pretty smoooth...hmmm'ye...perhaps i ought a brownose atte(m)pt, like a "wow, maggy..you're sO smArt..howw..?.whYyy..didn't i sniff that out?", or some such a$$$mooching...but, legit, of course.
I love how you approach every movie you review with an open mind and a desire to treat it with respect with your thoughts. With nearly every critic, you can feel that they may let preconceived notions take over, and may also enjoy trashing movies. Even when you give very VERY negative reviews like this, you bring a lot of heart and depth to your review. I just wanna say I appreciate it and I wish more critics were like you.
@@chrisjfox8715 right. Deepfocuslens (sorry, don’t know her name) finds a way to be constructive and still has a passion for discussing the movie even if it’s not good. It’s really refreshing
You're the only film review channel that I'm subscribed to. Instead of being reactionary like most "film review" channels you give actual thought to the film and get dreamy with it and make fantastic analogies. It's so refreshing to see
She did approach from a different perspective than other channels, I'll give you that. But she wanted Harley and Joker to be like from the Batman cartoon. The most bitter thing about this sequel is that Arthur doesn't get a happily ever after ending. But he's still sympathetic.
Yeah, it's almost like she has emotions and opinions, and not just a vendetta against (or in favour of) ""woke Hollywood"". She's almost like a real movie critic.
It's not really about Joker, it's about the idea, the fantasy of The Joker. The audience that longs for that type of Joker origin story is just like Lee, they get disappointed when the fantasy isn't real. There is an important message here about what the audience craves. It's a bold and multilayered masterpiece.
@@elevenseven-yq4vu I think Todd Philips tried to tell us already in Joker but I missed it. I only got it with the second one. Damien Walter is using the term anti-fantasy and I would like to maybe append "anti-escapism" to that. It's really important that we understand this message, we simply cannot go on doing things the way we have so far. We're addicted and we don't seem to be able to kick the habit. Escapism and fantasy feel fantastic when we suffer but sometimes we just have to wake up and face reality. Only then can we address the problems that make us suffer in the first place. Instead there are those who keep upping the ante and keep selling us the same dream or some other, even bigger. Lying to us that "the old dream is fake, I'm telling you the truth" dragging us into the vortex and the next level of our own hell.
@@elevenseven-yq4vu Thank you. I hope with time the pendulum will swing back on this one. It's clearly underrated and misunderstood - a reaction which of course now is a part of the work. For me, I think I will use this film as a diagnostic on reviewers.
@@b1thearchitect401It will literally destroy the original for you. I've watch the Matrix 1000 times, and never seen Matrix 4 because the Last Jedi taught me Hollywood hates millennials and will destroy any ounce of nostalgia you had left.
This was the best critique of Joker 2 I've seen to date; none of the sensationalist and reationary takes flooding social media. A well thought-out dissection, while respecting the film makers. Kudos!
I liked it a lot. I think it will be misunderstood by many people who liked the first movie. I love the first movie. But this really worked for me. I think it is much more ambitious than the first movie. It doesn’t succeed 100% of the time. But it works enough to be really good. I disagree that it’s not confident. I think it is very confident. It takes big risks. It explores the character more deeply and it’s much darker. The criticism that it doesn’t flesh out the love enough misses the point. It’s not a love story. It’s a story about a shared delusion. A delusion that bursts and we get to see what’s underneath. It’s very bold. It works.
Yeah, I agree with you. I really like this movie and think that most of the criticism is missing the point. A lot of points I’ve seen said that this movie isn’t as bombastic as the first one, and that it’s snipes or destroys the jokers character development, but in actuality, it fleshes it out and creates a real human with history out of a character. I think that the movie was very on the nose with Arthur saying that literally no one cares about him unless he is the big bad psychopathic, mass murdering joker. And, in my opinion, he’s ultimately right. People want a spectacle, a larger than life figure that transcends the confines of what it means to be human, but fail to see that the joker is the result of a human.
@@gekko444 agreed. He makes clear that he doesn’t know who he is. The knock knock joke at the end kind of sums it up. Everyone just wants the Joker. But that comes at a cost to a real human being. It’s much deeper and more nuanced than people give it credit for. And I guess the reaction of many viewers proves Arthur Fleck’s point perfectly. All they wanted was more joker.
That would have been awesome in the courtroom! Joker jumping on the table and shouting, "Gentleman! Let's broaden our minds! Laurence?" And then some random guy could rise from the audience with a boom box that plays their rendition of Prince's Partyman.
Disagree! I really loved The direction this movie took and ended the character's story arc in a way that wasn't fan service and I definitely was entertained. Bravo!
And he actually really liked it, and thought it was better than the first one, Simon Mayo agreed also. I don’t think it’s THAT good, but I did enjoy it quite a bit.
@@LovicideSo does Maggie, she is just very upfront about doing it. It seems like Kermode expects his viewers to know that is the case with him too. What else do you expect from a reviewer? To channel nothing from their persona and attempt to be completely objective? Watch IGN Kermode and Maggie are the gold standard, and I find myself disagreeing with them both half the time!
I'm surprised at how much I loved this film based on what I'd heard about it and the reaction it was getting. For me it's all about Arthur finally getting the love and attention he'd always wanted, from the public and personified in Harley, and trying to play into the Joker character because of that but eventually coming to realise that's not who he was or what he wanted and having the people that claimed to love and care about him turn their back on him. Its tragic and I thought it was a very interesting place to take things that I didn't expect. The musical aspect really worked for me as a fun way to explore how the characters were feeling as the film progressed but also to heighten that sense of love and magic Arthur was feeling and make it all the more powerful when she's leaving him and he's begging her to stop singing. The idea of the shadow of your actions eventually becoming more powerful than you and causing harm you didn't intend is definitely one of the most ambitious ideas a comic book film has tackled and for me it worked completely. I'm sad that it seems I'm one of the few.
People are just straight up stupid. The majority of the mind controlled sheep should be prohibited to attend cinema theatre. The music is what this illiterates hate the most, let me tell you something to open your frigid mainstream minds, the music is the way they communicate. People with mental illness, not you jerks, you're just jerks eating popcorns, people with mental illness have a vast array of forms to communicate, it's their expression, some sing some gesticulate some use different ways than just normally speaking to communicate and express themselves amongs themselves or to themselves.
Am I the only one who is thinking that Joker 2 is an allegory for the public's relationship with the media? In this case, folie a deux is THE psychosis ( shared by the public and the SNS or maybe even Hollywood) of our times. Arthur Flek is the influencer wearing the media mask which has become stuck to his face; an old trope but relevant now. Harlleen (Gaga) is a representation of the public (not the only the one here: the prisoner who kills Arthur is also a contender). The parasocial and destructive relationship that Harleen develops with Arthur is a love affair that is played out through the duets and other love songs. In a way, it shows a history of SNS. 'What the world needs now' is the early days of WhatsApp or UA-cam when it seemed like people were able to form wonderous connections with each other. 'I've got the world on a string' is the influencers psychopathy coming out. Note, also, that Harlleen loses interest in Arthur when he shows his remorse and humanity. Like a public baying for blood, she wants the murdurous violence of the amphitheater. She is not just a representive of the public as she also reminds me of certain political strategists who would make 'a mountain' out of the chaos and mayhem. Yet, Arthur is not a characture of an influencer. He tries to escape his role. When he is fantasizing about his literal escape in the courtroom and has gun, I half expected him to go Sid Vicisous and kill the jury, but no, he kills the cameramen: the media avatar. On top of this, the film's genre is the musical. A form which is often seen as pure escapism (note the musicals from which the songs are taken); who wants reality when life is grim. The twist here is that our modern escapism for many is 'doomscrolling' and shock jock influencers. Hence, Joker 2 is a muscial, but a grim and twisted musical to match our modern age. This is what we watch for entertainment. I'm not a massive fan of allegories. 'Nope' was another movie purportedly about the media. J2 seems more subtle and less on the nose.
@@fewwiggle social networking services. I'm just using it as a catch-all for online platforms which can enable parasocial relationships such as WhatsApp and UA-cam.
Joker shooting Murray scared the hell out of Hollywood/international media complex/elites. For the average person it was just a grizzly murder scene. For them, it was like watching someone shoot your dog. Talk show hosts are important pets for "white slavers" and in California and "policy makers" in Washington. Showing how vulnerable the media's consent manufacturing machine is was a huge no no. So the joker had to be raped and ritually sacrificed.
@@ksander1779 It's not a takedown. Arthur is still likable. I still feel bad for him. It's like a Greek tragedy where bad things happen to good people even when they don't deserve it.
I absolutely hate sequels that destroy all the character development that was built up in the first film. At the end of the first film, Arthur Fleck died and Joker was born. This film completely undoes that.
@@MilleniumKage yeah. There’s literally nothing worthwhile in either case is there. The fact that the Joker moniker was linked to the movie annoyed the director from the beginning.
This sounds like Ari Aster's 'Beau Is Afraid'. Sometimes too much creative freedom is a bad thing. But still gonna see it as I'm intrigued by your insightful review.
Started watching your reviews about two months ago and love your input. I like how you explain in depth what you like about a film or what you don’t like. Very articulate in your explanations. Waiting for your review of Smile 2. I will wait for that before I decide to see it.
You took the thoughts right out of my mind. I really love the beginning and thought everything would run smoothly, then it gets pretty repetitive especially with the musical numbers. I think all of the elements are in place, but the script. It almost feels like an unfinished draft that didn’t get properly developed and lost its way towards the end. It could’ve been so good.
