@@arrkyna Thanks, I'm aware of that, but I prefer to see and handle the product and hopefully have a demo before purchasing. Also, if I order from Amazon the government adds a huge import duty!
That's a thing a HATE with many of todays recordings. They have pumped up the volume so extreme so if you've played Roger Waters - Amused To Death and have the volume on the same level it's almost so get your drivers in your speaker toasted when your newly bought and recorded CD starts.
Semester at Sea is sponsored by Colorado State University and still is around. I was on the Spring 1969 semester. One of the best college experiences ever. Highly recommended.
@@jamesrobinson9176 It is a fully accredited liberal arts college. My semester left LA and head west for the next 4 months until we landed in NYC and drove home from there, completing a circumnavigating of the globe.
What's that mean? My CD player, tape deck & especially turntable doesn't have their own volume settings. Volume levels are also different between some recordings.
@@jesusgavemeaids AVRs and preamps often have separate level adjustments for their various inputs, but often the output from the turntable’s cartridge is so low that there’s not enough adjustment to cover the difference, so you have to volume up for vinyl and volume way back down for everything else.
This is what I was looking for, my DAC has a remote with volume control SMSL SU8S to be precise. NAD 165BEE Pre amp is a one with volume control too but no remote, i had kept pre amp at 50% and controlling volume on DAC. Power amplifier has no volume, should I do what you suggest? Max out DAC volume?
Technically speaking yes. The NAD volume control will give beter performance. However if you like or insist on using the remote you'll want to use the volume on the DAC as high as you prefer to listen to music. Max out the DAC and then slowly adjust the preamp volume to the maximum you would ever want to hear for sustained periods. That becomes the new max volume and allows the DAC to operate with minimal degradation because you are using the upper range of the volume control.
I need to use my DAC for attenuation because my amp blasts at two notches from infinity already and it has channel imbalance at low level (one notch :p)
Would attenuators work to reduce the gain between a preamp and a power amp? I am using a Topping D10s DAC (no volume control) and a xduoo MT-602 tube preamp into a Hafler DH-200 power amp (also no volume control). So the 602 is the volume knob, but it has a high output level noted by reviewers, so the system gets too loud when I turn the knob up past 8 o'clock. Wondering if line-level attenuators that reduce the signal by 12 dB would allow me to get the 602 knob up to half or two-thirds, as Paul suggests. Does anyone have experience with this?
I do this with my sources. You can get some very pure attenuation for $50 using something like a Schiit SYS or JDS OL Switcher. I have a JDS after my DAC because it runs much louder than my phono stage.
@@bluesman608 It's just a simple Alps 10k potentiometer (same as the Schiit SYS), and it only acts like a volume knob you can put in-line between sources and level match by ear. I have one of each in my system and I believe they provide perfectly transparent passive attenuation. They aren't going to give buttery smooth and precise volume control like an Alps Blue Velvet, but it should get the job done to level-match your sources.
Hi Paul, I am using a DAC with a lossless volume control, and I use my preamp for volume control.... I would imagine based on your video here that it would not matter whether I have the DAC set to loud or low volume in this case since it features a lossless volume control, am I correct? Thanks...
Technically, yes, but since every preamp sound different depending on where its volume control is, it probably pays to set the DAC to where your preamp's control is at a comfortable level about 12 noon when playing at reasonable volume levels.
Fun Fact about the Paradise that is Cape Town: The city in Dredd is Cape Town unedited aside from adding in the mega-towers. Everything else - all that nastiness is filmed on location, and left as is.
Thank you! What about the volume in the DSP of your software? I use Roon and I use this volume control. Does software controlled volume controls introduce a degradation of sound?
Roon has pretty decent volume control for software based systems. Still, it sounds better when fixed at max. That said, if I was stuck using Roon for volume control, I would not be unhappy. Many people will claim that volume is best done inside the DAC chip itself - and this is in my experience better than using Roon, but it is very dependent on the implementation. My DAC chip only adjusts in the top 10% of it's range, and the output is then attenuated in 10% steps through a series of relays. My signal path is HQPlayer set at -9dB, HQPlayer NAA on a Sonore Optical Rendu, into a Matrix Audio Element-X, then the power amp. I use Roon only to handle play back (it is an excellent player), I use none of the dsp etc. HQPlayer is set at -9 because I get some clipping at -6dB.
