Time Delay on break for compressor
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2013
- The time delay on break, how it works, how to wire into low voltage,and why you should have it on your compressor.
Thanks for watching!
- David
David@DavidJonesAC.com
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Great videos, great advice. Thank you for taking the time to provide the internet with so much knowledge. Greatly appreciate you. I’m a technician your videos have helped so much.
Thank you for your comment, that means a lot to me all I want to do is help. Always keep an open mind to learn and you will succeed.
Good Luck!!!
Thanks for the comment, I agree good investment.
This time delay will help extend compressor life. Very useful on older systems. Thanks for watching.
Love the video, so im a hvac technician who is currently going to college for it, prior to having on the field experience. Constantly calling for cooling continuously is bad for a unit, runs out the motor. Time delays prevents it from detent over & over again
Very worthwhile investment in my opinion. Especially on a zone system where rapid cycling can occur or where power company issues are common like you sais. Good video david
I love you videos so much. My dad is currently the owner of Air Service heating and management and I work with him as an apprentice during the summer. You videos have helped me learn more and more about the HVAC industry and I just have to say thank you.
Thanks for the comment, I hope it helped.
Yeah you are right about time delays they will increase compressors life. Tks for your videos
Hey David! Nice little video. Good job on the explanation. Not bad , not bad I must say my friend. Talk to you soon.
Great video, thanks
thank you very helpful
Well I personally want to take time to say thank you for sharing your knowledge. Blessing and more blessings to you and your family in Jesus name Amen 🙏🙏🙏❤️
Yes they do..
Hey Mr Jones. You're an amazing professional
The batteries in the thermostat operate the electronics as well as a small latch relay that activates the 24 volt Circuit going to the contactor in the condenser.
So it's basically acting a battery operated switch. But since it's not getting power from anything but the batteries , it cannot react to a line power interruption. Some thermostats run on 24 volts but they will have a common wire.
Awesome, glad it helped.
Good info.
You can get ones that run off line voltage, but you will have to pack in a small contactor rated for the motor run current as well, as they typically only are rated to drive a relay directly. This though will be easy to fit into a small waterproof boc placed at the rear of the unit and then connected to the run and common of the compressor with heavy cables. The contactor must only break the common lead though, if you break the run one you will burn out the start winding very fast.
I am a certified Ref & AC mechanic. What you were explaining in the first 30 sec of the video was "Delay on Make" sequence. The "Delay on Break" Relay you are holding is the one that would trigger the delay timer as soon as the thermostat is satisfied or power is lost (after thermostat was turned up and having the compressor running for a while). When the relay is within its delay interval, this prevents compressor from running even if the thermostat is turned up, the circuit will make as soon as the delay interval is over (e.g 3 minutes).
+friendlai Would this timer be wired in series with the load, in the this case, the contactor?
Exactly what I was thinking.
Great video David. I will add if I may, that those "delay on break" start the timer when power fails. The ones that start the timer when power calls for cooling are the "delay on make". Both work the same in making sure compressor stays off 3-10 minutes after power has turned off or failed. Take care, Brett
So glad you added this. And to add also if I may, the 'delay on break' is the one you want to use if you are in an area with lots of power outages. That way the compressor will turn off instead of cycling on/off and possibly causing your compressor to fail or incorrectly run on reverse.
One more thing if I may add. It looks like the wires were connected in reverse. The yellow wire coming from the thermostat should go to the "input" of the delay. It seems from the video it was connected backwards. Additional references: ua-cam.com/video/7vzqKCT_xmc/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/pUrs7djTKxA/v-deo.html
Great video. Question: Can this also be wired into a freezer compressor?
I think you described a delay on MAKE timer, not a delay on break timer.
Hope it helped.
