Many of us are struggling right now and for those who need to ground themselves in something normal and lighthearted, I have decided to post this video as scheduled. Please be kind to each other (and yourselves) today. ❤
My favorite problem solver anecdote. Back in the '80s, I ran a competition module at a local con. One of the players asked if he could add some items to his pre-generated chacter -- specifically, "A pot of honey and a book of bad elvish poetry." Sure. No problem. Later in the adventure, when they were trying to sneak into a building unnoticed, he walks up to a locked door that had a small window. "I take out my honey," he tells me, "and smear it all over the glass. They I rip pages out of the poetry book and stick them all over the honey. Now I use the pommel of my dagger to carefully break the glass and, since it's stuck to the honeyed paper, it won't fall in and crash on the floor, alerting the guards... right?" You're darn tootin', buddy. Have some luscious extra XPs for that bit of cleverness!
It must be inconceivable for young people how some dude running into a dungeon managed to become one of the biggest memes of a previous generation. But here we are. Absolute generational gap.
@@ruolbu As a barely gen z in denial, the generation after me is far more inconceivable to me than yours. Besides, gen α has Skibidi toilet, I think your guy running into a dungeon makes perfect sense Edit: corrected generation
I'd suggest another type: Helper. The players who really like to play a cleric. The spellcasters whose favorite spell is Identify. The ones who prefer a support role in the group, using ranged weapons instead of melee weapons. The ones who collect obscure magic items that "might come in handy someday." They're quick to help the little girl find her lost puppy, without ever wondering if the little girl's adult vocabulary might be a tip-off that she's a polymorphed sorceress looking for a victim. They are the opposite of instigators, the best friend of fighters, and they don't have much use for explorers.
I think that sounds a little like problem solver, just a specific subset. Maybe a bit of actor or storyteller too. (I don't think anyone is strictly one type, we're all blends of different preferences and our personality and preferences in other areas affect how those manifest.)
I also heard this framed as the Optimizer! Particularly when they optimize their build to help others power up too. It’s a great example of how each player type can be approached in unique ways, and how every type can collaborate with others effectively.
I think I might be partly one of these, at least when it comes to combat, from how much I've enjoyed playing a Bard and taking a more supportive role in fights. We have a lot of casters in the group, but other than the cleric, most of them loaded up on damage spells, and we have a barbarian, so I figured I would choose my character's spells with supporting them in mind. Faerie Fire, Silence and Counterspell for enemy spellcasters, Enhance Ability for when our super-squishy wizard needs that temp HP or we need to drag a massive corpse somewhere, Knock for locks, Feather Fall because I know none of them would have taken it and sometimes it comes in handy. It's definitely a different playstyle from my two past characters, but it's still fun and satisfying in its own way.
I'm just imagining that one TikTok where someone talks about their cat coming up to their table and started rolling the dice while one player was away, so they just ran with it, said the druid is just in permanent wild shape, and pulled up a whole new chair for the player once they got back! XD
I'm also this type! I live for the moments when I can deal real life psychic damage to the GM and the players by describing the horrifying things my character does...to help out. I play a Modron artificer, and cure wounds involves bone saws, gigantic syringes full of glue, a staple gun, and screwing metal plates into your broken bones. For some reason the rest of the party goes running in terror when I ask if anyone requires medical attention.😂
Homebrew rewards is the secret to getting optimizers to play well with others. Having actual powerful magic items and other rewards that interact in interesting and unexpected ways with their current build helps them stop obsessing over the next level up since the most optimal choices depend on the available items. It gets them excited about unique builds that only work because of the items they get.
Few things are as frustrating as a DM that never allows a party to have down time to work on side things, or a DM that never allows a party to get loot.
You clearly never had your DM accidentally drop a CR 8 encounter on your level 3 party. Quick reminder that a PC of level X is CR X, and two creatures of CR X is a CR X+2 encounter. So a party of 4 level 4 PC you created is not supposed to be a "fair" or "challenging" fight for your party of 4 level 3 players. Just one of these level 4 PC is already a fair/challenging encounter (Sorry I don't know the names of difficulties in english)
@hitihautriponel419 I'm not sure how that's relevant to my comment but that is not even remotely true. I've put a level 6 pc I built in front of 4 level 3 characters and they wiped the flour with the level 6 npc. Action economy.
@@johnnycoleman75 Fair, I've missed my point. I was reading through the comments so I just replied on yours to summarize my feelings. I was just telling that I loved being an optimizer when my DM would consistently mess up the CR of the encounters (and starve us of loot but that one was by design). The CR system is pretty bad anyway, you're right. The actual best way to help optimizers is to set them apart and straight up tell them "Look, this encounter was about as hard as I expect the campaign to be, relative to the party's power level. Your PC is about the power level I expect you to be in 3-4 levels and I suspect the others will be lagging behind, or relying on you, too hard instead of developing their own PC. I would like us to either reduce your power progression or maybe even reduce your actual power a bit so you are around 1-2 levels ahead of everyone instead." If you still have free time and he keeps telling you of his new breakthroughs, maybe even host a small campaign where he could put himself to the test. Do still tell him that you expect this one to be much smaller than usual, around 1-2 sessions long, that you will put less efforts into this one, and that if anyone else wants to join you might have to artifially bump them up through magical gear so they could live a bit of his power fantasy. (Tell them that this loot they are having is way above what they would usually get. Let them know that they should not expect to have such powerful PCs in an ordinary campaign.) (If you do not want your player to use this OP gear tell your players that this gear will "be treated with the respect you have to a fallen comrade" or something like that, but do tell them that you are doing this so this player can have fun through his knowledge of the game instead of OP gear. Speaking of experience, OP gear you don't deserve isn't too fun in the end. If it doesn't matter to you please go wild and give him those +5 weapons with 3 other enchants on top, the power fantasy with those is wild.) In short, talk to them about it.
I found that when I stopped treating it as a night where "I run a game of D&D" to "we play a game of D&D" the games became much more enjoyable and the stories became much better. (I also want to say I really like how you do your sponsor segments. They're always adorable and so well done.)
@@GinnyDi yeah, there was this session where an archfey had us go through challenges. And one of them had an npc say you needed to anger him to get the key. My Fairy barbarian immediatelly stabbed him. Granted, she has Intelligence 8. I would however be more likely to go for talking with my School of Eloquence Tiefling Bard (mostly deception though). It depends on the character I'm playing though to be fair, I prefer Chaotic Neutral
I think I saw myself as an Optimiser for way too long. Optimising was just what my ADHD brain did when I couldn't play as much as I wanted to. And I've always prioritised what's fun and makes sense in the world for characters I actually play. In reality at the table I'm more of a problem solver/storyteller. The more I try to plan out of the game for what can happen in game, the less fun I have and that took me a LONG time to learn and a lot of frustration that cool things I wanted to do just didn't happen... for years of playing a character built for it. These days I just give myself options when making a character but other than that, I let the game decide where things go, take notes, ask questions and I'm much more interested in the big picture and helping NPCs than any personal gain. That said I've wanted glamoured armour for 30 years and I've never fucking had any and I'm still salty! At the end of Waterdeep Dragonheist we got our reward and went shopping, there was glamoured studded leather armour for sale. it would have cost 80% of the total party funds from a 2 years social game to buy it, for a campaign that was wrapping up. I'll be honest, my enjoyment of wrapping up that game died in that shop. So maybe there is a little actor in there that wants a new fancy outfit on command while wearing armour, I just don't like the spotlitght.
I really relate to this (esp as someone with ADHD). Since starting a campaign with friends early this year, my -fixation- excitement for DnD has only grown, but (resolved) scheduling issues kept us playing once every 2-3 months up to now. This meant in the meantime, my enthusiasm has gone into stuff I suspect might be in line with what you described doing Do you have any further advice for someone who might be spoiling their own fun?
Love this kind of video. So many people talk about practicing good communication, session zero, and to make sure your play group is all on the same page and wants the same things outta the game, but it's so rare to see people actually dive into it. It's rare to hear about _how_ to communicate well, _how_ to run a session zero, and detailing _how_ to get on the same page and figure out if you want the same things.
Thanks so much! You know I’m a big fan of session zero-it’s such a game-changer for building a group that clicks. I really want to help make it easier for anyone to dive into, especially if they’re new to the process!
@@GinnyDi Very much that yes, and you did it in a wonderful way. A session zero shouldn't just be about trigger warnings and what people are comfortable with at the table, but also what they like. I'd hate to spend half a session managing a keep or ship for example. I'd rather spend that time moving the story along or finding out more about characters. (Other than in debt knowledge of their managing skills.)
I play DnD to have fun with my friends, and hopefully make/ experience a fun story while playing. It's my first DnD campain and we're on session 4. I am mainly a fighter and investigator/ explorer with a bit socializing in between when people are looking things up or taking small breaks. I'm here for the story, and try to give input. I just dont feel comfortable being an actor/ storyteller yet, but im making progress and starting to use 3rd person to describe my actions and first person to ask questions to npcs.
I’m a forever DM, but as a player, I think I’m an actor/optimizer/storyteller/socializer. I love getting into character, telling a good story, and making my character powerful, but at the end of the day, I’m here to have a good time with my friends. Also, great job with the sword joke; you really had me shivering with antici…
While I don't consider myself a "socializer" player, I love seeing my party regularly and spending quality time with them! 🥰 It's a really lovely bonus to a fun game.
I think this is more and more prominent for me as the years go by. It becomes so critical to have a regular occasion to see your friends once the structures of school and such fall away, and as people start having independent lives and even families. I'm 36 and deeply grateful for what games give me in this regard, and when I started RPGing at 13 it definitely wasn't on my mind.
Good that you use the sword two-handed when dealing with socializers (based on damage). But if they interrupted your character acting, add the +2 Rage bonus.
I'm wierdly not a fighter even if I'm well built for it, remove heads and move on. I mean I did once fight a whole camp of bandits, but that was for roleplay, wanted to gift a dragon with a meal whilst protecting the village he saw as his horde, just a few quick rolls of stealth and attacks. I made it take as little play time as possible.
Do I need to worry about myself if I feel like I’m every one of them? (Apart from the socializer, that is) Anyway, I feel like it doesn’t get mentioned enough, but I really love your writing skills. Your scripts are always on point: not a single second of the video is wasted, and every line delivers either in content or entertainment. Comedic times are on point, and everything works together really well. Seriously, keep doing great things!
I want every player to have a subplot, a story arc, and growth. Changing the world around you is satisfying and emotionally investing. Grab hold of that plot! I guess that makes me the storyteller. =)
That's the one thing I feel my dm doesn't do often enough. It makes it hard to write a character when it feels like most of it only matters to me. Have a game coming up this Sunday and I'm struggling to make something I know I'll enjoy.
@@ArcanoSilverwind My recommendation... take the GM aside and say you want to make it personal. Just run with the main plot as if its trauma from your character's backstory, and maybe the GM will respond... even if its just because someone appreciates their plot.
This was really useful for me, I played D&D for the first time last week and felt like I maybe hadn't done a very good job because I wasn't great at the roleplay part (my character calls people "dude" a lot more often than they really should), but after watching this I realise I'm just a not that type of player and that's ok. I did loot every dead body finding some important keys though, and asking the right question when the DM described a wall as being "mostly" hewn rock lead to us finding the secret passage that the other players were going to miss, so maybe I'm just more of an explorer type!
That sounds like a great first session! Not everyone needs to be heavy on roleplay to enjoy D&D, and it sounds like your instincts as an Explorer are spot-on. Picking up on details and finding those hidden keys and secret passages is the kind of game-changing contribution every party needs!
