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My wife and I played through Wolves of Langston as her birthday present (with a new set of dice) and it was amazing. I read everything aloud and did voices. Fantastic time, I couldn't talk the next day. I am absolutely looking forward to another.
We had a campaign that ran for about a year, year and a half. The DM went through a depressive episode, stopped replying to messages and deleted our discord server. I'm pretty sure he's an Atlas based on this video, and the weight of his own expectations and his depression coupled together to burn it all to the ground. If there's any of the unlikely fellows that see this, I miss you guys
Had something similair happen, dude just crashed in depression. Sucked a lot. Miss that game. Was a great DM, good players and just had a blast. Still looking for a group like that.
Had something similar happen in a Numenera campaign but at least they told everyone in advance that they were gonna delete the server so they could friend each other.
As a forever DM, and probably an Atlas DM too, that battles with depression, I think the best thing that can be done is that when the session ends make sure to do a wrap up. It's the Dimension 20 "Adventuring Party" concept that I've taken to heart to help heal my own. End the session and then check in on everyone in the group, just take a few minutes to unclench and get out of character. PCs can ask above the table questions and everyone can check in with each other on a real world level. It helps.
I did that with my first session as well and said that this format is always open for feedback. Being told I may fall into the Atlas DM also. I don't feel it's all on the DM for fun but there is a lot that does fall on DM. Looking forward to the second session.
An excellent suggestion. I have ADHD and it can cause some pretty severe depression, so I get your feelings on the matter. I think one of the healthiest habits we forever Atlas DMs can have is to talk with our players about our shortcomings and how they can help us going forward. When I started, I would just agonize about every mistake I made. Now I write down what I felt I could do better next time. I try to keep my eyes forward on how I can improve, and I talk with my players about how they are feeling about subjects I'm trying to improve on. They never fail to find words of encouragement and support. Thank you for sharing your experiences. You make spaces like these brighter. Keep up the good work, my fellow DM!
I am a perpetual idea DM, but terrible at execution of said ideas. I want to run too many games to be able to focus on a single game let alone a singular adventure for any length of time. I have ideas of what I would like to tell in a game aka the overarching plot and storyline. But at the same time I don't exactly like to railroad players because I hate railroad games (video or tabletop), but many of the players I know feel like I'm trying to rope a herd of toddlers. I do sometimes however have a DM NPC that operates as a helper to the players, mostly to offer up world information for a new game the players may have no information on. But once the players get a grasp of the world and it's specific rules that character becomes just a standard background NPC.
My games are limited to my brothers and very close friends, so we end up discussing our campaigns in pretty frank terms (three of us are the DMs for different games where the rest of us are players). I think a lot of DMs try to veil their games in secret, but we’ve all been pretty honest about, “Yo, I’ve setting up that plot twist for months now!!!” Or, “I absolutely panicked when you guys tried to do that.” Or “I kind of regret not doing this thing/I totally forgot to bring this thing up in the session.” I think it definitely helps the mood of a campaign when you don’t view the DM as some unapproachable God, and can just be honest about “Hey, I think that combo you did needs to be nerfed.” Or, “You’re right. I did kind of railroad you there a bit.”
As someone who has a bit of an Atlas DM mindset himself, its reassuring when my players thank me for running a session and say they enjoyed it. Hearing that they are enjoying the world they are exploring makes all the work and effort I put in worth it! I encourage players to make sure you do the same for your DM’s. They sacrifice their personal time to ensure that their players enjoy the game, so it can really go a long way to show them how much you appreciate their efforts! 🙂
You forgot about the 8th type: Me. Whenever I make you roll a dice I will also roll the same dice, and if we get the same number I will jump over the table and eat your dice.
I think the best way to handle an "Atlas" is as a player, give affirmation to the DMs ideas and or others, to be engaging themselves, to simply give the DM a compliment during and after games, slowly but surely building up that confidence. Because that's what the Atlas is afraid of being boring, being judged by the player, in silence, behind his back and so on, that is where the pressure comes from. Relieve that pressure by simply saying "nice game, i really liked...." is a hilariously simple thing that can go a long way for people that are anxious and afraid that their efforts are not appreciated.
as a bonified perfectionist, even constructive criticism would be enough for me, just some sign that my players are even thinking about my games after they're over.
@@ghostprogramming They are not talking about clear jerks. They are talking about Atlas DMs who are not jerks to their players. They are jerks to themselves.
As someone with atlas tendencies, just gimme specifics of whst you liked. It's incredibly common for players to go "great session, loved it" and then disappear into a void like that one "you're mine!" cat. Or spring on you that they suddenly can't play anymore. Or just straight up tell you "yeah, I'm not feeling it, cheers!". So what to do? Personally, give actual feedback when asked for it. What you loved AND what you weren't so hot on.
Players can definitely help the Atlas DM by just saying that they enjoy the game when they do, and putting forth both what they liked and disliked about the session in a constructive way.
Yeaaah, the worst part of being an atlas is the anxiety of always wondering if your table is enjoying your game and trusting yourself. As an atlas is better to take it easy, at the end of the day every player has a different perspective of the game and experience and it’s hard to please everyone. As long as everyone is enjoying the game, having fun and making having feedback from your players, your anxiety levels will go down when dming
You forgot the 8th type, my DM. He made me sick for days and he didnt even taste good Edit: never got top comment on a DnD Shorts video without him liking my comment too, oh bearded one why do you forsake me so
I absolutely LOVE that the entire time you're referring to the sadist, your are showing clips of Chevy Chase. I grew up watching him, love his "characters" and was SO disappointed to hear about what a schmuck he was IRL... So this made me smile.
@@BrunoMaricFromZagreb You're literally on the internet - maybe google him? But Chevy Chase is/was a comedian/actor for the last 40+ years. He was one of the original Saturday Night Live cast members (With Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray) He was the dad (Clark Griswald) in every Nat. Lampoon Vacation movie. One of the Three Amigos. Google image search perhaps?
He is one of the founding members of SNL. He went on to star in multiple movie comedies. If you've ever watched any of the National Lampoon Vacation movies, he played the father.@BrunoMaricFromZagreb
Highlighting that the Atlas exists and the natural cycles of games is in itself, very helpful. The first step in resolving a problem is recognising there's a problem after all. It helps to have the cause, the lifecycle identified rather than looking at the symptoms, the games that "were great, but we're done now" and falsely identify yourself, the DM as the cause.
As a DM, I always put a pseudo pc/npc with the group. It allows me to redirect the game if I need to and salvage a situation if it starts to go sideways. I'm also careful never to put the character in a leadership role. It allows me to guide the story without railroading the pcs. I've never had any complaints, and I have players that have been playing with me for over 30 years. My current group is 7 plus me.
I would frequently use temp characters to shore up party weaknesses or clue my players in to things they needed to look at, especially if the party was small and couldn't cover all specialties. I always tried to come up with a reason that a DMPC was either over-reliant on PC input ("what do I do, guys?") or else had some character quirk that forced PCs to roleplay to get what they wanted. Like, I would legit put masters of ennui into the group who would watch the whole party die unless someone promised them the right reward because the reason they were out with a bunch of low-level characters at their level was that they were a lazy asshole who didn't pull their weight without super motivation. It's not the NPCs job to do the work, so putting a quirk like that in lets the players feel like their actions are pushing the story, I thought
For the Atlas DM Esper the Bard has a great video on the subjects were he ranks the types of DMs. In his video he refers to them at the anxious DMs. His advice is for DMs to let go of the fear as he brings up DMs who are able to keep players for a long time tend to already be a cut among the rest. As someone who has a habit of being the Anxious/Atlas DM I can confirm that trying to let go of the anxiety and accept the fact that you have players that come regularly at all is a miracle. I am no were perfect in this and have a long way to go but acknowledging you are safe, you are loved, and your style is unique and you don’t need to depend on all the merchandise has helped wonders.
"Let go of the fear"... not exactly helpful advice. Anxious DMs need positive reinforcement from their players. They need to feel the excitement at the table, see players get into character and engage with their world, hear their players talk about their game with each other.
@ It’s a balance. Yes you need positive reinforcement from your players but at the same time you can’t just depend on it for security. You can ask for it to much and it could drain your players. You need to be able to not let your fear consume you to the point were you need positive reinforcement just to stay a float.
I use DMPCs quite commonly. It's when i don't have enough players to fill out a four person party. There's nothing wrong with it, in the least, as long as the DMPCs are support characters who don't make big decisions or lead the party
A good way to limit the necessary DMPC (if there's a crucial missing party role the adventure requires) is just to give them lower than average initiative. Not combat initiative, but initiative in general. Have them do fewer attacks, cast fewer spells, and so on (within reason.) Their job is to be sort of a safety blanket in case the adventure goes tits-up. Players like it when the DMPC comes in clutch to save a bad situation, when some bad rolls bring them close to some failure state.
I usually use DMPCs... If I try to not have one, my players adopt NPCs that they expect to fight along side them. Really never been a problem as long as their turn is streamlined, they are appropriately role played, and you don't have them steal the spotlight.
This. It's not hard to make a character that travels with the party, speaks when spoken too, occasionally has an idea when the party is hard stuck and has no ideas for how to progress, occasionally messes things up with a bad roll, and come in clutch when the players would prefer not to TPK (my group is okay get KO'd, but there are always some battles where it wouldn't make sense to wake up captured). As for possessing meta knowledge (a legitimate critique), I have a defined system for what the DMPC knows and what I know. I never allow the DMPC to know anything unless it makes sense for them to know it. Otherwise, they make guesses and I roll in front of my players. They're good about not abusing that they can see the roll and determine Hell, my players feel bad for their current DMPC because she's the tank. She takes the most beatings so they can do the cool stuff more easily
@@Xan4591 100% My DMPCs will usually always have an opinion when asked. But the players know better than to take it as anything more than an opinion from a fixed perspective.
@SuperMattMart I've had DMPCs give information I know is wrong, not out of spite, but because they rolled low. I make this roll openly so my players can see. It's meta-gamey, but it's so my players know it's not me screwing them over, it's the DMPC not knowing something well. I make sure the DMPC says it in a similar manner, that they're not sure if it is that way, but that's what they heard.
NGL, we have a DM who could be seen as the favouritist. Alternately "Why do we never get cool items?", "Because you always answer 'i dont know' when I ask what you want me to seed" is 100% of conversations about favouritism at our table too.
I've run into this too. Player: "Hey DM why is she getting all the story beats???" Me, the DM: I dunno, where's your fucking backstory writeup? Your character doesn't even have a last name. Player: :O
I feel like you’re still kind of responsible, since you should never start a campaign until all of your players have some semblance of a backstory, even if that means, “Player, I want your character’s backstory to be X. You okay with that?” Just as a general life skill, don’t punish someone for not doing something, until you point out they should do that thing, offer to help them, then they still don’t do it.
