RTX 4070 Ti Fake MSRP - How Much Should it Cost?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 січ 2023
- The RTX 4070 Ti has been given a fake MSRP that is beyond reasonable and many are avoiding this GPU. For what this GPU is, how much should it cost? In this video I breakdown the components to come up with a Cost Walk to what would be a reasonable cost for this GPU.
Links to fantastic teardown images at TechPowerUp:
RTX 4070 Ti: www.techpowerup.com/review/as...
RTX 3070 Ti: www.techpowerup.com/review/nv...
RTX 3070: www.techpowerup.com/review/nv...
RTX 3060 Ti: www.techpowerup.com/review/nv...
RTX 3060: www.techpowerup.com/review/ev...
#RTX4070Ti, #RTX4070TiReview, #RTX4070tiCost - Наука та технологія
guys dont buys any 40 series the price is insane for you imaging how much they cost in third world countries (in my country 4090 cost 3 time the original price) i will stick to my 1060 6 gb for 1080p
I still have my EVGA 2070 from 2018, it's holding on strong. I'm skipping the 40 series until these cards drop to reasonable prices
Here where I live a 4090 comes pre-scalped at 2000$+ so I'm looking for a used card either from nvidia or amd. Like hell I will pay for one of those overpiced cards.
The other scenario is to wait for amd to crack and reduce their prices like they always do with their products lol. I would gladly pay 700$ or less for a 7900xt.
My own 1060 6gb is also going strong. The last great Nvidia mid-range GPU.
I find 4090s for minimum 3k so yeah no way will I ever get a 40 series
4070 ti is 1000usd for me.
I did a survey of 4070 Ti at my local microcenter. They had 12 different cards, lowest was $799.99 and most was 1049.99. The 12 card cost average was $890.
What can you get a 3060TI or 3070TI for?
@@OilmanMJ1984 3 camels, probably
@@OilmanMJ1984 3060ti $419.99 and none in stock for 3070ti
My local Best Buys still have them in stock today 1/6/22. So they're just sitting! =)
for a 70 tier card it should not be over $599
$599 is a fair price for that RTX 4070ti and the name should have been changed to RTX 4070 at least.
I always say its a 4060 at max. The same goes for the 4080 which is a 4070. Those are the Products we got. Instead they sell us higher Numbered GPUs for even worse Prices. Insane isnt even the correct wording anymore.
@@flimermithrandir The cunsomers, at least most of them are the ones to blame, they are welling to through their cash on what ever nVidia shits in their plates. If people would stop wasting their money and deprive nVidia from that cash then maybe just maybe nVidia won't go this far!!!! Also AMD is at fault for falling into nVidia's practices with their RDNA 3 cards so far !!!!!
@@flimermithrandir Exactly!! In my opinion it should be compared to the 3060 ti which makes the 799$ a sh!t price.
499€
@@husseinjuma5997 Agreed. But i dont think its normal ppl out there buying those 4090 at all. Its big Companys and or big(ger) YT/Twitcher/Content Creators out there or ppl who do other Stuff where you need the best GPU there is... Well...need is relativ but you get my Point.
I think there are like 10-20% of ppl out there who really would buy those 4090. Everyone else... is ppl who do make Money with it anyways. Kinda like that.
Thats why it wont be that Way for that long anymore. After Coorps and big Streamers got their Share it wont sell anymore. I cant see it otherwise.
I think your analysis is spot on and very fair. We have to hold out on buying these GPUs at these prices.
Vote with your wallet!
Oops, I already bought a 4090 FE off eBay a few weeks ago. I’d love to help you out. But that’s overpowered by my desire to play Guardians of the Galaxy at 2160p with RT at 120fps. It’s sick, have you tried it! 😀
@-- do you bro👍🏾
@@93836 Imagine,just to play those hours in 2k with rt so worth it
@@93836 but the 4090 is okay price cuz it such good card. there was always a card worth that price
A reasonable set of prices I reckon for the RTX 40 series would be something like :
4090 - US$1299
4080 - $799
4070 ti - $649
They would not sit on shelves at those prices 🙂
Too low
@@ImaMac-PC That's the idea!
no.
The top end skew should be $1k for the 4090 Ti(tan). And then you scale down from there. 4070 ti should be $500
As much as I love those low prices I think the best case would be
4090- $1600
( hypothetical ) 4080 ti - $1200
4080 - $900
4070 ti - $700
4070 - $600
Graphics cards are never going to go down again, the issue is the price is jumping way to fast. Should be about $100 jump per class every 2 generations to not price lock consumers out.
I would say a reasonable estimate is closer to $500~$600. Given that in mass manufacturing situations, the parts used in the BOM are purchased years ahead of time at very good volume related prices. This means that the actual cost of the parts was priced and paid for years ago before the high inflation scene which we see today.
Not to mention that a lot of material costs are really dishonest from the get go. If the index says the plywood is $2 per board, guarantee that it is being purchased for $0.65 per board instead. And that's not just from bulk/volume purchasing.
Tbh, even $700 isn't insane if you could actually get it at that price, and they at least held that price point next generation as well.
@@XtremeConditions it's $799 not $700
Couldn't agree more!
