As a physiotherapist this is music to my ears! So happy that the right kind (evidence-based) of information is getting to people. I really dislike that foam rolling is called myofascial release while it is just neuromodulation.
What evidence? Because all I heard here was opinion. Evidence would be peer reviewed research and not one single study was mentioned here. You sound like a very close-minded person looking for ways to validate and reinforce your belief system instead of expanding your views with new and actual evidence. This entire video was fluff.
Great video ! I used the clinical athlete directory to find a PT near me and man he is a blessing. Ben has truly changed my life and has taken me out of the pain which I barely managed to endure for a full year due to FAI and an anterior labrum tear. Dr. Quinn I want to personally thank you for making such informative videos based on evidence based research and the clinical athlete directory. You have changed my life.
@@sjgardne It is. Just got published a few months ago. Titled "Incorporating Foam Rolling After a Walking Warm-up Does Not Increase Hamstring Flexibility"
@@ckipnis10 . Sounds like a very narrow view on the benefit of "Foam Rolling." A better thesis would have been on the overall benefits of foam rolling.
Seriously: Thank you thank you thank you for making these videos. I've been a personal trainer for 9 years and this is easily the best channel I've found on youtube. Love your videos, great information.
I started years ago teaching bootcamp/martial arts at a local academy. Then I earned my cert through NESTA and started training at 24 hour fitness. Now I am certified through ACE and run a private gym for a corporate office :) Been an awesome career!
I used to spend 10-15 minutes foam rolling and using a lacrosse ball after lifting. However as my training time increased and I didn't want to spend the time after I started doing exactly what Dr Quinn has spoke about in this video. I use the foam roller, lacrosse ball and bands to stretch and help gain mobility in the areas that are tight when I am warming up. I have seen no loss in mobility, if anything maybe more and found I move a lot better during my squats and say snatches.
It's our nervous systems that create lasting relief/changes in the body. So in very simple terms, how well we're able to relax and not be in fight or flight while receiving massages determines how well our tissues takes to the work being done.
@@christineharrelson4831 So for long term relief, one must be able to relax the areas of tension on one's own accord. So massages are crutches since they only relieve the symptoms and not the actual cause.
I found that full-range, multi-planar movements along with eccentric exercises (lite hand weights) are very effective at relieve tension or knots. (AKA Dynamic stretching)
Strident Atheist many research studies have shown that blood lactate concentration levels (lactic acid is just a byproduct of glycolysis) actually diminish within minutes post exercise through oxygen uptake. So unless you’re getting a massage 1 min after a workout, your theory is incorrect.
I’m also a DPT, although a new grad. I can’t thank you enough for this information. It gets hard to explain to people that these effects are short term and tissue doesn’t “break.” I’m not sure why we’d want that even if we could do it. I like your example with the heavy barbell, my personal favorite is using the pressure on our feet while standing. Wouldn’t that “break” tissue and turn you into a puddle? Great informative EB video.
I'm not going to say I have any knowledge here, but I have sat for close 15 years, and I can for sure say that takes a toll on your body. I've been seeing drs for 2 years now, and everyone wants to work my "injuries". my only injury ever was a pec tear. after 2 years I know that is never going to help me. I can't find any body like Vinne rehab to fix my posture, so I'm taking it upon myself to release my whole body a few times a week. I use a ball and roller and after 20mins of this I am standing so much taller, arms hang lower, shoulders are behind me, and forearms pop out, and this is because my body is transferring signals? no way. I can see a dramatic difference when getting dressed in how much it's helping my back muscles pop out. I was doing my shoulder 3x a day to help it and my Dr asked what the hell was I doing being it was so lose compared to my good shoulder. self release absolutely 100 percent does restore tissue.
I wish more people would talk about the research behind myofacial release. It is so prevalent that everyone is doing however I have yet to see stable long term results. The questions that Dr. Henock presents are worth asking. Thank you for this video!
I've had a 60 lbs kettlebell for the last year. I have also started having pain and tightness in my left hip flexor (extreme pain standing after sitting for a while). I've noticed that when I do swings and goblets squats with my 60 lb KB 2-4 times a week (3 sets of 10) I become pain free.
Doctor of Physical Therapy student here. Great series on this channel. Thanks! So, to clarify, you are saying that foam rolling is similar to TENS in treating c/o pain (and/or stiffness in an implication involving foam rolling) in that it is a neuro-physiological process (i.e. gating mechanism and other theories associated with sx relief from TENS application) that is short in duration of relief; AND, even though you say " 'perceived' newly gained ROM", the ROM gain post foam rolling IS truly there, but it is due to a process that the literature cannot currently answer with certainty. Is this an accurate summary of what you are saying?
your videos helped me allot man after spending allot of money and being told nothing is wrong when my right side is clearly dropped and scapular wing wich you helped me realize isnt that bad and fixable.thanks again.
Hello! I realize this is an old video but thank you for posting! I’ve recently become really curious about the mechanisms of Manuel therapy and when I ask people tend to make something up as opposed to giving a evidence-based response. Great video!
In the book "Scientific Stretching" Kurz posits that a huge component of stretching is neurological. In essence it sounds like you are saying something similar. That being said, training your body's natural neurological response to stretching is still effective and important for athletes. If your minds natural reaction to stretching is to tense up, and foam rolling combats that response then it is helpful.
This is the exact way I've been doing things for my hip pain in my back squat, do a warm up set then do some foam rolling, do a set then some band distraction, do a set then some hip planes and by the time on my working sets the pains almost gone.
I would like to know how you square this with "tight muscles" that are relieved through pressure techniques. For instance, I had a very tight quad and I used a foam roller to apply pressure to the muscle, then used contract/relax cycles along with breathing techniques to coax the muscle into "letting go". This worked amazingly well and the result was that the huge chorded muscle (that felt like I had a frozen beef tenderloin tucked in there) disolved away and took the pain and tightness with it. I agree that the change is 100% neuromuscular. I don't agree that it is neccessarily a short term sensory distraction. Thanks for your time
I use the foam roller before training to release verterbrae in the thoracic spine by lying on it and stretching, turning and letting the spine loosen up a little bit.
I'm not sure if you still look back at comments on this, but the Rat explanation was enormously helpful. With that being said does Graston tool usage amount to the same effect? Or does that actually bring about physiological change (and bruises)?
