In 1979 I bought a Hitachi receiver rated at 50wpc. It weighs 23+ pounds. This when most other 50wpc receivers were 35+ pounds. It still runs exceptionally cool and is barely warm after 8 hours of use. Cooler running means potentially longer life. I get it.
Recently bought a Crown Class D Pro audio, I was blown away with the sound quality, at a small fraction of cost of Class A /AB. I predict the future belonged to Class D amp as more regulation imposed to increase electrical appliance efficiency.
I just purchased the Stellar M1200 mono blocks to replace my much loved Parasound A21 amplifier. After about a 100 hour burn in, this amplifier has come alive in its bass and midrange. I’m impressed! It’s definitely not the ole class D of yesteryear. Note: I only replaced my Parasound amplifier because my wife doesn’t like my equipment being on display, she wants to hide it behind plantation shutters, the Parasound wouldn’t fit. Long story, so there.
I didn't believe it at first how could something that weighs so little sound so good? Installed a Stellar S300 for the front left and right channels of my A/V system, one of the best upgrades ever! Even before it was fully broke in it was miles ahead of the class A/B amps in my TOLT A/V receiver. It was like the fog lifted from my system....great job PS Audio!
Electronics has improved to do more while using less power and weighing less. This is true for every sort of electronics incl. TVs, smart phones, computers and amps. Class D used to be LoFi but nowadays can give you more power and dynamics for less money and weight.
I have no doubt that the 1200w wonder is good. But I like the sound of my 110w triode OTL amps made with tubes from Russian MIGs. Sounds great. Looks even better. I can barely lift it, and it needs to be fed hundreds of $ in tubes every 2-3 years. They can bury them with me as everyone remaining will be listening to MP3 on their Class D. All good.
I replaced my 28kg receiver with a 1kg class D. Sounds great. I was even expecting to hear "grainy treble" etc but there wasn't any "sound" to it. Now I get to hear all the differences in the speakers or, the recordings.
I owned a Devialet 400 system. AHD, based on a Quad spec iiirc? 10W A and amplified by D. Very interesting setup, sounded very good. Support by Devialet was crap after a great person left, so sold the system end of last year.
Paul said that the class D does not have a transformer when it does, it is just very small because as the input frequency goes up as it does on a switching supply the transformer gets much smaller but still delivers a lot of power. Bob Carver's Sunfire amplifiers used a switching supply that also tracked the input signal keeping the rail voltage only 6 volts above what is needed at that instant in time which made his class A-B amplifiers not only nearly as efficient as class D but almost as light and as powerful as they can double the power when you half the impedance down to 2 ohms and were stable at 1 ohm or less. How many class D can claim that.
My issue with Class D isn’t the topology. I just take issue where many companies are charging $2-3-4-5K for Class D amps where in those price classes there are better Class A, AB, etc.
Don't agree I had during my 58 years of Audio journey Amps A and Amps A/D and tubes and changed recently to Amp D and never look back .Were you find an amp that has Dac,Bluetooth,150w on 8 and 4 ohms, roon ready and MDC module to upgrate to BluOs which is great as technology moves fast and all that for 1650 Dollar.Sounds great and preforms effortless ,tight Bass and controls the speaker in every way. Its a future orientated product beside that its over 90% and runs efficient and runs cool. GOOD NEWS MORE MODULES ON THE WAY
I will have to listen to some of the newer class-D amplifiers. I was disappointed by my experience with an older one and had not realized how much they have improved.
Those ICE modules are so simple, it takes so very little to build a small enclosure with switches/inputs/LED and have yourself a decent DIY amp! I'm well aware PS Audio takes it to a diff level via the pre-amp design which certainly justifies them to charge what they do. But for a po-boy audiophile just getting started, just build the thing yourself and spend the extra cash on a good brand pre-amp & other seperates!
Dear Paul, I watch each and every of your Videos. I would love to ask you my question, too. In audio terms: WHAT IS WARMTH? What in my gear causes it ? Edit: I am talking about a warm sound. What in the gear makes it warm sounding?
Part of the energy of the electrical current going through your gear gets thermally dissipated. This causes WARMTH. Unless it's too much, in which case it causes HEAT-or maybe even FIRE.
@@Geerladenlad Thank you! Furthermore, I wonder why some solid state amps or even class-D amps sound warm and some do not. What is it that makes this difference?
AGD Audion monoblocks with Gallium Nitride Mosfet power "tubes" only weighs 6.5 lbs. Newer tech --- maybe the next best breakthrough in amp design. 85 watts into 8 ohms and 170 into 4ohms. Paul, we don't need back breakers especially as we get into our 60s or 70s. Are we entering the golden age of Hi-End Audio?