Hey, congrats on the first session. Not everyone has to sound like they've stepped out of lord of the rings and be deeply connected to their characters. The only thing you _have_ to do is have fun...that's why Ginny carries a sword.
My main group right now is a Fighter (me), an Optimizer, and a Socializer. Works out pretty well, definitely a "minimal roleplay" table. The other group I play with has an Actor, an Instigator, and a couple others I haven't quite pegged yet, but I suspect they may both be Storytellers. Lots more RP going on there. The problem is that the DM has set up an Exploration-heavy campaign, and I'm not sure anyone's really into it...
I think I’m an Actor-Storyteller-Optimizer, BUT I always make sure to optimize for the good of the group. Like, I love pulling off game-breaking combat combos, but ONLY when it involves another player (that way, I’m helping others feel cool, instead of just it being the Me Show). I also currently play a blaster-support for this reason, as, while she doesn’t get kills often, she’s always making everyone else more efficient, making her super impactful without stealing the spotlight.
I love your take on optimization! Pulling off big moves while making the whole team look awesome is next-level. That’s the kind of party member everyone loves to have around!
I consider myself a storyteller-optimizer, which for me means I want to optimize within the bounds of my character concept. Which concept is often weird and suboptimal itself.
Yeah if you enjoy the optimiser side you have to be careful in most groups not to overdo it and spoil the game for everyone. Helps if the DM at least has a splash of optimising in them too, but if you play to aid your party rather than be so dominatingly efficient you effectively do it all yourself then everyone can still have fun, even if you make things a bit too easy. Though I also enjoy optimising concepts for the meme/fun value rather than just being the best at something obviously useful or going for the how can I make an effective build with awful stats (if your stats are worse than the less optimised player it brings you more inline naturally, while creating an additional fun challenge to build around) - my favourite so far at least is to dump Con rather hard, as that adds some real risk you won't survive even one hit especially at the lower levels, so you have to play smarter and lets play around with those entertaining but too MAD (multi-ability-dependent) build ideas you have had that really demand too many good stats.
@@suedenim Yes, I'm like that too! I'm never optimising to deal the most damage, I just want to bring my weird character idea into the world. It's not my fault that idea requires three different multiclasses and tons of optimising to make the resulting combination playable! One of my most recent characters was optimised with the goal of having the most possible pseudodragons. She wasn't that strong but she sure did have a lot of lil dragons.
I love your self deprecating humor, your counter jokes before they are thought, your energy, and the style you choose to change wording for each bullet point. Great quality video. I love them!
It's interesting how the different types of player described above correspond to different approaches in the psychology of learning and play. There is an important model of the psychology of Learning/play by honey and Mumford. Based on earlier work by kolb. they divide learning/play into four key parts. Activity, reflection, theorising, and testing. Everybody uses each of these steps however most people have a favourite place to start. Activists love to jump in and get things going, reflectors like to get their ducks in a row organising their actions before they act, theorizer's like to strategize 1st, testers like to poke it with a stick and see what happens.
That’s fascinating! The connections between player types and learning/play models really add another layer to how we approach D&D. The model makes so much sense here-‘activity’ as instigators, ‘reflection’ as storytellers, ‘theorising’ as problem solvers, and ‘testing’ as explorers. It’s amazing how D&D taps into these psychological preferences in such a natural way!
@@GinnyDi This can also help build an understanding of both party dynamics and player dynamics. Activists want to jump in and get going. Strategists want to hold back and think things through. the barbarian wades in before the battle master forms a plan. This creates tension between them. Reflectors like to get there ducks in a row before they act. Testers like to deliberately upset things to see what happens. the rouge was to start a fight to see what happens, the bard wants to control with charm and persuasion. This creates tension between them. Often (but not always) players like to explore different approaches through their characters e.g. players with highly strategic day jobs like cut loose with an activist barbarian in the evenings.
Now I´m trying to make a DND Player Alignment chart :D One Axis would be Acting vs Planning while the other axis would be Emotional vs Rational (basically how much you care about your characters personality). Instigator is acting emotinal, Actor is true emotional, Storyteller is planning Emotional, Problem solver is true planning, Explorer is true neutral, Fighter is true Acting, Rational Planning is Optimizer, True Rational is socialiser and everyone Acting Rational has stoped playing DnD when Looter Shooters were invented.
I was gonna skip the ad but it was very well made and actually drew me in, then i had ended up watching the whole thing before i even realized what was happening lmao. great job!
Here's where you're wrong! I think I'm a socialiser/storyteller and I watch your channel because I enjoy your vibe and original characters so that's definitely a 'socialiser' reason to watch you haha
I didn't hear myself in any of these until you got to Storyteller. Suddenly I was completely called out. How dare you so easily define me?! Great video. Loving the content.
Oooh a truly excellent video as always! I’m basically a Storyteller - Explorer with a Problem solver/ Actor Rising if you will. Really fascinating how this influences perspectives on the game. I’m one to get SUPER into World Building and Character Arcs for example.
Happy to help! 💖 That simple question is such a smart way to get everyone on the same page. And yep, it’s all in the DMG-it's wild how much good stuff is tucked away in there!
"Seriously, they're gonna start any day now" -Ginny, taking aim straight through my soul, reading me for filth. I think my balance is primarily storyteller and investigator, with large doses of explorer and problem solver, and just enough optimizer that I can't bring myself to completely disregard actual utility for total flavour appropriateness. And just a touch of actor to make the characters more than just numbers on a page. I might make a necromancer who uses plants in his reanimation as far as the flavour goes - So I'll avoid all fire spells and take something like Shatter for damage instead, but I'm not likely to eschew all direct damage spells forever (per the touch of actor component - He's from a bit of a backwater area, so he kind of talks like Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2). If I was going to do a "no direct damage spell" wizard, it'd have to be extremely carefully built so as to not be a detriment to my fellow party members. Actually, yeah, that optimizer bit really manifests itself in that I never completely dump Wisdom or Constitution either. In a standard array, they might be as low as a 10 on certain classes, but they never get the 8. Dex similarly rarely gets below a 10. Strength, Intelligence, and/or Charisma are all much easier to dump for certain classes.
LEEEEEROOOOOOY JJJJEENKIIINS! Awesome! I did actually read this ages ago, but with conflicting interests only recently bubbling to the surface in our group, I needed a reminder! Someone need to make a 40 question quiz which gives you an 8 pointed radar chart with your scores in these various stats. From 1-20, of course. And a player matching guide with suggestions on types you might match or clash with. Hold my Mercury Gatorade (yes, that is a thing now), I have to make a spreadsheet! Aaaand, I think I just revealed my nature as a problemsolver/optimizer multiclass. But I ready knew that. After all, I had a full 30 level progression plan ready for my 3.5-character before we hit lvl 8. But also an 8 page backstory, soooo who tf am I?!
If you gave me a 40 question quiz, with all questions asking me to give 1-20 answers about something, I'd ask you to explain the units, or decide it's too abstract to me, or run away screaming, or give semi-random (or just 10) answers to everything. Well, at least I know I'm not the optimizer. Probably. ;)
Ginny this is a great video. Would love a follow-up on how the different types of players might be able to learn to meet each others' needs and work together, particularly with some of the clashing types (for instance, I'm an Actor-Storyteller, with a spoonful of Optimiser and pinch of Problem-Solver, but some of my group have Socialiser pretty high in their stack... which makes sense since I beckoned them all to play with me to sate my hunger for roleplay and they merrily agreed). It's not ideal but sometimes your real life party, just happen to be folks of different player types, and you might still want to share the story with them. You've been really good at videos with tips on table dynamics in the past so I thought I'd pick your brain on this. Cheers!
Storyteller 🌞 Explorer ⬆️ Actor 🌙 - Great video! I actually always make my new players take a mini personality quiz for these player types before we have our session zero so I can help them build PCs they’ll enjoy playing 😂
@@StephaniePlaysGames I hate being that guy who says "oh my god, I have a video idea you should make," so I'm terribly sorry for what I'm about to say. But, as a fan of yours, I'd genuinely love to see you talk about that sometime. I have taught a lot of new players how to play, so I'm always looking for tips on how to better do that the next time I have to. I would also just love to hear what kind of success you have had with it, ways you might wanna improve it, etcetera, etcetera.
I played a game last night that had me saying "I need a drink" after an amount of in-game time of about 15 seconds. It was one of the most stressful 90 minutes of my life. That is what I want.
15 seconds, so t6his was either Cyberpunk, GURPS or shadowrun? asking since DnD is 6 second rounds so would get 12 or 18 but not 15. sorry, I'm a nerd. though 15 rounds of combat would be a lot.
@@starscream71288 oh, so like DC 20, nice. I am personally just a huge fan of the 1 second round, for the same reason I love the metric system and HP being well defined for what they are like meat points.
As I was watching I wasn't really feeling any of them, but last but not least the Socializer describes me perfectly. I like looking through the book for cool builds or chatting up an NPC but my main goal is to make my friends laugh and just have a good time.
At the beginning of every campaign I DM--and at with every group of new players I join--I always send out a survey asking players to rank which of these playstyles they most identify with. Does a good job helping players be aware of their preferences, and helps me better tailor the game to player preferences. Granted, because I'm big into Narrative, Optimizing, and Acting, those will sneak their way into my encounters anyways . . . xD
Yes! I love a session zero or player survey 🥰 That’s such a smart approach - getting everyone to think about their playstyle right from the start can make a world of difference, and it sounds like you’re giving players a fantastic experience.
This was a really good listen Ginny, thanks for the video! If I were to describe myself using these categories, I would say Im: 50% Storyteller 30% Explorer 20% Optimizer I love making "crunchy" mechanical character builds, but I do it surrounding my character concept. I don't care if my character is literally the strongest the game can offer, but I do want the mechanics on the sheet to reflect who my character is. And sometimes, the things on the sheet also contribute back to help me develop the roleplay side of the character even more. For example, I've got a Hexblade Warlock that due to backstory, I wanted her to dual weild whips. Whips only do 1d4 damage, so it isn't the strongest, but I made her built in a way that worked with RAW. No homebrew necessary to dualweild untraditional weapons, woo. But she's also high Charisma, low Strength; as a hexblade she gets to use that Charisma for almost anything. And with spells like armor of agathas, she ended up having to act as her party's front liner. I wrote her to be extremely terrified of death though, in her backstory. So she's a girl who is frail but can use her CHA instead of her STR or DEX to defend her friends against even her own fears? Boom. The mechanics helped me realize that she's extremely brave, because she has to be. And when everything just falls into place like that, it FUELS ME. 🤩
D&D was a huge part of finding my way as a human. It let me speed run meeting all sorts of players while playing all sorts of personalities. LARP, even more so. Also, I met the woman I would marry… whilst dressed as a Gargoyle.
At 16:05 we learn that Ginny Di deals 1D10 damage with her longword. That means that either : - She has a STR score of 10 and her sword isn't enchanted -She has a STR score lower than 10 and her sword's enchantment makes up for it. Can anny loremaster confirm wether or not her sword can cut through ghost or the like ? That way we would be ever closer to determine Ginny Di's STR stat
Best. Video. Ever. Seriously… I’ve been a follower for years… this is so important, so accessible. Really, really nicely done. Back in the late 1970s, nobody looked at what ‘type’ of player someone was… they used terms like ‘good’ and ‘bad’. ‘Murder hobos’ and ‘loot ninjas’ are terms still heavily over used. There is a right table for most players… but gaming with folks who you aren’t compatible with just sucks. Bravo… really good work.
