijacking “immersive audio” with “spatial audio” is well explained in the Distribution section of this video around 35:00-35:35. That is … the consuming public is misinformed because the Renderer is NOT used for spatial audio. Thus, your TRUE Dolby Atmos mix/master file is not properly presented to the consumer because it is REDUCED to ‘spatial audio’. I concur with other comments praising the excellence of this video. Thank you, Edgar.
That was fantastic Edgar, thank you. It gives me a lot to think about before trying out my first Spatial/Atmos mix using Apple's Logic. Haha! I've smashed all the smashers! Salutations from astonishingly grey, wet & still sorta weirdly not back to normal Ireland! ☘☮🤘🏽🤠👍🏽☮☘
Hey, nice channel. I am having trouble including the meta data when I render out my ADM files. The option to "apply program level meta-data" is greyed out and when I load the ADM file into a new session, the audio is fine but the object meta-data is missing. Any idea why that would be?
Thanks from Switzerland ✌️ Really great work. And as you mentioned it’s everything still moving. Logic has now for the moment the deepest Atmos integration with the integrated renderer and the ability to choose Apple headphones as your listening devices.
Hello! In the context of Cubase 12 do I still need to buy the Dolby Atmos Production for 299? Which one of the following two solutions makes more sense for quality results in a Dolby Atmos environment: 1. Hilo lynx to Hedd Quantum to SPL Phonitor XE to Focal Clear Pro MG via Binaural 2. Antelope Galaxy 32 to 11 X Genelec 1030 ( or Ik multimedia mtm) + sub Also is there any info on how mastering Dolby works? Thank you.
35:20 Can you direct me on where you get this information from? Curious to find out more about output differences when using Apple's hardware compared to Dolby Certified ones. 42:32 Are you saying that Atmos binaural signal via Apple Music is not the correct Atmos mix? But correct with Apple's own Airpods?
You would expect that this information would be part of a big announcement from Dolby (of course not from Apple). However, after the rollout, that information slowly trickled through on the Internet on various discussion forums where professionals were scratching their head and wondering what was going on. About the Biaural signal, that is another head scratcher. Apple is using Dolby's old codec "DD+JOC" that was designed for theatrical playback of Atmos content. It doesn't include any of the Render Modes that you set specifically for each of the 128 channels. Only the newer coded AC4-IMS (used by Tidal) uses the actual Render Modes because it is designed for Binaural Headphone Playback. Apple is using the DD+JOC encoded file and applies their own Binaural Renderer to create "Headphone Virtualization", what they call "Spatial Audio". In the Dolby Atmos Renderer your only option is to use the MP4 export feature and playback that file on an iPhone to get an idea how your mix sounds on Apple Music. Pretty messed up, isn't it?
@@MusicTechExplained DD+JOC for binaural? So thats a 5.1 mix with sideband metadata which they've utilized / compromised for Apple Music Binaural playback instead of the suggested standards ADM BWF default 7.1.2 bed with 118 objects as metadata. If I understand this right, this spatial audio will playback true in their own hardware renders..but not if it's sent to other hardware which uses Dolby's master file rendering? That would definitely cause confusion. And if so, why would Dolby allow this?
@@rastAsia Almost. ADM BWF is the Dolby Atmos Master delivered to all streaming services. They just use different encoders to shrink the huge ADM BWF file to a manageable file size. All three codecs are Dolby codecs. Apple choose DD+JOC, Tidal used AC4-IMS (and also DD+JOC), and for Blu-ray, there is TrueHD. You might read that that the Atmos mix is delivered as a 5.1 mix, but that is misleading. That is were the JOC acronym comes in. THe DD+ codec is a 5.1 downmix, but there is some clever encoding going on that additional metadata can retrieve the original object-based Atmos mix from the channel-based 5. downmix. About the politics between Apple and Dolby, my guess is that Apple has more power and is doing things that Dolby might not be so happy about it. They just want to get Dolby Atmos to the mass market and allowing some compromises that are very questionable.
Excellent video. But for us gamers, the biggest question we have is given that the game in question has no direct support for Dolby Atmos, should we choose Stereo or 7.1/5.1 output. There are many threads on the web none are very clear. This is for a consumer using Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I know it won't have the metadata for the consumer renderer but is it better to have more channels feeding it or does that even matter?
