Thanks for that solve! ChinStrap and I had a lot of fun assembling this. The basic idea was to use dynamic fog for a very linear liar puzzle and admittedly we went quite hard on the difficulty. The new dynamic fog mechanic allows very granular control with revealing the "clue trios" which used to be much harder with conventional fog. Fillable outside clues were also something I wanted to try with dynamic fog for a while but we ended up having "remote fog clearance" only from the interior 9x9 to make it more intuitive and prevent solvers from chasing outside digits. Shoutout to ViKingPrimes "What Lies Beyond The Fog" series which was a big inspiration.
I noticed the granular control watching Simon's solve! He and I solved a couple digits in a different order around his 45 minute mark, and as I was watching, I thought, "that's not when the 9 cage in box 8 appeared for me!" And sure enough, I went back and was right. I love that you all (genius setters) will be able to control that on these puzzles.
Simon: I'm going to use the same colouring for two different meanings. Me: That's going to confuse you later. Simon: *gets confused* Simon: I'm not going to mark which cages are wrong. Me: That's going to confuse you later. Simon: *gets confused"
I was surprised that Simon didn't just uniformly mark all correct cages in green and all incorrect cages in red. But then he started using green for a second purpose in the perimeter, and I'm like wait, what, no, please!
You have to love Simon's Brain, at 31:30 he works out that if the 8 cage in box 1 is real then the 5 comes first to fulfil the 3 skyscraper. Then at 35:28 he works out that this cage is genuine, but completely forgets what he worked out 4 minutes earlier and spends 10 minutes trying to find the next step 😂
Yeah, that‘s actually a little painful to watch. 😂 Again, he sees all the logic that requires keeping track of umpteen hypotheticals, but forgets about the obvious stuff that even I can spot. 😂
I have notices that the more complex the puzzle, the more likely Simon is to miss something simple like basic sudoku. Still, he’s brilliant in his ability to solve the actually difficult logical deductions.
That Endgame was ASTONISHING indeed. I got it straight away with the last 9 cage. 2 of them appeared in quite a short amount of time but the third one took a bit longer, that was a bit suspicious. I kept it in mind and once I saw all those white cells after the 8 I knew it was going to happen. Where is the last 9 cage? One of the best questions I've ever asked myself. This was brilliant, thank you Simon for the solve and thanks to ChinStrap and gdc for this masterpiece! :-)
My spider sense was also shouting at me about the last 9 cage - what a brilliant idea! 112:30 for me, after having spent way too much time not finding the also brilliant r0c3 clue, and finally turning to Simon for help.
Whenever Simon is hopelessly stuck in the middle of the solve, the way out is one of these 2 things: 1. basic sudoku (70% of the time) 2. something he hes already discovered but decided to not pencilmark (30% of the time)
I fully recognize this is the kind of thing it's easier to keep track of when you're watching versus when you're actually trying to solve, but it's so hard not to shout at the screen when the solver noticed a piece of logic as an "if this is true" hypothetical and then later that condition does turn out to be true but they've forgotten about that deduction (Specifically the way the 3 skyscraper forces the order of the 35 in the box one 8-cage once that cage is shown to be true)
Was trying to figure out a nice way to say just that! Ty I love Simon and would never want to hurt his feelings but I do think that is more my frustration than him getting stuck in general. Not that it is frustration with him specifically but that I can’t go back 9n time and say remember you found x. Lol
@@st3phgr1ce Yeah was hoping it came across that way, it's honestly less frustrated with the solver and more frustrated on their behalf, like I feel bad for him that he's stuck when he already got it!
@@HunterJE I don't think you could have expressed that any better. Furthermore, I would argue that Simon - as well as the whole community - knows the respect you have for him. He could not take it the wrong way.
I think that Simon's difficulty is trying to respect the setter and the community. He wants to be logical and show all of his working out. As a fallible human I would perhaps jot down these ideas and refer to them later. But Simon always wants to solve these on hard mode for our enjoyment. If that means he has 7 old deductions and 3 new ones in his mind at the same time of course he's going to miss something.
Is it weird to watch these videos to fall asleep to 🤭? Simon, your presence is so calming :). Also following these quite challenging sudoku solves tunes out all other thoughts in my head :). The puzzles are all so unique and captivating! Its calming, but not boring in any way :)
In hindsight the last 9 cage being hidden is brilliant, but it didn’t feel brilliant when I stared at the grid for an hour and a half losing my mind because I forgot to look for the last cage.
wowww I had heard murmurings about this puzzle but hadn't seen it yet. That was indeed a brilliant construction from these two great and creative minds. Absolutely love that kind of ending - perfect use of dynamic fog! So cheeky. And a very apt reaction from Simon. Bravo chaps 👏
That final "reveal" in terms of the fog was genius. My first thought was that it seemed weirdly useless, but it was anything but. Absolutely brilliant!
I feel like it might be a mistake to use the same shading to mark "used up" skyscraper clues that already in use to mark "true" cages, including some definitely not used up skyscraper clues (for instance, the 3 above column 2 forces the 9 in that column in to box 4, since it must hide 6, 7 and 8)
Totally agree, as a viewer it got very confusing. Maybe keep the green for true cages, circle the completed skyscraper cells, and half-shade the false cage corners in red?
