Ranting About Comic Book Advertising, WHERE IS IT! | Absolute Comics
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2022
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The fact that you guys aren't consistently negative makes these videos far more impactful. Nothing wrong with displaying accurate and constructive criticism
Sal, episodes like this are never a waste of time. Tis what we are here for. Unfiltered thoughts on the industry from someone that cares about it
I love the overarching comic industry discussion. Anytime this channel or ComicPop do it, it’s always a great watch.
I know the guys will always say “oh we just complained for X minutes, but they’re informed consumers in a market that should be SO much bigger. I think these discussions are always a blast to tune into and are very necessary.
Moon Knight by Jed Mackay is one of my favorite marvel comic runs so far. I fell in love in Moon Knight this year. But there is still a problem that is so weird... Marvel DOES NOT advertise where to buy comics in their mainstream social media. Not even saying Buy from Digital. People who want to get a comic are implied to already know where to get comics. There's no social backing in comics to support a good run by buying it digitally. I don't feel my digital sales are supporting anything?
For me there is nowhere i can buy physical comics
That was my first book I bought lol. And it took crazy research to figure out how to get it since I have no local shop.
Continuity/history is the bigger obstacle in getting into comics as compared to manga than interconnectivity.
MANGA N COMICS COULD REALLY LEARN ALOT FROM EACH OTHER
They really could, on both accounts
What could manga learn from comics?
@@ItsMichaelReid not have your overworked underpaid writers die from exhaustion
@@ItsMichaelReid not to work their writers/artist to the point of death.
@@ItsMichaelReid connected universes. U can’t tell me one piece wouldn’t be way more badass if we had like one or two more titles for side characters. Kidd prequel series or Ace prequel manga (I know there was a novel)
These conversations are always your best shows.
the interconnected universe used to be a really great advantage but I feel like it's become a really big detractor because nothing really means anything when there are status quo resetting events every few years. I feel like this is why people gravitate towards manga and indie comics because there you get a complete story where things can actually happen lol
This was NOT a waste of time. I could listen to Sal and Benny rant for hours
These past year I've been reading Image,Dark horse, and BOOM. I've taken a temporary break from the big 2 because there prices went up ( Batman is now $4.99).
Is Batman DC's best selling the most books because it has a lot of fans or is it because he has multiple books selling around five dollars
@@TupocalypseShakur In the case of Batman, it’s both. It’s Batman. He has a lot of fans willing to spend $5 bucks on an issue.
Wow. Comic book commentators who aren't bigots. This is something new for the 2020s.
Jesus Christ guys u keep missing the big seller for manga. ITS ANIME. If the big two reshuffled their universes to fit into a neatly connected animated universe they would sell insane numbers of comics and merch. People would go insane for a high budget animated fight between Superman and some other version. One of the problems is that western animation kinda lacks if they don’t have a movie budget tho. I mean compare CSM, DS, OPM, HxH, Vinland Saga, or AOT to any of the dc animated movies. They get blown out of the water. I mean Cowboy bebop an almost 20 yr old anime has fights scenes that trounce almost all animated Batman fights scenes. For younger generations anime and manga is the wave because of animation quality, story telling, and the fact that u can just read if u can’t wait. I mean go to any mall there’s anime merch in like 6 stores.
I think they talked about this in another video. But one of the reasons why they don't make that much animated projects or give them a budget is because like with comics, these companies (Marvel, DC, Disney, WB, etc.) are stuck in the past with the "it's for kids argument". They think adults don't/won't watch if it's animated despite this not being the case. This also plays into their mindset that it's too risky. They would just rather put money into the cheapest and dumbest shows to pander to little kids. This is probably why we got "teen titans go to the movies" and "DC League of Super-Pets". Honestly, it's amazing how we got into the Spider-verse and Invincible with this mindset still going strong.
@@latrellboddie8906 I believe Amazon and invincible will bust open the door believe it or not I think indies will carry the torch for animated adaptations. If invincible gets more traction they’ll move on do more with indies for sure.
As a newbie to comics I've no idea of what comes out when,I've a pull list and pop in once a month to collect what evers there.A poster the shops could put up would be useful a list of dates and titles.
Something that might help comics is to stop calling every story beat "stupid" something that has not helped comics is people who talk about comics seemingly hating comics.