@@KingSteven77 Didn't say it wasnt..wasn't... Although I did word it weird. I mean, if it were $700 and you could get it at that price.
Excellent analysis as usual. I would however caution against using CPI based inflation numbers for GPU/tech in general. Technology doesn't work the same as bread and butter type consumer goods. I can buy two 65 inch OLEDs for the price I paid for one 65 inch OLED 5 years ago (real numbers), with money left over, and the C2 OLEDs being more advanced than my 5 year old C7 OLED. Similarly, technology advancements are meant to give us more performance over time in CPU/GPUs while also reducing costs. Within the same semi-conductor industry, you see this being true for CPUs, RAM, etc., but somehow when it comes to GPUs people start excusing the price hikes due to inflation and shortages (which is another BS excuse, because these same companies have been deferring their orders from TSMC as much as possible - simply cutting production).
True. Shipping has increased a lot though. Only to the degree that a card that would normally be $600 is now $625-650, not $800+, but still.
And their stock share earnings just keep goin up.
Thank you. It does seem when it comes to GPUs, inflation is the goto excuse for higher prices even though we don't see the impact on CPUs or other semiconductors. You have a great point. I agree CPI based numbers are not the same for Tech, but it does get argued more than it should. However, even if you throw it in, it still does not justify the high price.
EXACTLY this. The point of technology advancement is exactly to offer more for the same price. If you just offer more for higher cost, then that is by literal definition, a stagnation in your product.
The one thing that normally would go against this saying, is when old hardware gets discounted at their end-of-life sales cycle when new gen products take over and old ones have to be cleared off the shelves and thus sold at a discount relative to their original msrp, but that's the opposite of what we're seeing.
This whole ordeal is artificially manufactured hyperinflation by Nvidia and AMD themselves to take advantage of their duopoly in the market, in an effort to recoup losses from overselling after the crypto crash manifested irrevocably.
Excellent point. Just look at current CPU pricing and how competitive that is... That is offering good value right now and they're dealing with inflation too.
People don't want to admit price collusion in the GPU market.. but it's probably what it is.
Both AMD and Nvidia have re-labelled what would be their lower class GPUs a tier higher while simultaneously increasing prices too - did they really expect people to not notice? Lol
The "7900XT" shoulda been the 7800 or 7800XT etc.
They're both pulling the same crap in hopes of confusing the consumer lol
just took a look on Newegg. $850 is a typical price for a 4070Ti shipped by Newegg (3rd party sellers are ridiculous! Almost twice the price.). Plus tax. You need to take out a mortgage for a 4080. WTF?!
$600 - $650 would be a reasonable price for the 4070 ti given inflation and the increases in manufacturing cost. The current pricing is just NVIDIA chasing the scalping prices that were happening during the crypto GPU shortage.
Personally, I strongly believe that the 4070 ti should be 350 USD :D
Seriously though, I think 650 would have made a lot of sense, and 550 would have been a good deal. As it is, I recently paid 580 USD (including shipping) for a used EVGA RTX 3080 FTW Ultra, and that only seemed like a good deal because I had seen the 900 dollar MSRP for the 4070 ti (formerly known as "4080 12GB"), and it seemed clear that they weren't likely to drop that price by more than 100 USD. As it is, the supposed 800 USD MSRP seems a bit dubious. Unlike the 4070 ti, the 7900 XT is actually not that hard to find for its MSRP, and the 7900 XT is definitely a better card (at least for most people's needs). That being said, both cards honestly provide an awful value for the price, and represent virtually no improvement in performance per dollar (if any) over cards like the 6800 XT and RTX 3080, which were themselves pretty expensive cards.
Real price is closer to 35$
That 3080 FTW is a good car. It's hard to believe that the 4070 ti is so bad that it makes the 7900 XT look compelling...but I've already let my thoughts on that GPU before it launched. Remember @11:28
You say that in jest, but adjusted for inflation, when you compare the gtx 970, then the rtx 4070 (the real 70 class card, not whatever the hell this is), should cost $397 USD. So round it to an even $400. The Ti (which should be released afterwards and not the first thing, btw), should probably be $50-$70 more, depending on the performance uplift.
Instead many who think they are savy, claim $700 USD would be a reasonable price, not realizing that you're STILL being price gouged because you're comparing it to previously price gouged cards.
Anything over 400$ for this is too much, honestly. It's the third fastest card in the series, but priced like it's the holy grail of graphics cards. It isn't.
Keep in mind how ridiculously expensive the US$ has become too, making 400$ actually feel like 700+ in many countries.
Oh i just found your channel and its GOLD. i wish there were more like you. thanks . subbed
Thank you!
You got my sub and like, keep up the content brother this was perfect. I hope this video gets more traction
Thanks!
great analysis. I would argue tho that the price of NVIDIA cards has been too high since the 1000-series or right after that with 2000-series. Would be cool to see a analysis based on the prices of 1000 series or 900-series.