What are your thoughts on Active Release Therapy? Does the intense pressure and instrumentation used have any actual physical benefits or is it still sensory? The reason I ask is ART has exploded in popularity and so many fitness enthusiasts swear by it now.
Hi, You talk about short term effects only. That is why I recommend to my athletes to roll 30" to 2' actively before training and between sets. But if you consider stretching for creating a real change (for example someone wtih tight psoas), is it the right strategy to use it for minutes after training or on a rest day relaxed and breathing properly ?
Jack's Team The effect of stretching is actually quite the same. We cannot lengthen our muscles by stretching or foam rolling, we are only making a change in the nervous system, it's called neuromodulation. If we do these things regularly there might be a tissue change, but I haven't read any studies on it. Actually eccentric exercises help to relieve the tight feeling in muscles as well and they produce a tissue change.
This is how I always looked at it: If you stretch once, you're not really going to induce any permanent change on your body. But still, if you stretch once, you still FEEL a temporary difference. You need to stretch consistently over the long term in order to truly change your baseline flexibility. In my opinion, that's how I view foam rolling. One rolling session won't do any permanent change. But foam/ball rolling properly (massaging in general) for at least a few months (consistently) will gradually reward you with the benefits that massaging allegedly gives. Is this fair to say, or does foam rolling offer no/minimal benefits, beyond the perception factor you mentioned, even if practiced over the long term?
I still find it to work wonders on my calves, instantly relieving my tight ankles and shin splints. I basically go on the side of my calf, cross my other leg on top of that one, so then all my bodyweight is on the one calf and my two hands. I then find a tender point, and start plantar flexing/dorsilflexing my ankle and spin it in circles. I've found that the best way to relieve tight ankles. I also do the same for my forearms and my carpal tunnel is gone. But the pain always finds its way back eventually.
Same here. I used to get charley horses in my calves regularly - typically while sleeping. Then I started foam rolling. At first it was nightly, right before bed. A year later, I don't need to anymore, just when I lift.
"Breaking up the cellular structure" sounds a bit different from unsticking tissues that are stuck together. Regrettably, I neglected to post my results on pubmed; but when I first started getting into mobility work, I did a side-by-side comparison of "pec" (any relevant tissues in the pec area) restriction. I first tested both pecs by abducting my arms while maintaining my arms at about a 50-60° angle to the ground in an externally rotated position, and each side turned out to be about the same. I then proceeded to smash only my left pec with a few different tools (the most effective method seemed to be the "tack and floss" method using my hand as the "tack") for about 10-15 minutes, and retested. Upon retesting, my left arm abducted smoothly until the joint ran out of range, while I experienced some restriction (fuzz, stickyness, etc.) in the right pec area as I approached end range. I have ruled out placebo, because: 1) I objectively quantified (the best I could; unfortunately, there exists no unit of measurement to describe tissue fucked-upness) my result, rather than claiming it "feels better" in some abstract way; 2) I did not expect to experience noticeable change.
Are you only talking about rolling up and down length of muscle? What about holding pressure on 'trigger points'/hypertonic muscles for an inhibitory response of relaxing the muscle?
So then if I have lots of tension in my knees, is it basically impossible to meaningfully loosen up those tendons? I've been told by my physical therapist that massaging those tendons would break up scar tissue and allow the stretch to not be so tight.
Dr. Henoch, I have a question. I went to a PT a while ago and he basically said something along the lines of: There is a jello-like structure of acids or something that build up in between the muscle and the bag(?) that holds the muscle, which we feel as the tight, sore spots. And the myofascial manipulation promotes an inflammation response that helps break down the jello. Sorry, I'm unsure of the terminology, because the conversation was in Finnish. Is there any truth to this? Or is it a different thing? Thanks!
Wow man, thats informative! What should i foam roll if my right knee hurts? A little bit inside and down. Not only when i squat also walking all the time. Thank You!
Dr. Quinn do you not think that long term, material mobility changes cannot be made with foam rollers, lacrosse balls, and the like? I am a big fan of banded mobility and loaded positioning to improve mobility but if I roll out my quads on a consistent basis(1-3 times per week) they not only feel better that day but also on the days that no rolling is mobility is done. This compared to the control of me not rolling my quads at all.
Hi Quinn, what about knots/tight spots/trigger points? Do they exist if so what exactly do we solve by getting rid of them? I was also reading a blog by Andreo Spina who agreed with you on what MFR really does, but he did say that that applying pressure and sliding did break up the fibrosis. I can't find the article now though!
also what about going for a sports massage? does that aid recovery or help prevent injury? because when i foam roll, thats essentially what im trying to do. re-create some of the effect i might get at a sports massage. but if i go to get a sports massage its usually not specifically between sets, its just a general massage, and i don't do anything in particular after to "use" the short term effect. so is sports massage a myth too?
you foam roll for the same reason you get a massage. it warms the muscles increasing blood flow while at the same time overriding most of the pain for a short while. its better to foam roll than it is not to thats for sure haha
Especially when increasing ankle mobility, foam rolling is one of the keys to help mobility obviously if paired with stretching. I am assuming you are talking about foam rolling on its own, however how can foam rolling exactly help if one is rolling everyday
how about the concept of trigger point therapy? is that a myth? i do foam rolling outside of workouts because i heard about "trigger points". i really appreciated your demonstration of foam rolling at the beginning because thats how i feel when im foam rolling.
why is it that the first time you foam roll a sensitive spot it kills and makes you cringe and grunt in pain, but the 10th time you foam roll the same spot there is almost no pain at all when you rest all your weight on it? my lower back was aching all the so i foam rolled by lumbar area and glutes and this is exactly what happened, also no more lower back pain
Would you say then that whether you foam roll or not is not a good enough deciding factor on sport-related injuries? And if not, then what are the causes for sport-related injuries? Would be be more stability and biomechanics related? Do you have any videos on sport-related injuries?
Foam rolling - myofascial release will drastically increase mobility. I did 1 hour a night of deep mfr and my flexibility went through the roof within a few weeks.