That bully one shattered my first group, I was the first DM, starting a gaming group from the ground up, a bit of an Atlus and too in love with random tables. Eventually I passed the torch to another who ran Strahd and became a bully DM. Let's just say they did something heinous to me, giving me PTSD around TTRPG's for +2 years. (If you have dark spiraling thoughts seek therapy, recovery on your own is extremely difficult.) Much thanks to my cousin who invited me to his dark heresy campaign, I had a blast and got over my remaining issues. Though the GM was definitely a favoritist with his wife and later with his friend. I'm now the primary DM for a new group with better people (who incidentally redeemed critical roll fans in my eyes). Felt like a bit of a martyr finishing the Dungeon of the mad mage campaign but soon my next campaign will start and I'll put all my lessons to work honing myself into a GREAT DM.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 i mean, did they get stress, post a traumatic event, disorderly? Then it's ptsd i belive As most thing, PTSD isn't binary, it's not a object or virus you either have or don't have, if that was how we defined all things, we would all have cancer, as cancer cell periodically pops up and get destroyed throughout your life without it affecting you I belive it's more of a spectrum, all PTSD isn't the same, some people can almost normaly live their life as long as they aren't triggered, some people can't even get through a day without horible distress I think it's fair to compare PTSD to Dementia, Dementia being a umbrela term for mental and cognitive degradation, but dementia isn't a disease in itself, but a disease (like Alzheimer) can cause dementia Not to mention that being diagnosed with anything doesn't give you the condition, by that logic, as long as you don't get diagnosed, you are immune to all disease and sicknesses, and even people who have killed themselves weren't depressed as long as they weren't diagnosed
@@emilstvring7577 You using words and phrases like "I believe," and "I think," just shows that you don't actually have any authority to talk about stuff like this. You're going in with a surface level of knowledge, and actign as if you have authority to define and explain what all of this is, and that's why you two shouldn't say that this is PTSD. If you two keep watering stuff down or making up false-definitions, you will only make it worse for people with serious cases. Also, I am not saying that getting diagnosed gives you the condition. The fact that you made up such a thing, or arrived to that conclusion, shows a lack of critical thinking skills and comprehension. I am saying that the diagnosis will let them know that they actually have it, as opposed to your armchair psychology making up definitions. You assign logic to me and my arguments when there is nothing to suggest that I think that way, and then you pretend my argument is inherently stupid. I will not be wasting my time with lunacy.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 Because only people who say things with 100% full confident is trustworthy, and anyone who even consider alternatives must be idiots And yes, i was using faulty logic to show faulty logic, as i did here, really, just rewriting what you wrote back to you
@emilstvring7577 1. That's not at all what I said. Give up on making strawmen, because it won't work. I said that you don't actually have any sort of knowledge about this, so you make up your own definitions that simply don't match or is not supported by what we know. You obviously don't know enough, because you wouldn't be saying stuff like "I think," and "I feel," or "I believe" if you did. 2. No, you aren't showing faulty logic. You're just working under faulty logic. You are rewriting my comments, but you're doing so by almost completely changing my arguments into something that is barely even remotely close to it, and you're doing that in order to make my arguments look worse and to make yours look better.
Had the same issue for years, playing for a year or so, then people stopped showing up and the campagin died. My character Tav`ash wich was my first char have still yet to finish a full campagin. I joined a new grp that plays once a week, so hopefully he will se the end of a story soon. Me and the DM even worked in the "never finishing" a campagin into my characters backstory, he alrdy had been planeshifted away on a whim by a powerful Hag, and now because he cant seem to join a campagin that ends he has become a multiverse character.
@@lixnix2018 I am tempted to try my ass on DM`ing, just to get more D&D in my life. As finding and starting a group havnt been to hard, its just that they always disband before finishing a campagin.
This is why I want to lock my friend is a basement abd force him to play DnD 😂 Joking aside, I think as fun as it is to have giant campaigns (time wise) it would be better to try and end it while people are still around over getting to the mid point with like 2 other people
I'm glad to actually see the backgrounds and justifications brought up instead of just painting every unfair/bad DM as being actively malicious. What I notice with the controlling types especially is how strictly written official adventures are and how dependent they are on certain events and offer almost nothing past the setpieces. It's these modules that make DMs just spin their wheels unless they actively interject and steer the party on the rails. DMPC stuff has been always weird to me. In most games where I ran I only played them because I was specifically requested to make a DMPC. In my current Pathfinder 1e campaign my DMPC is largely just a vehicle to allow my players to communicate their intent and decisions in-character. I feel for the last type of DM that common perception has been warped that game prep is a herculean task that requires tremendous amount of foresight and flowcharts and whatnot to be viable. You'd be amazed how much you can get by with just a general idea, an NPC motivation and rolling random monsters.
As a newbie dm who runs the official adventure, I wanted to add dmpc because the encounters are balanced for a 4 man party and we have only 3 players. -_- It also does not help that when you run into he pregen you wanna play it with everyone else since its not your love child you are proudly showing off, but someone elsese
Whew, thanks for calling me out as an Atlas. I have bought SO MANY resources to be a better DM, but every time I reflect on past games it was when I just let the creative juices flow naturally and use my own ideas. Players and I all enjoyed that more.
I've recently decided to DM for a group of coworker friends after a long hiatus. This was helpful in that I now have a mental checklist of behaviors to watch out for and avoid. Not that I'm worried, per se, but still good for self reflection. Thanks for always generating great content. (Also, I can't wait to put Ryoko's Guide to use! I'm SO excited!)
i needed this video more than i expected. i myself am an Atlas DM. i worry a lot about the game, i feel like i'm not giving enough despite giving everything in my power to make my games as interesting and fun as possible. i worry about balancing out the encounters so they're not too easy but not too dangerous also. and most importantly - i feel worse for not knowing all the mechanics by heart, which some of my players do. and i'm thankful for them because they can correct me if needed, but at the same time, i envy them because i'm studying the game a lot and still can't remember how everything works. and sometimes it takes over, but sometimes the sessions come out great, not only because of what i prepared but because of the players' engagement too. i know they enjoy it and it makes me really happy, but at the same time i still try hard to keep them enjoying the game, because there's still a lot of ideas i want to share with them. i know i should stop, i should let myself go a little and not worry about every little thing... but it's so goddamn hard not to do it.
7:21 not every DM that has a DMPC is the "usurper". I'm running a campaign right now where my players decided to hire a hireling who is just slightly above their level(they're level 4 he's a 5th level healer). He stands back smoking cigarettes and heals people. He takes no spotlight and only actually attacks enemies if the table is low(i run for a group of 3-10 players, so done nights he's active and some nights he's bored and sits out). It's not about having a character to play, it's about giving the players a safety net of their design.
Agreed. The best GM I've ever played for also often employs DM PCs. They just know not to make the npcs the main character, aren't afraid of said DM PC making mistakes, and all in all makes them engaging character to roleplay with. It also helps that there's often a small rotating cast of them so it's not the same npc all the time, and there are times where there's no dm pc with us at all. When I make a DM PC myself, it's less about being a player character and more having a consistent character around to RP with the party that I enjoy. I tend to go for a supporting roll NOT covered by anyone in the party and that doesn't take the spotlight. No bard in the party? Maybe the DM pc will be a bard and hand out bardic inspiration to players having back luck that particular session. No healers? Maybe a priestess who isn't much good in an direct fight but can supplement the party with healing to keep them going. The party are a bunch of chaotic gremlins with nary a positive INT or WIS modifier between them? Maybe they're a book smart person the party can fall back on for exposition and be the 'straight man' for the wackier characters to bounce off of etc. Now I don't doubt there are a good number of Usurper DMs out there. I haven't run into any myself but I mostly play with a group of close friends I'm lucky to have. But I've seen enough horror stories about them that I'm sure they're out there. But there are some GMs that use DM pcs quite well.
Agreed. Also, I have a very small group of players, and having started out as a player in that group, then stepping up to DM after we kicked out our bully and sadist DM, they didn't want to lose my character. I offered to not play a PC and just DM, but my players asked me to keep my PC. So I have a DMPC for roleplay and combat support (I may slightly fudge the rolls during combat to allow one of the pc's to kill the monster if my attack technically took it out as well.... let them take the glory) and never give an opinion when the players are deciding what to do next.
Dont forget the one that just changes the rules every 15 minutes, because there are homemade rules... but he didnt explained them. And once you see something happens and see the roll, you say.. oh, so its like that, ill do that. Then its not like that anymore. So you get confused and annoyed because everything you do may be easy or hard, and it has nothing to do with the action or the character, its just whatever the dm decides at that point.
Completely off topic from the video, but I recognized the location at 2:07 as the place I went bungee jumping while on vacation in New Zealand. It was my first time doing something like that and I had a blast. Lost my beanie to the river though...
I definitely used to be a Bully DM, though not to the extent I see on RPG horror stories. During the first campaign I ran, most of the group were first time players except for one, and none of us really knew each other that well. That one player that had more experience was a really big power gamer, and came with a really strong build that, as a new DM, I had a really hard time balancing and that was really frustrating. I definitely was harder on that player, generally didn't give loot that I knew would help their build, and tended to target them more often than other players - something which I justified at the time as me trying to keep things level but, again, I was just frustrated. As I became a better DM, the players became better players, and we got to know each other better outside of the game, that all improved, and me and that player are pretty good friends now. All this to say, there are a lot of reasons why a DM can become a bad DM, and I think we all start out with bad habits that we need to be introspective about and work on. And, y'know, talk to each other about. That player could have been a really good resource for me early on if I just bothered to voice what I was struggling with.
I bully the player which plays Isaac instead of listening to what's going on when I narrate the scene, and when I ask "what do you guys do" somehow does the worst move possible -_-
in my mind the atlas DM is "a victim of his own success". he sits down, uses his brain and imagination to craft something special. something he can hook into the story, or the world or a microcosm inside his world. and he links the PC's to those scenarios and historical events. and it is the same effect a crafter has: i want to show you that i made something cool. thats what anybody does who creates something. kids show you their first paintings, you make something from wood or an origami figure - excitement of what you made WANTS to the shared with friends, because shared joy, is joy doubled. so the reason as to why they to it - i feel that all too well^^
I am part of a campaign that has been going for 10 years. The dm created a 5e epic handbook up to lvl 50 so we could keep playing our favorite characters. He sometimes is the atlas but for the most part is great.
For favouritist and bully - it may be players' fault. If only one does good backstory, interesting and creative character or only one doesn't, than it's easy for dm to pick one character to favour or "bully" (as it's seen by player) and that's not fully a dm's fault. Of course, dm should track this, but not every time they can
Hey all! Ex-atlas/controller DM here. Ive definitely stolen stories from video games or dramatic storytelling and forced my players into outcomes i thought would be fun, as i did feel responsible for their enjoyment. I used to hate DMing because every expectation I had for the game broke every time I DMed. It was terrible. But that was high school, and Ive grown a lot in terms of how i think about this game. Funny because its part of the Atlas description, it took consuming DND content related to educating people on negative DM habits that made me realize what I was doing wrong. (CR and How to be a Great GM) I now DM without worrying about what my players think because I trust them and they trust me. I am okay with my players doing things that go against my plans because those are the best story moments. The most rewarding part of being a DM is both when you surprise your players and when they surprise you. It also helps that i learned some groups need to be railroaded just a little if they arent good at creating their own character motivations, its totally fine. I also stopped comparing myself to DMs like Mercer, it wasnt healthy and bad for everyone. I have my own style and my own playgroup, and if my players seem like theyre into the game a little, theyre likely enjoying it more than you think. Sometimes players need fo go on their phones or get distracted to actually feel like theyre apart of the game (dont punish neurodivergence) I had to learn all of this to get where i am at with my group today, and getting here just takes experience and repetition. If you want to change, you'll get there, and you'll have a lot of fun :)
Concern about player fun? Check Not even started DMing for real and already had a burnout period after 100h prep? Check Relentlessly consume DnD content and products? Check Spent money on DnD "improvements"? Check I'm aware that I'm anxious when it comes to other people's validation of my skills but also I want to give players on my table the experience that I would like to have as a player. Dnd became my favourite hobby 4 years ago and since then I've learned a lot about what I and my friends like as players. This will be my first time Dming and I'm 100% Atlas Gming for the most part. Hurts to get reality checked but it's for the best. Thanks Buddy!
I'm about to start a campaign for the very first time as a DM! I've been worrying whether I'm going to be a Controller, but then the Atlas got mentioned and oooh boiii... Spot on. Thank you so much for this insight!
A good idea is to prepare some basic modular encounters that you can easily insert when the party decides to go somewhere unplanned, and while the party is busy dealing with that you can try to seed some more plot threads that would encourage them to go in the direction you've prepared. Maybe the party stumbles into a spider cave and find a somewhat recent body clutching some vials of venom and on their body the PCs find a note describing a conspiracy to assassinate an important figure. One that just so happens to be involved in the actual storyline for the campaign.