Thanks. The results of the analysis you suggest would be too depressing ☹
GTX 1000-series was a little pricier than the historical trend ($600 for a 1080 instead of the usual $500 for the mainstream flagship), but it was only another hundred bucks and it justified the price increase by bringing more of every relevant metric to the table simultaneously (better performance, better performance-per-watt, better thermals). The 4080 is a real shame because it achieves the gains we want to see, but the price has increased exponentially to the point where it's not worth it. If the 4080 had done what it's done, but been offered at a $100 price premium over its predecessor ($800) it would be flying off shelves and AMD would have to price their cards super aggressively to move a single unit. Instead we get this price collusion debacle where everyone gets to keep moving last-gen inventory for launch-day prices because there's literally zero competition in the market.
Just built a new pc with a 3070 and it’s doing fine for 1440p. I was thinking that I would regret on not waiting for the 40 series but I can’t justify spending four figures on a gpu
With a 3070, you can skip this gen.
probably the most well articulated video on a topic like this i've ever seen 👍
Thank you.
Good work, thank you!
Would be nice to see such explanations from the manufacturer itself, especially in such extreme price raise cases.
Thanks. The manufacturers could do that but they would come to the same conclusion that it doesn't add up 😆
Another great video! This analysis are the best!
Much appreciated! Thank you!
with the 192bit bus, it's a sub 400 card. if it was 256bit bus, it could be a 600-700 card. That 192bit bus is going to be really restrictive for performance as the card ages.
Very informativ.
Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, subbed
Awesome, thank you!
Excellent analysis.
I would, however, add to the following,
"Small-die GPU, 12Gb VRAM, Sub 300w power rating."
I would add, 192-bit Memory Bus. Because, this bus is limiting overclocking, and running the card at 4k with decent frame rates. Every single review I have seen has shown that at 4k, the 4070Ti struggles against the 3090/Ti version, and it's well below it in all the 4k charts. It's a fast, decent card for 1440p, and beats all the older gen cards, but not at $800-$1000+ prices that we are currently seeing. Heck, here in the UK I am seeing some AIB models selling close to 4080 money, and that is just nuts.
Yes, that's a good point. With the smaller bus, it is not a 4k gaming GPU. It's 1440p.
I love your videos! Thanks. Question though. Why are you not factoring in all those other overhead costs like labour, shipping, airfreight, environment taxes etc etc. All gone up. Seems like you made a great comparison but left out some big chunks. What's the thinking behind this?
Thanks. In my video last Sept, I showed how the shipping cost through 2022 fell dramatically. And you can see the costs for materials are also falling due to the recession. Every media outlet likes to publish when things go up, but no one tells you when the prices fall back down. Specific costs like labour, environment and taxes is complex and region specific. I wanted to keep this video as simple and digestible as possible.
600 is already more than enough in my Opinion. Agreed with the Analysis otherwise.
The last minute of this vid is the most important part.
It should cost max 600$ all over the world and not 900$ in US + add extra 350$ so 1250$ for Europe, lmfao these greedy bastards, Europe always the most screwed at prices it's insane.
Unbelievable. This is disgusting. They tried to sell a x60 tier card as a x80 one..
I don't understand why Nvidia has to make the whole 40series on 4nm.
How about if it is indeed so expensive just release the fastestest and most expensive GPU on 4nm. RTX 4090 is selling very well or at least looks like it is selling well so there is a market for ultra premium expensive GPU.
Then release every other GPU on 6nm or heck even 7nm.
Much cheaper node that can deliver great ghz boost.
Just recently checked the RX 6700 and it had boost of ~2400mhz.
And that is the older 7nm node, 6nm could probably do even better.
If RTX 50 series aka Blackwell will be once again released as a whole series on same uber expensive node Nvidia is going to keep the same RTX 40 prices or even increase them once again.
Next, nVidia will launch the RTX 4060 with a 128-bit memory bus. They've already paved the way with the 8GB RTX 3060. I can't wait to hear how much their memory compression has improved, negating the need for a wider bus. My GTX 960 4GB card has a 128-bit bus and never seemed memory starved. It also has but 1024 Cuda Cores and runs about as fast as a butter churn.
@@cypher5910 980GTX user here. Same boat. This year the old-man seems out of fuel.
Would love if you did this with the 4080 as well. Thanks for all your work!
Thanks. I did give my thoughts on the 4080 in a previous video (ua-cam.com/video/gAq-1Wt3dqs/v-deo.html).
Very good analysis. Yeah, this card should cost about $650-$750 today, instead of $800-$950.
I came to this conclusion after watching some reviewes and it is based on 4070ti's performance. And your analysis only convinced me of this, thank you!
Thank you.
I've seen your channel for the first time, and I think its great how you compare the prices. I definitely agree with you around £600 mark or below. They are being super greedy and blaming inflation when we can see with evidence its not.
Thanks. I find it impossible to justify the high prices today.
It should be $599 max, so that proper progress has been made in performance/dollar from the RTX 3080
Excellent analysis.
Btw MLID got few leaks that 4070ti gonna mostly start at 830USD.
Pretty nice markup to what is highest here calculated reasonable price.
I have noticed that 3060 die size, bus and mem capacity similarity already
, but it's really worthy to mention for potential customers to know what they are served by Nvidia.
Thanks!
Very indepth video and it deserves to be seen by many people.
Thanks!