Why does the last volume level (generally the preamp) have to be around 50% of the way up? The way my system is now, I can't turn my pre up past 25%... It's too loud. Am I losing quality by not having my pre around 50% on the volume level? Should I lower my DAC volume to achieve that on my pre? What do I gain by doing that?
@Douglas Blake how would I notice distortion? I don't think I ever played my system loud enough to know what that would sound like.. what should I be listening for?
@@shawnmathew825 Clipping (of the type talked about here) will be audible mostly in the upper midrange as distortion. Listen to male tenors (not singing in falsetto) or female mezzo-sopranos. It is also often audible in cymbal rides, and snare drums. It is also very audible, though hard to detect until you hear it, on Stratocaster guitars running a distortion pedal. The song I use the most for listening for it is Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother. From about 6 or 8 minutes in, there is a mixed chorus where the male voices start low and crescendo over the female voices. You will really hear clipping distortion in this track, and it will move you emotionally even if it not your style of music. When clipping is there, the voices get muddied and loose their emotional impact (the male singers in particular really dig deep go go all in). The distortion will sound almost like a light fuzz, not quite a hiss. Vocalists like Tori Amos will seem constrained when clipping, but you pretty much have to know how much detail and resonance she has in her voice to know what you are missing. Before and after listening to one of her simple tracks (Bells for Her is a good one) will not only test the limits of how revealing your system is, but really reveal the richness of her voice when she is almost acapella.
People used to pop a record on the turntable or a cassette in a cassette player or listen to the radio or tuner when they want to listen to music. Now people worry about DACs, resolutions, clocking and jitter corrections, dynamic range etc, etc ,etc. What a crazy world. Wake up!!!!!
The people who used to pop a record or a cassette back then are now listening to streaming from their phones (and most probably not watching this kind of videos). 😉 Those who now worry about DACs and resolution were worrying also back then about amplifiers, phono amps, cartridges, tape heads etc. So no waking up needed because these are two different categories of people with completely different ways of listening to music. 😏
@@artyfhartie2269 not necessarily. As long as you care about the way the music sounds you can find enjoyment without brackeing the bank. A nice a satisfying sounding hi-fi doesn't necessarily have to be the most expensive out there. But again, if you care about the music and not the sound as a technical thing or make a fetish out of the hi-fi system it self. As there are indeed people who listen to their systems and not to the music.
@@AlexandruBurda I think you are right. People will always be drawn towards new tech. I have heard many expensive gear and bought some too which I stupidly sold years ago but for the money the vintage stuff I have now is so satisfying. I love records, tapes, cds from analogue source AAD as well. Streaming devices, external DACs are not for me. Radio stations broadcasting in FM played on vintage Luxman tuners for example are beautiful. Cheap too. I love big fat vintage Klipsch and JBL speakers made in the US.
Gain Staging; One of the most misunderstood elements in all of audio. Get an affordable scope, and execute the gain staging properly... then, you know for sure.
I can't believe how lucky I am to have had my question answered! Thanks so much for clarifying!
Hey Luke. I'm in SA too. Which DAC are you using? I need advice and where to buy. Thanks.
@@andreasmaximus6116 Amazon ships to SA and they deliver straight to you. I'm from Cape Town for reference
@@arrkyna Thanks, I'm aware of that, but I prefer to see and handle the product and hopefully have a demo before purchasing. Also, if I order from Amazon the government adds a huge import duty!
You guys stay SAFE OVER THERE! Keep listening !
Not all analog pats are optimal when run at 100% and sound better when the volume is dialed back a bit from max.
Thank you for answering this question. I was also looking for an answer to it. I am glad to have a confirmation of my settings choices. 👍🙂
Thanks Paul.....I raised streaming level to full and controlled the volume with my amp.....sounded MUCH better........thanks so much Paul.
That's a thing a HATE with many of todays recordings. They have pumped up the volume so extreme so if you've played Roger Waters - Amused To Death and have the volume on the same level it's almost so get your drivers in your speaker toasted when your newly bought and recorded CD starts.
Semester at Sea is sponsored by Colorado State University and still is around. I was on the Spring 1969 semester. One of the best college experiences ever. Highly recommended.
I was a bit taken aback by the concept. Does it have any affiliation with the religious group that lives at sea? I sure hope not.