Fix for the Atlas As a player: let them know if you are enjoying their game. Give them ideas, even if they aren't fully fleshed out, about what you want to do or what items or feats whatever you want As the dm: make the most perfect game possible, inevitably fail, play any using the very good game that you tried to make perfect, watch as you have fun without or even in spite of the plans you built. Expect the unexpected means to be ready for something you didn't account for to happen and is great advice for dnd like when players fall in love with the random npc you literally just made up
I'm definitly an Atlas DM. I didn't spent much money in DnD and other rpg (except the corebooks) but I watch a lot of DnD campaign online and I'm always scared that the group of friends with whom I DM think the story is boring or they lie when they say that they had fun 😅
When I first started as a DM, I used to be an "Atlas" DM, constantly stressed about whether my group was having fun. This pressure ended up causing the campaign and even some friendships to crash and burn. Looking back, the group I was with wasn’t really helping matters, and it’s actually a good thing that I’m no longer playing with them, though I still miss playing with a few of them. These days, I still care a lot about whether my players are having fun, but I don’t let it impact my games as much. I’ve accepted that everyone has different tastes and won’t all enjoy the same parts of the game equally-and, most importantly, that I’m supposed to have fun as well.
I've had a DM who was a combination of the Atlas, the Sadist, and the Favouritist, all rolled into one. It was not a fun time, but the only other option was to be the DM myself (nobody else "knew how") or leave, and I wanted to play the game for once rather than be a DM. I'm also an introvert who gets uncomfortable around people I don't know, so it's a bit difficult to find a playgroup where I'm not the DM. Tangent aside, it's probably no surprise that particular campaign died.
Thanks for this! I question myself, like we all do I think, if I am making an enjoyable experience. I can say today that I do not think I have any of these toxic traits as a DM. I am sure I make a ton of errors, but as a table, we all figure out how to work through any missteps by me or the players. To me, every game is a shared experience, not a me vs. them fight.
Interesting take on the argument: putting it simple, the toxic dms are almost always those that break or don't care about the "social contract", using the "big model" terminology, thus failing to establish the common and basic ground for a game to play, before even it can be considered fun or not.
I needed this video. I'm loosing my steam for D&D. And since this is the first D&D video I've watched in a while, I now see that the issue is the DM in the campaign we're playing. They're a Controller and Favoritist...but mostly a Controller. Super high DC's, massive enemy damage outputs, and creative ideas never work out. I'm *this close* to dropping out.
I probably fall into the category of an Atlas Dm, but one thing that helps me a lot is that my friends tell me about things they enjoyed most sessions, not necessarily every session but it's helped me realize not every session needs to be a ballpark grand slam.
What I see in live plays, podcasts and such, that make the DMs great is that they work so well with everyone else. I’m gonna use Avantris as an example- they rotate DMs depending on the campaign, there’s always players thanking the DM at the end of every session, and while the DM will make them reroll sometimes, they have a limited number of “twists” and won’t do it just to torture them.
As a bit of an Atlas, the best advice that has helped me, especially with the sort of imposter syndrome doubt of whether the players are having fun or not, is to do just the quick survey at the end of session: asking if anyone had anything they liked, things they didn't like, questions, comments, concerns, etc. Just keep it super casual and don't go in expecting everyone to speak up or have something to say. You'll start noticing that your players almost always only have good things to say, when they bring something up, even the things they didn't like are likely to complements (like hating an NPC, but really likeing how you played them sort of thing). It really helps to assuage those fears, at least for me.
I came alive when I started DM'ing, and I think I struggle with Atlas-dom, but as it was being explained I remembered something I say at every session 0. "Rule number Zero, the most important thing is that everyone at the table has fun. This is meant to be a collaborative story telling event, a hobby that helps us escape from the day to day. Rule number Zero point one, the DM is at the table. I'm here for my enjoyment as much as I am for yours."
I definitely have some Atlas DM in me so it's good to know from the comments there are a fair number of DMs like it. I am a longtime player and a group of my friends who fell in love with Baldur's Gate 3 really wanted to try tabletop D&D, as the only experienced player I took that role on for them so my inexperience definitely brings in a lot of Atlas qualities to my mental about it. Thankfully my players always thank me for running the session and for my work so it keeps me a little sane. I love running this world for them way more than i ever expected and I am happy for the experience regardless. Also when they go to our mutual friends and rave about the last session really puts a smile on my face too. Also, yes they are all now addicts like the rest of us, we are about 6 weeks into our start and they've all purchased many (and I mean many) sets of dice, dice trays, etc.
I guess I have a bit of Atlas tendencies, in the sense that I _do_ feel responsible for my players' happiness and enjoyment at my table. But to my credit, I am lazy enough to not over-prep, confident and capable enough to successfully "wing it" if necessary, and experienced enough to know that a happy table is not made by myself alone. Plus, I'm fortunate enough to have players who are responsible enough to come every week to play at my table, so I think it's only fair that I share in that responsibility to do my part. :D
I actually have a fun story that runs on a tangent to the Usurper...but this one has a wholesome twist. The DM set us up with a pretty simple and easy encounter as we just started at level 1. Buuuut everyone rolled badly and the enemies rolled way too many critical hits. Rather than call it a wash and start over, the DM instantly inserted a character who came and saved us at the last minute. But instead of taking him and running away with it, he instead just had him carry on with us as an observer and almost a mentor. We got into all sorts of trouble and the story was still very much player driven. We just at times had this badass bard with us that would lend us a hand, but was mostly just there to recount the tales of our adventures. We eventually parted ways with that character, but I will never forget that as an awesome way for the DM to insert one of their characters into the story and play along with us while still being a good DM and letting us, the players, have most of the agency.
Atlas DM is something I used to be. It is hard to break out of, cause it requires a lot of self awareness, but also to reassure yourself it's ok to not always do your best- we just grow and become better from our mistakes. It also requires your Players to do their part, help the DM, and ensure a fun time for each other. When everyone is in sync doing teamwork, the game WILL be great cause you guys all work it out to be great. It's a TEAM game, not just the DM's job but the DM must also respect everyone and themselves to do the best job possible.
A lot of the Atlas tendencies can be assuaged by playing with friends rather than strangers or "gaming friends". When I had those doubts as a DM knowing that one of my players was my good friend and he said hed never quit my game and was always super excited helped a lot.
Thank you for your insights. I watched because I wanted to better our games, and learned that I am an Atlas DM. I enjoy the time spent together, but thinkI need to expand to other games. I fear the money investment and inability to find others with a shared interest. However, I shouldn't let fear determine my actions. I appreciate all you do, and want to emphasize that you do a lot for many people both in and outside the D&D / TTRPG community. Once again, thank you.
I add friendly npcs and have them just meld into the background or I greatly truncate their turns and and only describe their actions when necessary; "The druid you guys befriended sees you guys have all been taking quite a bit of damage and steps forward to bless you all with a quick mass healing word." Stuff like that. This is a great video because it reminded me this is all a spectrum. Many dms do some of these things to some degrees without outright achieving toxicity I think, but if you do them too much or in too extreme a way that it becomes toxic.
For me, my atlas tendencies come from my perfectionism and my self-critical nature. I have the need to perfectly set up everything and also the demand on myself that everything I do must be the best possible. And in that it is hard not to think about everything a lot of times and not see problems in not enough planing from my side. What really helps me is a clear response. Player that are really wanting to see what happens after the last cliffhanger, players that are thanking for the session or just a good talk in the after-session. Or also players that tell me ideas they have for the campaign. Something that gives me the feeling I have reached at least most of my goals and the group did have fun.
With the Atlas DM, having open conversations with their table is key to recognizing that their falling into it and to be reassured that their creating fun.
I had a DM that was the favoritism type, allowed a toxic player (barbarian with main character syndrome) to have a unbalanced homebrew race, use unbalanced homebrew feats, open up their character story early that and got items without question. So that barbarian was able to do more AoE magic damage than the casters and whose melee dmg at level 7 could equal that of a ancient dragon. My artificer had a story beat that was just to pay for a mystery item that turned out to be a recipe list of potions that help melee classes. Thankfully the DM started a new game without the toxic player and is playing more fair.
This reminds me of the time when an acquaintance said he was an experienced DM and wanted to DM a simple 3.5e game for our group. Then he said we started in a tavern, it was a sandbox game, and he just watched a group of mostly new players sit there and roleplay eating food. And he kept rolling dice to figure out what to do. Like, when he just rolled dice and said "oh there are some bandits nearby..." and when we left to take care of the bandits, he rolled dice and said "oh theres a storm" so we couldn't leave....eventually he said he was bored and said everyone died.
So, fun story (and maybe important lesson) about playing while having meta knowledge: When my brother and I first played a ttrpg, namely a system our brother had come up with after playing several systems himself with friends, I quickly realized that the adventure we were playing, a murder mystery plot, was the exact same thing the DM had told me about a year prior, before I had mentioned that I was interested in this. In other words, I had the full story, including character relations, and also the culprit. I decided to play a more passive role, letting my brother take the lead and helping him with things he wanted to do, while also occasionally pointing out things that would definitely get someone killed. I did let him use his war hammer to knock on someone's door, though (my character made a new one for the guy). We did solve the case in the end, and the culprit was executed, and our DM didn't even realize his mistake until I told him afterwards. He was pretty happy that I kept to myself, though.
I think DM PCs are fine as long as you keep them simple - one major backstory event, and one main ability. This often means keeping them as a low-level fighter or something like that. Swing a sword and leave it at that on their turn. That way if the party is stuck on something or wants information, you’ve got a character to sort of guide them, but when they’re not needed they can safely fade into the background as just an extra sword to help with bigger enemies. DM PCs can also help involve another PC’s backstory and stuff like that at tables where not everyone has backstories and/or someone’s been trying to hint at one but others aren’t picking up on it. It gives you the opportunity to ask characters questions that haven’t been asked yet, etc.
Sometimes I do what the usurper does and try to add a character to the party to help them. Difference is when I do it it's a Skyrim follower who just babbles on about getting their ass kicked and not really doing anything unless prompted by the other players. Typically happens when the party lacks a healer or utility caster
Exactly what i do aswell. The character will only be support, have skills they lack and interact with them only to bond, but never makes ANY decision for the players except in one single case: If they decided to go after the npc backstory and it comes to a moment of "revenge vs mercy" and at that moment they all decide to leave it up to the npc.
@0lloc0 That, or we're in combat. I don't give them their own actions or anything but if a mf gets within melee range for a reaction, npc will smack em with whatever's in hand for minimal damage. And with the given parameters of having the npc in the first place, npc is in the back of the party anyway (unless told to do something else) so atp there's really no avoiding doing it bc the party is either preoccupied or almost completely wiped. I won't do it if it'll kill the enemy though unless I ask the players ahead of time "hey this is what bro will do, are you cool with em getting the kill if it happens?" and they're cool with it
I'm the usurper but because party needed cleric after one person left but NOBODY wanted to play cleric. Also i made my character kinda underpowered and nearly all rolls/checks left mostly to other players.
I ran a homebrew campaign for several years for a group of very close friends and I never realized I was absolutely an Atlas DM. I listened to a lot of Critical Role, i stressed over plot points and set pieces to try and make sure my players were going to have the best session every session. I even taught myself rudimentary fluid dynamics calculations for a session. When my brother, who was in my playgroup, complained to me about the things he didn't like about my DM style it caused me to burn out so hard I swore off being a DM and still haven't given it another attempt.
