If you have to pronounce the wheego dead, you need to send a Gift Basket to that guy from Wheego support, Or at least call him from time to time, He might get lonely losing his only customer.
Poor man/woman survived covit waiting watching her phone hoping and praying the only customer will call before the boss of the weego remembers they still employ someone on the customer helpline so she can feed his or hers three cats
@@Ryzomadman I get the impression this guy isn't employed anymore, he just rerouted the support phone number to his home and answers it in his spare time.
Install a trailer hitch, then tow the smokiest old diesel generator you can find to power the Wheego. Bonus points if you cover the Wheego in "ALL ELECTRIC ZERO EMISSIONS" stickers.
This is an opportunity for you to get together with one of the DIY Battery UA-camrs (Like Will Prowse?) and build a new DIY battery in that case! You'd definitely be losing Wheego support, but hey! Maybe more fun than the junkyard...
@@NaoPb It absolutely is! The only "complex" part about large Lithium chemistry battery setups is maintaining their charge correctly. (Which is what all those BMS modules do) There's lots of good stuff for DIYers out on the market now, many people are doing EV conversions of cars :)
It is possible and not outrageously hard. I have built batteries for my ebikes before, out of 18650 cells and pre-built BMS board you can buy online. Has been working fine for over a year now, 10s4p for my small 36v motor. The hardest part for me was the spot welding, which isn't required here in that form. I'd argue this wheego pack is easy to assemble, just because of the physical size of the batteries. He already has a housing for them and they are heavy duty cells connected via bolt-on pole terminals. No need for tiny cell holders, nickel strips, shrink wrap etc. It probably isn't difficult finding a BMS that has the exact same specs and rating, judging by wheego quality they might not even be proprietary parts in the first place. This entire car is just a computer with a dumb motor that will run whenever it gets electric power form anything. If you hook up a programmable power supply and a step converter you could probably use all kinds of batteries in this car.
@@cambamscott9195 yeah I laughed my ass off when said it's back he was like 550 Amps when he said in a previous video that it was usually at around 600 amps so I knew it was already starting to die before he got onto the highway
If nothing else, the battery pack should be a great starter for making your own power wall. If built right, you could even just plonk it into the bus at some point, or atleast have the experience of how to build one specifically for the bus.
What would be the point of that? These batteries are a bad candidate for such a project. As far as I know, most lithium power storage for solar is lithion ion, not these types. The voltages are different and the charging characteristics are different.
tarstarkusz the charging voltages are irrelevant most inverter chargers are programmable. At least those you’d use for a bank of that size, avoiding the chinesium garbage.
@@tarstarkusz Lithium Iron Phosphate are great for solar installs where space and weight isn't as much of a concern. They are more robust, have a greater cycle life, and cost per watt is a little less.
I really like how you use your editing skills, you've had the same style since the beginning, but this one must have taken an absolute lifetime to edit. Great job!
You can distinctly hear the sound of his heart sinking when he says "it wasn't this slow before". Plunk. It's a shame, but this was a very solid attempt nonetheless; not to mention, it mad for a nice serie to watch. Thanks!
You mentioned that Wheego often bought their cars back when the owners died - is it possible Wheego has some used parts they might sell you? Or could put you in touch with a junkyard that has some? You seem to really enjoy the Wheego, and I hope you find a way to keep it functional. I mean, eventually the Wheego is going to be a part-donor for some ill-considered Frankenstein project car, be it an electric riding mower or a 2-seat city car with a 6-cylinder diesel engine from a school bus. But that day doesn't need to hurry.
They look very much like the Winston 400Ah cells that a lot of DIY EV builders use. You will NOT like the price of them though. Edit: Wikipedia says the car has a 260Ah pack, so the correct cells are the Winston WB-LYP260AHA. A bit cheaper at $327 each, but still a big investment.
@@thatguyoverthere531 I suspect only a few of the cells would need replacing (the bulged one is a prime suspect) but even 3-4 cells would be a significant part of the car's value.
@@ferrumignis Annoyingly with most battery packs, all the cells are matched up each other. So you'd are you'd have to buy a complete replacement otherwise the battery pack won't work right. Also the other issue, we don't know that the Winston cells have the same specs as the cells in the wheego.
@@thatguyoverthere531 No cells are ever perfectly matched which is why batteries without cell balancing systems degrade in the first place. Putting some higher capacity new cells in won't restore the whole pack to as new capacity but it will still work fine.
According to the last archived version of the Wheego Cars website, this battery pack is composed of 260Ah LiFePo4 cells (math checks out; 36 of them @3.2V produce a total of 29.952kW). The only company that makes battery cells with these specifications seems to be indeed Winston, with the WB-LYP260AHA model; it sells for around $300 apiece, new. Oof.
There are cheaper LiFePO4 cells available though, or even go Li-Ion and power it with a shitload of 18650s. So 115V/29.952kW on this pack, making an equivalent with 3.7V 18650 cells at 2500mAh each we need at least a 32s100p configuration. 32 batteries in series for ca. 115V (118), at least a hundred of these rows in parallel to archieve ca. 260Ah (250). So with that we're already looking at 3200 batteries, might be $2 per cell. That is still $6400 and an outrageous setup of batteries that even large car manufacturers struggle to keep working properly and reliably over years. Not to mention the pain in the butt that will be to assemble, and add in like $2000 for battery holders, new or even custom BMS, charge controller, nickel strips, spot welding equipment. He could use even cheaper batteries, let's go lead acid. That will have a much wider recharge threshold, they will easily go flat and die if used in such a way. We need an external component to increase the gap between the charge voltage and recharge voltage, maybe hook up a programmable power supply inline or go with and a step converter on the pack itself, that we'd have to experiment with. But all that might require to replace the cars computer and subsequently gauge cluster, entire switchgear and wiring harness with custom made or specifically bought ICs in order to keep the car reliable and get acceptable accuracy on the readouts/tolerances.