I have recently searched UA-cam channels that talk about comics because I have missed a lot of comics. I have found two types of channels: 1. Right-wing nuts who think everything is "woke" and make up conspiracies and say things like "marvel hates us". Or 2. Channels that talk about comics and constantly refer to them as stupid or point out that the stories are outlandish in a demeaning way. There is more "this sucks" than "I liked it I recommend it". Analysts can make points about craft without saying "Spiderman has a villain that was Injected with a goblin virus and it's stupid."
Why would someone want to buy something that is stupid.
Omg this is so true!!
This has definitely been one of the major factors pushing me and others away from even caring at this point anymore...
It’s so weird to see DC lose that interconnectivity since DC is arguably the one of the Big Two who’s been overly concerned about keeping continuity clean for decades. All these decades of caring way too much about canon and having entire events to clean up the continuity, and NOW they’re suddenly like “continuity is stupid”?
I'm the opposite of most fans. I know everything that comes out, I look at it 3 months out and update myself weekly for books I want and what's coming out. I do it for all companies too.
That said, companies do need to do more to advertise. Making a page ad in your own books isn't enough.
Personally, I don't see the interconnectedness of series as a universal positive. In some cases, like punisher and daredevil, it does make sense. But when you say it's a strength that comics have over manga, I don't really agree. Manga is better because they don't do crossovers and let each series speak for itself. The reason I like chainsaw man and jujutsu kaisen is that they have a particular tone and style to them that is individual. Crossovers for advertisements happen and the authors do talk to each other but crossing over would ruin what makes those series cool.
Honestly I’m digging the lack of interconnectivity and out of continuity stories. We’ve gotten some great stories like Batman the Imposter, Three Jokers, Rorschach, WW Dead Earth, and Catwoman Lonely City all from the tell solo stories mindset. These type of books are exciting me more than the main continuity
Manga = less barriers for entry: it's one book, you read that one book in one numerical and you know whole story.
Manga = more consistency: one writer generally for one story.
Manga = better access: they're quick to release it in volumed format and keep better stock of their trades.
Those factors massively contribute to it's success.
When Shonen Jump was still doing physical releases in the US, you could find that month's issue pretty much anywhere and everywhere that sold magazines
Good point
I started reading comics after the death of Superman. The firdt book I bought outside of Superman and Spiderman was Justice Society of America (the book with the character Outburst). Benny made a great point, there are many characters in comics. Some have singular roles, but they are often overlooked because people with a viewpoint of a group can't see the forest past the trees.
I wonder if the issue might be that an individual comic costs around $3-4...and you are not guaranteed a full story. Its too much of a financial investment.
Thr main reason manga works is cuz they put it as an anime
What I don't get and will never understand is why are comic publishers leaving money on the table when it comes to retail stores. Walmart and Target sell manga; they also sell dc/marvel products but not comic books in trades or single issues. I know at one time Walmart sold comic packs but I haven't seem them lately or at all now. Hell, grocery stores sell kids books and cheap chapter books which sometimes feature comic book characters. Marvel/DC could easily release trades and single issues based around both the theatrical and home release of their films that relate to said movie/character and make easy money. For example, Wakanda Forever just recently came out so why not stock magazine racks and shelves with Black Panther trades or stand alone issues. Like I said easy money. But for some stupid reason they don't and I just don't get it.
Target has some trades but they are pretty limited. They def need to scale up
@@bretts7072 it's Target though.
I've wondered that for so long and its actually ridiculous. Its crazy how so many of us have the advice that will help them but they have whole teams that can't figure it out.
Once again I enjoyed watching you guys rant as someone that keeps up more with UA-cam than comics(I just pick up the trade paperbacks every couple of months) I really enjoy what you guys do!
I think the easiest way to solve the advertising comics is animated movies about the stories that tell the story to the T, after all the live action and animated movies or before there should be a thing that says “Read the books that inspired the movie.”, every single time that should happen. Now to compete with manga there needs to be a unified effort to be in the same universe and not wanting to tell your own individual story that make continuity confusing to follow.
I remember reading an old sliver age book by DC called the Brave and the Bold that did precisely what you guys are talking about teamed up two heroes and told you what they were doing in their respective books. Now marketing eventually got a hold of the book and it became A Superman and Batman book then it just became a Batman Book where he teamed up with other heroes. Marvel Had one too called Marvel Team Up it even had a short-lived Ultimate version
I think you conflated Brave and the Bold with World's Finest, but that doesn't alter the overall point.