Another great video
4070 Ti would be compelling to me at $400. It's barely better than the 3080, which was $700 two years ago.
Can't wait to see you do one on the laptop GPU's. 107 die for a 60 class? 106 die for a 70!?!? According to cinnebench the 4070 falls short of the 3070ti. Yay gen over gen stagnation.
As informative as ever 👍Many thanks.
For years tech reviewers have used the bang for buck / perf per dollar etc, as an indicator of value.
So it is no real surprise that the manufacturers have decided to include the metric in their pricing algorithm.
Not the reviewers fault, just greed in overdrive from corporations.
Thank you.
Great video, this.
वैसे गहन शोध , स्पष्ट अवलोकन , प्रज्ञावान तुलना , सुन्दर चित्रण और बहुत सुन्दर प्रस्तुति।
I would of expected it to land at around $649 to $699 as the increased cost TSMC hit Nvidia with was going to be an unavoidable price increase no matter what. So it being priced anywhere under $649 was going to be a pipe dream. As NV is not going to sell their product at a loss no matter how bad consumers would want them to.
Regarding inflation - it's not just in your overestimated base cost, but also additionally in the TSMC die cost. Plus, manufacturing costs tend to decrease not increase as time goes on. The die cost will decrease as yield improves.
Me watching how 330 usd product becomes 900usd in 2 years.
200 dollar product 8 years ago
@@SherrifOfNottingham that's very true
I think we also need to consider deflation, most tech components have traditionally become cheaper as they matured. The die may not have, but other components will have. Additionally, if as Jensen claimed Moore's law is dead, then it's no longer reasonable to expect incredible future growth, and that means margins need to come down, not rise as they have the past few decades.
Thanks for doing these analyses! Though one issue in this analysis is that the +$94 for the 40-series chip doesn't include a profit margin for nvidia -- whereas other parts of your analysis do. The +$94 could fairly correspond to +$200 on the product.
The analysis assumed the previous level of profit margin. However, it seems that has gone up considerably!
Amazing video , keep up the good work ❤ but i think Small die GPU with 12gb vram cost must be less then that because RTX 3060 12gb msrp cost 330$ and with all component and you calculated the inflation at the end so for me i think RTX 4070 Ti must cost 600$
All the cost of a vrm and so on is basically because they wanted to clock the die as much as possible instead of going with a slightly bigger die and less cost of the board overall.
08:00 G6x does not always faster than G6. New G6 are faster than old G6x. AMD did not move to G6x when they can. My guess is that some G6x is not fast enough to used and replaced at that point.
I think you are just about spot on...$600 to $650 would be about right and that is also taking into account that it is getting RTX 3090 to 3090TI performance. Still what I cannot understand is why Nvidia is willing to lose hard won mindshare by trying to get even more profit when in the long run if they dropped the price they would sell so many more and win even more customers..
It's all about shifting the ASP or Average Sale Price to double what it was before the pandemic. At these prices, it will work.
You are giving nVidia way more benefit of the doubt than you should, the MSRP already counts that nVidia will be earning a profit margin so using the base price 25-33% above MSRP is tantamount to saying "nVidia, please take all of my money". In my opinion the 4070ti should be a $500-550 card, because AIB cards will already retail for $100-200 higher than that, so your actual cost to acquire one will likely be bare minimum $600 already. Setting a price expectation at $600-700 means that you aren't getting a 70-class card (which should really be a 60 class card) for $700-800, which is just mind boggling.
Anyone know any brand new gpu recommendations that have the same performance/ close performance to the 4070 ti but a bit more fairly priced? Looking for options :)) (atm I’m only looking for NVidia cuz I got bad amd customer service before so I choose not to buy from the company)
For that level of performance in that price range, the 4070 Ti is your only choice at the moment. Used deals today are not what they were during Q4-2022. And last gen NEW high end GPU supply has dried up and the deals are gone as well.
if they wanted to promote good faith they would release a 4070 at $550 with almost identical specs as this , but they wont m thats going to be the 4060 and is goig to be cut down even more but go for an 600ask price.
Couldn’t using a smaller die meaning a more efficient way to produce them? Those smaller die still have move transistor than previous one
i did not do price analysis like you, but i estimated MSRP for 4070 ti should have been 650$. Otherwise release of 40 series just makes 30 series look better. Also i noticed that Mid range GPUs basically do not get any improvement in price/performance
The fact that the duopoly in desktop CPUs doesn't have this issue. New CPUs are released, previous-gen prices drop and the new ones are priced the same as the last-gen. But then Nvidia and AMD saw what people were willing to pay from scalpers and decided to get in on it too. The prices are absolutely artificially inflated. Plus Taiwan isn't seeing inflation like in the west, so they absolutely can't use that excuse.
The EU needs to do something about this. The exact same thing when DDR4 was released, a bunch of manufacturers were fined, then boom prices dropped everywhere and we didn't see the same scalping when DDR5 came out even though there actually was a silicon shortage in 2020 when they were released.
Your calculations are solid work. $600-700 is a good value point for this card given inflation, even though it does not affect gpu manufacturing by much.
Thanks!
I would rather sit here losing hundreds of dollars by holding on to my 3060 Ti than lose even more buying any 40-series GPU.