Hey Quinn, What about using foam rollers and lacrosse balls to relieve muscle knots and tight fascia. I found your videos very interesting but for someone like me with a hyperkyphosis, winged scapula and all the tightness and pain that comes with it, it seems you discount some other benefits of stretching and rolling. Pain relief, general muscle relaxation and blood flow as well as relief from muscle knots that develop are extremely helpful. Would love to hear your thoughts. Cheers
Love your videos. Very informative and clear as are the other JTS videos and trainers. Any chance you could do a video on dry needling? Science, benefits, risks, etc...?
Quinn foam rolling is such a huge fad and Ive always wondered if there's much research to back it up. It is my understanding that there may be two ways to foam roll. One is to roll it all over your muscle which will activate the muscle spindles and help "warm up" the tissue. The other is to be stationary on a certain point of the muscle, activating the GTOs, therefore relaxing the muscle. Thoughts?
So what about foam rolling in the context of massage /recovery therapy? Albeit probably not the most effective or precise, but in the respect that it’s bringing blood to the muscle to flush out lactic acid, bring nutrients, etc.
I was wondering. If this is a neuro thing, i guess we stimulate, neuro muscles effectiveness? Wouldn't band floss stimulate the same way for example running? That you floss 1-2min before you start running? I use FMR, for warm-up 30 sec/ primary muscle -> warm up set -> FMR primary muscle -> low loading set -> FMR primary muscle -> increasing load set and i keep on going until i feel the sweat starting and the mobility working fine. Would you say this could be an example on how we can use it?
what about foam rolling for recovery purposes? and because ur body is beat up of poor posture/long time lifting. increase bloodflow ? some people say they foam roll just substitute of massage cause its do it anywhere whenever you want. your take on it ?
However, what is your opinion on autogenic inhibition. Golgi tendon organs (mechanoreceptors) that once a fascia is under to much tension or pressure your GTOs overrides muscle spindles relaxing the muscle. I.e. When you reach your max during a bench press and feel you cannot press any more your pectorals and synergists etc completely relax (GTOS). The same surely applies when your SMR or foam roll, resulting in knots or adhesions relaxing...
I had throbbing knee pain in my left knee for 10+ years. Seen many to specialists, but no one was able to help. After one foam rolling session, the pain was gone and never came back. That was 5 years ago. How does one explain that, if foam rolling is a a temporary solution? Not disputing what was said in the video, honestly looking for a answer.
The tension in my feet was unbearablely high. I used a lacrosse ball to massage deeply on my soles and the release was unbelievable. It felt like years of tight, restricted movement left my feet after that session. It was NOT a placebo. Every morning id have to shuffle around until i was warmed up, now i feel free. Not placebo!
Theo Albezsta that is really like saying that just cause a doctor can't diagnose it is must all be in your head, that they must be disparate for attention to think they are in pain and that is the worst thing you could say to someone who is unwell or in pain. My mother went 30 years before being diagnosed with her autoimmune condition and being told it was in her head - doctors aren't infallible and sometimes there may not 'appear' to be an underlying reason when there is. People shouldn't be narrowed minded and science and medicine is ever evolving. And muscle knots or other postural problems can cause significant pain in itself...unless you know the OP's medical history you can't comment on what has caused their pain or imply it was made up.
I totally agree with this video. I bought three different foam rollers and I had zero improvement a day after using each. They taste horrible and I think they cause constipation.
Do u have some tip for tight trapezius? For example using a foam roller to relax the area then do some exercise to make them less tight using stretching? sorry for my bad english and thanks for the attention!
Hello, I have.a big question. With these methods we get a temporary range off motion, but is ir safe? Will we get strengh in that range of motion or the risk of injurie is too high? Provably the reason everybody is (trying to) overhead squating even dont have strengh and the real mobility (not just temporary)
Could you provide the references to the studies on the effects of soft tissue manipulation on rats and then the failure to reproduce the results in human tissue?
Very interesting! I know the mind is amazing, but I have experienced muscles (seemingly) physically softening/loosening, as in--to the touch, post lacrosse ball work. Is this really just a change of mental perception? It really seems like an actual physical change. I'm intrigued.
Great question Sarah. Unfortunately, there is just little to no evidence of the contrary; and they have tried. It could be the increased blood flow that changes the feeling in the tissue, or some kind of neurological 'release'; but we have been unable to verify or measure anything like that at this time. Also, if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then the barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate. Having said that, if you feel a difference, than it 'works'. Do what's best for you. I would just recommend using the minimum effective dose, to maximize the use of your time.
It's not just a proprioception. I get massages regularly. At first the therapist commented that my muscles "feels like rocks". Over many regular sessions it has progressively gotten softer and looser. There is actual physical change. Also, regarding "if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then the barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate." SMR with a lax ball would put your bodyweight on to a very small area of your muscle. A barbell distributes the weight across a much much wider area. The appropriate statement statement should be ""if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then a 1 ton barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate." I haven't tried it but i would guess the latter part of that statement is reasonably accurate.
+SaiYeNz Thank you for the response. I understand you feel that there is cellular change, but at this time, the actual controlled, scientific evidence is weighted towards the contrary. My statements in the video are not simply my opinion; they are based on the peer-reviewed literature.
I'm not talking about one's own perception. I'm talking about someone else who is manually working on the muscle. They feel for the "knot" with their hands and put pressure on it until it subsides. And on the next pass, that "knot" is gone. How do you explain that if it is just in "my own head"?
So long term fix for a tight upper glute? I cant get my left foot over my right knee whilst in a wall squat position. From what you're saying foam rolling will only ever be a short term fix. How can I make it permanently more mobile?
I got the foam roller thing, but what about stretching, should I do it between the warm up sets or it is good to do it before and after the training, usually I do it before.
Would this mean that physical massage (Swedish and sports massage etc) would be the same as foam rollering? I.e. It's a short terms neurological benefit which would reset quickly?
Could you describe which foam-rolling techniques would be good for the corresponding tightness? For example, tightness on the front of the hips while descending into a squat could be relieved by rolling the hip flexors with a medicine ball (or even lacrosse ball). I guess this could be a future video in and of itself..
Hi Niaz, I'll likely not do videos on rolling techniques, because it doesn't have to be complicated. If you feel tightness, roll it and the area all around. Trial and error and experimentation is the key.
I would usually foam roll first, then do a dynamic warm up for that particular movement I'm doing. Do you reckon me do dynamic warm up first and foam roll during my warm up sets?