@@ccllvn A problem with 18650 cells is there non existant resistance against cold temperatures and there comparably small number of cycles (~800 for Liion, min 2000 with up to 8000 for LiFeYPo4)
Keep in mind this is a cheap Chinese car.....do you really want to make it go fast when the only real means of stopping it would be a prayer or an immovable object?
Go For It!! Stuff The BIGGEST Ninja motor in it and burn rubber until something Burst Into Flames!!! See if you can get that Colin guy from England to help out?
I know this is really late but having only just seen this I must say it. Your method of charging the cells left you with a wildly unbalanced pack and will result in cells being overcharged resulting in further bloating and premature cell death. Once you got them all to the same rough voltage you needed to put them ALL in parallel and charge until 3.6V and the current had dropped off to < 10mA, this would have guaranteed they were all at the same state of charge. The fact that the car thought it had a 60+% SOC confirms that this is the problem as SOC is estimated based on total pack voltage, for example, if 50% of your cells were lets say 70% SOC, and the other 50% were 50% SOC, the total voltage would give you that 60% SOC reading. The problem here is once you put it onto a charger at 300+V, it's going to overcharge those cells that are charged higher. BMSs should limit this, but only to the extent of preventing a fire by shutting down the entire pack should the cells go too far out of spec (as it did when it discharged too far). And before anyone states "the BMS will level them", sorry, but most BMSs on large packs like this even if they have bleed resistors to do this (as this is the cheapest and simplest way), can't do enough levelling in time when they are so far out. BMS levelling is to correct for minor discrepancies due to internal resistance difference between cells, the pack is still expected to be very close to level when it's assembled, attempting to use the BMS to level a pack that is so wildly out of balance is like trying to stop your boat from sinking with an eyedropper.
Your ingenuity, stamina, and patience are amazing. Electric cars will suffer from this obsolescence as long as batteries cannot be replaced easily and at a fair price. I hope makers realize this and move toward a design that is more like power tools...just drop the battery pack and replace it. Owners could join a co-op to exchange packs to end wait time to charge, end being stuck with a dead pack for the failure of a single or few cells, and with a wide spread network of exchange stations = no range anxiety on long trips. I would think this could very easily come to the commercial truck business. Just my 2 cents
Sounds like its time for a “mad scientist” style Prius battery conversion! Or ... a “midnight run” to the local golf course to liberate many, many golf cart batteries! Forget Santa! Where is the Energizer Bunny when you need him?
It was good to see it driving again... for a while. I don't suppose there is another (cheap) Wheego battery pack that you could obtain second hand? Maybe even a part one to replace the weak cells. Alternatively, are there different battery types that you could substitute for the originals? Different charging and controls would be needed, but on balance later batteries should at least have a higher charge capacity for their weight.
I love this channel. Came here from Tavarish and while I like his channel it’s just so refreshing that you don’t have thousand cuts and loud music. Please never change the pace of your videos.
“This battery has ballooned a bit, I hope that’s not a problem” yeah if a lithium battery expands that is a very bad sign and that may mean that the single cell was over charged, this could be a huge fire hazard. I think you should at least check it thoroughly and I would contact wheego if I was you. Anyway great job fixing up that hilarious little car, I love your content!
Introvert Airways it doesn’t always mean it’s been overcharged. When the internal formula gets damaged from misuse (like almost dying) oxygen forms and causes the cell to puff.
Not a good sign. With the voltage that low, good chance a cell has gone into reverse. You could possibly charge each cell separately with a hobbyist battery workstation like a PowerLab8. But as you say, getting cells are problematic. Most economical... source Nissan Leaf cells. You may have to reprogram charger and BMS, but they should work (this is what I replaced the bad pack in my Vectrix VX-1 Scooter with)
So much respect for you for knowing/learning about that battery pack. We're light-years ahead of that chemistry and energy density, but knowing about how the early EVs are built is fascinating!
i remember you said a while back you knew of another Wheego that died because of issues in the motor...maybe somehow you could find the battery from that one for yours? long shot but maybe an idea...
10:25 I don't think they cut away the floor just for the upright portion of the battery, that just looks like the access hatch for the area where the gas engine would normally be.
I made a DIY battery test rig for the used LiFePO4 batteries I bought for my RV. It was fairly crude, using an Arduino, a contactor, and a properly sized resistor as a load. I then charged the battery to test to full using a bench power supply. The code on the arduino measured the voltage once a minute, and opened the contactor when the cell got to my discharged voltage. I then plotted the resulting time vs voltage graph, and compared it to what I could find for a discharge graph of common LiFePO4 batteries, as well as calculated the Ah capacity of each cell. I think it worked pretty well to test them.