It’s funny cause we played a campaign where one of the players WAS the main character. But the play group actually enjoyed it and we all just rolled with it and it ended up being really fun
In the early 90s, I encountered a toxic DM. My partner at that time and I had seen an advert at a local game store for a game and went to join it. We were surprised a couple other players were people we knew from a different hobby but hadn't, before, spent much time with them. So the game and the DM. In the beginning of the campaign, he did a few lightly toxic things but because we all wanted to play, we ignored them or played around them. After a few months, when we were more invested in our characters and getting close to the end of the big dungeon we had been playing through (my memories are a little vague, I -think- it was one big dungeon or it all blurred into one and I'm not sure how many weeks/months but I think close to a year or a little more than a year), he started to show all his toxicity. While we had all had characters who had died along the way in not really unexplainable or horendous ways and had to roll new characters to continue, the characters in the final stage were those we had each had for several weeks. One by one, in what ended up as the last session, he killed off our characters. A couple of us players were in the kitchen, one 'dead' and the other just recharging drink/food, when we mentioned the extra deadliness of the session. The DM's wife, who wasn't playing, laughed and told us her husband had always been a player-killer DM where they lived before and was one reason he would advertise at game stores for players ('cause no one would play with him on a second campaign). I don't remember who survived and who didn't, but all the players resolved to never play with him again and moved to playing at the home of one of the others instead. We had a few rotating GMs after that and occasionally we get into a conversation remarking on the toxicity of that previous DM. Months after we left that game, I saw an advert at the same game store from that DM. Someone else had scribbled a cautionary note in the margin that he was a player-killer. I didn't recognize the handwriting but did concur with the sentiment.
Holy Hell... I'm the atlas dm. I always kinda knew this, but this is 100% me. A player recently left my paid campaign just as it was starting and all I could think was "Yea, makes sense, im probably not good enough for them to see my services as worth it. Bummer".
I have quit a group due to a railroading and controlling DM before. Making modifications to rules to unnecessarily nerf a legitimate and not over powered build from the beginning. Providing inadequate plot hooks with obvious traps and absolutely refusing to allow me to say my highly intelligent character who had a high perception and investigation roll refused to step into the obvious traps. He even got mad when I nat 20d my con save to get a permanent plot related curse because he couldn't argue that I should be cursed anyway (since it would be a clear reveal the roll was meant to be failed). I missed a session and another player controlled my character, rolled well on Sleep to knockout and de-escalate a fight (which is what I would have done) and he just said Nope doesn't work... No explanation and not within RAW due to the HP of the single target
I’m guilty of being an Atlas DM If there is any advice I would give, just remember: Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good. Campaigns will always derail or deviate what you had planned, but at the end of the day, if the players are happy then all is well. You did a great job.
I just escaped a toxic DM. Even my real life friend who also played in that group noticed a trend where my character kept getting singled out for being paralyzed, silenced, or controlled by enemies in parts of the story where the enemy has to show us that we're not strong enough to fight them. That, among other things, was enough to cause me to quit that group.
I use dmpcs because I have a party of 2, but it's usually in the form of a character that offered to help. It's not just one character forced into the party
I also often (not always) have a dmpc, but it's usually at the request of my group. People have their favourite classes and playstyles, and want gaps in the line up filled. So they get an NPC, but with sheet and everything, and me as the DM to roll for that character and level them. Its usually just a utility character, healbot or extra tank. I tried reducing fights, so people did not have to worry about heals and "front line" so much, but they got bored and wanted "more action back in their games". It really does not help that the average D20 roll at that table is a 5, I wish I was kidding.
I run a DMPC when I have small groups to fill in role gaps (usually a tank), but I also primarily DM for kids and my family and specifically build the character to not be a skill monkey, face, or anything that could outshine the actually PCs. I usually don’t even “control” the character. I just ask the party what they want the character to do in their turn. I’d have them roll for everything as well, but I can resolve rolls faster still (playing with kids and I know the rules and results at a glance). I’ve never felt like I stole the show or even impacted the story except to improve party survivability. It also should be noted that in the kids campaign, they’re a Druid and Ranger, and in the family one they’re a Ranger and ranged Warlock so we’re talking fairly squishy ranged characters. …doing a purely ranged fight would be boring and making them deal with melee all the time would ruin the fun of the game for them. I do everything I can to make them feel like their PCs are the big damn heroes.
In my opinion, a true DMPC is a character that the DM is attached to in the same way that a player is attached to their PC, not just an NPC that has joined the party. In sort of the same situation as you, I am doing a solo campaign for my partner where she'll need a full party, so I'm adding "companions." Sort of BG3 style where she can select who's in the party. I'll give them all personalities, but their motivation in this case are just in line with her PC's motivations, so no real companion quests or anything. I'll have them comment on stuff and respond to her questions, usually by having them all give different opinions so I'm not pushing her in a direction. Finally, she controls all of their combat actions. I don't think any of that qualifies as DMPC. In another scenario, my group wanted a rigger "DMPC" for their Shadowrun crew. I acquiesced, but really the character has become an NPC getaway driver so I can ferry them around. I don't have the character do anything that might assist with the party's decision making, though I am not above using the character to impart knowledge that may help the team figure something out.
With the whole 'make your bad guy look evil' schtick, I try to either telegraph it in a 'this is the result of the parties' actions' way (one party saw the witch that was after them flying toward an inn which had sheltered them and didn't turn back), or put it in a scenario where the party is free to intervene but doing so carries a major risk (like a public execution for that pirate they sailed with). It's also worth noting that the infamous tree scene from critical role used random villagers, not NPCs the party knew.
i remember the few times i played with a different group with my then gf because i was nervous my super edgelord group would turn her off, the DM gave her such obvious favouritism and was a bit creepy towards her in game having bards at every tavern we went fawn over her so i started getting frustrated holding my temper not to call the the guy out for this bs and after a few sessions she didn't want to play DnD at all... i think the edgelords would have been a better option because at least i know the boys well
I think you can help Atlas DMs by taking as much from their shoulders as you can: Do the Scheduling for the next session, do a session summary, give them suggestions for things or plot hooks your character might be interested and in general show that you´re invested in their game. If they arent also controllers, you might even be allowed to take over some minor gameplay role (like managing the bastion) or run a game with them as the player.
Honestly im playing a campaign right now and my DM has several DMPC's in the party. Now at first this might sound like a bad thing, but honestly its one of the best things about the campaign. He runs them instead like Bioware companion NPC's, they all have their own character sheets, and their own motivations like a PC but they are honestly a joy to be around. Basically a DMPC can work if you actually understand how to run a game properly
The only DMPC I have ever used was a Kenku Rogue. They were there for 2 reasons. The party was only 3 players running through a tough module, and they wanted a rogue. I made them a Kenku, so that the only time they ever spoke was through mimicry, to aid in pushing points the players made home, or adding some funny moments. They never took the spotlight, their turns were pre-rolled in combat so as to not slow things down. Overall. I think his inclusion went over very well.
I think we all felt called out when number 7 came around. Remember, its jist a game. Your players have more fun than you think, and being open in communication with them will help set worries aside. Focus on your dming, enjoy your part to play, roll some dice.
I definitely feel like I’m an Atlas DM. I’m a first-time DM, and I haven’t actually played much DND because every time I’ve tried, I end up at one kind of toxic table or another. So because I like storytelling, I took up the DM mantle by choice, and, tbh, I’d be happy if I never got to be a player character ever again! But, because I don’t have experience with what a good DND table looks like, I’m constantly agonizing quietly if my party is having a good time and I’m trying my best to make sure my players feel welcome at my table and their voices are heard. I did recently get a lot of positive feedback because I’m trying to work with a few of my quieter players to develop their characters more, and give those characters a space to shine. I also had a player come to me excited with an idea for his character, saying he’s finally figured out what he wants to do and that everything is coming together for him, and that made me feel really good about the game so far. (I even got to make my own warlock patron for the first time!) I’m a perfectionist, and I think I always will be. I know there’s stuff I can do better (I’m not really great with maps lol), but my players seem to be enjoying themselves and looking forward to each week’s game. I’m trying to tell myself that’s the most important thing, and I’m doing my job if they like playing each week.
So I do want to make a small case for DMPCs as they aren’t always bad. To expand, I run a Star Wars 5e campaign for my two best friends. Their characters are brothers with one being a Jedi and the other being force sensitive, but having never been found by the order. Both of them play their characters as very dense and goofy with very narrow sets of skills. So I gave a story reason for them to have a group of republic troopers tagging along with them on their missions (it’s old republic era btw) their tag along a function as a bit extra crowd control and to plug some skill holes they have so they aren’t forced to brute force their way through everything. That being said, the players have the final word on any plans and tactics. They run the show, and I get to have an in game way to explain something they should know ic but don’t oc, and have the fun of rolling a couple dice alongside my friends. I’ve found that the balance is having a fully fleshed out character, but never letting them take limelight away from players, and keep them under strength by comparison. Players are level 10? Welp guess this dmpc is gonna sit at 7 at the highest. It’s all just a balancing act
There is one type of DMPC that's acceptable: When they're actually just a support NPC because there's not enough players, but you don't have the time, or the players are vehemently opposed to downgrading the printed modules. That or I'm just in a really unique situation DMing for my wife who wants to experience the Adventure Paths without me toning it down. So I usually wind up running gestalt & build a support NPC that covers whatever aspects of the game her character doesn't lol.
7:32 I play with my wife and each of us has 2 characters under control. The solution for the DMPCs is that they are there just to role-play and help out in combat, or sometimes to convey what DM wants to tell. They never participate in solving riddles, or take away attention, and it works perfectly.
For Atlas types, such as myself, my best advice is to hard limit your prep time. Order your prep from most important to least important and then force yourself to stop when you hit the reasonable time limit. It has done wonders for my potential burnout. Remind yourself that if you're players aren't having fun with that level of prep, there is nothing reasonable you can do and maybe it ultimately isn't a good fit. I also try to pick one player for each session where I prep something special for them: a dream, a special loot item, some key interaction with a NPC, or interesting observation they might gain by their background. This again limits prep, but allows special moments fairly consistently around the table. Often these things don't land, but then I have a nice store of elements I can weave in when appropriate, later.
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My wife and I played through Wolves of Langston as her birthday present (with a new set of dice) and it was amazing. I read everything aloud and did voices. Fantastic time, I couldn't talk the next day. I am absolutely looking forward to another.
I love playing with myself
We had a campaign that ran for about a year, year and a half. The DM went through a depressive episode, stopped replying to messages and deleted our discord server. I'm pretty sure he's an Atlas based on this video, and the weight of his own expectations and his depression coupled together to burn it all to the ground.
If there's any of the unlikely fellows that see this, I miss you guys
Had something similair happen, dude just crashed in depression. Sucked a lot. Miss that game. Was a great DM, good players and just had a blast. Still looking for a group like that.
Had something similar happen in a Numenera campaign but at least they told everyone in advance that they were gonna delete the server so they could friend each other.
As a forever DM, and probably an Atlas DM too, that battles with depression, I think the best thing that can be done is that when the session ends make sure to do a wrap up. It's the Dimension 20 "Adventuring Party" concept that I've taken to heart to help heal my own. End the session and then check in on everyone in the group, just take a few minutes to unclench and get out of character. PCs can ask above the table questions and everyone can check in with each other on a real world level. It helps.
I did that with my first session as well and said that this format is always open for feedback. Being told I may fall into the Atlas DM also. I don't feel it's all on the DM for fun but there is a lot that does fall on DM. Looking forward to the second session.
An excellent suggestion. I have ADHD and it can cause some pretty severe depression, so I get your feelings on the matter. I think one of the healthiest habits we forever Atlas DMs can have is to talk with our players about our shortcomings and how they can help us going forward. When I started, I would just agonize about every mistake I made. Now I write down what I felt I could do better next time. I try to keep my eyes forward on how I can improve, and I talk with my players about how they are feeling about subjects I'm trying to improve on. They never fail to find words of encouragement and support.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. You make spaces like these brighter. Keep up the good work, my fellow DM!
I am a perpetual idea DM, but terrible at execution of said ideas. I want to run too many games to be able to focus on a single game let alone a singular adventure for any length of time.