I love the dynamic fog mechanic! It points me in the direction i have to look :) Less then two hours for this puzzle - i saw the "Endgame" coming from far away, i was thinking about it when I read the rules. However, i never thought you could construct it in a way, where looking for the missing cage actually is the final missing piece... this puzzle is just art, and I was sad when it ended!
Regarding the solve counter for The Hobbit hunt, Blobz said it only counts solves since the hunt went live. So that's 17 people who already finished all 19 puzzles, it doesn't include testers.
I finished in 121:14 minutes. This was one of the most amazing puzzles I have done. It's a brilliant idea that was executed perfectly. The two truths one lie rule worked really well with fog of war. There were so many creative moments in this puzzle that it is hard to say which is my favorite. That being said, remembering that a 9 cage was missing led to one of the sickest deductions I have ever seen. The geometry surrounding that was a work of genius. It was honestly one of the most exciting moments I have experienced solving a sudoku. I audibly said "No Way!" that's how good it was. This has to be one of my favorites. Great Puzzle!
@1:22:20 That big checkboard fog clear is showing you that It's Sudokuing Time as there are no longer cages containing Skyscraper clues (except possibly right side of row 4), and probably supposed to indicate in general that there probably isn't another set of 3 hidden cages in the grid. At least I'd guess that is the intention, to signal a different phase of the solve, kind of.
Simon was a bit confused about how the skyscraper clues aren't affected by the lying cage totals. But the second thing to appreciate is that while some of the cage totals lie, the digits are still not allowed to repeat in those cages.
I love that by this point in my viewing experience of this lovely channel, I can hear the sentence: “Oh no, don’t tell me we’re chocolate teapotted are we?” and I know exactly what’s meant by it. 😊
In the end I hadn't noticed that r7c3 couldn't be 6. So there was one more option for the 9 cage (3 in r6c3 and 6 in r7c3). However, I noticed that r7c3 was 6 or r5c6 was 6, so r5c3 could not be 6. So that only left r5c6 for the 6 in row 5.
I did something very similar. I didn't realise (at the time, I did later) that r4c2 couldn't be 6 either. So I had a third possible place for my 9 cage, in r4c2-c3. But this was also a 6-3 pair, and AGAIN stopped r5c3 from being a 6, leaving only r5c6 for 6 in the row. I thought it was incredible setting. I mean, it was incredible setting, just not quite as incredible as I originally thought. 😂
I'll never pass on a gdc feature. Said it before - will say it again, LOVE dynamic fog. Makes me really feel the flow of the logic and learn a ton with variant sudoku. Got stuck a few times with this one, ended with a 1h10. 10/10 would fog again. Thank you ChinStrap & gdc for this fantastic creation - still cannot wait for further expansion on this dynamic fog rule. Also can confirm - seeing that splash of white in the later stages and "finding" the last 9 clue was a question in my mind even seeing the 16s and size 4 "5" cage etc. My brain kept saying "I NEED IT!" to solve - turned out I kind of did, just not when I thought I did.
i think you should experiment with using the line tool to outline correct / incorrect digits or "coloring" boxes in fog of war puzzles, since it's easier to see whether fog has been cleared or not!
One thing that Simon didnt specifically call out, although it wasn't possible at the time, was once he realized there was a missing 9 cage, theoretically it could have been one of the greyed out border cells, as a single cell 9 cage. Of course none of them could have actually been a 9 based on the solved digits in the puzzle. But when i first realized there was a missing 9 cage and there were so many cleared cells, my initial instinct was that it would be a 9 skyscraper - which I then immediately ruled out just from the placement of the 9s in the grid.
Good point! I did remember to look for this. Not difficult to rule out, since you only need to check the rows/columns with a 9 at the end, but it should be done.
1:11:11 finish. It took me a minute to figure out that there was a missing cage, but while I was considering, I was filling in all of the missing pencil marks. I loved how you put the 8 in, and up popped 8 cages, and you put in a 5, and there were 5 cages. So much fun, and slipping in the wrogn cages was a nice twist. Excellent job!
possible feature addition to the solver app would be the ability to turn Fog Reveal off and on. so you could turn it off to illustrate possible solutions to the grid without triggering for reveals (or non-reveals)
Yes!! Or another pencil option, which you mark but does not count towards showing the grid or affects the check button. And it would be easier to erase everything written by him... Doing more than one color and layer for this pencil would be perfect
I think I remember one of the very first fog of war puzzles Simon attempted, he had to solve in some bespoke software because Sven's SudokuPad (understandably) didn't have the fog mechanic built in yet. That bespoke software had a toggle button for entering "test mode" that allowed digits to be entered without clearing fog. I think it also immediately reverted the grid to the pre-test mode state when turned off. Something like that would be a great addition, even for non-fog puzzles. Although I do remember it confusing Simon when he forgot he was in test mode, and couldn't understand why correct digits didn't clear the fog anymore 😂. You would have to make it very obvious when in test mode.