Thank you so much! It’s amazing to hear that this resonated, especially from a long-time player. Having a framework for player types opens up so many new ways to build the right group for everyone. Really glad you enjoyed this one!”
I have always used the term Loot Goblin instead of Ninja, there is nothing stealthy about the way every enemy corpse gets stripped to their skivvies. I am a proud loot goblin and will always be so.
Hail, fellow grognard! 😄 Do you remember "Killer DM" and "Monty Haul"? (W-a-a-y back in the day, I had a wood plaque made of the former; whenever I put it on the table, my players knew that my patience was wearing thin...)
@@GinnyDi … For us ancient gamers… we learned this kind of thing slowly… and usually over the wreckage of relationships. That such fundamental things are now so clearly understood and easily described and spelled out to new gamers is wonderful. In the old days, people would have an awful experience - because of incompatibility - and walk away from gaming. What’s more, I think it almost certain that there are some friends who’ve been having a hard time who are going to see this… and have that much needed epiphany that they can be best friends… but not game together!
@@homebrewisthebestbrew5270 has Killer DM gone out of fashion? Have you noticed that gaming with kids young enough to be your grand kids is… weird? Gaming sensibilities are so different, now. No uber long campaigns, no hirelings, it’s… different.
This video actually helped me to narrow down my frustration when running or playing in certain groups. Another well done, professional and enjoyable video to watch. Thanks for making it!
What describes me from Greatest to Least .... 1 > Fighter 2 > Optimizer 3 > Explorer 4 > Actor 5 > Socializer 6 > Instigator 7 > Storyteller 8 > Problem Solver
I usually try to fit to what the party needs. Currently Im fulfilling the role of "actor instigator" after I managed to slip the role of forever DM. Most of my party doesn't do much roleplay and just wants to dungeon delve. My character gives the party agency to follow up on the Dm's plot hooks as the party attempts to save my character's boss. I like to have 1 or 2 moments where my character gets the spotlight (even if its just them getting beat up again) and I'm happy to fade into the background for the rest of the session.
I am definitely an explorer with heavy doses of problem solver and storyteller mixed in. I love nothing more than finding all the sidequests and all the lore bits while finding the cheekiest way past my opponents to my goals. I am absolutely addicted to Zelda puzzles like the shrines.
Thank you so much, Ginny! I've been wanting to get into DMing again, but have struggled in the past to properly communicate what kinds of games I enjoy running. As a player, I only stumbled into my perfect type of game once, honestly, and haven't dived back into DnD since I moved a few years ago. I think this will really help me for either of those things in the future.
I've still never heard someone mention my player typing, "Forever DM Unchained." A mix of all the player types with an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules and tropes who has built a character designed to tell the DM "no." Oh, they also have more notes about your game than you do within ten sessions. Great video, and as always your content is wonderful and makes the hobby better in a lasting way.
One of the things that's made me proud as a DM running my first game in over 15 years - I do have a Fighter, an Instigator (who prefaced that the party can veto if they're ruining everyone else's fun), an Optimizer (who wants to take stuff from sourcebooks I don't have but checks first), a Problem solver (the denmother herding kittens), and a fifth player along for the ride. 70 sessions in, it makes me so happy that I'm telling a story that's been making everyone want to continue.
I'm sharing this in my Discord servers. In the larger ones especially, this would be very useful to make new groups to play a particular game. I think I am a mix of many of these... I'll have to rewatch to decide! Or maybe I'll just ask my group what do they think of me, heh.
I’m an Actor and a Storyteller that absolutely loves to be an Instigator. Perfect example of these three would be my character Zeirk who is a chaotic kobold dumbass that has a surprisingly deep and dark backstory that if ignored will become an issue for not just the party but the realm as they know it. Who knows what pulls the kobolds strings? Zeirk definitely knows except when he suddenly can’t remember anything being wrong or off because he isn’t allowed to remember.
I love shenanigans in game! Goofing around with the party and pranks. I also like at least one combat encounter per session. I definitely go into the actor style.
We have an absolute optimizer in our group - Our last campaign was in Pathfinder 1E (basically D&D 3.75) and he would regularly roll Perception checks in the 70s.
4:58 my players spend half a session looking at a random painting in a tavern once... finally decided to have them find a secret passage on there so they'd let go😭💀
I'm definitely a Storyteller. I live for worldbuilding and finding out how my Character fits into the world, and I even choose my exact Subclass based on my Character's Background and Backstory.
This breakdown is super helpful and makes me realize I’m a mix of storyteller and optimizer. I do enjoy fine-tuning my characters to maximize their capabilities, but first and foremost I like figuring out why that would make sense for them narratively. Not just “my bard takes a level in warlock to get Eldritch Blast and Pact of the Blade,” more like “my bard takes a level in warlock because the devil came down to Phandalin; he was looking for a soul to steal”
As a DM I use these a lot! I think it’s really interesting that you have a session zero to find these out: for me, I think I know what types all of my players are, so I can know what things to give them they’ll enjoy the most. I doubt they themselves know that they are a certain type of player though 😂
Love that you know your players so well-it’s such an advantage for tailoring the game! For newly formed groups, though, a session zero is super helpful to get everyone on the same page and uncover those player types early on - especially for DMs that aren't as good at reading others.
Way more insightful than I was expecting! For the DM audience, this is an excellent description of, not just a list of, player archetypes. Including advice for wrangling said players.
I am a storyteller DM and I get sad when I have players that are not half as interested in storytelling as I. I am running a game for one player who is also a storyteller and it is glorious but I would love to see what a group of storytellers would do.
That sounds amazing-a whole table of storytellers would be so unique! When everyone’s invested in the narrative, it really takes the game to another level... though sometimes you just need someone to swing a sword 😂
THIS! Our group is half storytellers and half Fighters/Instigators….and our DM is also a storyteller. I love our group but I really do wonder what a full group of us would be like.
@@catdragon1313 I ran a group with an instigator who compromised. She'd say "You have ten minutes to finish making an attack plan. If you don't have a plan by then, I'm going to run in and throw of barrel of fish a them" And she did keep a barrel of pickled fish on hand.
This is so incredibly helpful! There really should be quizzes to figure out the kind of player you are.. Buying the Dungeon Master's Guide seems to really be worth it to have all this information in one place
"You will prove encounter balancing tools are nothing to a person witha hyperfixation and a reddit account" killed me I had to pause the video for several minutes. (Realistically I relate to a lot of these, while I think tools like this can help understand some mentalities, but it's still easy to go "yeah that's fun that's also me fr fr", like I don't usually aggressively optimise or plan out builds or specific multiclasses, but I do hyperfocus on rules and abilties to know what options I do have and how I can try to help the group make characters they will enjoy playing, much to the dismay of my DM as I told the barbarian and ranger about GWM and SS which both got doubled up by me playing a grave cleric with their channel divinity, but I also really like problem solving, acting, the wider story is always the biggest hook for me, and I do really like moment to moment fights because turn based rpgs are some of my favourite video games so getting to play that with a bunch of friends even if it means having less control than in a BG3 or an Octopath traveller or final fantasy or whatever, still really captures me, I only really clash with instigators or people who don't engage with enough good faith/ seriousness, there's going to be jokes and I am prone to referencing other things a lot but there's a time to know that you need to respect the story. This would get into an anecdote about a problem player in a campaign I ran but this comment is already long and rambly but tldr in the backhalf of my wddh campaign they were just taking the piss out of everything, constantly making dumb moves and I didn;t want to just shut the down or seem overly harsh so I ended up rolling with it and it made some moments lack a lot of punch they should have, Xanathar not disintegrating the guy that mocks him TWICE was probably the moment I should've seen how much of an impact it was having)
Last table I was at had two instigators. There was me, an instigator-actor, and Devin, the instigator-fighter. He and I were also min-maxxers, I more than him; he'd decide what's optimal to do as he went along, whereas I went into the game with a long-term build already in mind, one of which included a very specific magic item that I even centered the character's backstory around in order to improve my chances of finding it. I'm also a puzzle solver, but he is not; first puzzle we encountered, we solved it at the same speed, but where I figured the puzzle out, he instead brute-forced it, guess n' checking his way through it so fast that, had his fails not attracted a couple monsters, he would've gotten through it faster than me. But alas, most of the group were socializers, so sometimes, despite everyone showing up every time on time, we'd just not play the game, because they'd just sit around and chat for 5 or 7 hours.
Rest and find comfort where you can and as you need. Then, figure what you can do in your local community with the folks who are feeling like you do right now.
Oh I know what kind of D&D player I am. Eberron, with its mix of pulp fiction, noir, and high action. Basically, kind of D&D game I like is the same as the movies and television shows I like - The Matrix, John Wick, Guardians of the Galaxy, The X-Files and so on.
as a puertorican who has been stressed about matters within my country as well as outside of it... ginny di, you have saved my mind. being a mountain dweller comes with the downside of having yet to find a d&d group (have yet to try online sessions!) but this really narrowed down what i envision one day experiencing and what exchanges i would LOVE to have at a table! though... i am a theatre kid through and through, so maybe the answer was clearer than i ever wanted it to be. thank you, kindly, genuinely. your content really is an anchor. xx
i am mostly an explorer and an emersion nut, for me the thing i love the most(and am lacking the most as an eternal dm) is when the world reacts to me or acknowledges things i have done. for an example an npc offering me thanks for saving their relative in another town, or when a puzzle comes along that requires a specific set of skills only i have cause of the character built i chose, or the backstory i wrote.
