Mr Bass, Mr Mid, and Mr Treble are three next door neighbors. B and M do not get along and have a tall and very narrow fence between their yards. Neither is allowed to stretch a finger into the others yard. They have a high db slope. M and T, on the other hand, are very chummy. They don’t have a fence at all, just an understanding that the property line is somewhere between here and there, and it’s ok to borrow a cup of sugar every now and then. They have a low db slope. High db slope = line drawn with a sharpie with little bleed. Low db slope = a lot of bleed because the line is wide and fuzzy.
Thanks for understanding we all are not engineers. It can be very humbling trying to understand all the giber w car audio, and really sucks trying to find info and understanding. When someone like you is genuine w their understanding it is very refreshing
Some describe the crossover frequency as a "hand off" point, where the filter network (coils, capacitors, and resistors) work together to make sure only low frequencies get to the woofer and only high frequencies get to the tweeter. Using the term "hand off" just shows they don't understand how that network really works. A full range audio signal arrives at the filter network, woofer and tweeter are wired in parallel, meaning each could POTENTIALLY get the full signal. But the coil chokes out higher frequencies, meaning only the low frequencies are able to get to the woofer section. At the same time (there is no "hand off") the full range signal is filtered by capacitors to prevent low frequencies from getting to the tweeter. When components are chosen correctly for the frequency responses of the drivers, and the impedance of the woofer, then a "crossover point" will happen at the desired frequency. But it is important to realize there is NO "hand off", each section operates independently, neither "knows" what the other is doing, but with a good design it doesn't matter. Some people successfully design speakers for years without ever understanding how the filter network functions and where the crossover point actually comes from. And most don't care, which is fine if the product performs as desired. But some may want to know how it all actually works.
You know your stuff but you didn't explain that 6 dB crossover very well. In the example of 1000 Hz low pass crossover the bass signal doesn't stay flat until 1000 Hz. The roll off starts at a somewhat lower frequency. The impedance of the coil is a function of frequency, as the frequency gets higher the roll off gets more and more pronounced. It is really a "filter" and not an actual "crossover." The coil filters out high frequencies, the capacitor filters out low frequencies, together the coil and the capacitor, chosen appropriately, can give a pretty flat response over the full range.
Paul, Perhaps it might be beneficial to add to this the how and why the purpose/effect of the simpler xover components... the choke (coil) and capacitor. Couple this with simple graphs showing the downslope vs. freq.
Engineering, audio and real estate aside, your are just a great guy! You have a respect for people and your passions that just seems to go on forever….Thank you!
I would like to see a discussion about EQ and how frequencies relate to instruments, but even more how compression and limiting relates to EQ. I have had everything seemingly set just right with nice sweet highs and increase the lower band limiting just a bit and the whole upper midrange on up goes completely mad, overbearing, harsh siblences etc. I would like to know how I can keep the upper octaves under tight wraps and still have good upper extension without overdoing it.
I still don't understand, but that's not Paul's fault. I bi-amp my Magnepan 3.3s. My crossover is a Behringer CX2300. It has near unlimited crossover points, but I simply set them where my system sounds the best.
The Slopes are pretty self explanatory what can bring Confusion is the terms First, Second Third and Fourth order Low Pass-filter. But that is explained in this video .Higher order simply means Steaper low-pass with more Db,s of high frequency cut off filter at the point you setting your low pass crossover filter for example 50 hz. Above that crossover point you have -24db of filter cut off higher frequency starting from 50 HZ.With 4th order.The orders definitely have there place in construction of hardware crossover filters using Coils for Low Pass filters and capacitor for high pass filter. In a electronic crossover filtering system everything is sweepable so you can set up your crossover filter anyway you want .On a electronic crossover filter system it’s simply low pass filter frequency and db of gain -6 -12 -18 -24 but not always called 1-4 order instead it’s called slope.
So in other words, low/high pass filters aren’t all or nothing… some frequencies outside the range pass through, but they’re just not as loud? I ask because I have a powered sub and powered tops but I like the fullness that full range pass through gives. My filters are the ones that exist in the speakers (with no control over their settings). Would I get benefit from a more advanced crossover set with a more gradual slope allowing my tops to put out some (but not all) lower frequencies? Is that correct?