One thing I do when I get stuck on a skyscraper puzzle is to check if I know more than I think about where 9s can go. That habit came in handy on this one.
To be honest, I'd solve it the same time as Simon did if I was more attentive. But I've stared at the last stage of grid for another 90 minutes still not thinking about that hidden "9" cage then gave up. What a brilliant move!
Took me 2 hours, had to check this video to find the hidden secret at the ending! Amazingly clever puzzle that while probably more difficult for me, was still rediculously enjoyable.
Love this puzzle! Great setting, and great solve. I only wish you were more consistent with colorings - maybe coloring cells of correct/wrogn cages and using a green circle to "check off" completed skyscraper clues? Either way, loved this one
That was a tough nut to crack! I made several mistakes and had to backtrack, but managed to complete it in about an hour longer than Simon's time. Have to admire the skill and humour that goes into creating a puzzle like this.
That is an absolutely amazing puzzle. The first set of 3-cages kind of lulled me into wondering why this video was well over an hour. ... then I found out. :) That was a tough, but thoroughly enjoyable solve! Love it.
The moment I put in the 8 which revealed white squares I saw it prevented loads of cages from forming, leaving me to find the last 9 cages. Unfortunately, that was as far as I could get. I made a mistake earlier on so I couldn't finish the puzzle. Great solve and fantastic puzzle.
01:32:14 for me. I think I could hear Simon yelling at me for taking so long to figure out the missing cage :) It was a fantastic, yet hard puzzle! Kind comment.
Well if Simon's a muppet then I'm a bigger muppet, cause that 8 set of clues had me stuck for an hour, and he found it in only a few minutes. Thanks for the assistance Simon.
Wow, how can you ever solve such a brilliantly tricky puzzle? That is the first question that comes to mind, but obviously it can be solved by some brilliant solvers. But now the real Wow question is, how could one ever construct such a brilliantly clever puzzle!?
Gosh darn it. I was proud of myself for getting through most of this in an hour. Then the missing 9 cage clue threw me off and I spent an hour beating my head into a wall before going to bed. That was clever, and I totally missed it.
Poor Simon. At 31:26 he figures out that if the 8-cage in box 1 is correct, then it's a 35 pair specifically with 5 above the 3. Later at 35:30 he confirms that the 8-cage box is correct. But he's forgotten he already worked out the order. It takes him another 11 minutes until 46:30 before notices the skyscraper impact again. 😖
Simon struggles with this one, and I would argue the reason is the best (perhaps only) way to get to the solution of this puzzle is with a proper and thorough Goodliffing!
OMG! I was doing so well but had to buckle and watch to finish off. The ASTONISHING should have given me a clue; but it didn't and I sat scratching my head for ages wondering where to go. Great setting, and the lightbulb moment reveal from Simon was A*
Wow! Just noticed that the fog is dynamic in the way, that some areas are revealed not by a specific digit placed, but only by the combination of several ones. Nine cage in box 8 is opened only after placing 3 in boxes 1 and 2, but doesn’t work if only one is there.
Got this one in 16:19:24... yeah it took me a while, and it was a bit frustrating in the middle, but I got there eventually and had a lot of fun! I also loved the final reveal.
Around 1:11:00, Simon got a little lucky. He used the 1234 pencil marks that were in the right-side 5 cage. However, he'd placed them there when he was considering the potential values for a real 5-cage, _not_ for what was possible for the skyscrapers. It turns out that they _were_ correct for the skyscrapers, though. Phew. :)
No. No luck involved. Rewatch from 1:02:20. He enters the pencilmarks 1234 because 4 is the maximum available due to the skyscraper clues. It has nothing to do with the 5 cage.
"Three in the corner" animations work with the corners that you don't have to fill out, btw. (Sorry if this is discovered in the vid, which I didn't watch.) Cool puzzle, fit to my brain.
I am a little confused about the incorrect 5 clue. Did I miss some sudoku implications that would make the 34 still valid to be used in the cage? I realize the fog cleared for the 6, so it was correct but I don’t understand the logic that says those digits must still be low…
They still had to be valid skyscraper clues. The positioning of the 789 in box 9 meant it was impossible for any of them to be higher than 4 because they would be seeing at least a 7 as the second digit in their row
Yeah the pencil marks he used were theoretical ones he made when thinking about if the cage was valid. Also interesting to note the placed 6 didn't actually clear any fog, it was cleared already. That's what sent me to the comments to see if they caused problems down the line 😁
If you replay the video from around 1:02:23, in the next twenty seconds he explains the maximum those digits can be is 4, for the skyscraper clues to work. It has nothing to do with the 5 cage. No luck involved.
1:22:00 So I was doing the puzzle myself and going back to the video when I got stuck, and I have discovered that with this dynamic fog, unless you have all the correct inputs already on the board, certain things won't happen. I had the 8 in r2c6, but I hadn't put in the 6 in r3c4 yet bcuz I overlooked it, and the fog wasn't cleared unless both the 8 and the 6 were in place. I just find the mechanics remarkable :0
@@exa2993I'm saying this as someone who hasn't joined the Discord server, but I get the impression you could get a lot of helpful advice from other setters if you joined the Discord server. I think there's a link in every video description.