Da vinci resolve for me it's really well integrated and work fine on windows, they also have a fairlight hardware accelerated card that use madi input and output, all the rendering tool and panning are well integrated. It's also support vst 3 audio unit plug in.
Thank you for your very detailed explanation of how the consumer the will always get the water down version of the original Dolby Atmos master and the speaker sound bar and television manufacturers will always give you more advertising hype than substance.
I'm confused, you said Apple Music uses their own Spatial Audio which is not originally the Dolby Rendered, but then you recommend it at the end. Is that paid ad? I just started diving into Apple Music, I am amazed, and I am exploring about the Atmos. But learning what you said about Spatial Audio is something to take note, though won't change anything much to the experience. Thanks for the video.
Unfortunately, nobody paid me for this video and it is not a paid aid. About your question, Apple Music is playing back a Dolby Atmos file but runs it trough its own algorithm, Apple Music, when you listen over Apple headphones or supported built-in speakers. Pleas watch my later video about Logic Pro and built-in Atmos support where I explain that aspect even further ua-cam.com/video/PwxXc-J_9R4/v-deo.html
Hi. Thank you, this video is really useful. Can you reprocess the voiceover to reduce that sharp "sss" in the video? It's really detracting from that otherwise great tutorial.
Nice video. With Apple Music playing back songs in Spatial Audio, this results in Dolby Atmos mixes being rendered with Apple's own rendering software to your listening device. Is the processing done with the listening device? i.e. Using my phones processing to render a binaural playback over headphones? What about then switching off Spatial Audio, where does that stereo mix originate from? Is it a Dolby Atmos fold down to 2.0. CD Baby distribute Atmos ADM BWF files only to Apple Music, so Apple Music is not playing back the original stereo mix? How would you have both the original stereo mix nad an Atmos master of your song hosted with Apple Music via CD baby?
OK... waiting on the Atmos workflow in Logic 10.7 video, with, it has to be said, bated breath! Just bought your guide to this. Currently downloading 10.7, so itching to try some of that Atmos magic!
Downloaded and exploring. This is cool! Looks logical and well thought out. Looking for other updates within Logic, too... PS STILL no updated ES2 control window. Still looks like 360p rendering! 😆
Great video! Really interesting. I think I'll buy your book, I'm very interested in upgrading my current 5.1 system. just a brief question: Given that it is possible to create an Atmos mix with a pair of headphones, or with a 5.1.2 system, how important is the height of the ceiling in a 7.1.4 system? I have a room of 23 square meters with a height of 2.3 meters. Is it too low or might I be able to do some decent mixes?
Technically, you could mix with headphones through binaural rendering, but it is not recommended because HRTF technology is not there yet. For pre-mixing maybe, but you should check (master) in a proper 7.1.4 room. Anything less than 7.1.4 is a compromise, especially if you have only two height speakers. The spatial resolution is just not there. The 2.3m height might work but depends on the type of speakers you use because their depth and mounting kit reduce the effective height. However, a lot of small rooms will be equipped with 7.1.4 systems as we speak. You have to work with what you got.
Hi, I’m new to computer music making, was thinking of using Reaper and paying for Atmos. Logic has it built in and the Dolby Atmos site makes it sound like I would loose nothing with Logic. Have any of you looked to see if you get it all for $200 instead of $300. I’ve spent the last month learning Reaper. But if Logic would be better for Atmos I would switch. I only want to use the DAW to make 3D audio. I’m a hardware guy. I got an M1 16Gig Mac to do this. Thanks
The Dolby Atmos integration in Logic gets up and running producing Dolby Atmos content. However, it has some serious limitations regarding the full feature functionality in the standalone Dolby Atmos Renderer app. Reaper is not officially supported with Reaper but I have seen videos where people using it. I would recommend checking out those UA-cam videos. The key aspect is that you need a 7.1.2 Surround Panner for the Beds and that DAW needs to be able to address all 130 audio channels of the Dolby Audio Bridge. Hope that helps.