The LiFePO4 cells I have are also 3.2 nominal, but if you look at their charge/discharge curves and other data (and also what I've tested on them myself), at a resting voltage of 3.2v they basically don't have anything left. Voltage isn't a great way to measure state of charge with them because they have such a narrow voltage range (which is why cars typically use coulomb counting), but, my cells are typically 90% full at a resting voltage of 3.4v and have about 20% at 3.20v. So if they were sagging back to 3.20 to 3.24, either they hadn't been charged nearly enough, or they had some fairly substantial self-discharge issues.
You need to do a video of opening one of those battery packs. My guess is it contains lots of AA batteries. Maybe you could get Ryobi to sponsor your channel and you could power it by their batteries. :D
Not as silly as it sounds. The Tesla Model S uses over 7000 standard 18650 laptop cells which are probably the same as in the Ryobi packs (ten in a 4AH 20V pack).
LiFePO4 is generally considered nontoxic. The organic electrolyte, however, can be a mess. You'll need the MSDS for that exact battery to know for sure. (however, there's usually very little electrolyte in there.)
Yes, that swollen pack may be a show-stopper. Those of us in the RC flying community are well aware of the death signs in lithium batteries. Forcing a sick pack is asking for a really exciting fire. Best of luck, however... the Wheego has its charms, and I’d love to see it healthy again. Regards from St. Charles -
LiPo is not like LiFePo4. A bloated LiFePo4 is common, manufacturers of the cells even recommend you put them under clamping pressure to prevent the unavoidable bloat they all go through when under high discharge loads, like in an EV. Also, a LiFePo4 does not rupture violently like your hobby LiPo, or catch on fire, they are a very safe cell. There are several videos on YT doing destructive worst case tests (crush, puncture, over charge, over discharge, dead short circuit, and blowtorch tests) on these cells that show how safe they are.
I work with automotive battery packs. I know some chemistries are more robust than others, but in our testing if the cell voltage is below 2.8V, serious damage can happen, most notably lithium plating which damages the cells in ways that cannot be reversed by charging. When you said your most charged cells were 1.3V I immediately thought the whole thing wouldn't work. Good luck, love the video, and love the Wheego!
And here we are back to the real reason they named it Wheego. You yell "whee" on the occasions you get the car to go. Then you yell "whee" after you finally get back home after your car broke down. Reminds one of the wonderful "Yugo" cars of the past that would break down and then off "you go" walking home. Still, you've learned allot from your efforts and taught us allot and gave us allot of enjoyment in watching you do it while adding in your great sense of humor. Kudos!
A few thoughts: I appreciate the large amount of time it took for you to do this video for my entertainment! Second: I say you do an engine swap on the Wheego. Make an electric car run on a regular gas engine! Third: Keep up the good work! My only wish for you is to make more videos. I love your channel.
If your lift has a manual lowering lever right on the valve, you can run the pump and use that valve to throttle it. If you have a fancy electronic lowering button, then just ignore me.
Just a note about your lift--I noticed that one side lifts first, and your safety locks are not engaging at the same time. The two balance cables need to be checked and tightened so that both sides operate simultaneously.......... (I have the same style lift)
At 17:30 I've felt so happy, I thought I would have teared my eyes if there were heartwarming music in the background. You can see that Robert really loves his Wheego! Sure, its perfomance is laughable, the build quality is unreal bad, but as a car it has its loving charm like every other.
You can buy LiFePo4 battery cells anywhere. Finding exact dimensions may be problem and new ones will be way smaller with same rated capacity, but other than that ... just look at aliexpress or amazon. Edit: Just looked at aliexpress and you can have 200Ah/3.2v batteries for around 100USD. So depending on how much you want to spend on this, you could rebuild the whole battery for under 4k (way more than the weego is worth most likely).
when you charged 4 batteries in parallel you probably killed the rest of your cells. dead cells could have the same voltage as a good cells but the capacity is lower and to make it worse bad cells get so much hotter and puffier under load and could catch fire. don’t charge batteries in banks like that if they could be bad. and don’t put any puffy batteries back that’s a good sign it’s very dead. take the batteries out and test the capacity of each individually before putting them back in. batteries need to be pared with similar capacities if in parallel.
Trickle charging batteries in parallel won't kill them like you describe, it's charging or discharging them in series (without a BMS) that will do that. He did both, though, so it's possible some extra cells were damaged.
It’s casual Friday in the shop - pajamas are now permitted and even encouraged. Also - [cuts away] “ok it’s been two weeks” [still wearing the same shirt] 😜 What’s up? I’m amped! I made a cell tower [spits coffee] 🤣 PS: my OCD loves the perfectly edited disassembly and reassembly montages. More please.
That was ANOTHER electrifying video - I loved it, except that I am sad for you. About to watch the follow-up video in a most HOPEFUL frame of mind. Seriously, I love see you take stuff apart!!!
As a person who has taken a Hybrid Battery Safety course, this entire video made me nervous and on edge. These battery packs are incredibly dangerous and can be fatal if you are not careful. They are very dangerous to work on if you are not careful and know what you are doing. All that being said, I am bummed that the Wheego appears to be dead :(
In what way? There are a lot of people who get off on telling everyone how dangerous things are. You need to be more specific before you are convincing. Of course there are some dangers but they aren’t really too hard to avoid with a bit of knowledge.