Seems like AIB partners cared more about being able to use the same cooler mounts than they cared about saving space. 1 size for all the fans regardless of the GPU means lower manufacturing costs. Would be nice if the customers got some of that savings as well though.
It's funny, just from my rough sense of things I was saying in other comment sections this card would have been fine at 650 to 700. I appreciate seeing some analysis that lines up with my gut instinct.
For me, all the 4070 ti does is emphasize just how obscenely overpriced the 4080 is.
I think a lot of enthusiasts have a gut instinct of what this GPU should cost and this pricing is just way over the line.
@@ImaMac-PC it's pretty bad, frankly it makes consoles and th steam deck look that much more appealing.
I got ripped off buying a 3070 during the chip shortage for building my work PC. It felt terrible but I needed the horsepower for a demanding blender project. It honestly wasn't quite powerful enough but the 3080 was just waaaaay too much at the time. I could justify the purchase in that moment only because I had a deadline to meet and what I was getting paid funded my build. But now? Hell no, I'm never paying that kind of money again, and I'll be holding onto that 3070 as long as possible, certainly until the 50 series and hopefully things will bounce back a bit.
@@Orain88 The GPU market is going to "shit "as well as PC gaming, as a whole. Nvidia is a money hog, and can only try to justify its insane prices by layering it on top of the RTX 3000 series. I can only imagine what the RTX 5000 series is going to cost . ?? A RTX 5070 at $899 ,and a RTX 5080 for $1399 sounds about right in what they'll charge on their next gen cards.
Great to see vids like this to give some facts to the delusions of people thinking Nvidia and AMD cards are reasonable when it comes to 7900xt and 4070ti and 4080!
My gracious self places a 70/700 Class GPU at 449€-499€ and the Ti 529€-579€.
10 years ago I bought the gtx680 for 499€ on Shelve/Retail, and I am sick of seeing prices inflate to the Moon by AIB/Retail.
NVidia/AMD/Intel have to say a Price that will be called when I go and purchase a Product.
For the longest time, we had Prices be as they were announced and just beefy Coolers would add Cost for the Consumer.
Now it is "Add Tax - Shipping not included - AIB wants higher Margin - Retail wants higher Margin - Product is sparse so Scalpers buy with Bots - Cards got directly sold to Miners"
Well, Scalpers and Miners may be gone but someone in the Middle still tries to inflate as much as possible... makes me sick.
I guess that they want to segment the Stack hard. 300€ for the 50 Class and 1999 for the 90. And as it looks the Performance will be Miles apart.
Where did you find the images for the torn down graphics cards?
I said it in the video, they are from TechPowerUp. I'll put links in the description.
@@ImaMac-PC Okay thank you I must have missed it
In my opinion, the 4070Ti should be $450. The GTX 1070 had a larger die size and 256 bit memory bus and was launched at an MSRP of $380 in 2016. The 4070Ti with a smaller die and a 192 bit memory bus is in reality a tier below the GTX 1070, but with inflation I can still accept $450 as a fair price.
If your going to compare 70 class GPU to previous top dog card, then the RTX3070 should have been a crazy price as is roughly had the same performance as the RTX2080 TI, which cost $1200 at launch.
The RTX4070 TI is on average 5% faster than the RTX3080 which cost $100 less than the 4070, your paying more for little improvement in performance, in other words price to performance stagnation.
I've done that comparison and I've also showed how much money it will cost the enthusiast with the new higher pricing in my last video. Also, in a video prior to that showed the performance stagnation as Performance / Dollar with the new generation is not any better than last gen. When you run the numbers it's not stagnation, it's actually a slight regression.
I firmly believe the "4080 12gb" was launched with the real 4080 msrp of $899 - and this is the real msrp of the 4080 16gb if Nvidia and AMD weren't trying to fight their last-gen sales issues.
The 4070Ti msrp should be $649-699
The 4080 msrp should be $899
The 4090 msrp should be $1299
In reality, the 4070Ti should have been the 4060Ti, the 4080 should have been the 4070, and the 4090 should have been the 4080.... but thats an entirely different can of worms that perhaps is better suited for another discussion
I wouldn't count the DDR6X towards higher price at all. It's 1 year old technology. Even though it's still the best being used currently it's price should go down, and for sure not up.
The simplest answer is most often the right one. So we all know without doing the math that Nvidia is just greedy. There's no other answer. It's greed, and Nvidia thought that it could charge us what the scalpers charged us last year.
You haven't taken into account Jensen's new leather jacket tho.. Who's going to cover those costs.. 🤔?
Also not to forget that only US will actually see the GPUs in stores at MSRP. Anywhere else the price is always higher. And people mostly not wealthier.
Well said! The skewed comparisons that Nvidia itself is encouraging are warping the review process. It's not ok to say "it performs better so it should cost more money" ....if we applied that logic to current CPUs, comparing them to 486s in the 90s they should cost several thousands of dollars based on the improvement scaling. That argument doesn't work, because that pricing model is totally unsustainable.
Thanks. And yes, it is unsustainable long term. It just ushers in the decline that much faster.
