Vandoren's New *VK1* Synthetic Reed - Hands-on Review
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- Опубліковано 22 кві 2023
- This was a long, long, loooooooooong time coming. Vandoren finally released a synthetic reed, and Katherine and I got our hands on them. Is it everything we have come to expect from Vandoren? Watch, listen, and see!
"I have here my buffet R13, which I figure most of you have at least played on and probably own.."
Sir, I believe you may be greatly overestimating my expendable income. If i saw that instrument in real life, I'd probably faint. It costs more than my current vehicle is worth.
That being said. Yall both play so beautifully 😍. Thank you for your reviews.
Oh man, this is really exciting. I went through a Légère phase where I was so annoyed at cane reed maintenance that I decided to switch to full synthetic for all playing. I did this for about 8 months and at first I felt liberated by the freedom of not having to maintain anything, but then as the months went by I just liked them less and less. They just didn't feel or sound as good as good cane reeds, and that 10% difference was more noticeable the longer I played on them. Eventually I ended up switching back.
There's gap in bass undertones/subharmonics. If you like colourless, that's up to you.
Great!
at some point legeres just die which sucks cus the price
@@mtndewfruitcakes6610to be fair, they die after a while, and when you compare that to the price of cane reeds it really isnt that bad
i really hope they make bass clarinet synthetics reeds
Yeah me too. They probably will. I've got a Legere synthetic that's my go to when all my canes shit me off
@@JayCee-hw4zc lmao i lost my synthetic
Katherine has a wonderful sound. Nice to hear since she teaches. Seems like the best teachers keep playing.
Before Legere, other synthetic reeds I had tried were too smooth, too slippery. I felt like my lip was sliding around on the reed. But Legere and Fibracell played well for me. Katherine alluded to something... how the reed reacts with the facing. I have measured so many mouthpieces over the years and found many, even top brands, the rails were uneven. I have often heard players complain they could only find one reed out of a box that played well. Perhaps they found the one reed that the crooked facing worked well with that crooked reed? When the table is flat, and the side rails even, many more reeds will work well. I've been refacing mouthpieces for nearly 30 years. I've been playing synthetic reeds for a couple of decades now. I look forward to trying the VK1's.
You're a good team, great segment, very helpful thanks.
I love your videos, they've been a large help throughout my years in band! i don't know what i would do without your tips :D
I hope to try them in Denver!
They sound very good. I could not tell which was which in the blind test and got it wrong on the second test! I play on Legere European Cut reeds but I am not always happy with them and I find the high notes can be a little thinner with Legere reeds. If I can find out the equivalent strength to my 3.5 European Cut reeds, I'll be trying these VK1 reeds when they are available in the UK as I want a better sounding reed and I have never got used to cane reeds no matter how many I have tried. Hope they will have a strength chart comparing them to other reeds like Legere, not just their own.
Katherine: “it hits ping requirements” 😂 I don’t know why I found this so funny!
Very interesting 🤔. Great review, as usual. 😊
WOWWWWWW!!!! I really could not tell the difference. I actually liked the sound of the synthetic reed better. I use vandoren V-12 (31/2) on a Backun Vocalise mouthpiece now. But I would like to try the Vandoren Synthetic #40 when they come to market. Thx so much for the comparisons testing. Best , Tom
I love the Legere reeds. I'll give these a try too.
It was very interesting, but most important is how they feel when playing! Don`t like my Legere because of the weird feeling.
definitely try them when they would be out for sale! I hope they put on sale reeds for bass clarinet too.
With cane reeds have real trouble lately, 3.5 too hard, 3 too light. Thinking of changing my BD5 for something else
Go Michigan!!!! I also went through a synthetic reed phase. The problem with synthetic reeds is the density and the core that is not present. I found that in live situations I could not play at the volume that was needed for any ensemble. I also found that the reeds played much flatter for that reason. Many of them just don’t have the core, being either too high or too low on the frequency spectrum, or just buzzing like crazy with no hard core.