@@michaelfisher9671 In the way that they can deliver a lethal shock if not handled with proper care. The systems I dealt with had safety features like a high voltage interlock loop that is supposed to disengage the contactors when disconnected, but a system like on the Wheego looks a little...Ehhh. Even with safety features, there is a lot of potential energy stored in these packs and touching the wrong thing, even by accident, can be dangerous.
Bad timing commercial...bad... "Here's the battery pack!" -shows 'battery' pack Ad: Auto parts ad for batteries is appropriate Me: Associates ick battery from Wheeeee!Go with advertiser. Now I am repulsed to buy batteries from them. (Edit for spelling)
If you have to pronounce the wheego dead, you need to send a Gift Basket to that guy from Wheego support, Or at least call him from time to time, He might get lonely losing his only customer.
Or both. Both sounds good, that guy deserves the world.
Poor man/woman survived covit waiting watching her phone hoping and praying the only customer will call before the boss of the weego remembers they still employ someone on the customer helpline so she can feed his or hers three cats
It's like the Maytag repair guy but for opposite reasons
Invite him on and do a live feed and people can ask him questions!
@@Ryzomadman I get the impression this guy isn't employed anymore, he just rerouted the support phone number to his home and answers it in his spare time.
"I'm amped, I made a cell-tower... please don't leave" LMFAO not at all, this is why I follow this channel!!!
You missed "Watts up?" 😛
Amen!
superb dark humour.....
I watched that part a few tk many times
shocking.
Its amazing how the battery pack is built like a tank, but the rest of the car is built like a wheego
The rest of the car is built like a Shuanghuan Noble
This is how a welder would make cars.
Car hacking at its best.
Or worst, depending on your point of view.
that battery pack is not built like a tank. I've seen better welding on harbor freight trailers.
like a soviet tank, rather...
3 electricity puns in 5 seconds? Anyone give you resistance on that?
This guy has some potential.
Those puns shocked us all
@Micheal Meyer god damnit... you stole my joke...
or i was too late.. guess my current ideas are a little bad...
WeeGoNowhere?
Watt? I must have missed them.
Why not put a Trabant motor into it? That's a sensible idea. Isn't it?
Ya, LS swapping is soooooo last year.
Hybrid wheego
Bruh you guys should run this channel not him 🤣🤣🤣
Screw that get a high horsepower Japanese motorcycle engine lol.
I mean the Trabant motor probably would almost double the horsepower so that sounds like a decent idea
Install a trailer hitch, then tow the smokiest old diesel generator you can find to power the Wheego. Bonus points if you cover the Wheego in "ALL ELECTRIC ZERO EMISSIONS" stickers.
YES!!!
Sounds like the job for a 2-stroke detroit! But put it on-board, maybe a little 2-53 sticking right out the hood
It would be hilarious to make it essentially a train. Smoky diesel, a decent sized alternator, and peripherals.
Instead of a diesel generator it should be a Trabant engine!
Needs a Wartburg 353W engine :3
This is an opportunity for you to get together with one of the DIY Battery UA-camrs (Like Will Prowse?) and build a new DIY battery in that case! You'd definitely be losing Wheego support, but hey! Maybe more fun than the junkyard...
I didn't know that was possible. That sounds like a great idea!
What Wheego support??
@@NaoPb It absolutely is! The only "complex" part about large Lithium chemistry battery setups is maintaining their charge correctly. (Which is what all those BMS modules do)
There's lots of good stuff for DIYers out on the market now, many people are doing EV conversions of cars :)
Paging Jehu
It is possible and not outrageously hard. I have built batteries for my ebikes before, out of 18650 cells and pre-built BMS board you can buy online. Has been working fine for over a year now, 10s4p for my small 36v motor. The hardest part for me was the spot welding, which isn't required here in that form.
I'd argue this wheego pack is easy to assemble, just because of the physical size of the batteries. He already has a housing for them and they are heavy duty cells connected via bolt-on pole terminals. No need for tiny cell holders, nickel strips, shrink wrap etc.
It probably isn't difficult finding a BMS that has the exact same specs and rating, judging by wheego quality they might not even be proprietary parts in the first place. This entire car is just a computer with a dumb motor that will run whenever it gets electric power form anything. If you hook up a programmable power supply and a step converter you could probably use all kinds of batteries in this car.
"My little electric car that coul.....dn't" LMAO
I laughed my butt off on that line
@@cambamscott9195 yeah I laughed my ass off when said it's back he was like 550 Amps when he said in a previous video that it was usually at around 600 amps so I knew it was already starting to die before he got onto the highway
This needs to win an award for "Most Melodious Editing 2020". Well done, enjoyed every minute (and every electric pun) of it.
I am waiting for the YTP'ers to get a hold of those clips.
I guess you could say the melody was electrifying.
If nothing else, the battery pack should be a great starter for making your own power wall. If built right, you could even just plonk it into the bus at some point, or atleast have the experience of how to build one specifically for the bus.
Yeah, if you decide to replace the cells in the weego you could use some of the old batteries that still test good in your bus.
What would be the point of that?
These batteries are a bad candidate for such a project. As far as I know, most lithium power storage for solar is lithion ion, not these types. The voltages are different and the charging characteristics are different.
Not really. The battery cells are mostly dead so it would be a pretty lousy power wall. :)
tarstarkusz the charging voltages are irrelevant most inverter chargers are programmable. At least those you’d use for a bank of that size, avoiding the chinesium garbage.
