The thing I hate about Maribat is how nearly all the fics character assassinates every single Miraculous character other than Marinette. Like, the class might be stupid sometimes, but they're hardly abusive bullies, and I don't think Alya, who is actually a good friend, would turn on Marinette the way they always show. And why does Adrien become the violent and entitled incel, when Marinette is the stalker in canon. And every time one of them ends with "Adrien isn't the true black cat and has to give the ring to Damien" I want to strangle someone. It's just dumb.
To be fair, Grant Morrison DOES regret demonizing Talia since he didn't read the comic where Bruce and her banged. And to be honest, I think Spider-Man is more fitting to Miraculous Ladybug than Batman. Right age, bug themed, teen problems, etc.
It would have to be other than comic Spidey though, just cuz Peter's been in an adult in the comics since at least the 70's, but I've seen that crossover fandom and it's pretty much all been MCU Peter.
@@rabnerd28 Well, in said comics Peter doesn't catch a break, like it's writers written rule to make Spidy's life as miserable as possible. The guy lost his child to devil.
@@rabnerd28 Also, also. Spidy never grows past a certain point. When he hits the best note in his life he is dragged back in the reboot to his teens again climing the ladder being a punching bag that punches back. Spidy needs a break.
This whole thing reminds me alot of the danny phantom x dc au. I remember there being some fics back in like 2017 but its really picked up in the last couple years, especially on tumblr. Unlike the miraculous stuff, theyre usually gen. Sooooo many like, just pick a member to make dannys long lost secret twin. Or make him bruces son. But a lot of them just make it so his parents and or the government want to dissect him so he has to go on the run and wind up gothem. (The dissection is actually pretty par for the course for the dp fandom, so its not much of a leap.) There are so many of these fics now, its fascinating to me. And a lot of modern dp fandom leans on fanon more than canon, with a lot of people who haven't even seen all of the show, if any, and im certain most of these writers havent really interacted with dc outside of this. Great video, i love long videos where people talk about something ive necer heard of! Especially interesting to me how similar these occurrences are. I never thought theres was much overlap between the dp and miraculous fandoms, i wonder if i was wrong.
@@rabnerd28 Even if you don’t wind up making a video about it, it’s a pretty interesting rabbit hole imo! From what I’ve seen, there’s actually a lot of variety in the fics. They don’t seem to really follow a formula other than ‘Danny winds up in Gotham somehow and befriends the batfam’.
I was about to say the same thing!!! Especially with the amount of fics that feature Danny being adopted by Bruce or secretly being Bruce’s long lost child, or someone’s twin. I’m not a fan of those fics just because they normally woobify or infantilize Danny for the sake of angst, but they are very prevalent. It’s usually because Danny looks like a stereotypical Robin as he has dark hair & blue eyes. The best dp x dc fics imo are the silly ones that just want to see fun interactions or Danny being OP compared to most Gotham heroes/villains.
I fell into that rabbit hole. I do not regret it though, My favorite type of tumblr fics are the silly ghost King fics just because of how people are expecting to be summoning a very powerful and threatening King of the dead; And it just 14 year old Danny. And he's just like: "...Hi." ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)
I thought of it too! Funny because I never heard of Maribat before it came up on a tumblr poll and someone linked the video, but I had to block like 12 different keywords to keep the DPxDC from showing up on my dash and I've got a knee-jerk hate for Danny Phantom on sight now.
i've been baffled by this crossover since i found out about it a while back so thank you so much for this video i finally know what its whole deal is! also incredibly fun to hear you roast new 52 damien, hes tied for my fav robin but hes such a little bastard which i say with the utmost affection
I haven’t watched the video but I’m gonna be blunt and say I hate Maribat with a burning passion. 1. I can’t stand sweet girl changes bad boy concept 2. I like DC too much to force Marinette into it 3. I don’t care for Marinette as a character 4. My experiences with Maribat has been “let’s kiss the ground Marinette walks on she does no wrong and everyone else around her are such horrible disputable people” and “she’s so strong, stronger than every Robin, she can outsmart Batman too” Again it’s all from my personal experience in the fandom. It’ll be interesting to se the history behind why such a thing entered the world.
One thing I'm iffy about is the whole Lila Hawkmoth thing. Sometimes it feels like the show likes Hawkmoth too much and wants you to sympathesize with him enough to ignore the crimes he's committed. It feels like they want to justify it not rationalize it, (Glaciator 2 feels a little like they tried to show that he can have moments of being a loving father, and yet the next episode he sees his son having very obvious issues and he's ignoring him). Lila has no real excuse for why she does what she does, and I'd be fine with that, it just feels weird that the teen girl is treated as irredeemable versus the adult man, who abuses his son and preys on teenagers. There are other problems I hated how they never did anything with Chloe in season 4, except turn her back into season 1 Chloe. Yes, she betrayed the team in the season 3 finale, but she at least had the excuse that Hawkmoth was holding her parents hostage, now the show treats her like she'll take any excuse to fight Ladybug.