"What do you actually want from a D&D game? Do you even know? Because if you don't, you're going to keep ending up in D&D games that aren't right for you." Thaaat's why I'm here. I don't really care about anything in life, and that's why everything is beautiful...... buuut makes it really hard to come up with a character when there's always a part of the mind that goes "but I also wanna play that, and I wanna play that". Doesn't help that I'm more interesting in seeing what my friends are doing, and I kinda just like to chill and vibe after doing work all day. Also, been doing D&D for almost 5 years now. In super strong burnout right now and taking a bit of a break. With all that rambling out of the way: Actor - I definitely find this very fun. I am with myself all day everyday, thus I find myself to be the most boring person since I'm used to myself. However, get a character that isn't me, and then I get to go wild with thinking of all the decisions, emotions, nuances, and all that other stuff that the character would do that I otherwise wouldn't have a real reason to think about so I get a different perspective on life (even if there's silly reasons). My favorite D&D group was done in VR, so people were a lot more energetic as they moved around doing silly poses to act out what they were doing in D&D while using an avatar that somewhat fits their character (one of these days i'll learn how to make avatars so I can just become my D&D characters). Anyways, This is one reason why I've been tempted to be a DM, because then I can swap very frequently, and sometimes think of multiple personalities as they interact with each other at the same time. Also I have a hard time getting into characters when they are getting swapped out constantly every session because the party keeps traveling because they want loot. My favorite D&D group was when I tried to be a chaotic neutral/evil Kobold as I wanted him to be the opposite of my previous lawful good paladin Dragonborn who was rather boring. That said, as time went on he was less chaotic, and I could never pull the evil bit off, and tried to make him neutral. Explorer - If D&D was a single player game, I would be an explorer 100% just because growing up with games I always loved stumbling upon secret stuff, glitches, among other things. Though this is just a kind of habit sort of thing, as I generally don't really care about what I find generally. Definitely don't want to hold up my friends with their exploring though. Fighter - Video games are like my go-to hobby for fun, so I don't quite care about the damage dealing or item looting in D&D. 'course, my group doesn't get too descriptive of their combat actions, and they're always looking for the next loot so the loot they already have isn't talked about much. Instigator - I wanna do things, but not enough to bother doing it because it's about even with doing nothing to see what other people will do. Yeah, definitely not an instigator Optimizer - Not really me. I just pick a character/story and then min/max to make the combat functional. That said, monk/artificer hybrid kinda stumped me because of how polar opposite they are. All other characters I've been able to make work reasonably well. Problem solver - My favorite D&D group had the entire campaign take place in a single small town so we had to figure out what all the people want, and what was causing problems in the town. It was really fun! Storyteller - I kinda wanna do this, but I'm just so indecisive about what story I want. It's just "yeah this story is alright/good, just as good as the other ones". Then it's hard when it comes to listening to other people's stories because I also get the "yeah that's nice/good!". Problem is there's never anything from myself or others that make me go "omg this is amazing, I absolutely love it and strongly want to do this kind of story!" Socializer - I mean that is why I started D&D because friends wanted me to try it and I've been interested in a while. Mainly there for my friends though. Though I would like to be able to get more invested in it in some way so there is something that stands out to other hobbies my friends share. Still trying to figure out how to get myself to want to do things within D&D as a player. I'll figure it out eventually so I stop wanting to just chill as my friends do things, then feel bad that I'm not doing anything because I dunno what my character really is because I don't really know what I want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To break down each piece of myself; Actor - If I had the budget, I'd love to dress up as my characters, but then I also rarely play characters that share a body shape with me. And by that I mean things like "within two feet of height" and "body parts in the same number and roughly the same shape". I love the concept of thinking about habits and motivations, but in practice I end up never getting a playable character if I try to do that (It already takes me days or weeks to come up with an idea I think I might enjoy). I absolutely love conversations with NPCs and party members, I can't get enough of that. I struggle to do any of this in combat (which I'll break down in optimizer) Explorer - All of this is super fantastic and I live for it... in video games. I don't want to blame DMs, but I know it never seems to live up to my goals as an explorer. There's often little to actually find. Fighter - Combat is too crunchy to get a narrative thrill out of it in any (heavy) rules-based roleplaying system like D&D. I'm too busy trying to make sure I'm not making a stupid mistake I would have seen had I thought about it. Instigator - I'd probably enjoy this, but too often failure = lack of fun. Not "things suck and now I have to dig my way out of defeat" but more of a "I lost at Monopoly and have to sit there for an hour or more doing nothing". When success means you get to have fun and failure means you're bored, you tend to avoid failure. Optimizer - I do this not because I enjoy it, but because it's quantitative. If the goal is to win a fight, then I'll learn the rules of combat like I'd read the Comprehensive Rules in a card game. This is also (partially) because DMs got annoyed with me "winning" combat by undermining the enemy's ability to initiate combat in the first place (which would also utterly annoy the Fighter, Instigator... and really just lots of players). Problem Solver - This is me to a tee. And not just roleplaying, this is how my mind approaches literally everything from gaining knowledge to conversation to what hobbies I enjoy to even mundane things like walking. I used to love finding ways to derail and undermine NPCs, but I've yet to find a DM that knows how to deal with that happening and most will try to just say "no, it doesn't work, I don't care how much it makes sense" because they don't want to get derailed. Storyteller - Again, very much me, but it clashes very hard with my lack of knowledge of how to right a backstory, come up with motivations that I like and make sense, etc. I legitimately don't understand how I can GM so easily when I struggle so hard with this as a player. Socializer - Nope. If I want to socialize, I'll socialize. If I want to play a game, I'll game. If I want to roleplay, I'm here to roleplay. One socializer at the table isn't a problem, but now that you've explained this group I think most roleplayers I know are socializers first and foremost, which makes it hard to do ANY of the above. The terrible irony, of course, is that I'm only roleplaying with those people because they are people I like to interact with and actively want to be around. Mind, if I did find a group that wasn't any socializers, maybe I'd love it enough to roleplay for the sake of roleplaying without any pretension of wanting to be around those people as anything other than roleplaying buds. Huh, now that I've written all of that and actually look at it, maybe that is the problem. I'm very much the odd one out with this. The one group I'm not is accidentally the multiple groups I'm around.
As a PC I’m def an Actor/ instigator but I DM often for first timers as well. It’s so hard helping players understand what type of character they want to be or what type of character they naturally are. This is super helpful
You absolute genius predicted me twice in attempting to predict your sword joke. Like when the Problem Solver came Up I was getting giddy because I was sure it would come now and then you pull the rug away. Unbelievable. btw. "Problem Solver" is a pretty good sword name
Thanks a lot for this video! I DMed my first oneshot recently (technically turned into a two-shot lol). I've been looking to start a campaign with my friends, but my friend's seemingly been recruiting more people to potentially with us. I, being an optimizer/actor, happened to read this section of the DMG, but you made me realize how valuable it could be to bring this up at session zero, so thank you!
I've been struggling a bit with providing what I felt was good feedback after sessions, learning I'm an Instigator is helping me give a better voice to what I do and don't want from a session, thank you.
Best thing about archetypes is you can be more than 1! I'm an actor, fighter, story teller. Which works well as I'm also the DM! One of my players is the explorer and boy does he keep me on my toes!
Optimizer, Fighter and Storyteller. I'm always here to cover up my groups short comings so they can enjoy the game as they want too. It's also fun challenge for me to create a character with a relevant background that can fulfill all the roles that rest of my group is not covering so it's a win-win for everyone I hope.
I'm a mix of storyteller and puzzle solver - I really enjoy the stories my DMs tell, and like the thinking exercises puzzles put me through. That said, a few narrative-relavent combats sprinkled in can make the stories all the more thrilling/satisfying
Thought I was primarily a problem solver, then I heard you explain story teller and that's literally me. I just can't find a good DM for this style of play. To me stories are less sandboxing with small random events / applying for a job at the docks and more about building to a larger plot! To me this helps play as an actor and get into character- but I can't act starting a family and working a 9-5, I do that IRL... What I can't necassirly do in real life is fight baddies and use magic. Hopefully I can eventually find a group that aligns with this.
Very thoughtful examination! I would describe myself as a split of Explorer and Storyteller. I come to roleplaying games to plunge myself into an alternate world of story and lore. When I watch a video where the creator is giving DM advice and they talk about, "nobody wants to start a campaign by reading your 32-page handout of world lore" that's the record-needle-scratch moment for me, because yes, yes, I absolutely would want that. My perfect dream of a DM is the one who's got a 600-page worldbuilding bible for their campaign and by the end of the year I've accrued a complete copy of the thing in handouts via all the research and examination my character has done. I want plots and stories and events to go on around me in a living world; if the party goes to place X and does Y, then NPC W will be carrying out scheme Z and we'll hear about it when we get back to the hub town and it'll affect our plans on whether we tackle Dungeon A or Sidequest B. Meanwhile, I honestly do not care if the party solves its problems via violence or nonviolent problem-solving, so long as the party addresses those problems as characters in a story. (In a video game as opposed to a TTRPG, I lean heavily towards Optimizer behavior because I think of the combat and challenges of the game as basically an obstacle between me and the story and lore, though sometimes I can get carried away in intensely complex game systems and treat the minutiae of optimization as if it _was_ lore.)
My group has 2 socializers and 2 optimizers. The optimizers built characters for the socializers and the socializers are really growing into a story teller and an actor respectively.
There are a few things I look for in any real tabletop system when I play. 1. Combat that encourages creative solutions to overwhelming odds. 2. A GM that includes some aspect of each character's backstory in the plot as you progress through the campaign (admittedly hard to do consistently, but when it happens I light up with joy). 3. Opportunities for any class to shine in their specific field(s) of expertise.
7:55 More like 30 to 50, leeeroy affected a lot of the older online community too at the time. Heck, it was the top meme on 4-chan and SA for months, both of which skewed quite a bit older back then.
Many of us are struggling right now and for those who need to ground themselves in something normal and lighthearted, I have decided to post this video as scheduled. Please be kind to each other (and yourselves) today. ❤
As a new DM your channel is my absolute favorite. It is must watch I have learned so much!
Thank you I really needed this rightbnow
all of the above 🥲
Thank you, Ginny
Thanks for the video, gives me another thign to watch while I ignore the world.
Maybe its time to start watching campaign 3 of critical role...
My favorite problem solver anecdote. Back in the '80s, I ran a competition module at a local con. One of the players asked if he could add some items to his pre-generated chacter -- specifically, "A pot of honey and a book of bad elvish poetry."
Sure. No problem.
Later in the adventure, when they were trying to sneak into a building unnoticed, he walks up to a locked door that had a small window. "I take out my honey," he tells me, "and smear it all over the glass. They I rip pages out of the poetry book and stick them all over the honey. Now I use the pommel of my dagger to carefully break the glass and, since it's stuck to the honeyed paper, it won't fall in and crash on the floor, alerting the guards... right?"
You're darn tootin', buddy. Have some luscious extra XPs for that bit of cleverness!
congrats to the player for knowing physics.
@@stm7810 Physics - they can be your friend or your enemy. Depends how you use them ^^
@@murphieslaw6932 Exactly, don't let physics use you, keep them as your ally. yes, the rules that govern our universe are nonbinary.
I appreciate that Leroy Jenkins joke.
I do not appreciate being called on my age.
I came here just to say exactly this!
It must be inconceivable for young people how some dude running into a dungeon managed to become one of the biggest memes of a previous generation. But here we are. Absolute generational gap.
I appreciated it but I'm in my twenties 😅
@@ruolbu As a barely gen z in denial, the generation after me is far more inconceivable to me than yours. Besides, gen α has Skibidi toilet, I think your guy running into a dungeon makes perfect sense
Edit: corrected generation
Hush. I'm too old to get the reference.
I'd suggest another type: Helper. The players who really like to play a cleric. The spellcasters whose favorite spell is Identify. The ones who prefer a support role in the group, using ranged weapons instead of melee weapons. The ones who collect obscure magic items that "might come in handy someday." They're quick to help the little girl find her lost puppy, without ever wondering if the little girl's adult vocabulary might be a tip-off that she's a polymorphed sorceress looking for a victim. They are the opposite of instigators, the best friend of fighters, and they don't have much use for explorers.
Could be lumped under Problem Solver, they pick the spell appropriate for the situation
I think that sounds a little like problem solver, just a specific subset. Maybe a bit of actor or storyteller too. (I don't think anyone is strictly one type, we're all blends of different preferences and our personality and preferences in other areas affect how those manifest.)
Ehh I think they’d help the explorer quite a bit with their utility. The notice them investigating and cast guidance.
I also heard this framed as the Optimizer! Particularly when they optimize their build to help others power up too.
It’s a great example of how each player type can be approached in unique ways, and how every type can collaborate with others effectively.
I think I might be partly one of these, at least when it comes to combat, from how much I've enjoyed playing a Bard and taking a more supportive role in fights. We have a lot of casters in the group, but other than the cleric, most of them loaded up on damage spells, and we have a barbarian, so I figured I would choose my character's spells with supporting them in mind. Faerie Fire, Silence and Counterspell for enemy spellcasters, Enhance Ability for when our super-squishy wizard needs that temp HP or we need to drag a massive corpse somewhere, Knock for locks, Feather Fall because I know none of them would have taken it and sometimes it comes in handy. It's definitely a different playstyle from my two past characters, but it's still fun and satisfying in its own way.
I'm the 8th secret type of player: The Creature....
It's not invited to your table, but it's there anyway. Out of the corner of your eye. Lurking.