Use the roller for 20-30 seconds on a specific bodypart, then use that new mobility in a dynamic warmup ie. Roll Quads for 30 seconds, do 10 air or goblet squats.
What term would you use, in summary, to describe what you are doing, now the term 'breaking down adhesions within the muscle' is a myth? (to say to someone)
"I don't know" is usually how I answer someone when they ask me, "What is this actually doing?". But telling them that it's creating a "short-term window" is not a bad explanation. You can also be super up-front and just say it's changing their perception
So I've been working on correcting anterior pelvic tilt. From my reading, the consensus seems that the primary cause is tight hip flexors/psoas and weak glutes/hams and weak abs (core.) I've been using a larger ball in the lower gut to try to loosen up the psoas and using it on the upper quads as well. If this isn't really going to help long term, what do you recommend to lengthen/fix the tighter hip flexors? Or overall, what's the primary thing to work on for those with ATP.. should I primarily stick to static stretching for the hip flexors and skip all the rolling (that of course, like others have mentioned, Kelly Starrett so highly recommends.) Thanks!
Very informative I've spent way too mch time foam rolling on a daily basis. Bt does this mean that foam rolling post exercise in regards to increase recovery and mobility is actually not doing us anygood??
Hi, first of all good video, I agree with what you said, although I do some good use at my foam roller sometimes, but, when I do, I like to finish with some stretching for the areas I've rolled, I believe I've seen research on it, for a longer term effect and to get something more beneficial than just foam rolling, what you think about it?
question : you speak about loading weight after roaling, is it also effective to stretch after foam rolling? Do i gain anything to use the roll before stretching an area?
thought foamrolling was about the muscles being cramped and so you massage em. what i did was cut a pool noodle and i roll along my back, agAinst a wall or flooor. it cracks some vertrlebrae and ribs as well,wich is nice
Very informative! Loved the video Let's say I wanna foam roll my glutes and piriformis muscles during squat warm up, would it matter if I'm using a soft foam roller or a cross ball?
Neil Knuth the relaxation portion is sensory, like he said, to actually change tissue length even 1% takes thousands of pounds of force depending on which tissues we are talking about. The release sensation you feel is likely due to muscle spindles, golgi tendon organs, and other deep mechanoreceptors that are being stimulated. When they become very stimulated in a way they are not used to, their usual function or “resting tone” is now altered, therefore allowing tissues and your brain to perceive movement in a more favorable manner. This is what is hypothesized in these research articles he mentions. After all, if it works it works.
Hey Quinn I really appreciate this video, along with the rest of the mobility myths series. I'm a first year Osteopathy student and am interested in finding some more info on the original studies you are referring to where they were testing on rats, do you have some sort of link/reference for this? Thanks again for your work!
Most of the research I referred to in the video is in regards to manual therapy; so yes. That's obviously a hot topic since many have made manual therapy a career. I don't believe this information negates the benefits of such treatment; we are practitioners should just be a little more true to the evidence and honest to the patient about what we are doing
How does this square with the studies (Gergley 2013, and a few others I think) that demonstrates stretching before lifting to negatively effect strength performance? I realize they were testing static stretching but the goal of mobility is the same in either static stretching and "myofascial release" mobility regimes.
The goal of mobility is the same, but the effect of stretching versus foam rolling on muscle performance is different. Foam rolling does not have the negative effect on power the way that static stretching does, according to the literature. However, when static stretching is followed up with a dynamic warm up, the decreases in power are more negligible. "Stretching" is the topic of an installment of this series coming out very soon. I address that exact issue.
Hey Quinn, I suppose if outside the gym someone is feeling tight and beat up and they are trying to make the most of their recovery such as sitting on the couch it couldn't hurt to do a little foam rolling or lacrosse ball just to loosen up and not feel like hammered dog shit?
As a physiotherapist this is music to my ears! So happy that the right kind (evidence-based) of information is getting to people. I really dislike that foam rolling is called myofascial release while it is just neuromodulation.
What evidence? Because all I heard here was opinion. Evidence would be peer reviewed research and not one single study was mentioned here. You sound like a very close-minded person looking for ways to validate and reinforce your belief system instead of expanding your views with new and actual evidence. This entire video was fluff.
@@MrSupernova111
What do you mean "opinion"? This is evidence-based science. You know Dr. Quinn mentions studies in the other mobility myths vids?
@@MrSupernova111 I think you don't understand the word "evidence"
Great video ! I used the clinical athlete directory to find a PT near me and man he is a blessing. Ben has truly changed my life and has taken me out of the pain which I barely managed to endure for a full year due to FAI and an anterior labrum tear. Dr. Quinn I want to personally thank you for making such informative videos based on evidence based research and the clinical athlete directory. You have changed my life.
This is what I did my master's thesis on! I love to see the same discussion from what I found in my research
Do you have your thesis online?
@@sjgardne It is. Just got published a few months ago. Titled "Incorporating Foam Rolling After a Walking Warm-up Does Not Increase Hamstring Flexibility"
@@ckipnis10 . Sounds like a very narrow view on the benefit of "Foam Rolling." A better thesis would have been on the overall benefits of foam rolling.
@@MrSupernova111 Thank you for your feedback. My goal was to look just at the variable of range of motion as the previous literature was inconclusive.
Chloe Kipnis . Understandable. Congratulations on your masters. Cheers.
Seriously: Thank you thank you thank you for making these videos. I've been a personal trainer for 9 years and this is easily the best channel I've found on youtube. Love your videos, great information.
K Marie where did you became a personal trainer?
I started years ago teaching bootcamp/martial arts at a local academy. Then I earned my cert through NESTA and started training at 24 hour fitness. Now I am certified through ACE and run a private gym for a corporate office :) Been an awesome career!
It’s not really his channel.
I used to spend 10-15 minutes foam rolling and using a lacrosse ball after lifting. However as my training time increased and I didn't want to spend the time after I started doing exactly what Dr Quinn has spoke about in this video. I use the foam roller, lacrosse ball and bands to stretch and help gain mobility in the areas that are tight when I am warming up. I have seen no loss in mobility, if anything maybe more and found I move a lot better during my squats and say snatches.
How are massages working? Or is that a perception thing, too? I gotta say, if it is, it's one hell of a placebo effect.