Hey there! Excellent video, I've just subbed and liked! But I have a little question here : I've just watched your amazing video twice, and it seems that the info about Apple using its own decoder for decoding Atmos still puzzles me... If I remember the graph right, it seems that the only contexts in which the actual Atmos decoder is used on in an "Apple" context is with Apple TV for "real" listening (by "real" I just mean non-binaural... Is there a word for that, by the way?) Is there a good reason to believe that Apple may have better head transfer functions data than Atmos would? If I were to mix an Atmos mix with my headphones, I would probably unknowingly take into account my OWN head transfer function, just beacause I'm me, and there isn't much I can do about that! But I guess that Dolby Atmos could indeed be the stereo of the future under one condition : if indeed people managed to get personalized HRTFs, then the binaural experience could be just about perfect for a specific user listening to music. I personally doubt that people will invest large sums of money into that, but... Apple probably does have a TON of data. So, if Apple has its OWN decoding engine (I'm assuming supposedly better than Atmos, else I just don't see the point), and if they have the TON of data they probably have, is there a way they might estimate the HTRFs of users based on pictures of their faces? Photographs? Listening habits? That kind of thing? I appreciate your time in advance if you do have anything to reply, and will keep pondering if you don't! Thank you very much!
@@leonradschinski-gorman8738 I had no clue. I believe the company "Embody" is working on this kind of thing. Is IOS16 the very last one? I'm not an iPhone user. How well does it work?
Merci pour cette vidéo. 👍J'aurai bien acheté le livre pour le DOLBY ATMOS! Il y a t'il la version en français? Merci pour votre réponse. J'ai la version 10.7 de Logic Pro. 🔥
Great video two problem with this.1)why would I promote and buy a Mac if I cant even hear my mix on apple music? 2)why would you promote apple if it doesn't play Dolby Atmos music that mixing engineers work hard to mix music?.thank you happy holidays.
Great video, thank-you for this. I was intrigued about your comment on another UA-camr's channel regarding a common problem you're seeing with people using the Atmos rendering within Logic 10.7 but with Binaural headphones and the final track you submit to Apple Music not sounding right? I ask because I intend to mix for Atmos in Logic 10.7 but I can't afford a fully Atmos kitted out studio right now so would just be using my Airpods Pro. It would be good - if you get a moment - if you could explain what you meant in a video if possible :) Also - are you going to be updating your Logic book being at all? Many Thanks!
Apple could care less about how the individual Atmos mix sound. However, there are technical specifications that have to be met and if people just clicking around in Logic and think that would fly without learning those Atmos details then they might be up for some surprises/rejections. UA-cam doesn't allow to post links, so google "Apple Immersive Source Profile" and you should find the document.
This is excellent, you've done a better job explaining Spatial audio than anyone else on YT.
I agree
I call bullcrap.
@@GunninRebel55 There's obviously been alot more material put out there, since this came out.
This is probably the most detailed and well explained video on Dolby Atmos available. Anyone interested should just watch this first.
After reading your first book on Dolby Atmos, watch the video again makes more sense to me now. Thanks for your hard work
This is an excellent explanation of just about every aspect of Atmos from Production to Consumer. I highly recommend watching this video three times!
Wow, dass war bis jetzt das Beste Dolby Atmos was ich auf UA-cam finden konnte 🤯 Danke für die Mühe!!
I think this is the best and most important introduction and overview video available on the subject.
Edgar, perfect explanations and experience. Second to none.
this is by far the best explanation of Dolby Atmos production and distribution. thanx so much !!!
Best video that I've seen on this topic. Not even the company could be this truthful
I will now refer people to this video if they are serious about learning digital sound. Thank you for your efforts in making this kind of content.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Thank you Edgar! This is exceptional - calm, clear, erudite and engaging.
Incredibly thorough as always Edgar. Well done!
I thought if fast forwarding & watching this or even watch at 1.25x. You know what! I could not skip even a second. It was so rich & informative. The way you describe things and put it in place is sooo admirable sir.. Thanks a lot for the content that you provide. I'm very much interested now to check out your book and learn stuff in detail. Thanks again sir. Loved it.
i felt the same thought it was going to be the same old explantions ect ect ect BUT this was hour of my time , my life well spent!!! i will be using this as a referece always so clear and understandable.
