now here's a 17 minute guitar solo Addendum: I actually like the Dead and I'm just goofing on guitar players because I am one now but started as a drummer.
Guitar solos can be songs unto themselves with different melodies, rhythms behind them, and harmonies with other instruments at the same time. A solo doesn't mean no other instruments are present whatsoever and the guitarist is just playing fast. Look up the solo from the Spirit Carries On and see if that is anywhere near what you are implying here.
@@SefniAsheforr the spirit carries on? damn dude if that's your idea of the pinnacle of guitar solos i envy the musical journey you have laid out before you, there's some shit out there that'll knock your socks off
@@methyod I'm talking about phrasing and emotion, not just technical mastery. Solos that are not just crazy over the top shredding like the initial comment was implying. Trust me, I've listened to a ton of Prog and other crazy stuff.
@tesom it's a sarcastic joke, not a poor example. Jerry Garcia was a known hardcore drug addict & his music was heavily influenced by them. Yet, he had the nerve to call something different...not music. Never could stand this guy
Sorry what he said hurt you, but he's right. Music has a strict definition with a mathematical foundation. I studied music theory all my life, but I couldn't rap a word if my life depended on it. Rap is poetry and it is art, but it's not music.
@@BitwiseMobile how is rap not music? at what point do you draw the line where something stops being music and becomes something else? is it not convenient and sensible to just accept rap music as music and call it a day?
@@americanjones500 Not all rap 'sucks'. I'm very much in the prog and fusion camps, but I appreciate that some rap is good. I also see that a lot of classic rock is way overrated.
@@davidmorgan6896 I'm talking about many styles of music!! Rock,R.B, country,soul,blues,pop... Point is musicianship. Rap doesn't do that. They sample (steal) a good sound and spew nonsense!! That's like eating fastfood garbage. I rather have home cooked!! Get me!?
"Rap is not music. It has rhythm and it has meter and let me just trail off of this sentence because it's starting to disprove my own point... but it's not music!"
You're taking the term "rap" as meaning a genre of "music" whereas he's talking about it in what it really is. To rap literally means to talk. It's a much older slang word meaning to talk that was used waaaay before it was used to describe a genre of "music".
@@General_Junkie in what world do you live in where rap isn't a genre of music and is a synonym for speaking? even if they're not singing(which alot of rappers do) there is songs that literally have no words, but the only difference is that it was made by white dudes
@@electromancer2645 yes it is. all sounds have a note, which is why a drum is still tuned to notes like any other tension based instrument. A speaking voice still has melodic properties. Is a Buddy Rich drum solo not music?
"Music is generally defined as the art of arranging sound to create some combination of form, harmony, melody, rhythm, or otherwise expressive content"
@@mikxly8147 quite literally yes… especially the mainstream rappers the especially talentless (yes I’m talking about Kanye) same “pussy ass money” rhyming schemes with the same trap music
@@endorphinstudios2023 But was Rice better than Strings?? Pffft. I've played for almost three decades and real musicians don't play the "who's better than" game. That's bullshit.
This is coming from a guy that grew up in a generation where his parents would tell him that rock ‘n’ roll wasn’t music. All four of my grandparents thought that rock ‘n’ roll was nothing but noise.
@@pimpsongaming6089 A musician is a person who composes, conducts, or performs music. According to the United States Employment Service, "musician" is a general term used to designate one who follows music as a profession.
@@Builderdrone but aside from the lyrics what does the rapper contribute? The actual musicians involved with rap music are the producers that create the backing tracks. It takes a lot of time and practice to be proficient with an instrument. Ask yourself how long lil xan had to practice and hone his craft to become a rapper.
@@pimpsongaming6089 first of all, to say they aren’t providing anything is bs. you try rapping like pop smoke or kendrick, you can’t. writing rhymes and lyrics is a skill and to deny it is silly. second of all, pretty much all rappers are involved in the production of their beats, if they don’t make them themselves. And that argument is void anyways considering how many artists have a whole team of ghost writers and producers essentially making the music for them. it’s way easier to make a good pop song than it is to make a good rap song.
I feel like people who don't listen to a certain genre shouldn't comment on that genre since the only knowledge that they have of the genre is what's popular. Rap seemed repetitive to me when I was younger only because i heard the mainstream songs, but once i dug deeper into rap, it ended up being my favorite genre. All it takes to understand something is to do research. Being ignorant to something at first glance creates stubbornness. We have the devices we have now for a reason.
Hey witch doctor, give us the magic words All right, you go ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang All right Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting ting walla walla bang bang Doh, doh, doh, doh I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you Doh, doh, doh, doh I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you Doh, doh, doh, doh And than the witch doctor, he told me what to do He told me Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang wall awalla bang bang Doh, doh, doh, doh I told the witch doctor, you didn't love me true Doh, doh, doh, doh I told the witch doctor, you didn't love me nice Doh, doh, doh, doh And than the witch doctor, he gave me this advice Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang You can keep your love from me just like you were a miser And I'll admit it wasn't very smart (ey-ey-ey-ey) So I went out to find myself a guy that's so much wiser And he told me the way to win your heart Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh Ooh ee ooh ah ah (doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh) Ooh ee ooh ah ah (Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh) Ooh ee ooh ah ah (Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh) Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Come on and Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
@@bradsanders407 No, Windowpane was actually acid - it got it's name because the tiny clear squares resembled a pane of window glass. It was pretty popular back then, especially at Rock concerts such as the Gratefull Dead and other bands of that era.
I always thought he sounded like a Kebbler elf. Huge Jerry fan, and a lover of Rap. But I always thought his speaking voice was so unexpected when you compare it to how soulful his singing was.
@@slinkystarfirelight5968 jerry garcia in this video here, and his band the grateful dead, were amazing at this, the improvision between the members during live performances was spectacular. They could play in perfect harmony with each other for hours
A lot of R&B artists, soul singers and funk bands felt the same way (Prince and Rick James for example) but eventually got forced to experiment to be commercially viable.
This interview was from over 30yrs ago and Jerry was a boomer even then, literally! I have no doubts that given the chance to evolve his opinion on this subject through more and more exposure to the genre over the years he would have revised his proclamation seen in this clip. He definitely would have come to recognize Rap as well deserving of the classification “music.”🎶
With all respect, man. Jerry was exposed to rap from the late 70's through mid 90's. Plenty of time to form his opinion, which he did. It is what it is.
I felt the same way. But I liked straight outta compton in 1989 in my college dorm and my opinion started to change a little. I started actually listening instead of blocking my ears to some of the music.
@@davidataturk4357 obviously cause they are rappers. They rap. You're thinking of producers like Kanye and Dre, in which case yeah they do have instrumental tracks too.
He is 100% right. I’ll admit that back in the day I was a PE and De La Soul fan. But talking over a beat is not music. More like poetry than anything else.
Producing a rap beat is music, it takes intricate knowledge of phrasing and keys, and emcees operate discs as an instrument. And regardless, rap is a serious talent and the art is devalued when you try to define what it is. You think it’s “music” to use a cannon as percussion in a symphonic piece? Tchaikovsky certainly seemed to think so. You think it’s music for Grateful Dead, Garcia’s band, to play drums and space, a cacophony of strikes and synths, for 30 minutes? I can believe it is, same as I believe rap is.
@@DougieNelson82 you seem to care a lot about what is and isn’t music for somebody telling others to get over it. Why do you feel the need to label rap differently?
I used to argue with a coworker all the time who loved ambient/noise/drone stuff, and I would scream that it isn't music because there's no rythym or melody. It took me years to realize that, if it successfully communicates a feeling they were trying to convey, then the music did it's job. I do agree with Jerry on his underlying principles on rap not being real music, but on a definitive level, it's hard for me to say it isn't music either...
Thats totally not true. Middle class imbeciles alert. You may have tried hard to sound profound but you like fools. Rythmic vocal patterns over a beat is totally music. Im sure the old heads of the 1920s and 1930s probably thought Jazz wasnt music because it was mainly improvisation?