They sound great and I'm hoping it won't be too long before they are available for Bass Clarinets. I've been very happy with the Black Onyx Fiber reeds by Harry Hartman and a bit surprised that you've not reviewed them. They are carbon fiber and I've found them better than the Legere.
I'm very interested. I love the concept of synthetic reeds, but have never managed to make any of them work with my playing.
Nice testing review. The synthetic seemed to me to project a bit better/more than the cane in these tests. [maybe just my speakers?] I have absolute interest in another option for synthetic reeds. I have worked with several different ones and have some definite favorites (and not favorites) and more players on the market will hopefully push for improvements across the board. The biggest challenge is getting the right strength for your setup... and that takes trial and error... which gets pricey if you need to get a variety to try out. And then there's my other mouthpieces that all react a bit differently...
Something I didn't catch in this review... are these VK1 reeds smooth, or have a caney texture? Some I have tried are slippery/waxy feeling, some are too rough and at least one had grooves/ridges the length of the face and that just chewed my lips up. One of the best (IMO) texture-wise, and that I like the play of, is the Fibrecell, but they're getting really hard to come by.
As has been mentioned previously, I hope they are made available for bass (and saxes), and will be onsite to try out in Denver for Clarinetfest. Cheers. 🎶
I would love to know if they plan to make the harmony clarinets and saxophone reeds as I play a ton of bass clarinet, b-flat, e-flat, and tenor saxophone. I've been extremely happy with my Leuthner 4.5 French cut reeds on an M30 (13) mouthpiece for over a decade now, but I tend to like playing Legeres when I'm marching since they are less affected by the elements and are more consistent. I find Legeres on b-flat often have issues once you go into the altissimo, specifically intonation and response suffer heavily. For bass clarinet, believe it or not, I've been playing on the same size 4 Legere since 2011.
This is exciting! With the way these have the [fancy science word used in the video] fiber-looking things, I'm reminded of the Fibracell reeds which I currently swear by. Hope Vandoren makes these for bass soon I'm interested to try!
It was sad that Michael couldn't review a Fibracell when he did his reviews. One of my band mates told me about them over a year ago and I switched. So much better than the Legere.
If a synthetic reed sounds as good as a fine cane reed and it can last longer and cannot dry out, but costs more, who cares. We should try them and perhaps play them. You can sanitize them with some disinfectants or lights that were used to sanitize face masks.
I can't see negatives with these reeds. I love fibracell on my saxes and love the European cut Legere on my clarinet. I would love to try the Vanduran product.
Can't wait to purchase a few!
Grat video!
I have a 1982 R13 and a fairly new Selmer Presence. I need to try these reeds!
Great I play exclusively synthetic by Legere and prefer the European cut on clarinet and American on saxophones. If these Vandoren reeds are similar I shall be trying them but probably some will remain with A. Donax ! Bill. UK
Your daughter is very cute and nice that she would make a video with you!🙏
BTW that synthetic sounds really good!
Lol. That’s my wife!!
Do you have any idea how much these will cost? Or if they will have something like legere’s reed exchange program? (Also when are these available to buy online?)
Love that shirt!
I hope they have a sizing chart and exchange policy, similar to Legere.
I’ve been playing legere on sax for a while, I’ll have to check these out
Thanks for the review but can you tell me more about the strength numbering system? You mentioned that Vandoren told you that one would otherwise have to get use to “one sixth” sizes yet it would seem there are only six strengths in total ie. 35,40,45,50,55,60 - that’s not any different than the traditional strength divisions… or am I missing something..?
Are these reeds super smooth like other synthetic reeds? I have a Legere for bass clarinet and I have a problem keeping the mouthpiece centered in my mouth due to difference between cane and synthetic.