@@shanegonzalezelindio4835 🙂🙌🏽
This was an amazing explanation of Dolby Atmos, Spatial Audio, and Binaural Audio! Thanks for doing this 👍
by FAR the BEST video ive found on Atmos, thanks so much, subscribed!
Wow - excellent presentation. I was also impressed with the demo of binaural sound, which gave me a far deeper understanding.
Thank you, This is amazingly well explained. I've been searching for awhile for this type of clear content about Atmos.
Excellent video. Especially your chapters on workflow and distribution, and that brilliant binaural demo as well. Thank you!
Danke!
I hope you do more videos on Atmos…and other things.
The way you describe and visualize information works sooo well for me.
Thanks
Already in the pipeline. Just make sur to subscribe and get notified.
You're precision in language and definition is really so accurate and most appreciated.! I am a new fan! Almost completed setup of ProTools 7.1.4 / Dolby suite atmos mixing studio and you have confirmed everything I understood Atmos to be. Very clear. This is the future .. the object paradigm is genius and complicated. You have a gift of explanation and I am better for it. Thankyou!
this was the best explanation that i have seen and watched on UA-cam, even being a subscriber to dolby, this was so helpful. I have been aware of dolby because of star wars and ILM.But as a musician (flamenco guitar) having my own homestudio and preparing my own system starting with 5.1 learning the basics then moving to a 7.1.4 with dolby rendering apps the oportunity is limitless to moving my music to a higher level. thanks for the video I will becoming back to watch it over and over again. saludos desde Málaga, Spain
Hola desde Fuengirola!! 🎶Estoy construyendo un estudio Dolby Atmos aquí también.
@@citizenworld8094 bsds donde? Yo vivo en el centro de malaga. Aver si nos connectamos. Aver como esta montando 🤜🤛
thank you SO MUCH! that cleared up a a lot of questions that I've had. You've earned my subscription!
Absolutely brilliant, such a chance to have access to such a great course, can’t say enough thanks to you 🙌🏻
AWESOME AND INCREDIBLY THOROUGH MR. EDGAR. THANK YOU
Superb, simply superb. This is a first class source for learning! Wish I could press the like button many, many times. Subscribed!!!
Amazing info. Thanks for your efforts and explanation.
That is best best demonstration of binaural audio that I have seen. The A B switching between binaural and regular stereo really let me hear the difference.
I do us Apples services with AirPod Pros very often for both video and music listening. The head tracking is freaky good sometimes. I'll be sitting in my normal listening position, surrounded by the speakers, and forget if they are playing or if it is Airpods.
This is the first video I have seen from you, it got me to hit subscribe. Good job.
The binaural version sounded weirdly roomy, in an undesirable way to me. I understand that the "normal" stereo was also strange, but the binaural sounded like it had been recorded in a terrible room
I love your audio gears layout sets behind you😊
The best overview of immersive audio ive seen to date. Thanks!
Edgar, I enjoyed this tutoral even more than reading your book. You did a wonderful job on this 'newer frontier' more of us are beginning to traveling upon. It has been painstaking at times, converting our Control Room from 5.1 to Atmos 7.1.4, but so exciting as we can see the golden finish-line ahead. We in this industry must be the gatekeepers to continue to strive/insist for the excellence in audio production. While the music industry has cheapened what is such a low standard of quality from our profession, just for consumers convenience. I continue to hold on to the belief, show the quality of what can be acheived, and maybe make music listening again a singular experience unto itself.
I just purchased a physical copy of your book from Amazon. Excited to read it! Thank you.
GREAT FREAKING VIDEO!!!
Just found your channel. Very well explained, very engaging and entertaining. Thanks!
On a different subject, cool glasses, what brand are they?
The frames are a German brand called "ic! berlin" and made out of carbon.
With this excellent video and your "What's New in 10.7" I finally get the differences between Spatial Audio and Dolby Atmos - thank you!!
One thing I didn't get, though - the mention of The Who's Quadrophenia album (7:11 in the intro). While it was a great album, I think it was only ever mixed in stereo. Perhaps 'quadrophonic' would be a more fitting graphic, and Dark Side of the Moon a more fitting example?
Just started this and I love the statement of how spatial audio is “the same as Dolby Atmos but not the same.” I’ve been talking to friends at Apple (some of who are devs) that also found it confusing and I eventually got a solid explanation after multiple months of discussion.