I have ideas of what I would like to tell in a game aka the overarching plot and storyline. But at the same time I don't exactly like to railroad players because I hate railroad games (video or tabletop), but many of the players I know feel like I'm trying to rope a herd of toddlers.
I do sometimes however have a DM NPC that operates as a helper to the players, mostly to offer up world information for a new game the players may have no information on.
But once the players get a grasp of the world and it's specific rules that character becomes just a standard background NPC.
My games are limited to my brothers and very close friends, so we end up discussing our campaigns in pretty frank terms (three of us are the DMs for different games where the rest of us are players). I think a lot of DMs try to veil their games in secret, but we’ve all been pretty honest about, “Yo, I’ve setting up that plot twist for months now!!!” Or, “I absolutely panicked when you guys tried to do that.” Or “I kind of regret not doing this thing/I totally forgot to bring this thing up in the session.” I think it definitely helps the mood of a campaign when you don’t view the DM as some unapproachable God, and can just be honest about “Hey, I think that combo you did needs to be nerfed.” Or, “You’re right. I did kind of railroad you there a bit.”
As someone who has a bit of an Atlas DM mindset himself, its reassuring when my players thank me for running a session and say they enjoyed it. Hearing that they are enjoying the world they are exploring makes all the work and effort I put in worth it! I encourage players to make sure you do the same for your DM’s. They sacrifice their personal time to ensure that their players enjoy the game, so it can really go a long way to show them how much you appreciate their efforts! 🙂
You forgot about the 8th type: Me. Whenever I make you roll a dice I will also roll the same dice, and if we get the same number I will jump over the table and eat your dice.
That's a very specific fetish, but I don't judge.
@ judgement is the 9th toxic circle of DMing
That ain’t even toxic, that’s just deserved. Survival of the luckiest
This is so unhinged😭
See I just eat the dice after every roll that way I always have a dice stash
I think the best way to handle an "Atlas" is as a player, give affirmation to the DMs ideas and or others, to be engaging themselves, to simply give the DM a compliment during and after games, slowly but surely building up that confidence. Because that's what the Atlas is afraid of being boring, being judged by the player, in silence, behind his back and so on, that is where the pressure comes from. Relieve that pressure by simply saying "nice game, i really liked...." is a hilariously simple thing that can go a long way for people that are anxious and afraid that their efforts are not appreciated.
why you want to give a compliment to these jerks....
as a bonified perfectionist, even constructive criticism would be enough for me, just some sign that my players are even thinking about my games after they're over.
@@ghostprogramming They are not talking about clear jerks. They are talking about Atlas DMs who are not jerks to their players. They are jerks to themselves.
@@tomcaniff6437 Skeleton DMs ftw!
As someone with atlas tendencies, just gimme specifics of whst you liked.
It's incredibly common for players to go "great session, loved it" and then disappear into a void like that one "you're mine!" cat. Or spring on you that they suddenly can't play anymore. Or just straight up tell you "yeah, I'm not feeling it, cheers!".
So what to do? Personally, give actual feedback when asked for it. What you loved AND what you weren't so hot on.
Players can definitely help the Atlas DM by just saying that they enjoy the game when they do, and putting forth both what they liked and disliked about the session in a constructive way.
Yeaaah, the worst part of being an atlas is the anxiety of always wondering if your table is enjoying your game and trusting yourself. As an atlas is better to take it easy, at the end of the day every player has a different perspective of the game and experience and it’s hard to please everyone. As long as everyone is enjoying the game, having fun and making having feedback from your players, your anxiety levels will go down when dming
You forgot the 8th type, my DM. He made me sick for days and he didnt even taste good
Edit: never got top comment on a DnD Shorts video without him liking my comment too, oh bearded one why do you forsake me so
Phrasing?
Lizardfolkposting
See, that's why we don't eat raw meat
@@StoneDragonSmoothie feel like there isnt any possible other interpretation i didn't intend lmao
@@crystallxix1493 nope, worth a shot though lol
As a sadist GM, I'm hurt.
As a masochist GM, that's okay.
You just gotta let em know that "hey its gonna be more fucked then a stripper on free night "
If pinhead was a dm
@@noicon85 y'know what, that's the best compliment I've gotten
I absolutely LOVE that the entire time you're referring to the sadist, your are showing clips of Chevy Chase. I grew up watching him, love his "characters" and was SO disappointed to hear about what a schmuck he was IRL... So this made me smile.
Chevy?Isn't that a car?
(That you drive to the levee)
Who was he actually?I haven't heard of him.
@@BrunoMaricFromZagreb You're literally on the internet - maybe google him?
But Chevy Chase is/was a comedian/actor for the last 40+ years.
He was one of the original Saturday Night Live cast members (With Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray)
He was the dad (Clark Griswald) in every Nat. Lampoon Vacation movie.
One of the Three Amigos.
Google image search perhaps?
He is one of the founding members of SNL. He went on to star in multiple movie comedies. If you've ever watched any of the National Lampoon Vacation movies, he played the father.@BrunoMaricFromZagreb
@BrunoMaricFromZagreb wasn't the levee dry tho?
Highlighting that the Atlas exists and the natural cycles of games is in itself, very helpful. The first step in resolving a problem is recognising there's a problem after all.
It helps to have the cause, the lifecycle identified rather than looking at the symptoms, the games that "were great, but we're done now" and falsely identify yourself, the DM as the cause.
As a DM, I always put a pseudo pc/npc with the group. It allows me to redirect the game if I need to and salvage a situation if it starts to go sideways. I'm also careful never to put the character in a leadership role. It allows me to guide the story without railroading the pcs. I've never had any complaints, and I have players that have been playing with me for over 30 years. My current group is 7 plus me.
I would frequently use temp characters to shore up party weaknesses or clue my players in to things they needed to look at, especially if the party was small and couldn't cover all specialties. I always tried to come up with a reason that a DMPC was either over-reliant on PC input ("what do I do, guys?") or else had some character quirk that forced PCs to roleplay to get what they wanted. Like, I would legit put masters of ennui into the group who would watch the whole party die unless someone promised them the right reward because the reason they were out with a bunch of low-level characters at their level was that they were a lazy asshole who didn't pull their weight without super motivation. It's not the NPCs job to do the work, so putting a quirk like that in lets the players feel like their actions are pushing the story, I thought
For the Atlas DM Esper the Bard has a great video on the subjects were he ranks the types of DMs. In his video he refers to them at the anxious DMs. His advice is for DMs to let go of the fear as he brings up DMs who are able to keep players for a long time tend to already be a cut among the rest.
As someone who has a habit of being the Anxious/Atlas DM I can confirm that trying to let go of the anxiety and accept the fact that you have players that come regularly at all is a miracle. I am no were perfect in this and have a long way to go but acknowledging you are safe, you are loved, and your style is unique and you don’t need to depend on all the merchandise has helped wonders.
"Let go of the fear"... not exactly helpful advice. Anxious DMs need positive reinforcement from their players. They need to feel the excitement at the table, see players get into character and engage with their world, hear their players talk about their game with each other.
@ It’s a balance. Yes you need positive reinforcement from your players but at the same time you can’t just depend on it for security. You can ask for it to much and it could drain your players. You need to be able to not let your fear consume you to the point were you need positive reinforcement just to stay a float.
I use DMPCs quite commonly. It's when i don't have enough players to fill out a four person party. There's nothing wrong with it, in the least, as long as the DMPCs are support characters who don't make big decisions or lead the party
A good way to limit the necessary DMPC (if there's a crucial missing party role the adventure requires) is just to give them lower than average initiative. Not combat initiative, but initiative in general. Have them do fewer attacks, cast fewer spells, and so on (within reason.) Their job is to be sort of a safety blanket in case the adventure goes tits-up. Players like it when the DMPC comes in clutch to save a bad situation, when some bad rolls bring them close to some failure state.
I usually use DMPCs... If I try to not have one, my players adopt NPCs that they expect to fight along side them. Really never been a problem as long as their turn is streamlined, they are appropriately role played, and you don't have them steal the spotlight.
This. It's not hard to make a character that travels with the party, speaks when spoken too, occasionally has an idea when the party is hard stuck and has no ideas for how to progress, occasionally messes things up with a bad roll, and come in clutch when the players would prefer not to TPK (my group is okay get KO'd, but there are always some battles where it wouldn't make sense to wake up captured). As for possessing meta knowledge (a legitimate critique), I have a defined system for what the DMPC knows and what I know. I never allow the DMPC to know anything unless it makes sense for them to know it. Otherwise, they make guesses and I roll in front of my players. They're good about not abusing that they can see the roll and determine
Hell, my players feel bad for their current DMPC because she's the tank. She takes the most beatings so they can do the cool stuff more easily
@@Xan4591 100% My DMPCs will usually always have an opinion when asked. But the players know better than to take it as anything more than an opinion from a fixed perspective.
@SuperMattMart I've had DMPCs give information I know is wrong, not out of spite, but because they rolled low. I make this roll openly so my players can see. It's meta-gamey, but it's so my players know it's not me screwing them over, it's the DMPC not knowing something well. I make sure the DMPC says it in a similar manner, that they're not sure if it is that way, but that's what they heard.
NGL, we have a DM who could be seen as the favouritist.
Alternately "Why do we never get cool items?", "Because you always answer 'i dont know' when I ask what you want me to seed" is 100% of conversations about favouritism at our table too.
I've run into this too.
Player: "Hey DM why is she getting all the story beats???"
Me, the DM: I dunno, where's your fucking backstory writeup? Your character doesn't even have a last name.
Player: :O
I feel like you’re still kind of responsible, since you should never start a campaign until all of your players have some semblance of a backstory, even if that means, “Player, I want your character’s backstory to be X. You okay with that?” Just as a general life skill, don’t punish someone for not doing something, until you point out they should do that thing, offer to help them, then they still don’t do it.
That bully one shattered my first group, I was the first DM, starting a gaming group from the ground up, a bit of an Atlus and too in love with random tables.
Eventually I passed the torch to another who ran Strahd and became a bully DM.
Let's just say they did something heinous to me, giving me PTSD around TTRPG's for +2 years. (If you have dark spiraling thoughts seek therapy, recovery on your own is extremely difficult.)
Much thanks to my cousin who invited me to his dark heresy campaign, I had a blast and got over my remaining issues. Though the GM was definitely a favoritist with his wife and later with his friend.
I'm now the primary DM for a new group with better people (who incidentally redeemed critical roll fans in my eyes). Felt like a bit of a martyr finishing the Dungeon of the mad mage campaign but soon my next campaign will start and I'll put all my lessons to work honing myself into a GREAT DM.
Unless you've been officially diagnosed with PTSD, please don't say you have it.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 i mean, did they get stress, post a traumatic event, disorderly?
Then it's ptsd i belive
As most thing, PTSD isn't binary, it's not a object or virus you either have or don't have, if that was how we defined all things, we would all have cancer, as cancer cell periodically pops up and get destroyed throughout your life without it affecting you
I belive it's more of a spectrum, all PTSD isn't the same, some people can almost normaly live their life as long as they aren't triggered, some people can't even get through a day without horible distress
I think it's fair to compare PTSD to Dementia, Dementia being a umbrela term for mental and cognitive degradation, but dementia isn't a disease in itself, but a disease (like Alzheimer) can cause dementia
Not to mention that being diagnosed with anything doesn't give you the condition, by that logic, as long as you don't get diagnosed, you are immune to all disease and sicknesses, and even people who have killed themselves weren't depressed as long as they weren't diagnosed
@@emilstvring7577 You using words and phrases like "I believe," and "I think," just shows that you don't actually have any authority to talk about stuff like this. You're going in with a surface level of knowledge, and actign as if you have authority to define and explain what all of this is, and that's why you two shouldn't say that this is PTSD. If you two keep watering stuff down or making up false-definitions, you will only make it worse for people with serious cases.