1:08:07 the 5 cage on the right (if true but its not) was forced to be a 2-3 pair as the 9 is above it meaning it cant be a 1-4 as you already have one in the column by sudoku. which follows onto your explanation
I recently found lots of classicals from Simon. He opened an advanced program that used computer logic. And he defeated the puzzle easier with his own logic. Want more of that. And I have not solved Jay Dyer's nabner and doubler puzzle.
i got the gist of the 8 revealing lots of white cells rather quick, my first thought was "what is still hiding in the fog?" and then i realized that i was still missing a 9 cage, and there it was
1:02:57 ... I did have to backtrack a bit when I erroneously thought a particular cage was true and led to a block (AFTER revealing more cells), but I did find the true path through ... including the incredible finish Nice puzzle!
7:18 Wow I haven't heard of Chain Bear in 2 years! He stopped uploading videos but I'm glad to hear he's still around. Also this is not where I would have expected to hear about this guy...
I don't think it was any more complicated. I did it the same way, because you're already thinking about skyscrapers to limit it to 2 or 3 in the first place. It was obvious that for a skyscraper clue of 2 to work, the first skyscraper clue seen has to be 8, not 7.
@@RichSmith77 that's actually completely fair! I get scared of skyscrapers and LOVE killer sudoku so my brain immediately was like oh, you can't repeat a number
OMG! I was ways ahead compared to Simon but struggled like hell the last hour or so. i didn´t figure his discovery at 1:28:00 though it´s so easy once you think about it...
This one was too hard for me. I needed help twice. Didn't see that the two 5 clues didn't work together, and, at the end, I didn't think to look for the last 9 cage. The rest I was able to do.
Over two hours. Needed help to see that I had to think about the wrogn 16 cage, didn't see what yo do with the 5 cages, and didn't even think about the third 9 cage at the end. I thought about that cage earlier on and forgot all about it when I was stuck and needed it. I'm just not good at wrogn puzzles or skyscraper puzzles.
1:10:44 knowing that the 5 cage in the bottom right was not correct, why is it right to rely on the 1-2-3-4 pencil marks done before? The solution path follows from this assumption that I do not understand
He explained why 1 cannot be a skyscraper digit because in that cage 2 cannot be placed due to 9 blocking the 2nd row, and I'm just wondering how much time will it take to write 2 into the first column's skyscraper.
Thanks for that solve! ChinStrap and I had a lot of fun assembling this. The basic idea was to use dynamic fog for a very linear liar puzzle and admittedly we went quite hard on the difficulty. The new dynamic fog mechanic allows very granular control with revealing the "clue trios" which used to be much harder with conventional fog. Fillable outside clues were also something I wanted to try with dynamic fog for a while but we ended up having "remote fog clearance" only from the interior 9x9 to make it more intuitive and prevent solvers from chasing outside digits. Shoutout to ViKingPrimes "What Lies Beyond The Fog" series which was a big inspiration.
I noticed the granular control watching Simon's solve! He and I solved a couple digits in a different order around his 45 minute mark, and as I was watching, I thought, "that's not when the 9 cage in box 8 appeared for me!" And sure enough, I went back and was right. I love that you all (genius setters) will be able to control that on these puzzles.
Simon: I'm going to use the same colouring for two different meanings.
Me: That's going to confuse you later.
Simon: *gets confused*
Simon: I'm not going to mark which cages are wrong.
Me: That's going to confuse you later.
Simon: *gets confused"
I was surprised that Simon didn't just uniformly mark all correct cages in green and all incorrect cages in red. But then he started using green for a second purpose in the perimeter, and I'm like wait, what, no, please!
You have to love Simon's Brain, at 31:30 he works out that if the 8 cage in box 1 is real then the 5 comes first to fulfil the 3 skyscraper.
Then at 35:28 he works out that this cage is genuine, but completely forgets what he worked out 4 minutes earlier and spends 10 minutes trying to find the next step 😂
Yeah, that‘s actually a little painful to watch. 😂
Again, he sees all the logic that requires keeping track of umpteen hypotheticals, but forgets about the obvious stuff that even I can spot. 😂
I have notices that the more complex the puzzle, the more likely Simon is to miss something simple like basic sudoku. Still, he’s brilliant in his ability to solve the actually difficult logical deductions.
That Endgame was ASTONISHING indeed. I got it straight away with the last 9 cage. 2 of them appeared in quite a short amount of time but the third one took a bit longer, that was a bit suspicious. I kept it in mind and once I saw all those white cells after the 8 I knew it was going to happen. Where is the last 9 cage? One of the best questions I've ever asked myself. This was brilliant, thank you Simon for the solve and thanks to ChinStrap and gdc for this masterpiece! :-)
I was less clever, I did all possible pencilmark, then look carefully at the clues I probably forgot, then 'eureka' ^_^.
What a puzzle !
My spider sense was also shouting at me about the last 9 cage - what a brilliant idea! 112:30 for me, after having spent way too much time not finding the also brilliant r0c3 clue, and finally turning to Simon for help.
