It's very interesting seeing how the mostly 4/4 keyboard part runs through the underlying 9/8. The beams crossing bar lines looks very classical. It's insane how Phil Collins basically played 9/8 and 4/4 at the same time, hitting accents of Tony's keyboard part. Incredible musicians. Thanks fir the great transcription!
The solo is not in 4/4. It's just where the phrases begin and end. I've never understood why people think he's playing in 4/4. Please, could you explain?
The Middle Section (Bars 33-38): * * * UPDATE * * * Although I did get the right chords (except for one note), I now realise that I'd got the inversions wrong for bars 36-38 and the C chord in bar 35. Oops!! I can only put it down to the fact that working out the inversions of full organ registrations with doubled-up notes as well is a bit tricky...! :) For example, when playing that C chord in bar 35 correctly (with an E at the top rather than a G) it still actually sounds (at least with my VB3 plug-in) like the chord has a G at the top!! The trick is to work out what the bottom note of the chord is and go from there! (like I did for those chords in bars 20-29) It's a little like the way I tend to work out full tracks for my band which is to work out the bass notes first and then figure out what part of the chord the main bass notes are - root, third, fifth or something else entirely. For most pop/rock tracks, the bass notes tend to be the root note so, simples! Not quite as easy for Genesis tracks though...! :) Anyway, the correct inversions are now in the PDF file and I've put up a revised vid with just the mid-section: ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html Let me start by saying; these chords are now correct and are what Tony plays live! (and on the studio version for that matter, though not necessarily two-handed - I'll come to that later…) :) I have seen a few versions on the internet ranging from 'not far off - ish' to 'are you just deaf??!!'… I think perhaps what throws people (especially listening to the studio version) is the F#'s and B's that seemingly randomly appear throughout the section! They feel like perhaps they're interfering with the keyboards (in a nice way!) and, I suspect, make it a little more difficult for many would-be transcribers to hear what's actually happening… However, they're not random at all, they're just the same 3 punctuation notes from the main solo section, only louder! I'm not sure what they're played on in the studio (flute & guitar?), but live, this is what happens: During the main solo Steve plays the ostinato 9-beat phrase on guitar, along with Mike on bass-pedals. Mike also plays the guitar neck on his double-neck Ricky, though I think he just hits an E5 (E's & B's notes) chord of some sort on every beat. BUT… during the middle bit, Mike sustains an E on his bass-pedals and, with this E5 chord, plays the rhythm on his Ricky guitar neck that he's previously been tapping on his pedals. Meanwhile, Steve is playing just 3 notes (those very same F#'s & B's!) as octaves over the same repeated 9 beats in the gaps between Mike's chords. i.e. F# on 3, B on 5 and another F# on 9. Each note is sustained until the subsequent one is played, giving them a bell-like chime. I've confirmed this by watching several vids of Genesis (and TMB) doing Supper's Ready. Hopefully you can hear them in the background behind the BIG organ chords :) Ah, the Chords…!! If you watch the Shepperton vid, - ua-cam.com/video/VEKIqbmLmY8/v-deo.html - you can clearly see Tony flicking something to his left on the T-102. I believe he's flicked one of the Upper Presets tabs that changes the organ from being in 'live' drawbar mode (which the solo's played on) to one of the presets. Consequently, he then plays all the 3-note chords for this section with BOTH hands (clearly shown in the video) on the same upper manual! So, this is how I've scored and played it. The registration I use on the VB3 plug-in is 008888227 with no percussion, which seems pretty close to whatever preset Tony uses. If you're playing live on a Hammond clone, setting up two different presets (one for the solo, one for this mid-sect) is easy enough. For those who'd rather just play the 3-note chords with one hand, a reasonable compromise is to just turn off the Percussion on the sound you're using for the solo and then back on again after this bit for the rest of the solo. In the studio, Tony may well have played it with just one hand on his, at the time, L-122 with a pretty full-on registration as he wouldn't've had to record the whole Apocalypse section in one go. Live though, it's definitely 2 hands on his organ!! at least, during the T-102 years anyway :)