@@jamesrobinson9176 It is a fully accredited liberal arts college. My semester left LA and head west for the next 4 months until we landed in NYC and drove home from there, completing a circumnavigating of the globe.
Is it bad to go buy clipping levels? And run the volume control up Front?
Thanks for explaining!
A good idea not mentioned is to level match them so that when you select various inputs the overall volume does not change from one input to the next.
What's that mean? My CD player, tape deck & especially turntable doesn't have their own volume settings. Volume levels are also different between some recordings.
@@jesusgavemeaids
AVRs and preamps often have separate level adjustments for their various inputs, but often the output from the turntable’s cartridge is so low that there’s not enough adjustment to cover the difference, so you have to volume up for vinyl and volume way back down for everything else.
Thank you so much for all the information you put out, the wife and I appreciate it and will hopefully visit soon
Look for unity gain settings, if possible.
I generally have my pre-amp level at about 1 o'clock and other levels adjusted accordingly
This is what I was looking for, my DAC has a remote with volume control SMSL SU8S to be precise. NAD 165BEE Pre amp is a one with volume control too but no remote, i had kept pre amp at 50% and controlling volume on DAC.
Power amplifier has no volume, should I do what you suggest? Max out DAC volume?
Technically speaking yes. The NAD volume control will give beter performance. However if you like or insist on using the remote you'll want to use the volume on the DAC as high as you prefer to listen to music. Max out the DAC and then slowly adjust the preamp volume to the maximum you would ever want to hear for sustained periods. That becomes the new max volume and allows the DAC to operate with minimal degradation because you are using the upper range of the volume control.
@@Bezerker1181 thanks buddy. Surely will try this out.
I need to use my DAC for attenuation because my amp blasts at two notches from infinity already and it has channel imbalance at low level (one notch :p)
Would attenuators work to reduce the gain between a preamp and a power amp? I am using a Topping D10s DAC (no volume control) and a xduoo MT-602 tube preamp into a Hafler DH-200 power amp (also no volume control). So the 602 is the volume knob, but it has a high output level noted by reviewers, so the system gets too loud when I turn the knob up past 8 o'clock. Wondering if line-level attenuators that reduce the signal by 12 dB would allow me to get the 602 knob up to half or two-thirds, as Paul suggests. Does anyone have experience with this?
I do this with my sources. You can get some very pure attenuation for $50 using something like a Schiit SYS or JDS OL Switcher. I have a JDS after my DAC because it runs much louder than my phono stage.
Thanks for pointing out those devices. Very good ideas and variable. Does it say how much attenuation in dB the JDS can do?
@@bluesman608 It's just a simple Alps 10k potentiometer (same as the Schiit SYS), and it only acts like a volume knob you can put in-line between sources and level match by ear. I have one of each in my system and I believe they provide perfectly transparent passive attenuation. They aren't going to give buttery smooth and precise volume control like an Alps Blue Velvet, but it should get the job done to level-match your sources.
How to set levels in hifi
Him : Leaning on shelves
Me : ah that's how
Hi Paul, I am using a DAC with a lossless volume control, and I use my preamp for volume control.... I would imagine based on your video here that it would not matter whether I have the DAC set to loud or low volume in this case since it features a lossless volume control, am I correct? Thanks...
Technically, yes, but since every preamp sound different depending on where its volume control is, it probably pays to set the DAC to where your preamp's control is at a comfortable level about 12 noon when playing at reasonable volume levels.
Fun Fact about the Paradise that is Cape Town:
The city in Dredd is Cape Town unedited aside from adding in the mega-towers. Everything else - all that nastiness is filmed on location, and left as is.
Thank you! What about the volume in the DSP of your software? I use Roon and I use this volume control. Does software controlled volume controls introduce a degradation of sound?
Roon has pretty decent volume control for software based systems. Still, it sounds better when fixed at max. That said, if I was stuck using Roon for volume control, I would not be unhappy.
Many people will claim that volume is best done inside the DAC chip itself - and this is in my experience better than using Roon, but it is very dependent on the implementation. My DAC chip only adjusts in the top 10% of it's range, and the output is then attenuated in 10% steps through a series of relays.
My signal path is HQPlayer set at -9dB, HQPlayer NAA on a Sonore Optical Rendu, into a Matrix Audio Element-X, then the power amp. I use Roon only to handle play back (it is an excellent player), I use none of the dsp etc. HQPlayer is set at -9 because I get some clipping at -6dB.