I saw the film today and it wasn‘t what I expected. The tragic figure of Fleck is very convincing though and I always love Phoenix. Lady Gaga was very good too. She is the „abuser“ here in a way, because she seemed to understand him, but wasn’t able to. She wanted him to do things she didn‘t dare to do by herself. She wanted to belong and to be seen and feared. I liked the movie, but it was very sad. Gleeson is as brilliant as always. The songs didn‘t bother me at all.
This was in production before Gunn took over, and the last one was such a hit there’s no way they were canceling it. I’m skeptical on DC, but the new new stuff so far has been good.
@@TheMattyNation What's wild is I really enjoyed Gunn's The Suicide Squad, somewhat enjoyed his Peacemaker show, and don't really have total confidence in the slate he's announced. But I will wait for judgement until seeing his Superman/Authority based DC verse. Then on the other hand, I somehow enjoyed both Black Adam & Shazam Fury of the Gods, but never expected to.
@@ferrarriohh I enjoyed Peacemaker a lot more than The Suicide Squad. I really liked Black Adam (best live-action Dr. Fate ever btw); but Fury of the Gods was rather bad to me.
I loved this movie. Very beautifully filmed, with excellent performances and production design. About the story. It's more basic. It is more focused on emotions, which is reflected in the performances and the singing part. I loved the way they simply went with the original vocals without arrangements and with just a few instruments to accompany in the background. I accept this film for what it is, an even greater rarity than the last, imperfect, to be sure, but fascinating and captivating. I noticed the lack of tension, but i also think the point is not in if Arthur wins the trial or not, but rather in be with him and share his feelings through the music. Of course that doesn't excuse the irregular rythim of the movie, but i think it works most of the time.
Joker = Falling Down I wouldn't say it was a movie that appealed to bleeding hearts. It appeals to people who have been broken by society and fight back. My favorite thing about Joker was it made the villain human. Too often villains are just portrayed as pure evil. It's what our government does to other countries to get our support to attack them. And THAT is pure evil. I love movies that make villains human. Because there's always a reason people do bad things.
So Todd using "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy" for the first Joker, means he used "New York, New York" for the 2nd? Maybe we'll get "Joker 3" "Silence"...
I know this is a weird comparison, but Joker 2 reminded me so much of the Seinfeld series finale. It pointlessly rehashes everything using a court trial as a plot device, and doesn’t do anything remotely interesting with it
At least the Seinfeld finale served the purpose of bringing back a variety of characters and saying goodbye. This needed to build on a single film in some sort of relatable way
@@richtes yeah that’s fair. But the Seinfeld finale also had contempt for its audience, just like Joker 2. Larry David and Todd Phillips created unlikable, but interesting characters, and then criticizes the audience for having been invested in them
@@123rockfan Larry David seems pretty unlikable himself. Don’t get the business model. I got a call today (Fri) from an auto shop saying thanks for bringing in on Tuesday for the annual inspection. At least some people appreciate being paid and want you to return.
I liked the first Joker a lot. I think it's a genuinely great movie. But i don't think it has much to say about society or mental illness or comic book movies or crime or anything. It's just a good character study of a depressed, mentally ill man (who isn't smart). So it's not really even about the Joker. But still a solid film.
I absolutely agree with your view. The name of the movie could easily be Poker, Goker, Doker or whatever. It has virtually nothing to do with any big things as you mention and not even with the comics. The first Joker was like 6/10 ok to see kind of film. Only reason to see the sequel would had been the story. Since that doesn't matter anymore there's nothing to see for me.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree with so much of this that it’s insane. Some of this I couldn’t even articulate, but you saying it for me is so gratifying. Thank you.
2:48 The fact that people are ripping it into shreds is funny. The first one holds a special place in my heart, yet when I went into a fan first screening of this film the audience didn’t know how to feel. Some clapped; some groaned. I’m looking forward to seeing it again to find out if it changes my point of view of the film. All I’ll say is objectively this film is a bit of a mess.
You missed the mark on this review. Harley wasn't in love with Arthur, but with Joker and as he began separating from the trauma-produced character he's embodied. This film is deeper than you're seeing.
I'm guilty of this too, but I feel like anytime a piece of media does poorly, everyone needs to bandwagon solely on the negatives. Like I get it... No one likes to feel like they wasted their money on a poor experience, but we need to also address the positive aspects of underperforming media too. In order to make any prequel/sequel/etc. better, the filmmakers need to know their areas of weakness AND strengths. For example, as this UA-camr pointed out, even though Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix's characters were written poorly, their (the actors, themselves) presence was still felt throughout the movie. Excellent review, btw👍
i think joaquin phoenix version of joker was doomed from begining . the joker is crazy, mass murderer who just wants to watch world burn. but joaquin's joker was a normal person who punched back after being cornered for a long time, he never killed senselessly but only who treated him badly. and this i think is against the very idea of joker. joker dont need reason to kill, there's no meaning to his actions , no trauma behind his violence, nothing in his past pulling strings. he simply is the JOKER. and thats what why he scares and appeals us
I would say that you misunderstand most modern versions of the Joker. The Joker wants to watch the world burn because he thinks it's absurd that people believe and operate as if it's not already burning. We act like things matter, like people matter and yet our collective actions show otherwise. As a whole, people bring harm to everyone and everything around them and we'll never escape that predisposition. All it takes is one bad day to make a person realize that. That's why he has been written as having such a bond with Batman for at least the last, I dunno, 40 years? He sees Batman as someone who realized the absurdity but then actually went insane in thinking that he could change it. To the Joker, we're all insane for pretending that we're not selfish, impulsive animals; and funny enough, Todd Phillips' Arthur Fleck is a victim of our insanity, while his Joker is a product of it.
I appreciate your review! Very well spoken. I recommend putting taboos of trailer clips in between talking just to break it up a bit and making a thumb nail because I want to see your reviews at the top of everyone’s recommendation page
I just finished watching the movie. I thought it was decent but could have been a lot better. Great review. Nice to have a new movie review channel to add to my rotation
I really enjoyed this film ! It feels again it’s a mirror to society. I think there’s been so much unfair negative responses. Joaquin gives possibly his greatest performance in this second film. My jaw was on the floor witnessing even to embarrassment how far he went. There’s a lot to like here. I had so much fun with the musical elements once I got what they were going for. I liked this film more than the first. It’s an exploration of Arthur and in the script provided a lot more substance than the first. No one seems to like it bit f*** that ! I loved it and it’s a shame the performances and movie will it be honored. The miss fire is people not appreciating what they did here. In my opinion.
Joker Folio à Duex is fire! The fact that Arthur was told before it happened that he was getting duped when firing his attorney and it played out was beautiful!
My husband liked it better than the first part. It criticizes the prison regime harshly. And they didn‘t glorify violence. The person he was is even more tangible in this second part and I love the actors.
"people not appreciating what they did here" Sure, blame the 'people' -- regardless, isn't it a problem if the 'people' don't understand your "sophisticated" and "super deep" movie?
@@claranimmer7349 yes ! This second film showed the failed correctional system. These things these societies failed Arthur. It’s putting a mirror to society. Excellent acting performances. And I loved the musical aspects.
Joker: Folie a Deux is baffling, bizarre and I kind of loved it? What a complete troll of a movie and one that is actively trying to get you to hate it and piss you off. I mean this in the best possible way. It's been a few hours and I can't stop thinking about it, and I'm shocked this got the green light and was released as is at the price tag it's reported as. What a mean-spirited movie. Complete misery porn in a way that gets you lost in its despair. It's the cinematic equivalent of having a really sad wank and the only thing you have to clean yourself off of is your DC Comics blanket from when you were younger.
I loved the first Joker… I found it devastating and beautiful but as for the second … firstly I have no interest in it being a musical. Secondly I really dislike Lady Gaga … and I can’t get past that and thirdly I feel like Phoenix must have literally disappeared up his own backside to have honestly not had the foresight to see this was NOT a good idea.
Joaquin Phoenix is a fantastic actor but never forget he's just as much apart of the woke liberal crowd as any of them. He knew full well what he was getting into, he's not stupid
@@DrewDragoonit’s not that he’s “”woke”” he got fucking paid dumbass. Most actors dont give a shit whatever they say, they just want the money that comes with it.
Here it is the other way around: She is twisted, wicked smart but crazy, and Arthur is vulnerable enough to be manipulated by her into yet another delusion of grandeur, thereby botching any chance he might (or might not) ever have had of turning an imminent death sentence into a somewhat more lenient security imprisonment life sentence including psychiatric treatment by way of an empathic, open-minded (questionable in Gotham, but theoretically possible) jury. Joker 2 is as dark as it gets, and the switcheroo of the Ms. Quinn - (Not quite) Joker dynamic is very well executed in this movie.
I love your reviews! I completely agree about this film. I think one of the ressons i was so excited about this film was because i was so curious about how they were going to expand the story since the brilliance of the first film was that you didnt know what was real and what wasnt... or if any of it actually happened at all. I was really hoping they kept to that. My one hope was that those unanswered questions didnt get answered. .... then thats all folie did
I do think Todd Phillips gets a lot of flack from critics because he isn't an indie darling who finally made it. He's a guy who made popular frat boy comedies, then leap frogged into getting Oscar Noms. If Greta Gerwig had made Joker and made it the exact same way. The same critics bashing Todd would have loved Joker and praised it.
Bruh the reason Joker is the way it is (a mid movie, with a good performance) is because Todd Phillips directed it. If it had a better director it most likely would have been a better movie
Couldn’t be more wrong. Take a look at the careers of directors like Jerry Zucker, or Chris and Paul Weitz. Jerry Zucker, as part of the Zucker Brothers directing duo, went from making absurd comedy spoof movies, like Airplane, Hot Shots, and the Naked Gun movies to making Ghost, a beloved four-quadrant movie heavy on the romance drama, but also incorporating elements of horror and comedy that was a major hit. Chris and Paul Weitz went from making American Pie movies to making About a Boy, an adaptation of a book about a lonely, womanizing jerk who makes a very unlikely friend in a bullied 14 year old boy, changing both of their lives for the better. That movie has become a modern day classic. This is all to say Todd Phillips is getting flack because he made a terrible movie, not because he made a film that’s different than his previous film.