It's nice making the best eh? Gotta love that premium which you just know you can add and still blow the competition out of the water. May your company go from strength to strength man.
Weight is my main reason for going Class D with my smaller Pro Audio rig. 8x500W in a 6U case weighs in at a little under 40lbs. Sure, it won't hold a candle to a BHK, but it does sound good and doesn't break my back.
Interesting, then, to think of how much studio work back in the day, including what was used in production of many classic LP recordings that audiophiles love, was done with a rack-stack of Crown D150 and D300 amps powering the operation. They were all over the place in NY, Nashville, and in SoCal studios when I was first working down there. Were they class D at some stage and AB/B elsewhere?
@@Snook_ The specs are the specs-and when plenty of modern “audiophile” gear still can’t match them, what happens to your analogy? Functionally flat to DC on the bottom end, for example.
@@ReflectedMiles your concept goes out the window when you can get the same specs foe 1/5th the price between brands. Specs don’t mean much price does if specs are the “same” technically speaking for zoomers
@@Snook_ But they aren’t the same in reality. The reason the Crowns were everywhere was both from their specs and their ability to put up with abuse day-in and day-out. Besides, most audiophile amps are wildly more expensive without the commensurate reliability. Nobody would say that the Apollo computers exceeded any typical modern computer specs or were more reliable.
Class D, is the way it's going, and here's why, because the process of switching, or PCM, will get better and better over time, as will the quality of the parts to make that happen, is what I see. Listen to a early class D, like from 1989, and then listen to some m700's, and you'll fully understand. Have an amazing day everyone!
Well executed Class D is the best thing to happen to car audio. The amps run cool and are compact, and OEM audio systems often boast adequate power for the job and sound almost halfway decent. Of course people go off the deep end with high powered custom DIY systems, but the average Joe can actually have decent OEM audio. This is a sweet relief from decades of awful OEM car audio systems. Older audio enthusiasts are ingrained to think that a quality amp has to weigh 100 pounds. This is out of date thinking. I love Class A/B and own one, but have to concede Class D does not suck anymore.
Some people also like the sound of whatever the older gear was doing. Even if it is not as accurate due to colourations or distortion (though they may claim it sounds like "real" music etc). I like the no colouration approach for amplifiers. That way you can use preamps or source or software means to colour the sound
Do note you can use transformer to power Class D amp and you can use SMPS to power an AB class amp. Properly designed SMPS is of course the superior choice
Class D amplifier a probably have the same situation as red cars. Plenty of studies say that red cars don't get any more speeding tickets that cars of other colors. But if someone who likes to drive above the speed limit got a ticket while driving a red car, he would blame the ticket on the color. So if we take Paul's word that the Class D stellar is 90% as good as a BHK amp, as soon as the owner discovers something in the missing 10% that's in the area that Class D amps are known to have issues, he/she will think that the flaw is there pretty much all the time.
Hi Paul again you answer a question is the glass half-full or half-empty as always you remind me of my grandfather with Alzheimer's thanks Paul and have a great day🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh for $400 or $4,000 and you can have that experience for a third the price! 400 versus 4,000 seems like a very steep I don't know . Makes a difference to most.
Yeah, 400$ is actually the real cost how much a quality Class-D NCore module cost that actually outclasses anything that’s out there! But sure, you can put the 4k pricetag on it as well ;)
but class-ab can be small and yet powerful aswell with very little heatsinking, in bob carvers sunfire subwoofer amps he varies the rail voltages acording to the music signal and makes the class-ab stage allways run so theres not much voltage drop across.
Yes they could deliver 2700 watts RMS for peak demands due to his "Tracking Down Converter power supply , which also made all of his Sunfire amplifiers light and efficient.
@@FooBar89 actually it was class AB amplification ,what they have in common with class D is in the switching power supplies and his designs tracked and modulated the rail voltages according to demand.
its not class-d class-d switches a pwm and lowpass filter it, this is using two tracking buck regulators to drive a class-ab amp. Class-H comes very close, but with regulating the rails instead of switching between different ones.
but the final stage before the speaker is a plain old class-ab stage. the regulators just keep the rail voltage above the transistor dropout voltage at any amplification. the buck regulators regulate down to 2..3V above the required amplification. when you put out 5A on the amp at 40V on the output (8ohms), the trackers will feed the class-ab with like 42V so theres only a 2V drop across the transistor. 2V x 5A is just 10W heat dissipation. in a ordinary amp with lets say full +-90V rails there would be a 50V drop across the output transistors (at the same output as above)...5A x 50V ... go figure how big your heatsink needs to be to dissipate 250W
Its hard to compare car audio to home audio. The amount of space inside a car is much smaller than even the smallest listening room in a home. You're also sitting inches away from the speakers. In some respects, a car system is more like wearing headphones.