Whenever Simon is hopelessly stuck in the middle of the solve, the way out is one of these 2 things:
1. basic sudoku (70% of the time)
2. something he hes already discovered but decided to not pencilmark (30% of the time)
I fully recognize this is the kind of thing it's easier to keep track of when you're watching versus when you're actually trying to solve, but it's so hard not to shout at the screen when the solver noticed a piece of logic as an "if this is true" hypothetical and then later that condition does turn out to be true but they've forgotten about that deduction
(Specifically the way the 3 skyscraper forces the order of the 35 in the box one 8-cage once that cage is shown to be true)
Was trying to figure out a nice way to say just that! Ty I love Simon and would never want to hurt his feelings but I do think that is more my frustration than him getting stuck in general. Not that it is frustration with him specifically but that I can’t go back 9n time and say remember you found x. Lol
@@st3phgr1ce Yeah was hoping it came across that way, it's honestly less frustrated with the solver and more frustrated on their behalf, like I feel bad for him that he's stuck when he already got it!
@@HunterJE I don't think you could have expressed that any better. Furthermore, I would argue that Simon - as well as the whole community - knows the respect you have for him. He could not take it the wrong way.
I think that Simon's difficulty is trying to respect the setter and the community. He wants to be logical and show all of his working out. As a fallible human I would perhaps jot down these ideas and refer to them later. But Simon always wants to solve these on hard mode for our enjoyment. If that means he has 7 old deductions and 3 new ones in his mind at the same time of course he's going to miss something.
Is it weird to watch these videos to fall asleep to 🤭? Simon, your presence is so calming :). Also following these quite challenging sudoku solves tunes out all other thoughts in my head :). The puzzles are all so unique and captivating! Its calming, but not boring in any way :)
Funny enough, I've listened to Simon for years to go to sleep. His voice is so relaxing. 😴
He’s aware this is a thing and from him talking about it in videos I learnt the word soporific. So there is your word of the day ;)
In hindsight the last 9 cage being hidden is brilliant, but it didn’t feel brilliant when I stared at the grid for an hour and a half losing my mind because I forgot to look for the last cage.
wowww I had heard murmurings about this puzzle but hadn't seen it yet. That was indeed a brilliant construction from these two great and creative minds. Absolutely love that kind of ending - perfect use of dynamic fog! So cheeky. And a very apt reaction from Simon. Bravo chaps 👏
Yes a 5/5 Fog of war puzzle set two amazing setters solved by a brilliant solver. Best way to spend an evening.
That final "reveal" in terms of the fog was genius. My first thought was that it seemed weirdly useless, but it was anything but. Absolutely brilliant!
I feel like it might be a mistake to use the same shading to mark "used up" skyscraper clues that already in use to mark "true" cages, including some definitely not used up skyscraper clues (for instance, the 3 above column 2 forces the 9 in that column in to box 4, since it must hide 6, 7 and 8)
Totally agree, as a viewer it got very confusing. Maybe keep the green for true cages, circle the completed skyscraper cells, and half-shade the false cage corners in red?
When solving while setting I used the pen tool to mark them off.
Yeah, usually Simon is not afraid to use all the colours he has available, but somehow today he choose to mark everything in a single colour :)
I love the dynamic fog mechanic! It points me in the direction i have to look :)
Less then two hours for this puzzle - i saw the "Endgame" coming from far away, i was thinking about it when I read the rules.
However, i never thought you could construct it in a way, where looking for the missing cage actually is the final missing piece... this puzzle is just art, and I was sad when it ended!
Regarding the solve counter for The Hobbit hunt, Blobz said it only counts solves since the hunt went live. So that's 17 people who already finished all 19 puzzles, it doesn't include testers.
Also, the "8 hours ago" that Simon mentioned, was erroneously computed because of a TimeZone calculation bug. This bug has now been fixed.
Man that missing 9 cage almost broke my sanity!
Lovely :)
I thought they didn't bother with third 9 cage on purpose.
I finished in 121:14 minutes. This was one of the most amazing puzzles I have done. It's a brilliant idea that was executed perfectly. The two truths one lie rule worked really well with fog of war. There were so many creative moments in this puzzle that it is hard to say which is my favorite. That being said, remembering that a 9 cage was missing led to one of the sickest deductions I have ever seen. The geometry surrounding that was a work of genius. It was honestly one of the most exciting moments I have experienced solving a sudoku. I audibly said "No Way!" that's how good it was. This has to be one of my favorites. Great Puzzle!
@1:22:20 That big checkboard fog clear is showing you that It's Sudokuing Time as there are no longer cages containing Skyscraper clues (except possibly right side of row 4), and probably supposed to indicate in general that there probably isn't another set of 3 hidden cages in the grid. At least I'd guess that is the intention, to signal a different phase of the solve, kind of.
Simon was a bit confused about how the skyscraper clues aren't affected by the lying cage totals. But the second thing to appreciate is that while some of the cage totals lie, the digits are still not allowed to repeat in those cages.