What is the piece of equipment sitting on the bench next to you. A DirectStream DAC Mk II? The large vent on top might indicate that there are tubes inside.
Get a real estate attorney Paul. Trust no one even friends if you don’t know the real estate business. My friend is well on his way to his first billion but he’s been in real estate for 50 years. He knows what he’s doing and he refi’s everything he purchases for all cash. If you decide to ‘refi’ or refinance you’ll have to submit so much paperwork and do so many inspections ordered by the lender and I won’t go any further because it can get really complicated at least in Florida. You need to be a real ‘player’ to do this and it can turn into a house of cards. When it works it’s incredible but if something goes wrong in the real estate industry oh boy!
I'm a mechanical technologist/machinist and we have our terms as well. Drives my wife crazy when we start talking, "Thous" (.001"). I enjoy building speakers, but I was never much for crossover design. I understand it, somewhat, but building my own crossover? HELL NO! This certainly sheds some light on how they work. I understand what the coils, caps and resistors do, just don't know what values to use in the circuits. I'll stick to mechanical stuff and I'll let the experts stick to the electronics stuff!
OK Paul, now I am verrrrrrrrrryy curious... You said, " ... you choose what you want in terms of slope. How quickly do you want to get out of it, because all of them have baggage that goes with it that we're not going to discuss right now....." PLEASE Discuss this or should I send an email requesting a topic on Ask Paul.. :)
Electrical Engineers speak in terms of dB per decade per pole (20) whereas audio engineers speak in terms of dB per octave per pole (6). Decade tends to be more useful for non-musical signal processing.
In my work I am expected to speak in much the same terms that Paul uses in his videos. If I don't it comes off like I'm trying to get one over on somebody by adding to the confusion.
@@mm-tg8oo In case "BB" doesn't respond to you ... a 6dB filter is simply a coil to choke out the highs from the woofer and a capacitor to block the lows from the tweeter. Therefore nothing is there to cause phase shifts. If you additionally slope the baffle slightly the radiating surfaces of the woofer and tweeter are also time-aligned. With well chosen drivers this design performs great. But there are tradeoffs and that is why most premium speakers use 12dB, 18dB, or greater slope filters, with appropriate additional circuitry to correct phase issues. That drives up the price and lowers the speaker's efficiency thus requiring more power to drive it to the desired volume. In theory it improves the quality of the sound reproduction.
@@mm-tg8oo The baffle is just the front panel of the speaker and it usually is vertical. A woofer is deeper than a tweeter. So with the tweeter above the woofer, if you tilt the front (the baffle) back the right amount the radiating surfaces of both the woofer and the tweeter end up in the same plane thus arrive at the listening position at the same time. This is especially important for frequencies near the crossover point where both drivers have measurable output. Look up the Xavian XN 360 speaker for an example how a sloping baffle looks. I built a 2-way in that design.
Acronyms are terrible for those whom don't understand a specialized matter. But they are extremely important for specialists to talk about their area of expertise because acronyms do speed-up the ideas exposure. You can save a lot of time using an acronym instead of repeating a concept well known for those specialists. Funny dough....
Mr Bass, Mr Mid, and Mr Treble are three next door neighbors.
B and M do not get along and have a tall and very narrow fence between their yards. Neither is allowed to stretch a finger into the others yard. They have a high db slope.
M and T, on the other hand, are very chummy. They don’t have a fence at all, just an understanding that the property line is somewhere between here and there, and it’s ok to borrow a cup of sugar every now and then. They have a low db slope.
High db slope = line drawn with a sharpie with little bleed.
Low db slope = a lot of bleed because the line is wide and fuzzy.
Now I got it, thanks.
Amazing !
Now we need a video explaining July rabbits.
I love Paul's sultry goodbyes.
Showing a graph might help
Thanks for understanding we all are not engineers. It can be very humbling trying to understand all the giber w car audio, and really sucks trying to find info and understanding. When someone like you is genuine w their understanding it is very refreshing
A bit confusing but I can play it again everytime I want. Thank u Paul! Subscriber from Philippines!