I'm just imagining that one TikTok where someone talks about their cat coming up to their table and started rolling the dice while one player was away, so they just ran with it, said the druid is just in permanent wild shape, and pulled up a whole new chair for the player once they got back! XD
I'm also this type! I live for the moments when I can deal real life psychic damage to the GM and the players by describing the horrifying things my character does...to help out. I play a Modron artificer, and cure wounds involves bone saws, gigantic syringes full of glue, a staple gun, and screwing metal plates into your broken bones. For some reason the rest of the party goes running in terror when I ask if anyone requires medical attention.😂
@@RukaKikuchi cat takes the DM's chair and says you see a red dot run up the wall roll an intelligence check vs insanity
The Hat transcends types.
Homebrew rewards is the secret to getting optimizers to play well with others. Having actual powerful magic items and other rewards that interact in interesting and unexpected ways with their current build helps them stop obsessing over the next level up since the most optimal choices depend on the available items. It gets them excited about unique builds that only work because of the items they get.
Few things are as frustrating as a DM that never allows a party to have down time to work on side things, or a DM that never allows a party to get loot.
You clearly never had your DM accidentally drop a CR 8 encounter on your level 3 party.
Quick reminder that a PC of level X is CR X, and two creatures of CR X is a CR X+2 encounter.
So a party of 4 level 4 PC you created is not supposed to be a "fair" or "challenging" fight for your party of 4 level 3 players.
Just one of these level 4 PC is already a fair/challenging encounter
(Sorry I don't know the names of difficulties in english)
@hitihautriponel419 I'm not sure how that's relevant to my comment but that is not even remotely true. I've put a level 6 pc I built in front of 4 level 3 characters and they wiped the flour with the level 6 npc. Action economy.
@@johnnycoleman75 Fair, I've missed my point. I was reading through the comments so I just replied on yours to summarize my feelings. I was just telling that I loved being an optimizer when my DM would consistently mess up the CR of the encounters (and starve us of loot but that one was by design). The CR system is pretty bad anyway, you're right.
The actual best way to help optimizers is to set them apart and straight up tell them "Look, this encounter was about as hard as I expect the campaign to be, relative to the party's power level. Your PC is about the power level I expect you to be in 3-4 levels and I suspect the others will be lagging behind, or relying on you, too hard instead of developing their own PC. I would like us to either reduce your power progression or maybe even reduce your actual power a bit so you are around 1-2 levels ahead of everyone instead."
If you still have free time and he keeps telling you of his new breakthroughs, maybe even host a small campaign where he could put himself to the test. Do still tell him that you expect this one to be much smaller than usual, around 1-2 sessions long, that you will put less efforts into this one, and that if anyone else wants to join you might have to artifially bump them up through magical gear so they could live a bit of his power fantasy. (Tell them that this loot they are having is way above what they would usually get. Let them know that they should not expect to have such powerful PCs in an ordinary campaign.) (If you do not want your player to use this OP gear tell your players that this gear will "be treated with the respect you have to a fallen comrade" or something like that, but do tell them that you are doing this so this player can have fun through his knowledge of the game instead of OP gear. Speaking of experience, OP gear you don't deserve isn't too fun in the end. If it doesn't matter to you please go wild and give him those +5 weapons with 3 other enchants on top, the power fantasy with those is wild.)
In short, talk to them about it.
I found that when I stopped treating it as a night where "I run a game of D&D" to "we play a game of D&D" the games became much more enjoyable and the stories became much better.
(I also want to say I really like how you do your sponsor segments. They're always adorable and so well done.)
2:15 The effort you went through for that joke is insane 😂
I'm Problem Solver - Socializer, rising Leroy Jenkins
Ah yes, just the right amount of planning… with a healthy side of ‘why tf did you do that?!’ 😂
@@GinnyDi balance in all things, as is da way 🤣
@@GinnyDi Because there was a shiny thing and it JUST happened to be on a button...
MUAHAHAHA! I did exactly that last session. "Okay, so we need to do x, y, z, and *LEEEEROOOOOYYYYYY!!!!*"
@@GinnyDi yeah, there was this session where an archfey had us go through challenges. And one of them had an npc say you needed to anger him to get the key. My Fairy barbarian immediatelly stabbed him. Granted, she has Intelligence 8. I would however be more likely to go for talking with my School of Eloquence Tiefling Bard (mostly deception though). It depends on the character I'm playing
though to be fair, I prefer Chaotic Neutral
I think I saw myself as an Optimiser for way too long.
Optimising was just what my ADHD brain did when I couldn't play as much as I wanted to. And I've always prioritised what's fun and makes sense in the world for characters I actually play.
In reality at the table I'm more of a problem solver/storyteller.
The more I try to plan out of the game for what can happen in game, the less fun I have and that took me a LONG time to learn and a lot of frustration that cool things I wanted to do just didn't happen... for years of playing a character built for it.
These days I just give myself options when making a character but other than that, I let the game decide where things go, take notes, ask questions and I'm much more interested in the big picture and helping NPCs than any personal gain.
That said I've wanted glamoured armour for 30 years and I've never fucking had any and I'm still salty! At the end of Waterdeep Dragonheist we got our reward and went shopping, there was glamoured studded leather armour for sale. it would have cost 80% of the total party funds from a 2 years social game to buy it, for a campaign that was wrapping up. I'll be honest, my enjoyment of wrapping up that game died in that shop.
So maybe there is a little actor in there that wants a new fancy outfit on command while wearing armour, I just don't like the spotlitght.
I really relate to this (esp as someone with ADHD). Since starting a campaign with friends early this year, my -fixation- excitement for DnD has only grown, but (resolved) scheduling issues kept us playing once every 2-3 months up to now. This meant in the meantime, my enthusiasm has gone into stuff I suspect might be in line with what you described doing
Do you have any further advice for someone who might be spoiling their own fun?
"you gotta know your... Rising... Mercury Gatorade... Or whatever"
I feel so seen
Later in the video, "... not because I'm a Gemini and Mercury was on...rollerblades."
I am going to be making heavy use of "Mercury is in Gatorade" in future whenever someone starts talking drivel about horoscopes :D
Love the “Ginny reads the dms guide” content
Who knew there was so much good advice in there?!
Love this kind of video. So many people talk about practicing good communication, session zero, and to make sure your play group is all on the same page and wants the same things outta the game, but it's so rare to see people actually dive into it. It's rare to hear about _how_ to communicate well, _how_ to run a session zero, and detailing _how_ to get on the same page and figure out if you want the same things.
Thanks so much! You know I’m a big fan of session zero-it’s such a game-changer for building a group that clicks. I really want to help make it easier for anyone to dive into, especially if they’re new to the process!
@@GinnyDi Very much that yes, and you did it in a wonderful way.
A session zero shouldn't just be about trigger warnings and what people are comfortable with at the table, but also what they like. I'd hate to spend half a session managing a keep or ship for example. I'd rather spend that time moving the story along or finding out more about characters. (Other than in debt knowledge of their managing skills.)
I play DnD to have fun with my friends, and hopefully make/ experience a fun story while playing.
It's my first DnD campain and we're on session 4.
I am mainly a fighter and investigator/ explorer with a bit socializing in between when people are looking things up or taking small breaks. I'm here for the story, and try to give input.
I just dont feel comfortable being an actor/ storyteller yet, but im making progress and starting to use 3rd person to describe my actions and first person to ask questions to npcs.
Right now? I need a good distraction. Time to throw myself into DND prep and other stuff.
I have players asking if we can play tonight to take their mind off things, so I feel that.
Sometimes creating your own world is exactly the catharsis you need. Hope your prep is a helpful distraction ❤️
Good luck with that friend and never forget:
Even on the darkest night follows an inevitable sunrise.
I’m a forever DM, but as a player, I think I’m an actor/optimizer/storyteller/socializer. I love getting into character, telling a good story, and making my character powerful, but at the end of the day, I’m here to have a good time with my friends. Also, great job with the sword joke; you really had me shivering with antici…
The quality time with wonderful friends / family during in person games.
While I don't consider myself a "socializer" player, I love seeing my party regularly and spending quality time with them! 🥰 It's a really lovely bonus to a fun game.
I think this is more and more prominent for me as the years go by. It becomes so critical to have a regular occasion to see your friends once the structures of school and such fall away, and as people start having independent lives and even families. I'm 36 and deeply grateful for what games give me in this regard, and when I started RPGing at 13 it definitely wasn't on my mind.
Good that you use the sword two-handed when dealing with socializers (based on damage). But if they interrupted your character acting, add the +2 Rage bonus.
As someone who says they like a mix of combat and roleplay, it's quite funny that I'd be a mix of both storyteller and fighter.
That's so cool! I realized I'm a mix of actor and fighter
I'm wierdly not a fighter even if I'm well built for it, remove heads and move on.
I mean I did once fight a whole camp of bandits, but that was for roleplay, wanted to gift a dragon with a meal whilst protecting the village he saw as his horde, just a few quick rolls of stealth and attacks. I made it take as little play time as possible.
There's a narrative reason your rune maul does a ton of damage. ;)
Do I need to worry about myself if I feel like I’m every one of them? (Apart from the socializer, that is)
Anyway, I feel like it doesn’t get mentioned enough, but I really love your writing skills.
Your scripts are always on point: not a single second of the video is wasted, and every line delivers either in content or entertainment. Comedic times are on point, and everything works together really well.
Seriously, keep doing great things!
I want every player to have a subplot, a story arc, and growth. Changing the world around you is satisfying and emotionally investing. Grab hold of that plot!
I guess that makes me the storyteller. =)
That's the one thing I feel my dm doesn't do often enough. It makes it hard to write a character when it feels like most of it only matters to me. Have a game coming up this Sunday and I'm struggling to make something I know I'll enjoy.
@@ArcanoSilverwind My recommendation... take the GM aside and say you want to make it personal. Just run with the main plot as if its trauma from your character's backstory, and maybe the GM will respond... even if its just because someone appreciates their plot.
I love character arcs. Most of me playing dnd is just escapism and I love characters. I. Love. CHARACTERS!!!!!
Some of us are a mix of optimizer, fighter and storyteller, what does it make us? BIG DAMN HEROES.
Ain't we just.
This was really useful for me, I played D&D for the first time last week and felt like I maybe hadn't done a very good job because I wasn't great at the roleplay part (my character calls people "dude" a lot more often than they really should), but after watching this I realise I'm just a not that type of player and that's ok.
I did loot every dead body finding some important keys though, and asking the right question when the DM described a wall as being "mostly" hewn rock lead to us finding the secret passage that the other players were going to miss, so maybe I'm just more of an explorer type!
That sounds like a great first session! Not everyone needs to be heavy on roleplay to enjoy D&D, and it sounds like your instincts as an Explorer are spot-on.
Picking up on details and finding those hidden keys and secret passages is the kind of game-changing contribution every party needs!
i find myself to be an Actor/Storyteller type and still find myself throwing in modern slang where it shouldn't be there. improv is hard, man 😅
Hey, congrats on the first session. Not everyone has to sound like they've stepped out of lord of the rings and be deeply connected to their characters.
The only thing you _have_ to do is have fun...that's why Ginny carries a sword.
My main group right now is a Fighter (me), an Optimizer, and a Socializer. Works out pretty well, definitely a "minimal roleplay" table.
The other group I play with has an Actor, an Instigator, and a couple others I haven't quite pegged yet, but I suspect they may both be Storytellers. Lots more RP going on there. The problem is that the DM has set up an Exploration-heavy campaign, and I'm not sure anyone's really into it...