Thanks for the review. I personally love the acting, the mood and the cinematography so much that it was worth my time and money. I felt there were two story lines that could have made this a great film. There seemed to be a building tension between who Arthur was as his identity. On the one side you had him wanting to reject all of the people sensationalizing the Joker character and his lawyer wanting him to remind him that he's Arthur and recognize that Joker was a dual personality that came from trauma. On that side, it would be a triumph for him to recover his sense of self-identity and become Arthur again. On the other side you have Harley who has fallen in love with the Joker character and she's wanting to pull him into becoming that persona. I wish they had developed this tension a lot more and given it some satisfying conclusion. It seems (spoiler) that when he just abruptly rejects the Joker persona before his closing argument, it's just a let-down without a satisfying resolution of the tension. The other direction I thought the movie was going was that he was oppressed throughout the film and beaten by the guards and put down by the media. I thought there's going to be some satisfying comeback where he becomes this powerful character with the help of Harley and gets revenge on everyone who hurt him. In the end, the film just seems to be saying that there's oppression in the world and people are heartless and he will always be a victim. It was pretty depressing to see his story end that way. It was as though we went back to his victimization in the first scene in the first film and realizing he'll always be in that situation and there's nothing he can do to gain power over it. It was a very unsatisfying conclusion.
It was indeed very tragic, the entire story of Arthur Fleck as it played out over the course of Joker and Joker 2. The way I see it, these movies are only in part about Arthur Fleck's ultimate demise, but even more so about the ultimate triumph of Gotham City's heart of darkness within its citizens' souls. All of them took advantage of Arthur in their own way. Joker/Joker 2 is the first ever Gotham City tale - that I know of - told not from the perspective from a hero, villain, or anti-hero, but from the bottom, from an average person born into outsider circumstances. Gotham City ground him down. That's a depressing tale to tell, but a daring one. Because THIS Gotham City tale is holding up a mirror to our own society, by cutting away larger-than-life stand-in figures of authority and responsibility such as Bruce Wayne / The Batman or any supervillains to push the blame onto for everything that is wrong in society. And when you peel that back, the questions remain: Is our society so much different from Gotham's, and what is our own role in shaping it that way? This is the one DC story that dares to go that far, the one where escapism doesn't triumph in the end, the one that takes the society of its own world to a more consistent and realistic conclusion. To me, it is a great depiction of Gotham City up from the bottom rather than from high above out of its manors, penthouses, skyscrapers and spires.
I just saw it just left theater. Ppl really overacting man. The musical parts weren't even that bad some parts weren't necessary but because GaGa is in the movie obviously her singing def helps. But the ending did feel not opened ended but it felt like it went no where but overall the movie was fine ,but in actuality looking at it in prospective you could have just made this one whole long 4hr movie a sequel wasn't need like if this movie was apart of the first joker then cut out some of musical parts it would be more effective. But you still would get a empty feeling at the end like aww I sat through 4 hrs just for that? But it is what it is. Decent movie first one still better.
I’ve watched 2 of your review the last 2 days, this one and Megalopolis. I haven’t seen either myself. It’s strange though because although you were generally enthusiastic about Megalopolis your review, to me, made it sound a confusing mess, whereas with Joker 2 your review was generally negative but you’ve actually made it sound like a chaotically fascinating film.
I didn't watch Megalopolis, but I did watch Joker 2. The problem is that most people expect good things to happen to good characters and bad things to bad characters. Joker 2 is like a Greek tragedy. We feel sad and angry on Arthur's behalf for what happens to him.
Joaquin Phoenix is always a sight to see. I still think The Master is his best performance! He carried the first film for me, otherwise it would have been an average soft Taxi Driver remake. I'll go into this one with low expectations. Yeah its always a shame to see art without confidence, even if its not good, go all in! Love hearing your opinions! Hope you're doing well and love your photography work! ☺👍
Thanks, this was relaxing to the brain. I think this is the first time I see an intelligent channel specially about movies and reviews. As a DC nerd, I don't like how DC fails with the many character they have, but the Batman branch can produce very interesting things. Again as a DC nerd, no matter how good or bad, one character can't live without the other. If it had to have a sequel, the misfiring "for me" is how slowly it connects to it all (for a sequel).
When i heard the sequel was going to be a musical, i knew the movie was going to be divisive. Philips was swinging for the fences; either he'd hit a home run or strike out.
When you first hear that it's a musical, you think it's going to be a frivolous unserious movie. But that is far from the truth. There are no "pop" or "contemporary songs." Arthur retreats into his imagination to cope with reality.
For my tastes, the first Joker film was far too derivative of better films I'd rather watch. That said, I was looking forward to the sequel taking a hard left turn. The ambition looked good on paper but unfortunately Todd Phillips remains a hack and can only do so much outside of his skill set.
I'm loathed to watch this on principle. I really respected the filmmakers saying there wouldn't be a sequel back in 2019. Yet, surprise surprise, here we are. Greed wins the day. Of course it does! I'm hoping this film dies a death.
@lepersonnage371 I wish I still had your kind of optimism. Bear in mind the director's filmography prior to Joker. He's hardly an auteur and, furthermore, he was happy to excrete two Hangover sequels. Speaks volumes.
@@AdAstra78 After watching the movie yesterday i just don't really know what to think. On one hand i think this is a pretty logical sequal and true to the character, because Arthur as a character wouldn't be able to carry this Joker persona for a long time, as he says in the movie, he is just a sick person who always had a dream of being a performer and this persona gave him this armor to hide behind and feel untouchable. But on another hand i'd like to see him not be that kind of character, after the first movie he could have actually gave in to this persona fully, and especially if Harley would be an actual genuine love interest for him instead of just one of those chicks who are obsessed with serial killers and they she stops finding it "hot" when the guy drops the badboy act. Maybe then it could've been better. But idk, idk what to think about the movie honestly.
I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I too loved the first act and loved Gaga's acting here, but beyond that it did feel like the thematics got thin..especially with many of the songs feeling like the wrong choice of song for the moment. They often eased into songs in a way that felt like the director was halfway apologizing for it instead of fully engaging with the concept, though I also understand the aim to make it feel more grounded. Poorly executed - Sweeny Todd and Dancer in the Dark - but I'm not mad at it. We want movies to go for it sometimes. When they suck, it's easy in hindsight to say that it "should've never been made" but when they work, we have no problem giving praise for how clever it is the way it pushed the envelope. You can never get the latter without going for it.
I feel like I'm in extreme minority but i thought that the film was brilliant and bold,"One Flew Over The Cuckoos nest" meets "The Wizard Of Oz". The musical nature of the film was a natural progression; everything that Arthur had hidden away in him was music and dance: Dancing with a loaded gun in his living room, an interpretive dance in a bathroom, on the steps nere his apartment and then on the Murray Franklin Show. I didn't want to see a fan film of what a sequel to Joker should be, I wanted to see Todd Phillips' "Joker 2" and that's what i got.
I’ll never watch another Todd Phillips movie after this. Every time I go to the theatre I’m giving money to people that literally hate me. 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
I was intrigued and surprised watching the first one in the theater. I liked it overall, though I had some issues with it. But then rewatching it at home months-if not years-later, I wasn’t that impressed by it. It’s a great display of acting mostly. This sequel looks somewhat similar and I have no interest in paying to see it in a theater. I might catch it on streaming later. Thanks for the review. You always give thorough, detailed reasons for why you did or did not like something and it’s appreciated.
I really liked this movie. It was entirely about Arthur and his relentless sadness. I found it quite touching, and, while I wasn't cheering him on, I had huge sympathy for him. He never had any chance with Lee, or with anything in fact. His posturing in court was paper thin and didn't go anywhere. It couldn't, because the reality was that he had nothing to say for himself. I almost felt happy for him when the lad finally brought his suffering to an end.
This women has the best reviews. She doesnt miss the important things and is very expressive without being wordy. However I fear that she casts spells, so i only watch at opportune times in the celestial calender.
Agree, I thought the first act really had some promise and it just kind of fell off a cliff overall. Still had some great moments, I especially loved the cross examination between Arthur and Gary was superb, but just couldn’t ever fully get going in the right direction again
Maggie, first, thank you for saying the movie title so well, you nailed the French accent. Second, allow me to tell you i agree with you about Lady Gaga. But i have to say i also loved Joaquin and the movie. I am from Portugal and this one is getting really good reviews here. I believe that in the future Joker: Folie à Deux will be critically reevaluated or, at least, will have a cult following for being such a big budget, bonkers, unexpected kind of experimental movie. I enjoyed it so much more than the first one - i know i'm alone in this. Sorry for my English.
Totally agree, im one of the people that dont see the problem in it being a musical, but being a sequel, in fact those characters and gotham settings can make for a great and interesting musical...but they didnt do anything without it
Love the review, on point as always. The only thing I don't understand is why people keep saying Joker is in love with Harley Joker cares about nothing and no one. You could say he loves chaos and destruction but to say he LOVES Harley just isnt true Joker is the physical manifestation of hate. I absolutely would not prefer a Joker and Harley relationship movie I just want a three part Joker series that leads to a fight with Batman. I really cant buy the idea of a romance movie with Joker and Harley
I wish I could have a conversation about this because I have responses to almost all of the points made (though that's not to say I'm right or I would be trying to change minds). I don't want to write an entire treatise comment so I'll just condense it to this: even though I hate musicals, I quite liked the film, especially the cinematography (masterpiece in lighting) and color work. As mentioned, the acting performances were excellent; and I feel like I understood the choices made in the film's writing. The music worked for me; plus there was one song in particular that I really liked (not to mention the scene it was in). Anyone who is a cinephile should see this movie for themselves.