A person who has read maribat fics here, I was a huge fan of dc before i found miraculous. read the comics when i was a kid. got them wrapped up atm to kinda preserve them tho. they were very loved when i was a kid. anyway, i've read a few dc x miraculous comics. mostly the ones where marinette is just related to a justice league member and they had absolutely no idea about her being ladybug until she says something. anyway i want to talk about where i think certain tropes and themes in these daminette, robin x marinette fics are stemming from; 1st - Lila salt, i remember these fics coming out around the time chameleon from s3 came out. when we first meet lila, marinette walks into school to find everyone excitedly talking about the new student. One of the first things we find out as the audience is that Lila has claimed to be ladybug's best friend. alya, being the fangirl of ladybug she is, interviews her and posts it on her blog thinking that she's going to get exclusive information about ladybug. we then also find out later that she's claimed to know various famous people to different classmates depending on their career goals. we find this out when nino talks about how lila promised to introduce him to some producer/director (idk its been a while). Marinette hearing the ladybug thing knows she's lying. so later she tries to prove her wrong by proving she doesn't have arthritis in her wrist (another lie told later) by throwing a napkin at her. lila catches it and then proceeds to spin it like she caught it to protect another classmate, claiming that she once saw someone get their eye gouged out by a napkin despite the fact the person it would've hit if she didn't catch it wore glasses. the class hearing lila's lie then throws disapproving looks at marinette. so the need for the annoyance to get her castle of lies toppled down on her stems from that. btw i have found a few fics where there is lila salt at the beginning but she apologises, citing the reason for her lies is because she moves around a lot and wanted to be remembered by her classmates when she inevitably moved again but when she realises shes not moving she knows she's gone too far. 2nd - Adrien salt, now when i watched miraculous i understood that for both characters, their love is very much a bit llike puppy love. Marinette is obsessive and very much a stalker while Adrien puts ladybug on a pedestal (she's a godess, shes perfect, she can do no wrong) adrien's crush on ladybug translates into him constantly trying to flirt with her and impress her when they show up to fight an akuma. some people in the maribat fandom think that if the truth is stretched a lil bit it can be considered harassment as ladybug seems annoyed by his advances. there is also the fact that y'know, theyre fighting an akuma "why can't he do this at another time?" and so they depict adrien/cat noir as not having his priorities straight when it comes to being a superhero. Also having been someone who has been harassed like this. yeah i can say its semi accurate when they depict cat noir trying to manipulate ladybug to date him by sitting out of fights. my ex used his depression to get what he wanted. but i'd put this as an extreme and unique case however. Adrien's ignorance to how lila's lies can actually hurt people eg, alyas blog credibility. is also a factor but i think of his ignorance as akin to how a celebrity would deal with minor rumours in media and thats what i chalk it up to. 3rd - Alya salt, i know now from clips i see on tiktok every now and then that alya now knows marinette is ladybug because marinette couldn't handle the responsibilities of being a teenage girl and also being the literal hero of paris with no training, no supervision and no one (anymore) to guide her. however, these fics came out and became popular BEFORE this happened in the show. I'm pretty sure at one point alya called marinette jealous because lila was getting "close" to adrien (which in all fairness, alya WAS right. marinettes original hate of lila was mainly because of her jealousy) but it also seeded the doubt for whenever marinette called lila out for her lies and so alya just didn't believe her when marinette would try to prove or explain and put it up to marinette's jealousy. I think alya is fair for this but at the same time, bro if shes being adamant about it just listen to you best friend. there are fics now where there is zero alya salt. yes i looked up the tag on ao3 and did a skim thru to check. All of this to say, I dont HATE the ship but i prefer fics where miraculous is just placed in the dc universe. preferably no ships and just keep the lila salt cause that harpy has it coming. honestly i just wanna see marinette as ladybug in the watch tower trying to beat cyborg at video games. Edit: spelling mistakes and grammar
I remember reading Ozmav's fic, it was supossed to be just that a funny "what if". It started out as a simple crack-ship one-shot from the "salt" side of the fandom, that didn't like what the show was doing with the ship dinamics & conflict (stretching the confession and kiss (without "time travel so never happened" bs) till the final season & main girls fighting over a boy, and what many considered, somewhat justly, character assasinations all around). (The fics did commit a lot of character assasinations of their own tho, mostly Miraculous ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) After more people liked it and began writing their own one-shot turned multichapter sagas (most of which used the scenario of the OG fic as a template). Later on the scenarios began to shift, and more characters began to be used and dinamics altered to satisfy the urge of the writer in regards to their tastes for miraculous. Lore, shipping, character dianamics, it was all miraculous centered with the DC characters and world as flavor. As I remember the harassment started when the small community grew, but there were some singns early on, and because of the community's focus on