Well what's the explanation??
@@jewtubetruckers Well Spatial Audio is Apples implementation of Dolby Atmos within their headphones, the newer models of AirPods allow you to position yourself in various angles besides head on for the intended mix that the engineer/artist made the song for. It's like you're in the studio listening to the music but you can turn you head to listen to different parts of the song, like you would be at a concert maybe. So you can listen to Atmos song in Atmos, but not if you're using non-Apple headphones, essentially, all spatial is Atmos, but not all Atmos is spatial, granted the situation changes not on the song you're listening to, but whether its with Apple Music and their AirPods lineup.
As my secondary computer with this be good for the plugin atmos renderer.
HP Omen 870-224 Gaming PC. I5 CPU, 16 gigs of RAM, 1 Terabyte hard drive, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 3Gig RAM, DVD Writer/ Player, 1000 LAN, 7-in-1 memory card reader, Internal 500 W (100V-240V), and Windows 10 Home.
That was very clear, despite it being a complex subject. Thank you.
Dobly is available on Window
directly form the web site
System Requirements
Dolby Atmos Production Suite:
Available for macOS 10.14.6 to 12.5.1 with supported DAWs.
Dolby Atmos Mastering Suite:
Available for macOS 10.14.6 to 12.5.1 or Windows 10 Pro with supported DAWs.
great in depth video ✨
finally..a super detailed description of how ATMOS works, many thanks. Can you say a few words on file sizes, the 128 channels admbwf file must be huge. the consumers version of the 128 channels must be compressed like mp3? then rendered to the available number of speaker channels - Also , I imagine the BluRay file capacity being large might have a different quality data stream than the equivalent media streamed from TIDAL or anyone else? thanks for the super interesting video
I have 2 of your books on doing Dolby Atmos. My main interest at the moment is setting up Logic Pro X with the external version of the Renderer. But there is something I'm missing about getting audio into the Bed. I.e., a stereo track In Logic routed to Outputs 1&2 doesn't make it. And there is no Surround panner in the Channel Strip. Is it even possible to do a complete Dolby Atmos mix with Logic and the external Renderer software? Can you point me to the parts of either or both your books that describe how Beds are filled from Logic Pro? The Object workflow, aided by the Music Panner and the Bridge seems straightforward. Thanks for all of this; it is very complete and very useful. And, of course, the internal/native workflow is clear.
This is one of the most informative videos I’ve laid eyes upon. Great work sir!
Very informative, many thanks! Just subscribed!
Great Video. Thank you very much. Are you planning something similar for the DaVinci Fairlight and Atmos mixing? Would love to get one of your GEM books on the Fairlight!!
Forgot to mention, in addition to some of the most amazingly useful books that are actually fun to learn from, those are really cool glasses. If you don’t mind me asking, are brand are those glasses? Thanks again!
They are from a German company in Berlin www.ic-berlin.de but they are available in stores in the US too. It's a cool designer company with an attitude. All frames are handmade.
At 16:45 you speak of integration of Dolby Atmos Rendering and the Daw, would you say that Logic 10.7.4 has realized that and if one has that, then there is no need to buy the $299 Dolby Atmos Renderer? Thank you. BTW, I'm reading your book, it's great.
Yes, Logic Pro has the integrated (build-in) Dolby Atmos Renderer. The only other DAWs at the moment are Nuendo, Cubase, and DaVinci. That means, yes, you don't need to buy the Dolby Atmos Renderer and you can create and export a Dolby Atmos mix, but keep in mind that all those DAWs only have a more or less limited feature set of what the standalone Dolby Atmos Renderer app provides.
Edgar, where is the optimal object or bed position to place bass, and/or sustained bass? It seems like everything is based from the listeners ears and up, but what about below?
The bottom position in Dolby Atmos is ear level, not the floor.
I'm two days into the demo of Cubase 12 Pro. I got my ceilings hung this last weekend and wired them up tonight. My room is smaller and I'm running 5.1.4. This is going to be a lot of fun. I just wonder how long it will be before I feel the need to go back to Nuendo.
thank you very much. this is a perfect tutorial for switching from 5.1 to atmos mixing. thanx really very much. :)
This was an amazing explanation
Love the detailed explanation, love it
perfect explanation! thank you!