The Main Solo: I used GSi's VB3 plug-in for all the organ sounds. Because this is a Hammond B3 emulation, the Percussion variables are a little different to Tony's Hammond T-102 (used on the above reference material - he used an L-122 on Foxtrot). So I've had to compromise a bit - a B3/C3 did not sound like a T-series model which, in turn, did not sound like an L-series model etc. As I suspect nearly all of you will be using some sort of B3 clone (or B3 preset on a synth) rather than a real T-102(!), here are the registrations I use: Upper Manual: 888888000 + Soft (change to Norm for a more aggressive tone) Slow 2nd (NOT 3rd!) percussion with the Leslie in 'slow' mode - no vibrato/chorale. An alternative for the UM, which I've really come to like, is 668844220 with Norm percussion. This is less bassy and more edgy. Lower Manual: 005555444 - this can be altered to suit your own personal tastes; this setting sounds fine to me :) If you use the above alternative UM settings then I'd suggest using something like 005544334 for the LM. Also, make sure you turn 'Foldback' off if you have the option as this is how the L & T 'spinet' models worked (as opposed to the 'console' B/C3 models). The dots: Bar 11 - the E at the end of the 7th triplet. I've seen one or two performances on the web playing a D# instead, but it should definitely be an E. Bars 13-14 - I've based these chords on the studio version. Tony didn't play it like this live; he simplified it. But I like the chords, so they're in! :) Bars 16-17 - on the studio album Tony plays an A triad followed by a C triad. Fair enough, but… live, I haven't yet come across a version where he doesn't play A followed by Am, so that's what I've written as I prefer it to the studio version. 'How sweet the change from major to minor' as I believe a rather famous songwriter once wrote… :) Bar 18 - sometimes Tony seems to play the bar as it's written but at other times I've heard him play it without the repeated G's on top of the other 3 descending notes on both occasions. Entirely up to you! :) Bars 20-29 - 4-note chords with duplicate (octave) notes! The Shepperton video - ua-cam.com/video/VEKIqbmLmY8/v-deo.html - clearly shows Tony playing what's written; four-note chords with the same notes at each end. This is rather unusual for Tony; he's a big fan of 3 (or 4) note chords but without duplication; especially over a pedal-note bass. e.g. Turn It On Again & the mid-section of this very piece! I suspect he's probably done this to enhance the chromatic run-up of C, C#, D, D#, E in the chords in Bars 23-25 and to give the whole passage a more 'dense' feel at this point. The only slight problem is… Bar 29 - the 3-note E chord at the end of the bar sounds a little 'lightweight' in isolation compared to the 'heavy' preceding 4-noters, but I've listened to lots of live versions and I'm virtually certain that's what he plays! Fortunately, with the whole band playing, the 'lightness' isn't that noticeable though :) If you'd rather play different inversions of any or all of the chords from bars 12 to 32, then, of course, that's entirely your prerogative :) I've just written what I believe Tony played on these 1973 live recordings and if it's good enough for Mr B then… :)
Many thanks for this, fantastic job and really helpful! For ages I've wanted to make a pipe organ arrangement, playing the 9/8 ostinato with both feet. I'm looking forward to learning it (difficult!) and playing it on a huge cathedral organ sample set on my Hauptwerk setup. If I ever get round to actually writing it out on 3 staves I would probably notate the organ parts in 4/4 against the accompaniment in 9/8, but clearly that wouldn't have made sense here (good choice to put it in the 9/8 bar lengths even though Banks is overlaying a 4/4 feel - that'll be a godsend for working up the hands/feet coordination). Thanks again.
It's the first time I've heard the song, and it's so complex for me, I can't even normally listen to it. I can't believe someone can play this. And how in the world do people create things like this, in the 1970's, in their 20's?!
Aaand boom, a year passed, and now I know how to play this in full :) Can't believe I'm saying this, but I mastered this solo on my synth and recorded a cover. And also listened to all of pre-'76 Genesis albums! They totally rock!
Fantastic transcription and MIDI sequencing (sounds a lot like the "Seconds Out " version ;-) ) on this brilliant part! Quite hard to transcribe since it sounds in parts like a 4/4 keyboard solo layered on top of a 9/8 rhythm section (which it very likely is) - love how you resolved that! Thanks for sharing! P.S. yup: the Hammond T -102 (or the L-100 for that matter), not easy to get right with a B3 clone. No harmonic foldback on these spinet models for starters.... I also found it quite hard to figure out some of Tony's exact organ chord voicings: he often plays it very low - and at certain drawbar settings (especially on early pre-Selling England) Genesis tunes, when Tony still didn't have the ARP ProSoloist and used the - then L-100 Hammond to its full potential, I think Tony switched to the T-102 on the "Lamb" album), the harmonics (drawbars above 8') can get mixed up with the fundamental sometimes - especially on a tonewheel Hammond organ! Thanks again for going to the trouble figuring it all out!