By no definition is he right. Rap has music underneath the mc. And even if it were simply drums as the foundation under the mc, it still would be music as music does not require a melody to qualify as music.
My issue with calling rap music is the fact that the rappers get all the credit for being amazing musicians - in reality the producer of the music is the one who is the great musician. The guy that actually plays instruments to make the songs before they are rapped on deserves way more credit. Rappers only do 5% and the producer does the other 95%
You literally still can. You're confusing receiving criticism with not being able to voice your opinion. You can say what you want, but other people are also allowed to disagree with you.
@@billyusher4907 the internet hadn't created the retarded mob mentality most young people have these days though so people would actually think for themselves, not just repeat what's popular online
@@donhagerty5669 yeah I don't agree with Jerry on this opinion but i love his music a lot better than I do rap or hip hop so I'm just willing to let opinions be what they are
Then ray Charles doesn’t know rap was literally derived from jazz and soul. It’s sad to say but ray ray is wrong. Listen to Good Kid M.A.A.D city and tell me rap isn’t good. Or TOBAP. Or harry mack. Or Mr. Morale. Or literally any song by MF DOOM. OR LITERALLY ANY SONG PRODUCED BY THE ALCHEMIST.
@@progpogs that’s why I bring up whether or not y’all like it because ultimately it seems like most people who say rap isn’t music are just saying “mainstream rap sucks”. Which may or may not be true, I’ll with hold my opinion on that because it isn’t relevant apparently, but either way it’s still music…
@@progpogs do you even know anything about hip hop? Like I have ate shat and breathed rap for 7-8 years now and you just pop in only ever hearing the mainstream radio and Tik tok shit and say it’s not music. Edit: I realize now that you’re not gunna have much to say so just listen to a Harry Mack freestyle or a Kendrick song and pay attention to the lyrics.
@@gabrielbevis1961 I respectfully disagree. Rap today continues to evolve and get more complex. Rappers like Kendrick Lamar are able to tell stories and provide societal commentary in their lyricism while also creating beats and sampled hooks that make the listening experience itself really enjoyable. I think of rap as being a lot like jazz or country music. People love to trash it but once they give it an honest chance and listen to the best of what the genre has to offer, they either end up becoming fans or at least have a greater appreciation for the style.
@@j0ndav1s Most people who play instruments, especially guitar and banjo, would argue that. You might not like the things he did musically, but he was an exceptional player.
While rap shares similarities with poetry due to its emphasis on rhythm, rhyme, and storytelling, it also incorporates musical elements such as beats, melodies, and instrumental accompaniment. Additionally, rap artists often use various vocal techniques and musical arrangements to create a unique auditory experience for the listener. YOUR OLD 👴👵
@@Saintace873 Yes, it does, as does theater and other arts, it incorporates music, yet it is NOT music. And yes, I'm probably old and I'm anything but a virgin, but thanks for the compliment, don't worry you'll get old too. And let me tell you that rap is even quite a bit older than I am. 🤣.
@@mmh7980 yes you are old 👴not only that but mentally as well which I believe is a choice so i will not join that but as to rap being music and not ONLY art understand In addition to rhyme and rhythm, rap music encompasses various musical elements such as instrumentation, production techniques, and lyrical content. While rap is primarily driven by vocal delivery, it often incorporates musical elements such as sampled beats, synthesized melodies, and live instrumentation. These elements contribute to the overall sonic landscape of rap songs and add depth to the music. I hope I educated you
„Singing is not music, its fast rhytmic talking, instrumentals are also not music they are just tools causing air to resonate in specific ways, also i am very smart and have 5 million reddit points, mom where are my chicken tendies!?!?!”
@Coom Lord, yes, but they were playing it live before that. Jerry had some live shows and rumor has it, he rode that rails at Public Enemy's first tour.
Lolol, you clearly don’t play any instruments. Dr Dre’s music is as basic as it gets. So so so so simple. It’s not music it’s literally single beats looped
@@Man-cv5ws yet he’s produced some of the most amazing tracks in rap history. Dude played the piano before he got into rap music and even played it during one of the Super Bowl half time shows I believe. He’s far from a hood rat too. Dude is pretty classy.
Would we consider singing vocal delivery only? I’d argue they’re equal it’s just singing is generally slower with less words. But the main issue I have with this is people not recognizing the music under the rap has to be made by someone. Wu tang, mf doom, Mac Miller, Eminem, Outkast, Jurassic 5, AOTP, all people and groups who made their own music to rap over. And I’d you think about the era of rap he’s referencing (today is a lot of digital and live stuff and there’s a huge difference between Flatbush zombies who use live instruments and digital stuff vs the people who use just pro tools) there was almost a pure necessity to create your own music. There weren’t giant digital sound libraries or Fiver to have someone whip up a beat. It was always a combination of sampling (which people like doom and J dilla turned into a form of art and composition) and live instruments. At the very least I can think of probably 20 rappers who taught themselves to play piano the same way Elvis did. Tyler the creator for one. It’s just about how much you really want to admit goes into it. Proof - Forgive me ,which is ironically on his album Searching For Jerry Garcia, Bust Rhymes - Hurt You, where they might not have the best lyrics but rap along a classical piano, or a club hit DMX- Party up I’d say all have good examples of how your vocals have to be used beyond “talking”. You singing in a choppier way. And then the Tiny Desk of Mac Miller where they do his music live as basically a jazz set.
And as far as writing note on a paper there’s just too many syllables in rap to do that like with singing. But that doesn’t mean something like Hamilton doesn’t write the syllables note for note and it doesn’t mean rappers don’t have to do that. Their words still have to be placed in an order that makes musical sense otherwise you’ll get clashing notes and rhythms that don’t match like any other for of vocal delivery.
@@motionblurofhappy7804 I don’t think he’s saying it’s not an art form that should be appreciated. He’s just saying in his opinion it’s a different art form than “music”. Like poetry isn’t music, but it’s just as valid of an art form.
@@ikeu6433 I don’t see the harmonizing in hip hop. Of course there might be an exception (Bone Thugs is the obvious, but they don’t really harmonize, they just rap at the same time) but if that is the case then it would only be amended to say 98% of rap doesn’t fit the definition. Generally, music is something people think of as being played by a group of people and the sounds they make create a harmony. Maybe it’s just semantics, but I understand what he’s saying and why. I would tend to agree with him, but I know it’s a tricky one. Edit to take back what I said about Bone Thugs, I seem to remember times in some songs where they would harmonize together. It’s been a long time since I’ve listened to their music. This is a good excuse to go back and listen again, I liked them a lot in high school.
Before asking if rap is music, you need to define music. Most people would have different answers but the most fundamental seems to be sound in patterns (whether that's pitch or rhythm or both.) Then you ask if rap music fits into that definition, which it definitely does, I do not need to give an example as most contain patterns of pitch and rhythm. Although a large amount of rap vocals are monotoned/not varying in pitch, there is a huge range where rap vocals change pitch melodically, exactly like singing. Rap broke the boundaries of what Garcia defined as music, instead of changing his definition, he shut it out.
I’ll never understand people hating on different genres of music simply because they don’t understand it. I love all kinds of music and my life is rich having listened to it all.
@@DanceOfTheDawn5963 I listen. I'm in the business. Rock is dead. Rap the better stuff is still ego and victim, poor me crap in a fruity loop program. The only things that will last are true blues, traditional country, folk and actual rap artist that can also play and sample
a person can write a rap hit with literally no musical knowledge. all you have to know is language. period. rap artists are not nearly as musically talented as musicians who play instruments and can read and write music. you have to actually learn an instrument.
@@billshasta5296 The same can be said with singers, but you won't make that argument. Song writing, pacing, and cadence mean nothing in music I guess. Creativity and vision don't mean much either. Just say you hate black people.
It's important to think about things before you say them. Rap is spoken word. Hip hop contains rap and is definitely music. That's undeniable. There's a big difference between a rap and a hip hop song.