I'm not sure if this is entirely true? I purchased a New Sony class D reciver in the early 90s "Pro Logic" I now have a soon to be replaced 2010 Sony AVR that's 7.1 and Class D also, the newer Sony weighs half what the 90s version did! They have similar output? The difference I can see is the size of the transformer in the old one was massive!
in short: efficiency and power supply. high efficiency switching power supply can be so small compared to the huge and heavy wire wound that is usually used. the added efficiency do not need heavy cooling fins/heat sinks. no heavy metals or toroidal power supply equals small and light.
He sold many amplifier models with a T (which stood for transfer function) after the model number that sound very close for mass production to some of the great tube amps. He also used state of the art power supply designs that made them light and powerful.
How much of a trained ear do you have to have to tell a well made class ab from a well made class d? Would someone like me who doesn’t know jack about audio really be able to tell the difference?
in time your ear will get trained. you'll need to listen to a lot of different amplifiers though. The biggest difference will become apparent, as paul mentioned, when listing to floor standers in a large room, where your driving real power and the speaker is presenting a very real changing load to the amp. small amplifiers loose control very quickly
@@jackheinemann1994 That seems to be to do with power output and load capability, not size. And furthermore, nothing to do with the question of whether you can tell the difference between class AB or D. I'd think most people would not be able to tell a difference between the technology assuming the amplifiers are made to be neutral and not "tuned" to have a certain sound.
I never heard PS audio gear but Paul's posts give me something to think about. Many years ago I bought a pair of class D momo amps. I did not like them. Everything sounded very dry. I bought a McIntosh MC352 amp years ago off of ebay. Still have it and sounds pretty good to me. I'm not thinking about selling it but who knows. I might take a crack and buy the PS 700 amps. $3,000.00 is a very good price for a pair of mono amps IF!!!! they sound as good as or better than my MC 352 amps.
I just purchase a new car stereo it weights nothing I check it up the datsheet of the power transistor and it says it doesnt need any capacitors, and i was suprised it is class a b instead of class d, its like a tripath copycat design, and it has very microscopic electronics, even the leds are so tinny, and the sound is very good.
Check out Technics SU-G30 and SE-R1, amazing amplifiers, you'll have to spend some time online to understand the technology behind, Technics doesn't explain well on their website. In short it's one Gan-Fet device per channel doing both push and pull (class a anyone?) that switches in the mega Hertz range, that is million times per second. Both amps are purely digital and convert all incoming signals to dsd which is sent directly to the output stage without prior conversion to analog. The dac chip inside is used solely for converting to dsd. Some might not like the Technics sound signature, but they are very, very good amplifiers.
Tubes seem too finicky and expensive and class D is the only amp that has ever failed on me (active subwoofer) and many manufacturers of active speakers offer a shorter warranty on the amp than they do for the rest of the speaker. Class A/B all the way for me.
I find it hard to believe that PS Audio uses a pre-built ICE module in their amplifiers instead of building their own quality amp circuit. Class D is for car audio. We replace a lot of those ICE modules in cheap guitar amplifiers. Electronics engineer with 40 years experience.
As the saying goes why reinvent the wheel , instead just make improvements . Personally I doubt they have the skill for a rather small company to design a good class D amp from scratch.
Don't agree Audiophiles for nearly 60 years had many well know amps all sorts during my journey finally switch to a NAD c-388 very happy with it drives my speaker effortless and can be upgraded by module that what I call progress and NAD is a company that has enough experience in that regards
Class D offers 90% of what Class AB offers Paul? That's why we audiophiles are constantly looking for the holy grail of sound. A 10% difference is huge and very noticeable. Just got rid of my relatively Class D Amp. Replaced with Class AB. Not even close. Class D is not musical, sounds hollow to my ears
Depending what you checked out every company has its on design and Im very happy with my NAD C-388 and been an Audiophile for nearly 60 years I had quit a few well know amps A ,A/B and tubes during my journey but was blown away with this product of NAD. A forward looking product which can be upgraded with module to your choosing.
I think PS Audio uses - ICE modules, icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/ and similar competitive tech is Hypex www.hypex.nl/p/technology/ , purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/eval2/ Bruno Putzeys is one of the most famous Class-D amplifier designers who helped to invent the above core technologies
it is not difficult and understand it. old transformers provide clean and noise free power but are large and weigh a lot. many newer amplifiers use switching power supply which weighs much less but has more noise but is used a lot in newer PA. amplifiers. but in general when an amplifier weighs very little it is often less good quality
It doesn't work like that. The reason class d weighs less has to do with efficiency and design. A transistor is a switch. Switches like to be on or off. What happens with class a or ab, is the transistor that amplifies the signal is run somewhere in between on or off almost 100% of the time. This generates a great deal of heat, so things have to be built to take that type of stress. Class D amps work differently. The amp taps the analog signal coming from the preamp and converts it to digital. That digital signal is then used to turn the transistors off and on really fast. They never operate in between, just on or off. There's almost no hear generated. The HCA-2 amp that Paul mentions in the video runs cooler than the matching preamp (PCA-2). "but in general when an amplifier weighs very little it is often less good quality" Making a class D amp heavier wouldn't give you better sound, or build quality. There's just no reason for it to be heavy.