I think I’m an Actor-Storyteller-Optimizer, BUT I always make sure to optimize for the good of the group. Like, I love pulling off game-breaking combat combos, but ONLY when it involves another player (that way, I’m helping others feel cool, instead of just it being the Me Show). I also currently play a blaster-support for this reason, as, while she doesn’t get kills often, she’s always making everyone else more efficient, making her super impactful without stealing the spotlight.
I love your take on optimization! Pulling off big moves while making the whole team look awesome is next-level. That’s the kind of party member everyone loves to have around!
I consider myself a storyteller-optimizer, which for me means I want to optimize within the bounds of my character concept. Which concept is often weird and suboptimal itself.
Yeah if you enjoy the optimiser side you have to be careful in most groups not to overdo it and spoil the game for everyone. Helps if the DM at least has a splash of optimising in them too, but if you play to aid your party rather than be so dominatingly efficient you effectively do it all yourself then everyone can still have fun, even if you make things a bit too easy.
Though I also enjoy optimising concepts for the meme/fun value rather than just being the best at something obviously useful or going for the how can I make an effective build with awful stats (if your stats are worse than the less optimised player it brings you more inline naturally, while creating an additional fun challenge to build around) - my favourite so far at least is to dump Con rather hard, as that adds some real risk you won't survive even one hit especially at the lower levels, so you have to play smarter and lets play around with those entertaining but too MAD (multi-ability-dependent) build ideas you have had that really demand too many good stats.
I found another person just like me.
@@suedenim Yes, I'm like that too! I'm never optimising to deal the most damage, I just want to bring my weird character idea into the world. It's not my fault that idea requires three different multiclasses and tons of optimising to make the resulting combination playable!
One of my most recent characters was optimised with the goal of having the most possible pseudodragons. She wasn't that strong but she sure did have a lot of lil dragons.
I love your self deprecating humor, your counter jokes before they are thought, your energy, and the style you choose to change wording for each bullet point. Great quality video. I love them!
It's interesting how the different types of player described above correspond to different approaches in the psychology of learning and play. There is an important model of the psychology of Learning/play by honey and Mumford. Based on earlier work by kolb. they divide learning/play into four key parts. Activity, reflection, theorising, and testing. Everybody uses each of these steps however most people have a favourite place to start. Activists love to jump in and get things going, reflectors like to get their ducks in a row organising their actions before they act, theorizer's like to strategize 1st, testers like to poke it with a stick and see what happens.
That’s fascinating! The connections between player types and learning/play models really add another layer to how we approach D&D. The model makes so much sense here-‘activity’ as instigators, ‘reflection’ as storytellers, ‘theorising’ as problem solvers, and ‘testing’ as explorers. It’s amazing how D&D taps into these psychological preferences in such a natural way!
@@GinnyDi This can also help build an understanding of both party dynamics and player dynamics. Activists want to jump in and get going. Strategists want to hold back and think things through. the barbarian wades in before the battle master forms a plan. This creates tension between them. Reflectors like to get there ducks in a row before they act. Testers like to deliberately upset things to see what happens. the rouge was to start a fight to see what happens, the bard wants to control with charm and persuasion. This creates tension between them. Often (but not always) players like to explore different approaches through their characters e.g. players with highly strategic day jobs like cut loose with an activist barbarian in the evenings.
Now I´m trying to make a DND Player Alignment chart :D One Axis would be Acting vs Planning while the other axis would be Emotional vs Rational (basically how much you care about your characters personality). Instigator is acting emotinal, Actor is true emotional, Storyteller is planning Emotional, Problem solver is true planning, Explorer is true neutral, Fighter is true Acting, Rational Planning is Optimizer, True Rational is socialiser and everyone Acting Rational has stoped playing DnD when Looter Shooters were invented.
@anikanele7958 don't tell @pointyhatstudios you're making the alignment chart relevant again!
This sent me down an interesting rabbit hole and I appreciate it🫡
I was gonna skip the ad but it was very well made and actually drew me in, then i had ended up watching the whole thing before i even realized what was happening lmao. great job!
Here's where you're wrong! I think I'm a socialiser/storyteller and I watch your channel because I enjoy your vibe and original characters so that's definitely a 'socialiser' reason to watch you haha
Haha, fair point! I’m happy to stand corrected on this one 😊
I didn't hear myself in any of these until you got to Storyteller. Suddenly I was completely called out. How dare you so easily define me?!
Great video. Loving the content.
Love the Sword Joke running gag holding us in Anticipation 😂
You could cut the tension with a...
@@GinnyDi ...spoon?
@@sebastianevangelista4921 ...cutting word?
The true sword of Damocles
IT'S SUUUCH A GOOD JOKE OMGGG 😭😭
Oooh a truly excellent video as always!
I’m basically a Storyteller - Explorer with a Problem solver/ Actor Rising if you will.
Really fascinating how this influences perspectives on the game.
I’m one to get SUPER into World Building and Character Arcs for example.
Thx Ginny, I needed this
Happy to help! 💖 That simple question is such a smart way to get everyone on the same page. And yep, it’s all in the DMG-it's wild how much good stuff is tucked away in there!
"Seriously, they're gonna start any day now" -Ginny, taking aim straight through my soul, reading me for filth.
I think my balance is primarily storyteller and investigator, with large doses of explorer and problem solver, and just enough optimizer that I can't bring myself to completely disregard actual utility for total flavour appropriateness. And just a touch of actor to make the characters more than just numbers on a page.
I might make a necromancer who uses plants in his reanimation as far as the flavour goes - So I'll avoid all fire spells and take something like Shatter for damage instead, but I'm not likely to eschew all direct damage spells forever (per the touch of actor component - He's from a bit of a backwater area, so he kind of talks like Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2).
If I was going to do a "no direct damage spell" wizard, it'd have to be extremely carefully built so as to not be a detriment to my fellow party members.
Actually, yeah, that optimizer bit really manifests itself in that I never completely dump Wisdom or Constitution either. In a standard array, they might be as low as a 10 on certain classes, but they never get the 8. Dex similarly rarely gets below a 10. Strength, Intelligence, and/or Charisma are all much easier to dump for certain classes.
LEEEEEROOOOOOY JJJJEENKIIINS!
Awesome! I did actually read this ages ago, but with conflicting interests only recently bubbling to the surface in our group, I needed a reminder!
Someone need to make a 40 question quiz which gives you an 8 pointed radar chart with your scores in these various stats. From 1-20, of course.
And a player matching guide with suggestions on types you might match or clash with.
Hold my Mercury Gatorade (yes, that is a thing now), I have to make a spreadsheet!
Aaaand, I think I just revealed my nature as a problemsolver/optimizer multiclass. But I ready knew that. After all, I had a full 30 level progression plan ready for my 3.5-character before we hit lvl 8. But also an 8 page backstory, soooo who tf am I?!
Hold my Mercury Gatorade-I’m so ready for this spreadsheet! 😂
For real! I'm about to DM for the first time and would love to have a quiz I could send to my group.
You're someone who needs an editor, that's who!
If you gave me a 40 question quiz, with all questions asking me to give 1-20 answers about something, I'd ask you to explain the units, or decide it's too abstract to me, or run away screaming, or give semi-random (or just 10) answers to everything.
Well, at least I know I'm not the optimizer. Probably. ;)
Ginny this is a great video. Would love a follow-up on how the different types of players might be able to learn to meet each others' needs and work together, particularly with some of the clashing types (for instance, I'm an Actor-Storyteller, with a spoonful of Optimiser and pinch of Problem-Solver, but some of my group have Socialiser pretty high in their stack... which makes sense since I beckoned them all to play with me to sate my hunger for roleplay and they merrily agreed). It's not ideal but sometimes your real life party, just happen to be folks of different player types, and you might still want to share the story with them. You've been really good at videos with tips on table dynamics in the past so I thought I'd pick your brain on this. Cheers!
Storyteller 🌞 Explorer ⬆️ Actor 🌙 - Great video! I actually always make my new players take a mini personality quiz for these player types before we have our session zero so I can help them build PCs they’ll enjoy playing 😂
Love that! Such a fun idea. Have you written your own personality test or do you use an online one? 🥰
@@GinnyDi I wrote one out! I forgot that UA-cam doesn't like comments with links 😂but if you're interested I'm always more than happy to share!
@@StephaniePlaysGames I hate being that guy who says "oh my god, I have a video idea you should make," so I'm terribly sorry for what I'm about to say. But, as a fan of yours, I'd genuinely love to see you talk about that sometime. I have taught a lot of new players how to play, so I'm always looking for tips on how to better do that the next time I have to. I would also just love to hear what kind of success you have had with it, ways you might wanna improve it, etcetera, etcetera.
@StephaniePlaysGames I second Thomas! And I bet we're not alone!
It takes a certain level of commitment to your presentation to do a full orc body paint cosplay for a quick gag.
I respect it.
I played a game last night that had me saying "I need a drink" after an amount of in-game time of about 15 seconds. It was one of the most stressful 90 minutes of my life. That is what I want.
Ooh, sounds like we’ve got an Instigator sun with a Problem Solver rising! That's a thing, right?
Sounds like a spicy combat started by the instigator.
15 seconds, so t6his was either Cyberpunk, GURPS or shadowrun? asking since DnD is 6 second rounds so would get 12 or 18 but not 15. sorry, I'm a nerd.
though 15 rounds of combat would be a lot.
@stm7810 it was a system a friend of mine (the GM in this case) designed. 4 actions per round, 1.5 seconds per action.
@@starscream71288 oh, so like DC 20, nice.
I am personally just a huge fan of the 1 second round, for the same reason I love the metric system and HP being well defined for what they are like meat points.
As I was watching I wasn't really feeling any of them, but last but not least the Socializer describes me perfectly. I like looking through the book for cool builds or chatting up an NPC but my main goal is to make my friends laugh and just have a good time.
The sword joke was well worth the wait. Patience rewarded 😅
Paddington 2 is unironically my favorite movie and hearing you say its better than the Godfather is SO validating. ♥
A 99% on Rotten Tomatoes says everything! 👀
At the beginning of every campaign I DM--and at with every group of new players I join--I always send out a survey asking players to rank which of these playstyles they most identify with.
Does a good job helping players be aware of their preferences, and helps me better tailor the game to player preferences.
Granted, because I'm big into Narrative, Optimizing, and Acting, those will sneak their way into my encounters anyways . . . xD
Yes! I love a session zero or player survey 🥰 That’s such a smart approach - getting everyone to think about their playstyle right from the start can make a world of difference, and it sounds like you’re giving players a fantastic experience.
This was a really good listen Ginny, thanks for the video!
If I were to describe myself using these categories, I would say Im:
50% Storyteller
30% Explorer
20% Optimizer
I love making "crunchy" mechanical character builds, but I do it surrounding my character concept. I don't care if my character is literally the strongest the game can offer, but I do want the mechanics on the sheet to reflect who my character is. And sometimes, the things on the sheet also contribute back to help me develop the roleplay side of the character even more.
For example, I've got a Hexblade Warlock that due to backstory, I wanted her to dual weild whips. Whips only do 1d4 damage, so it isn't the strongest, but I made her built in a way that worked with RAW. No homebrew necessary to dualweild untraditional weapons, woo.
But she's also high Charisma, low Strength; as a hexblade she gets to use that Charisma for almost anything. And with spells like armor of agathas, she ended up having to act as her party's front liner. I wrote her to be extremely terrified of death though, in her backstory. So she's a girl who is frail but can use her CHA instead of her STR or DEX to defend her friends against even her own fears? Boom. The mechanics helped me realize that she's extremely brave, because she has to be.
And when everything just falls into place like that, it FUELS ME. 🤩
D&D was a huge part of finding my way as a human.