What is considered ‘rap’ has always included musical support - percussion of some sort, synthesizers, turntables, live instrumentation as well. And this musical support has been groundbreaking and extremely innovative in many cases. To say “rap is not music” is narrow minded and certainly does not tell the story. Garcia consider himself a sage, and it was important for him to make declarative statements.
@@dwightperkins7972 It's just his opinion well over 30 yrs ago! SMH my opinion also today but, to each his own happy place man, ya know what I mean? ✌+ 💘
My first show was 87 when i was 17. That was before the hit Touch of Grey brought in a younger generation. After that the shows got even bigger and a new generation of deadhead was born.
Rap absolutely has musical elements. There is rap that qualifies as music, and there is rap that doesn't. But the textbook definition of music is "sound that contains rhythm, melody, and harmony," so some rap absolutely is music. But before bashing Jerry for this, keep in mind that that he died in 1995. Rap hadn't evolved much by 1995 compared to where it is in 2023, so his picture of rap was much smaller than ours is today.
Does rap got musical notes with sheet music? Fuck No! It is talking not MUSIC! PRESENTLY! I will give you it is poetry with some great artists who put to a great beat, rarely, IT MUST KILL ALL OF YOU RAPPERS THAT EMINEM WAS AND IS IS THE BEST RAP ARTIST THAT EVER LIVED! HE WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO GO UP & RAP ABOUT HIS SAD HOME, POVERTY & BULLIED HISTORY BY YOU!! HE IS PROFOUNDLY TALENTED AT THE ACT OF POETRY & THE BEAT OF THE STREET!!!!!! ❤ ✌
There is music with rap within it. The Rolling Stones song "Shattered" is a great example, especially since it came out well before rap was its own genre.
I guess you didn’t understand what he was saying. Rap IS NOT music!!! It doesn’t matter if there were some rappers featured in different songs…. It’s still not music itself. RAPISCRAP!!!
@@kevinchisolm1847 in rap music the rapper himself is only a piece of the music. If poetry is recited rhythmically and accompanied by instrumental music as one experience, then it is a song. Music. Period. Thats like saying that a drummer is not a musician because he only has rythem. Its all semantics.
@@fbomb_928 I guess he is suggesting that the vocals are not music. But rather poetry accompanied by music. Which on some level isn’t particularly wrong. But at what point does it become part of the song?
@@fbomb_928 music is sounds produced by musical instruments (or other instrument that replicate the sound of musical instruments). Rap doesn't fit in this definition.
He's Not wrong And he's Not disparaging Rap either he's solely Saying rapper's aren't musicians in the instrument sense, rapper's are Orator's with Extensive vocabulary and Quick Thinking, great Narrators , rhyming Syllables etc It's a Skill without a Doubt .
What about the millions of singers who dont play instruments? I dont see a real tangible difference as a musician and singer myself, who really isnt very great at rapping lol
@@whorror_punxrappers are not singers, that's a fact. When some rapper try to sing in a rap song that doesn't make him a singer, that makes that song a rap/pop song, like Kendrick Lamar or Kanye (flashing lights) or Pharrell etc. a SINGER: Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, Bruno Mars, the ones on instrument bands like Metallica James or blink182 singer and so. What you said is like "yhea dude Migos are singers" and the fact is they aren't singers, they just talk on a trap beat. Rappers are not musicians, they even do samples, and make a new song digitally, that's not making music, that's making a track with loops of a song that already exist made by real musicians with musical education
So, you don't need to play instruments to be a singer/musician, what you need to have to be a singer /musician (not a rapper) is musical education from a voice coach, a singer coach, he will teach you how to use your voice musically (theoricaly) good to be a singer. Rappers doesn't need music theory, singers do.
This reminds me of when Roger Ebert said video games aren't art. There's something about boomer men having a specific definition of something and sticking with it just because, even when logic proves it wrong.
His definition of music is a bit different than what we have today. I could imagine he's thinking learning instrument as music. Learning music theory over time, becoming more familiar chord progressions and the movement through music. Rap all you need is a laptop and a good mic.
@@topsyturvyy4558 George Harrison and Ringo have both stated before that they aren't particularly good musicians cause while they have great talent and understanding of when to and not to do something they didn't/ don't practice much so they wouldn't regard themselves as great musicians because of that
@@topsyturvyy4558 and yet they still understood it and without realizing it used it in every song they wrote. Because that's how playing an instrument works.
Rap is a vocal style, hip hop is the genre where rap is the primary vocal style used. Sometimes other genres add rapping to it as well, so rap is not a genre but a vocal style. Just like screaming and yelling
@Fallen OffTop 808 bass sounds are incredibly boring. Can't you offer him something better to be bad at? I know, I know - all tracks forever must be made with an 808...
I've been playing guitar for 38 years and new groove is still something you get everyday. Heavy metal, funk, smooth jazz, classical, acustic jingles, coffee shop chords, arpeggio tapping. And some other 💩 that I don't like or listen to. But it's endless. Music is everything. There's nothing else on earth like it!
Numbers related to math equal infinity. Sorry ole chap, music only goes to key G. It does end. As it has. Rap is the disease to our society like its promoters.
the difference between rap and other forms of music is like the difference between drums and guitar. one is rythmatic and the other is melodic. obviously rap would be the rhymatic one. a popular rap artist by the name of tech 9 once mentioned how the way he raps is similiar to that of playing bongos. and then of course you have the beat behind it which can be comprised of various sounds and melodies. also it's important to mention that just like drums, there is a tonality to rapping. you can't rap without holding some sort of pitch, and that pitch can be adjusted to achieve different tones. try simply talking over a beat and see how that goes lol, it won't work too well.
@@robertbloom4424 it's like playing the bongos if there was no bongos and multiple instruments being played at once because hiphop artists use instruments too you fucking idiot
Rap is an can be very poetic. Real lyricists are celebrated for their word play cadence , meraphors and story telling abilities. When Nas made rewind everyones mind was blown cause he told a story backwards while rapping and no one at the time ever got that creative, he pushed the boundaries.
Which half are possibly talking about? Every sentence of this rings so true its not even possible to have an argument against. Go listen to JayZ and jerk yourself clown. **edited to say go JERK YOURSELF instead of the autocorrected version.***
This would be a great intro for a rap song btw.
Edit: thanks for the likes!
Now someone put this on a beat!!
Classic rap. Sample someone else's work
Sounds like it’d be a great intro for an immortal technique song
I feel like Ice cube would do it first
Deal.
@@thundercptts1452hip-hop, actually but no one is perfect. 🤓🖖🏿
now here's a 17 minute guitar solo
Addendum: I actually like the Dead and I'm just goofing on guitar players because I am one now but started as a drummer.
Guitar solos can be songs unto themselves with different melodies, rhythms behind them, and harmonies with other instruments at the same time. A solo doesn't mean no other instruments are present whatsoever and the guitarist is just playing fast. Look up the solo from the Spirit Carries On and see if that is anywhere near what you are implying here.
@@SefniAsheforrgood luck trying to make sense or be logical to the minions
@@SefniAsheforr the spirit carries on? damn dude if that's your idea of the pinnacle of guitar solos i envy the musical journey you have laid out before you, there's some shit out there that'll knock your socks off
@@methyod I'm talking about phrasing and emotion, not just technical mastery. Solos that are not just crazy over the top shredding like the initial comment was implying.
Trust me, I've listened to a ton of Prog and other crazy stuff.
@@SefniAsheforr he’s making fun that a long guitar solo sucks ass and that’s what jerry seems as great music but dismissing rap
"LSD & Cocaine are not drugs...they have effects and will get you high...but they're not drugs" Jerry Garcia
@tesom it's a sarcastic joke, not a poor example. Jerry Garcia was a known hardcore drug addict & his music was heavily influenced by them. Yet, he had the nerve to call something different...not music. Never could stand this guy
Brilliant comment 😂
Sorry what he said hurt you, but he's right. Music has a strict definition with a mathematical foundation. I studied music theory all my life, but I couldn't rap a word if my life depended on it. Rap is poetry and it is art, but it's not music.
