I am not Mormon, have never been Mormon, have only known a handful of Mormons in my life, and yet here I am obsessed with Mormon Stories. I have listened to almost every Mormon Stories podcast. Not sure why this whole topic is fascinating to me but here we are. 😂
I too am fascinated by the MS podcasts. Mainly because I who was an all in, TBM for the first 32 years of my life can relate to their experiences of suffering in an authoritarian church culture full of worthiness interviews where one is taught shame, blame and guilt. To doubt their doubts, trust others in authority more than oneself because, ‘God speaks to you through them’ and prayer is simply a chance for god to confirm that what ‘they are saying is true’. Very psychologically damaging, especially for teens who are already unsure of themselves. I can relate to them all Thank Heavens I’m free!
I'm not Mormon never Mormon but a historian. You have to know all this Church history to understand US history. I've all of this since the Hoffman days. The Pratts, Whitmers, Whitites, Far West, KBS, all of Nauvoo, Cambelites, burned over district. I had to know it all and did by 1992. But kept reading. I still find something new. I feel so bad for all of you that spent 35 years in and just found out what I knew in 88'. Thanks MS for helping those who suffer.
The religious scrupulousity is something that deeply deeply affected me to the point of going near a deep breakdown. I really want to thank Sam for sharing this. Even now years later as I’m still recovering from it, him sharing his story has been a massive help and made me realise things about my own issues so that now I’ve taken a decisive step to help. Thank you for uploading this John.
In this episode I am particularly impressed with Sam Jr.'s openness about his scrupulosity and also his eloquence in describing what it was like to live with this. I was so happy to hear that he is doing better.
I love the pure honesty and light from Olivia (forgive me if I’ve gotten your name wrong). Thank you John and to the parents for letting the kids perspective being a part of this interview... it’s such an honest and pure perspective. !!!! So good. Thank you, Olivia, for your light and for bringing your story to this exceptional interview. To your brother as well. I love hearing the whole (or most of) family’s steps along the way in your journey.
@11:20 plus, can we take a moment to appreciate and applaud Olivia’s bravery? If you ever see this, Olivia, please know I am totally in awe of you, and I’m sure many others share my admiration. Your future life is going to be *amazing*, based on your strength as shown here.
This resonates with me on multiple levels. I also moved from Washington and now live in East Idaho. My dad is now a bishop and very much lives in a bubble. I hope to God that he also goes down the rabbit hole of race and the priesthood, book of Abraham, Book of Mormon problems, etc. and realizes it’s falsity.
I’m still a believer and had the exact same OCD issues as their son! I’m considerably older than him but I remember all those things. Confession was a huge thing! I was so scared I was going to do the unpardonable sin! You’re not alone!
Having a dad as bishop is incredibly uncomfortable. Severe fear, anxiety, and depression are real side effects for the children of intensely religious parents.
I remember going through a faith crisis for a couple of years, seeing the billboards and being terrified of what would happen if I went to the website. It wasn't until after I accepted that I could go to non church sources and learn things. The Mattson discussion helped me out.
I firmly believe that our confessions are to be between God and ourselves-not between us and another human.....UNLESS.....the wrong that you committed was against that other human. Then your confession should be between you, that human, and God. My life took a serious downward spiral when I confessed to a bishop about my having been raped. He nearly excommunicated me when I needed help the most. It really twisted my mind. I went to an LDS psychologist and told him what happened, and he was stunned at how this bishop dealt with me......but I still felt that as long as the bishop felt this way towards me, I must be bad somehow.....after all, he’s a bishop! We are raised in that church to give too much authority, respect, and power to these men. I have since come to the realization that they are no better than anyone else. They are not God’s mouth-piece. We each have the right to come boldly before the throne of God. I have since liked the irreverent term that my late husband used to refer to the bishopric.....he used to refer to them as the prick bishop.
One of the concerns I have had with the church is men being put in as bishops with no training in how to handle and help those who look to them for guidance. There is a lot of damage that is being done because of that.
Or if it is something you seemingly can’t resolve yourself. I completely agree with this. There is too much subjectivity in approach and rarely an appropriate approach and commensurate level of sympathy and compassion. It’s mostly just guilt and a process of doling out spiritual lashings. It’s a completely unhealthy process.