It let me speed run meeting all sorts of players while playing all sorts of personalities.
LARP, even more so.
Also, I met the woman I would marry… whilst dressed as a Gargoyle.
What's the saying? "If you can’t handle me at gargoyle, then you don’t deserve me at my best", right?
Bold of you to assume gargoyle isn't his best
Met my late first wife at the gaming table. Wifey #2 is just now learning the game (3.5/PF1); her idea, not mine.
At 16:05 we learn that Ginny Di deals 1D10 damage with her longword. That means that either :
- She has a STR score of 10 and her sword isn't enchanted
-She has a STR score lower than 10 and her sword's enchantment makes up for it.
Can anny loremaster confirm wether or not her sword can cut through ghost or the like ?
That way we would be ever closer to determine Ginny Di's STR stat
I'd cast Identify but I'm slightly out of range.
@@godofzombislightly?
@@umbriferus Only on a different continent with an ocean between us. 😄
She already said in a video from a few years back that str is her dump stat... just like con, dex, int and wis.
Best. Video. Ever.
Seriously… I’ve been a follower for years… this is so important, so accessible. Really, really nicely done.
Back in the late 1970s, nobody looked at what ‘type’ of player someone was… they used terms like ‘good’ and ‘bad’. ‘Murder hobos’ and ‘loot ninjas’ are terms still heavily over used. There is a right table for most players… but gaming with folks who you aren’t compatible with just sucks.
Bravo… really good work.
Thank you so much! It’s amazing to hear that this resonated, especially from a long-time player. Having a framework for player types opens up so many new ways to build the right group for everyone. Really glad you enjoyed this one!”
I have always used the term Loot Goblin instead of Ninja, there is nothing stealthy about the way every enemy corpse gets stripped to their skivvies. I am a proud loot goblin and will always be so.
Hail, fellow grognard! 😄 Do you remember "Killer DM" and "Monty Haul"? (W-a-a-y back in the day, I had a wood plaque made of the former; whenever I put it on the table, my players knew that my patience was wearing thin...)
@@GinnyDi … For us ancient gamers… we learned this kind of thing slowly… and usually over the wreckage of relationships. That such fundamental things are now so clearly understood and easily described and spelled out to new gamers is wonderful. In the old days, people would have an awful experience - because of incompatibility - and walk away from gaming.
What’s more, I think it almost certain that there are some friends who’ve been having a hard time who are going to see this… and have that much needed epiphany that they can be best friends… but not game together!
@@homebrewisthebestbrew5270 has Killer DM gone out of fashion?
Have you noticed that gaming with kids young enough to be your grand kids is… weird? Gaming sensibilities are so different, now. No uber long campaigns, no hirelings, it’s… different.
Talk about commitment to the bit. Full on costume and body make up for a 5 second gag. Bravo!
00:16 How did Ginny know that Citizen Kane and Boss Baby 2 were my two favorite movies??? I feel seen.
They really cover the whole spectrum of bossdom.
❤😂🎉
There are two wolves inside of you...
Both love Boss Baby 2 😂
This video actually helped me to narrow down my frustration when running or playing in certain groups. Another well done, professional and enjoyable video to watch. Thanks for making it!
Glad you enjoyed it! 😄
What describes me from Greatest to Least ....
1 > Fighter
2 > Optimizer
3 > Explorer
4 > Actor
5 > Socializer
6 > Instigator
7 > Storyteller
8 > Problem Solver
Oh! And thanks for a good video!
I usually try to fit to what the party needs. Currently Im fulfilling the role of "actor instigator" after I managed to slip the role of forever DM. Most of my party doesn't do much roleplay and just wants to dungeon delve. My character gives the party agency to follow up on the Dm's plot hooks as the party attempts to save my character's boss. I like to have 1 or 2 moments where my character gets the spotlight (even if its just them getting beat up again) and I'm happy to fade into the background for the rest of the session.
Ginny: Can you imagine dressing up as your D&D character?
Na'Krasha: I CHIMED IN-
but.... the door was already closed....
@@Slanse Look, you... 😂
Incredible!! If the Leroy Jenkins joke didn't age us... 😂
I am definitely an explorer with heavy doses of problem solver and storyteller mixed in. I love nothing more than finding all the sidequests and all the lore bits while finding the cheekiest way past my opponents to my goals. I am absolutely addicted to Zelda puzzles like the shrines.
Thank you so much, Ginny! I've been wanting to get into DMing again, but have struggled in the past to properly communicate what kinds of games I enjoy running. As a player, I only stumbled into my perfect type of game once, honestly, and haven't dived back into DnD since I moved a few years ago. I think this will really help me for either of those things in the future.
So glad it resonated - I think it takes all of us a little while to figure this stuff out!
I've still never heard someone mention my player typing, "Forever DM Unchained." A mix of all the player types with an encyclopedic knowledge of the rules and tropes who has built a character designed to tell the DM "no." Oh, they also have more notes about your game than you do within ten sessions.
Great video, and as always your content is wonderful and makes the hobby better in a lasting way.
I needed to see this. I'm trying to help my friends not spiral, but it is so goddamn hard. I think more than ever, I need your positivity. Thanks.
Chin up ❤️ One day at a time
@@GinnyDi Maybe you could attach some fundraisers to future videos to help mitigate the oncoming damage.
One of the things that's made me proud as a DM running my first game in over 15 years - I do have a Fighter, an Instigator (who prefaced that the party can veto if they're ruining everyone else's fun), an Optimizer (who wants to take stuff from sourcebooks I don't have but checks first), a Problem solver (the denmother herding kittens), and a fifth player along for the ride. 70 sessions in, it makes me so happy that I'm telling a story that's been making everyone want to continue.
I'm sharing this in my Discord servers. In the larger ones especially, this would be very useful to make new groups to play a particular game.
I think I am a mix of many of these... I'll have to rewatch to decide! Or maybe I'll just ask my group what do they think of me, heh.
I'm definitely a mix of Instigator and Storyteller - with most of my group being Actors and Explorers. It's a super fun blend.
This is a really good question i haven't thought of, so spoiled Ginny makes all these videos for us
I’m an Actor and a Storyteller that absolutely loves to be an Instigator. Perfect example of these three would be my character Zeirk who is a chaotic kobold dumbass that has a surprisingly deep and dark backstory that if ignored will become an issue for not just the party but the realm as they know it. Who knows what pulls the kobolds strings? Zeirk definitely knows except when he suddenly can’t remember anything being wrong or off because he isn’t allowed to remember.
I love shenanigans in game! Goofing around with the party and pranks. I also like at least one combat encounter per session. I definitely go into the actor style.
Fair enough--so long as everyone knows where the line is drawn. I've had entire sessions derail because certain individuals couldn't rein it in.
We have an absolute optimizer in our group - Our last campaign was in Pathfinder 1E (basically D&D 3.75) and he would regularly roll Perception checks in the 70s.
Rising mercury Gatorade for me😂
Was a very good joke
4:58 my players spend half a session looking at a random painting in a tavern once... finally decided to have them find a secret passage on there so they'd let go😭💀
I'm definitely a Storyteller. I live for worldbuilding and finding out how my Character fits into the world, and I even choose my exact Subclass based on my Character's Background and Backstory.
one of my favorite players was a socializer. bro just wanted to chill and hang out with the homies, and he always elevated the mood
So glad to finally see Paddington 2 getting the recognition it deserves
Honestly, cinema at its finest 🤌
@@GinnyDi 100%!
This breakdown is super helpful and makes me realize I’m a mix of storyteller and optimizer. I do enjoy fine-tuning my characters to maximize their capabilities, but first and foremost I like figuring out why that would make sense for them narratively. Not just “my bard takes a level in warlock to get Eldritch Blast and Pact of the Blade,” more like “my bard takes a level in warlock because the devil came down to Phandalin; he was looking for a soul to steal”
As a DM I use these a lot! I think it’s really interesting that you have a session zero to find these out: for me, I think I know what types all of my players are, so I can know what things to give them they’ll enjoy the most. I doubt they themselves know that they are a certain type of player though 😂
Love that you know your players so well-it’s such an advantage for tailoring the game! For newly formed groups, though, a session zero is super helpful to get everyone on the same page and uncover those player types early on - especially for DMs that aren't as good at reading others.
Way more insightful than I was expecting!
For the DM audience, this is an excellent description of, not just a list of, player archetypes. Including advice for wrangling said players.
I am a storyteller DM and I get sad when I have players that are not half as interested in storytelling as I. I am running a game for one player who is also a storyteller and it is glorious but I would love to see what a group of storytellers would do.
That sounds amazing-a whole table of storytellers would be so unique! When everyone’s invested in the narrative, it really takes the game to another level... though sometimes you just need someone to swing a sword 😂
THIS! Our group is half storytellers and half Fighters/Instigators….and our DM is also a storyteller. I love our group but I really do wonder what a full group of us would be like.
@@catdragon1313 I ran a group with an instigator who compromised. She'd say "You have ten minutes to finish making an attack plan. If you don't have a plan by then, I'm going to run in and throw of barrel of fish a them"
And she did keep a barrel of pickled fish on hand.
@ ok THAT is the sort of instigating I can get behind, even if being downwind would kill me 😄😂
This is so incredibly helpful! There really should be quizzes to figure out the kind of player you are..
Buying the Dungeon Master's Guide seems to really be worth it to have all this information in one place
"You will prove encounter balancing tools are nothing to a person witha hyperfixation and a reddit account" killed me I had to pause the video for several minutes.
(Realistically I relate to a lot of these, while I think tools like this can help understand some mentalities, but it's still easy to go "yeah that's fun that's also me fr fr", like I don't usually aggressively optimise or plan out builds or specific multiclasses, but I do hyperfocus on rules and abilties to know what options I do have and how I can try to help the group make characters they will enjoy playing, much to the dismay of my DM as I told the barbarian and ranger about GWM and SS which both got doubled up by me playing a grave cleric with their channel divinity, but I also really like problem solving, acting, the wider story is always the biggest hook for me, and I do really like moment to moment fights because turn based rpgs are some of my favourite video games so getting to play that with a bunch of friends even if it means having less control than in a BG3 or an Octopath traveller or final fantasy or whatever, still really captures me, I only really clash with instigators or people who don't engage with enough good faith/ seriousness, there's going to be jokes and I am prone to referencing other things a lot but there's a time to know that you need to respect the story. This would get into an anecdote about a problem player in a campaign I ran but this comment is already long and rambly but tldr in the backhalf of my wddh campaign they were just taking the piss out of everything, constantly making dumb moves and I didn;t want to just shut the down or seem overly harsh so I ended up rolling with it and it made some moments lack a lot of punch they should have, Xanathar not disintegrating the guy that mocks him TWICE was probably the moment I should've seen how much of an impact it was having)
Last table I was at had two instigators. There was me, an instigator-actor, and Devin, the instigator-fighter. He and I were also min-maxxers, I more than him; he'd decide what's optimal to do as he went along, whereas I went into the game with a long-term build already in mind, one of which included a very specific magic item that I even centered the character's backstory around in order to improve my chances of finding it. I'm also a puzzle solver, but he is not; first puzzle we encountered, we solved it at the same speed, but where I figured the puzzle out, he instead brute-forced it, guess n' checking his way through it so fast that, had his fails not attracted a couple monsters, he would've gotten through it faster than me. But alas, most of the group were socializers, so sometimes, despite everyone showing up every time on time, we'd just not play the game, because they'd just sit around and chat for 5 or 7 hours.