@@tarstarkusz Lithium Iron Phosphate are great for solar installs where space and weight isn't as much of a concern. They are more robust, have a greater cycle life, and cost per watt is a little less.
It's not dead. It's just resting. It's pining for the recharger.
It's a Nocharging Blue, beautiful plumage.
@@jimmincey2285 Mate, this car wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it!
@@robertrhode675 naw naw naw it's resting. Remarkable car. Lovely body work.
It is pining for the fjords
@@kevinbarry71 pining for the Fords, maybe.
I really like how you use your editing skills, you've had the same style since the beginning, but this one must have taken an absolute lifetime to edit. Great job!
I love watching Fast Robert work.
God, yeah! Was about to mention it! Definitely makes things more "fluid" all the while, while cutting everything up!
It's a return to form, good job, Robert!
You can distinctly hear the sound of his heart sinking when he says "it wasn't this slow before". Plunk.
It's a shame, but this was a very solid attempt nonetheless; not to mention, it mad for a nice serie to watch. Thanks!
You mentioned that Wheego often bought their cars back when the owners died - is it possible Wheego has some used parts they might sell you? Or could put you in touch with a junkyard that has some?
You seem to really enjoy the Wheego, and I hope you find a way to keep it functional.
I mean, eventually the Wheego is going to be a part-donor for some ill-considered Frankenstein project car, be it an electric riding mower or a 2-seat city car with a 6-cylinder diesel engine from a school bus. But that day doesn't need to hurry.
Have you considered faking your own death?
Somewhere, another Wheego is watching this video and it really appreciates how hard you tried to save it's bro/sis.
*Aging wheels makes bad pun and asks us not to leave*
Me: well...that's what i'm here for soooo.....
bye bye
@@raven4k998 i think you misunderstood, i'm here for the bad puns, not to leave
@@Dichuz91 I brought you back yay I saved the channel!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"I made a cell tower." Coffee came out my nose! Loved it.
I didn't read the word "coffee" for a second there and I thought you said you came out your nose... O_o
They look very much like the Winston 400Ah cells that a lot of DIY EV builders use. You will NOT like the price of them though.
Edit: Wikipedia says the car has a 260Ah pack, so the correct cells are the Winston WB-LYP260AHA. A bit cheaper at $327 each, but still a big investment.
Me, having no idea: "I'll just Google those...HOLY SHIT."
The car isn't worth 1/3 of what it would cost to replace the cells in the battery pack with those Winston cells.
@@thatguyoverthere531 I suspect only a few of the cells would need replacing (the bulged one is a prime suspect) but even 3-4 cells would be a significant part of the car's value.
@@ferrumignis Annoyingly with most battery packs, all the cells are matched up each other. So you'd are you'd have to buy a complete replacement otherwise the battery pack won't work right.
Also the other issue, we don't know that the Winston cells have the same specs as the cells in the wheego.
@@thatguyoverthere531 No cells are ever perfectly matched which is why batteries without cell balancing systems degrade in the first place. Putting some higher capacity new cells in won't restore the whole pack to as new capacity but it will still work fine.
"Watt's up.. I'm amped"
those puns were reVOLTing
Ohm i god.
Late to the party here but I laughed SO HARD at that frown in the beginning! That’s tremendous
"I made a cell tower.... please don't leave."
And thats when I left.
(Just kidding big guy, keep up the jokes you absolute gift to the universe)
You make my husband and I laugh. Your videos are our new favorites
These Cells look like Winston LiFeYPo4 Batteries. You could look into that if you havent already.
According to the last archived version of the Wheego Cars website, this battery pack is composed of 260Ah LiFePo4 cells (math checks out; 36 of them @3.2V produce a total of 29.952kW).
The only company that makes battery cells with these specifications seems to be indeed Winston, with the WB-LYP260AHA model; it sells for around $300 apiece, new. Oof.
You, sir, may have just saved the wheego project.
There are cheaper LiFePO4 cells available though, or even go Li-Ion and power it with a shitload of 18650s. So 115V/29.952kW on this pack, making an equivalent with 3.7V 18650 cells at 2500mAh each we need at least a 32s100p configuration. 32 batteries in series for ca. 115V (118), at least a hundred of these rows in parallel to archieve ca. 260Ah (250). So with that we're already looking at 3200 batteries, might be $2 per cell. That is still $6400 and an outrageous setup of batteries that even large car manufacturers struggle to keep working properly and reliably over years.
Not to mention the pain in the butt that will be to assemble, and add in like $2000 for battery holders, new or even custom BMS, charge controller, nickel strips, spot welding equipment.
He could use even cheaper batteries, let's go lead acid. That will have a much wider recharge
threshold, they will easily go flat and die if used in such a way. We need an external component to increase the gap between the charge voltage and recharge voltage, maybe hook up a programmable power supply inline or go with and a step converter on the pack itself, that we'd have to experiment with. But all that might require to replace the cars computer and subsequently gauge cluster, entire switchgear and wiring harness with custom made or specifically bought ICs in order to keep the car reliable and get acceptable accuracy on the readouts/tolerances.
@scsikrsk i mean he could start with replacing that one damaged cell
@@ccllvn A problem with 18650 cells is there non existant resistance against cold temperatures and there comparably small number of cycles (~800 for Liion, min 2000 with up to 8000 for LiFeYPo4)
7:50-7:55 is the best 5 seconds anywhere on youtube and nobody can change my mind on that. The Wheego may be dead but those puns gave me life.