The first thought when they launched this card with the new name and new msrp was that this card should be a 599$ msrp card not less not more..I was saying the same thing in a tech forum that i am a member.
My take on this is that we should also look at the 4080 and 4090, and a hypothetical 4060/50 to see where they sit on the product ladder for die sizes but also just output. I really don't care if the die is any given size I care about how powerful that die is relative to other products. But if across the board if in going from 30xx to 40xx the die sizes universally shift, then any comparison to previous generations has to have a similar shift for product tier.
Also I am willing to basically give in to the idea of a fundamental "market correction" as result of the mining era adding $100+ to all cards going forward. I don't really care anymore if they all go up 1-200 across the board, opportunity costs and market demand and so on being what they are, it is what it is.
People will complain and moan but enough will still inevitably throw in the extra dosh when it's ultimately time for a new machine and they aren't willing to step down to the 50 or 60 tier. Eventually customers won't hold out for "cheaper" forever and the corrected price will stick.
I mean I'm all for just buying 30 series now that prices are supposed to come down but only for non raytrace MP and at that point I'd just go AMD.
Already had a look at RTX 40 series in other videos. What I hear you saying is that amount of price increase does not matter to you so you've accepted it and will pay. NVIDIA understands the typical buyer well and if nVIDIA holds out long enough, nVIDIA wins.
But ask yourself, why does that same strategy not work with consoles?
@@ImaMac-PC TBH things have been pretty reasonable priced for consoles I guess but I also haven't bought one since the 360. I'm gonna guess the PS6 will be around 600-650 and adding an SSD will be another $150+ to that. But they know the price range the broad casual gaming market will bear, and can benefit from tailored performance at high consistent volumes for a known life cycle means they can focus on hitting that exact price target and have really good performance for the release that will amortize well for 6+ years.
Enthusiast gaming GPU market is just a different ballgame with different marketing and volumes and mfg/sales channels, for a different mindset altogether IMO.
Seems once you're above $550 for a GPU you're square into enthusiast territory and enthusiasts will typically spend great sums to build a gaming rig. They probably aren't overly interested in top of the line mid-range gear? Otherwise we'd see more priority on a 4050. I'm sure Nvidia and the rest are looking at total system build costs and trying to stay within a certain ratio for typical builds. Now that every kid and their sister wants full RGB suite, a 360 AIO all in a $200 case and a $200 NVME and so on, why not make your enthusiast GPU $700+? What's the point to sell the lower end performance graphics card at only double the price of a cool CPU cooler? Let's not even get into the peripherals. I remember thinking $200 for a keyboard or a gaming headset was madness and now it's not uncommon at all. Still madness, but more normalized.
There's other marketing mind games that go into the pricing, and that isn't even factoring in the whole thing of GPU scalping prices which, obviously is a factor. Also this may be a reach but I think more and more the higher end GeForce series are being used in prosumer and 'creator' environments, so they're probably seeing that they can charge a bit more if customers are seeing the cards as investments for productivity use vs pure recreational luxury items. That certainly factors into my purchase equations and helps ease the pain. "Babe, It's not just so I can hit 80fps in cyberpunk at 4k, it'll also help render my UA-cam videos a few minutes faster! That's saving me an hour a week! Over 4 years it pays for itself!"
I mean I'm willing to be wrong here if there's other trends showing this is just Nvidia absolutely taking the piss, but it seems more that the market is giving them no reason not to charge what they are.
It should cost no more than $500. The 1070Ti launch price was $450.
I would like to know what is currently the best FRAME PER DOLLAR videocard on the market, last generation or latest generation included...
What resolution? What fps target? New or used?
@@ImaMac-PC I guess 1080p resolution makes it so the CPU isn't the bottleneck. No fps target, just the maximum fps devided by the cost of the card. New of course.
@@dIggl3r I would say the 6600/6600xt
You don't take into account nvidia margin, higher number card means higher margin on card... but yes this cards could be cheaper!
Samsung 8nm yields were so bad that TSMC 5nm effectively barely costs more. The difference is largest for small dies where the yield is good for both processes. But still.
Should be $50 extra for die, $80 extra for PCB/cooler and $40 for inflation. So, about $500 even including comfortable margin for error.
Never think I would tell gamers to get a console vs upgrading or building a PC, these prices are crazy, and me being in Jamaica is even worse, 1usd =over 150jmd, plus 35% of the cost at customs
Whats bonkers is how much Nvidia continues to charge for 30 series. They are paying next to nothing for Samsungs old tech. And yeah inflation is a thing but advances in manufacturing technology products usually cancels it out. Phones, cpus, tvs, storage, etc are all better and cheaper than they were two years ago. Gpus are the only tech product going against this trend because of the complete lack of competition
Yes!
This channel deserves 7 million subs not 7k subs
Thanks!
600-700$ is how I see it based on the pricing history. Another problem is additional retailer/tax price which inflates the price 20-30% more. In the Philippines, retailers sells 4090 for more than $2000. What a bunch of a holes
I’m not buying the 40 series. Just got myself a 3070ti last month ago which I’m happy with
Very good analysis. To me, it's a non-Ti at best. $599-$649oc max. Nvidia trying to trick us into believing it's a good deal comparing it with the 4080 current price. And I think the 4080 should be at $799FE-$899oc max. It is not mining era anymore where you can recover a little $ to pay for the premium. I wouldn't buy any 40xx series at current price.