@@BitwiseMobile how is rap not music? at what point do you draw the line where something stops being music and becomes something else? is it not convenient and sensible to just accept rap music as music and call it a day?
yea but rap is not music
"Rap is Not Music, it's talking." Well rapped, Jerry.
Oh the irony! It's the dude from The Grateful Dead FFS!
@@davidmorgan6896 Rap sucks.. get over it! 😊
@@americanjones500 Not all rap 'sucks'. I'm very much in the prog and fusion camps, but I appreciate that some rap is good. I also see that a lot of classic rock is way overrated.
@@davidmorgan6896 I'm talking about many styles of music!! Rock,R.B, country,soul,blues,pop... Point is musicianship. Rap doesn't do that. They sample (steal) a good sound and spew nonsense!! That's like eating fastfood garbage. I rather have home cooked!! Get me!?
@@americanjones500 I get that you haven't done much to explore the world of hip-hop.
"Rap is not music. It has rhythm and it has meter and let me just trail off of this sentence because it's starting to disprove my own point... but it's not music!"
You're taking the term "rap" as meaning a genre of "music" whereas he's talking about it in what it really is. To rap literally means to talk. It's a much older slang word meaning to talk that was used waaaay before it was used to describe a genre of "music".
@@General_Junkie in what world do you live in where rap isn't a genre of music and is a synonym for speaking? even if they're not singing(which alot of rappers do) there is songs that literally have no words, but the only difference is that it was made by white dudes
@@General_Junkie Respectfully, I don't think that's what he means but okay
Music is defined by rhythm, melody and harmony. He didn't disprove his own point. Rhythm by itself isn't music.
@@electromancer2645 yes it is. all sounds have a note, which is why a drum is still tuned to notes like any other tension based instrument. A speaking voice still has melodic properties. Is a Buddy Rich drum solo not music?
Jerry Garcia: “Now Lil B on the other hand…”
based
based
Yeah. That's trashy music, but still music
@@alejandrovillalba3143 lil b is the best human ever existed. hes not trash
@@3ballsinyourmouthI’m God is the only valid Lil B tune. other than that L L L L L L
Why has someone not sampled this??
Jerry's kids need the money
I doubt Jerry’s estate would give permission, thank God, to use his spoken scripture in that form of……um, art?!
@@SaybleuThe greatest form of art on 🌎 right now, been that way for the past 33 years
Because it would prove Jerry’s point.
@@biggray2 nah
"Music is generally defined as the art of arranging sound to create some combination of form, harmony, melody, rhythm, or otherwise expressive content"
Thanks you for that. Jerry’s ignorance and prejudice here is surprising.
Idk what’s harmonic about putting the same trap music over the same lyrics
@@trollnope8390 Yes, you’re right. Every rap song is exactly the same and there is no variety.
@@mikxly8147 quite literally yes… especially the mainstream rappers the especially talentless (yes I’m talking about Kanye) same “pussy ass money” rhyming schemes with the same trap music
@@trollnope8390 Do you have a mental disability?
Very few people know that Jerry's last words were "John Mayer sucks".
🤣🤪 You're funny.
@@mikesimonian484
strings > mayer
@@endorphinstudios2023 What strings? The guitarist Strings?
@@endorphinstudios2023 But was Rice better than Strings?? Pffft. I've played for almost three decades and real musicians don't play the "who's better than" game. That's bullshit.
@@alexspringer7666 How would you know that? You speak for all musicians?
“Wu tang clan ain’t nothing to f*ck with”. -Aristotle
Wearing my Wu-Tang shirt right now. Oh baby I like it raw
They come from a different, a more. Enlightening era and were MCs.. Not rappers.
@@idrathergetaidsthangetwoke9145 when I hear people say rap I generally assume they are conflating a group of genres together. Maybe I’m wrong
😂
Garcia is bigger than Wu Tang way bigger he been around for over 50 years
This is coming from a guy that grew up in a generation where his parents would tell him that rock ‘n’ roll wasn’t music. All four of my grandparents thought that rock ‘n’ roll was nothing but noise.
He has a point though, rappers aren’t musicians. They write rhymes and other people do the rest of the work.
@@pimpsongaming6089 A musician is a person who composes, conducts, or performs music. According to the United States Employment Service, "musician" is a general term used to designate one who follows music as a profession.
Actual beatnik society
@@Builderdrone but aside from the lyrics what does the rapper contribute? The actual musicians involved with rap music are the producers that create the backing tracks. It takes a lot of time and practice to be proficient with an instrument. Ask yourself how long lil xan had to practice and hone his craft to become a rapper.
@@pimpsongaming6089 first of all, to say they aren’t providing anything is bs. you try rapping like pop smoke or kendrick, you can’t. writing rhymes and lyrics is a skill and to deny it is silly. second of all, pretty much all rappers are involved in the production of their beats, if they don’t make them themselves. And that argument is void anyways considering how many artists have a whole team of ghost writers and producers essentially making the music for them. it’s way easier to make a good pop song than it is to make a good rap song.
I feel like people who don't listen to a certain genre shouldn't comment on that genre since the only knowledge that they have of the genre is what's popular. Rap seemed repetitive to me when I was younger only because i heard the mainstream songs, but once i dug deeper into rap, it ended up being my favorite genre. All it takes to understand something is to do research. Being ignorant to something at first glance creates stubbornness. We have the devices we have now for a reason.
I listen to this and it throws me back to when the same thing was said about Rock and Roll. They never learn....
I love you for this!!!
But he's right
@@MarioKL Go back to troll school. You're still an amatuer.
little different. they never said it wasn't. music
@@Oldscule62 nice try, Dunning-Krueger
Hey witch doctor, give us the magic words
All right, you go ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
All right
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting ting walla walla bang bang
Doh, doh, doh, doh
I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you
Doh, doh, doh, doh
I told the witch doctor, I was in love with you
Doh, doh, doh, doh
And than the witch doctor, he told me what to do
He told me
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang wall awalla bang bang
Doh, doh, doh, doh
I told the witch doctor, you didn't love me true
Doh, doh, doh, doh
I told the witch doctor, you didn't love me nice
Doh, doh, doh, doh
And than the witch doctor, he gave me this advice
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
You can keep your love from me just like you were a miser
And I'll admit it wasn't very smart (ey-ey-ey-ey)
So I went out to find myself a guy that's so much wiser
And he told me the way to win your heart
Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh
Ooh ee ooh ah ah (doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh)
Ooh ee ooh ah ah (Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh)
Ooh ee ooh ah ah (Doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh, doh)
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Come on and
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bing bang
Ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang walla walla bang bang
This guy's been dead for almost 30 years.
"Drums aren't a musical instrument, it creates a beat, it has rhythm, but it's not music."
@@Fuzzirahahahaha
daaahahaha
All music is Rhythm. So what a FN re re. Matter of fact Time itself is Rhythm.
"Anyways... You fellas want to share a sheet of acid with me?"
A sheet ?? Ouff
Worst trip I've had was 1 hit at a dead show. Way too much acid
As a matter of fact, the last time I seen Jerry Garcia in concert I had dropped a tab or two of Windowpane. Always a great show.
@@reillymoore3257 meth?
@@bradsanders407 No, Windowpane was actually acid - it got it's name because the tiny clear squares resembled a pane of window glass. It was pretty popular back then, especially at Rock concerts such as the Gratefull Dead and other bands of that era.
I feel like rap is a form of poetry it's rhyming with a story that's put to a beat. It's it own form
Wow that was a great rap Jerry!
Lmfaooo
Very underrated comment 😂
Yeah!!!
But it wasn't music.
Tha hook waz fire, beat needs work
@@antoinekendall739 then why are artists like kendrick lamar and little simz so much better at it than everyone else?
“Thank you sir. Now could you please tell me your order? You’re holding up the drive thru..”