I think there is a certain hype to the purely negative reviews. Messy - sure, but still worthwhile. And agreed: the performances - in particular the 2 leads - are impressive.
I loved the first film, for many of the reasons you mentioned regarding Joaquin Phoenix. But for some reason since the first trailer came out for this film, I’ve had little interest. Man I’m sad they dropped the ball so hard. I love Gaga in everything she does too.
My $0.02 on this movie: POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOLLOW: I thought it was by the far best film I've seen this year. I liked the first movie, but this one was superior in my estimation. Here's what I took from the movie: The theme of the movie is the integration of two halves of a person. Arthur is a man of two halves; Arthur Fleck, and Joker. The movie explores the tension of those two sides, and how people around him try to fit him into one box or the other. His defense attorney is convinced that he IS Arthur, and the Joker is an aberrant part of his personality, the shadow self. Arthur takes drugs to suppress his other half, and tries to deny it. Lee and Joker's followers on the outside, on the other hand, are convinced he IS Joker, and it is the Arthur part of his personality that is an aberration. Both sides work throughout the film to try and mold Arthur in their own image, leading to the tension of the movie. While the defense attorney represents rationality, Lee represents the irrational. The clearly separated two halves of the movie (in Arkham and in the courtroom) are suggestive of the movies theme of two halves. Arthur starts the movie in Arkham believing he is Arthur and not the Joker, and by the middle point in the courtroom his view has switched. Both these assessments of Arthur are wrong, and at the end of the movie Arthur recognize that he is BOTH Arthur and JOKER. He is no longer a victim of other people's representations of him, but he is now fully integrated and cognizant of who he is in totality. This might be informed by Jungian ideas of assimilating the shadow part of one's personality. In the end, Arthur/Joker is integrated as an individual and has the possibility of a happy ending, however the film is tragic in its refusal to give that to him. As for the musical sections, these for me were a metaphorical representation of the intense feelings that a new relationship can create, and with Joker's psychosis make sense in the structure of the movie. Joker as a character is very performative, and so in this regard as well musical numbers make perfect sense. However, the folie a deux isn't just that between Joker and Lee; it is as much between Joker and his defense attorney, as in both relationships a shared delusion as to the reality of Arthur's personality is being fostered. Anyway, sorry for the too long post. TL;DR: Go see this movie, it's great.
The best Hollywood movie made in 2024 and one of the most mesmerizing performances (Phoenix) ever captured on a film. I'm perplexed by the negative review(s). Are You all blind?
I do agree, but only with the first part of Your statement.. Camera and (technical production on the whole) is fantastic as well, pacing/rhythm (once You let yourself to be hypnotized by Phoenix's portrait of his broken protagonist) is spot on, 45 minutes of live-recorder singing moments is tastefully done (often intimate and touching) while multiple social meta-commentaries (in otherwise simple - not simplistic - narative) surprising What a wonderful and (in the context of it´s high-budget creating process and expectations) daring marvel of a film
:) Too much for You to comprehend, kiddo.. Paranoid android indeed, go and dream of electric sheep Yes, Joker: Folie à Deux is display of a highest filmic merit while it's audience (sadly) too numb, tasteless and ignorant to appreciate it.. Perhaps in a decade or two from now, it will be rediscovered and finally deservedly revered.
I saw Joker (2019) and the Swedish movie Gräns/Border (2018) in quick succession. Both films deal with outsiders who live in a society that does not understand them and in which they cannot function. In both cases, the acceptance of the true self leads to a new path marked by violence and alienation. Whilst Joker felt like good entertainment to me (I definitely got a bang for my bucks ), Gräns really got under my skin. It´s the far more humane and emotional approach. If you haven´t seen it, I highly recommend it.
Can’t think of an audience less interested in a musical than people who liked Joker. Only worse mismatch would be if Joker was pitched as the sequel to a musical.
Such an odd thing to say about an R rated movie that made a billion dollars, tell me what is a person who liked the first one like? Now I haven't seen the movie however most of the criticism of the movie is not because the musical numbers but because it felt disrespectful to the first movie and the protagonist. I haven't seen a single reviewer that I align with my tastes gives this an endorsement so I'm skipping this movie.
@@ArthurAugustyn Your assertion that it failed because that it's a musical or that all people who liked the Joker don't like musicals is nonsense that's my point. I'm choosing to skip because nearly everyone says it's terrible.
@@ArthurAugustyn You didn't speak for yourself, you spoke for everyone who liked the first movie. If you just spoke for yourself, I wouldn't have responded to you.
If she likes it, I'll keep my tickets to see it in IMAX on Thursday. If she doesn't like it, I'll just not go and keep the tickets, to save someone else from wasting their money.
As someone who worked on this for more than a month there’s SO much I am wondering why they left on the cutting floor. That being said amazing performances but I wanted more of an arc to latch onto
Legit one of the most absolute underrated film critics on this platform.
No, lol
@@idiot_city5444 who's better ? I think she's an amazing critic and definitly underrated
@@idiot_city5444 yes
pretty smoooth...hmmm'ye...perhaps i ought a brownose atte(m)pt, like a "wow, maggy..you're sO smArt..howw..?.whYyy..didn't i sniff that out?", or some such a$$$mooching...but, legit, of course.
I love how you approach every movie you review with an open mind and a desire to treat it with respect with your thoughts. With nearly every critic, you can feel that they may let preconceived notions take over, and may also enjoy trashing movies. Even when you give very VERY negative reviews like this, you bring a lot of heart and depth to your review. I just wanna say I appreciate it and I wish more critics were like you.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the way people get this sick pleasure out of bashing films
@@chrisjfox8715 right. Deepfocuslens (sorry, don’t know her name) finds a way to be constructive and still has a passion for discussing the movie even if it’s not good. It’s really refreshing
You're the only film review channel that I'm subscribed to. Instead of being reactionary like most "film review" channels you give actual thought to the film and get dreamy with it and make fantastic analogies. It's so refreshing to see
She did approach from a different perspective than other channels, I'll give you that. But she wanted Harley and Joker to be like from the Batman cartoon. The most bitter thing about this sequel is that Arthur doesn't get a happily ever after ending. But he's still sympathetic.
Yeah, it's almost like she has emotions and opinions, and not just a vendetta against (or in favour of) ""woke Hollywood"". She's almost like a real movie critic.
It's not really about Joker, it's about the idea, the fantasy of The Joker. The audience that longs for that type of Joker origin story is just like Lee, they get disappointed when the fantasy isn't real. There is an important message here about what the audience craves. It's a bold and multilayered masterpiece.
Finally someone got it.
@@elevenseven-yq4vu I think Todd Philips tried to tell us already in Joker but I missed it. I only got it with the second one.
Damien Walter is using the term anti-fantasy and I would like to maybe append "anti-escapism" to that. It's really important that we understand this message, we simply cannot go on doing things the way we have so far. We're addicted and we don't seem to be able to kick the habit. Escapism and fantasy feel fantastic when we suffer but sometimes we just have to wake up and face reality. Only then can we address the problems that make us suffer in the first place. Instead there are those who keep upping the ante and keep selling us the same dream or some other, even bigger. Lying to us that "the old dream is fake, I'm telling you the truth" dragging us into the vortex and the next level of our own hell.
@@jevoschYes, "anti-escapism" is what it is. Well-written comment of yours!
@@elevenseven-yq4vu Thank you. I hope with time the pendulum will swing back on this one. It's clearly underrated and misunderstood - a reaction which of course now is a part of the work.
For me, I think I will use this film as a diagnostic on reviewers.
Nah, it's a money laundry scheme.
Im immediately getting Matrix 4 vibes. "Hey Warner Bros. I didn't want to make this sequel, so here's a sequel about how I hate making sequels"
Yup. Wow Matrix 4 is garbage though I can't imagine this could possibly be worse
Nailed it.
@@b1thearchitect401It will literally destroy the original for you. I've watch the Matrix 1000 times, and never seen Matrix 4 because the Last Jedi taught me Hollywood hates millennials and will destroy any ounce of nostalgia you had left.
@@ItsVanillaDiceBaeBaeThe Matrix 4 is pretty bad but it’s not even one tenth as bad as The Last Jedi
Basically
This was the best critique of Joker 2 I've seen to date; none of the sensationalist and reationary takes flooding social media. A well thought-out dissection, while respecting the film makers. Kudos!
I loved the first Joker and saw it several times.
Joker: Folie a Deux is a great sequel and I plan to see it again and again.
I liked it a lot. I think it will be misunderstood by many people who liked the first movie. I love the first movie. But this really worked for me.
I think it is much more ambitious than the first movie. It doesn’t succeed 100% of the time. But it works enough to be really good.
I disagree that it’s not confident. I think it is very confident. It takes big risks.
It explores the character more deeply and it’s much darker. The criticism that it doesn’t flesh out the love enough misses the point. It’s not a love story. It’s a story about a shared delusion. A delusion that bursts and we get to see what’s underneath.
It’s very bold. It works.
Yeah, I agree with you. I really like this movie and think that most of the criticism is missing the point. A lot of points I’ve seen said that this movie isn’t as bombastic as the first one, and that it’s snipes or destroys the jokers character development, but in actuality, it fleshes it out and creates a real human with history out of a character. I think that the movie was very on the nose with Arthur saying that literally no one cares about him unless he is the big bad psychopathic, mass murdering joker. And, in my opinion, he’s ultimately right. People want a spectacle, a larger than life figure that transcends the confines of what it means to be human, but fail to see that the joker is the result of a human.