The time delay on break, how it works, how to wire into low voltage,and why you should have it on your compressor
Sorry but no it's not gonna delay the start up of the coil and energizing the system, that's the reason you hear the contactor pull in as soon as the second wire is connected. It is most useful if you have a compressor running in cooler weather which may allow the suction pressure to drop off momentarily below the set point of the low pressure cut out. If you have this device wired in it would prevent the unit from shutting off by wiring it in series with the low pressure cut out. If you are concerned about not allowing the compressor to restart immediately you would install a delay on make timer instead. Even though we want cooling now instead of in 5 to 7 minutes as the rocket scientist may have suggested the strain on your equipment caused by restarting it immediately after shutting down is a much bigger problem than waiting 5-7 minutes. The industry standard is a minimum off time of 3 minutes. +friendlai is correct
Interesting suggestion using it to prevent a low side off, I was about to ask why not just adjust the cut out but I have a brain and believe I just realized why. So after a certain time the same low side setting would suffice to keep unit off, your application just prevent short cycling during times of the year not targeted by whoever setup the system. Lots of words to say little I know, I'm good at that......
Oh, you also misinformed me, I'll let you figure out how in your "series" of words.....
This is a really good video thanks. Could this be a solution to a problem with my AC compressor (American Standard) where the unit makes a loud humming noise when there is a brown out in power? (I think) the motor starts to run in the wrong direction when we get a brown out and makes the noise and stops cooling. If I turn off the AC unit for a few minutes and turn it back on it solves the issue. Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
Most modern thermostats have time delays for the compressor built in already and some are adjustable
David
I saw the relay come in immediately , so I presume that there is something in the
internal circuitry of the TD on that will keep it from coming back on after the power has been removed. I installed a 5 min TD on switch after my compressor keep short cycling from a blocked condensate drain, and it came on immediately on power up.
Being an industrial electrician I have not see a TD on act this way in industry, usually they will not pull the relay in on power up. Thanks for the vid
Pat Rose WHERE'S THE PROOF? More rightist lies like ' I'm gonna build a wall and make them pay for it!'
Great vid! Question? If I have a thermostat that has a 5 min delay on it could I bypass this time delay relay. I’m just asking because the one I need is discontinued. Or are they pretty much interchangeable as long as volts and amps Mach up? Need help guys 🙏
you could put a small plot of how you installed the timer
.
At this date (Feb '14) I see these on eBay for 10 bucks including shipping. Different brand name, but part number ICM203. Search for "delay on break relay," or "delay on make relay," and they come right up.
They're on Amazon too for a couple of bucks more.
.
so there are 2 wires out of the time delay, one goes to a wire on the capacitor (The Common), then it looks like you hooked up the other wire to a hot 24 volt wire that was going to the contactor. Could you clear that up thanks.
The delay on make should be the opposite of a delay on break, but they appear to be the same. Let’s say I want to keep the compressor on for an minimum of 5 minutes, even when y2 opens, I want it to continue to run for 5 minutes. This should prevent the 3 flash I’m getting on the Copeland technologies CADM controller.
What you're referring to in this case is a "Off-Delay Timer (Delay on Release)" which is neither of the types this video is talking about.
Can I add one of these time delays on a 15,000 BTU window air conditioner?
We get a few power interruptions at times, short ones like a second or so.
Might be completely out of line and crazy but why not use the thermostat to protect the comp on small rezy stuff?
how do you apply the td to a condenser as you said you prefer vs a compressor? you say it doesn't matter why isn't it the same relay control?
can i use something like this to run my central AC off a 7k watt generator..?? I want to run my 7k watt generator to power my central ac but i am worried about the start up wattage... My generator is a 9k watt start up with 7k watt continuous...
By delay'ing each device in the central ac, i may be able to run my central ac.. For example.. Turn the thermostat ON... this will alert the inside unit (furnace or air handler) which will then alert the outside compressor and fan motor... all 3 will surge ON and pull a massive amount of power hence the start up wattage...
By delaying each device by about 1-2 minutes each, 1st the inside air handler will start up, then 2 minutes later the outside fan will kick on, then 2 minutes later the compressor kicks on.. this method i can minimize the start up wattage and be able to run my central ac... what do you think..??