".....and then I will have to figure out what to do with this whole dead car"
One word: Hayabusa.
Keep in mind this is a cheap Chinese car.....do you really want to make it go fast when the only real means of stopping it would be a prayer or an immovable object?
Go For It!! Stuff The BIGGEST Ninja motor in it and burn rubber until something Burst Into Flames!!!
See if you can get that Colin guy from England to help out?
@@BuzzinsPetRock78 Well, duh! Where's the fun otherwise?
@@worldtraveler930 I like your attitude.
That is what I keep saying. His subscribers will triple.
The thing that makes this channel great is that you actually show each step in super speed. Its increadibly satisfying
I cannot tell you how hard I laughed when you needed to get towed. Keep safe with the bloated batteries, and keep making amazing content 🎉
I know this is really late but having only just seen this I must say it. Your method of charging the cells left you with a wildly unbalanced pack and will result in cells being overcharged resulting in further bloating and premature cell death. Once you got them all to the same rough voltage you needed to put them ALL in parallel and charge until 3.6V and the current had dropped off to < 10mA, this would have guaranteed they were all at the same state of charge. The fact that the car thought it had a 60+% SOC confirms that this is the problem as SOC is estimated based on total pack voltage, for example, if 50% of your cells were lets say 70% SOC, and the other 50% were 50% SOC, the total voltage would give you that 60% SOC reading. The problem here is once you put it onto a charger at 300+V, it's going to overcharge those cells that are charged higher. BMSs should limit this, but only to the extent of preventing a fire by shutting down the entire pack should the cells go too far out of spec (as it did when it discharged too far). And before anyone states "the BMS will level them", sorry, but most BMSs on large packs like this even if they have bleed resistors to do this (as this is the cheapest and simplest way), can't do enough levelling in time when they are so far out. BMS levelling is to correct for minor discrepancies due to internal resistance difference between cells, the pack is still expected to be very close to level when it's assembled, attempting to use the BMS to level a pack that is so wildly out of balance is like trying to stop your boat from sinking with an eyedropper.
"I'm amped, made a cell tower"
What a great line. This is the kind of comedy I keep coming back to your channel for
PS I like your old intro better
8 bolts holding the battery pack in place better then six means the battery pack is held in better then he thought
Your ingenuity, stamina, and patience are amazing.
Electric cars will suffer from this obsolescence as long as batteries cannot be replaced easily and at a fair price.
I hope makers realize this and move toward a design that is more like power tools...just drop the battery pack and replace it.
Owners could join a co-op to exchange packs to end wait time to charge, end being stuck with a dead pack for the failure of a single or few cells, and with a wide spread network of exchange stations = no range anxiety on long trips.
I would think this could very easily come to the commercial truck business.
Just my 2 cents
As always, you amuse and inform AND most importantly? You proved a man CAN work on cars in pajama bottoms. I feel empowered and vindicated, thank you!
Sounds like its time for a “mad scientist” style Prius battery conversion! Or ... a “midnight run” to the local golf course to liberate many, many golf cart batteries! Forget Santa! Where is the Energizer Bunny when you need him?
Lmao dude this is one of the best I've seen
It was good to see it driving again... for a while.
I don't suppose there is another (cheap) Wheego battery pack that you could obtain second hand? Maybe even a part one to replace the weak cells.
Alternatively, are there different battery types that you could substitute for the originals? Different charging and controls would be needed, but on balance later batteries should at least have a higher charge capacity for their weight.
I love this channel. Came here from Tavarish and while I like his channel it’s just so refreshing that you don’t have thousand cuts and loud music. Please never change the pace of your videos.
We missed ya! You got a haircut at 9mins - see we're observant!
28*120*173mm is a standard format for large format lithium iron phosphate cells. They're pretty expensive, but you can definitely buy them.
somehow the packs look larger than the entire car.
wait till he makes the new battery pack just wait and see that's going to be so good to watch
Tears are wheegoing down my face
Ah shit, here wheego again.
I love the way you edit the repetitive portions; it’s so satisfying to watch! I’m sure it must be a pain to do, so thank you for taking the time :)
“This battery has ballooned a bit, I hope that’s not a problem” yeah if a lithium battery expands that is a very bad sign and that may mean that the single cell was over charged, this could be a huge fire hazard.
I think you should at least check it thoroughly and I would contact wheego if I was you.
Anyway great job fixing up that hilarious little car, I love your content!
Introvert Airways it doesn’t always mean it’s been overcharged. When the internal formula gets damaged from misuse (like almost dying) oxygen forms and causes the cell to puff.
99thPeanut o didn’t mean that it is always overcharged but I thought it was this time because it had not been bulged before he charged it.
Introvert Airways ah I got you. That makes sense.
LiFePO4 batteries are much safer than Lithium Ion.
Not a good sign. With the voltage that low, good chance a cell has gone into reverse. You could possibly charge each cell separately with a hobbyist battery workstation like a PowerLab8. But as you say, getting cells are problematic. Most economical... source Nissan Leaf cells. You may have to reprogram charger and BMS, but they should work (this is what I replaced the bad pack in my Vectrix VX-1 Scooter with)
"please don't leave" - were never leaving, the puns are what we live for!