Refreshing to see people who share my opinion. I loved the ending with its tragedy.
Right there with you. I adore both movies.
@@gekko444 agreed. He makes clear that he doesn’t know who he is. The knock knock joke at the end kind of sums it up. Everyone just wants the Joker. But that comes at a cost to a real human being. It’s much deeper and more nuanced than people give it credit for.
And I guess the reaction of many viewers proves Arthur Fleck’s point perfectly. All they wanted was more joker.
This.
smh, the joker didn't come out dancing to Prince's Partyman? what a waste.
That soundtrack is such a banger
That would have been awesome in the courtroom! Joker jumping on the table and shouting, "Gentleman! Let's broaden our minds! Laurence?" And then some random guy could rise from the audience with a boom box that plays their rendition of Prince's Partyman.
Disagree! I really loved The direction this movie took and ended the character's story arc in a way that wasn't fan service and I definitely was entertained. Bravo!
@@davidfilmexpert I love the movie, too. The commenter we're responding to told an obvious joke.
Hubba hubba hubba, who do you trust??
Even though I enjoyed the first Joker movie, I have absolutely no interest in seeing part 2.
I'm the opposite. No interest in the first one. I'll catch this one on DVD (library).
going from gritty realistic take on the joker to a ... musical .. was a weird choice
@@TtotheCizzel I expect it to be as unpleasant as "Pennis from Heaven", but gotta check out Gaga!
Same, except I think Gaga looks fantastic in this -- the rest of the movie looks uninteresting though.
@@johnpjones182
The first one is garbage. Watching the second in isolation is a new strategy. You're welcome to it, I guess.
Quite frankly your reviews and Mark Kermode are the only Ones that can convince me to either see or not go see a movie.
Same. They're my #1 and #2 reviewers I go to on youtube.
And he actually really liked it, and thought it was better than the first one, Simon Mayo agreed also. I don’t think it’s THAT good, but I did enjoy it quite a bit.
Damn, imagine forcing yourself to watch only what Kermode enjoys 💀 bro leeches his views and ideologies into EVERY review he makes.
@@Lovicide Yet he’s the most respected and trusted film critic in UK 🤷♂️ Sounds like you’re just projecting.
@@LovicideSo does Maggie, she is just very upfront about doing it. It seems like Kermode expects his viewers to know that is the case with him too. What else do you expect from a reviewer? To channel nothing from their persona and attempt to be completely objective? Watch IGN
Kermode and Maggie are the gold standard, and I find myself disagreeing with them both half the time!
I'm surprised at how much I loved this film based on what I'd heard about it and the reaction it was getting.
For me it's all about Arthur finally getting the love and attention he'd always wanted, from the public and personified in Harley, and trying to play into the Joker character because of that but eventually coming to realise that's not who he was or what he wanted and having the people that claimed to love and care about him turn their back on him. Its tragic and I thought it was a very interesting place to take things that I didn't expect.
The musical aspect really worked for me as a fun way to explore how the characters were feeling as the film progressed but also to heighten that sense of love and magic Arthur was feeling and make it all the more powerful when she's leaving him and he's begging her to stop singing.
The idea of the shadow of your actions eventually becoming more powerful than you and causing harm you didn't intend is definitely one of the most ambitious ideas a comic book film has tackled and for me it worked completely. I'm sad that it seems I'm one of the few.
Spot on take.
People are just straight up stupid. The majority of the mind controlled sheep should be prohibited to attend cinema theatre. The music is what this illiterates hate the most, let me tell you something to open your frigid mainstream minds, the music is the way they communicate. People with mental illness, not you jerks, you're just jerks eating popcorns, people with mental illness have a vast array of forms to communicate, it's their expression, some sing some gesticulate some use different ways than just normally speaking to communicate and express themselves amongs themselves or to themselves.
I’m with ya.
It’s about what happens when the fantasy bumps into reality.
Foreboding as H3 hockey’s. The bell. 2025 is either going to be a doozy or a reprieve.
Yeah I agree I thought it was interesting. I really don't get why people are dismissing it as like a heap of trash.
Am I the only one who is thinking that Joker 2 is an allegory for the public's relationship with the media? In this case, folie a deux is THE psychosis ( shared by the public and the SNS or maybe even Hollywood) of our times. Arthur Flek is the influencer wearing the media mask which has become stuck to his face; an old trope but relevant now. Harlleen (Gaga) is a representation of the public (not the only the one here: the prisoner who kills Arthur is also a contender).
The parasocial and destructive relationship that Harleen develops with Arthur is a love affair that is played out through the duets and other love songs. In a way, it shows a history of SNS. 'What the world needs now' is the early days of WhatsApp or UA-cam when it seemed like people were able to form wonderous connections with each other. 'I've got the world on a string' is the influencers psychopathy coming out.
Note, also, that Harlleen loses interest in Arthur when he shows his remorse and humanity. Like a public baying for blood, she wants the murdurous violence of the amphitheater. She is not just a representive of the public as she also reminds me of certain political strategists who would make 'a mountain' out of the chaos and mayhem.
Yet, Arthur is not a characture of an influencer. He tries to escape his role. When he is fantasizing about his literal escape in the courtroom and has gun, I half expected him to go Sid Vicisous and kill the jury, but no, he kills the cameramen: the media avatar.
On top of this, the film's genre is the musical. A form which is often seen as pure escapism (note the musicals from which the songs are taken); who wants reality when life is grim. The twist here is that our modern escapism for many is 'doomscrolling' and shock jock influencers. Hence, Joker 2 is a muscial, but a grim and twisted musical to match our modern age. This is what we watch for entertainment.
I'm not a massive fan of allegories. 'Nope' was another movie purportedly about the media. J2 seems more subtle and less on the nose.
SNS?
@@fewwiggle social networking services. I'm just using it as a catch-all for online platforms which can enable parasocial relationships such as WhatsApp and UA-cam.
Joker shooting Murray scared the hell out of Hollywood/international media complex/elites. For the average person it was just a grizzly murder scene. For them, it was like watching someone shoot your dog. Talk show hosts are important pets for "white slavers" and in California and "policy makers" in Washington. Showing how vulnerable the media's consent manufacturing machine is was a huge no no. So the joker had to be raped and ritually sacrificed.
no i see it more as a cynical takedown of the character, since allegedly people didnt “like the first one the correct way”.
@@ksander1779 It's not a takedown. Arthur is still likable. I still feel bad for him. It's like a Greek tragedy where bad things happen to good people even when they don't deserve it.
I absolutely hate sequels that destroy all the character development that was built up in the first film. At the end of the first film, Arthur Fleck died and Joker was born. This film completely undoes that.
This sequel was made to diminish and devalue the first one. It’s unique in that sense.
@@dougcrane8031that’s a lot of explanation for a terrible movie. I skipped the first because Fleck is just a Buffalo Bill knockoff.
Fleck was never “Joker”, just an unstable and abused man pushed to his breaking point, which the 2nd movie highlights
@@MilleniumKage yeah. There’s literally nothing worthwhile in either case is there. The fact that the Joker moniker was linked to the movie annoyed the director from the beginning.
@@dougcrane8031 nothing. I listen to a lot of reviews for a thorough analysis.
Finally, an intelligent review of this movie, after all the other hyperbolic ones that UA-cam kept recommending to me.
She’s probably my favourite “film critic” on UA-cam. Even when I disagree she communicates herself extremely well
This sounds like Ari Aster's 'Beau Is Afraid'. Sometimes too much creative freedom is a bad thing. But still gonna see it as I'm intrigued by your insightful review.
Started watching your reviews about two months ago and love your input. I like how you explain in depth what you like about a film or what you don’t like. Very articulate in your explanations. Waiting for your review of Smile 2. I will wait for that before I decide to see it.
You took the thoughts right out of my mind. I really love the beginning and thought everything would run smoothly, then it gets pretty repetitive especially with the musical numbers. I think all of the elements are in place, but the script. It almost feels like an unfinished draft that didn’t get properly developed and lost its way towards the end. It could’ve been so good.
I saw the film today and it wasn‘t what I expected. The tragic figure of Fleck is very convincing though and I always love Phoenix. Lady Gaga was very good too. She is the „abuser“ here in a way, because she seemed to understand him, but wasn’t able to. She wanted him to do things she didn‘t dare to do by herself. She wanted to belong and to be seen and feared. I liked the movie, but it was very sad. Gleeson is as brilliant as always. The songs didn‘t bother me at all.
I just saw it. I loved it. I needed it.
DC’s entire slate has been this way. Hits followed by bombs followed by a hit & more bombs. Cant say I am surprised.
Yet, they continue to announce more projects instead of focusing on the current projects they are working on
This was in production before Gunn took over, and the last one was such a hit there’s no way they were canceling it.
I’m skeptical on DC, but the new new stuff so far has been good.
@@TheMattyNation What's wild is I really enjoyed Gunn's The Suicide Squad, somewhat enjoyed his Peacemaker show, and don't really have total confidence in the slate he's announced. But I will wait for judgement until seeing his Superman/Authority based DC verse.
Then on the other hand, I somehow enjoyed both Black Adam & Shazam Fury of the Gods, but never expected to.
@@ferrarriohh I enjoyed Peacemaker a lot more than The Suicide Squad. I really liked Black Adam (best live-action Dr. Fate ever btw); but Fury of the Gods was rather bad to me.
This is a WB movie
I loved this movie.
Very beautifully filmed, with excellent performances and production design.
About the story. It's more basic. It is more focused on emotions, which is reflected in the performances and the singing part. I loved the way they simply went with the original vocals without arrangements and with just a few instruments to accompany in the background.