I have tried cane reeds a number of times and find that if one isn't really handy at "tweaking" them, they are a "pig in a poke." Absolutely no consistency and hard on the lower lip. I use Legere American cut 2.25 and 2.5 reeds and love them. I am not a professional sax player, but have managed to develop a very nice, warm sound using the Legere reeds.
I apologize, but I prefer both of you on the synthetic. That’s crazy!
I can’t get next to Legere on Bb but I do play them on bass. This is exciting, but I foresee spending a lot of money finding the correct size
Which cut does this VK1 resemble the most (Traditional/blue, V12, Rue Lepic 56 etc) in playing feel and mouthpiece compatibility?
Currently I am playing on Legere European cut reeds. And they are great. However, Vandoren has been the gold standard for clarinet reeds for many years, and there is no doubt that have created a good synthetic reed. The big question is this: Compared to Leger reeds, there is a price premium of 35-40% more for the VK-1s, and as such, are the Vandoren VK-1s that much better to justify the price premium...?
FINALLY AGAIN, GLAD TO SEE YOU FIXED THE VIDEO!😊
Yeah, sorry about that.
Great review! Hopefully, I can get my hands on some and test them out too!
The blind test was very interesting. Based on what I heard in the results of Katherine's I got it wrong when Michael did his test. I think this shows that the playing is very dependent on the player and the variance of the cane reeds, so theoretically these reeds should be in line with cane reeds with the (again theoretical) benefit of lasting longer and being more consistent day to day.
I feel that Legere reeds also achieve that when you get used to them.
The red flag that is potentially my biggest problem with synthetic reeds is that the reed to reed consistency still seems to not be great considering that you both had a favorite #40. I do mostly like the new number system, and it seems like it could be a promising solution to the reed to reed variance.
Ok, I use a size 3 on my bd5. Usually the stronger ones in the box. What size do I try?
How do the vandoren reeds line up with Légère Euro Signatures numbering-wise?
where did you get those pair of glasses
I know companies always push the whole "will last longer than cane reeds" but I seem to always break the synthetic ones I buy. I know it's probably a personal problem but I would go full synthetic reeds if they aimed to make them cheaper.
Excellent!!
Needed more about stiffness
New number system
GOOD NEWS!
Thanks
VanDoren's website recommends which strength of reed to use with each mouthpiece. I expect the synthetic reeds will be included in future.
Thanks!
That’s crazy I just rewatched the legere video yesterday and now this one gets uploaded. Haven’t even played bass in like 3 years either
It'll be really nice to try them on soft dynamics since almost all the reeds sound playing loud...
Is it just soprano clarinet reeds, or will they carry the whole line of reed instruments?
Sir. I've decided that I don't like you anymore because you sound FANTASTIC on every set up you demonstrated!!
I don't know the tip openings of the mouthpieces you tried, but I'd be curious to know if there is a correlation between the reeds you chose and the opening of the mouthpiecez
For sure there is bound to be.
Synthetics seems as if it eliminates a lot of the ringing/higher overtones. The synthetic sounds better, love the video.
I’m hoping for a tenor sax reed that works on my Otto Link 7* mouthpiece.
Sounds great!
Will they make them for the bass clarinet as well do you know?
Eventually. No timeline yet.
I'm floored 👌👌👌👌👌👌ugh miss my clarinet so much 😩😭😭😭😭😭
Nice sound.
You didn’t mention the bass clarinet. Will these be available for bass clarinet and saxophone?
eventually?
The plastic in the reed may be a recyclable type of plastic, but Massachusetts does not allow pieces of plastic smaller than a cellphone-. Which means that the reed is not recyclable. That being said, great video!
Thanks for that info. In NYC, we are told to put every plastic thing in the recycling, but as we know statistically only 9% of plastic actually gets recycled. It's a real struggle to ust use less plastic because it is literally everywhere.
Plastic recycling has become a big boondoggle (as my spouse puts it). It's really difficult to get behind a system that keeps using plastics, no matter how wonderful the reeds sound. And they do sound wonderful! Maybe Vandoren could have a way to return the reeds and melt them down and re-form them?