😂💪🏾❤
This had me crying 😂. You win the internet today sir
😄 🤣 😂
LMFAO. I salute you, sir.
The less funny version of "Sir, this is a Wendy's"
RAP=Rhythm and Poetry
Retards attempting poetry
@@spleen8834 What are you 10 and just learned a new word?
I love Jerry's natural talking voice it sounded like a family member almost
Great point. Like somebodies uncle. lol
I think it was uncle John
I always thought he sounded like a Kebbler elf. Huge Jerry fan, and a lover of Rap. But I always thought his speaking voice was so unexpected when you compare it to how soulful his singing was.
He has a horrific nasally annoying voice you're nuts.
Someone edit this speech with a trap beat under it
I'm the 50th like of this comment and should be the 50,000th. Gonna try to do that...
Done! 😂 it might not be great but I did just this! 😂😂😂
I think thats the point he was trying to get across.
That would just prove his point
On it. Suscribe
I like bands and the chemistry that is able to come from a collection of people playing different instruments
My sentiments exactly!
Nothing better to than real musicians and song writers getting together to create MAGIC!
@@slinkystarfirelight5968 jerry garcia in this video here, and his band the grateful dead, were amazing at this, the improvision between the members during live performances was spectacular. They could play in perfect harmony with each other for hours
Like rush
@@jfromstate8581 brilliant
ua-cam.com/video/EYYdQB0mkEU/v-deo.html
@@jimfish1595 favorite song actually haha
A lot of R&B artists, soul singers and funk bands felt the same way (Prince and Rick James for example) but eventually got forced to experiment to be commercially viable.
That still doesn't make rap artistically relevabt nor culturally valuable.
Show me links where they said rap wasn't music. You're a liar.
@idrathergetaidsthangetwoke9145 neither does a heroin addict near his death saying it isn't music tough guy.
This interview was from over 30yrs ago and Jerry was a boomer even then, literally! I have no doubts that given the chance to evolve his opinion on this subject through more and more exposure to the genre over the years he would have revised his proclamation seen in this clip. He definitely would have come to recognize Rap as well deserving of the classification “music.”🎶
With all respect, man. Jerry was exposed to rap from the late 70's through mid 90's. Plenty of time to form his opinion, which he did. It is what it is.
I felt the same way. But I liked straight outta compton in 1989 in my college dorm and my opinion started to change a little. I started actually listening instead of blocking my ears to some of the music.
Me too. I feel when Rap began to get popular in the 80’s it wasn’t music yet. Then Dre and snoop and all them turned it into music
@@bigd5080 DAMN!!! It was the opposite!!! Garbage 88 on!!!
@@americanjones500 Really?!
Interesting.
@@americanjones500 even Wu Tang Clan???
Poetry can still move you. Can yall not pick up what he's putting down?
Damn imagine when Jerry finds out there’s music with no singing in it 😮
not made by "rappers" there isn't lol
that's called an INSTUMENTAL-- & it's totally ALL music , meathead.
???
@@davidataturk4357 obviously cause they are rappers. They rap. You're thinking of producers like Kanye and Dre, in which case yeah they do have instrumental tracks too.
@@davidataturk4357 it's fine to not like rap, but saying that it's not music just makes you seem really stupid.
He is 100% right. I’ll admit that back in the day I was a PE and De La Soul fan. But talking over a beat is not music. More like poetry than anything else.
Producing a rap beat is music, it takes intricate knowledge of phrasing and keys, and emcees operate discs as an instrument. And regardless, rap is a serious talent and the art is devalued when you try to define what it is. You think it’s “music” to use a cannon as percussion in a symphonic piece? Tchaikovsky certainly seemed to think so. You think it’s music for Grateful Dead, Garcia’s band, to play drums and space, a cacophony of strikes and synths, for 30 minutes? I can believe it is, same as I believe rap is.
@loststylus7641 RAP is not music its TALKING ......ffs get over it
So you were a fan of De La Soul yet you agree that rap is not something you can improve upon? 🤔
If singing is music, rap is music.
@@DougieNelson82 you seem to care a lot about what is and isn’t music for somebody telling others to get over it. Why do you feel the need to label rap differently?
I used to argue with a coworker all the time who loved ambient/noise/drone stuff, and I would scream that it isn't music because there's no rythym or melody. It took me years to realize that, if it successfully communicates a feeling they were trying to convey, then the music did it's job. I do agree with Jerry on his underlying principles on rap not being real music, but on a definitive level, it's hard for me to say it isn't music either...
The voice is also an instrument. So i see it as being music
He’s never heard of the talking blues? Bob Dylan is a master of this. It’s Alright Ma is a good example of this and it is in essence “Rap.”
Dylan can't really sing . So it's a bad example
@@rickybobby9886 Rappers can’t sing either. That’s why they rap.
@@bderrick4944 not true some rappers can sing. Lauren Hill
wrong answer,who is Dylan??
That's it....I'm never eating his ice cream again!!! Lol
🤣
Yes you will LOL
By classic definition he's right
By ALL definition
Thats totally not true. Middle class imbeciles alert. You may have tried hard to sound profound but you like fools. Rythmic vocal patterns over a beat is totally music. Im sure the old heads of the 1920s and 1930s probably thought Jazz wasnt music because it was mainly improvisation?
music is arranging patterned sounds
By no definition is he right. Rap has music underneath the mc. And even if it were simply drums as the foundation under the mc, it still would be music as music does not require a melody to qualify as music.
@@CrimeThinkBeats infact melody/harmony is rhythm to begin with. jerry just arbitrarily excluded a genre he didn’t like cause ???
Rap is like creole, it’s a mix of music and style and rhythm to communicate a message
That's a fascinating comparison, well done
The message: Get money, fuck bitches.
a real GOAT once said "Once you free your mind
About a concept of harmony and music being correct
You can do whatever you want"
Giovanni
Jerry didn't need any help freeing his mind
@@TheOrangeRoad sure sure, Lysergic acid diethylamide
@@SouLo_47 limited slip differential
❤️🎵
I now have Jerry Garcia in a pouch & I got it from his brother, Barry Garcia!!!
Well I just saw an official Fully man!
Jerry Garcia In a pouch- maaan.
Don’t forget the funyuns
That's Andy Garcia's brother.... 😏
My issue with calling rap music is the fact that the rappers get all the credit for being amazing musicians - in reality the producer of the music is the one who is the great musician. The guy that actually plays instruments to make the songs before they are rapped on deserves way more credit. Rappers only do 5% and the producer does the other 95%
when your grandkids done did every rap tiktok and your tired of it 😂😭💀
👈When your kid dropped out of Junior high school.
From the golden age of discourse when you could take a stand and propose your opinion.
You literally still can. You're confusing receiving criticism with not being able to voice your opinion. You can say what you want, but other people are also allowed to disagree with you.
@@billyusher4907 Others were allowed to disagree with you back then too
@@billyusher4907 the internet hadn't created the retarded mob mentality most young people have these days though so people would actually think for themselves, not just repeat what's popular online
@@666sk8erguy Exactly. So what's all the complaining about?
@@billyusher4907 people not thinking for themselves
Like Buddy the Elf said “Singing is just talking really loud.”
Don’t agree with your dumb logic. Not everyone can sing. Everyone can rap.
@@kimijonghighball9626 spit some bars then.
@@anwkydong5992 rap is wack and your mom smokes crack... I guess i'm a musician now, and your moms a cow
@@fucuszullanti7877 Bars. If I drum on pots and pans with wooden spoons am I not a drummer?
@@GearZNet What’s your point? Haven’t you seen those street performers who use buckets and trash can lids to drum?
He's allowed to have an opinion you don't like.