Also, I am not saying that getting diagnosed gives you the condition. The fact that you made up such a thing, or arrived to that conclusion, shows a lack of critical thinking skills and comprehension. I am saying that the diagnosis will let them know that they actually have it, as opposed to your armchair psychology making up definitions. You assign logic to me and my arguments when there is nothing to suggest that I think that way, and then you pretend my argument is inherently stupid. I will not be wasting my time with lunacy.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 Because only people who say things with 100% full confident is trustworthy, and anyone who even consider alternatives must be idiots
And yes, i was using faulty logic to show faulty logic, as i did here, really, just rewriting what you wrote back to you
@emilstvring7577 1. That's not at all what I said. Give up on making strawmen, because it won't work. I said that you don't actually have any sort of knowledge about this, so you make up your own definitions that simply don't match or is not supported by what we know. You obviously don't know enough, because you wouldn't be saying stuff like "I think," and "I feel," or "I believe" if you did.
2. No, you aren't showing faulty logic. You're just working under faulty logic. You are rewriting my comments, but you're doing so by almost completely changing my arguments into something that is barely even remotely close to it, and you're doing that in order to make my arguments look worse and to make yours look better.
I had the luck to only play with good people and dms but unfortunately haven’t finished many campaigns due to party disbanding
Had the same issue for years, playing for a year or so, then people stopped showing up and the campagin died. My character Tav`ash wich was my first char have still yet to finish a full campagin.
I joined a new grp that plays once a week, so hopefully he will se the end of a story soon.
Me and the DM even worked in the "never finishing" a campagin into my characters backstory, he alrdy had been planeshifted away on a whim by a powerful Hag, and now because he cant seem to join a campagin that ends he has become a multiverse character.
@ my last 2 pcs never finished a campaign (currently searching for campaign I wish more people would play dnd and dm)
@@lixnix2018 I am tempted to try my ass on DM`ing, just to get more D&D in my life.
As finding and starting a group havnt been to hard, its just that they always disband before finishing a campagin.
I've lost players over my 2 year campaign. I'm afraid that the campaign will end because of lack of people and interest.
This is why I want to lock my friend is a basement abd force him to play DnD 😂
Joking aside, I think as fun as it is to have giant campaigns (time wise) it would be better to try and end it while people are still around over getting to the mid point with like 2 other people
I'm glad to actually see the backgrounds and justifications brought up instead of just painting every unfair/bad DM as being actively malicious. What I notice with the controlling types especially is how strictly written official adventures are and how dependent they are on certain events and offer almost nothing past the setpieces. It's these modules that make DMs just spin their wheels unless they actively interject and steer the party on the rails.
DMPC stuff has been always weird to me. In most games where I ran I only played them because I was specifically requested to make a DMPC. In my current Pathfinder 1e campaign my DMPC is largely just a vehicle to allow my players to communicate their intent and decisions in-character.
I feel for the last type of DM that common perception has been warped that game prep is a herculean task that requires tremendous amount of foresight and flowcharts and whatnot to be viable. You'd be amazed how much you can get by with just a general idea, an NPC motivation and rolling random monsters.
As a newbie dm who runs the official adventure, I wanted to add dmpc because the encounters are balanced for a 4 man party and we have only 3 players. -_- It also does not help that when you run into he pregen you wanna play it with everyone else since its not your love child you are proudly showing off, but someone elsese
Whew, thanks for calling me out as an Atlas. I have bought SO MANY resources to be a better DM, but every time I reflect on past games it was when I just let the creative juices flow naturally and use my own ideas. Players and I all enjoyed that more.
What would you say was the most useful resource to get?
I've recently decided to DM for a group of coworker friends after a long hiatus. This was helpful in that I now have a mental checklist of behaviors to watch out for and avoid. Not that I'm worried, per se, but still good for self reflection.
Thanks for always generating great content.
(Also, I can't wait to put Ryoko's Guide to use! I'm SO excited!)
i needed this video more than i expected. i myself am an Atlas DM. i worry a lot about the game, i feel like i'm not giving enough despite giving everything in my power to make my games as interesting and fun as possible. i worry about balancing out the encounters so they're not too easy but not too dangerous also. and most importantly - i feel worse for not knowing all the mechanics by heart, which some of my players do. and i'm thankful for them because they can correct me if needed, but at the same time, i envy them because i'm studying the game a lot and still can't remember how everything works. and sometimes it takes over, but sometimes the sessions come out great, not only because of what i prepared but because of the players' engagement too. i know they enjoy it and it makes me really happy, but at the same time i still try hard to keep them enjoying the game, because there's still a lot of ideas i want to share with them. i know i should stop, i should let myself go a little and not worry about every little thing...
but it's so goddamn hard not to do it.
7:21 not every DM that has a DMPC is the "usurper". I'm running a campaign right now where my players decided to hire a hireling who is just slightly above their level(they're level 4 he's a 5th level healer). He stands back smoking cigarettes and heals people. He takes no spotlight and only actually attacks enemies if the table is low(i run for a group of 3-10 players, so done nights he's active and some nights he's bored and sits out).
It's not about having a character to play, it's about giving the players a safety net of their design.
Agreed. The best GM I've ever played for also often employs DM PCs. They just know not to make the npcs the main character, aren't afraid of said DM PC making mistakes, and all in all makes them engaging character to roleplay with. It also helps that there's often a small rotating cast of them so it's not the same npc all the time, and there are times where there's no dm pc with us at all.
When I make a DM PC myself, it's less about being a player character and more having a consistent character around to RP with the party that I enjoy. I tend to go for a supporting roll NOT covered by anyone in the party and that doesn't take the spotlight. No bard in the party? Maybe the DM pc will be a bard and hand out bardic inspiration to players having back luck that particular session. No healers? Maybe a priestess who isn't much good in an direct fight but can supplement the party with healing to keep them going. The party are a bunch of chaotic gremlins with nary a positive INT or WIS modifier between them? Maybe they're a book smart person the party can fall back on for exposition and be the 'straight man' for the wackier characters to bounce off of etc.
Now I don't doubt there are a good number of Usurper DMs out there. I haven't run into any myself but I mostly play with a group of close friends I'm lucky to have. But I've seen enough horror stories about them that I'm sure they're out there. But there are some GMs that use DM pcs quite well.
Agreed. Also, I have a very small group of players, and having started out as a player in that group, then stepping up to DM after we kicked out our bully and sadist DM, they didn't want to lose my character. I offered to not play a PC and just DM, but my players asked me to keep my PC. So I have a DMPC for roleplay and combat support (I may slightly fudge the rolls during combat to allow one of the pc's to kill the monster if my attack technically took it out as well.... let them take the glory) and never give an opinion when the players are deciding what to do next.
11:47 its Johnny (surprised since he is not as known but is a really good gm)
As a DM he is basically my idol 😅 other people have Critical Roll and Matt Mercer, but I have Oxventure and Johnny
@DnDShorts - appreciate the callout for the final Atlas DM, alot of ppl need to hear that (myself included)
Dont forget the one that just changes the rules every 15 minutes, because there are homemade rules... but he didnt explained them. And once you see something happens and see the roll, you say.. oh, so its like that, ill do that. Then its not like that anymore. So you get confused and annoyed because everything you do may be easy or hard, and it has nothing to do with the action or the character, its just whatever the dm decides at that point.
Completely off topic from the video, but I recognized the location at 2:07 as the place I went bungee jumping while on vacation in New Zealand. It was my first time doing something like that and I had a blast. Lost my beanie to the river though...
This is the most positive video I've seen today. Thank you for it!
I definitely used to be a Bully DM, though not to the extent I see on RPG horror stories. During the first campaign I ran, most of the group were first time players except for one, and none of us really knew each other that well. That one player that had more experience was a really big power gamer, and came with a really strong build that, as a new DM, I had a really hard time balancing and that was really frustrating. I definitely was harder on that player, generally didn't give loot that I knew would help their build, and tended to target them more often than other players - something which I justified at the time as me trying to keep things level but, again, I was just frustrated.
As I became a better DM, the players became better players, and we got to know each other better outside of the game, that all improved, and me and that player are pretty good friends now. All this to say, there are a lot of reasons why a DM can become a bad DM, and I think we all start out with bad habits that we need to be introspective about and work on. And, y'know, talk to each other about. That player could have been a really good resource for me early on if I just bothered to voice what I was struggling with.
I bully the player which plays Isaac instead of listening to what's going on when I narrate the scene, and when I ask "what do you guys do" somehow does the worst move possible -_-
in my mind the atlas DM is "a victim of his own success". he sits down, uses his brain and imagination to craft something special. something he can hook into the story, or the world or a microcosm inside his world. and he links the PC's to those scenarios and historical events. and it is the same effect a crafter has: i want to show you that i made something cool. thats what anybody does who creates something. kids show you their first paintings, you make something from wood or an origami figure - excitement of what you made WANTS to the shared with friends, because shared joy, is joy doubled. so the reason as to why they to it - i feel that all too well^^
Much respect for using a clip from Voltron's "Monsters & Mana" episode!
I am part of a campaign that has been going for 10 years. The dm created a 5e epic handbook up to lvl 50 so we could keep playing our favorite characters. He sometimes is the atlas but for the most part is great.
This video is, very, kind.
You are very kind.
For favouritist and bully - it may be players' fault. If only one does good backstory, interesting and creative character or only one doesn't, than it's easy for dm to pick one character to favour or "bully" (as it's seen by player) and that's not fully a dm's fault. Of course, dm should track this, but not every time they can
As an atlas dm i must also add that regular burnout is not a myth. Take care of urselves and take regular breaks especially around festive periods
Hey all! Ex-atlas/controller DM here. Ive definitely stolen stories from video games or dramatic storytelling and forced my players into outcomes i thought would be fun, as i did feel responsible for their enjoyment. I used to hate DMing because every expectation I had for the game broke every time I DMed. It was terrible. But that was high school, and Ive grown a lot in terms of how i think about this game. Funny because its part of the Atlas description, it took consuming DND content related to educating people on negative DM habits that made me realize what I was doing wrong. (CR and How to be a Great GM) I now DM without worrying about what my players think because I trust them and they trust me. I am okay with my players doing things that go against my plans because those are the best story moments. The most rewarding part of being a DM is both when you surprise your players and when they surprise you. It also helps that i learned some groups need to be railroaded just a little if they arent good at creating their own character motivations, its totally fine. I also stopped comparing myself to DMs like Mercer, it wasnt healthy and bad for everyone. I have my own style and my own playgroup, and if my players seem like theyre into the game a little, theyre likely enjoying it more than you think. Sometimes players need fo go on their phones or get distracted to actually feel like theyre apart of the game (dont punish neurodivergence) I had to learn all of this to get where i am at with my group today, and getting here just takes experience and repetition. If you want to change, you'll get there, and you'll have a lot of fun :)
Concern about player fun? Check
Not even started DMing for real and already had a burnout period after 100h prep? Check
Relentlessly consume DnD content and products? Check
Spent money on DnD "improvements"? Check
I'm aware that I'm anxious when it comes to other people's validation of my skills but also I want to give players on my table the experience that I would like to have as a player. Dnd became my favourite hobby 4 years ago and since then I've learned a lot about what I and my friends like as players. This will be my first time Dming and I'm 100% Atlas Gming for the most part. Hurts to get reality checked but it's for the best. Thanks Buddy!
I'm about to start a campaign for the very first time as a DM! I've been worrying whether I'm going to be a Controller, but then the Atlas got mentioned and oooh boiii... Spot on. Thank you so much for this insight!
A good idea is to prepare some basic modular encounters that you can easily insert when the party decides to go somewhere unplanned, and while the party is busy dealing with that you can try to seed some more plot threads that would encourage them to go in the direction you've prepared. Maybe the party stumbles into a spider cave and find a somewhat recent body clutching some vials of venom and on their body the PCs find a note describing a conspiracy to assassinate an important figure. One that just so happens to be involved in the actual storyline for the campaign.