When I moved to Utah (member for 30 years and never lived in Utah) it was a shock. I contacted the local EQP and Bishop to help me unload a truck (26 foot U-haul) into my garage (I'll unpack later), and no one showed up. The 80 year old Nazarene across the street and his son (visiting from CA) helped us unload. I did not leave the church. I did not take a negative reaction, but was certainly surprised. This is a lovely family and like many of the member of the church, they are not taught to think while growing up. When we come into the world, we seek love, acceptance, acknowledgement and safety. If we do not get this, our subconscious gears up to "protect" us. Kids like that suffer later in life from Toxic Shame and other subconscious traumas. Which is why my Hypnotherapy business is booming. I clear this subconscious trauma. This family still suffers from subconscious trauma. But they are on the path to thinking. BTW, nobody is 'made' Bishop of a ward. They are called. I know you know that. This is not a calling to be desired, as you also know...but man...some folks think they will be "accepted" and "receive their validation" from their friends if they are the Bishop. Wow...what a calling, and that I hope I do not receive. I hope this family is doing well...this is two years past the interview.
i remember picking up on the dark skin curse back in my primary days, and actually asked my primary teacher that if the lamanites in the BOM were the indigenous peoples that we know today. the teacher freaked and said that i shouldn’t say that… looking back on that moment i can’t help but wonder if my teacher gave any more thought to what i said. even as an 8 year old child i was picking up on the racism in the BOM and i am just so grateful i am able to look back on that moment with the knowledge i have today
This young man was living in fear while a member. That is not from God. In 2nd Timothy 1:7 it tells us that, for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self control. God loves all of us he doesn't want us living in fear. This is one of my go to verses. Thank you John for all the work you do.
I had something similar with scripulocity, I started looking at those incidents from a rational point of view and it helped me get past it as well as leaving the church
I do hope succeeding parts will see the women having more of a voice. There’s an imbalance- Olivia spoke up so bravely about questioning her sexuality, then with no real discussion about how difficult it must have been, Sam Jnr is encouraged to go into great detail about his OCD/scrupulousness. While Olivia just sits silently.
My OCD started about 10 years old…some think there may be brain changes due to streptococcal infections as a child. It is hard for others to understand.
I exp similar scrupulosity as a teen, and bizarre extreme literal thoughts. While I was not as devout, I feared I would not be with my family in the CK, lots of shame and OCD patterns mainly manifested as an ED.
I’m finding their story really helpful for me and my kids. Looking forward to watching the other parts. Something I didn’t like is that John calls these women feminists just for wanting basic rights. When the mom didn’t want to “hearken” to her husband - that is a normal reaction for any healthy human being. They might actually be feminists and it’s totally ok for them to identify with that - but my point is that the things they we describing; like wanting to play basketball or owning your own spirituality etc is normal.
The constant confessions sound very much like my daughter a few years ago. We are Anglicans, but I sent my daughter to an Evangelical Nonconformist evening youth group, so she would have some contact with other Christian denomination. However, during that time she was forever fretting about how bad she was, and the "evil in her life". I kept telling her not to be so silly - that she was just a typical young girl - but that didn't help. It was always fret-fret-fret and worry-worry-worry. After we took her away from that youth group, she gradually improved, but in doing so forsook Christianity altogether. Now she's 15 she refuses to come to church with us at all. The lesson is be careful - even if something seems respectable enough, check it out thoroughly yourself before sending your kids there.
Wow, Scrupulousity, I had a version of that while living as a Member of the Church. I also had similar "disucssions/arguments" with my dad over that....hmm. I didn't see that at the time. I am learning something new here, and I have been out of the Church for about 20 years now. (Longer than I was a member, but I was in from ages 5 through 23.)