I just cannot get on with synthetic reeds but now Vandoren has made one this might change. Are they going to be available for sax too? Great video by the way.
They will be available for sax -- just not yet
It sounds promising 😮
Ok..........I have tried all the other synthetic ones and they are all different for sure. The European Signature 3 3/4 is good for me.
I do like the way the reed articulates seeing that it snaps faster off the mouthpiece. I have used them in some performances where I don't have to play too aggressively. It works best up to around mp or even some mf. Interesting I had a student perform the Lindberg Concerto and using your teeth on the reed to achieve the highest partials doesn't seem to work with the synthetic.I have made my own reeds for years along with using Moore's as models and some in performance. I'm down to my last few boxes sadly. I. have recently been experimenting with Vandoren V-12's 3 1/2 + on my M15 and they are very good. Also work well on my Wodkowski and Behn mpts. The M 15 seems to get me a longer phrase than the other two and projects with color. I will be anxious to try the new Vandoren synthetic when it becomes available. I had a high school student do a recital a few years ago and he sounded better than ever. He said he tried all his reeds and the synthetic was the best and used it. I couldn't tell. For me I have some issues with the way the reed feels on my lip when playing. I've experimented using paper tape on the top of the reed to simulate the cane feel. Seemed to work somewhat. Richard Hawkins showed me how to take some material off the reed by sanding the back with 2000 paper.
I have heard that people do adjust the vamp with a knife and for me that doesn't work. I use different colored reeds for different works that I perform and find more flexibility in timbre than with the synthetic.
Even if plastic is recyclable that doesn't mean it is eco-friendly. Plastic is still plastic.
Any chance you will review the D'Addario Organic Reeds?
When I tried the legere read one problem I had was playing the high notes with the same flexibility
When will they be out there for us normal peeps to buy?
Sorry, I’m so new to clarinet….but how long does a synthetic reed last compared to a cane reed?
Like everything, it depends. Typically, if rotated with other synthetic reeds (as in, don't always play the same one every day), they can last months and months-I know some that are in use up to 6-8 months.
Wow. I hope saxes get them also.
How much are these reeds gonna cost?
I need this dudes shirt 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😂😂😂😂😂
Those seem to sound OK.
Can we buy these online? Or do we have to go in-person to the studio?
Right now, go to the studio.
Studio only currently before public release per Vandoren’s US head
I am in Brooklyn. Maybe I could come by for a lesson sometime and try some out?
also, only like 5-10% of "recyclable" plastic actually ends up getting recycled in the US these days, and it's a problem we haven't yet figured out how to solve. Doesn't mean we should give up though, like many would argue. Every little bit helps, but I think the amount of waste energy that goes into manufacturing the cane reeds is probably worse than a single plastic reed you'll use for months and months.
Sure -- send me a note from earspasm
Did I miss the part where u say they r available. Website address?
do they squeak less?
And I thought I’ve seen everything haha. Vandoren and synthetic reeds; I never thought those three words would ever combine. But in all seriousness this is extremely interesting. I don’t know when this will be made available publicly nationwide, however considering the marching season isn’t far away again, maybe if it becomes available in time I’ll have to try one out! Also I personally play on Rue Lepic 3.5. Which strength do you think I should use once they become available?
I heard that the MSRP is $77!
Me too!
Where did you get the shirt??
Made it myself!
@@earspasm Are you going to sell them? It's awesome!
@@markalanpalmer7787 Most definitely!
@@earspasm Best of luck. At first glance I thought you were advertising Domino's Pizza.
I'd be more excited if Vandoren would make new cane reeds.
"squeak big" 😂😂😂😂😂😭🙌
I won the guessing game and haven't played in 20 years since middle school. The sound is so different and the synthetic is so much nicer sounding.
I might have liked them better than cane
I got both blind tests right, btw
Can you do a CLARIMATE Review?