I mean a little bit but world's finest was always a Superman Batman book whereas brave and the Bold was at 1st about different parings then became mostly a batman book
I love these types of videos pls keep it up. I love hearing your rants about comics
I think part of the problem with interconnecting stories in comics is that there’s just too much, it’s easier to keep up with 4 movies a year then 20 monthly comic books you see now people are getting frustrated with how many mcu projects are coming out
Someone on League of Comic Geeks predicted that WB would then sell their properties if Dawn of the DCU fails which that sounds pointless as just one failed event
Feels like Marvel and DC need to decide on a consistent size format. I’ve bought a series and had different size books throughout. Vol. 1 paperback, Vol. 2 hardcover, vol. 3 deluxe hardcover vol. 4 paperback again. I can see the appeal of one series in the same format sitting on my shelf. I know this is OCD
LOL same, gotta make sure they all line up, im not ocd tho it just looks nice
Why is manga doing better? As a comic and manga reader from Asia, here's my opinion about it.
1. It's not woke?
This is a lie. Manga has a very strong and lucrative(moneywise) Yaoi(gay) and Yuri(lesbian) fanbase. Trans characters with trap characters and futanari characters having a strong niche within the Asian comic book industry. The difference is that they're all organized in certain magazines or publications that caters to the audiences who want to read stories with these kinds of characters.
You won't see it in shonen jump magazines, but look at any jousei or shoujo publications you are bound to find them.
2. Clearly defined genre, traits, and magazine publications. Related to my explanation above, if you want to read LGBTQ+ stories, it is available to you and is easily found based on the magazine and genre. If you want sexually suggestive stories or full blown erotica, you have megazines/publications (eg. Seinen and jousei ones) for that. If you just want slice of life OR non-stop fighting action then you have your designated publication and genre for that. This way, every reader gets what they want. Occasionally, these genre and characters align in a single story, One Piece with occasionally Okama(trans) characters, sexually suggestive characters, non stop action and fighting, so on and so forth.
3. Easier point of entry. As mentioned before. Chapter 1 volume 1. If, on the very very rare occasion you have a remake, it would still be chapter 1 volume 1, no strings attached to the original work. If it is a sequel, say it with me, "chapter 1 volume 1".
4. Single author, single main story line, consistency characterizations. While strong multiverse DC or Marvel fans like to argue about the wonderful world of multiverse, the numbers don't lie, people ALSO like a single story line. This doesn't mean that the writers/mangaka don't deal with flashbacks or time slips or alternate characters, no. Yet, greater emphasis is placed on having one cohesive story line following a character or a group of characters. Furthermore, you don't have sudden character shifts from straight to gay or vice versa. If a character is going to be gay, they either are gay day 1, or you would have them fleshed out for a volume or so, that way the reader can fully empathize with the characters struggle if there is any.
5. Controlled amount of characters. While it is beautiful that DC and marvel have such a huge cast of characters and side characters that certainly earns the right to individual story publications, it is still very intimidating to the average reader to initiate engagement with the DC or Marvel comic book franchise as there's just so many to choose from. Not to mention, so many stories that may or may not be interconnected to the main story eventS. The culture for manga is , if you like the front cover, you like the genre, you pick it up, you read it.
6. A promise of an ending. Whatever comic book you read following a character in a universe, there most likely will be an ending to that storyline. Long as One Piece may be, it does have an ending as the author already have a draft for it. Yes, sometimes popular series have sequels. But in most cases it is run by the same mangaka and have no other interconnected stories to catch up with outside of the prequel. I often feel cheated when superheroes in DC and Marvel do a big sacrifice only to come back within a year so with completely different characterizations.
7. Boredom or fatigue. Readers want new ways of story telling, with new characters, new worlds, new power systems, etc. I believe manga offers this to them.
That's all I can say. I am commenting from a smartphone during a coffee break BTW so I do apologize for any misspells.
being gay or trans or les doesn't make you woke bigot.
@@GODCONVOYPRIME Usually when the comment if "this [media] is woke" it's often in reference to diverse casting, extreme feminism, and inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters. It's a twitch response that people have towards a show with that includes at least one of this elements. Is it a misnomer, maybe?