No. Transformer would not filter any noise from mains input, a good SMPS would. SMPS can be less noisy than transformer, if designed properly. And it will hold its output voltage no matter the load, so it can even contribute to better dynamics.
@@solarfall2728 Class D does NOT convert analog signal to digital, it's analog all the way. The fact that it gets PWM/PDM modulated doesn't mean it's digital. Class D IS NOT digital.
@@tomkocur Calm down. I know you want to be right. While there's no requirement that a class d amp convert the signal to digital, the ones of the context of this discussion do. The ice modules, and most of the other popular ones for audio, tap into the analog signal, convert it to digital, and use that digital signal to turn the transistors on and off. I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but everyone knows the signal you hear coming out of a class d amp never gets concerted to digital. The digital is only used in the control circuit. I can provide references if you like.
"Class D amps work differently. The amp taps the analog signal coming from the preamp and converts it to digital." You were talking about Class D in general, I don't see ICE mentioned anywhere in this discussion. But go ahead, provide the references please. I don't see ICE mentioning "digital" anywhere and I don't see any AD conversion in the functional block of TPA31xx, which is a pretty popular Class D amplifier IC.
And if money is tight you can get the Wharfedale Pro mp2800 2800 watts into 2 channels £500 new now that would be a good head to head with the 300 somebody should do it lol
Class D is for deaf people. I remember getting my first D:s in my PA and we spent a day looking for the problem because we could not understand that the amount of power it was supposed to put out was nowhere to be found. Back to Crown Macro-Techs.
In 1979 I bought a Hitachi receiver rated at 50wpc. It weighs 23+ pounds. This when most other 50wpc receivers were 35+ pounds. It still runs exceptionally cool and is barely warm after 8 hours of use. Cooler running means potentially longer life. I get it.
Recently bought a Crown Class D Pro audio, I was blown away with the sound quality, at a small fraction of cost of Class A /AB. I predict the future belonged to Class D amp as more regulation imposed to increase electrical appliance efficiency.
You were right the third time, lol. It's the name of a fish.
Being from Fla., (Miami) I didn’t think anyone would have a problem pronouncing Pom-Pa-No. but Paul’s an expert on stereo equipment.
@@M0D60 when I was younger, I used to call it pom-PA-no. Only until last year did I realize it was POM-pa-no.
Tampa boy over here
I've got the S300, and it sounds great! Tons of power to blow me out of the room.
Great vid.
I just purchased the Stellar M1200 mono blocks to replace my much loved Parasound A21 amplifier. After about a 100 hour burn in, this amplifier has come alive in its bass and midrange. I’m impressed! It’s definitely not the ole class D of yesteryear. Note: I only replaced my Parasound amplifier because my wife doesn’t like my equipment being on display, she wants to hide it behind plantation shutters, the Parasound wouldn’t fit. Long story, so there.
@3:38 WHEN PAUL LIFTS THE AM MODULE, A SCREW GOES TING AND THEN THUD AS IT HITS THE FLOOR LOL!.
The Genie of the Lamp principle: "Phenomenal cosmic power! Itty-bitty living space." -- Robin Williams and/or Disney screenwriters (1992).
I didn't believe it at first how could something that weighs so little sound so good? Installed a Stellar S300 for the front left and right channels of my A/V system, one of the best upgrades ever! Even before it was fully broke in it was miles ahead of the class A/B amps in my TOLT A/V receiver. It was like the fog lifted from my system....great job PS Audio!
Thanks!
So you are watching movies through S300 as 2 channel or 2.1?
Electronics has improved to do more while using less power and weighing less. This is true for every sort of electronics incl. TVs, smart phones, computers and amps. Class D used to be LoFi but nowadays can give you more power and dynamics for less money and weight.
I have no doubt that the 1200w wonder is good. But I like the sound of my 110w triode OTL amps made with tubes from Russian MIGs. Sounds great. Looks even better. I can barely lift it, and it needs to be fed hundreds of $ in tubes every 2-3 years. They can bury them with me as everyone remaining will be listening to MP3 on their Class D. All good.
I replaced my 28kg receiver with a 1kg class D. Sounds great. I was even expecting to hear "grainy treble" etc but there wasn't any "sound" to it. Now I get to hear all the differences in the speakers or, the recordings.