miraculous most of the time DC characers were, well, out of character. So were most of the miraculous characters, but the salt side had had it's own scenarios for a while & burn out on the main pairing of the show was strong by then. There were attempts at writing more closely to cannon DC with people relying on comic videos and taking the flavor of continuity they liked, but by then harassment was high and poor Ozmav took the brunt of it. That's around when I stopped following the show and later on most of the fandom, so that's all I can say about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It took me a while to watch this bc I used to be a Maribat reader and even though I'm beyond that (mostly. There are some well written ones that I admit I will read updates of if they ever come again), this was very well spoken and I appreciate your point. From the POV of someone in the trenches, there are a few things that literally everyone did that would make me actually close the fic, were the nicknames ("angel" was on thin ice and only because it was literally everywhere, "pixie-pop" and variations from Jason, "ice prince of Gotham" and "sunshine princess" is actually making me have cringe tears). Personally, I enjoyed some Adrien Bashing, but Alya bashing was often worse and I've read many an essay about the misogynoir involved in that but I can't remember most of them since it's been so long. I agree that Batman vs the TMNT is very very good however my favorite Batman content is Superman/Batman: Public Enemies ("they're so married" -my sister) and TMNT 2003. But I think Batman vs TMNT is honestly second place for both
So I've only ever been tangentially aware of the whole matibat thing, but one thing I do have is more context as to possibly why this crossover exploded in popularity. I could tell from just the summary of the original fanfiction, that this probably happen around the release of the S3 episode "chameleon", which in my educated guess, was the perfect timing for something like this to become super popular. As another comment pointed out there was a lot of frustration in the fandom mostly over the dragged out romantic tension, in the form of the secondary love interests, which we knew from the beginning posed no threat to the main ship. If I remember correctly at the beginning of the season the relationships with the secondary love interests was formalized for both Marinette and Adrien. Except that Marinette's relationship lasted only one episode. And in the saltier side of the fandom, there had been a lot of analysis about the narratives treatment of Marinette, coming down to mostly "Marinette is at fault or responsible of everyone's problems" and the contrast to Adrien's own tratment " Golden boy who's always right". So when Chameleon aired, for many it was the last straw. As in that episode Lila quite literally put the whole class against Marinette (minus Chloe) and Adrien being the only one aware of Lila's manipulation told Marinette to not confront Lila about her lies because it would upset her and she would lie more, paired with Alya dismissing Marinette's claims of Lila liying, saying it was due to jealousy. All this caused a retoactive analysis of characters actions, specially Adrien and Alya. Adrien as Chat Noir for emotionally manipulating Ladybug, and Alya for enabling Marinette's crush when she wanted to move on, being the biggest takeaways. And seeing the tropes in some of these fanfics seems to aling pretty well with what was happening at the time. I hope I didn't come across as rude, but as someones who indulged in the salt fics post- chameleon, I think this could be another reason as to why this became as big as it is now.
As I have just come off of a Maribat and “Lila’s lies are exposed” high myself. I’ll give a little knowledge of why the heck there are so many ship in miraculous. 1 the main couple: the issue here is that with their secret identities their personalities differ quite a bit from civilian life, that combined with the horrible point that show will NEVER LET THEM KNOW ABOUT THEIR IDENTITIES. Started the love squad were each dynamic (ex: marichat, adrienatte, ect.) with that we already have four ships with only two characters. 2 there have been canonically five people with a crush on marinetter/ ladybug. With one (Nino) actually ending up in a relationship. With two being given multiple fanon ships, one being the Main love interest, and one being useless and never mentioned again. 3 WASTED. POTENTIAL.: many characters have just been dumped off since the show doesn’t care to explain them at all, notably, kagami (a girl to fight marinette for Adrien) Luke (second male lead that you know isn’t gonna win) and Chloe (who was close to getting a redemption but the writers hate her, a lot of fanon writes her as gay and it’s cute, in canon she seemed to like Adrien and also double as his only childhood friend) many other characters where just kind of dumped of but even with these three tons of ship come up, Luka and kagami, kagami and Chloe, Chloe and marinette, Adrien and Luka, the list goes on. Let me remind there are several other characters that were just forgotten with some really good ideas that will never be used. 4. Polygamy in the fandom: you will often see a couple of three or four in the miraculous fandom, it’s not always the main focus but it is there and it gets it’s own tag. It can be very sweet when done right. 5 Marinette class: my god there are so many and a lot of the episodes focus on them that there are at least two ships for each student, this includes the ones with only an episode dedicated to them. Mylene and Ivan may possibly be the only exception to this rule. 7 old concept: the old concept of miraculous didn’t follow marinette and Adrien but instead Bridgett and Felix, and given that many like that version more, shipping Felix and Bridgett with other characters and just adding them as if they had always been there isn’t something new. 6 crossovers: need I say more?