Sam JR speaks like someone highly educated and twice his age. Impressive. Hope he keeps some humility. Love this family. They’re so supportive (now). Just shows you how unhealthy a family member can get when exposed to crazy ideas. Like going to hell for thought crime. Religion is poisonous, racist, sexist etc. there is some good and when you think you have a god on your side you can excel in life. There’s no doubting that. And the feeing of certainty and eternal life with those you love most. It’s a sales tactic to control and manipulate, o, and get your money. Power and money and sex. Drives people to create religions, especially ones where “god” says it’s ok to merry as many teenage girls as you’d like. Glad you’re supporting a forum for a way out. Hope many members watch and see the falsehoods in the fictional silly Book of Mormon, and the selfish intent of creating a religion. They all are man made btw. It’s quite obvious
I’m not sure if anyone from Mormon Stories actually reads these comments but I’m curious, the title of this story seems to imply that it was a surprise or wrong that Sam was excommunicated. Are you saying that he should not have been???
If you listen to the audio recording and are familiar with the LDS church, there are many surprises about the procedure. Apart from all the irregularities, one of the noteworthy aspects is that the church is opposed to members sharing certain truths.
Did you notice the two women on the panel didn't get to talk much at all and very little about themselves it was all about the kid even the dad got overshadowed by the kid which is very sexist and the whole thing played out in very sexist way and yet the first part of it they were talking about the sexism in the Mormon church and and then they proceeded to be sexist on the show how funny is that bunch, of hypocrites
Olivia and Sam wanted to share their experiences. They were not pressured in any way to participate in this interview. That said, I'm glad they did, as their experiences and perspectives are important and unique.
I am not Mormon, have never been Mormon, have only known a handful of Mormons in my life, and yet here I am obsessed with Mormon Stories. I have listened to almost every Mormon Stories podcast. Not sure why this whole topic is fascinating to me but here we are. 😂
Welcome Krista!!!
Try getting taught by one of the Mormon Missionaries
@@conlonbonner6818 nah, I'll pass. ;)
I too am fascinated by the MS podcasts. Mainly because I who was an all in, TBM for the first 32 years of my life can relate to their experiences of suffering in an authoritarian church culture full of worthiness interviews where one is taught shame, blame and guilt. To doubt their doubts, trust others in authority more than oneself because, ‘God speaks to you through them’ and prayer is simply a chance for god to confirm that what ‘they are saying is true’. Very psychologically damaging, especially for teens who are already unsure of themselves. I can relate to them all Thank Heavens I’m free!
I'm not Mormon never Mormon but a historian. You have to know all this Church history to understand US history. I've all of this since the Hoffman days. The Pratts, Whitmers, Whitites, Far West, KBS, all of Nauvoo, Cambelites, burned over district. I had to know it all and did by 1992. But kept reading. I still find something new.
I feel so bad for all of you that spent 35 years in and just found out what I knew in 88'.
Thanks MS for helping those who suffer.
The religious scrupulousity is something that deeply deeply affected me to the point of going near a deep breakdown. I really want to thank Sam for sharing this. Even now years later as I’m still recovering from it, him sharing his story has been a massive help and made me realise things about my own issues so that now I’ve taken a decisive step to help. Thank you for uploading this John.
In this episode I am particularly impressed with Sam Jr.'s openness about his scrupulosity and also his eloquence in describing what it was like to live with this. I was so happy to hear that he is doing better.
I love the pure honesty and light from Olivia (forgive me if I’ve gotten your name wrong). Thank you John and to the parents for letting the kids perspective being a part of this interview... it’s such an honest and pure perspective. !!!! So good. Thank you, Olivia, for your light and for bringing your story to this exceptional interview. To your brother as well. I love hearing the whole (or most of) family’s steps along the way in your journey.
@11:20 plus, can we take a moment to appreciate and applaud Olivia’s bravery?
If you ever see this, Olivia, please know I am totally in awe of you, and I’m sure many others share my admiration. Your future life is going to be *amazing*, based on your strength as shown here.
This resonates with me on multiple levels. I also moved from Washington and now live in East Idaho. My dad is now a bishop and very much lives in a bubble. I hope to God that he also goes down the rabbit hole of race and the priesthood, book of Abraham, Book of Mormon problems, etc. and realizes it’s falsity.
Thank you John Delhin for the work you do.
I’m still a believer and had the exact same OCD issues as their son! I’m considerably older than him but I remember all those things. Confession was a huge thing! I was so scared I was going to do the unpardonable sin! You’re not alone!
So sorry, luv. I hope you're doing better.
I've been glued to this, as you are such an adorable family. I'm happy you found your way out of the Mormon church too.