I owned a Devialet 400 system. AHD, based on a Quad spec iiirc? 10W A and amplified by D.
Very interesting setup, sounded very good. Support by Devialet was crap after a great person left, so sold the system end of last year.
Paul said that the class D does not have a transformer when it does, it is just very small because as the input frequency goes up as it does on a switching supply the transformer gets much smaller but still delivers a lot of power. Bob Carver's Sunfire amplifiers used a switching supply that also tracked the input signal keeping the rail voltage only 6 volts above what is needed at that instant in time which made his class A-B amplifiers not only nearly as efficient as class D but almost as light and as powerful as they can double the power when you half the impedance down to 2 ohms and were stable at 1 ohm or less. How many class D can claim that.
My issue with Class D isn’t the topology. I just take issue where many companies are charging $2-3-4-5K for Class D amps where in those price classes there are better Class A, AB, etc.
Well if that an expensive class D sounds better than cheap class AB, why not?
Stellar S300 class D ain’t expensive. With correct speaker synergy, they blossom
Better look up the Behringer A800. It’s a boss.
Don't agree I had during my 58 years of Audio journey Amps A and Amps A/D and tubes and changed recently to Amp D and never look back .Were you find an amp that has Dac,Bluetooth,150w on 8 and 4 ohms, roon ready and MDC module to upgrate to BluOs which is great as technology moves fast and all that for 1650 Dollar.Sounds great and preforms effortless ,tight Bass and controls the speaker in every way. Its a future orientated product beside that its over 90% and runs efficient and runs cool. GOOD NEWS MORE MODULES ON THE WAY
@@privacyhelp Because anyone in the know aint paying a 200000x markup
I will have to listen to some of the newer class-D amplifiers. I was disappointed by my experience with an older one and had not realized how much they have improved.
Those ICE modules are so simple, it takes so very little to build a small enclosure with switches/inputs/LED and have yourself a decent DIY amp! I'm well aware PS Audio takes it to a diff level via the pre-amp design which certainly justifies them to charge what they do. But for a po-boy audiophile just getting started, just build the thing yourself and spend the extra cash on a good brand pre-amp & other seperates!
Do you know where to pick up the ICE modules?
@@paulgyro parts express
@@paulgyro parts express sells them, and if you google enclosure kits for the ICE modules youll find them too, with binding posts and all!
@@AllboroLCD nice, I'm going to look into it! An old NAD of mine is dieing so it's recap or buy new. Seriously considering building an ICE based DIY.
@@paulgyro just take your time and take safety precautions, some amps are easier to re-cap than others!
I have a class D amp designed by John Ulrich back in the day and it weights 54 lbs!
Dear Paul, I watch each and every of your Videos. I would love to ask you my question, too. In audio terms: WHAT IS WARMTH? What in my gear causes it ? Edit: I am talking about a warm sound. What in the gear makes it warm sounding?
Part of the energy of the electrical current going through your gear gets thermally dissipated. This causes WARMTH. Unless it's too much, in which case it causes HEAT-or maybe even FIRE.
@@fsmoura I mean a warm sound
@@DigitalPhilosophers Vacuum tubes.
On their big expensive monoblock amplifier they put vacuum tubes on the input stage.
@@Geerladenlad Thank you! Furthermore, I wonder why some solid state amps or even class-D amps sound warm and some do not. What is it that makes this difference?
@@DigitalPhilosophers Look into current source vs voltage source.
Current sources have a higher output impedance can produce a warmer sound.
AGD Audion monoblocks with Gallium Nitride Mosfet power "tubes" only weighs 6.5 lbs. Newer tech --- maybe the next best breakthrough in amp design. 85 watts into 8 ohms and 170 into 4ohms. Paul, we don't need back breakers especially as we get into our 60s or 70s. Are we entering the golden age of Hi-End Audio?
It's nice making the best eh? Gotta love that premium which you just know you can add and still blow the competition out of the water. May your company go from strength to strength man.
I thought Hegel had the best AB amp technology these days.
Weight is my main reason for going Class D with my smaller Pro Audio rig. 8x500W in a 6U case weighs in at a little under 40lbs. Sure, it won't hold a candle to a BHK, but it does sound good and doesn't break my back.
Interestingly engineered shelf under that Tabletop!
Interesting, then, to think of how much studio work back in the day, including what was used in production of many classic LP recordings that audiophiles love, was done with a rack-stack of Crown D150 and D300 amps powering the operation. They were all over the place in NY, Nashville, and in SoCal studios when I was first working down there. Were they class D at some stage and AB/B elsewhere?
Thats like speculating 'The computer that got man to the moon back then was so advanced it must be the best ever made'... Well you see where im going.