Hey internet stranger, thanks for transcribing and sharing this *free* transcription of an epic and hard af piece of music! However, let me flex on you by calling out every part I “know” to be incorrect……. …jk man, this is f*cking sick. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
Nice one! 👍😂 I had some guy posting something similar to your parody - 'good tentative etc.' - about my revised Apoc9/8 mid-section ( ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html ) I had to point out that he was basically wrong which I don't particularly enjoy doing (it makes me look a bit intolerant) but sometimes I have no real choice. I had an even stranger interchange with another guy regarding the same video (he did actually use the phrase that he "knew" some of my notes were incorrect... ) that I ended up deleting because he got a bit unpleasant about it. He sent me his version of the mid-section and even a total newbie to music transcription would've been able to tell that it was, shall we say, severely compromised...!! 🙄😂 Having said all that, I really don't mind people offering alternative opinions like DG below did about 4/4 vs 9/8. He felt one way, I felt another. No issues with that at all. I feel that we both cogently explained the reasoning behind our respective points of view. I've also had viewers pointing out legitimate mistakes that I've made in one or two of my videos and I ALWAYS acknowledge these comments, genuinely thank them for their help and then make sure I correct the PDF 👍😊 But someone saying I'm basically "wrong" when they have absolutely nothing to back it up with does wind me up a bit... 😉
This is quite a good transcription. The pitches and chord changes, especially with your revised middle section, are superb. However, this solo is actually mostly in 4/4 time and not in 9/8. This is a very rare example of a soloist playing in one time signature with the rest of the group accompanying the solo while playing in a different time signature (and the rest of the band IS playing in 9/8). Listening to where the downbeats are and looking at the phrasing makes this clear. The fact that you have so many 8th notes tied over bar lines is a hint - that becomes unnecessary if you set the original time signature as 4/4. What confirms this is that I've heard Tony Banks himself say in an interview, when asked about how they created this section, that he wanted to experiment with a freeform solo played on top of the rest of the band playing the 9/8 (3+4+2) ostinato pattern. But even without that, counting this in 4/4 while listening to it makes much more sense and would make it much easier to play (and to sight read, for sure).
I'm sure I've had this conversation before (perhaps with someone else) but I'm well aware that Tony basically plays the solo in 4/4 (and the reasons he gave for this). I chose to use 9/8 because, as you say, that's what the rest of the band are playing in; and it's called Apocalypse in 9/8. I really don't believe it 'would make it much easier to play (and to sight read, for sure)' if I'd chosen to transcribe it in 4/4 (with the odd 2/4 bar chucked in) as I group all the notes into crotchets and it's really not difficult to see what's going on. In fact, doing it this way gives a simple insight into where you should be at any time in relation to the rest of the band, particularly when the solo and the band 'sync up' (e.g. bars 19, 27, 33, 39 etc.). Anyway I'm glad you think it's 'quite a good transcription'... There is one elsewhere on UA-cam that is scored in 4/4 (ua-cam.com/video/hy3hBTFmvss/v-deo.html); I can't be certain, but judging by the exact (and I do mean EXACT) correspondence between my note & chord pitches and his (see his attached PDF), I suspect he's taken my transcription and rewritten it in 4/4 (his came out a year and a half after mine). I'm guessing that one may be more suitable for you.
It's funny how people praise Banks for playing in 4/4 while the band plays 9/8 as if it was an intentional polyrhythm. In actuality, this piece was made and recorded as a jam. Banks was just soloing on top of it, and of course he was heavily classically influenced so was obviously used to playing 4/4 in a jam. That's why he is playing quadruplet arps. It's well documented that the Bass was the first piece of the puzzle, and Collins developed a 9/8 rhythm out of that 'nonsensical' bass rhythm. Collins was the true genius here, Banks does a simple solo in common time because due to whatever reason, he just didn't want to play in 9/8 whether it was because of his own technical ability or choice.