@SethAbercromby That sounds like a very good strategy to keep the mind calmer when at the table! Thank you :D will definitely work with that!
Fix for the Atlas
As a player: let them know if you are enjoying their game. Give them ideas, even if they aren't fully fleshed out, about what you want to do or what items or feats whatever you want
As the dm: make the most perfect game possible, inevitably fail, play any using the very good game that you tried to make perfect, watch as you have fun without or even in spite of the plans you built. Expect the unexpected means to be ready for something you didn't account for to happen and is great advice for dnd like when players fall in love with the random npc you literally just made up
I'm definitly an Atlas DM. I didn't spent much money in DnD and other rpg (except the corebooks) but I watch a lot of DnD campaign online and I'm always scared that the group of friends with whom I DM think the story is boring or they lie when they say that they had fun 😅
atlas DMs: RUN SHORTER GAMES. write a campaign that lasts NO MORE THAN 10 sessions and once you finish it, half of your anxieties will melt away
When I first started as a DM, I used to be an "Atlas" DM, constantly stressed about whether my group was having fun. This pressure ended up causing the campaign and even some friendships to crash and burn. Looking back, the group I was with wasn’t really helping matters, and it’s actually a good thing that I’m no longer playing with them, though I still miss playing with a few of them.
These days, I still care a lot about whether my players are having fun, but I don’t let it impact my games as much. I’ve accepted that everyone has different tastes and won’t all enjoy the same parts of the game equally-and, most importantly, that I’m supposed to have fun as well.
Helicopter bungee jumping? Bro is on another level
I've had a DM who was a combination of the Atlas, the Sadist, and the Favouritist, all rolled into one. It was not a fun time, but the only other option was to be the DM myself (nobody else "knew how") or leave, and I wanted to play the game for once rather than be a DM. I'm also an introvert who gets uncomfortable around people I don't know, so it's a bit difficult to find a playgroup where I'm not the DM. Tangent aside, it's probably no surprise that particular campaign died.
Thanks for this! I question myself, like we all do I think, if I am making an enjoyable experience. I can say today that I do not think I have any of these toxic traits as a DM. I am sure I make a ton of errors, but as a table, we all figure out how to work through any missteps by me or the players. To me, every game is a shared experience, not a me vs. them fight.
I like it when your left eyebrow and the tag on your hat match up like that - it looks like you have one Ming the Merciless eyebrow!
Interesting take on the argument: putting it simple, the toxic dms are almost always those that break or don't care about the "social contract", using the "big model" terminology, thus failing to establish the common and basic ground for a game to play, before even it can be considered fun or not.
I needed this video. I'm loosing my steam for D&D. And since this is the first D&D video I've watched in a while, I now see that the issue is the DM in the campaign we're playing. They're a Controller and Favoritist...but mostly a Controller. Super high DC's, massive enemy damage outputs, and creative ideas never work out. I'm *this close* to dropping out.
I probably fall into the category of an Atlas Dm, but one thing that helps me a lot is that my friends tell me about things they enjoyed most sessions, not necessarily every session but it's helped me realize not every session needs to be a ballpark grand slam.
What I see in live plays, podcasts and such, that make the DMs great is that they work so well with everyone else. I’m gonna use Avantris as an example- they rotate DMs depending on the campaign, there’s always players thanking the DM at the end of every session, and while the DM will make them reroll sometimes, they have a limited number of “twists” and won’t do it just to torture them.
Crazy to see how close this channel is to 500k!! Hype for you, man!
As a bit of an Atlas, the best advice that has helped me, especially with the sort of imposter syndrome doubt of whether the players are having fun or not, is to do just the quick survey at the end of session: asking if anyone had anything they liked, things they didn't like, questions, comments, concerns, etc.
Just keep it super casual and don't go in expecting everyone to speak up or have something to say. You'll start noticing that your players almost always only have good things to say, when they bring something up, even the things they didn't like are likely to complements (like hating an NPC, but really likeing how you played them sort of thing). It really helps to assuage those fears, at least for me.
I came alive when I started DM'ing, and I think I struggle with Atlas-dom, but as it was being explained I remembered something I say at every session 0.
"Rule number Zero, the most important thing is that everyone at the table has fun. This is meant to be a collaborative story telling event, a hobby that helps us escape from the day to day. Rule number Zero point one, the DM is at the table. I'm here for my enjoyment as much as I am for yours."
Damn, was not ready for the precision strike attack from the Atlus section.
I definitely have some Atlas DM in me so it's good to know from the comments there are a fair number of DMs like it. I am a longtime player and a group of my friends who fell in love with Baldur's Gate 3 really wanted to try tabletop D&D, as the only experienced player I took that role on for them so my inexperience definitely brings in a lot of Atlas qualities to my mental about it. Thankfully my players always thank me for running the session and for my work so it keeps me a little sane. I love running this world for them way more than i ever expected and I am happy for the experience regardless. Also when they go to our mutual friends and rave about the last session really puts a smile on my face too. Also, yes they are all now addicts like the rest of us, we are about 6 weeks into our start and they've all purchased many (and I mean many) sets of dice, dice trays, etc.
I guess I have a bit of Atlas tendencies, in the sense that I _do_ feel responsible for my players' happiness and enjoyment at my table. But to my credit, I am lazy enough to not over-prep, confident and capable enough to successfully "wing it" if necessary, and experienced enough to know that a happy table is not made by myself alone. Plus, I'm fortunate enough to have players who are responsible enough to come every week to play at my table, so I think it's only fair that I share in that responsibility to do my part. :D
Atlas DM here. Having you describe me to a tee was mentally painful! LOL I'm thinking maybe you're one too since you got it so spot on!
Normally, I avoid videos like this, but this was honestly extremely well done! Excellent video!
I actually have a fun story that runs on a tangent to the Usurper...but this one has a wholesome twist. The DM set us up with a pretty simple and easy encounter as we just started at level 1. Buuuut everyone rolled badly and the enemies rolled way too many critical hits. Rather than call it a wash and start over, the DM instantly inserted a character who came and saved us at the last minute. But instead of taking him and running away with it, he instead just had him carry on with us as an observer and almost a mentor. We got into all sorts of trouble and the story was still very much player driven. We just at times had this badass bard with us that would lend us a hand, but was mostly just there to recount the tales of our adventures. We eventually parted ways with that character, but I will never forget that as an awesome way for the DM to insert one of their characters into the story and play along with us while still being a good DM and letting us, the players, have most of the agency.
Love that you're using footage of the _Community_ D&D episode
Atlas DM is something I used to be. It is hard to break out of, cause it requires a lot of self awareness, but also to reassure yourself it's ok to not always do your best- we just grow and become better from our mistakes. It also requires your Players to do their part, help the DM, and ensure a fun time for each other. When everyone is in sync doing teamwork, the game WILL be great cause you guys all work it out to be great. It's a TEAM game, not just the DM's job but the DM must also respect everyone and themselves to do the best job possible.
A lot of the Atlas tendencies can be assuaged by playing with friends rather than strangers or "gaming friends". When I had those doubts as a DM knowing that one of my players was my good friend and he said hed never quit my game and was always super excited helped a lot.
Thank you for your insights. I watched because I wanted to better our games, and learned that I am an Atlas DM. I enjoy the time spent together, but thinkI need to expand to other games. I fear the money investment and inability to find others with a shared interest. However, I shouldn't let fear determine my actions.
I appreciate all you do, and want to emphasize that you do a lot for many people both in and outside the D&D / TTRPG community. Once again, thank you.
I add friendly npcs and have them just meld into the background or I greatly truncate their turns and and only describe their actions when necessary; "The druid you guys befriended sees you guys have all been taking quite a bit of damage and steps forward to bless you all with a quick mass healing word." Stuff like that.
This is a great video because it reminded me this is all a spectrum. Many dms do some of these things to some degrees without outright achieving toxicity I think, but if you do them too much or in too extreme a way that it becomes toxic.
11:47 a sudden Johnny Chiodini appears! Oxventure finally makes an appearance in a DnD Shorts video!
I'm a first time DM, and i've just had my first 2 sessions of Strange Aeons with the 3rd this weekend. This has been... enlightening.
For me, my atlas tendencies come from my perfectionism and my self-critical nature. I have the need to perfectly set up everything and also the demand on myself that everything I do must be the best possible. And in that it is hard not to think about everything a lot of times and not see problems in not enough planing from my side.
What really helps me is a clear response. Player that are really wanting to see what happens after the last cliffhanger, players that are thanking for the session or just a good talk in the after-session. Or also players that tell me ideas they have for the campaign.
Something that gives me the feeling I have reached at least most of my goals and the group did have fun.
With the Atlas DM, having open conversations with their table is key to recognizing that their falling into it and to be reassured that their creating fun.
The Atlas Type really hit me in the feels, but I don’t think I can change it.
I had a DM that was the favoritism type, allowed a toxic player (barbarian with main character syndrome) to have a unbalanced homebrew race, use unbalanced homebrew feats, open up their character story early that and got items without question. So that barbarian was able to do more AoE magic damage than the casters and whose melee dmg at level 7 could equal that of a ancient dragon. My artificer had a story beat that was just to pay for a mystery item that turned out to be a recipe list of potions that help melee classes. Thankfully the DM started a new game without the toxic player and is playing more fair.
This reminds me of the time when an acquaintance said he was an experienced DM and wanted to DM a simple 3.5e game for our group. Then he said we started in a tavern, it was a sandbox game, and he just watched a group of mostly new players sit there and roleplay eating food. And he kept rolling dice to figure out what to do. Like, when he just rolled dice and said "oh there are some bandits nearby..." and when we left to take care of the bandits, he rolled dice and said "oh theres a storm" so we couldn't leave....eventually he said he was bored and said everyone died.
So, fun story (and maybe important lesson) about playing while having meta knowledge: When my brother and I first played a ttrpg, namely a system our brother had come up with after playing several systems himself with friends, I quickly realized that the adventure we were playing, a murder mystery plot, was the exact same thing the DM had told me about a year prior, before I had mentioned that I was interested in this.
In other words, I had the full story, including character relations, and also the culprit.
I decided to play a more passive role, letting my brother take the lead and helping him with things he wanted to do, while also occasionally pointing out things that would definitely get someone killed.
I did let him use his war hammer to knock on someone's door, though (my character made a new one for the guy).
We did solve the case in the end, and the culprit was executed, and our DM didn't even realize his mistake until I told him afterwards. He was pretty happy that I kept to myself, though.
I think DM PCs are fine as long as you keep them simple - one major backstory event, and one main ability. This often means keeping them as a low-level fighter or something like that. Swing a sword and leave it at that on their turn. That way if the party is stuck on something or wants information, you’ve got a character to sort of guide them, but when they’re not needed they can safely fade into the background as just an extra sword to help with bigger enemies. DM PCs can also help involve another PC’s backstory and stuff like that at tables where not everyone has backstories and/or someone’s been trying to hint at one but others aren’t picking up on it. It gives you the opportunity to ask characters questions that haven’t been asked yet, etc.
Sometimes I do what the usurper does and try to add a character to the party to help them. Difference is when I do it it's a Skyrim follower who just babbles on about getting their ass kicked and not really doing anything unless prompted by the other players. Typically happens when the party lacks a healer or utility caster
Exactly what i do aswell. The character will only be support, have skills they lack and interact with them only to bond, but never makes ANY decision for the players except in one single case: If they decided to go after the npc backstory and it comes to a moment of "revenge vs mercy" and at that moment they all decide to leave it up to the npc.
@0lloc0 That, or we're in combat. I don't give them their own actions or anything but if a mf gets within melee range for a reaction, npc will smack em with whatever's in hand for minimal damage. And with the given parameters of having the npc in the first place, npc is in the back of the party anyway (unless told to do something else) so atp there's really no avoiding doing it bc the party is either preoccupied or almost completely wiped. I won't do it if it'll kill the enemy though unless I ask the players ahead of time "hey this is what bro will do, are you cool with em getting the kill if it happens?" and they're cool with it
I'm the usurper but because party needed cleric after one person left but NOBODY wanted to play cleric. Also i made my character kinda underpowered and nearly all rolls/checks left mostly to other players.