@@Snook_ The specs are the specs-and when plenty of modern “audiophile” gear still can’t match them, what happens to your analogy? Functionally flat to DC on the bottom end, for example.
@@ReflectedMiles your concept goes out the window when you can get the same specs foe 1/5th the price between brands. Specs don’t mean much price does if specs are the “same” technically speaking for zoomers
@@Snook_ But they aren’t the same in reality. The reason the Crowns were everywhere was both from their specs and their ability to put up with abuse day-in and day-out. Besides, most audiophile amps are wildly more expensive without the commensurate reliability. Nobody would say that the Apollo computers exceeded any typical modern computer specs or were more reliable.
Class D, is the way it's going, and here's why, because the process of switching, or PCM, will get better and better over time, as will the quality of the parts to make that happen, is what I see. Listen to a early class D, like from 1989, and then listen to some m700's, and you'll fully understand. Have an amazing day everyone!
Not PCM (Pulse-Code Modulation), but PWM - Pulse Width Modulation. 1:50
Well executed Class D is the best thing to happen to car audio. The amps run cool and are compact, and OEM audio systems often boast adequate power for the job and sound almost halfway decent. Of course people go off the deep end with high powered custom DIY systems, but the average Joe can actually have decent OEM audio. This is a sweet relief from decades of awful OEM car audio systems.
Older audio enthusiasts are ingrained to think that a quality amp has to weigh 100 pounds. This is out of date thinking. I love Class A/B and own one, but have to concede Class D does not suck anymore.
Some people also like the sound of whatever the older gear was doing. Even if it is not as accurate due to colourations or distortion (though they may claim it sounds like "real" music etc). I like the no colouration approach for amplifiers. That way you can use preamps or source or software means to colour the sound
Do note you can use transformer to power Class D amp and you can use SMPS to power an AB class amp.
Properly designed SMPS is of course the superior choice
Class D amplifier a probably have the same situation as red cars. Plenty of studies say that red cars don't get any more speeding tickets that cars of other colors. But if someone who likes to drive above the speed limit got a ticket while driving a red car, he would blame the ticket on the color. So if we take Paul's word that the Class D stellar is 90% as good as a BHK amp, as soon as the owner discovers something in the missing 10% that's in the area that Class D amps are known to have issues, he/she will think that the flaw is there pretty much all the time.
Hi Paul again you answer a question is the glass half-full or half-empty as always you remind me of my grandfather with Alzheimer's thanks Paul and have a great day🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh for $400 or $4,000 and you can have that experience for a third the price! 400 versus 4,000 seems like a very steep I don't know . Makes a difference to most.
Yeah, 400$ is actually the real cost how much a quality Class-D NCore module cost that actually outclasses anything that’s out there! But sure, you can put the 4k pricetag on it as well ;)
I tried the m700 stack and returned it. Got a Parasound A21+ and happy with it
Aw I wish it was 1200W for $400
They r if u do it yourself.
My QSC 1000 watt (@ 4ohms) amps weigh 27lbs each.
"400... or 4.000? Meh, whatever it costs..."
but class-ab can be small and yet powerful aswell with very little heatsinking, in bob carvers sunfire subwoofer amps he varies the rail voltages acording to the music signal and makes the class-ab stage allways run so theres not much voltage drop across.
Yes they could deliver 2700 watts RMS for peak demands due to his "Tracking Down Converter power supply , which also made all of his Sunfire amplifiers light and efficient.
@@FooBar89 actually it was class AB amplification ,what they have in common with class D is in the switching power supplies and his designs tracked and modulated the rail voltages according to demand.
its not class-d class-d switches a pwm and lowpass filter it, this is using two tracking buck regulators to drive a class-ab amp.
Class-H comes very close, but with regulating the rails instead of switching between different ones.
but the final stage before the speaker is a plain old class-ab stage. the regulators just keep the rail voltage above the transistor dropout voltage at any amplification.
the buck regulators regulate down to 2..3V above the required amplification. when you put out 5A on the amp at 40V on the output (8ohms), the trackers will feed the class-ab with like 42V so theres only a 2V drop across the transistor. 2V x 5A is just 10W heat dissipation. in a ordinary amp with lets say full +-90V rails there would be a 50V drop across the output transistors (at the same output as above)...5A x 50V ... go figure how big your heatsink needs to be to dissipate 250W
Its hard to compare car audio to home audio. The amount of space inside a car is much smaller than even the smallest listening room in a home. You're also sitting inches away from the speakers. In some respects, a car system is more like wearing headphones.
What amp is the smaller board from?
I'm not sure if this is entirely true? I purchased a New Sony class D reciver in the early 90s "Pro Logic" I now have a soon to be replaced 2010 Sony AVR that's 7.1 and Class D also, the newer Sony weighs half what the 90s version did! They have similar output? The difference I can see is the size of the transformer in the old one was massive!