I love that by this point in my viewing experience of this lovely channel, I can hear the sentence: “Oh no, don’t tell me we’re chocolate teapotted are we?” and I know exactly what’s meant by it. 😊
In the end I hadn't noticed that r7c3 couldn't be 6. So there was one more option for the 9 cage (3 in r6c3 and 6 in r7c3). However, I noticed that r7c3 was 6 or r5c6 was 6, so r5c3 could not be 6. So that only left r5c6 for the 6 in row 5.
I did something very similar.
I didn't realise (at the time, I did later) that r4c2 couldn't be 6 either. So I had a third possible place for my 9 cage, in r4c2-c3. But this was also a 6-3 pair, and AGAIN stopped r5c3 from being a 6, leaving only r5c6 for 6 in the row.
I thought it was incredible setting. I mean, it was incredible setting, just not quite as incredible as I originally thought. 😂
I'll never pass on a gdc feature. Said it before - will say it again, LOVE dynamic fog. Makes me really feel the flow of the logic and learn a ton with variant sudoku. Got stuck a few times with this one, ended with a 1h10. 10/10 would fog again. Thank you ChinStrap & gdc for this fantastic creation - still cannot wait for further expansion on this dynamic fog rule.
Also can confirm - seeing that splash of white in the later stages and "finding" the last 9 clue was a question in my mind even seeing the 16s and size 4 "5" cage etc. My brain kept saying "I NEED IT!" to solve - turned out I kind of did, just not when I thought I did.
i think you should experiment with using the line tool to outline correct / incorrect digits or "coloring" boxes in fog of war puzzles, since it's easier to see whether fog has been cleared or not!
One thing that Simon didnt specifically call out, although it wasn't possible at the time, was once he realized there was a missing 9 cage, theoretically it could have been one of the greyed out border cells, as a single cell 9 cage. Of course none of them could have actually been a 9 based on the solved digits in the puzzle. But when i first realized there was a missing 9 cage and there were so many cleared cells, my initial instinct was that it would be a 9 skyscraper - which I then immediately ruled out just from the placement of the 9s in the grid.
Good point!
I did remember to look for this. Not difficult to rule out, since you only need to check the rows/columns with a 9 at the end, but it should be done.
32:35 If Simon with his 200 IQ is a Muppet then what am I?????
1:11:11 finish. It took me a minute to figure out that there was a missing cage, but while I was considering, I was filling in all of the missing pencil marks. I loved how you put the 8 in, and up popped 8 cages, and you put in a 5, and there were 5 cages. So much fun, and slipping in the wrogn cages was a nice twist. Excellent job!
"The easiest way to hide a lie is between two truths"
xfiles- I don't remember the episode or season number.
I was thinking about this when Simon was trying to disambiguate the three initial cages at the start of the puzzle.
possible feature addition to the solver app would be the ability to turn Fog Reveal off and on. so you could turn it off to illustrate possible solutions to the grid without triggering for reveals (or non-reveals)
Yes!!
Or another pencil option, which you mark but does not count towards showing the grid or affects the check button.
And it would be easier to erase everything written by him... Doing more than one color and layer for this pencil would be perfect
I think I remember one of the very first fog of war puzzles Simon attempted, he had to solve in some bespoke software because Sven's SudokuPad (understandably) didn't have the fog mechanic built in yet. That bespoke software had a toggle button for entering "test mode" that allowed digits to be entered without clearing fog. I think it also immediately reverted the grid to the pre-test mode state when turned off. Something like that would be a great addition, even for non-fog puzzles.
Although I do remember it confusing Simon when he forgot he was in test mode, and couldn't understand why correct digits didn't clear the fog anymore 😂. You would have to make it very obvious when in test mode.
@@RichSmith77 Ooh, i like that. a total test mode and it returns to the original fork point when you turn it off
One thing I do when I get stuck on a skyscraper puzzle is to check if I know more than I think about where 9s can go. That habit came in handy on this one.
Capt. Coloring here! Amazing puzzle and solve made more amazing by Simon’s failure/refusal to continue coloring the true cages!
WOW! What an ending indeed! It is amazing how the word "exactly" in the rules was the key. Such a fun one!
To be honest, I'd solve it the same time as Simon did if I was more attentive. But I've stared at the last stage of grid for another 90 minutes still not thinking about that hidden "9" cage then gave up. What a brilliant move!
5/5 for difficulty? Yes, I'm looking forward to (watching) you having a go at this puzzle as well Simon.
This is one of my favorite puzzles I've seen on the channel! Amazing
What a great puzzle. Loved it, took a long time to get that last hidden cage. I thought about it earlier, then forgot to look for it when it mattered.
Took me 2 hours, had to check this video to find the hidden secret at the ending! Amazingly clever puzzle that while probably more difficult for me, was still rediculously enjoyable.
Love this puzzle! Great setting, and great solve.
I only wish you were more consistent with colorings - maybe coloring cells of correct/wrogn cages and using a green circle to "check off" completed skyscraper clues? Either way, loved this one
That was a tough nut to crack! I made several mistakes and had to backtrack, but managed to complete it in about an hour longer than Simon's time. Have to admire the skill and humour that goes into creating a puzzle like this.