Hello! Long time DC fan here, (and by that, i mean the like, 20 years ive been alive.) who actually got into Miraculous and Mari-Bat when they happened (Tho I fell out of them for a few years, so my memory might be a bit botchy) I just recently got back into Mari-Bat stuff because of a DC deep dive I've been doing recently. From my personal experience, stuff like Chloe becoming Marinette's bf over Ayla was just a part of the trauma that writers wanted Marinette to go through, having your best freind turn their back on you and only having your former bully have your back seems to be a really well liked trope from what I've experienced (see: Peter Parker with Harry Osborn & Flash Thompson) As for why Damian kicked things off, I think what you mentioned might've had a hand in it, but it was mostly Damian not having many other pairings as well as just the general bad boy turns sweet for one person trope. (I wanna say I've also seen this trend with his Raven ship, btw I will defend those movies and that version of Damian with my LIFE! He is a good lil Goblin who had good development and the latest Robin comic is ALSO really good despite the John stuff that happened before.) As a whole though, I never really got TOO into the actual shipping part of Mari-Bat, I read a couple of Daminette ones and like, ONE Jasonette fic, but I was always more into the "Marinette being Bruce Wayne's child" stuff. (ALL OF THEM. XD) So I can't really give you much info on the appeal, but I hope what I did have helps. Looking at this whole thing from an outsiders perspective really makes it feel like a fever dream, the only other things I really remember is Wonder Woman's mom being a Miraculous wielder in the past and Plagg sinking Atlantis.
I didn't think I could get this worked up over a show I know nothing about crossing over with the batfam but I'm 18 minutes in and I've paused so many times with rants that I need to remind myself this is a video and you don't know I exist
@@rabnerd28 mostly the crossover. But also just the points that you bring up are ones I didn't know I had so much emotion in me for (like when you brought up that blue and gold have less fics than the ships in this crossover I yelled at my phone, cause our boys deserve so much better). Forgive my potentially incoherent ramblings, it's late, my mind is racing and while I expected you to see thid, a response sent me into a panic
The only Miraculous/Batman crossover I’ve read was Unsupervised by FaithWarrior, which does not follow the trends listed, so I was pretty surprised to hear… all that. (Btw more people should read Unsupervised. It’s nice)
This was really informative & thanks for doing deep dives into it. As a comic reader, I didn’t know about the controversia ships but do love Cassandra & Stephanie. Hearing about this, I prefer shipping Marinette X Jason cause I see those working instead of Damian & Mari. However if I was writing for Jason X Marinette of course make Mari grown up. I would keep Jason the same but pretend to not care for her but does. Him being all head over heels for Marinette feels so out of character to me. Guess I can only see Damian & Raven because the DCAU films. I understand the tough guy with a soft spot and a happy go lucky girl who can connect to the tough guy. For Miraculous ships, I don’t mind her & Luka but my favorite ship for her is with Fei. But I agree that people should be respectful to creators or people in the fandom. For Marinette’s friends in this crossover fanfiction I prefer her being friend with Stephanie, Cassandra, Barbra, Tim, Damian & Jason
part of the miraculous fandom here to confirm that i, too, hate maribat. also that i, too, would prefer if they just wrote more femslash miraculous fics instead. (because usually thats what im looking for in the first place, but i find maribat aus instead)
Honestly I'm not a DC fan, as I don't like and am overwhelmed by the big two superhero comics, but as a Miraculous fan I was somewhat surprised to learn about it, just how prevalent it is, and in general it sounds like regular salt garbage.
I'm at like...16:00 in the Video and I'll just out myself and say... I like MariBat. I was in both the DC and the MLB fandom before I found this and yeah, there are some shit fics and all but there are some really good fics too, especially from people who were in both fandoms before
crossover ships are so normal, it’s crazy how hated maribat is💀💀 but icl, the marinette x bruce ship is uh… not something i want to talk about at this time. anyways, friendly reminder to anyone that sees this: the filter function on ao3 is non-arguably the best thing to have ever existed
The most disgusting thing I have read in maribat stories was that Adrien harassing marinette. Like in every fic he is so obsessed with her and not to forget they turned the class into bullies who believe everything all the lies without even doing any research😅
42:30 I mean, Cass is also an adult and (by your logic, not DC’s since they’re still trying to claim that Tim is 17) so is Steph, since she’s a year older than Tim, so it’s both pedo and femslash
The thing I hate about Maribat is how nearly all the fics character assassinates every single Miraculous character other than Marinette. Like, the class might be stupid sometimes, but they're hardly abusive bullies, and I don't think Alya, who is actually a good friend, would turn on Marinette the way they always show. And why does Adrien become the violent and entitled incel, when Marinette is the stalker in canon. And every time one of them ends with "Adrien isn't the true black cat and has to give the ring to Damien" I want to strangle someone. It's just dumb.
The ones ive seen usually have adrien be pretty chill.