Not really, it would be difficult. Thanks for asking.
Hello! !My GE Air works fine the first 4-hours than it gets tried and just blows warm air, so I just turn it off! !Help!!Thanks
Thanks man, Ive encountered those a couple times, they were broken, so I took them out of the chain. Always wondered what those are for.
How often are you seeing these delay on break time delays go bad? I have a roof top unit serving about 9,300 square feet of my building and I have had 2 go bad this past summer and I just had another go yesterday. Bypassed the delay temporarily while another is on order. Coils are being cleaned bi-monthly, and filters changed quarterly (inspected monthly) Anything else that I could be doing to extend the life?
Well firstly, the gentleman in the video installed the wrong relay. He should've installed a "delay on make" relay to match what he was saying. As to your problem, I would say to verify that you're installing it properly. Double check that the voltage you're using as the input to the timer, is what you have the timer configured for. The timer comes by default setup for 24v and if you cut that looped wire at the bottom, it will work with 120 or 240v. Also, verify that the trigger voltage you're using is going into the input side of the timer, not the output.
If all that stuff is proper, I would say to use a small contactor rated for the voltage/amperage of the wire you're using to pass the load through to. Wire the timer's output to the input of the coil on the contactor (make sure they also match voltage) and then run the wire that powers your device (compressor etc.) through the contactor's input/outputs. Should solve your problem!
Basically pointless considering any descent t-stat has a time delay built in. I could really only see using this in a situation where you are running off a pressure control.(refrigeration)
It's not pointless. You're right, modern thermostats have built in delays. Suppose you have an issue with a low charge an its cycling the pressure switch. If the thermostat is still calling, the compressor is going to cycle with the pressure switch and more than likely burn up. Also, think of an area where you have a lot of short power outages. That can destroy a scroll compressor. A delay will keep that from happening.
Does it make any difference which side of the thermostat 2 lead wire is attached to either the load or input side of the delay switch. one side of the thermostat wire has very low voltage and the other side does not. I just disconnected the thermostat wire for another reason and lost track of which side went to the delay switch. can it be hooked up backwards?
Yes, the yellow wire coming from your thermostat should go to the input of the delay. Check this one: ua-cam.com/video/7vzqKCT_xmc/v-deo.html and this one ua-cam.com/video/pUrs7djTKxA/v-deo.html
I have a 25 year old Lennox A/C Condensor unit that was just serviced by PSE&G Worry Free Service. It had a faulty timer switch. The tech said I didn't need to replace it because my one year old digital thermostat has the timer programmed into it making the outside switch unnecessary. He just removed the switch and its working fine now. Is he correct or should I really get that timer replaced?
If your thermostat runs on battery power the timer will prevent the relay from energizing for set amount of time after it is denergized by the thermostat.
But your thermostat will not know if there is a power line interruption and will continue to energize the relay, so if the power interruption is short your air-conditioner will short cycle.
I thought the batteries in the thermostat prevent that. Isn't that what they're there for?
I want to connect to mandatory five-minute time delay relay?
I'm wiring in a 7kw portable generator to the house main panel. However, when I try to feed backup power, it sounds like it's trying to draw too much power. I'd like to delay the outside fan coming on so that only the compressor draws power first. Is this safe to do with a time delay on break switch wired into the outside fan circuit?
No, you’d want to use a condenser fan cycling switch. It’s a hi pressure switch that makes on pressure rise. Sequence is, compressor starts, head pressure increases, high pressure switch makes, condenser fan starts. Very common.
My AC compressor has some kind of delay that allows the pressure across the compressor to equalize before the unit will restart, but I can't find it... 2007 Rheem Classic 4 ton.
Its probably delaying it with the tstat if you have a programable stat. Checking the setting in it.
My t-stat turns on after 4 degree difference,tstat set on 78 a/c & it turns on when it reaches to 81 degrees,is on auto & i replaced tstat twice what could it be?