That is an absolutely amazing puzzle. The first set of 3-cages kind of lulled me into wondering why this video was well over an hour. ... then I found out. :) That was a tough, but thoroughly enjoyable solve! Love it.
The moment I put in the 8 which revealed white squares I saw it prevented loads of cages from forming, leaving me to find the last 9 cages. Unfortunately, that was as far as I could get. I made a mistake earlier on so I couldn't finish the puzzle. Great solve and fantastic puzzle.
01:32:14 for me. I think I could hear Simon yelling at me for taking so long to figure out the missing cage :) It was a fantastic, yet hard puzzle! Kind comment.
brilliant Simon, you always find the way and give credit to the setters. Thank you.
I managed to do the earlier stuff a bit faster but didn’t think of the 9 cage for even longer than Simon. Wonderful puzzle (as always)
55:17 for me. I got stuck quite early on, but managed to push through. Incredibly hard puzzle, but very rewarding once you solve it.
It just clears a fog in an unhelpful way. This summarizes a lot of this puzzle.
Well if Simon's a muppet then I'm a bigger muppet, cause that 8 set of clues had me stuck for an hour, and he found it in only a few minutes. Thanks for the assistance Simon.
Wow, how can you ever solve such a brilliantly tricky puzzle? That is the first question that comes to mind, but obviously it can be solved by some brilliant solvers. But now the real Wow question is, how could one ever construct such a brilliantly clever puzzle!?
Gosh darn it. I was proud of myself for getting through most of this in an hour. Then the missing 9 cage clue threw me off and I spent an hour beating my head into a wall before going to bed. That was clever, and I totally missed it.
Poor Simon.
At 31:26 he figures out that if the 8-cage in box 1 is correct, then it's a 35 pair specifically with 5 above the 3.
Later at 35:30 he confirms that the 8-cage box is correct. But he's forgotten he already worked out the order.
It takes him another 11 minutes until 46:30 before notices the skyscraper impact again. 😖
Simon struggles with this one, and I would argue the reason is the best (perhaps only) way to get to the solution of this puzzle is with a proper and thorough Goodliffing!
Admire the genius of this type of setting, gdc needs to stream their setting so we can see the genius at work. 🙏
OMG! I was doing so well but had to buckle and watch to finish off. The ASTONISHING should have given me a clue; but it didn't and I sat scratching my head for ages wondering where to go. Great setting, and the lightbulb moment reveal from Simon was A*
Wow! Just noticed that the fog is dynamic in the way, that some areas are revealed not by a specific digit placed, but only by the combination of several ones.
Nine cage in box 8 is opened only after placing 3 in boxes 1 and 2, but doesn’t work if only one is there.
Got this one in 16:19:24... yeah it took me a while, and it was a bit frustrating in the middle, but I got there eventually and had a lot of fun!
I also loved the final reveal.
Around 1:11:00, Simon got a little lucky. He used the 1234 pencil marks that were in the right-side 5 cage. However, he'd placed them there when he was considering the potential values for a real 5-cage, _not_ for what was possible for the skyscrapers. It turns out that they _were_ correct for the skyscrapers, though. Phew. :)
No. No luck involved. Rewatch from 1:02:20. He enters the pencilmarks 1234 because 4 is the maximum available due to the skyscraper clues. It has nothing to do with the 5 cage.
"Three in the corner" animations work with the corners that you don't have to fill out, btw. (Sorry if this is discovered in the vid, which I didn't watch.) Cool puzzle, fit to my brain.
Just solved this - what great ideas.
I am a little confused about the incorrect 5 clue. Did I miss some sudoku implications that would make the 34 still valid to be used in the cage? I realize the fog cleared for the 6, so it was correct but I don’t understand the logic that says those digits must still be low…
No, I think that was a really unfortunate coincidence. He got (un)lucky. I would love to see how people figured that part out logically.
They still had to be valid skyscraper clues. The positioning of the 789 in box 9 meant it was impossible for any of them to be higher than 4 because they would be seeing at least a 7 as the second digit in their row
I was going to comment the same. I think it was fortunate or he just skipped explaining that the 7 and 8 being so early limited them to a 3 4 pair.
Yeah the pencil marks he used were theoretical ones he made when thinking about if the cage was valid.
Also interesting to note the placed 6 didn't actually clear any fog, it was cleared already.
That's what sent me to the comments to see if they caused problems down the line 😁
If you replay the video from around 1:02:23, in the next twenty seconds he explains the maximum those digits can be is 4, for the skyscraper clues to work. It has nothing to do with the 5 cage. No luck involved.
That 9 cage was so brutal. I swear I spent half my solve time searching for the next step, just whittling away with sudoku looking for what to do.
Yup, as soon as all the random cells were revealed, I immediately was drawn to where the last 9 cage would be
0:30 - 0:45 I got stuck at exactly the same point for hours! :D
Chainbear, if you happen to be in the comments, we deeply miss your F1 content! Hope all is well!