The amount of lead and copper in amps made from around 1985 to 1995 is outlandish.
in short: efficiency and power supply. high efficiency switching power supply can be so small compared to the huge and heavy wire wound that is usually used. the added efficiency do not need heavy cooling fins/heat sinks. no heavy metals or toroidal power supply equals small and light.
Great video Paul,
Some amps are only heavy because some people still associate weight with quality.
Anyone here remember those "old" class D PWM tube amps from 1966 that uses PL509 output tubes?🤔
Carver made a 10 pound ab amp in the 80s sounds great. 2.0t
He sold many amplifier models with a T (which stood for transfer function) after the model number that sound very close for mass production to some of the great tube amps. He also used state of the art power supply designs that made them light and powerful.
How much of a trained ear do you have to have to tell a well made class ab from a well made class d? Would someone like me who doesn’t know jack about audio really be able to tell the difference?
in time your ear will get trained. you'll need to listen to a lot of different amplifiers though. The biggest difference will become apparent, as paul mentioned, when listing to floor standers in a large room, where your driving real power and the speaker is presenting a very real changing load to the amp. small amplifiers loose control very quickly
@@jackheinemann1994 That seems to be to do with power output and load capability, not size. And furthermore, nothing to do with the question of whether you can tell the difference between class AB or D.
I'd think most people would not be able to tell a difference between the technology assuming the amplifiers are made to be neutral and not "tuned" to have a certain sound.
Not sure if you'll get the headroom and fast slew rate with a D
Thanks !
I never heard PS audio gear but Paul's posts give me something to think about. Many years ago I bought a pair of class D momo amps. I did not like them. Everything sounded very dry. I bought a McIntosh MC352 amp years ago off of ebay. Still have it and sounds pretty good to me. I'm not thinking about selling it but who knows. I might take a crack and buy the PS 700 amps.
$3,000.00 is a very good price for a pair of mono amps IF!!!! they sound as good as or better than my MC 352 amps.
If you live in the US give The Cable Company a call. They have PS Audio and will send you demos to try first. If you don't like them, don't buy them.
@@solarfall2728
Thank you. Not right now but I will contact them
I just purchase a new car stereo it weights nothing I check it up the datsheet of the power transistor and it says it doesnt need any capacitors, and i was suprised it is class a b instead of class d, its like a tripath copycat design, and it has very microscopic electronics, even the leds are so tinny, and the sound is very good.
If it's class AB, it can't be a Tripath copycat. Tripath is class D.
How is babby formed?
What happened to Class C amps? We seem to have jumped right over A/B to D.
They tend to have high distortion and are intended for RF applications.
Scott, class C is for your mama.
Class T is the best of the best and theres a lot of letters available from D to T
@@necrodh why would T be the best?
And there’s class H!
I wonder what GaN Class-D Amplifiers will bring in the far far future.
Is it just me or do gallium nitride semiconductor devices have their own "distinctive sound" whether used in class D or class AB amp topology?🤔
check out orchard audio and you will get an answer :D
@@19janiboy96 I will research both these things.
@@laurentzduba1298 ahhh....
Check out Technics SU-G30 and SE-R1, amazing amplifiers, you'll have to spend some time online to understand the technology behind, Technics doesn't explain well on their website. In short it's one Gan-Fet device per channel doing both push and pull (class a anyone?) that switches in the mega Hertz range, that is million times per second. Both amps are purely digital and convert all incoming signals to dsd which is sent directly to the output stage without prior conversion to analog. The dac chip inside is used solely for converting to dsd. Some might not like the Technics sound signature, but they are very, very good amplifiers.
Tubes seem too finicky and expensive and class D is the only amp that has ever failed on me (active subwoofer) and many manufacturers of active speakers offer a shorter warranty on the amp than they do for the rest of the speaker. Class A/B all the way for me.
Carver's new tube amplifiers come with a 5 ,10 and lifetime warranty depending on the model, and all have an estimated life of around 50 years.
Plenty of class AB amps with issues too. Decent ones may have the advantage of longer refinement time with build.
Kind of a cop out. Ignoring older receivers like the 23 ounce, Class AB, 100 wpc Sony receivers of the recent past doesn't really answer the question.
I find it hard to believe that PS Audio uses a pre-built ICE module in their amplifiers instead of building their own quality amp circuit. Class D is for car audio. We replace a lot of those ICE modules in cheap guitar amplifiers. Electronics engineer with 40 years experience.
As the saying goes why reinvent the wheel , instead just make improvements . Personally I doubt they have the skill for a rather small company to design a good class D amp from scratch.