I ran a homebrew campaign for several years for a group of very close friends and I never realized I was absolutely an Atlas DM. I listened to a lot of Critical Role, i stressed over plot points and set pieces to try and make sure my players were going to have the best session every session. I even taught myself rudimentary fluid dynamics calculations for a session. When my brother, who was in my playgroup, complained to me about the things he didn't like about my DM style it caused me to burn out so hard I swore off being a DM and still haven't given it another attempt.
It’s funny cause we played a campaign where one of the players WAS the main character. But the play group actually enjoyed it and we all just rolled with it and it ended up being really fun
This was such a well thought out video and point about how each doesnt respect a player including the atlas. very clever
In the early 90s, I encountered a toxic DM. My partner at that time and I had seen an advert at a local game store for a game and went to join it. We were surprised a couple other players were people we knew from a different hobby but hadn't, before, spent much time with them. So the game and the DM. In the beginning of the campaign, he did a few lightly toxic things but because we all wanted to play, we ignored them or played around them. After a few months, when we were more invested in our characters and getting close to the end of the big dungeon we had been playing through (my memories are a little vague, I -think- it was one big dungeon or it all blurred into one and I'm not sure how many weeks/months but I think close to a year or a little more than a year), he started to show all his toxicity. While we had all had characters who had died along the way in not really unexplainable or horendous ways and had to roll new characters to continue, the characters in the final stage were those we had each had for several weeks. One by one, in what ended up as the last session, he killed off our characters. A couple of us players were in the kitchen, one 'dead' and the other just recharging drink/food, when we mentioned the extra deadliness of the session. The DM's wife, who wasn't playing, laughed and told us her husband had always been a player-killer DM where they lived before and was one reason he would advertise at game stores for players ('cause no one would play with him on a second campaign). I don't remember who survived and who didn't, but all the players resolved to never play with him again and moved to playing at the home of one of the others instead. We had a few rotating GMs after that and occasionally we get into a conversation remarking on the toxicity of that previous DM. Months after we left that game, I saw an advert at the same game store from that DM. Someone else had scribbled a cautionary note in the margin that he was a player-killer. I didn't recognize the handwriting but did concur with the sentiment.
Holy Hell... I'm the atlas dm. I always kinda knew this, but this is 100% me. A player recently left my paid campaign just as it was starting and all I could think was "Yea, makes sense, im probably not good enough for them to see my services as worth it. Bummer".
I have quit a group due to a railroading and controlling DM before. Making modifications to rules to unnecessarily nerf a legitimate and not over powered build from the beginning. Providing inadequate plot hooks with obvious traps and absolutely refusing to allow me to say my highly intelligent character who had a high perception and investigation roll refused to step into the obvious traps. He even got mad when I nat 20d my con save to get a permanent plot related curse because he couldn't argue that I should be cursed anyway (since it would be a clear reveal the roll was meant to be failed). I missed a session and another player controlled my character, rolled well on Sleep to knockout and de-escalate a fight (which is what I would have done) and he just said Nope doesn't work... No explanation and not within RAW due to the HP of the single target
I’m guilty of being an Atlas DM
If there is any advice I would give, just remember: Don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good.
Campaigns will always derail or deviate what you had planned, but at the end of the day, if the players are happy then all is well. You did a great job.
I consider myself a sadist DM, but mostly becouse i like to cause the character ptsd.
Going over boundaries of the player is a big no no
I just escaped a toxic DM. Even my real life friend who also played in that group noticed a trend where my character kept getting singled out for being paralyzed, silenced, or controlled by enemies in parts of the story where the enemy has to show us that we're not strong enough to fight them. That, among other things, was enough to cause me to quit that group.
You talking about the Atlas DM makes me want to start my campaign again.
I use dmpcs because I have a party of 2, but it's usually in the form of a character that offered to help. It's not just one character forced into the party
I also often (not always) have a dmpc, but it's usually at the request of my group. People have their favourite classes and playstyles, and want gaps in the line up filled. So they get an NPC, but with sheet and everything, and me as the DM to roll for that character and level them. Its usually just a utility character, healbot or extra tank. I tried reducing fights, so people did not have to worry about heals and "front line" so much, but they got bored and wanted "more action back in their games". It really does not help that the average D20 roll at that table is a 5, I wish I was kidding.
@ottodeluxe my party got a druid and a barbarian to help clear some undead.... which included a death knight.... at level 6
I run a DMPC when I have small groups to fill in role gaps (usually a tank), but I also primarily DM for kids and my family and specifically build the character to not be a skill monkey, face, or anything that could outshine the actually PCs. I usually don’t even “control” the character. I just ask the party what they want the character to do in their turn. I’d have them roll for everything as well, but I can resolve rolls faster still (playing with kids and I know the rules and results at a glance). I’ve never felt like I stole the show or even impacted the story except to improve party survivability. It also should be noted that in the kids campaign, they’re a Druid and Ranger, and in the family one they’re a Ranger and ranged Warlock so we’re talking fairly squishy ranged characters. …doing a purely ranged fight would be boring and making them deal with melee all the time would ruin the fun of the game for them. I do everything I can to make them feel like their PCs are the big damn heroes.
@redactedlemons6817 mine is also a ranger and a warlock coincidentally. My brother and his girlfriend
In my opinion, a true DMPC is a character that the DM is attached to in the same way that a player is attached to their PC, not just an NPC that has joined the party.
In sort of the same situation as you, I am doing a solo campaign for my partner where she'll need a full party, so I'm adding "companions." Sort of BG3 style where she can select who's in the party.
I'll give them all personalities, but their motivation in this case are just in line with her PC's motivations, so no real companion quests or anything. I'll have them comment on stuff and respond to her questions, usually by having them all give different opinions so I'm not pushing her in a direction. Finally, she controls all of their combat actions.
I don't think any of that qualifies as DMPC.
In another scenario, my group wanted a rigger "DMPC" for their Shadowrun crew. I acquiesced, but really the character has become an NPC getaway driver so I can ferry them around. I don't have the character do anything that might assist with the party's decision making, though I am not above using the character to impart knowledge that may help the team figure something out.
Yeahhhhh, I might be a little bit on the Atlas side. Always want to make sure everyone is enjoying it. Thanks for the video
Also the first story was discussed on xp to level 3. Cool to see two great creators talk about it.
With the whole 'make your bad guy look evil' schtick, I try to either telegraph it in a 'this is the result of the parties' actions' way (one party saw the witch that was after them flying toward an inn which had sheltered them and didn't turn back), or put it in a scenario where the party is free to intervene but doing so carries a major risk (like a public execution for that pirate they sailed with). It's also worth noting that the infamous tree scene from critical role used random villagers, not NPCs the party knew.
i remember the few times i played with a different group with my then gf because i was nervous my super edgelord group would turn her off, the DM gave her such obvious favouritism and was a bit creepy towards her in game having bards at every tavern we went fawn over her so i started getting frustrated holding my temper not to call the the guy out for this bs and after a few sessions she didn't want to play DnD at all... i think the edgelords would have been a better option because at least i know the boys well
I think you can help Atlas DMs by taking as much from their shoulders as you can: Do the Scheduling for the next session, do a session summary, give them suggestions for things or plot hooks your character might be interested and in general show that you´re invested in their game. If they arent also controllers, you might even be allowed to take over some minor gameplay role (like managing the bastion) or run a game with them as the player.
Honestly im playing a campaign right now and my DM has several DMPC's in the party. Now at first this might sound like a bad thing, but honestly its one of the best things about the campaign. He runs them instead like Bioware companion NPC's, they all have their own character sheets, and their own motivations like a PC but they are honestly a joy to be around. Basically a DMPC can work if you actually understand how to run a game properly
The only DMPC I have ever used was a Kenku Rogue. They were there for 2 reasons. The party was only 3 players running through a tough module, and they wanted a rogue.
I made them a Kenku, so that the only time they ever spoke was through mimicry, to aid in pushing points the players made home, or adding some funny moments.
They never took the spotlight, their turns were pre-rolled in combat so as to not slow things down. Overall. I think his inclusion went over very well.
I think we all felt called out when number 7 came around.
Remember, its jist a game. Your players have more fun than you think, and being open in communication with them will help set worries aside. Focus on your dming, enjoy your part to play, roll some dice.
I definitely feel like I’m an Atlas DM.
I’m a first-time DM, and I haven’t actually played much DND because every time I’ve tried, I end up at one kind of toxic table or another. So because I like storytelling, I took up the DM mantle by choice, and, tbh, I’d be happy if I never got to be a player character ever again!
But, because I don’t have experience with what a good DND table looks like, I’m constantly agonizing quietly if my party is having a good time and I’m trying my best to make sure my players feel welcome at my table and their voices are heard.
I did recently get a lot of positive feedback because I’m trying to work with a few of my quieter players to develop their characters more, and give those characters a space to shine. I also had a player come to me excited with an idea for his character, saying he’s finally figured out what he wants to do and that everything is coming together for him, and that made me feel really good about the game so far. (I even got to make my own warlock patron for the first time!)
I’m a perfectionist, and I think I always will be. I know there’s stuff I can do better (I’m not really great with maps lol), but my players seem to be enjoying themselves and looking forward to each week’s game. I’m trying to tell myself that’s the most important thing, and I’m doing my job if they like playing each week.
So I do want to make a small case for DMPCs as they aren’t always bad. To expand, I run a Star Wars 5e campaign for my two best friends. Their characters are brothers with one being a Jedi and the other being force sensitive, but having never been found by the order. Both of them play their characters as very dense and goofy with very narrow sets of skills. So I gave a story reason for them to have a group of republic troopers tagging along with them on their missions (it’s old republic era btw) their tag along a function as a bit extra crowd control and to plug some skill holes they have so they aren’t forced to brute force their way through everything. That being said, the players have the final word on any plans and tactics. They run the show, and I get to have an in game way to explain something they should know ic but don’t oc, and have the fun of rolling a couple dice alongside my friends. I’ve found that the balance is having a fully fleshed out character, but never letting them take limelight away from players, and keep them under strength by comparison. Players are level 10? Welp guess this dmpc is gonna sit at 7 at the highest. It’s all just a balancing act
There is one type of DMPC that's acceptable:
When they're actually just a support NPC because there's not enough players, but you don't have the time, or the players are vehemently opposed to downgrading the printed modules.
That or I'm just in a really unique situation DMing for my wife who wants to experience the Adventure Paths without me toning it down. So I usually wind up running gestalt & build a support NPC that covers whatever aspects of the game her character doesn't lol.
7:32 I play with my wife and each of us has 2 characters under control. The solution for the DMPCs is that they are there just to role-play and help out in combat, or sometimes to convey what DM wants to tell. They never participate in solving riddles, or take away attention, and it works perfectly.
The DM in the 1st one didn't even allow players to roll. They rolled for everything for everyone. It was an insane read.
For Atlas types, such as myself, my best advice is to hard limit your prep time. Order your prep from most important to least important and then force yourself to stop when you hit the reasonable time limit. It has done wonders for my potential burnout. Remind yourself that if you're players aren't having fun with that level of prep, there is nothing reasonable you can do and maybe it ultimately isn't a good fit. I also try to pick one player for each session where I prep something special for them: a dream, a special loot item, some key interaction with a NPC, or interesting observation they might gain by their background. This again limits prep, but allows special moments fairly consistently around the table. Often these things don't land, but then I have a nice store of elements I can weave in when appropriate, later.
The first dnd session I ever run I was, by total accident, the favoritist dm. My players luckily told me and I improved from there.
So glad DnDtubers are supporting Solo Play now!