To be fair, Grant Morrison DOES regret demonizing Talia since he didn't read the comic where Bruce and her banged.
And to be honest, I think Spider-Man is more fitting to Miraculous Ladybug than Batman. Right age, bug themed, teen problems, etc.
It would have to be other than comic Spidey though, just cuz Peter's been in an adult in the comics since at least the 70's, but I've seen that crossover fandom and it's pretty much all been MCU Peter.
@@rabnerd28 Or have them set earlier in his career while he's in high school.
@@rabnerd28 Well, in said comics Peter doesn't catch a break, like it's writers written rule to make Spidy's life as miserable as possible. The guy lost his child to devil.
@@rabnerd28 Also, also. Spidy never grows past a certain point. When he hits the best note in his life he is dragged back in the reboot to his teens again climing the ladder being a punching bag that punches back. Spidy needs a break.
@@FreckleMcMur yeah, but they don't we-age him. He just looses all the good milestones in his life.
This whole thing reminds me alot of the danny phantom x dc au. I remember there being some fics back in like 2017 but its really picked up in the last couple years, especially on tumblr. Unlike the miraculous stuff, theyre usually gen. Sooooo many like, just pick a member to make dannys long lost secret twin. Or make him bruces son. But a lot of them just make it so his parents and or the government want to dissect him so he has to go on the run and wind up gothem. (The dissection is actually pretty par for the course for the dp fandom, so its not much of a leap.) There are so many of these fics now, its fascinating to me. And a lot of modern dp fandom leans on fanon more than canon, with a lot of people who haven't even seen all of the show, if any, and im certain most of these writers havent really interacted with dc outside of this. Great video, i love long videos where people talk about something ive necer heard of! Especially interesting to me how similar these occurrences are. I never thought theres was much overlap between the dp and miraculous fandoms, i wonder if i was wrong.
The more I hear about this Danny Phantom/DC crossover the more I think I should so some research for a video.
@@rabnerd28 Even if you don’t wind up making a video about it, it’s a pretty interesting rabbit hole imo! From what I’ve seen, there’s actually a lot of variety in the fics. They don’t seem to really follow a formula other than ‘Danny winds up in Gotham somehow and befriends the batfam’.
I was about to say the same thing!!! Especially with the amount of fics that feature Danny being adopted by Bruce or secretly being Bruce’s long lost child, or someone’s twin. I’m not a fan of those fics just because they normally woobify or infantilize Danny for the sake of angst, but they are very prevalent. It’s usually because Danny looks like a stereotypical Robin as he has dark hair & blue eyes. The best dp x dc fics imo are the silly ones that just want to see fun interactions or Danny being OP compared to most Gotham heroes/villains.
I fell into that rabbit hole.
I do not regret it though,
My favorite type of tumblr fics are the silly ghost King fics just because of how people are expecting to be summoning a very powerful and threatening King of the dead; And it just 14 year old Danny. And he's just like: "...Hi." ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)
I thought of it too! Funny because I never heard of Maribat before it came up on a tumblr poll and someone linked the video, but I had to block like 12 different keywords to keep the DPxDC from showing up on my dash and I've got a knee-jerk hate for Danny Phantom on sight now.
i've been baffled by this crossover since i found out about it a while back so thank you so much for this video i finally know what its whole deal is! also incredibly fun to hear you roast new 52 damien, hes tied for my fav robin but hes such a little bastard which i say with the utmost affection
OMG PLZ IVE NEEDED TO FIND THIS VIDEO FOR MONTHS. I FELT REALITY BEGIN TO CRUMBLE AROUND ME WHEN I STARTED SEEING MARINETTE TAGGED IN DC FICS
I haven’t watched the video but I’m gonna be blunt and say I hate Maribat with a burning passion.
1. I can’t stand sweet girl changes bad boy concept
2. I like DC too much to force Marinette into it
3. I don’t care for Marinette as a character
4. My experiences with Maribat has been “let’s kiss the ground Marinette walks on she does no wrong and everyone else around her are such horrible disputable people” and “she’s so strong, stronger than every Robin, she can outsmart Batman too”
Again it’s all from my personal experience in the fandom. It’ll be interesting to se the history behind why such a thing entered the world.
One thing I'm iffy about is the whole Lila Hawkmoth thing. Sometimes it feels like the show likes Hawkmoth too much and wants you to sympathesize with him enough to ignore the crimes he's committed. It feels like they want to justify it not rationalize it, (Glaciator 2 feels a little like they tried to show that he can have moments of being a loving father, and yet the next episode he sees his son having very obvious issues and he's ignoring him). Lila has no real excuse for why she does what she does, and I'd be fine with that, it just feels weird that the teen girl is treated as irredeemable versus the adult man, who abuses his son and preys on teenagers. There are other problems I hated how they never did anything with Chloe in season 4, except turn her back into season 1 Chloe. Yes, she betrayed the team in the season 3 finale, but she at least had the excuse that Hawkmoth was holding her parents hostage, now the show treats her like she'll take any excuse to fight Ladybug.