I accept this film for what it is, an even greater rarity than the last, imperfect, to be sure, but fascinating and captivating.
I noticed the lack of tension, but i also think the point is not in if Arthur wins the trial or not, but rather in be with him and share his feelings through the music. Of course that doesn't excuse the irregular rythim of the movie, but i think it works most of the time.
Joker = Falling Down
I wouldn't say it was a movie that appealed to bleeding hearts. It appeals to people who have been broken by society and fight back.
My favorite thing about Joker was it made the villain human. Too often villains are just portrayed as pure evil. It's what our government does to other countries to get our support to attack them. And THAT is pure evil.
I love movies that make villains human. Because there's always a reason people do bad things.
So Todd using "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy" for the first Joker, means he used "New York, New York" for the 2nd? Maybe we'll get "Joker 3" "Silence"...
He used The Matrix Resurrections. There is a Eyes Wide Shut orgy somewhere with these filmakers high fiving themselves.
I know this is a weird comparison, but Joker 2 reminded me so much of the Seinfeld series finale. It pointlessly rehashes everything using a court trial as a plot device, and doesn’t do anything remotely interesting with it
At least the Seinfeld finale served the purpose of bringing back a variety of characters and saying goodbye. This needed to build on a single film in some sort of relatable way
@@richtes yeah that’s fair. But the Seinfeld finale also had contempt for its audience, just like Joker 2. Larry David and Todd Phillips created unlikable, but interesting characters, and then criticizes the audience for having been invested in them
@@123rockfan Larry David seems pretty unlikable himself.
Don’t get the business model. I got a call today (Fri) from an auto shop saying thanks for bringing in on Tuesday for the annual inspection. At least some people appreciate being paid and want you to return.
I liked the first Joker a lot. I think it's a genuinely great movie. But i don't think it has much to say about society or mental illness or comic book movies or crime or anything. It's just a good character study of a depressed, mentally ill man (who isn't smart).
So it's not really even about the Joker. But still a solid film.
Solid standalone film + unnecessary sequel = GIMMICK time...
Couldnt agree anymore with this review. Imo a terrible depiction of the actual Joker from the comics. But like you said, a good study of a man.
I absolutely agree with your view. The name of the movie could easily be Poker, Goker, Doker or whatever. It has virtually nothing to do with any big things as you mention and not even with the comics. The first Joker was like 6/10 ok to see kind of film. Only reason to see the sequel would had been the story. Since that doesn't matter anymore there's nothing to see for me.
I have never watched a review SO FAST. IM SO EXCITED
x2 speed?
You don't need to listen to what this clueless chick thinks to enjoy a movie and form your own opinion. I really loved it!
@@lockekappa500Yes.
You nailed this review. Glad to see other people thought this was a huge flop too.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree with so much of this that it’s insane. Some of this I couldn’t even articulate, but you saying it for me is so gratifying. Thank you.
Personally, I thought the first Joker was overrated. I’d rather watch Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy.
Are you talking to me?
My thoughts exactly
those are different movie, dude. no matter the inspirations.
Such an edgy thing to say.👍
Good. They are much better films. You can get much more out of them.
Joker 2 is the same as the first movie just with singing and songs
2:48 The fact that people are ripping it into shreds is funny. The first one holds a special place in my heart, yet when I went into a fan first screening of this film the audience didn’t know how to feel. Some clapped; some groaned. I’m looking forward to seeing it again to find out if it changes my point of view of the film. All I’ll say is objectively this film is a bit of a mess.
WOW!! Joker: Folie A Deux was AWESOME!! I watched Joker: Folie A Deux on October 4th!! A MASTERPIECE!!💜💚💜💚
You missed the mark on this review. Harley wasn't in love with Arthur, but with Joker and as he began separating from the trauma-produced character he's embodied. This film is deeper than you're seeing.
6 maybe 7 out of 10, the hate is getting silly. It's far better than most comic book movies and blockbusters in general.
I'm guilty of this too, but I feel like anytime a piece of media does poorly, everyone needs to bandwagon solely on the negatives. Like I get it... No one likes to feel like they wasted their money on a poor experience, but we need to also address the positive aspects of underperforming media too. In order to make any prequel/sequel/etc. better, the filmmakers need to know their areas of weakness AND strengths. For example, as this UA-camr pointed out, even though Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix's characters were written poorly, their (the actors, themselves) presence was still felt throughout the movie. Excellent review, btw👍
i think joaquin phoenix version of joker was doomed from begining . the joker is crazy, mass murderer who just wants to watch world burn.
but joaquin's joker was a normal person who punched back after being cornered for a long time, he never killed senselessly but only who treated him badly. and this i think is against the very idea of joker. joker dont need reason to kill, there's no meaning to his actions , no trauma behind his violence, nothing in his past pulling strings. he simply is the JOKER. and thats what why he scares and appeals us
I would say that you misunderstand most modern versions of the Joker. The Joker wants to watch the world burn because he thinks it's absurd that people believe and operate as if it's not already burning. We act like things matter, like people matter and yet our collective actions show otherwise. As a whole, people bring harm to everyone and everything around them and we'll never escape that predisposition. All it takes is one bad day to make a person realize that. That's why he has been written as having such a bond with Batman for at least the last, I dunno, 40 years? He sees Batman as someone who realized the absurdity but then actually went insane in thinking that he could change it. To the Joker, we're all insane for pretending that we're not selfish, impulsive animals; and funny enough, Todd Phillips' Arthur Fleck is a victim of our insanity, while his Joker is a product of it.
@@virgilhawkins5680 i was with you totally but who's the his in "his Joker" at the end of your post?
@@chrisjfox8715 Todd Phillips and Arthur
@@virgilhawkins5680 what? Dude, re-read your last sentence. Not trying to be rude but I really don't think you worded it the way you intended.
@@virgilhawkins5680 wait, you mean "Todd Phillips" not "Todd Phillips and Arthur"?
I appreciate your review! Very well spoken. I recommend putting taboos of trailer clips in between talking just to break it up a bit and making a thumb nail because I want to see your reviews at the top of everyone’s recommendation page
We're the two people in the world who genuinely enjoyed Gaga's performance.
I have been PATIENTLY waiting for this to drop.
Mental patiently?
I'm sorry.
Your reviews are so soothing and calm to listen to! Love em!!!
I just finished watching the movie. I thought it was decent but could have been a lot better. Great review. Nice to have a new movie review channel to add to my rotation
Whether I agree or not, your reviews are always enlightening. Thanks for that.
I really enjoyed this film ! It feels again it’s a mirror to society. I think there’s been so much unfair negative responses. Joaquin gives possibly his greatest performance in this second film. My jaw was on the floor witnessing even to embarrassment how far he went. There’s a lot to like here. I had so much fun with the musical elements once I got what they were going for. I liked this film more than the first. It’s an exploration of Arthur and in the script provided a lot more substance than the first. No one seems to like it bit f*** that ! I loved it and it’s a shame the performances and movie will it be honored. The miss fire is people not appreciating what they did here. In my opinion.
Joker Folio à Duex is fire! The fact that Arthur was told before it happened that he was getting duped when firing his attorney and it played out was beautiful!
My husband liked it better than the first part. It criticizes the prison regime harshly. And they didn‘t glorify violence. The person he was is even more tangible in this second part and I love the actors.
"people not appreciating what they did here"
Sure, blame the 'people' -- regardless, isn't it a problem if the 'people' don't understand your "sophisticated" and "super deep" movie?
@@fewwiggle you guys only giver surface level criticisms. It’s a good movie man. People dismiss so quickly without really thinking about it.
@@claranimmer7349 yes ! This second film showed the failed correctional system. These things these societies failed Arthur. It’s putting a mirror to society. Excellent acting performances. And I loved the musical aspects.
Joker: Folie a Deux is baffling, bizarre and I kind of loved it? What a complete troll of a movie and one that is actively trying to get you to hate it and piss you off. I mean this in the best possible way.
It's been a few hours and I can't stop thinking about it, and I'm shocked this got the green light and was released as is at the price tag it's reported as.
What a mean-spirited movie. Complete misery porn in a way that gets you lost in its despair. It's the cinematic equivalent of having a really sad wank and the only thing you have to clean yourself off of is your DC Comics blanket from when you were younger.
Also, my parents’ couch used to have those pillow you have in the background.
I loved the first Joker… I found it devastating and beautiful but as for the second … firstly I have no interest in it being a musical. Secondly I really dislike Lady Gaga … and I can’t get past that and thirdly I feel like Phoenix must have literally disappeared up his own backside to have honestly not had the foresight to see this was NOT a good idea.
Joaquin Phoenix is a fantastic actor but never forget he's just as much apart of the woke liberal crowd as any of them. He knew full well what he was getting into, he's not stupid
@@DrewDragoonit’s not that he’s “”woke”” he got fucking paid dumbass. Most actors dont give a shit whatever they say, they just want the money that comes with it.
Joaquin is super talented but extremely annoying as a person. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was at least partially his responsibility
In batman TAS you understand why joker was drawn to her cause she was wicked smart but was vulnerable to being taken advantage of
Here it is the other way around: She is twisted, wicked smart but crazy, and Arthur is vulnerable enough to be manipulated by her into yet another delusion of grandeur, thereby botching any chance he might (or might not) ever have had of turning an imminent death sentence into a somewhat more lenient security imprisonment life sentence including psychiatric treatment by way of an empathic, open-minded (questionable in Gotham, but theoretically possible) jury. Joker 2 is as dark as it gets, and the switcheroo of the Ms. Quinn - (Not quite) Joker dynamic is very well executed in this movie.