Seriously. I don’t necessarily agree with him but I understand where he is coming from
❤ I like his opinion and I 100% agree with it
YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY ME MONEY TO LISTEN TO IT AND A LOT OF MONEY TO PRETEND TO LIKE IT❤
@@donhagerty5669 fair enough
@@bennybigiron8471 IT IS GOOD TO KNOW THAT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE PERSON ON UA-cam THAT ALLOW SOMEBODY TO HAVE A OPINION DIFFERENT FROM THEIRS
@@donhagerty5669 yeah I don't agree with Jerry on this opinion but i love his music a lot better than I do rap or hip hop so I'm just willing to let opinions be what they are
Ray Charles said something very similar in a interview with Bob Costas
Then ray Charles doesn’t know rap was literally derived from jazz and soul. It’s sad to say but ray ray is wrong. Listen to Good Kid M.A.A.D city and tell me rap isn’t good. Or TOBAP. Or harry mack. Or Mr. Morale. Or literally any song by MF DOOM. OR LITERALLY ANY SONG PRODUCED BY THE ALCHEMIST.
@@progpogs what is it then bro? It has instruments, it has a focus on rhythm but it has harmony and melody. What else could it be???
@@progpogs that’s why I bring up whether or not y’all like it because ultimately it seems like most people who say rap isn’t music are just saying “mainstream rap sucks”. Which may or may not be true, I’ll with hold my opinion on that because it isn’t relevant apparently, but either way it’s still music…
@@progpogs do you even know anything about hip hop? Like I have ate shat and breathed rap for 7-8 years now and you just pop in only ever hearing the mainstream radio and Tik tok shit and say it’s not music.
Edit: I realize now that you’re not gunna have much to say so just listen to a Harry Mack freestyle or a Kendrick song and pay attention to the lyrics.
I don't believe it until I hear it myself.
Jerry and I agree. There is limited bandwidth in Rap,but not in music.
so,... words have limited bandwidth?? It is the predominate form of communication.
Whole lotta 👴 energy in this one
Whole lotta raysist energy in your comment.
No it's just his opinion.
Whole lotta 🐵 in yours
Buddy didn’t even say anything. “I can’t imagine there’s room to grow” as if he’s going to be the one to see it
Oink oink 🐷 🐷 🐷 that's all i hear.
Extremely rare Jerry L
@@gabrielbevis1961no
@@gabrielbevis1961no
@@gabrielbevis1961maybe you just haven’t found any you like yet
@@jacksonsherman3930 I should've specified today's rap sucks. In all honesty, I do like to listen to Outkast and the song 'Regulate.'
@@gabrielbevis1961 I respectfully disagree. Rap today continues to evolve and get more complex. Rappers like Kendrick Lamar are able to tell stories and provide societal commentary in their lyricism while also creating beats and sampled hooks that make the listening experience itself really enjoyable. I think of rap as being a lot like jazz or country music. People love to trash it but once they give it an honest chance and listen to the best of what the genre has to offer, they either end up becoming fans or at least have a greater appreciation for the style.
Being good at music doesn’t mean you know everything
Jerry Garcia knows music though.
Yeah, but you know some things about music.
...and Jerry isn't even good at music! Poor guy.
@@JohnDoe-od7ye Jerry Garcia knows some music. No one knows music, and that’s for the better
@@j0ndav1s Most people who play instruments, especially guitar and banjo, would argue that. You might not like the things he did musically, but he was an exceptional player.
I agree, rap can be an art form, like poetry or theater, but it is still NOT MUSIC.
While rap shares similarities with poetry due to its emphasis on rhythm, rhyme, and storytelling, it also incorporates musical elements such as beats, melodies, and instrumental accompaniment. Additionally, rap artists often use various vocal techniques and musical arrangements to create a unique auditory experience for the listener. YOUR OLD 👴👵
@@Saintace873 Yes, it does, as does theater and other arts, it incorporates music, yet it is NOT music. And yes, I'm probably old and I'm anything but a virgin, but thanks for the compliment, don't worry you'll get old too. And let me tell you that rap is even quite a bit older than I am. 🤣.
@@Saintace873 Hello, I'm old enough to tell you that it's not "your old" but "you are old", or you'll get old being a poor ignorant....
@@mmh7980 yes you are old 👴not only that but mentally as well which I believe is a choice so i will not join that but as to rap being music and not ONLY art understand In addition to rhyme and rhythm, rap music encompasses various musical elements such as instrumentation, production techniques, and lyrical content.
While rap is primarily driven by vocal delivery, it often incorporates musical elements such as sampled beats, synthesized melodies, and live instrumentation. These elements contribute to the overall sonic landscape of rap songs and add depth to the music.
I hope I educated you
@@kimokinium4892 are you calling me ignorant i really don’t understand what you’re trying to say
"Please don't dominate the rap Jack...if you've got nothing new to say"
-Jerry Garcia
Actually ....
Robert Hunter
@@stayingsober7802
yes indeed!...Robert Hunter and Jerry Garcia share writing credits for New Speedway Boogie
@@B_Walters Correct. Hunter wrote lyrics, Garcia wrote the music.
Well played sir.
Rick Rubin: “Hold my beer”
its not music
@@billydakid9814 By definition rap and hip-hop is music. Give a definition that wouldn't include rap.
@@RedRabbitEntertainment its talking
@@RedRabbitEntertainment There is no melody or harmony mainly only rhythm and talking .. its poetry if anything
@@billydakid9814 Straight up false lol
„Singing is not music, its fast rhytmic talking, instrumentals are also not music they are just tools causing air to resonate in specific ways, also i am very smart and have 5 million reddit points, mom where are my chicken tendies!?!?!”
You need to be educated by a few friends in the hood you know what I mean
Gimme a Break!!
Jerry is right though
It ain't music until the rappers start droping😂
Jerry was actually a big fan of NWA. He teased Straight out of Compton during Terrapin jam Shoreline 87
Only jerry could incorporate that
Umphrey’s mcgee has too and they pull it off like no otherrrrrrr
He was teasing a song before it was released!?!? Far out he was amazing
I wonder how many heads are digging for that shoreline show...
Hehe ✌️😊✌️
@Coom Lord, yes, but they were playing it live before that. Jerry had some live shows and rumor has it, he rode that rails at Public Enemy's first tour.
This is why Dr. Dre was so influential. Dude didn’t just come up with lyrics. He was all about the music behind the words.
Facts!!
Lolol, you clearly don’t play any instruments. Dr Dre’s music is as basic as it gets. So so so so simple. It’s not music it’s literally single beats looped
@@johnstamos8403 well they sounded great and made him lots of money and is loved by many. If it’s so easy and simple why is there just one Dr. Dre?
What instrument does Dr Dre play lol. Just an ignorant hood rat that likes to rhyme
@@Man-cv5ws yet he’s produced some of the most amazing tracks in rap history. Dude played the piano before he got into rap music and even played it during one of the Super Bowl half time shows I believe. He’s far from a hood rat too. Dude is pretty classy.
At first he had the ingredients of a good point, and I was like “let him cook…” and then he shat all over the ingredients and called us to dinner.
None didn't liar
Well Jerry rap does have that space for getting better, but the improvement is not in the music, but in the rapping itself, improvisation talking.
he’s not wrong. He’s talking about actual music, you know notes on a paper, rap is a style of vocal delivery, that’s all
Would we consider singing vocal delivery only? I’d argue they’re equal it’s just singing is generally slower with less words. But the main issue I have with this is people not recognizing the music under the rap has to be made by someone. Wu tang, mf doom, Mac Miller, Eminem, Outkast, Jurassic 5, AOTP, all people and groups who made their own music to rap over. And I’d you think about the era of rap he’s referencing (today is a lot of digital and live stuff and there’s a huge difference between Flatbush zombies who use live instruments and digital stuff vs the people who use just pro tools) there was almost a pure necessity to create your own music. There weren’t giant digital sound libraries or Fiver to have someone whip up a beat. It was always a combination of sampling (which people like doom and J dilla turned into a form of art and composition) and live instruments. At the very least I can think of probably 20 rappers who taught themselves to play piano the same way Elvis did. Tyler the creator for one. It’s just about how much you really want to admit goes into it. Proof - Forgive me ,which is ironically on his album Searching For Jerry Garcia, Bust Rhymes - Hurt You, where they might not have the best lyrics but rap along a classical piano, or a club hit DMX- Party up I’d say all have good examples of how your vocals have to be used beyond “talking”. You singing in a choppier way. And then the Tiny Desk of Mac Miller where they do his music live as basically a jazz set.