So much respect for you for knowing/learning about that battery pack. We're light-years ahead of that chemistry and energy density, but knowing about how the early EVs are built is fascinating!
and this is why I never let my ev go that long without being plugged in for a charging because I am not interested in that dead battery pack hell
i remember you said a while back you knew of another Wheego that died because of issues in the motor...maybe somehow you could find the battery from that one for yours? long shot but maybe an idea...
10:25 I don't think they cut away the floor just for the upright portion of the battery, that just looks like the access hatch for the area where the gas engine would normally be.
Whatever you do, if you keep any of those cells, I highly recommend also keeping a fire extinguisher close to hand at all times.
I made a DIY battery test rig for the used LiFePO4 batteries I bought for my RV.
It was fairly crude, using an Arduino, a contactor, and a properly sized resistor as a load.
I then charged the battery to test to full using a bench power supply.
The code on the arduino measured the voltage once a minute, and opened the contactor when the cell got to my discharged voltage.
I then plotted the resulting time vs voltage graph, and compared it to what I could find for a discharge graph of common LiFePO4 batteries, as well as calculated the Ah capacity of each cell.
I think it worked pretty well to test them.
That cell tower joke made me die laughing, keep up the good work and your videos are fantastic.
Well that was the most interesting thing Ive seen on UA-cam for a long time.. THANK YOU.
Man asks me not to leave after the content I'm here for
Someone's been watching an Irish mechanic's videos.
Really like the stopmotion!
Sounds like Blarney to me.
Heck yeah I've been waiting for a video, I always look forward to your videos.
The LiFePO4 cells I have are also 3.2 nominal, but if you look at their charge/discharge curves and other data (and also what I've tested on them myself), at a resting voltage of 3.2v they basically don't have anything left. Voltage isn't a great way to measure state of charge with them because they have such a narrow voltage range (which is why cars typically use coulomb counting), but, my cells are typically 90% full at a resting voltage of 3.4v and have about 20% at 3.20v.
So if they were sagging back to 3.20 to 3.24, either they hadn't been charged nearly enough, or they had some fairly substantial self-discharge issues.
You need to do a video of opening one of those battery packs. My guess is it contains lots of AA batteries. Maybe you could get Ryobi to sponsor your channel and you could power it by their batteries. :D
Not as silly as it sounds. The Tesla Model S uses over 7000 standard 18650 laptop cells which are probably the same as in the Ryobi packs (ten in a 4AH 20V pack).
All that work accomplished in 20 minutes. Amazing. Please don't give up on the Weego, this is EV gold content.
20:35 where did you get that "my other car is a trabant" sticker?
Yeah, I need that for my Lancer, it would be accurate :)
The battery pack construction description interspersed with it's deconstruction is Very Good
This. Is. How. You. Properly. Treat. Batteries. Kudos on the engaging editing. The one-liners... erhm.. Well, that was one good one!
That bloated battery should be a cause for concern. If it ruptures you'll have a nice, toxic mess on your hands.
LiFePO4 is generally considered nontoxic. The organic electrolyte, however, can be a mess. You'll need the MSDS for that exact battery to know for sure. (however, there's usually very little electrolyte in there.)
Li Fe po4 is not dangerous at all . But it needs to be replaced.
Your love for this deliciously dreadful vehicle is wonderful to see.
Yes, that swollen pack may be a show-stopper. Those of us in the RC flying community are well aware of the death signs in lithium batteries. Forcing a sick pack is asking for a really exciting fire. Best of luck, however... the Wheego has its charms, and I’d love to see it healthy again. Regards from St. Charles -
LiPo is not like LiFePo4. A bloated LiFePo4 is common, manufacturers of the cells even recommend you put them under clamping pressure to prevent the unavoidable bloat they all go through when under high discharge loads, like in an EV. Also, a LiFePo4 does not rupture violently like your hobby LiPo, or catch on fire, they are a very safe cell. There are several videos on YT doing destructive worst case tests (crush, puncture, over charge, over discharge, dead short circuit, and blowtorch tests) on these cells that show how safe they are.
Sorry for your loss. I hope the Wheego parts make for some interesting future projects!
"I made a cell tower... Please don't leave." That my friend made me want to stay even more.
I work with automotive battery packs. I know some chemistries are more robust than others, but in our testing if the cell voltage is below 2.8V, serious damage can happen, most notably lithium plating which damages the cells in ways that cannot be reversed by charging. When you said your most charged cells were 1.3V I immediately thought the whole thing wouldn't work. Good luck, love the video, and love the Wheego!
That ballooning cell would be only one that would give me heartburn haha
I'm scared to think of what a Spicy Pillow (as they say on Reddit) of that size would be like.
And here we are back to the real reason they named it Wheego. You yell "whee" on the occasions you get the car to go. Then you yell "whee" after you finally get back home after your car broke down. Reminds one of the wonderful "Yugo" cars of the past that would break down and then off "you go" walking home. Still, you've learned allot from your efforts and taught us allot and gave us allot of enjoyment in watching you do it while adding in your great sense of humor. Kudos!
Next video: Wheego is officially Wheegone.
MY SIDES LMAO
Love your way of editing! Great video
3 puns in as many seconds???? That was pretty good there.
I like how you somehow ended up with a car that makes the Trabant look like a solid, stand-up automobile.