A person who has read maribat fics here, I was a huge fan of dc before i found miraculous. read the comics when i was a kid. got them wrapped up atm to kinda preserve them tho. they were very loved when i was a kid. anyway, i've read a few dc x miraculous comics. mostly the ones where marinette is just related to a justice league member and they had absolutely no idea about her being ladybug until she says something. anyway i want to talk about where i think certain tropes and themes in these daminette, robin x marinette fics are stemming from;
1st - Lila salt, i remember these fics coming out around the time chameleon from s3 came out. when we first meet lila, marinette walks into school to find everyone excitedly talking about the new student. One of the first things we find out as the audience is that Lila has claimed to be ladybug's best friend. alya, being the fangirl of ladybug she is, interviews her and posts it on her blog thinking that she's going to get exclusive information about ladybug. we then also find out later that she's claimed to know various famous people to different classmates depending on their career goals. we find this out when nino talks about how lila promised to introduce him to some producer/director (idk its been a while). Marinette hearing the ladybug thing knows she's lying. so later she tries to prove her wrong by proving she doesn't have arthritis in her wrist (another lie told later) by throwing a napkin at her. lila catches it and then proceeds to spin it like she caught it to protect another classmate, claiming that she once saw someone get their eye gouged out by a napkin despite the fact the person it would've hit if she didn't catch it wore glasses. the class hearing lila's lie then throws disapproving looks at marinette. so the need for the annoyance to get her castle of lies toppled down on her stems from that. btw i have found a few fics where there is lila salt at the beginning but she apologises, citing the reason for her lies is because she moves around a lot and wanted to be remembered by her classmates when she inevitably moved again but when she realises shes not moving she knows she's gone too far.
2nd - Adrien salt, now when i watched miraculous i understood that for both characters, their love is very much a bit llike puppy love. Marinette is obsessive and very much a stalker while Adrien puts ladybug on a pedestal (she's a godess, shes perfect, she can do no wrong) adrien's crush on ladybug translates into him constantly trying to flirt with her and impress her when they show up to fight an akuma. some people in the maribat fandom think that if the truth is stretched a lil bit it can be considered harassment as ladybug seems annoyed by his advances. there is also the fact that y'know, theyre fighting an akuma "why can't he do this at another time?" and so they depict adrien/cat noir as not having his priorities straight when it comes to being a superhero. Also having been someone who has been harassed like this. yeah i can say its semi accurate when they depict cat noir trying to manipulate ladybug to date him by sitting out of fights. my ex used his depression to get what he wanted. but i'd put this as an extreme and unique case however. Adrien's ignorance to how lila's lies can actually hurt people eg, alyas blog credibility. is also a factor but i think of his ignorance as akin to how a celebrity would deal with minor rumours in media and thats what i chalk it up to.
3rd - Alya salt, i know now from clips i see on tiktok every now and then that alya now knows marinette is ladybug because marinette couldn't handle the responsibilities of being a teenage girl and also being the literal hero of paris with no training, no supervision and no one (anymore) to guide her. however, these fics came out and became popular BEFORE this happened in the show. I'm pretty sure at one point alya called marinette jealous because lila was getting "close" to adrien (which in all fairness, alya WAS right. marinettes original hate of lila was mainly because of her jealousy) but it also seeded the doubt for whenever marinette called lila out for her lies and so alya just didn't believe her when marinette would try to prove or explain and put it up to marinette's jealousy. I think alya is fair for this but at the same time, bro if shes being adamant about it just listen to you best friend. there are fics now where there is zero alya salt. yes i looked up the tag on ao3 and did a skim thru to check.
All of this to say, I dont HATE the ship but i prefer fics where miraculous is just placed in the dc universe. preferably no ships and just keep the lila salt cause that harpy has it coming. honestly i just wanna see marinette as ladybug in the watch tower trying to beat cyborg at video games.
Edit: spelling mistakes and grammar
I remember reading Ozmav's fic, it was supossed to be just that a funny "what if". It started out as a simple crack-ship one-shot from the "salt" side of the fandom, that didn't like what the show was doing with the ship dinamics & conflict (stretching the confession and kiss (without "time travel so never happened" bs) till the final season & main girls fighting over a boy, and what many considered, somewhat justly, character assasinations all around).
(The fics did commit a lot of character assasinations of their own tho, mostly Miraculous ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
After more people liked it and began writing their own one-shot turned multichapter sagas (most of which used the scenario of the OG fic as a template). Later on the scenarios began to shift, and more characters began to be used and dinamics altered to satisfy the urge of the writer in regards to their tastes for miraculous. Lore, shipping, character dianamics, it was all miraculous centered with the DC characters and world as flavor.