And as far as writing note on a paper there’s just too many syllables in rap to do that like with singing. But that doesn’t mean something like Hamilton doesn’t write the syllables note for note and it doesn’t mean rappers don’t have to do that. Their words still have to be placed in an order that makes musical sense otherwise you’ll get clashing notes and rhythms that don’t match like any other for of vocal delivery.
@@motionblurofhappy7804 I don’t think he’s saying it’s not an art form that should be appreciated. He’s just saying in his opinion it’s a different art form than “music”. Like poetry isn’t music, but it’s just as valid of an art form.
@@ikeu6433 I don’t see the harmonizing in hip hop. Of course there might be an exception (Bone Thugs is the obvious, but they don’t really harmonize, they just rap at the same time) but if that is the case then it would only be amended to say 98% of rap doesn’t fit the definition. Generally, music is something people think of as being played by a group of people and the sounds they make create a harmony. Maybe it’s just semantics, but I understand what he’s saying and why. I would tend to agree with him, but I know it’s a tricky one.
Edit to take back what I said about Bone Thugs, I seem to remember times in some songs where they would harmonize together. It’s been a long time since I’ve listened to their music. This is a good excuse to go back and listen again, I liked them a lot in high school.
@George Hale The beat in most rap actually has harmony, as far as I understand. So it fits the definition.
Kinda surprised someone like Jerry said this. I figured he was one of those artists who could find something to love about any style of music.
He’s old oh well
hes an oldhead and oldheads hate rap
He didn’t say he didn’t like it he said it’s not music
He had a boomer moment
@@viktorvaughn408 That’s basically saying that it sucks and it’s bad
Now here is a guy thats never listen to bone thugs and harmony.
- John Madden
Trash
Bone was R&B, not rap/hip hop.
@@southboundguitar umm no have you even listen to their albums that shits not R&B that is straight up rap music even Wikipedia says that come on now
Well, let me clarify it does say hip-hop, but that shit ain’t no hip-hop. They are all rappers.
God I miss Jerry and the shows. 🎵⚡️💀
Another difference in "rap music ". I always felt SAFE at Grateful Dead shows! Always felt like the band was watching out for us❤
"I can’t learn anything from it." - Ray Charles on rap
Just hate.
Then he hasn’t listened to it lmao, you can learn all kinds of things from rap lyrics.
@@HDitzzDHthe fuck was Ray gonna learn gsngbanging?
@@HDitzzDH oh yea? like what?
@@retroonlinemultiplayer9196listen to TPAB
To quote Robert Hunter, via Jerry Garcia... "Please don't dominate the rap jack, if you've got nothing new to say"
Best comment by far.
Nice
🔥🔥🔥
Before asking if rap is music, you need to define music. Most people would have different answers but the most fundamental seems to be sound in patterns (whether that's pitch or rhythm or both.) Then you ask if rap music fits into that definition, which it definitely does, I do not need to give an example as most contain patterns of pitch and rhythm. Although a large amount of rap vocals are monotoned/not varying in pitch, there is a huge range where rap vocals change pitch melodically, exactly like singing. Rap broke the boundaries of what Garcia defined as music, instead of changing his definition, he shut it out.
Well then hic ups. tourets syndrom, and a bad case of gas qualifies as music to you too.
I saw Jerry live in concert over 100 times. Man do I miss that guy. Always will.
That's weird
Wow
He’s kind of a lame but in like his music
They're not even good dude... It's boring ass music.
I miss him, to. His music spoke to the very depths of my being. A legend. 💖
I’ll never understand people hating on different genres of music simply because they don’t understand it. I love all kinds of music and my life is rich having listened to it all.
"Rap won't last. It's just a trend." ~George Harrison
Sure is dying a slow death...
He may be right. It's mumbles now and diamond chain advertising
Which is funny considering that rock eventually died basically
@@hr2186 it’s not you’re just hearing what gets big
@@DanceOfTheDawn5963 I listen. I'm in the business. Rock is dead. Rap the better stuff is still ego and victim, poor me crap in a fruity loop program. The only things that will last are true blues, traditional country, folk and actual rap artist that can also play and sample
Rappers aren't necessarily musicians but some musicians are also rappers.
They are musicians. Rap is music. Literally by definition.
@@Dabeast1911Que you missed the point, good job.
@@EcoCentrist I didn't miss the point. The point op is making is incorrect. Unless it also applies to singers, which I highly doubt op believes.
a person can write a rap hit with literally no musical knowledge. all you have to know is language. period. rap artists are not nearly as musically talented as musicians who play instruments and can read and write music. you have to actually learn an instrument.
@@billshasta5296 The same can be said with singers, but you won't make that argument. Song writing, pacing, and cadence mean nothing in music I guess. Creativity and vision don't mean much either. Just say you hate black people.
"Anyways, I gotta get to practice. We're learning 'Subterranean Homesick Blues' for our tour with Bob Dylan. Now that's real music..."😅
Indeed it is
Lmfao
It really is. Compared to that new shit like Left Foot Creep. Jesus pathetic
That's funny , if you know the music. Rolf understood why!
@@StayMadLmfao lots of stuff in the past century was too. Herman’s hermits?
He is correct ❤
I think it was the DOC that called it rhythmic American poetry.
So weird I was thinking of the band the other day
Correct...on what is imo one of the greatest rap albums of all time
“You know what I mean” 😂🤧
-
Liam Gallagher
Na'mean?
Much respect for musicians who put in the work
...to include the drummers...😉
I think rappers work at it, and can improve their art, it's just a different art from music which is melodic and harmonious.
@@elgringoec 😒 Some rappers literally just talk.
@@valerieblackthorn13 some artists just play chords....
Yeah everyone who's not a musician doesn't have to work at their craft you got it boss
Absolutely agreed 💯 Love you Jerry Missin you always man. Be KIND FOLKS.
It's important to think about things before you say them. Rap is spoken word. Hip hop contains rap and is definitely music. That's undeniable. There's a big difference between a rap and a hip hop song.
Do tell..please!
Why does it seem like you had something to say, but then decided not to say it? Hip hop is the fruit stripe gum of music.
@@UncleKauffee i didn't kno the difference between rap & hip hop
Honestly?
What is considered ‘rap’ has always included musical support - percussion of some sort, synthesizers, turntables, live instrumentation as well. And this musical support has been groundbreaking and extremely innovative in many cases.
To say “rap is not music” is narrow minded and certainly does not tell the story.
Garcia consider himself a sage, and it was important for him to make declarative statements.
@@dwightperkins7972 It's just his opinion well over 30 yrs ago! SMH my opinion also today but, to each his
own happy place man, ya know what I mean? ✌+ 💘
I've always said this too. Glad I'm not alone.
So, you're wrong too. Glad you're not alone
Something to be said about playing your own instruments and vocal range with Melody.
It's poetry with a beat....
hard to believe I went to the Grateful Dead in utah for the fall tour in 1994 when I was just a teenage kid last tour ! RIP JERRY GARCIA🍄🍄🍄
That would actually be spring tour ‘95. I was right there with you brah
I was at Golden gate park in San Fran in 75 you could walk up to the stage and request a song from Jerry
My first show was 87 when i was 17. That was before the hit Touch of Grey brought in a younger generation. After that the shows got even bigger and a new generation of deadhead was born.
I saw Jerry at the Madison Square garden in the late eighties
I went to I was 6 years old
Sir... this is a Wendy's
Because it is true! If you just rap without good instrumentals and a sick beat then it is just nothing
I think it jus becomes “spoken word” at that point
He's speaking literally about music as melody and harmony.
I could never fathom how some rappers could ever be inducted to the Rock-and-roll Hall of Fame.
“Party like a rockstar”. They know it too, they’re just piggybacking.