Oh, AMD is no angel either.
Thank you. This does appear to be the "skip-it" generation.
The gtx 980 was for $330 USD in 2014. That was a good card so that is what I'm using as my baseline, not the overpriced cards that followed it. So, what's the equivalent of 2014's $330 in 2022?
That's roughly $400 USD. So that's the price that ACTUAL 70 class cards should be sold for.
Now if their business plan/engineering is such that they cannot produce a card at that price and be profitable, then they need to rethink their engineering and business strategy - it's not my job to pay for their shortcomings.
Making sense again! Well done! 👌🏼
I'd say a $600 USD MSRP would be the best point for this, all things considered. Anything over that and people won't be buying them. So even if the price was leveled to a more "reasonable" $700, it would be too expensive for almost everyone, and people would simply buy older gen GPUs from the second-hand market, like a used 3080 with $500-600.
That said, even if there is inflation and higher prices in manufacturing and all that, the purchasing power index has gone down during the past 2 years. People don't have more money to spend. They have less money, on average. This means the market will be forced to straighten itself by these companies getting less profits (they need to realize this and lower the prices, even it means less profits), or we have a massive economic depression coming this year.
Take a wild guess which one will be more likely to happen 🤦🏻♂ save your peanuts people, there won't much left come autumn.
They're already sold out. Value doesnt matter. "People wouldnt buy them" isnt a thing. People are still buying the 4080 at $1500.
@@117johnpar yes, some people, but for example here in Finland all the retailers are struggling to sell any 4080s with 1550-1700€. Stocks are full of the cards, with hundreds of 4080s sitting on storages. You see, there is a world outside USA. It's a much larger market here in Europe.
@@OrcCorp Local and physical yes. That seems to be the case everywhere. Online, they're not available. Not anywhere near MSRP. Wonder if its artificially that way.
I don't have anywhere within 100 miles that sells GPUs locally, At least nothing new or hot. Bestbuy has the occasional 6mo old model stock. But for whatever reason, Not a single computer parts supply chain has opened near my somewhat densely populated area.
Thanks. That is a great point about the purchasing power index.
I just picked up an ROG STRIX 3080 Ti with 2 years warranty remaining for $630!
Honestly, it feels like they over volt and jack the Power rating so they can justify larger cooling and power delivery to increase cost. A 4080 is incredibly efficient, hell even 4090 is fantastic at 80% power limit.
So if the gpu itself cost 124$. Means that other components pcb and vrm 650$? I remember I bought 960 for 190$ 😢
the 3080 remained at above MSRP for most of its shelf life. something like 820 eur in europe. The 3080ti remained at an even more ridiculous markup of over 1200 eur. In light of this, the 4070ti looks like a good deal.
It really does depend on the region. The 3080 10 & 12GB versions were near 750USD retail at the lowest near the end, while the 3080ti could be had near $850. Used market saw the 3080 sell for in the 500-600USD while the 3080ti was 600-700USD.
The 3060 prices are STILL based on scalper and miner demand prices.
30 series cards which are now TWO years old, are STILL at higher than MRSP prices!
So your estimates here are also based on these higher scalper prices.
So as you said $600-699 is the MAX based on these prices.
But taking account that scalpers and miners are gone, these prices should be lower by a minimum of $100 if not even $200
So a real reasonable price for the 4070Ti should be $450 to $550
BUT
As you mention at the beginning this is a small die size.
Such a size should be more for a 4060 card, or a low spec 4070 at most
So again one would expect a lower price for such card.
So that's another upto $100 off the price.
That would bring it back down to $350 to $450 for this card.
Fine the production of the new wafers is 4 times the cost.
But give it a year and they'll become cheaper to make, again bringing down the cost.
So maybe this year the prices should be upto $550, but next year it should be $450 as production costs should fall for these wafers.
What is the best used gpu to get
The absolute best used GPU to get would be a used 4090. It is the best.
The analysis of what these cards should cost is not based on the right thing. Going by your analysis you are correct. However, I do not believe Nvidia, or AMD are using that logic to justify their prices.
Instead, I think what is happening is there has been a shift to an Apple model. Meaning the prices are representative of "current gen" and if you don't like them, you buy last gen, and if that's too steep you buy the gen previous to that. They establish support across 3 generations and just use a step system to regulate pricing for the foreseeable future.
So, what could happen is the 50 series will take place of the 40 series pricing and the 40 series will bump down to 30 series pricing and the 30 series.... So on and so forth.
corporate cancer.
Re-branding older products in a newer generation could come back again (remember, GTX 660 to GTX 770 or HD 7970 to R9 280X).
@@ImaMac-PC Yes, I believe this is a good assumption to make. I do not believe they have any intention of doing right by the consumer because that would mean massive price drops for the 30 series. Here in Canada even the 20 series is at insane prices due to reselling on any major website. The only space for an affordable graphics card is between the 3050 and the 6750 xt. Everything else seems to be ruined by the market shenanigans of the last 2-ish years.