As I remember the harassment started when the small community grew, but there were some singns early on, and because of the community's focus on miraculous most of the time DC characers were, well, out of character. So were most of the miraculous characters, but the salt side had had it's own scenarios for a while & burn out on the main pairing of the show was strong by then.
There were attempts at writing more closely to cannon DC with people relying on comic videos and taking the flavor of continuity they liked, but by then harassment was high and poor Ozmav took the brunt of it.
That's around when I stopped following the show and later on most of the fandom, so that's all I can say about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It took me a while to watch this bc I used to be a Maribat reader and even though I'm beyond that (mostly. There are some well written ones that I admit I will read updates of if they ever come again), this was very well spoken and I appreciate your point. From the POV of someone in the trenches, there are a few things that literally everyone did that would make me actually close the fic, were the nicknames ("angel" was on thin ice and only because it was literally everywhere, "pixie-pop" and variations from Jason, "ice prince of Gotham" and "sunshine princess" is actually making me have cringe tears). Personally, I enjoyed some Adrien Bashing, but Alya bashing was often worse and I've read many an essay about the misogynoir involved in that but I can't remember most of them since it's been so long. I agree that Batman vs the TMNT is very very good however my favorite Batman content is Superman/Batman: Public Enemies ("they're so married" -my sister) and TMNT 2003. But I think Batman vs TMNT is honestly second place for both
So I've only ever been tangentially aware of the whole matibat thing, but one thing I do have is more context as to possibly why this crossover exploded in popularity.
I could tell from just the summary of the original fanfiction, that this probably happen around the release of the S3 episode "chameleon", which in my educated guess, was the perfect timing for something like this to become super popular.
As another comment pointed out there was a lot of frustration in the fandom mostly over the dragged out romantic tension, in the form of the secondary love interests, which we knew from the beginning posed no threat to the main ship.
If I remember correctly at the beginning of the season the relationships with the secondary love interests was formalized for both Marinette and Adrien. Except that Marinette's relationship lasted only one episode.
And in the saltier side of the fandom, there had been a lot of analysis about the narratives treatment of Marinette, coming down to mostly "Marinette is at fault or responsible of everyone's problems" and the contrast to Adrien's own tratment " Golden boy who's always right".
So when Chameleon aired, for many it was the last straw. As in that episode Lila quite literally put the whole class against Marinette (minus Chloe) and Adrien being the only one aware of Lila's manipulation told Marinette to not confront Lila about her lies because it would upset her and she would lie more, paired with Alya dismissing Marinette's claims of Lila liying, saying it was due to jealousy.
All this caused a retoactive analysis of characters actions, specially Adrien and Alya. Adrien as Chat Noir for emotionally manipulating Ladybug, and Alya for enabling Marinette's crush when she wanted to move on, being the biggest takeaways.
And seeing the tropes in some of these fanfics seems to aling pretty well with what was happening at the time.
I hope I didn't come across as rude, but as someones who indulged in the salt fics post- chameleon, I think this could be another reason as to why this became as big as it is now.
As I have just come off of a Maribat and “Lila’s lies are exposed” high myself. I’ll give a little knowledge of why the heck there are so many ship in miraculous.
1 the main couple: the issue here is that with their secret identities their personalities differ quite a bit from civilian life, that combined with the horrible point that show will NEVER LET THEM KNOW ABOUT THEIR IDENTITIES. Started the love squad were each dynamic (ex: marichat, adrienatte, ect.) with that we already have four ships with only two characters.
2 there have been canonically five people with a crush on marinetter/ ladybug. With one (Nino) actually ending up in a relationship. With two being given multiple fanon ships, one being the Main love interest, and one being useless and never mentioned again.
3 WASTED. POTENTIAL.: many characters have just been dumped off since the show doesn’t care to explain them at all, notably, kagami (a girl to fight marinette for Adrien) Luke (second male lead that you know isn’t gonna win) and Chloe (who was close to getting a redemption but the writers hate her, a lot of fanon writes her as gay and it’s cute, in canon she seemed to like Adrien and also double as his only childhood friend) many other characters where just kind of dumped of but even with these three tons of ship come up, Luka and kagami, kagami and Chloe, Chloe and marinette, Adrien and Luka, the list goes on. Let me remind there are several other characters that were just forgotten with some really good ideas that will never be used.
4. Polygamy in the fandom: you will often see a couple of three or four in the miraculous fandom, it’s not always the main focus but it is there and it gets it’s own tag. It can be very sweet when done right.
5 Marinette class: my god there are so many and a lot of the episodes focus on them that there are at least two ships for each student, this includes the ones with only an episode dedicated to them. Mylene and Ivan may possibly be the only exception to this rule.
7 old concept: the old concept of miraculous didn’t follow marinette and Adrien but instead Bridgett and Felix, and given that many like that version more, shipping Felix and Bridgett with other characters and just adding them as if they had always been there isn’t something new.
6 crossovers: need I say more?