Swap out your BMS for an Orion BMS it allows chademo DC fast charge
A few thoughts: I appreciate the large amount of time it took for you to do this video for my entertainment! Second: I say you do an engine swap on the Wheego. Make an electric car run on a regular gas engine! Third: Keep up the good work! My only wish for you is to make more videos. I love your channel.
If your lift has a manual lowering lever right on the valve, you can run the pump and use that valve to throttle it.
If you have a fancy electronic lowering button, then just ignore me.
Just a note about your lift--I noticed that one side lifts first, and your safety locks are not engaging at the same time. The two balance cables need to be checked and tightened so that both sides operate simultaneously.......... (I have the same style lift)
Perhaps adapt a replacement Honda Insight battery pack?
At 17:30 I've felt so happy, I thought I would have teared my eyes if there were heartwarming music in the background. You can see that Robert really loves his Wheego! Sure, its perfomance is laughable, the build quality is unreal bad, but as a car it has its loving charm like every other.
Mind you, if you thought the battery pack was shoddily made. This is the US made part of the car.
Considering the battery pack is effectively a prototype it isn't too bad.
The BMS seems to be the fault. Letting the battery discharge so low.
I love American products, but the budget on my car was higher and I respect it. I have a BMW i3.
@@TheKaisarwilhelm To be fair, that's a low bar. Your average toaster has a higher development budget than the Wheego.
I love sped up disassembly edits!
It's now the Whee-No-Go
Wheegone!
You can buy LiFePo4 battery cells anywhere. Finding exact dimensions may be problem and new ones will be way smaller with same rated capacity, but other than that ... just look at aliexpress or amazon.
Edit: Just looked at aliexpress and you can have 200Ah/3.2v batteries for around 100USD. So depending on how much you want to spend on this, you could rebuild the whole battery for under 4k (way more than the weego is worth most likely).
when you charged 4 batteries in parallel you probably killed the rest of your cells. dead cells could have the same voltage as a good cells but the capacity is lower and to make it worse bad cells get so much hotter and puffier under load and could catch fire. don’t charge batteries in banks like that if they could be bad. and don’t put any puffy batteries back that’s a good sign it’s very dead. take the batteries out and test the capacity of each individually before putting them back in. batteries need to be pared with similar capacities if in parallel.
Trickle charging batteries in parallel won't kill them like you describe, it's charging or discharging them in series (without a BMS) that will do that. He did both, though, so it's possible some extra cells were damaged.
Nice presentation. Clear visuals, good humour, informative, well paced. I think I became a fan on my first viewing!
im wondering why one of the cell's is yellow, and the rest green still
He said the pack had been serviced under warranty before he bought the car, that one could have been replaced
It’s casual Friday in the shop - pajamas are now permitted and even encouraged. Also - [cuts away] “ok it’s been two weeks” [still wearing the same shirt] 😜
What’s up? I’m amped! I made a cell tower [spits coffee] 🤣
PS: my OCD loves the perfectly edited disassembly and reassembly montages. More please.
7:52 fml 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 dad jokes never get old. The worse the better
That was ANOTHER electrifying video - I loved it, except that I am sad for you. About to watch the follow-up video in a most HOPEFUL frame of mind. Seriously, I love see you take stuff apart!!!
I see that you too have attended the ST octane academy.
This video was electrifying! Shockingly entertaining!
As a person who has taken a Hybrid Battery Safety course, this entire video made me nervous and on edge. These battery packs are incredibly dangerous and can be fatal if you are not careful. They are very dangerous to work on if you are not careful and know what you are doing.
All that being said, I am bummed that the Wheego appears to be dead :(
In what way? There are a lot of people who get off on telling everyone how dangerous things are. You need to be more specific before you are convincing. Of course there are some dangers but they aren’t really too hard to avoid with a bit of knowledge.
@@michaelfisher9671 In the way that they can deliver a lethal shock if not handled with proper care. The systems I dealt with had safety features like a high voltage interlock loop that is supposed to disengage the contactors when disconnected, but a system like on the Wheego looks a little...Ehhh. Even with safety features, there is a lot of potential energy stored in these packs and touching the wrong thing, even by accident, can be dangerous.
@@anthonyspecf So what you are saying is high voltage can be dangerous? Thanks for that.
Your wonderful effects made me smile. I wish I could do that one day.
How is it 19 seconds after upload and I see comments from 11 hours ago
This confuses me too..
can confirm. Watched this via patreon last night.
1) Great editing...like super good.
2) getting a strong Will Forte vibe from you. You are funny and this was interesting to watch.
3) Well done
Have you fixed your Trabant speedometer cable?? That’s why it keeps popping out of reverse..
Just for a minute I thought you had done it, oh well nothing ventured nothing gained, Still made a very watchable and very enjoyable episode.
17:22 "I'm weary" - No, you're _leery_ (worried, cautious, suspicious)
Oh, I assumed he must have said wary and my cellphone speaker was just messing with me.
Your videos just keep getting better and better.
Bad timing commercial...bad...
"Here's the battery pack!"
-shows 'battery' pack
Ad:
Auto parts ad for batteries is appropriate
Me:
Associates ick battery from Wheeeee!Go with advertiser. Now I am repulsed to buy batteries from them.
(Edit for spelling)
That grumpycat frown in the first shot is 👌
Wheego to the scrapyard :(
So sad! I was so much rooting for a success.
Don't get me wrong! I like these videos and it's not like I wish this series to end!
Very enjoyable video, this guy is a natural communicator and funny!