@@LilHaseProductions I believe that what you say is mostly correct. The truth is that none of his 'solos' are really solos at all... :) They're painstakingly worked out 'instrumental sections' where, most of the time, it's Tony taking the lead. Yes, Apocalypse was originally a jam based around the simple 9-beat ostinato that Mike came up with, but you can bet that Tony will have fine-tuned, over many iterations, what he ended up playing on the recorded version (and, consequently, live). Possibly because my own personality is what I'm about to describe, Tony has always appeared to me to have been quite a perfectionist, particularly in his youth and someone who wanted the music to be exactly 'right'. Even Steve's guitar 'solos' are, again, totally crafted. Yes, due to the more expressive nature of the electric guitar (tone, pitch bending etc.) he would alter, for example, the FoF solo slightly over the years, but the notes are essentially the same as what they were on the album. Apart from the Waiting Room ('Evil') jams that the band would do on the Lamb tour, it was only when Daryl came along to play with the band live that any real degree of improvisation was to be heard at a Genesis concert and even then it was only really Daryl going all 'widdly-widdly' simply because he was technically able to; for me, there's no real 'craft' in his live playing like Tony and Steve always put into their instrumental bits. I believe that in the end it's the melody and harmony (and, in the case of Apoc & Scree, the serendipity of the juxtaposition against the rhythm) that are important :) Of course, Phil's playing on Apoc & Scree, particularly live, is simply incredible! The guy was a genius on the drum-kit particularly in the mid-seventies. The way he would hold the essential 9 beat rhythm but would still be able to compliment what Tony was doing on top never ceases to amaze me. For those who haven't already done so, I urge you to listen to the live version of Scree from the Archives for some awesome drumming - even if Phil does have to readjust a bit at 1:26 :) - ua-cam.com/video/PyzbHB1tyoM/v-deo.html (to be fair Tony went a bit off at the beginning and had to readjust to the band too! lol). Having stated that whereas Steve and Tony never really improvised when playing live with Genesis, it's pretty obvious that out on stage is where Phil loved to try out new ideas, particularly when he was just(!) the drummer back in the day :)
It's really not that complex. Mostly, the keyboard solo itself is actually in 4/4 (with a few 2/4 or 3/4 bars thrown in for good measure). You 'simply' have to just ignore what everyone else in the band is playing! 😂 Perhaps it looks more complex than it is because I've written it in the time signature of the underlying ostinato (9/8). There is ( ua-cam.com/video/hy3hBTFmvss/v-deo.html ) another version (based on my transcription) that has exactly the same notes but with the time signature(s) based on Tony's organ part.
@@ElektrikHob I find myself enjoying the solo more when I listen to the entire ensemble at once so I can really hear all of that rhythmic goodness. It's easy to focus in on the keyboards but I find it much more enjoyable to try to listen to all of it at once, if that makes sense.
@@ElektrikHob lol Yeah I guess I shouldn't have replied here. I think I was inspired by you saying you just have to ignore what the rest of the band is playing.
To see a 'hands-on top-down' video of this being played, take a look at ua-cam.com/video/35tt3dZKcBg/v-deo.html Awesome!! He also does briliiant videos of Epping Forest & Coastliners that are inspiring me to score those two songs too 😊
You're quite right! Fixed in the PDF. I've always played those notes as B's cos it then sounds even more full of tension(!), but, yeah, they should all be C's.
Really really nice! You know what voicings I've never been able to figure out? The 'Ikhnaton And Itsacon And Their Band Of Merry Men' part right after Peter Gabriel sings 'Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule' At about 7min20sec in the song. Do you know this one?
You mean the guitar solo bit before the dual guitar/keys arpeggios? Yeah, that is a rather unusual section. Can't think of anything else quite like it from Tony... I've never worked out the whole of SR, but luckily, I have loads of live versions of it and one in particular has the keys mixed louder than usual and, fortunately, Tony tended to play his parts the same way every time :) I'll check it out and get back to you... I've also got a couple of tracks from the Lamb on the go at the moment... :)
The End Section: To be frank, after all of the above, the rest of the solo is a piece of p:$$ to understand and play!! ;) Anyway, if you've got this far thru my wafflings (well done for perseverance!!) then I hope you've found at least some of my meanderings to be of use… BTW. If you haven't already done so, please check out Ian Tanner's vocal and piano renditions of loads of Genesis classics. I think they're absolutely awesome - particularly the end of the Supper's Ready Part 2 vid - and an extremely entertaining & light-hearted alternative to my somewhat earnest endeavours! :) And finally. Seeing as I was in 9/8 mode for this transcription, guess what else I've recently up'ed from the Genesis vaults… :)
The PDF contains the fully correct version. As I've explained elsewhere on this page, in this video, the big chord sequence (bars 33-38) has some wrong chord inversions in bars 36-38 which have been corrected in another of my videos: ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html Also, in the last 2 bars, the top 'B's should be top 'C's though I still personally prefer playing B; slightly more 'menace' IMHO :) Apart from those inconsistencies, the video & PDF should be identical. So, use the PDF if you wish to play it (to the best of my knowledge & ability) exactly right.