I love your reviews! I completely agree about this film. I think one of the ressons i was so excited about this film was because i was so curious about how they were going to expand the story since the brilliance of the first film was that you didnt know what was real and what wasnt... or if any of it actually happened at all. I was really hoping they kept to that. My one hope was that those unanswered questions didnt get answered.
.... then thats all folie did
I do think Todd Phillips gets a lot of flack from critics because he isn't an indie darling who finally made it. He's a guy who made popular frat boy comedies, then leap frogged into getting Oscar Noms. If Greta Gerwig had made Joker and made it the exact same way. The same critics bashing Todd would have loved Joker and praised it.
Bruh the reason Joker is the way it is (a mid movie, with a good performance) is because Todd Phillips directed it. If it had a better director it most likely would have been a better movie
@@nicomercado7252 I meant if Gerwig made the exact same movie. You just swap out the names on the directing credit
@@Gavin48 Fair enough
If Greta Gergwig made joker, looks like Harley quinn would have be worth a damn it seems. She knows how to wrtie women..
Couldn’t be more wrong. Take a look at the careers of directors like Jerry Zucker, or Chris and Paul Weitz. Jerry Zucker, as part of the Zucker Brothers directing duo, went from making absurd comedy spoof movies, like Airplane, Hot Shots, and the Naked Gun movies to making Ghost, a beloved four-quadrant movie heavy on the romance drama, but also incorporating elements of horror and comedy that was a major hit. Chris and Paul Weitz went from making American Pie movies to making About a Boy, an adaptation of a book about a lonely, womanizing jerk who makes a very unlikely friend in a bullied 14 year old boy, changing both of their lives for the better. That movie has become a modern day classic.
This is all to say Todd Phillips is getting flack because he made a terrible movie, not because he made a film that’s different than his previous film.
I didn't even watch the movie but you articulate your insights so well I couldn't resist.
About to watch it for the first time tonight, loved the first and ps.. i could listen too you speak all day❤
Thanks for the review. I personally love the acting, the mood and the cinematography so much that it was worth my time and money. I felt there were two story lines that could have made this a great film. There seemed to be a building tension between who Arthur was as his identity. On the one side you had him wanting to reject all of the people sensationalizing the Joker character and his lawyer wanting him to remind him that he's Arthur and recognize that Joker was a dual personality that came from trauma. On that side, it would be a triumph for him to recover his sense of self-identity and become Arthur again. On the other side you have Harley who has fallen in love with the Joker character and she's wanting to pull him into becoming that persona. I wish they had developed this tension a lot more and given it some satisfying conclusion. It seems (spoiler) that when he just abruptly rejects the Joker persona before his closing argument, it's just a let-down without a satisfying resolution of the tension. The other direction I thought the movie was going was that he was oppressed throughout the film and beaten by the guards and put down by the media. I thought there's going to be some satisfying comeback where he becomes this powerful character with the help of Harley and gets revenge on everyone who hurt him. In the end, the film just seems to be saying that there's oppression in the world and people are heartless and he will always be a victim. It was pretty depressing to see his story end that way. It was as though we went back to his victimization in the first scene in the first film and realizing he'll always be in that situation and there's nothing he can do to gain power over it. It was a very unsatisfying conclusion.
It was indeed very tragic, the entire story of Arthur Fleck as it played out over the course of Joker and Joker 2. The way I see it, these movies are only in part about Arthur Fleck's ultimate demise, but even more so about the ultimate triumph of Gotham City's heart of darkness within its citizens' souls. All of them took advantage of Arthur in their own way. Joker/Joker 2 is the first ever Gotham City tale - that I know of - told not from the perspective from a hero, villain, or anti-hero, but from the bottom, from an average person born into outsider circumstances. Gotham City ground him down. That's a depressing tale to tell, but a daring one. Because THIS Gotham City tale is holding up a mirror to our own society, by cutting away larger-than-life stand-in figures of authority and responsibility such as Bruce Wayne / The Batman or any supervillains to push the blame onto for everything that is wrong in society. And when you peel that back, the questions remain: Is our society so much different from Gotham's, and what is our own role in shaping it that way? This is the one DC story that dares to go that far, the one where escapism doesn't triumph in the end, the one that takes the society of its own world to a more consistent and realistic conclusion. To me, it is a great depiction of Gotham City up from the bottom rather than from high above out of its manors, penthouses, skyscrapers and spires.
Im glad youre getting more views these days, you are talented in what you do
Your reviews are utterly fantastic, you're such an intelligent reviwer, wish I'd seen you ages ago
I want to see the making of. Now that’s something people will want to see.
Thank you for your review. With the hurricane of bad press swirling around this film, I’ve been trying to find a fair and genuine take on it
I just saw it just left theater. Ppl really overacting man. The musical parts weren't even that bad some parts weren't necessary but because GaGa is in the movie obviously her singing def helps. But the ending did feel not opened ended but it felt like it went no where but overall the movie was fine ,but in actuality looking at it in prospective you could have just made this one whole long 4hr movie a sequel wasn't need like if this movie was apart of the first joker then cut out some of musical parts it would be more effective. But you still would get a empty feeling at the end like aww I sat through 4 hrs just for that? But it is what it is. Decent movie first one still better.
It’s not a decent film , it was shit
I’ve watched 2 of your review the last 2 days, this one and Megalopolis. I haven’t seen either myself. It’s strange though because although you were generally enthusiastic about Megalopolis your review, to me, made it sound a confusing mess, whereas with Joker 2 your review was generally negative but you’ve actually made it sound like a chaotically fascinating film.
I didn't watch Megalopolis, but I did watch Joker 2. The problem is that most people expect good things to happen to good characters and bad things to bad characters. Joker 2 is like a Greek tragedy. We feel sad and angry on Arthur's behalf for what happens to him.
🎉🎉🎉 best review I’ve heard - deep focus + Mark Kermode - rockin it
Joker 2 was phenomenal. But not for smooth brains. Joaquin was amazing. Oscar performance.
lol~
Excellent concise review, much appreciated.
Joaquin Phoenix is always a sight to see. I still think The Master is his best performance! He carried the first film for me, otherwise it would have been an average soft Taxi Driver remake. I'll go into this one with low expectations. Yeah its always a shame to see art without confidence, even if its not good, go all in! Love hearing your opinions! Hope you're doing well and love your photography work! ☺👍
Yah, the dynamic between Phoenix and Hoffman was so good in The Master, that waa such an interesting movie
Todd got paid big $ to play WB and DC and people who love killers more than protagonists, loves it
Interesting take, very thoughtful and willing to let the movie be what it is, rather than being super critical of what it isn't.
Thanks, this was relaxing to the brain. I think this is the first time I see an intelligent channel specially about movies and reviews. As a DC nerd, I don't like how DC fails with the many character they have, but the Batman branch can produce very interesting things. Again as a DC nerd, no matter how good or bad, one character can't live without the other. If it had to have a sequel, the misfiring "for me" is how slowly it connects to it all (for a sequel).
When i heard the sequel was going to be a musical, i knew the movie was going to be divisive. Philips was swinging for the fences; either he'd hit a home run or strike out.
Which was it? HR or SO?
When you first hear that it's a musical, you think it's going to be a frivolous unserious movie. But that is far from the truth. There are no "pop" or "contemporary songs." Arthur retreats into his imagination to cope with reality.
For my tastes, the first Joker film was far too derivative of better films I'd rather watch. That said, I was looking forward to the sequel taking a hard left turn.
The ambition looked good on paper but unfortunately Todd Phillips remains a hack and can only do so much outside of his skill set.
I'm loathed to watch this on principle. I really respected the filmmakers saying there wouldn't be a sequel back in 2019. Yet, surprise surprise, here we are. Greed wins the day. Of course it does! I'm hoping this film dies a death.
Of course, it makes complete sense to turn down life changing money. Everyone sells out for millions.
if it would be greed they would go with the safest option. This was just their vision
@lepersonnage371 I wish I still had your kind of optimism. Bear in mind the director's filmography prior to Joker. He's hardly an auteur and, furthermore, he was happy to excrete two Hangover sequels. Speaks volumes.
@@AdAstra78 After watching the movie yesterday i just don't really know what to think. On one hand i think this is a pretty logical sequal and true to the character, because Arthur as a character wouldn't be able to carry this Joker persona for a long time, as he says in the movie, he is just a sick person who always had a dream of being a performer and this persona gave him this armor to hide behind and feel untouchable. But on another hand i'd like to see him not be that kind of character, after the first movie he could have actually gave in to this persona fully, and especially if Harley would be an actual genuine love interest for him instead of just one of those chicks who are obsessed with serial killers and they she stops finding it "hot" when the guy drops the badboy act. Maybe then it could've been better. But idk, idk what to think about the movie honestly.
Sure, but he certainly didn't make a money grab sequel. It appears he wanted to make a point and the first movie funded his point.
I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I too loved the first act and loved Gaga's acting here, but beyond that it did feel like the thematics got thin..especially with many of the songs feeling like the wrong choice of song for the moment. They often eased into songs in a way that felt like the director was halfway apologizing for it instead of fully engaging with the concept, though I also understand the aim to make it feel more grounded.
Poorly executed - Sweeny Todd and Dancer in the Dark - but I'm not mad at it. We want movies to go for it sometimes. When they suck, it's easy in hindsight to say that it "should've never been made" but when they work, we have no problem giving praise for how clever it is the way it pushed the envelope. You can never get the latter without going for it.
I feel like I'm in extreme minority but i thought that the film was brilliant and bold,"One Flew Over The Cuckoos nest" meets "The Wizard Of Oz". The musical nature of the film was a natural progression; everything that Arthur had hidden away in him was music and dance: Dancing with a loaded gun in his living room, an interpretive dance in a bathroom, on the steps nere his apartment and then on the Murray Franklin Show. I didn't want to see a fan film of what a sequel to Joker should be, I wanted to see Todd Phillips' "Joker 2" and that's what i got.