But either way when Benny says woke, it's related to Tim Drake being gay for example.
After dark knight medal you guys were the only thing that kept me seat of dc changes. Had no clue of dark crisis. In fact today was the first time I’ve seen a Dawn of dc ad. And it didn’t even say much. Just literally Witness the dawn of dc
Sal you’re preaching to the choir, man! TESTIFY!!! I’ve been saying for literally DECADES that comic publishers, especially Marvel and DC, need to make a concerted ongoing effort to advertise comics to the masses. DC did it awhile ago with Sandman Universe, Before Watchmen, and New 52, but really slacked off on it and when they did so, you’d seldom see the tv spots. Oftentimes they’d only play those during programs that already established readers were already likely watching like the CW’s various Arrowverse series. I’m talking advertising across the board with tv spots during all kinds of series. Also advertising on the big screen. How often do we sit in movie theaters before a film, bombarded with ads before the trailers kick in as the lights go down? A LOT. They have a captive audience where they can advertise the latest Superman or Captain America before Everything Everywhere All At Once or any other film.
Advertising 101: if you want people at large to buy your wares, you must make it’s existence known to them. Marvel did it when I was a kid and succeeded-Before or after school when I’d watched my Thundercats or He-Man, I’d see ads for Marvel’s GI Joe. Guess what happened. I and MANY other kids became aware of that comic and we went out to grab them up! They did several of those as well as their old Transformers title. It resulted in GI Joe #1 being the highest selling Marvel comic ever until it was eventually dethroned by Todd McFarlane’s Spider-Man #1.
Look. All I’m saying is, if you can sell pizza, cookies, soap, shampoo, or disposable douche on a tv screen, you can sell a damned comic book. 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️👍🏼😎✌🏼
At this point, I think Marvel and DC don’t care about advertising their books. A big reason manga is selling so well in the US in recent years is because you can buy it almost anywhere. I can buy manga at my local Walgreens, at Wal-Mart, even in some random pharmacy or convenience store. Like, Marvel can’t do that with Spider-Man issues or trades? DC can’t do that with Wonder Woman? They still publish a ton of good comics. They just seemingly don’t wanna bother with advertising and distribution, probably to save cost.
If the company that makes the product doesn't care about or support the product, how can we expect the customer to care or support?
The irony of it all
Great conversation as always! 👍🏾
Benny has been complaining about this for years, I'm surprised it took this long to actually get a specific vid about it!
#AlgorithmEngagementSquad
Maybe they are building a different model, maybe the model that worked before isn't anymore, the people making these choices probably have more information than you. It could be that connecting everything doesn't sell as well as just having a catalog of IPs with various stories unburdened by continuity and interconnectivity. Comic readers are a small market and in order to grow that market they might want to get rid of the barrier to entry that is the mess of continuity. What worked then might not work now.
What made me lose interest in comic books themselves that status quos, character, everything feels like it’s constantly changing. Why should I invest and care now if it’s going to change in five minutes? Why should I care in five minutes if that’s going to change too?
I thought the Harley Uncovered was the same idea as the Lee Bermejo book that used his covers to attempt to tell a story (it's really just an art book, I honestly don't need them to try to tie a narrative together for me to appreciate Bermejo lol).
We love the rant ❤️
I think this channel is a testament to the strenght of crossover LOL
I love comic discussions like this
A big part of the reason y Manga is winning is because Manga is SO much easier to get into. For example, if you want to read Death Note, all you gotta do is find vol 1 and go from there until the end of the story whereas for example Marvel/DC, if you wanna read Batman, without doing research or asking people, you don't know where to start.
I can't wait for more manga discussion content.
I haven’t really been on board with a lot of current DC properties since the end of the New 52, say what you want about it but at least that did feel like a solid connected universe.
Honestly I just wait until you guys tell me what's coming out and anything worth reading tbh.
I also feel like if DC is doing a movie market the comics that inspired the movie.
Real talk I low key love it when you folks rant passionately. It’s constructive criticism as far as I’m concerned!
I ok we love when you rant and go on tangents
I thought Wild Cats is a mini. Poison ivy was supposed to be a mini but sold well
They're actually two of DC books I get. DCeased, world's finest, dark knights of steel, and now Doom patrol are all my DC books.