Joe. good info, but why would not inform the customer to wash out the vents before over charging them.
A. Ramjohn Why over charge them when he found a problem that could save the customers 100s of dollars in the future? Do you rhink he works for free? Do you even realized that if he leaves the job withouth doing nothing to that coil the customer will call him back and he will have to charge them again just for going? He is not overcharging the customer!
What you are describing is a delay on make. But you are calling it delay on break. Delay on break lets it run for a set time after the tstat quits calling for heat/cool
Delay on break and delay on make are two components which is used for Air conditioning system
I'm not paid enough, Kevin is wrong too, half wrong at least. Most Deb relays will prevent unit from running after system shuts it off for a present period of time. What you referenced is only possible if normally on and off and common is available on the device. Most do not
plz help me this will put for defrost
what I want is the Fan motor (of the outside unit) to come first and then after 10 second the compressor to come. How can I do it.?
Find the relays and use a delay on make
Should be mandatory in the state of Florida.
Sirve para 6.5 A
Great video thank you. If I may add, it looks like the wires were connected in reverse. The yellow wire coming from the thermostat should go to the "input" of the delay. It seems from the video it was connected backwards. This could cause issues on the contactor. Additional references: ua-cam.com/video/7vzqKCT_xmc/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/pUrs7djTKxA/v-deo.html
What's the difference between make and brake delay ?
Delay on make starts the delay timer when it is energized. Delay on break starts the timer when it is deenergized.
Insightful and saved $220.00 by doing it myself!
I love how you are incorrect within the first ten seconds, other people waste my time and don't provide misinformation until halfway or at the end.
dave what are you doing.....this will over work any unit compressed
Wow that is a dirty coil. We used an alkaline emulsifier, but those rheem and ruud coils could take longer to clean.
You explained the use exactly wrong. Wow
I thought Break was delay after running and Make was delay on???
Your describing a delay on make but calling it a delay on break.
WTF...a simple diagram of what you hooked where wudda been nice.
Charge them to clean the dirt? Hmm i was you i would not do that. You the type that would charge 100 bucks just to arrive at your door huh? Washing is nothing. I would tell the customer that i wash it with no charge. Give my service 5 stars
latinhuck yeah just work for free then.
@@danwhiteglover never said work for free. Washing the coils is not a hard job. Maybe the customer should charge you for using thier own water.... You must be Jew ! Where is Borat when you need him haha. слава россии )))
I wish you folks would stop putting these how-to videos on You Tube. Without even realizing it, you are slowly putting yourself and many other thousands of HVAC techs out of work. I now have customers calling me to "tell me how to hook up" a part they bought on Amazon or Ebay. Most simple repairs and many more complicated ones are now completely laid out for anyone to see, so many repair calls will never be made. Also, since you can now buy just about anything you need online, including refrigerant and complete systems, untold dollars are being lost to the hardworking tech. The same is true for automotive techs, electricians and plumbers, and many other craftsmen. BTW, you have another issue with that compressor, since your contactor closed it should be running.
Humm, most likely opened the main disconnect before sticking his fingers in there wouldn't you think Roger?
Yes information is valuable but just how much would the installation of this delay timer be worth to a "highly trained" technician? HVAC isn't rocket science it's just some mechanical/electrical aptitude and physics. There will always be a demand for specialized repairs why not let the homeowner save some $$ maintaining and preforming simple repairs. Seems like you would rather overcharge unknowing customers for simple stuff. If that's the case you are the biggest threat to your own business. Smart techs and business owners realize this.
Bro, you're just a hater. Find a niche; find some good clients, and you'll always be busy. I enable my clients when they're low income; high income clients never bother to do anything, they always call me. Looks like your lack of quality clientele is a reflection of your philosophies. Close down HD, Lowe's, Amazon, ebay, and let Roger the Dodger rake in his dough 🎉😂