It really should be called the Pop Music Hall of Fame
Rap absolutely has musical elements. There is rap that qualifies as music, and there is rap that doesn't. But the textbook definition of music is "sound that contains rhythm, melody, and harmony," so some rap absolutely is music. But before bashing Jerry for this, keep in mind that that he died in 1995. Rap hadn't evolved much by 1995 compared to where it is in 2023, so his picture of rap was much smaller than ours is today.
m.ua-cam.com/video/O--EK93lgPc/v-deo.html this song was around before 1995 but he was probably dying slowly or something
🤣
Does rap got musical notes with sheet music?
Fuck No! It is talking not MUSIC! PRESENTLY! I will give you it is poetry with some great artists who put to a great beat, rarely, IT MUST KILL ALL OF
YOU RAPPERS THAT EMINEM WAS AND IS
IS THE BEST RAP ARTIST THAT EVER LIVED! HE
WAS BRAVE ENOUGH TO GO UP & RAP ABOUT HIS SAD HOME, POVERTY & BULLIED HISTORY BY YOU!! HE IS PROFOUNDLY TALENTED AT THE ACT OF POETRY & THE BEAT OF THE STREET!!!!!! ❤ ✌
It's complete rubbish. Although I'm impressed it's still going tbh.
There is music with rap within it. The Rolling Stones song "Shattered" is a great example, especially since it came out well before rap was its own genre.
Walk This Way was rap before Run DMC hooked up with Aerosmith
@@1Daveable Another good example. So first, white guys STEAL blues (kidding) and then they 2nd that by taking early rap mainstream!
I guess you didn’t understand what he was saying. Rap IS NOT music!!! It doesn’t matter if there were some rappers featured in different songs…. It’s still not music itself. RAPISCRAP!!!
Hip hop is the soundtrack to crime and poverty.
So did Blondie, but they composed and arranged the actual musical structures. Like all their other songs. It’s different.
Right on brother!
That's why Rappers 'Sample" music into their Rap
What? No it isn't..there's plenty of rap with no samples.
A song without words is still considered music.
As long as you're hitting notes. Poetry has meter but it's not music.
@@kevinchisolm1847 in rap music the rapper himself is only a piece of the music. If poetry is recited rhythmically and accompanied by instrumental music as one experience, then it is a song. Music. Period. Thats like saying that a drummer is not a musician because he only has rythem. Its all semantics.
@@fbomb_928 I guess he is suggesting that the vocals are not music. But rather poetry accompanied by music. Which on some level isn’t particularly wrong.
But at what point does it become part of the song?
@@thopkins2271everything in the song is part of the song. That's obvious enough
@@fbomb_928 music is sounds produced by musical instruments (or other instrument that replicate the sound of musical instruments). Rap doesn't fit in this definition.
What's underneath the rapping is definitely music. Rapping itself I look at as using voice and words as a percussion instrument
What’s underneath is samples of real musicians music.
Like lil Wayne playing guitar.
Singing isn't music, it's sing.
Playing a melody is music
Singing a melody is still singing.
Rap is rap.
Rap, or singing to music is a song..period..
@@Matthew-qk1xi 😄
Are their any great Rap bands?
Just asking
He’s right music is something you get better and better at rap is the same rap song and they don’t get better at it
He's Not wrong And he's Not disparaging Rap either he's solely Saying rapper's aren't musicians in the instrument sense, rapper's are Orator's with Extensive vocabulary and Quick Thinking, great Narrators , rhyming Syllables etc It's a Skill without a Doubt .
What about the millions of singers who dont play instruments? I dont see a real tangible difference as a musician and singer myself, who really isnt very great at rapping lol
@@whorror_punxrappers are not singers, that's a fact. When some rapper try to sing in a rap song that doesn't make him a singer, that makes that song a rap/pop song, like Kendrick Lamar or Kanye (flashing lights) or Pharrell etc. a SINGER: Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, Bruno Mars, the ones on instrument bands like Metallica James or blink182 singer and so. What you said is like "yhea dude Migos are singers" and the fact is they aren't singers, they just talk on a trap beat. Rappers are not musicians, they even do samples, and make a new song digitally, that's not making music, that's making a track with loops of a song that already exist made by real musicians with musical education
So, you don't need to play instruments to be a singer/musician, what you need to have to be a singer /musician (not a rapper) is musical education from a voice coach, a singer coach, he will teach you how to use your voice musically (theoricaly) good to be a singer. Rappers doesn't need music theory, singers do.
Aaannnddd singers with musical education (not necessarily instrumental) are musiciaans
@@julianestebanosoriogarcia6947 probably one of the most horrible takes I think I have seen this year
This reminds me of when Roger Ebert said video games aren't art. There's something about boomer men having a specific definition of something and sticking with it just because, even when logic proves it wrong.
There needs to be a video with this while it cuts to musical rap songs briefly
There*
Don Cornelius of soul train had the same issue with rap…😂
Boy I love me some jerry garcia but if he were alive today im not sure if his tone would be as self assured
Everybody say yeahhh! Come on clap ya hands! 👏
His definition of music is a bit different than what we have today. I could imagine he's thinking learning instrument as music. Learning music theory over time, becoming more familiar chord progressions and the movement through music. Rap all you need is a laptop and a good mic.
What? None of the Beatles ever studied music theory...
@@topsyturvyy4558 George Harrison and Ringo have both stated before that they aren't particularly good musicians cause while they have great talent and understanding of when to and not to do something they didn't/ don't practice much so they wouldn't regard themselves as great musicians because of that
@@topsyturvyy4558 and yet they still understood it and without realizing it used it in every song they wrote. Because that's how playing an instrument works.
Rap is a vocal style, hip hop is the genre where rap is the primary vocal style used. Sometimes other genres add rapping to it as well, so rap is not a genre but a vocal style. Just like screaming and yelling
Preach Jerry.
Music is a lot like candy. You throw away the wrappers.
I will be quoting this! Thank you very much.
@@Journey-of-1000-Milesok boomer
No boomers here! L O L get a life!
@Fallen OffTop 808 bass sounds are incredibly boring. Can't you offer him something better to be bad at? I know, I know - all tracks forever must be made with an 808...
L O L I’ve got more chops than a butcher shop!
I've been playing guitar for 38 years and new groove is still something you get everyday. Heavy metal, funk, smooth jazz, classical, acustic jingles, coffee shop chords, arpeggio tapping. And some other 💩 that I don't like or listen to. But it's endless. Music is everything. There's nothing else on earth like it!
I have music playing in the background literally 24/7
Numbers related to math equal infinity. Sorry ole chap, music only goes to key G. It does end. As it has. Rap is the disease to our society like its promoters.
the difference between rap and other forms of music is like the difference between drums and guitar. one is rythmatic and the other is melodic. obviously rap would be the rhymatic one. a popular rap artist by the name of tech 9 once mentioned how the way he raps is similiar to that of playing bongos. and then of course you have the beat behind it which can be comprised of various sounds and melodies. also it's important to mention that just like drums, there is a tonality to rapping. you can't rap without holding some sort of pitch, and that pitch can be adjusted to achieve different tones. try simply talking over a beat and see how that goes lol, it won't work too well.
It's like playing bongos if the beat was extremely simple minded and didn't change for the entire song and most bongo songs are basically the same.
@@robertbloom4424 it's like playing the bongos if there was no bongos and multiple instruments being played at once because hiphop artists use instruments too you fucking idiot
Rap is an can be very poetic. Real lyricists are celebrated for their word play cadence , meraphors and story telling abilities. When Nas made rewind everyones mind was blown cause he told a story backwards while rapping and no one at the time ever got that creative, he pushed the boundaries.
Poetry is not music.
Half way through that he almost convinced himself that he was talking shit.
Which half are possibly talking about? Every sentence of this rings so true its not even possible to have an argument against. Go listen to JayZ and jerk yourself clown. **edited to say go JERK YOURSELF instead of the autocorrected version.***