As a big fan of DC and a watcher of Miraculous, I was unaware that this AU or even the ship had existed in the first place.
Hello! Long time DC fan here, (and by that, i mean the like, 20 years ive been alive.) who actually got into Miraculous and Mari-Bat when they happened (Tho I fell out of them for a few years, so my memory might be a bit botchy) I just recently got back into Mari-Bat stuff because of a DC deep dive I've been doing recently.
From my personal experience, stuff like Chloe becoming Marinette's bf over Ayla was just a part of the trauma that writers wanted Marinette to go through, having your best freind turn their back on you and only having your former bully have your back seems to be a really well liked trope from what I've experienced (see: Peter Parker with Harry Osborn & Flash Thompson)
As for why Damian kicked things off, I think what you mentioned might've had a hand in it, but it was mostly Damian not having many other pairings as well as just the general bad boy turns sweet for one person trope. (I wanna say I've also seen this trend with his Raven ship, btw I will defend those movies and that version of Damian with my LIFE! He is a good lil Goblin who had good development and the latest Robin comic is ALSO really good despite the John stuff that happened before.)
As a whole though, I never really got TOO into the actual shipping part of Mari-Bat, I read a couple of Daminette ones and like, ONE Jasonette fic, but I was always more into the "Marinette being Bruce Wayne's child" stuff. (ALL OF THEM. XD) So I can't really give you much info on the appeal, but I hope what I did have helps. Looking at this whole thing from an outsiders perspective really makes it feel like a fever dream, the only other things I really remember is Wonder Woman's mom being a Miraculous wielder in the past and Plagg sinking Atlantis.
I didn't think I could get this worked up over a show I know nothing about crossing over with the batfam but I'm 18 minutes in and I've paused so many times with rants that I need to remind myself this is a video and you don't know I exist
Rants at me or the crossover?
@@rabnerd28 mostly the crossover. But also just the points that you bring up are ones I didn't know I had so much emotion in me for (like when you brought up that blue and gold have less fics than the ships in this crossover I yelled at my phone, cause our boys deserve so much better).
Forgive my potentially incoherent ramblings, it's late, my mind is racing and while I expected you to see thid, a response sent me into a panic
46:08 "come on it can’t be that much-1,716?! DAMN!"
U should see the danny phantom fandom
I honestly have to filter this one ALWAYS, otherwise I get annoyed while going on Tumblr or AO3, I personally don't like it at all
The only Miraculous/Batman crossover I’ve read was Unsupervised by FaithWarrior, which does not follow the trends listed, so I was pretty surprised to hear… all that.
(Btw more people should read Unsupervised. It’s nice)
This was really informative & thanks for doing deep dives into it. As a comic reader, I didn’t know about the controversia ships but do love Cassandra & Stephanie. Hearing about this, I prefer shipping Marinette X Jason cause I see those working instead of Damian & Mari. However if I was writing for Jason X Marinette of course make Mari grown up. I would keep Jason the same but pretend to not care for her but does. Him being all head over heels for Marinette feels so out of character to me. Guess I can only see Damian & Raven because the DCAU films. I understand the tough guy with a soft spot and a happy go lucky girl who can connect to the tough guy. For Miraculous ships, I don’t mind her & Luka but my favorite ship for her is with Fei. But I agree that people should be respectful to creators or people in the fandom. For Marinette’s friends in this crossover fanfiction I prefer her being friend with Stephanie, Cassandra, Barbra, Tim, Damian & Jason
part of the miraculous fandom here to confirm that i, too, hate maribat. also that i, too, would prefer if they just wrote more femslash miraculous fics instead. (because usually thats what im looking for in the first place, but i find maribat aus instead)
Personally think that it would be better if Batman had crossover with Danny Phantom.
Honestly I'm not a DC fan, as I don't like and am overwhelmed by the big two superhero comics, but as a Miraculous fan I was somewhat surprised to learn about it, just how prevalent it is, and in general it sounds like regular salt garbage.
Thank god people haven’t seen the spectacular Spider-Man x miraculous au
I'm at like...16:00 in the Video and I'll just out myself and say...
I like MariBat.
I was in both the DC and the MLB fandom before I found this and yeah, there are some shit fics and all but there are some really good fics too, especially from people who were in both fandoms before
crossover ships are so normal, it’s crazy how hated maribat is💀💀
but icl, the marinette x bruce ship is uh… not something i want to talk about at this time.
anyways, friendly reminder to anyone that sees this: the filter function on ao3 is non-arguably the best thing to have ever existed
The most disgusting thing I have read in maribat stories was that Adrien harassing marinette. Like in every fic he is so obsessed with her and not to forget they turned the class into bullies who believe everything all the lies without even doing any research😅
42:30 I mean, Cass is also an adult and (by your logic, not DC’s since they’re still trying to claim that Tim is 17) so is Steph, since she’s a year older than Tim, so it’s both pedo and femslash