REVIVE THE SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE! Through the mail was the only way I could get comics as a kid in the Midwest.
More rants please
I really enjoyed this! I always enjoy listening to you guys talk about industry stuff like this.
Great show
I’m sick of the manga is better because it’s has one author narrative
Yeah, look at dragon ball right now, or debately forever with how much the editor had a hey hand in big moments
@@flashtheshapeshafter even one piece oda talk about how if he didn't have editor the story would have been a lot longer and the straw hats would have went to a lot more island now one piece feels pretty streamline
@@revolutionarydragon1123 I think the ability to edit yourself and tell a story in a finite amount of chapters is a skill and having your story bloated like that isn’t necessarily a good thing
@@mathewgalopoulos2669 one piece isn't actually bloated or it doesn't feel bloated one piece the way the world is it feels like interconnected universe without it being one since characters are impacting the world that doesn't involve the main characters
@@revolutionarydragon1123 yeah there are a ton of manga and anime that that large worlds that interconnect but have god awful pacing issues
They only advertise their garbage live action movies
I'll take as much nightwing and Tim drake as I can get. But I must say that new Tim drake series has some of the absolute worst artwork I have EVER seen. It is absolutely horrifying 😂
Sal still basing flashpoint beyond lol, after reading dark crisis #7 dc should stop put crisis in titles, this change nothing, just waste of time and money.
You can't say that manga is beating western comics because western comics are "woke". If you want to believe that representation is bad, no, but also manga is 1000x more "woke".
Yes he can say that.
I think the main thing is that the manga industry knows how to separate genres. I pick up the cooking manga and 90% of it will be about cooking. The hero manga will be about becoming a hero and what a hero means. Mob psycho is about importance of self improvememt/humilty. Some people say that Attack on titan switched from easy to understand "us vs them" to political shades of gray. I'd say attack on titan was about shades of gray since the first few arcs.
Because most dc and marvel characters have been written for 50 years. People have to spice up writing and most of the time it becomes convoluted. That can mean following characters no one is interested in or tell a story just to subvert.
I agree that manga is more LGBTQ+ positive, but not more "woke". The LGBQT manga tells a story relative to that topic not because they can get corporate/twitter brownie points if they include LGBTQ charcters.
Dragon ball isn't suddenly about law for a season or a fully fledged romance story. A pure romance story isn't going to later become Mecha story or supernatural story.
You can pick up the story you want and have the trust it sticks to advertised genre or initial story.
Exactly
Woke isn’t just representation it’s forced diversity for the sake of it whether it hurts the overall story and makes sense or not
@@brandonscott3423 That’s not what woke is, either. Woke is simply being aware of social issues and problems. Having a character be gay isn’t woke. That’s how those characters are. You can say it’s annoying if they go on a whole rant for a few panels about social issues, but it sucks when people exaggerated how prevalent that is. It always happens in a few comics, too.
I'm also happy that the main books don't have tie-ins. It sucks reading a book when suddenly the issues need to go off and cover the event. Random tie-ins are better.
What's the source of the thumbnail? I'm curious cuz it looks cool
Comic shop news is pretty dope
Honestly a lot of it is bad writing and they should lean more towards their animated stuff cause people actually like it
Cool video I gotta say
The comic industry needs to accept that it's a losing business proposition to expect people to pay $4-5 to read a single story on a per-issue basis when it's more affordable, space-saving, and desirable to buy the same story 8 months later in a complete collected trade.
You CANNOT be an industry that relies on serialization and then create a business model where serialization costs 2-3x as much for the consumer than waiting to buy until the story arc has been collected into a paperback. Especially when your industry is competing with traditional books and manga, where you are getting 250+ pages of complete story content for the same price or lower as two to three issues of an incomplete story.
These guys should read berserk manga.
They’ll binge it in five days, and then what?
@@cybercop0083 it’s a pretty big book.
@@daquenking5261 but it's also a pretty addicting story. a swift read to boot.
Btw if you’re reading punchline it’s being referenced in cat woman
I feel like you can’t compare manga and comics it’s like apples and oranges. How manga is marketed is completely different from comics. Also mangas also have light novel adaptations that tell a deeper story. And anime drives ppl to go read the manga.