Some describe the crossover frequency as a "hand off" point, where the filter network (coils, capacitors, and resistors) work together to make sure only low frequencies get to the woofer and only high frequencies get to the tweeter. Using the term "hand off" just shows they don't understand how that network really works. A full range audio signal arrives at the filter network, woofer and tweeter are wired in parallel, meaning each could POTENTIALLY get the full signal. But the coil chokes out higher frequencies, meaning only the low frequencies are able to get to the woofer section. At the same time (there is no "hand off") the full range signal is filtered by capacitors to prevent low frequencies from getting to the tweeter. When components are chosen correctly for the frequency responses of the drivers, and the impedance of the woofer, then a "crossover point" will happen at the desired frequency.
But it is important to realize there is NO "hand off", each section operates independently, neither "knows" what the other is doing, but with a good design it doesn't matter. Some people successfully design speakers for years without ever understanding how the filter network functions and where the crossover point actually comes from. And most don't care, which is fine if the product performs as desired. But some may want to know how it all actually works.
Awesome 🤩. Explanation for passive/active loudspeakers.
thanks very much for that paul.been wanting to know that when im fiddling about with my set up.
Yay, I finally get it. Thanks, Paul!
Great information! Thanks!
Thank you for this great explanation!
Finally, an explanation I can understand! Thanks!!
Thank you Paul!
Nice explanation Paul.
Fantastic explanation
You know your stuff but you didn't explain that 6 dB crossover very well. In the example of 1000 Hz low pass crossover the bass signal doesn't stay flat until 1000 Hz. The roll off starts at a somewhat lower frequency. The impedance of the coil is a function of frequency, as the frequency gets higher the roll off gets more and more pronounced. It is really a "filter" and not an actual "crossover." The coil filters out high frequencies, the capacitor filters out low frequencies, together the coil and the capacitor, chosen appropriately, can give a pretty flat response over the full range.
"We all have our stuff..." Profound shit Paul.
Paul,
Perhaps it might be beneficial to add to this the how and why the purpose/effect of the simpler xover components... the choke (coil) and capacitor. Couple this with simple graphs showing the downslope vs. freq.
Engineering, audio and real estate aside, your are just a great guy!
You have a respect for people and your passions that just seems to go on forever….Thank you!
Actual discussion of crossovers starts @ 2:50
Super helpful thank you, now I better u derstanding parabolic eq
I would like to see a discussion about EQ and how frequencies relate to instruments, but even more how compression and limiting relates to EQ. I have had everything seemingly set just right with nice sweet highs and increase the lower band limiting just a bit and the whole upper midrange on up goes completely mad, overbearing, harsh siblences etc. I would like to know how I can keep the upper octaves under tight wraps and still have good upper extension without overdoing it.
Here’s the answer. Touch grass. 🤡
Can tell Paul's age by his usage of "cycles". How many of you remember seeing cps in specs.
I still don't understand, but that's not Paul's fault. I bi-amp my Magnepan 3.3s. My crossover is a Behringer CX2300. It has near unlimited crossover points, but I simply set them where my system sounds the best.
The Slopes are pretty self explanatory what can bring Confusion is the terms First, Second Third and Fourth order Low Pass-filter. But that is explained in this video .Higher order simply means Steaper low-pass with more Db,s of high frequency cut off filter at the point you setting your low pass crossover filter for example 50 hz. Above that crossover point you have -24db of filter cut off higher frequency starting from 50 HZ.With 4th order.The orders definitely have there place in construction of hardware crossover filters using Coils for Low Pass filters and capacitor for high pass filter. In a electronic crossover filtering system everything is sweepable so you can set up your crossover filter anyway you want .On a electronic crossover filter system it’s simply low pass filter frequency and db of gain -6 -12 -18 -24 but not always called 1-4 order instead it’s called slope.
So in other words, low/high pass filters aren’t all or nothing… some frequencies outside the range pass through, but they’re just not as loud?
I ask because I have a powered sub and powered tops but I like the fullness that full range pass through gives. My filters are the ones that exist in the speakers (with no control over their settings). Would I get benefit from a more advanced crossover set with a more gradual slope allowing my tops to put out some (but not all) lower frequencies?
Is that correct?
Ooh.. Oooh... Are those your new speakers? They look so much easier to find room for and Enjoy is such a cool name. Bwahahaha
well, that was more difficult than necessary...
Paul, is that your new streamer on the bench?😄
What is the piece of equipment sitting on the bench next to you. A DirectStream DAC Mk II? The large vent on top might indicate that there are tubes inside.