I’ll never watch another Todd Phillips movie after this. Every time I go to the theatre I’m giving money to people that literally hate me. 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
I was intrigued and surprised watching the first one in the theater. I liked it overall, though I had some issues with it. But then rewatching it at home months-if not years-later, I wasn’t that impressed by it. It’s a great display of acting mostly.
This sequel looks somewhat similar and I have no interest in paying to see it in a theater. I might catch it on streaming later. Thanks for the review. You always give thorough, detailed reasons for why you did or did not like something and it’s appreciated.
I loved this movie. Big fan of the music as well.
I loved it too. It captivated me. It's dividing audiences and that's fun for me.
@ELCHAPOTHEMAN Awesome. About to see it again tonight.
Your reviews are really spot on. Always.
But why is your image flipped?
I really liked this movie. It was entirely about Arthur and his relentless sadness. I found it quite touching, and, while I wasn't cheering him on, I had huge sympathy for him. He never had any chance with Lee, or with anything in fact. His posturing in court was paper thin and didn't go anywhere. It couldn't, because the reality was that he had nothing to say for himself. I almost felt happy for him when the lad finally brought his suffering to an end.
Speaking of pschyedelia , could you review Fellini's Satyricon.
The most amazing movie made in a very long time. Holy shittttt I love this movie
This women has the best reviews. She doesnt miss the important things and is very expressive without being wordy. However I fear that she casts spells, so i only watch at opportune times in the celestial calender.
Agree, I thought the first act really had some promise and it just kind of fell off a cliff overall. Still had some great moments, I especially loved the cross examination between Arthur and Gary was superb, but just couldn’t ever fully get going in the right direction again
Maggie, first, thank you for saying the movie title so well, you nailed the French accent. Second, allow me to tell you i agree with you about Lady Gaga. But i have to say i also loved Joaquin and the movie. I am from Portugal and this one is getting really good reviews here. I believe that in the future Joker: Folie à Deux will be critically reevaluated or, at least, will have a cult following for being such a big budget, bonkers, unexpected kind of experimental movie. I enjoyed it so much more than the first one - i know i'm alone in this. Sorry for my English.
Totally agree, im one of the people that dont see the problem in it being a musical, but being a sequel, in fact those characters and gotham settings can make for a great and interesting musical...but they didnt do anything without it
I was going to see Megalopolis and J2 this weekend and after the reviews- I’m still seeing Megalopolis that’s all, have to.
Joker budget $55 million. Joker Folie A Deux budget $200 million. Keep this in mind, amazing little detail.
I deadass stopped scrolling because I thought Olivia Munm was reviewing Joker 2
Love the review, on point as always. The only thing I don't understand is why people keep saying Joker is in love with Harley
Joker cares about nothing and no one. You could say he loves chaos and destruction but to say he LOVES Harley just isnt true
Joker is the physical manifestation of hate. I absolutely would not prefer a Joker and Harley relationship movie
I just want a three part Joker series that leads to a fight with Batman. I really cant buy the idea of a romance movie with Joker and Harley
I wish I could have a conversation about this because I have responses to almost all of the points made (though that's not to say I'm right or I would be trying to change minds). I don't want to write an entire treatise comment so I'll just condense it to this: even though I hate musicals, I quite liked the film, especially the cinematography (masterpiece in lighting) and color work. As mentioned, the acting performances were excellent; and I feel like I understood the choices made in the film's writing. The music worked for me; plus there was one song in particular that I really liked (not to mention the scene it was in). Anyone who is a cinephile should see this movie for themselves.
I think there is a certain hype to the purely negative reviews. Messy - sure, but still worthwhile. And agreed: the performances - in particular the 2 leads - are impressive.
I loved the first film, for many of the reasons you mentioned regarding Joaquin Phoenix. But for some reason since the first trailer came out for this film, I’ve had little interest. Man I’m sad they dropped the ball so hard. I love Gaga in everything she does too.
My $0.02 on this movie: POTENTIAL SPOILERS FOLLOW: I thought it was by the far best film I've seen this year. I liked the first movie, but this one was superior in my estimation. Here's what I took from the movie: The theme of the movie is the integration of two halves of a person. Arthur is a man of two halves; Arthur Fleck, and Joker. The movie explores the tension of those two sides, and how people around him try to fit him into one box or the other. His defense attorney is convinced that he IS Arthur, and the Joker is an aberrant part of his personality, the shadow self. Arthur takes drugs to suppress his other half, and tries to deny it. Lee and Joker's followers on the outside, on the other hand, are convinced he IS Joker, and it is the Arthur part of his personality that is an aberration. Both sides work throughout the film to try and mold Arthur in their own image, leading to the tension of the movie. While the defense attorney represents rationality, Lee represents the irrational.
The clearly separated two halves of the movie (in Arkham and in the courtroom) are suggestive of the movies theme of two halves. Arthur starts the movie in Arkham believing he is Arthur and not the Joker, and by the middle point in the courtroom his view has switched. Both these assessments of Arthur are wrong, and at the end of the movie Arthur recognize that he is BOTH Arthur and JOKER. He is no longer a victim of other people's representations of him, but he is now fully integrated and cognizant of who he is in totality. This might be informed by Jungian ideas of assimilating the shadow part of one's personality. In the end, Arthur/Joker is integrated as an individual and has the possibility of a happy ending, however the film is tragic in its refusal to give that to him.
As for the musical sections, these for me were a metaphorical representation of the intense feelings that a new relationship can create, and with Joker's psychosis make sense in the structure of the movie. Joker as a character is very performative, and so in this regard as well musical numbers make perfect sense. However, the folie a deux isn't just that between Joker and Lee; it is as much between Joker and his defense attorney, as in both relationships a shared delusion as to the reality of Arthur's personality is being fostered.
Anyway, sorry for the too long post.
TL;DR: Go see this movie, it's great.
Sounds interesting. It seems that the people that took the wrong message from the first film are really butt hurt by the sequel.
Exactly
Hollywood is so funny. They will wag their finger in your face and get mad when you dont pay them for it
The best Hollywood movie made in 2024 and one of the most mesmerizing performances (Phoenix) ever captured on a film.
I'm perplexed by the negative review(s). Are You all blind?
Phoenix is fantastic …. The film isn’t
I do agree, but only with the first part of Your statement..
Camera and (technical production on the whole) is fantastic as well, pacing/rhythm (once You let yourself to be hypnotized by Phoenix's portrait of his broken protagonist) is spot on, 45 minutes of live-recorder singing moments is tastefully done (often intimate and touching) while multiple social meta-commentaries (in otherwise simple - not simplistic - narative) surprising
What a wonderful and (in the context of it´s high-budget creating process and expectations) daring marvel of a film
WHAT? YOU DON’T LIKE A MOVIE I LIKE? ARE YOU GUYS BLIND?
How much is Warner Bros. paying you?
:) Too much for You to comprehend, kiddo.. Paranoid android indeed, go and dream of electric sheep
Yes, Joker: Folie à Deux is display of a highest filmic merit while it's audience (sadly) too numb, tasteless and ignorant to appreciate it.. Perhaps in a decade or two from now, it will be rediscovered and finally deservedly revered.
This movie appears disliked. So before I watch your review, I gotta give my unfiltered reaction: loved it
10/10
Okay. I'm ready to argue now!
Just tell me what movie this is most similar to. I can’t decide based on these reviews if I’ll like it.
@@BingoNamo-gb8pz Taxi Driver/Clockwork Orange.
I saw Joker (2019) and the Swedish movie Gräns/Border (2018) in quick succession. Both films deal with outsiders who live in a society that does not understand them and in which they cannot function. In both cases, the acceptance of the true self leads to a new path marked by violence and alienation. Whilst Joker felt like good entertainment to me (I definitely got a bang for my bucks ), Gräns really got under my skin. It´s the far more humane and emotional approach. If you haven´t seen it, I highly recommend it.
Can’t think of an audience less interested in a musical than people who liked Joker. Only worse mismatch would be if Joker was pitched as the sequel to a musical.
Such an odd thing to say about an R rated movie that made a billion dollars, tell me what is a person who liked the first one like? Now I haven't seen the movie however most of the criticism of the movie is not because the musical numbers but because it felt disrespectful to the first movie and the protagonist. I haven't seen a single reviewer that I align with my tastes gives this an endorsement so I'm skipping this movie.
@@ponli7532 Shot: what an odd thing to say that people who liked Joker won't want to watch a musical
Chaser: "I'm skipping this movie."
@@ArthurAugustyn Your assertion that it failed because that it's a musical or that all people who liked the Joker don't like musicals is nonsense that's my point. I'm choosing to skip because nearly everyone says it's terrible.
@@ponli7532 So you agree the movie looks bad but wanted to go out of your way to say the reason I think it looks bad is wrong?
@@ArthurAugustyn You didn't speak for yourself, you spoke for everyone who liked the first movie. If you just spoke for yourself, I wouldn't have responded to you.
I have a decent eye for talent and I think you'd be doing yourself a huge favor if you upgraded your setup.
If she likes it, I'll keep my tickets to see it in IMAX on Thursday. If she doesn't like it, I'll just not go and keep the tickets, to save someone else from wasting their money.
The real joker kills Arthur. There. I ruined it for everyone
Not me! I find it hilarious and yet another slander against the character.
As someone who worked on this for more than a month there’s SO much I am wondering why they left on the cutting floor. That being said amazing performances but I wanted more of an arc to latch onto
AFAIC, a movie isn't officially reviewed until you review it! Report card time for the Joker !