Much Love!
It’s amazing to see how much this family grew together. Love the podcast. Keep up the good work!
I'm seriously falling in love with this family. Super good people!🤗🤗🤗
Loved this episode.
Having a dad as bishop is incredibly uncomfortable. Severe fear, anxiety, and depression are real side effects for the children of intensely religious parents.
I remember going through a faith crisis for a couple of years, seeing the billboards and being terrified of what would happen if I went to the website.
It wasn't until after I accepted that I could go to non church sources and learn things. The Mattson discussion helped me out.
I firmly believe that our confessions are to be between God and ourselves-not between us and another human.....UNLESS.....the wrong that you committed was against that other human. Then your confession should be between you, that human, and God.
My life took a serious downward spiral when I confessed to a bishop about my having been raped. He nearly excommunicated me when I needed help the most. It really twisted my mind. I went to an LDS psychologist and told him what happened, and he was stunned at how this bishop dealt with me......but I still felt that as long as the bishop felt this way towards me, I must be bad somehow.....after all, he’s a bishop!
We are raised in that church to give too much authority, respect, and power to these men. I have since come to the realization that they are no better than anyone else. They are not God’s mouth-piece. We each have the right to come boldly before the throne of God.
I have since liked the irreverent term that my late husband used to refer to the bishopric.....he used to refer to them as the prick bishop.
Amen.
Thanks for having the courage to share that. So many harmful and destructive things happen in the church, and so many people are unaware of them.
One of the concerns I have had with the church is men being put in as bishops with no training in how to handle and help those who look to them for guidance. There is a lot of damage that is being done because of that.
Or if it is something you seemingly can’t resolve yourself. I completely agree with this. There is too much subjectivity in approach and rarely an appropriate approach and commensurate level of sympathy and compassion. It’s mostly just guilt and a process of doling out spiritual lashings. It’s a completely unhealthy process.
When I moved to Utah (member for 30 years and never lived in Utah) it was a shock. I contacted the local EQP and Bishop to help me unload a truck (26 foot U-haul) into my garage (I'll unpack later), and no one showed up. The 80 year old Nazarene across the street and his son (visiting from CA) helped us unload. I did not leave the church. I did not take a negative reaction, but was certainly surprised.
This is a lovely family and like many of the member of the church, they are not taught to think while growing up.
When we come into the world, we seek love, acceptance, acknowledgement and safety. If we do not get this, our subconscious gears up to "protect" us. Kids like that suffer later in life from Toxic Shame and other subconscious traumas. Which is why my Hypnotherapy business is booming. I clear this subconscious trauma.
This family still suffers from subconscious trauma. But they are on the path to thinking.
BTW, nobody is 'made' Bishop of a ward. They are called. I know you know that. This is not a calling to be desired, as you also know...but man...some folks think they will be "accepted" and "receive their validation" from their friends if they are the Bishop. Wow...what a calling, and that I hope I do not receive.
I hope this family is doing well...this is two years past the interview.
i remember picking up on the dark skin curse back in my primary days, and actually asked my primary teacher that if the lamanites in the BOM were the indigenous peoples that we know today. the teacher freaked and said that i shouldn’t say that… looking back on that moment i can’t help but wonder if my teacher gave any more thought to what i said. even as an 8 year old child i was picking up on the racism in the BOM and i am just so grateful i am able to look back on that moment with the knowledge i have today
My granddaughter will be baptized next year. My TBM wife told me I will be there. So many conflicting feelings regarding this.
I also, as Sara, moved from Indiana to Idaho at that age. I concur 100% with her observations of the church culture shift.
This young man was living in fear while a member. That is not from God. In 2nd Timothy 1:7 it tells us that, for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self control. God loves all of us he doesn't want us living in fear. This is one of my go to verses. Thank you John for all the work you do.
He was suffering from religious scrupulosity, a form of OCD.
I had something similar with scripulocity, I started looking at those incidents from a rational point of view and it helped me get past it as well as leaving the church
I do hope succeeding parts will see the women having more of a voice.
There’s an imbalance- Olivia spoke up so bravely about questioning her sexuality, then with no real discussion about how difficult it must have been, Sam Jnr is encouraged to go into great detail about his OCD/scrupulousness. While Olivia just sits silently.