I was wondering about that too. My guess is that it might be their upcoming streamer.
Get a real estate attorney Paul. Trust no one even friends if you don’t know the real estate business. My friend is well on his way to his first billion but he’s been in real estate for 50 years. He knows what he’s doing and he refi’s everything he purchases for all cash. If you decide to ‘refi’ or refinance you’ll have to submit so much paperwork and do so many inspections ordered by the lender and I won’t go any further because it can get really complicated at least in Florida. You need to be a real ‘player’ to do this and it can turn into a house of cards. When it works it’s incredible but if something goes wrong in the real estate industry oh boy!
I was having similar thoughts: Paul being screwed out of his ownership of the building by a bank?
@@hugobloemers4425 not necessarily if he has a really good real estate attorney representing him and does not leave his faith and his partners.
I'm a mechanical technologist/machinist and we have our terms as well. Drives my wife crazy when we start talking, "Thous" (.001").
I enjoy building speakers, but I was never much for crossover design. I understand it, somewhat, but building my own crossover? HELL NO!
This certainly sheds some light on how they work. I understand what the coils, caps and resistors do, just don't know what values to use in the circuits.
I'll stick to mechanical stuff and I'll let the experts stick to the electronics stuff!
Yo, anyone know any solution to a decent sounding SATA cable`?
Still trying to workout why audiophools think gold plating spdif optical make them sound better
OK Paul, now I am verrrrrrrrrryy curious...
You said, " ... you choose what you want in terms of slope. How quickly do you want to get out of it, because all of them have baggage that goes with it that we're not going to discuss right now....."
PLEASE Discuss this or should I send an email requesting a topic on Ask Paul.. :)
I've got a case of the slopes 😅
So a Butterworth br48 is basically like hitting a brick wall?
HPF set at 30 and LPF at 80
I want literally everything under 30 gone
The BT48 is best?
Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, & Bessel Filters Explained
Electrical Engineers speak in terms of dB per decade per pole (20) whereas audio engineers speak in terms of dB per octave per pole (6). Decade tends to be more useful for non-musical signal processing.
Great example as I’m in the mortgage business and I think nothing of those terms. But I struggle to understand electronics
In my work I am expected to speak in much the same terms that Paul uses in his videos. If I don't it comes off like I'm trying to get one over on somebody by adding to the confusion.
6 dB is the only way to have a time-aligned, phase coherent crossover, which is why it's what John Dunlavy used exclusively.
I'd like to hear more about that.
@@mm-tg8oo In case "BB" doesn't respond to you ... a 6dB filter is simply a coil to choke out the highs from the woofer and a capacitor to block the lows from the tweeter. Therefore nothing is there to cause phase shifts. If you additionally slope the baffle slightly the radiating surfaces of the woofer and tweeter are also time-aligned. With well chosen drivers this design performs great. But there are tradeoffs and that is why most premium speakers use 12dB, 18dB, or greater slope filters, with appropriate additional circuitry to correct phase issues. That drives up the price and lowers the speaker's efficiency thus requiring more power to drive it to the desired volume. In theory it improves the quality of the sound reproduction.
@@txmike1945 Thank you sonmuch for that. Please explain "slope the baffle".
@@mm-tg8oo The baffle is just the front panel of the speaker and it usually is vertical. A woofer is deeper than a tweeter. So with the tweeter above the woofer, if you tilt the front (the baffle) back the right amount the radiating surfaces of both the woofer and the tweeter end up in the same plane thus arrive at the listening position at the same time. This is especially important for frequencies near the crossover point where both drivers have measurable output. Look up the Xavian XN 360 speaker for an example how a sloping baffle looks. I built a 2-way in that design.
@@txmike1945 That is very interesting.
Nice, but this would have been a good opportunity for a chalk-talk.
...24db/octave 👌
Acronyms are terrible for those whom don't understand a specialized matter. But they are extremely important for specialists to talk about their area of expertise because acronyms do speed-up the ideas exposure. You can save a lot of time using an acronym instead of repeating a concept well known for those specialists. Funny dough....
Paul u lost me somewhere in between plz do this on a white board.
I'm guessing you've got those crappy PC speakers there so you can listen to what bad speakers sound like every now and then :p
I thought your were really rich.
Get to the point please
This video is brutal, pompus little man