Comics are working in reverse. They’re making comics based on the movies. Anime’s might have modifications from the manga but they are pretty similar or they will put out one anime version and then do another anime version that is even closer to the manga like full metal alchemist versus brotherhood
40:18
Im pretty bruce timm said he never pictured them together they really were just friends until dc made fanon canon
Flash is the best it has been in over a decade and just gets better every issue and people being unaware of that is tragic
If sals here so am I!!! Love that dude.
Also, it’s so fucking expensive to buy comics every week! the companies release tons of them weekly and ask me to support the ones I like or they will be canceled
Sal hates this topic so much 😂
Watch Sal slowly go full Lewis Black. ;)
I think Writers are tired of writing for these characters in their status quo
DC and Marvel should've teamed up and made an imprint called Amalgam years ago. For f sake the Avengers, Spiderman and Eren Yaeger have had a crossover before Spiderverse even existed!
Edit: Gimme Batman vs Daredevil plz
I think that was around the same time
I think the main thing is that the manga industry knows how to separate genres. I pick up the cooking manga and 90% of it will be about cooking. The hero manga will be about becoming a hero and what a hero means. Mob psycho is about importance of self improvememt/humilty. Some people say that Attack on titan switched from easy to understand "us vs them" to political shades of gray. I'd say attack on titan was about shades of gray since the first few arcs.
Because most dc and marvel characters have been written for 50 years. People have to spice up writing and most of the time it becomes convoluted. That can mean following characters no one is interested in or tell a story just to subvert.
I agree that manga is more LGBTQ+ positive, but not more "woke". The LGBQT manga tells a story relative to that topic not because they can get corporate/twitter brownie points if they include LGBTQ charcters.
Dragon ball isn't suddenly about law for a season or a fully fledged romance story. A pure romance story isn't going to later become Mecha story or supernatural story.
You can pick up the story you want and have the trust it sticks to advertised genre or initial story.
Ease of entry. Like Benny said. You start at volume 1 and have a 90% certainty it's going to finish, and with the same author. If it didn't finish its because most likely the story fell off.
Serms DC put everything on hold.
Why does the big two think we’re mind-readers?
DC had a decent idea with comics sold at Walmart and the like, but they need to improve how to sell their own books through better coordination and support.
Euro comics to the moon!
Having an interconnected universe is not as much of a highlight of the medium as Benny is trying to claim.
I would argue that most people just want a good story. Preferably one that is not impenetrable.
In my opinion.
I started reading comics properly with rebirth. I stopped reading altogether because of two things. I stopped reading DC when it became clear taht Doomsday clock would not matter.
I then stopped reading marvel comics with the 1-2 whammy of Peter Parker entering a coma and Hickman being kicked off of x-men before his time was over.
I do not understand why marvel and DC consistently reject the things which excite new readers. I never would have read a comic of it we’re not for DC Rebirth #1. I always wanted to like x-men but it was not until Hickman came along and made a comic which felt like a story as opposed to a soap opera. Should either story have been allowed to be told I would still be reading comics.
I completely disagree with much of this conversation.
I don’t always want to know what some random character from another brand is doing.
I bought Wonder Woman so that I could read Wonder Woman stories. Not so I could secretly read about Batman…
This is how most literary works. Harry Potter was one succinct story.
Lord of the rings. Etc.
This interconnected universe thing is okay, but far from infallible.
I was already done with DC because of Heroes in Crisis and then Death Metal just pushed me away even further. Maybe DC is took the wrong lesson as to why people don't like events
An entire discussion about comics. And most of the focus was put on two publishers?
Maybe that’s the problem…
👍
Dc comics needs to expand more on their other hero’s. I hate seeing Batman with 5 titles at the store.
I don’t agree with Sal’s dismissal of manga.
They are far more alike than they are different…
By that same logic. We also can’t compare comics to the kids graphic novel market or YA graphic novel market.
Which by the way is doing even better than both western comics and manga…
It’s disingenuous and not helpful.
Talk about Isom
I personally love a lot of the “woke” stuff DC does, because they clearly put effort into most of it. I think stuff like the Pride anthologies is nice. But they still have so many books that aren’t focused on that at all lol
Also lol I totally forgot Williamson did a Batman run because I just read it as another part in his big ongoing thing. Starting right after death metal I enjoyed following the dark crisis stuff
Harley and Ivy were done right they were together but not NOTICE US BEING TOGETHER. They were just together and it was cool np.