My OCD started about 10 years old…some think there may be brain changes due to streptococcal infections as a child. It is hard for others to understand.
I exp similar scrupulosity as a teen, and bizarre extreme literal thoughts. While I was not as devout, I feared I would not be with my family in the CK, lots of shame and OCD patterns mainly manifested as an ED.
Minderellah eating disorder
I’m finding their story really helpful for me and my kids. Looking forward to watching the other parts.
Something I didn’t like is that John calls these women feminists just for wanting basic rights. When the mom didn’t want to “hearken” to her husband - that is a normal reaction for any healthy human being. They might actually be feminists and it’s totally ok for them to identify with that - but my point is that the things they we describing; like wanting to play basketball or owning your own spirituality etc is normal.
Wow, I didn't know that scrupulosity was a thing... That happened to me, too
Sign Sam jr. up as the next great leader of America!
The constant confessions sound very much like my daughter a few years ago. We are Anglicans, but I sent my daughter to an Evangelical Nonconformist evening youth group, so she would have some contact with other Christian denomination. However, during that time she was forever fretting about how bad she was, and the "evil in her life". I kept telling her not to be so silly - that she was just a typical young girl - but that didn't help. It was always fret-fret-fret and worry-worry-worry. After we took her away from that youth group, she gradually improved, but in doing so forsook Christianity altogether. Now she's 15 she refuses to come to church with us at all. The lesson is be careful - even if something seems respectable enough, check it out thoroughly yourself before sending your kids there.
Just to let everyone know, Sam Jr is my boyfriend 😍
❤️👏
It’s true 😜
as an Ex Jdubb, I am finding this channel transformational
Yay!!!
I wonder what the brother thinks about their situation now? Wonder if they have talked and have found common ground?
TIL Scrupulosity. 👍
Wow, Scrupulousity, I had a version of that while living as a Member of the Church. I also had similar "disucssions/arguments" with my dad over that....hmm. I didn't see that at the time. I am learning something new here, and I have been out of the Church for about 20 years now. (Longer than I was a member, but I was in from ages 5 through 23.)
Sam JR speaks like someone highly educated and twice his age. Impressive. Hope he keeps some humility. Love this family. They’re so supportive (now). Just shows you how unhealthy a family member can get when exposed to crazy ideas. Like going to hell for thought crime. Religion is poisonous, racist, sexist etc. there is some good and when you think you have a god on your side you can excel in life. There’s no doubting that. And the feeing of certainty and eternal life with those you love most. It’s a sales tactic to control and manipulate, o, and get your money. Power and money and sex. Drives people to create religions, especially ones where “god” says it’s ok to merry as many teenage girls as you’d like. Glad you’re supporting a forum for a way out. Hope many members watch and see the falsehoods in the fictional silly Book of Mormon, and the selfish intent of creating a religion. They all are man made btw. It’s quite obvious
I heard talk about the gospel! Who's gospel are you all taking about?
I’m not sure if anyone from Mormon Stories actually reads these comments but I’m curious, the title of this story seems to imply that it was a surprise or wrong that Sam was excommunicated. Are you saying that he should not have been???
If you listen to the audio recording and are familiar with the LDS church, there are many surprises about the procedure. Apart from all the irregularities, one of the noteworthy aspects is that the church is opposed to members sharing certain truths.
I found this page while studying apologetics. The Bible can withstand scrutiny.
The bible is no different than Dianetics.
@@jaysoncohen8250
Now that's funny🤣
Has anyone checked for PANDAs? This is OCD behavior brought on by strep infections.
Huh? Can anyone please explain?
Lol!!!
Did you notice the two women on the panel didn't get to talk much at all and very little about themselves it was all about the kid even the dad got overshadowed by the kid which is very sexist and the whole thing played out in very sexist way and yet the first part of it they were talking about the sexism in the Mormon church and and then they proceeded to be sexist on the show how funny is that bunch, of hypocrites
Did they really need to get kids involved?
Olivia and Sam wanted to share their experiences. They were not pressured in any way to participate in this interview. That said, I'm glad they did, as their experiences and perspectives are important and unique.