Apple’s confusion hijacking “immersive audio” with “spatial audio” is well explained in the Distribution section of this video around 35:00-35:35. That is … the consuming public is misinformed because the Renderer is NOT used for spatial audio. Thus, your TRUE Dolby Atmos mix/master file is not properly presented to the consumer because it is REDUCED to ‘spatial audio’. I concur with other comments praising the excellence of this video. Thank you, Edgar.
That was fantastic Edgar, thank you. It gives me a lot to think about before trying out my first Spatial/Atmos mix using Apple's Logic. Haha!
I've smashed all the smashers! Salutations from astonishingly grey, wet & still sorta weirdly not back to normal Ireland! ☘☮🤘🏽🤠👍🏽☮☘
Hey, nice channel.
I am having trouble including the meta data when I render out my ADM files. The option to "apply program level meta-data" is greyed out and when I load the ADM file into a new session, the audio is fine but the object meta-data is missing. Any idea why that would be?
Great video!
Thanks from Switzerland ✌️ Really great work. And as you mentioned it’s everything still moving. Logic has now for the moment the deepest Atmos integration with the integrated renderer and the ability to choose Apple headphones as your listening devices.
Thank you so much for what you do!!!!
Amazing explaination
I have learnt soo much😄😄 . do you have a master class ? it would be nice to get deep insight about the audio world .
👌awesome overview with cool visualizations - appreciate your hard work man
great video and made things clear for me, will you make a video on 360 reality audio by Sony ?
Hello! In the context of Cubase 12 do I still need to buy the Dolby Atmos Production for 299?
Which one of the following two solutions makes more sense for quality results in a Dolby Atmos environment:
1. Hilo lynx to Hedd Quantum to SPL Phonitor XE to Focal Clear Pro MG via Binaural
2. Antelope Galaxy 32 to 11 X Genelec 1030 ( or Ik multimedia mtm) + sub
Also is there any info on how mastering Dolby works?
Thank you.
amazing video thank you very much for organizing and delivering this knowledge!
Thank you I have now basic knowledge about Dolby Atmos
35:20 Can you direct me on where you get this information from? Curious to find out more about output differences when using Apple's hardware compared to Dolby Certified ones.
42:32 Are you saying that Atmos binaural signal via Apple Music is not the correct Atmos mix? But correct with Apple's own Airpods?
You would expect that this information would be part of a big announcement from Dolby (of course not from Apple). However, after the rollout, that information slowly trickled through on the Internet on various discussion forums where professionals were scratching their head and wondering what was going on.
About the Biaural signal, that is another head scratcher. Apple is using Dolby's old codec "DD+JOC" that was designed for theatrical playback of Atmos content. It doesn't include any of the Render Modes that you set specifically for each of the 128 channels. Only the newer coded AC4-IMS (used by Tidal) uses the actual Render Modes because it is designed for Binaural Headphone Playback.
Apple is using the DD+JOC encoded file and applies their own Binaural Renderer to create "Headphone Virtualization", what they call "Spatial Audio". In the Dolby Atmos Renderer your only option is to use the MP4 export feature and playback that file on an iPhone to get an idea how your mix sounds on Apple Music. Pretty messed up, isn't it?
@@MusicTechExplained DD+JOC for binaural? So thats a 5.1 mix with sideband metadata which they've utilized / compromised for Apple Music Binaural playback instead of the suggested standards ADM BWF default 7.1.2 bed with 118 objects as metadata.
If I understand this right, this spatial audio will playback true in their own hardware renders..but not if it's sent to other hardware which uses Dolby's master file rendering?
That would definitely cause confusion. And if so, why would Dolby allow this?
@@rastAsia Almost. ADM BWF is the Dolby Atmos Master delivered to all streaming services. They just use different encoders to shrink the huge ADM BWF file to a manageable file size. All three codecs are Dolby codecs. Apple choose DD+JOC, Tidal used AC4-IMS (and also DD+JOC), and for Blu-ray, there is TrueHD.
You might read that that the Atmos mix is delivered as a 5.1 mix, but that is misleading. That is were the JOC acronym comes in. THe DD+ codec is a 5.1 downmix, but there is some clever encoding going on that additional metadata can retrieve the original object-based Atmos mix from the channel-based 5. downmix.