It's our nervous systems that create lasting relief/changes in the body. So in very simple terms, how well we're able to relax and not be in fight or flight while receiving massages determines how well our tissues takes to the work being done.
@@christineharrelson4831 So for long term relief, one must be able to relax the areas of tension on one's own accord. So massages are crutches since they only relieve the symptoms and not the actual cause.
I found that full-range, multi-planar movements along with eccentric exercises (lite hand weights) are very effective at relieve tension or knots. (AKA Dynamic stretching)
Strident Atheist many research studies have shown that blood lactate concentration levels (lactic acid is just a byproduct of glycolysis) actually diminish within minutes post exercise through oxygen uptake. So unless you’re getting a massage 1 min after a workout, your theory is incorrect.
I see no harm in enjoying an occasional steak in the Matrix
I’m also a DPT, although a new grad. I can’t thank you enough for this information. It gets hard to explain to people that these effects are short term and tissue doesn’t “break.” I’m not sure why we’d want that even if we could do it. I like your example with the heavy barbell, my personal favorite is using the pressure on our feet while standing. Wouldn’t that “break” tissue and turn you into a puddle? Great informative EB video.
Been doing this for a bunch of years with a lot of success. Short and sweet between sets. Great stuff. Thanks Quinn.
JST you have winner in Dr. Quinn Henoch ! Always very clear and to the point. KUDOS
I'm not going to say I have any knowledge here, but I have sat for close 15 years, and I can for sure say that takes a toll on your body. I've been seeing drs for 2 years now, and everyone wants to work my "injuries". my only injury ever was a pec tear. after 2 years I know that is never going to help me. I can't find any body like Vinne rehab to fix my posture, so I'm taking it upon myself to release my whole body a few times a week. I use a ball and roller and after 20mins of this I am standing so much taller, arms hang lower, shoulders are behind me, and forearms pop out, and this is because my body is transferring signals? no way. I can see a dramatic difference when getting dressed in how much it's helping my back muscles pop out. I was doing my shoulder 3x a day to help it and my Dr asked what the hell was I doing being it was so lose compared to my good shoulder. self release absolutely 100 percent does restore tissue.
I wish more people would talk about the research behind myofacial release. It is so prevalent that everyone is doing however I have yet to see stable long term results. The questions that Dr. Henock presents are worth asking. Thank you for this video!
I've had a 60 lbs kettlebell for the last year. I have also started having pain and tightness in my left hip flexor (extreme pain standing after sitting for a while). I've noticed that when I do swings and goblets squats with my 60 lb KB 2-4 times a week (3 sets of 10) I become pain free.
request for more Dr. Quinn videos please, JTS.
Dr. James Franco?
I get that a lot
Arturo Iribe I see more of a Freddie Mercury
Noone is hotter than Freddie Mercury. Noone.
He doesn’t even look like him
mind blown.
I'm going to try this out. Foam rolling in between sets, versus 10-15 minutes in warmup.
Just great. Glad to see that more and more people start to integrate evidence-based knowledge into clinical practise. Well done!
Doctor of Physical Therapy student here. Great series on this channel. Thanks! So, to clarify, you are saying that foam rolling is similar to TENS in treating c/o pain (and/or stiffness in an implication involving foam rolling) in that it is a neuro-physiological process (i.e. gating mechanism and other theories associated with sx relief from TENS application) that is short in duration of relief; AND, even though you say " 'perceived' newly gained ROM", the ROM gain post foam rolling IS truly there, but it is due to a process that the literature cannot currently answer with certainty. Is this an accurate summary of what you are saying?
your videos helped me allot man after spending allot of money and being told nothing is wrong when my right side is clearly dropped and scapular wing wich you helped me realize isnt that bad and fixable.thanks again.
Dr.Quinn , could you please do a mechanism understanding of the massage gun like this one ? Is it the similar idea to the foam rolling ?
very similar
Hello! I realize this is an old video but thank you for posting! I’ve recently become really curious about the mechanisms of Manuel therapy and when I ask people tend to make something up as opposed to giving a evidence-based response. Great video!
What evidence was mentioned here? Because I didn't hear about any peer reviewed research in this video. Just a bunch of fluff backed by opinion.
great video - i actually reduced my foam rolling time, its good to know im on the right track with that
In the book "Scientific Stretching" Kurz posits that a huge component of stretching is neurological. In essence it sounds like you are saying something similar. That being said, training your body's natural neurological response to stretching is still effective and important for athletes. If your minds natural reaction to stretching is to tense up, and foam rolling combats that response then it is helpful.
This is the exact way I've been doing things for my hip pain in my back squat, do a warm up set then do some foam rolling, do a set then some band distraction, do a set then some hip planes and by the time on my working sets the pains almost gone.
I would like to know how you square this with "tight muscles" that are relieved through
pressure techniques.
For instance, I had a very tight quad and I used a foam roller to apply pressure to the muscle, then used contract/relax cycles along with breathing techniques to coax the muscle into "letting go".
This worked amazingly well and the result was that the huge chorded muscle (that felt like I had a frozen beef tenderloin tucked in there) disolved away and took the pain and tightness with it.
I agree that the change is 100% neuromuscular. I don't agree that it is neccessarily a short term sensory distraction.
Thanks for your time
I use the foam roller before training to release verterbrae in the thoracic spine by lying on it and stretching, turning and letting the spine loosen up a little bit.
It it works for you, then that's great! I'd just recommend finding the minimum effective dose in order to maximize the use of your time.
Oh man, this is gold!! Thanks Dr. Quinn!
According to NASM's protocol the foam rolling gets the golgi tendon organ to relax which gets the muscle to relax. Any thoughts on that?
I'm not sure if you still look back at comments on this, but the Rat explanation was enormously helpful. With that being said does Graston tool usage amount to the same effect? Or does that actually bring about physiological change (and bruises)?
What are your thoughts on Active Release Therapy? Does the intense pressure and instrumentation used have any actual physical benefits or is it still sensory? The reason I ask is ART has exploded in popularity and so many fitness enthusiasts swear by it now.
Hi, You talk about short term effects only. That is why I recommend to my athletes to roll 30" to 2' actively before training and between sets. But if you consider stretching for creating a real change (for example someone wtih tight psoas), is it the right strategy to use it for minutes after training or on a rest day relaxed and breathing properly ?