Don't agree Audiophiles for nearly 60 years had many well know amps all sorts during my journey finally switch to a NAD c-388 very happy with it drives my speaker effortless and can be upgraded by module that what I call progress and NAD is a company that has enough experience in that regards
Cheap guitar amplifiers - there you go. It's cheap and people are thrashing it
Yes, I want a 10 thousand dollar toaster.
Hahaha, just look how many slices that bad boy can char!! 😂
Switching power supplies are the main reason for the reduced weight.
Heatsinks add the next amount I'd say
Class d is not for me....
Class D offers 90% of what Class AB offers Paul? That's why we audiophiles are constantly looking for the holy grail of sound. A 10% difference is huge and very noticeable. Just got rid of my relatively Class D Amp. Replaced with Class AB. Not even close. Class D is not musical, sounds hollow to my ears
That "hollow class D sound" - so true.
Depending what you checked out every company has its on design and Im very happy with my NAD C-388 and been an Audiophile for nearly 60 years I had quit a few well know amps A ,A/B and tubes during my journey but was blown away with this product of NAD. A forward looking product which can be upgraded with module to your choosing.
I think PS Audio uses - ICE modules, icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/
and similar competitive tech is Hypex www.hypex.nl/p/technology/ , purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/eval2/
Bruno Putzeys is one of the most famous Class-D amplifier designers who helped to invent the above core technologies
You can get the parts and build your own for a very reasonable price. If you can read and solder you can do it.
Sign me up for a couple $400 m-1200s!! 🙂
Great video, as always!
Maybe Class D.
Or class H
@@scottyo64 Yes class H is efficient as class D but is actually class AB in the amplifier section.
@@leekumiega9268 they just dont have the big transformer and weigh much less than class A/B, oh and take much less power and run cool
it is not difficult and understand it. old transformers provide clean and noise free power but are large and weigh a lot. many newer amplifiers use switching power supply which weighs much less but has more noise but is used a lot in newer PA. amplifiers. but in general when an amplifier weighs very little it is often less good quality
It doesn't work like that. The reason class d weighs less has to do with efficiency and design. A transistor is a switch. Switches like to be on or off. What happens with class a or ab, is the transistor that amplifies the signal is run somewhere in between on or off almost 100% of the time. This generates a great deal of heat, so things have to be built to take that type of stress. Class D amps work differently. The amp taps the analog signal coming from the preamp and converts it to digital. That digital signal is then used to turn the transistors off and on really fast. They never operate in between, just on or off. There's almost no hear generated. The HCA-2 amp that Paul mentions in the video runs cooler than the matching preamp (PCA-2).
"but in general when an amplifier weighs very little it is often less good quality"
Making a class D amp heavier wouldn't give you better sound, or build quality. There's just no reason for it to be heavy.
No. Transformer would not filter any noise from mains input, a good SMPS would. SMPS can be less noisy than transformer, if designed properly. And it will hold its output voltage no matter the load, so it can even contribute to better dynamics.
@@solarfall2728 Class D does NOT convert analog signal to digital, it's analog all the way. The fact that it gets PWM/PDM modulated doesn't mean it's digital.
Class D IS NOT digital.
@@tomkocur Calm down. I know you want to be right. While there's no requirement that a class d amp convert the signal to digital, the ones of the context of this discussion do. The ice modules, and most of the other popular ones for audio, tap into the analog signal, convert it to digital, and use that digital signal to turn the transistors on and off. I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but everyone knows the signal you hear coming out of a class d amp never gets concerted to digital. The digital is only used in the control circuit. I can provide references if you like.
"Class D amps work differently. The amp taps the analog signal coming from the preamp and converts it to digital."
You were talking about Class D in general, I don't see ICE mentioned anywhere in this discussion.
But go ahead, provide the references please. I don't see ICE mentioning "digital" anywhere and I don't see any AD conversion in the functional block of TPA31xx, which is a pretty popular Class D amplifier IC.
Thats what they always sey
büy yer youngest child a console. better pc. startup valve1.
anomalous materials v v
make it 400 >>
Why is this guy acting so smug when their amp is built from off-the-shelf class D modules and nothing special at all?
And if money is tight you can get the Wharfedale Pro mp2800 2800 watts into 2 channels £500 new now that would be a good head to head with the 300 somebody should do it lol
He says "$400, $4000" *No* It's $6000! This guy is the poster boy for being clueless.
Lol
Class D is for deaf people. I remember getting my first D:s in my PA and we spent a day looking for the problem because we could not understand that the amount of power it was supposed to put out was nowhere to be found. Back to Crown Macro-Techs.
Have you considered that this could have been a problem of that specific amp and not the topology itself?
Because they are vegan
Class d still not good enough.
Still lack texture and color. Class A, A/B more "musical"
Clearly, because of inferior quality.