The difference is manga has definitive endings while comics act like they have to make their characters lifelong icons. Manga keeps coming up with different ideas/characters in their established genres. Comics just won't let characters pass the mantle. The argument is because the fans won't like it but, I hate to say it, screw the fans.lol
As they said in the video, American comics (specifically superhero related ones) have different advantages than manga, and those strengths should be leaned into. The never ending soap opera is one of the strengths
Also if you mistreat the fans, sooner or later they leave, and Marvel and DC die. Their audience has been shrinking bc too many creators and staff have your mentality.
@@rickrivers2021 when I said screw the fans I mean when it comes to passing the mantles like Batman to Nightwing, only the fans would pushback. I'm probably never gonna be able to word it correctly 😅
There's always Image comics
@@fowlowl7784 Still, the fans are the audience, so if they aren't in for the mantle swap, it shouldn't happen.
I think Nightwing is a great example of why mantle swaps are unnecessary. If he became the next Batman (permanently), he'd never be out of Bruce's shadow. But as Nightwing he has grown to be one of the most popular DC superheroes there is. New characters can be associated with old ones, but they need their own identity to really blossom. Mantle swaps have only been successful in a handful of instances, all rather unique scenarios that can't be regularly replicated. Most of the time, it just hurts the younger character, and it often pisses off customers too when their character is either killed or loses the exclusivity of an identity
They have youtube channels They put trailers for comics and comic events. Also they use Instagram.
Being "woke" isn't the reason comics have been mediocre lately and burning fans out, it's just a symptom of the problem of superficiality in comics, and the self-congratulatory personas that a lot of writers have.
Take Bendis. He created Miles Morales, and you can tell he knew there would be backlash, so he sent off Ultimate Peter in a very well-written, respectful, and satisfying way, and then wrote the hell out of the Miles follow up book. I think he ruined it by bring back Peter later and the character hasn't quite recovered from being shoved into 616, but that's neither here nor there. Miles is a great character.
And then he created Riri Williams. It couldn't be more obvious that the pitch was "black female Iron Man" and literally nothing else. How did she re-create the armor when no one has been able to? "She just did". OK, what's the emotional pull of the character? "The what now"? Who are her supporting cast? "Uh...her mom I guess"? What is she trying to do, what's her deal? "Did I not already say 'black female Iron Man?'" And of course, Iron Man was killed of with no fanfare, and brought back with no fanfare, because "everyone knows death isn't permanent in comics" so why bother?
Yeah, being "woke" is part of what's ruining comics, but not in the sense of representation being bad (it's a good thing), it's just sadly become a very visual indication of a lack of ideas that people can point to. It's all stunts and no character development, hell, barely any complete stories these days. Sure DC, technically I haven't ever seen Tim Drake kiss a guy before. But I'm not going to buy something just because I've never seen it before, and sometimes you shouldn't do everything you think of...because Tim is not gay or bi, despite somebody coming in 30 years later and saying so. I hadn't seen Batman call Dick retarded and force him to eat rats either until you showed me, and I regret paying money to read that, because that's not something Batman would do.
If they really care about representation, they wouldn't do what they're doing, because if any character can do and be anything at any time, or die and come back with no thought or emotion put into it, how can anyone relate to any character? What's the point of writing a Batman book if he's not going to do Batman things? And now they've created a problem because to some people, for example Batman kills people happily and frequently. So DC has competing fanbases for the same characters, and if they don't do some damage control and fast, no one will ever again be happy with what they put out, fans can't unite because we don't even like the same thing anymore.
I know it's not for outsiders at all but every week I always check League of Comic Geeks to see everything out every week and whats going on in books im not reading.
Have never missed anything that way. You guys should do that.
You complain about super heroes not being easy to get into but you also complain about how there are several unconnected Batman books which can be read on their own. Now personally i prefer the connected model, because that's the main thing that you only really get in super hero comics
I can’t speak for all readers, but I stopped reading them cause I can’t find them anymore. Local shop closed, nearest one to me is now a 2 hour drive. Yet I can go to about 5 stores near me that all have manga. Not one sells comics or trades.
Hi