No. Stretching is bad and inhibits muscles. Don't be stupid
Jack's Team The effect of stretching is actually quite the same. We cannot lengthen our muscles by stretching or foam rolling, we are only making a change in the nervous system, it's called neuromodulation. If we do these things regularly there might be a tissue change, but I haven't read any studies on it. Actually eccentric exercises help to relieve the tight feeling in muscles as well and they produce a tissue change.
Very digestible. Enjoy this series quite a bit.
This is how I always looked at it: If you stretch once, you're not really going to induce any permanent change on your body. But still, if you stretch once, you still FEEL a temporary difference. You need to stretch consistently over the long term in order to truly change your baseline flexibility. In my opinion, that's how I view foam rolling. One rolling session won't do any permanent change. But foam/ball rolling properly (massaging in general) for at least a few months (consistently) will gradually reward you with the benefits that massaging allegedly gives.
Is this fair to say, or does foam rolling offer no/minimal benefits, beyond the perception factor you mentioned, even if practiced over the long term?
I still find it to work wonders on my calves, instantly relieving my tight ankles and shin splints. I basically go on the side of my calf, cross my other leg on top of that one, so then all my bodyweight is on the one calf and my two hands. I then find a tender point, and start plantar flexing/dorsilflexing my ankle and spin it in circles. I've found that the best way to relieve tight ankles. I also do the same for my forearms and my carpal tunnel is gone. But the pain always finds its way back eventually.
Same here. I used to get charley horses in my calves regularly - typically while sleeping. Then I started foam rolling. At first it was nightly, right before bed. A year later, I don't need to anymore, just when I lift.
"Breaking up the cellular structure" sounds a bit different from unsticking tissues that are stuck together. Regrettably, I neglected to post my results on pubmed; but when I first started getting into mobility work, I did a side-by-side comparison of "pec" (any relevant tissues in the pec area) restriction. I first tested both pecs by abducting my arms while maintaining my arms at about a 50-60° angle to the ground in an externally rotated position, and each side turned out to be about the same. I then proceeded to smash only my left pec with a few different tools (the most effective method seemed to be the "tack and floss" method using my hand as the "tack") for about 10-15 minutes, and retested. Upon retesting, my left arm abducted smoothly until the joint ran out of range, while I experienced some restriction (fuzz, stickyness, etc.) in the right pec area as I approached end range. I have ruled out placebo, because: 1) I objectively quantified (the best I could; unfortunately, there exists no unit of measurement to describe tissue fucked-upness) my result, rather than claiming it "feels better" in some abstract way; 2) I did not expect to experience noticeable change.
Did you take any measures to note the difference between the two sides in abduction?
Which is better, foam rolling, stretching, or massage?
Are you only talking about rolling up and down length of muscle? What about holding pressure on 'trigger points'/hypertonic muscles for an inhibitory response of relaxing the muscle?
re-watched, answered my question as well as in another question in comments
great content. a video about trigger points and release techniques would also be great
Pretty much confirms everything I've always thought. Good stuff.
So then if I have lots of tension in my knees, is it basically impossible to meaningfully loosen up those tendons? I've been told by my physical therapist that massaging those tendons would break up scar tissue and allow the stretch to not be so tight.
Great advice. Never tried foam rolling in between sets
Dr. Henoch, I have a question. I went to a PT a while ago and he basically said something along the lines of: There is a jello-like structure of acids or something that build up in between the muscle and the bag(?) that holds the muscle, which we feel as the tight, sore spots. And the myofascial manipulation promotes an inflammation response that helps break down the jello. Sorry, I'm unsure of the terminology, because the conversation was in Finnish. Is there any truth to this? Or is it a different thing? Thanks!
Wow man, thats informative! What should i foam roll if my right knee hurts? A little bit inside and down. Not only when i squat also walking all the time. Thank You!
Dr. Quinn do you not think that long term, material mobility changes cannot be made with foam rollers, lacrosse balls, and the like? I am a big fan of banded mobility and loaded positioning to improve mobility but if I roll out my quads on a consistent basis(1-3 times per week) they not only feel better that day but also on the days that no rolling is mobility is done. This compared to the control of me not rolling my quads at all.
Hi Quinn, what about knots/tight spots/trigger points? Do they exist if so what exactly do we solve by getting rid of them? I was also reading a blog by Andreo Spina who agreed with you on what MFR really does, but he did say that that applying pressure and sliding did break up the fibrosis. I can't find the article now though!
also what about going for a sports massage? does that aid recovery or help prevent injury? because when i foam roll, thats essentially what im trying to do. re-create some of the effect i might get at a sports massage. but if i go to get a sports massage its usually not specifically between sets, its just a general massage, and i don't do anything in particular after to "use" the short term effect. so is sports massage a myth too?
0:14 #toofine
Great information. My understanding: Foam rolling is a placebo. Placebos are good.
Maybe. They can be quite expensive though.
Szotak Andrei they are literally so cheap
you foam roll for the same reason you get a massage. it warms the muscles increasing blood flow while at the same time overriding most of the pain for a short while. its better to foam roll than it is not to thats for sure haha
Which is why this video is misleading. It is not just a placebo.
There is no evidence to support massage increasing blood flow even for a short time.
Especially when increasing ankle mobility, foam rolling is one of the keys to help mobility obviously if paired with stretching. I am assuming you are talking about foam rolling on its own, however how can foam rolling exactly help if one is rolling everyday
how about the concept of trigger point therapy? is that a myth? i do foam rolling outside of workouts because i heard about "trigger points". i really appreciated your demonstration of foam rolling at the beginning because thats how i feel when im foam rolling.
why is it that the first time you foam roll a sensitive spot it kills and makes you cringe and grunt in pain, but the 10th time you foam roll the same spot there is almost no pain at all when you rest all your weight on it? my lower back was aching all the so i foam rolled by lumbar area and glutes and this is exactly what happened, also no more lower back pain
Would you say then that whether you foam roll or not is not a good enough deciding factor on sport-related injuries? And if not, then what are the causes for sport-related injuries? Would be be more stability and biomechanics related? Do you have any videos on sport-related injuries?
Foam rolling - myofascial release will drastically increase mobility. I did 1 hour a night of deep mfr and my flexibility went through the roof within a few weeks.