1:22:00 So I was doing the puzzle myself and going back to the video when I got stuck, and I have discovered that with this dynamic fog, unless you have all the correct inputs already on the board, certain things won't happen. I had the 8 in r2c6, but I hadn't put in the 6 in r3c4 yet bcuz I overlooked it, and the fog wasn't cleared unless both the 8 and the 6 were in place. I just find the mechanics remarkable :0
Incredible puzzle!
I figured out the missing 9 cage! Populated the entire grid before figuring it out though. Enjoyed the puzzle a lot.
I want to make a sudoku puzzle but the programming side of things look a bit complicated
@@exa2993I'm saying this as someone who hasn't joined the Discord server, but I get the impression you could get a lot of helpful advice from other setters if you joined the Discord server. I think there's a link in every video description.
It's sudoku, Simon. It's always sudoku (specifically the 5 in box 3 😂)
Fantastic puzzle.
1:08:07 the 5 cage on the right (if true but its not) was forced to be a 2-3 pair as the 9 is above it meaning it cant be a 1-4 as you already have one in the column by sudoku. which follows onto your explanation
116:54. Yippee! I think that was my first 5/5 puzzle lol
FOG ME UPPPPP
Lol
I recently found lots of classicals from Simon. He opened an advanced program that used computer logic. And he defeated the puzzle easier with his own logic. Want more of that. And I have not solved Jay Dyer's nabner and doubler puzzle.
The trouble with highlighting inefficiencies in computer solvers is it is a self-defeating problem.
Actually, you can place the 3's in the corner of the whole puzzle (i.e. not the inner 9x9 sudoku) to trigger the 3-in-the-corner effect.
i got the gist of the 8 revealing lots of white cells rather quick, my first thought was "what is still hiding in the fog?" and then i realized that i was still missing a 9 cage, and there it was
1:02:57 ... I did have to backtrack a bit when I erroneously thought a particular cage was true and led to a block (AFTER revealing more cells), but I did find the true path through ... including the incredible finish
Nice puzzle!
loved it!
7:18 Wow I haven't heard of Chain Bear in 2 years! He stopped uploading videos but I'm glad to hear he's still around. Also this is not where I would have expected to hear about this guy...
2:22:52 - My favourite bit was the last 9 cage!
amazing solve and puzzle !
Brilliant puzzle
ooooffff three hours and I got completely hosed at the end... that ending was BRUTALLLLL...
When in doubt... re-read the clues.... then read them again...all of them
Me being super stoked I managed to solve TWO of the puzzle hunt puzzles :D:D:D
Update - THREE!
50:28 very funny to me that Simon proves the cage can't be 2 8 6 using sudoku, but then uses complicated logic to prove it can't be 2 7 7...
I don't think it was any more complicated. I did it the same way, because you're already thinking about skyscrapers to limit it to 2 or 3 in the first place. It was obvious that for a skyscraper clue of 2 to work, the first skyscraper clue seen has to be 8, not 7.
@@RichSmith77 that's actually completely fair! I get scared of skyscrapers and LOVE killer sudoku so my brain immediately was like oh, you can't repeat a number
"It doesn't work, that's beautiful" : QA relates... Developpers...a little less.. And support tends to relate at first, but only as a starting point.
That 9 cage was very sneaky
Brilliant!
OMG! I was ways ahead compared to Simon but struggled like hell the last hour or so. i didn´t figure his discovery at 1:28:00 though it´s so easy once you think about it...
This one was too hard for me. I needed help twice. Didn't see that the two 5 clues didn't work together, and, at the end, I didn't think to look for the last 9 cage. The rest I was able to do.
I love how it's not one individual number that clears an area, but a sequence whatever order uou enter them in that clears some fog
I found last cell by placing 3 into it and then missed dashed line, and then I had to watch Simon to find what I missed.
46:36 I could feel your happiness
Over two hours. Needed help to see that I had to think about the wrogn 16 cage, didn't see what yo do with the 5 cages, and didn't even think about the third 9 cage at the end. I thought about that cage earlier on and forgot all about it when I was stuck and needed it.
I'm just not good at wrogn puzzles or skyscraper puzzles.
1:10:44 knowing that the 5 cage in the bottom right was not correct, why is it right to rely on the 1-2-3-4 pencil marks done before? The solution path follows from this assumption that I do not understand
The 1234 pencilmarks were entered because 4 was the maximum possible for the skyscraper clues, nothing to do with the 5 cage. (Rewatch from 1:02:20)
@@RichSmith77I still do not fully understand, but thanks anyway
Good work
He explained why 1 cannot be a skyscraper digit because in that cage 2 cannot be placed due to 9 blocking the 2nd row, and I'm just wondering how much time will it take to write 2 into the first column's skyscraper.
1:22:45 for me. Whew! That was fun.
Good solve! But you missed the chance to put a 3 in all four corners outside of the grid.
Yes I got the nine cage non-reveal! You asked how many had gotten this.
I asked if there was a hidden cage missing almost immediately after seeing the checkerboard of white cells revealed.
Not me 30 minutes overlooking that not all nine cages are visible 😂😂
I got the ending, but I was so sure I wasn't doing the puzzle properly.
It took me 15 minutes to realize I needed the 9 cage after the big 8 fog clear. 1:09:50 in the end!!