About the politics between Apple and Dolby, my guess is that Apple has more power and is doing things that Dolby might not be so happy about it. They just want to get Dolby Atmos to the mass market and allowing some compromises that are very questionable.
Excellent video. But for us gamers, the biggest question we have is given that the game in question has no direct support for Dolby Atmos, should we choose Stereo or 7.1/5.1 output. There are many threads on the web none are very clear. This is for a consumer using Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I know it won't have the metadata for the consumer renderer but is it better to have more channels feeding it or does that even matter?
thank you
Interesting information - thanks. Curious to see what the next version of Logic Pro includes to process Spacial Audio.
Damn that was a great video. I have a much better understanding. Well done
Da vinci resolve for me it's really well integrated and work fine on windows, they also have a fairlight hardware accelerated card that use madi input and output, all the rendering tool and panning are well integrated. It's also support vst 3 audio unit plug in.
Thank you for your very detailed explanation of how the consumer the will always get the water down version of the original Dolby Atmos master and the speaker sound bar and television manufacturers will always give you more advertising hype than substance.
Thank You !
🙂🙏
I'm confused, you said Apple Music uses their own Spatial Audio which is not originally the Dolby Rendered, but then you recommend it at the end. Is that paid ad?
I just started diving into Apple Music, I am amazed, and I am exploring about the Atmos. But learning what you said about Spatial Audio is something to take note, though won't change anything much to the experience.
Thanks for the video.
Unfortunately, nobody paid me for this video and it is not a paid aid. About your question, Apple Music is playing back a Dolby Atmos file but runs it trough its own algorithm, Apple Music, when you listen over Apple headphones or supported built-in speakers. Pleas watch my later video about Logic Pro and built-in Atmos support where I explain that aspect even further ua-cam.com/video/PwxXc-J_9R4/v-deo.html
My left ear learned about Atmos where the center channel panned to center is for voices hehe 😊
Hi. Thank you, this video is really useful. Can you reprocess the voiceover to reduce that sharp "sss" in the video? It's really detracting from that otherwise great tutorial.
Nice video. With Apple Music playing back songs in Spatial Audio, this results in Dolby Atmos mixes being rendered with Apple's own rendering software to your listening device. Is the processing done with the listening device? i.e. Using my phones processing to render a binaural playback over headphones?
What about then switching off Spatial Audio, where does that stereo mix originate from? Is it a Dolby Atmos fold down to 2.0. CD Baby distribute Atmos ADM BWF files only to Apple Music, so Apple Music is not playing back the original stereo mix? How would you have both the original stereo mix nad an Atmos master of your song hosted with Apple Music via CD baby?
OK... waiting on the Atmos workflow in Logic 10.7 video, with, it has to be said, bated breath! Just bought your guide to this.
Currently downloading 10.7, so itching to try some of that Atmos magic!
Downloaded and exploring. This is cool! Looks logical and well thought out. Looking for other updates within Logic, too...
PS STILL no updated ES2 control window. Still looks like 360p rendering! 😆
wow, how much work you put in this great video! Thanx! :-)
Great video! Really interesting. I think I'll buy your book, I'm very interested in upgrading my current 5.1 system. just a brief question: Given that it is possible to create an Atmos mix with a pair of headphones, or with a 5.1.2 system, how important is the height of the ceiling in a 7.1.4 system? I have a room of 23 square meters with a height of 2.3 meters. Is it too low or might I be able to do some decent mixes?
Technically, you could mix with headphones through binaural rendering, but it is not recommended because HRTF technology is not there yet. For pre-mixing maybe, but you should check (master) in a proper 7.1.4 room.
Anything less than 7.1.4 is a compromise, especially if you have only two height speakers. The spatial resolution is just not there.
The 2.3m height might work but depends on the type of speakers you use because their depth and mounting kit reduce the effective height. However, a lot of small rooms will be equipped with 7.1.4 systems as we speak. You have to work with what you got.
Hi,
I’m new to computer music making, was thinking of using Reaper and paying for Atmos. Logic has it built in and the Dolby Atmos site makes it sound like I would loose nothing with Logic. Have any of you looked to see if you get it all for $200 instead of $300. I’ve spent the last month learning Reaper. But if Logic would be better for Atmos I would switch.