Hey Quinn,
What about using foam rollers and lacrosse balls to relieve muscle knots and tight fascia. I found your videos very interesting but for someone like me with a hyperkyphosis, winged scapula and all the tightness and pain that comes with it, it seems you discount some other benefits of stretching and rolling. Pain relief, general muscle relaxation and blood flow as well as relief from muscle knots that develop are extremely helpful. Would love to hear your thoughts. Cheers
Love your videos. Very informative and clear as are the other JTS videos and trainers. Any chance you could do a video on dry needling? Science, benefits, risks, etc...?
So weighted stretching is the most effective for long term relief?
Quinn foam rolling is such a huge fad and Ive always wondered if there's much research to back it up. It is my understanding that there may be two ways to foam roll. One is to roll it all over your muscle which will activate the muscle spindles and help "warm up" the tissue. The other is to be stationary on a certain point of the muscle, activating the GTOs, therefore relaxing the muscle. Thoughts?
So what about foam rolling in the context of massage /recovery therapy? Albeit probably not the most effective or precise, but in the respect that it’s bringing blood to the muscle to flush out lactic acid, bring nutrients, etc.
I was wondering.
If this is a neuro thing, i guess we stimulate, neuro muscles effectiveness? Wouldn't band floss stimulate the same way for example running? That you floss 1-2min before you start running?
I use FMR, for warm-up 30 sec/ primary muscle -> warm up set -> FMR primary muscle -> low loading set -> FMR primary muscle -> increasing load set and i keep on going until i feel the sweat starting and the mobility working fine.
Would you say this could be an example on how we can use it?
what about foam rolling for recovery purposes? and because ur body is beat up of poor posture/long time lifting. increase bloodflow ? some people say they foam roll just substitute of massage cause its do it anywhere whenever you want. your take on it ?
However, what is your opinion on autogenic inhibition. Golgi tendon organs (mechanoreceptors) that once a fascia is under to much tension or pressure your GTOs overrides muscle spindles relaxing the muscle. I.e. When you reach your max during a bench press and feel you cannot press any more your pectorals and synergists etc completely relax (GTOS). The same surely applies when your SMR or foam roll, resulting in knots or adhesions relaxing...
A foam roller is great for thoracic extention and iso holds, but dosent suck enough for myofascial release imo
Is it right that foam roller increases the thickness of the human fascia ??
I had throbbing knee pain in my left knee for 10+ years. Seen many to specialists, but no one was able to help. After one foam rolling session, the pain was gone and never came back. That was 5 years ago. How does one explain that, if foam rolling is a a temporary solution? Not disputing what was said in the video, honestly looking for a answer.
Exactly. If rolling is just a placebo, why don't the various other things have the same placebo effect?
I have similar knee problem. What kind of rolling technique did you use? Thanks.
The tension in my feet was unbearablely high. I used a lacrosse ball to massage deeply on my soles and the release was unbelievable. It felt like years of tight, restricted movement left my feet after that session. It was NOT a placebo. Every morning id have to shuffle around until i was warmed up, now i feel free. Not placebo!
Theo Albezsta that is really like saying that just cause a doctor can't diagnose it is must all be in your head, that they must be disparate for attention to think they are in pain and that is the worst thing you could say to someone who is unwell or in pain. My mother went 30 years before being diagnosed with her autoimmune condition and being told it was in her head - doctors aren't infallible and sometimes there may not 'appear' to be an underlying reason when there is. People shouldn't be narrowed minded and science and medicine is ever evolving. And muscle knots or other postural problems can cause significant pain in itself...unless you know the OP's medical history you can't comment on what has caused their pain or imply it was made up.
I love this! I am a current physiotherapy student and I would love to read up on the research presented in video. Cheers
I totally agree with this video. I bought three different foam rollers and I had zero improvement a day after using each. They taste horrible and I think they cause constipation.
So why do some people get bruises after foam rolling if it doesn't release the fascia?
Whatever....Form rolling...self message feels so good. My DOMS is so low,if I foam roll or self message...Sleep and resting period improve,too(for me)
Where can I find the papers about the pressures needed to structurally change (or not change) tissues?
Keep the videos coming awesome and very helpful information!!!!
Do u have some tip for tight trapezius? For example using a foam roller to relax the area then do some exercise to make them less tight using stretching? sorry for my bad english and thanks for the attention!
I think that sounds like a decent plan. I'd need an assessment to give specific recommendations.
What about compression and the temporary blocking of the flow of blood. Once released out pushes all the cellular waste in the muscles.
I am bit confused, are you saying that foam rolling for longer minutes has no effect?
Hello,
I have.a big question. With these methods we get a temporary range off motion, but is ir safe? Will we get strengh in that range of motion or the risk of injurie is too high? Provably the reason everybody is (trying to) overhead squating even dont have strengh and the real mobility (not just temporary)
Could you provide the references to the studies on the effects of soft tissue manipulation on rats and then the failure to reproduce the results in human tissue?
Very interesting! I know the mind is amazing, but I have experienced muscles (seemingly) physically softening/loosening, as in--to the touch, post lacrosse ball work. Is this really just a change of mental perception? It really seems like an actual physical change. I'm intrigued.
Great question Sarah. Unfortunately, there is just little to no evidence of the contrary; and they have tried. It could be the increased blood flow that changes the feeling in the tissue, or some kind of neurological 'release'; but we have been unable to verify or measure anything like that at this time. Also, if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then the barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate.
Having said that, if you feel a difference, than it 'works'. Do what's best for you. I would just recommend using the minimum effective dose, to maximize the use of your time.
It's not just a proprioception. I get massages regularly. At first the therapist commented that my muscles "feels like rocks". Over many regular sessions it has progressively gotten softer and looser. There is actual physical change.
Also, regarding "if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then the barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate."
SMR with a lax ball would put your bodyweight on to a very small area of your muscle. A barbell distributes the weight across a much much wider area. The appropriate statement statement should be ""if it were truly breaking up your cellular structure, then a 1 ton barbell would make you absolutely disintegrate." I haven't tried it but i would guess the latter part of that statement is reasonably accurate.