A little fairy with a southern accent is the best unexpected combo I've ever seen
I'm a mix of optimizer, fighter, and explorer. I play a rogue/artificier and goddamn if it's fun
Rest and find comfort where you can and as you need. Then, figure what you can do in your local community with the folks who are feeling like you do right now.
Oh I know what kind of D&D player I am. Eberron, with its mix of pulp fiction, noir, and high action. Basically, kind of D&D game I like is the same as the movies and television shows I like - The Matrix, John Wick, Guardians of the Galaxy, The X-Files and so on.
as a puertorican who has been stressed about matters within my country as well as outside of it... ginny di, you have saved my mind.
being a mountain dweller comes with the downside of having yet to find a d&d group (have yet to try online sessions!) but this really narrowed down what i envision one day experiencing and what exchanges i would LOVE to have at a table! though... i am a theatre kid through and through, so maybe the answer was clearer than i ever wanted it to be.
thank you, kindly, genuinely. your content really is an anchor. xx
Omfg….my table is one of each of this. No wonder why I feel like a world class juggler
i am mostly an explorer and an emersion nut, for me the thing i love the most(and am lacking the most as an eternal dm) is when the world reacts to me or acknowledges things i have done. for an example an npc offering me thanks for saving their relative in another town, or when a puzzle comes along that requires a specific set of skills only i have cause of the character built i chose, or the backstory i wrote.
"What do you actually want from a D&D game? Do you even know? Because if you don't, you're going to keep ending up in D&D games that aren't right for you."
Thaaat's why I'm here. I don't really care about anything in life, and that's why everything is beautiful...... buuut makes it really hard to come up with a character when there's always a part of the mind that goes "but I also wanna play that, and I wanna play that". Doesn't help that I'm more interesting in seeing what my friends are doing, and I kinda just like to chill and vibe after doing work all day. Also, been doing D&D for almost 5 years now. In super strong burnout right now and taking a bit of a break.
With all that rambling out of the way:
Actor - I definitely find this very fun. I am with myself all day everyday, thus I find myself to be the most boring person since I'm used to myself. However, get a character that isn't me, and then I get to go wild with thinking of all the decisions, emotions, nuances, and all that other stuff that the character would do that I otherwise wouldn't have a real reason to think about so I get a different perspective on life (even if there's silly reasons). My favorite D&D group was done in VR, so people were a lot more energetic as they moved around doing silly poses to act out what they were doing in D&D while using an avatar that somewhat fits their character (one of these days i'll learn how to make avatars so I can just become my D&D characters). Anyways, This is one reason why I've been tempted to be a DM, because then I can swap very frequently, and sometimes think of multiple personalities as they interact with each other at the same time. Also I have a hard time getting into characters when they are getting swapped out constantly every session because the party keeps traveling because they want loot.
My favorite D&D group was when I tried to be a chaotic neutral/evil Kobold as I wanted him to be the opposite of my previous lawful good paladin Dragonborn who was rather boring. That said, as time went on he was less chaotic, and I could never pull the evil bit off, and tried to make him neutral.
Explorer - If D&D was a single player game, I would be an explorer 100% just because growing up with games I always loved stumbling upon secret stuff, glitches, among other things. Though this is just a kind of habit sort of thing, as I generally don't really care about what I find generally. Definitely don't want to hold up my friends with their exploring though.
Fighter - Video games are like my go-to hobby for fun, so I don't quite care about the damage dealing or item looting in D&D. 'course, my group doesn't get too descriptive of their combat actions, and they're always looking for the next loot so the loot they already have isn't talked about much.
Instigator - I wanna do things, but not enough to bother doing it because it's about even with doing nothing to see what other people will do. Yeah, definitely not an instigator
Optimizer - Not really me. I just pick a character/story and then min/max to make the combat functional. That said, monk/artificer hybrid kinda stumped me because of how polar opposite they are. All other characters I've been able to make work reasonably well.
Problem solver - My favorite D&D group had the entire campaign take place in a single small town so we had to figure out what all the people want, and what was causing problems in the town. It was really fun!
Storyteller - I kinda wanna do this, but I'm just so indecisive about what story I want. It's just "yeah this story is alright/good, just as good as the other ones". Then it's hard when it comes to listening to other people's stories because I also get the "yeah that's nice/good!". Problem is there's never anything from myself or others that make me go "omg this is amazing, I absolutely love it and strongly want to do this kind of story!"
Socializer - I mean that is why I started D&D because friends wanted me to try it and I've been interested in a while. Mainly there for my friends though. Though I would like to be able to get more invested in it in some way so there is something that stands out to other hobbies my friends share.
Still trying to figure out how to get myself to want to do things within D&D as a player. I'll figure it out eventually so I stop wanting to just chill as my friends do things, then feel bad that I'm not doing anything because I dunno what my character really is because I don't really know what I want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bro, you gotta warn someone that the read more button is gonna lead to a short novel 😂
To break down each piece of myself;
Actor - If I had the budget, I'd love to dress up as my characters, but then I also rarely play characters that share a body shape with me. And by that I mean things like "within two feet of height" and "body parts in the same number and roughly the same shape". I love the concept of thinking about habits and motivations, but in practice I end up never getting a playable character if I try to do that (It already takes me days or weeks to come up with an idea I think I might enjoy). I absolutely love conversations with NPCs and party members, I can't get enough of that. I struggle to do any of this in combat (which I'll break down in optimizer)
Explorer - All of this is super fantastic and I live for it... in video games. I don't want to blame DMs, but I know it never seems to live up to my goals as an explorer. There's often little to actually find.
Fighter - Combat is too crunchy to get a narrative thrill out of it in any (heavy) rules-based roleplaying system like D&D. I'm too busy trying to make sure I'm not making a stupid mistake I would have seen had I thought about it.
Instigator - I'd probably enjoy this, but too often failure = lack of fun. Not "things suck and now I have to dig my way out of defeat" but more of a "I lost at Monopoly and have to sit there for an hour or more doing nothing". When success means you get to have fun and failure means you're bored, you tend to avoid failure.
Optimizer - I do this not because I enjoy it, but because it's quantitative. If the goal is to win a fight, then I'll learn the rules of combat like I'd read the Comprehensive Rules in a card game. This is also (partially) because DMs got annoyed with me "winning" combat by undermining the enemy's ability to initiate combat in the first place (which would also utterly annoy the Fighter, Instigator... and really just lots of players).
Problem Solver - This is me to a tee. And not just roleplaying, this is how my mind approaches literally everything from gaining knowledge to conversation to what hobbies I enjoy to even mundane things like walking. I used to love finding ways to derail and undermine NPCs, but I've yet to find a DM that knows how to deal with that happening and most will try to just say "no, it doesn't work, I don't care how much it makes sense" because they don't want to get derailed.
Storyteller - Again, very much me, but it clashes very hard with my lack of knowledge of how to right a backstory, come up with motivations that I like and make sense, etc. I legitimately don't understand how I can GM so easily when I struggle so hard with this as a player.
Socializer - Nope. If I want to socialize, I'll socialize. If I want to play a game, I'll game. If I want to roleplay, I'm here to roleplay. One socializer at the table isn't a problem, but now that you've explained this group I think most roleplayers I know are socializers first and foremost, which makes it hard to do ANY of the above. The terrible irony, of course, is that I'm only roleplaying with those people because they are people I like to interact with and actively want to be around. Mind, if I did find a group that wasn't any socializers, maybe I'd love it enough to roleplay for the sake of roleplaying without any pretension of wanting to be around those people as anything other than roleplaying buds.
Huh, now that I've written all of that and actually look at it, maybe that is the problem. I'm very much the odd one out with this. The one group I'm not is accidentally the multiple groups I'm around.
Sacrilege at 00:42
As a PC I’m def an Actor/ instigator but I DM often for first timers as well. It’s so hard helping players understand what type of character they want to be or what type of character they naturally are. This is super helpful
It's missing the "Joker". The guy who just keeps cracking up jokes or just having a silly character. That's a thing, right?
Socializer. Definitely falls under socializer.
That's me :)
You absolute genius predicted me twice in attempting to predict your sword joke. Like when the Problem Solver came Up I was getting giddy because I was sure it would come now and then you pull the rug away. Unbelievable.
btw. "Problem Solver" is a pretty good sword name
Thanks a lot for this video! I DMed my first oneshot recently (technically turned into a two-shot lol). I've been looking to start a campaign with my friends, but my friend's seemingly been recruiting more people to potentially with us.
I, being an optimizer/actor, happened to read this section of the DMG, but you made me realize how valuable it could be to bring this up at session zero, so thank you!
I've been struggling a bit with providing what I felt was good feedback after sessions, learning I'm an Instigator is helping me give a better voice to what I do and don't want from a session, thank you.
Best thing about archetypes is you can be more than 1!
I'm an actor, fighter, story teller. Which works well as I'm also the DM!
One of my players is the explorer and boy does he keep me on my toes!
Optimizer, Fighter and Storyteller. I'm always here to cover up my groups short comings so they can enjoy the game as they want too. It's also fun challenge for me to create a character with a relevant background that can fulfill all the roles that rest of my group is not covering so it's a win-win for everyone I hope.
I'm a mix of storyteller and puzzle solver - I really enjoy the stories my DMs tell, and like the thinking exercises puzzles put me through. That said, a few narrative-relavent combats sprinkled in can make the stories all the more thrilling/satisfying
Thought I was primarily a problem solver, then I heard you explain story teller and that's literally me. I just can't find a good DM for this style of play. To me stories are less sandboxing with small random events / applying for a job at the docks and more about building to a larger plot! To me this helps play as an actor and get into character- but I can't act starting a family and working a 9-5, I do that IRL... What I can't necassirly do in real life is fight baddies and use magic. Hopefully I can eventually find a group that aligns with this.
Very thoughtful examination! I would describe myself as a split of Explorer and Storyteller. I come to roleplaying games to plunge myself into an alternate world of story and lore. When I watch a video where the creator is giving DM advice and they talk about, "nobody wants to start a campaign by reading your 32-page handout of world lore" that's the record-needle-scratch moment for me, because yes, yes, I absolutely would want that. My perfect dream of a DM is the one who's got a 600-page worldbuilding bible for their campaign and by the end of the year I've accrued a complete copy of the thing in handouts via all the research and examination my character has done. I want plots and stories and events to go on around me in a living world; if the party goes to place X and does Y, then NPC W will be carrying out scheme Z and we'll hear about it when we get back to the hub town and it'll affect our plans on whether we tackle Dungeon A or Sidequest B. Meanwhile, I honestly do not care if the party solves its problems via violence or nonviolent problem-solving, so long as the party addresses those problems as characters in a story. (In a video game as opposed to a TTRPG, I lean heavily towards Optimizer behavior because I think of the combat and challenges of the game as basically an obstacle between me and the story and lore, though sometimes I can get carried away in intensely complex game systems and treat the minutiae of optimization as if it _was_ lore.)
My group has 2 socializers and 2 optimizers. The optimizers built characters for the socializers and the socializers are really growing into a story teller and an actor respectively.
There are a few things I look for in any real tabletop system when I play.
1. Combat that encourages creative solutions to overwhelming odds.
2. A GM that includes some aspect of each character's backstory in the plot as you progress through the campaign (admittedly hard to do consistently, but when it happens I light up with joy).
3. Opportunities for any class to shine in their specific field(s) of expertise.
It's always Combat vs Roleplay.
Me, the one person that remembers Exploration is also a pillar...
7:55 More like 30 to 50, leeeroy affected a lot of the older online community too at the time. Heck, it was the top meme on 4-chan and SA for months, both of which skewed quite a bit older back then.