I only want to use the DAW to make 3D audio. I’m a hardware guy.
I got an M1 16Gig Mac to do this.
Thanks
The Dolby Atmos integration in Logic gets up and running producing Dolby Atmos content. However, it has some serious limitations regarding the full feature functionality in the standalone Dolby Atmos Renderer app.
Reaper is not officially supported with Reaper but I have seen videos where people using it. I would recommend checking out those UA-cam videos. The key aspect is that you need a 7.1.2 Surround Panner for the Beds and that DAW needs to be able to address all 130 audio channels of the Dolby Audio Bridge.
Hope that helps.
this is the best now i understand
Excellent!!!
Hey there! Excellent video, I've just subbed and liked! But I have a little question here : I've just watched your amazing video twice, and it seems that the info about Apple using its own decoder for decoding Atmos still puzzles me... If I remember the graph right, it seems that the only contexts in which the actual Atmos decoder is used on in an "Apple" context is with Apple TV for "real" listening (by "real" I just mean non-binaural... Is there a word for that, by the way?) Is there a good reason to believe that Apple may have better head transfer functions data than Atmos would? If I were to mix an Atmos mix with my headphones, I would probably unknowingly take into account my OWN head transfer function, just beacause I'm me, and there isn't much I can do about that! But I guess that Dolby Atmos could indeed be the stereo of the future under one condition : if indeed people managed to get personalized HRTFs, then the binaural experience could be just about perfect for a specific user listening to music. I personally doubt that people will invest large sums of money into that, but... Apple probably does have a TON of data. So, if Apple has its OWN decoding engine (I'm assuming supposedly better than Atmos, else I just don't see the point), and if they have the TON of data they probably have, is there a way they might estimate the HTRFs of users based on pictures of their faces? Photographs? Listening habits? That kind of thing? I appreciate your time in advance if you do have anything to reply, and will keep pondering if you don't! Thank you very much!
I don't know if you saw but Apple did exactly this by using the camera in an iPhone in the 'personalised spatial audio' feature in IOS16
@@leonradschinski-gorman8738 I had no clue. I believe the company "Embody" is working on this kind of thing. Is IOS16 the very last one? I'm not an iPhone user. How well does it work?
This is awesome. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Edgar.
Edgar, can we *please* have a Blade Runner remix in Atmos? That would be awesome!
Very well explained, thank you.
Super helpful. Thanks so much!
Merci pour cette vidéo. 👍J'aurai bien acheté le livre pour le DOLBY ATMOS! Il y a t'il la version en français? Merci pour votre réponse. J'ai la version 10.7 de Logic Pro. 🔥
The book is only available in English
Great video !!!!❤
An update for Cubase users. As of 13.04.2022 Cubase 12 Pro supports Dolby Atmos as well and is available on Windows machines.
This is excellent thanks u very much dude ❤😊
37:31...knife in the heart moment.
Well done
where could buy your books ?
Links are on my website dingdingmusic.com
Great video two problem with this.1)why would I promote and buy a Mac if I cant even hear my mix on apple music? 2)why would you promote apple if it doesn't play Dolby Atmos music that mixing engineers work hard to mix music?.thank you happy holidays.
Thank you, Sir
Great video, thank-you for this. I was intrigued about your comment on another UA-camr's channel regarding a common problem you're seeing with people using the Atmos rendering within Logic 10.7 but with Binaural headphones and the final track you submit to Apple Music not sounding right? I ask because I intend to mix for Atmos in Logic 10.7 but I can't afford a fully Atmos kitted out studio right now so would just be using my Airpods Pro. It would be good - if you get a moment - if you could explain what you meant in a video if possible :) Also - are you going to be updating your Logic book being at all? Many Thanks!
Apple could care less about how the individual Atmos mix sound. However, there are technical specifications that have to be met and if people just clicking around in Logic and think that would fly without learning those Atmos details then they might be up for some surprises/rejections.
UA-cam doesn't allow to post links, so google "Apple Immersive Source Profile" and you should find the document.
@@MusicTechExplained Thank-you!
how about cubase 12 pro ?