+SaiYeNz Thank you for the response. I understand you feel that there is cellular change, but at this time, the actual controlled, scientific evidence is weighted towards the contrary. My statements in the video are not simply my opinion; they are based on the peer-reviewed literature.
I'm not talking about one's own perception. I'm talking about someone else who is manually working on the muscle. They feel for the "knot" with their hands and put pressure on it until it subsides. And on the next pass, that "knot" is gone. How do you explain that if it is just in "my own head"?
Thanks Quinn--very fascinating!
Would greatly enjoy your feedback on how percussive hand-held devices can effect the fascia.
So long term fix for a tight upper glute? I cant get my left foot over my right knee whilst in a wall squat position. From what you're saying foam rolling will only ever be a short term fix. How can I make it permanently more mobile?
I got the foam roller thing, but what about stretching, should I do it between the warm up sets or it is good to do it before and after the training, usually I do it before.
Would this mean that physical massage (Swedish and sports massage etc) would be the same as foam rollering? I.e. It's a short terms neurological benefit which would reset quickly?
Could you describe which foam-rolling techniques would be good for the corresponding tightness? For example, tightness on the front of the hips while descending into a squat could be relieved by rolling the hip flexors with a medicine ball (or even lacrosse ball). I guess this could be a future video in and of itself..
Hi Niaz, I'll likely not do videos on rolling techniques, because it doesn't have to be complicated. If you feel tightness, roll it and the area all around. Trial and error and experimentation is the key.
Could you recommend articles on the topic
I would usually foam roll first, then do a dynamic warm up for that particular movement I'm doing. Do you reckon me do dynamic warm up first and foam roll during my warm up sets?
Use the roller for 20-30 seconds on a specific bodypart, then use that new mobility in a dynamic warmup ie. Roll Quads for 30 seconds, do 10 air or goblet squats.
Thanks allot man. Keep up the excellent series going.
What term would you use, in summary, to describe what you are doing, now the term 'breaking down adhesions within the muscle' is a myth? (to say to someone)
"I don't know" is usually how I answer someone when they ask me, "What is this actually doing?". But telling them that it's creating a "short-term window" is not a bad explanation. You can also be super up-front and just say it's changing their perception
Excellent description.
So it's impossible to get rid of scar tissue?
So I've been working on correcting anterior pelvic tilt. From my reading, the consensus seems that the primary cause is tight hip flexors/psoas and weak glutes/hams and weak abs (core.) I've been using a larger ball in the lower gut to try to loosen up the psoas and using it on the upper quads as well. If this isn't really going to help long term, what do you recommend to lengthen/fix the tighter hip flexors? Or overall, what's the primary thing to work on for those with ATP.. should I primarily stick to static stretching for the hip flexors and skip all the rolling (that of course, like others have mentioned, Kelly Starrett so highly recommends.) Thanks!
Awesome video! Thank you very much for sharing!
So would you foam roll and do dynamic work only before and after warm up sets, and not between working numbers? And if so, why exactly?
Can you link some of the literature that focuses on the perceived changes from mobility tools?
So does foam rolling routine after exercises help us to recover?
I must be a physical therapist as well. Because I'm also judging everyone in the gym.
Very informative
I've spent way too mch time foam rolling on a daily basis.
Bt does this mean that foam rolling post exercise in regards to increase recovery and mobility is actually not doing us anygood??
Hi, first of all good video, I agree with what you said, although I do some good use at my foam roller sometimes, but, when I do, I like to finish with some stretching for the areas I've rolled, I believe I've seen research on it, for a longer term effect and to get something more beneficial than just foam rolling, what you think about it?
question : you speak about loading weight after roaling, is it also effective to stretch after foam rolling? Do i gain anything to use the roll before stretching an area?
thought foamrolling was about the muscles being cramped and so you massage em. what i did was cut a pool noodle and i roll along my back, agAinst a wall or flooor. it cracks some vertrlebrae and ribs as well,wich is nice
Very informative! Loved the video
Let's say I wanna foam roll my glutes and piriformis muscles during squat warm up, would it matter if I'm using a soft foam roller or a cross ball?
Doesn't really matter. Personal preference
So, when I smash a knot with a lacrosse ball am I perceiving that knot loosing?
Jokes on you, the earth is actually flat you dummy!
Neil Knuth the relaxation portion is sensory, like he said, to actually change tissue length even 1% takes thousands of pounds of force depending on which tissues we are talking about. The release sensation you feel is likely due to muscle spindles, golgi tendon organs, and other deep mechanoreceptors that are being stimulated. When they become very stimulated in a way they are not used to, their usual function or “resting tone” is now altered, therefore allowing tissues and your brain to perceive movement in a more favorable manner. This is what is hypothesized in these research articles he mentions. After all, if it works it works.
:) hahahaha flat, Earth! hahahaha
:) hahahaha sphere, Earth! hahahaha .. prove curvature exists.
Hey Quinn I really appreciate this video, along with the rest of the mobility myths series. I'm a first year Osteopathy student and am interested in finding some more info on the original studies you are referring to where they were testing on rats, do you have some sort of link/reference for this? Thanks again for your work!
Taking this a bit further would this imply that something like a deep tissue massage is also sensory and not necessarily therapeutic?
Most of the research I referred to in the video is in regards to manual therapy; so yes. That's obviously a hot topic since many have made manual therapy a career. I don't believe this information negates the benefits of such treatment; we are practitioners should just be a little more true to the evidence and honest to the patient about what we are doing
How does this square with the studies (Gergley 2013, and a few others I think) that demonstrates stretching before lifting to negatively effect strength performance? I realize they were testing static stretching but the goal of mobility is the same in either static stretching and "myofascial release" mobility regimes.
The goal of mobility is the same, but the effect of stretching versus foam rolling on muscle performance is different. Foam rolling does not have the negative effect on power the way that static stretching does, according to the literature. However, when static stretching is followed up with a dynamic warm up, the decreases in power are more negligible. "Stretching" is the topic of an installment of this series coming out very soon. I address that exact issue.
With this in mind, it draws into question instrument assisted techniques and active release. What have you seen in the research on your end?
Hey Quinn, I suppose if outside the gym someone is feeling tight and beat up and they are trying to make the most of their recovery such as sitting on the couch it couldn't hurt to do a little foam rolling or lacrosse ball just to loosen up and not feel like hammered dog shit?
Certainly