Why does the last volume level (generally the preamp) have to be around 50% of the way up? The way my system is now, I can't turn my pre up past 25%... It's too loud.
Am I losing quality by not having my pre around 50% on the volume level? Should I lower my DAC volume to achieve that on my pre? What do I gain by doing that?
@Douglas Blake how would I notice distortion? I don't think I ever played my system loud enough to know what that would sound like.. what should I be listening for?
@@shawnmathew825 Clipping (of the type talked about here) will be audible mostly in the upper midrange as distortion. Listen to male tenors (not singing in falsetto) or female mezzo-sopranos. It is also often audible in cymbal rides, and snare drums. It is also very audible, though hard to detect until you hear it, on Stratocaster guitars running a distortion pedal.
The song I use the most for listening for it is Pink Floyd's Atom Heart Mother. From about 6 or 8 minutes in, there is a mixed chorus where the male voices start low and crescendo over the female voices. You will really hear clipping distortion in this track, and it will move you emotionally even if it not your style of music. When clipping is there, the voices get muddied and loose their emotional impact (the male singers in particular really dig deep go go all in). The distortion will sound almost like a light fuzz, not quite a hiss.
Vocalists like Tori Amos will seem constrained when clipping, but you pretty much have to know how much detail and resonance she has in her voice to know what you are missing. Before and after listening to one of her simple tracks (Bells for Her is a good one) will not only test the limits of how revealing your system is, but really reveal the richness of her voice when she is almost acapella.
Thanks for the help!!!
So then why no turntables w/volume control, or optical disc players, or even tape decks for that matter?
Some tape decks have level controls.
@Douglas Blake The Audio Research SP-3A didn't. I can't recall any that did.
Nice
The Rob story is priceless, thanks Paul ;-))
Nice Kennels 😜
1:47
My dragonfly doesn't bitstrip, I think...
Fast forward to 1:45 Click here 1:45
@1:50 -- Relevant dialog begins.
... and ends at 4:42
I set my amp gains so my pre=max doesn't distort the system.
People used to pop a record on the turntable or a cassette in a cassette player or listen to the radio or tuner when they want to listen to music. Now people worry about DACs, resolutions, clocking and jitter corrections, dynamic range etc, etc ,etc. What a crazy world. Wake up!!!!!
The people who used to pop a record or a cassette back then are now listening to streaming from their phones (and most probably not watching this kind of videos). 😉
Those who now worry about DACs and resolution were worrying also back then about amplifiers, phono amps, cartridges, tape heads etc.
So no waking up needed because these are two different categories of people with completely different ways of listening to music. 😏
@@AlexandruBurda A fool and his or her money are easily parted.
@@artyfhartie2269 not necessarily. As long as you care about the way the music sounds you can find enjoyment without brackeing the bank. A nice a satisfying sounding hi-fi doesn't necessarily have to be the most expensive out there. But again, if you care about the music and not the sound as a technical thing or make a fetish out of the hi-fi system it self. As there are indeed people who listen to their systems and not to the music.
@@AlexandruBurda I think you are right. People will always be drawn towards new tech. I have heard many expensive gear and bought some too which I stupidly sold years ago but for the money the vintage stuff I have now is so satisfying. I love records, tapes, cds from analogue source AAD as well. Streaming devices, external DACs are not for me. Radio stations broadcasting in FM played on vintage Luxman tuners for example are beautiful. Cheap too. I love big fat vintage Klipsch and JBL speakers made in the US.
Murray Goldberg said it best
‘People are morons’
Simple answer, between 50 and 75 percent.
Gain Staging;
One of the most misunderstood elements in all of audio.
Get an affordable scope, and execute the gain staging properly... then, you know for sure.
Yikes! CNN? You should edit that out! That's a major stinker on your label!
CNN is reporting that the ship's captain cut power after receiving dog whistles from President Trump, based on orders from Putin.
@@NoEgg4u $250 million dollars later- FBI: Russian Collusion didn't happen and the participants of a fake dossier are currently being indicted!
@@jackjones7665 CNN is reporting that President Trump ordered the fake dossier, based on orders from Putin.
@@NoEgg4u CNN= Concocted News Network
keep your filthy politics of this channel.