Does your wife play the bass clarinet. If so you should have a video playing together
Why must nobody make any synthetic reeds for contra alto? Yes, there are bari sax reeds, but I’m never certain just how differences in cut will effect contra, as they are completely not made for clarinets
Do they exist for bass too?
Not yet -- just Bb for now.
1/6 increments Sales people rubbing their hands in anticipation!
The BIG question is, "Can they be shaped at home?"
Still disagree with the strength numbering system. Even by their own chart their could be a standard numbering system: 35 is 2.5, 40 is a 2.5+/2.75, 45 is a 3, 50 is a 3+/3.25, 55 is a 3.5, and 60 is a 3.5+/3.75
Nobody's talking about pitch in the comments?
The pitch was noticeably worse on the synthetics in both blind tests.
Why are these MADE in Europe but not even AVAILABLE in Europe (but only in the USA) for now? Is Vandoren not interested in their home market anymore? Bad start, in my opinion.
hmmmm. Synthetic reed sounding better than cane on a synthetic mouthpiece. Maybe a synthetic clarinet might be good too....... ;-)
Curieux d'essayer. Mais même erreur que chez Légère - qui sont d'excellents produits - la matière est transparente et donc l'anche sera très difficile à placer sur le bec car on verra très peu son extrémité. Dommage ...
reupload?
Yep
@@earspasm I'm a bit prejudiced against synthetic reeds due to personal experiences with them, but I was very impressed with these ones. I was the one who messaged you about mouthpiece resistances a few days ago, and if I can find these reeds when they come out, I will definitely consider them in finding an optimal setup.
Did Vandoren give you any idea of a price point? And if they're going to have a replacement strength offer like legere?
Vandoren, please, add some opaque colour to the resin! If the reeds require perfect positioning, on a black mouthpiece on black clarinet, then a semi-transparent reed is a bad idea! Manufacturers of reeds, please, stop making black reeds and semi-transparent reeds - they are a total pain to put on or find! Cane reeds are better for that reason alone - they are yellow, opaque, and can be put on even in dark concert halls, can be easily spotted on the floor, in the gig bag … even by old geezers with glasses like myself!
like all other vandoreen reeds -i am sure these will be way too hard for me. mike try the hartman carbon fiber reed on bass. the atom bomb for jazz/ dolphy
What type of Vandoren reeds have you tried?
All synthetic reeds have the same demand of precision, I have noticed. Even a small change of height or width makes a big difference. It is just logical, that Vandoren can make the best non-cane reeds, because they know the most of making of the reeds in general. So far it has not been in their interest to start producing synthetic ones, so they have been able to sell the cane ones... but the good cane is getting hard to get, thanks to the climate change etc.
Why re-invent the wheel ?!? We've used Légère's exclusively since 1995, as one of the early testers and adopters. Look no further than Légère !! And they're made right here IN CANADA!!! 🙂
“New synthetic reed released (but not for you).”
FYI there's no such thing as a 'recycling number'. Those are resin codes - it tells what type of resin was used to make the item. Has nothing to do with recycling. Many of the resin codes that have the recycling-like symbol are not recyclable at all. It looks like recycling symbol on purpose, but if you look one up, you'll see it's not the same.
I disagree with you about sanding/scraping synthetic reeds. This can be done quite safely and I find it is necessary more often than not because it is impossible to choose the exactly correct reed strength unless you get a bunch of them from the manufacturer as you do.
Audio quality is lacking.. This sounds like the microphone on the phone as opposed to a quality microphone. That isn't going to be a decent test due to initial record
ing chain limitations.
Truth -- UA-cam is not exactly audiophile, is it? FWIW, the microphone used was a $2,000 tube mic.
@@earspasm Then something is terribly wrong in the recording. I get better sound off a $150 condensor than this.
UA-cam can embed 48k uncompressed audio. Maybe higher I don’t bother with higher.
Fibracell