Some of the 4070 ti here in the UK are around £829 to £1049,
I guess my country has very different pricing .. also, we include taxes, because MSRP without taxes is just idiotic .. and i have no idea why anyone would even mention that. (unless a majority of people tend to get their GPUs on the black market)
Nvidia Titan or 90 series has always been around 2000$ here - top of the line, show-off card for either professionals (that is enterprises buy it, and do not care if it is a few hundred more or less) or influencer show-offs.
the 80s series has always been around 1000-1300$ - THE enthusiast card for gamers that want about the best settings and do not mind if their investment depreciates quickly over the next GPU generation
the 70 series has always been 700-900$ - the upper class gaming card. It will run everything - maybe not at the utmost maximum detail or the highest FPS, but enough to be fine for at least 2 GPU generations of software / games to come.
the 60 series has always been around 500 and the 50 series around 250$ - mainstream GPUs .. you wont need to sell a kidney and you will be able to run pretty much any modern game with very little compromise ... but you will always be jealous at "those youtube influencers that show off their 80 or 90 series cards"
Also, this pricing model has been like that since the 1000 series here .. so the 40 series has not exactly increased the GPU prices.
edit: you came to the conclusion that the 4070 should have a MRSP of 700$ - i assume you are American .. so you probably do not include taxes. Here 700$ + import & consumer taxes would get you to around 850$ ... add in the profit margin for the retailer (including the risk of purchase, storage and service) ... lets say 100$ ..and you get to the aforementioned 900-950$
The 70 series cards have not always been $700-900. 🤨
GTX 970 MSPR was $329.
GTX 1070 MSRP was $379.
They've more than doubled it in 3 generations. "$800" is a lie, more like $900-1100. That's more than triple! Nvidia can suck it.
it's already listed above 1000€ in Europe. Crazy
thats what i called an review .. thx ... i would say 599-699 depends on the Brand and on the Layout
Thank you!
So in 3 generations, the "70-class" went from $400 to $800. No, thanks! The GTX 1080 used to cost that!
You're now paying 80-class money for what is essentially a 60-class GPU.
I guarantee you the 3070 Ti didn't actually cost $100 more to make than the 3070. Nvidia put the 3070 Ti out so it could sell the GA103 dye at a higher margin. There is no way the 4070 Ti should cost a dollar more than $600.
The price of anything after taking out manufacturing costs really is based on what ppl will pay for it. This goes for all things. Why do ppl think companies are going to give components away? A company exists for one reason... Profit. This is why marketing is so important, perceived value is the most important thing to a company and customer. Ppl want the feeling of exclusivity and companies provide.
I must have missed the marketing. Does the 4070 Ti provide a feeling of exclusivity? I know the 4090 does. But a 4070 Ti?
@@ImaMac-PC the industry is always in general moving towards bigger faster better and we as consumers are along for the ride. There is absolutely no need to upgrade from the 30 series, but we are in general convinced that we need to. Plus nividia has had its pubes pulled over it's claims of superior performance.
there is a conspiracy from retailers when the price is 800$ they put the price 1000+$ it's not great. And the price is too high, I would give a price of 4090 - $1400, 4080 - $700, 4070ti (4060ti +) - $550
It's $200 more while only being 40% faster than the previous 3070ti.
You pay more for not even 50% more. If Jensen wants $200 more then we need double or lower the price to $499.
At this price range of $799, you are getting +/-5% of the 3090. Again, not good enough. Jensen is just selling you old performance, wrapped in a new package for more than half price. This is the realm of the 80 class which should be 70% (more than last flagship; 3090) but people seem to be fine with 30% however, it's $100 more at $799 too so you get even less than before.
Past generations, you got atleast 70% but because people keep buying even at ~40%, Jensen will keep giving us the bare minimum we will eat while cranking up the prices.
Hopefully, he is humbled somewhat with this 4000 Generation like he did with the 2000 Generations so he does another 3000 Generation with the 5000 Generation i.e 5070 (he already has this BTW), a cut-down 4090ti that will be 5-10% and hopefully around $499-599 (better if lower) so we forget his greed and forgive him. Again, a old performance wrapped in new packaging for lower price.
$499? You gotta be dreaming! The reason is AMD has come within range of what ever Jensen has put out, they even have yet to reveal their 4090 competitor. Jensen does not like that, he does not like AMD being close enough he can smell them, he wants to be way ahead he can't see Lisa. Fortunately AMD is relevant in raster (fps) and who cares about ray tracing really (DLSS is cool though).
Not a fanboy of any company, just like the data but do prefer Nvidia at the moment just cause their drivers work immediately compared to AMD and also DLSS is nice.
It's been more interesting learning about how low our % gains have been and how much increase in $$$ and TDP each generation than the launch of 4000 Generation 😆
$699, not a penny more. If they were still on Samsung Node I'd say $599 with inflation and whatnot, everything is more expensive now. Going to TSMC definitely increased cost and by more than most realize. At the end of the day though, I feel that the 4070ti should actually be the 4070 and $599, then a real 4070ti could be $699. $100 more than last gen would have been acceptable IMO but not $200...