This is nice work but why wouldn't you write the organ solo in 2/4 (predominantly) with the 9/8 superimposed underneath? That's how you have to think about it when you play it, no matter if you're in Phil's place, Mike or Steve's place, or Tony's place.
To see how it should actually be performed, I highly recommend ua-cam.com/video/35tt3dZKcBg/v-deo.html. Nicola's transcription (his own work) is pretty much identical to mine! Also, if you haven't already done so, I recommend checking out ua-cam.com/video/e4HfFwVy-h0/v-deo.html ... :)
It's very interesting seeing how the mostly 4/4 keyboard part runs through the underlying 9/8. The beams crossing bar lines looks very classical. It's insane how Phil Collins basically played 9/8 and 4/4 at the same time, hitting accents of Tony's keyboard part. Incredible musicians. Thanks fir the great transcription!
rhythm section in 9/8, solo in 4/4, oh dear Banks...
And Collins meanders between the two time signatures!
Rush has the fame, but surely Genesis don't lose the game;)
And just how well does it work?
The solo is not in 4/4. It's just where the phrases begin and end. I've never understood why people think he's playing in 4/4. Please, could you explain?
My absolute favourite Genesis piece since 45 years (that's when I discovered Genesis)! Thanks a lot, also for the explanations!
The Middle Section (Bars 33-38):
* * * UPDATE * * *
Although I did get the right chords (except for one note), I now realise that I'd got the inversions wrong for bars 36-38 and the C chord in bar 35.
Oops!! I can only put it down to the fact that working out the inversions of full organ registrations with doubled-up notes as well is a bit tricky...! :)
For example, when playing that C chord in bar 35 correctly (with an E at the top rather than a G) it still actually sounds (at least with my VB3 plug-in) like the chord has a G at the top!!
The trick is to work out what the bottom note of the chord is and go from there! (like I did for those chords in bars 20-29)
It's a little like the way I tend to work out full tracks for my band which is to work out the bass notes first and then figure out what part of the chord the main bass notes are - root, third, fifth or something else entirely.
For most pop/rock tracks, the bass notes tend to be the root note so, simples!
Not quite as easy for Genesis tracks though...! :)
Anyway, the correct inversions are now in the PDF file and I've put up a revised vid with just the mid-section: ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html
Let me start by saying; these chords are now correct and are what Tony plays live! (and on the studio version for that matter, though not necessarily two-handed - I'll come to that later…) :)
I have seen a few versions on the internet ranging from 'not far off - ish' to 'are you just deaf??!!'…
I think perhaps what throws people (especially listening to the studio version) is the F#'s and B's that seemingly randomly appear throughout the section!
They feel like perhaps they're interfering with the keyboards (in a nice way!) and, I suspect, make it a little more difficult for many would-be transcribers to hear what's actually happening…
However, they're not random at all, they're just the same 3 punctuation notes from the main solo section, only louder!
I'm not sure what they're played on in the studio (flute & guitar?), but live, this is what happens:
During the main solo Steve plays the ostinato 9-beat phrase on guitar, along with Mike on bass-pedals.
Mike also plays the guitar neck on his double-neck Ricky, though I think he just hits an E5 (E's & B's notes) chord of some sort on every beat.
BUT… during the middle bit, Mike sustains an E on his bass-pedals and, with this E5 chord, plays the rhythm on his Ricky guitar neck that he's previously been tapping on his pedals.
Meanwhile, Steve is playing just 3 notes (those very same F#'s & B's!) as octaves over the same repeated 9 beats in the gaps between Mike's chords. i.e. F# on 3, B on 5 and another F# on 9.
Each note is sustained until the subsequent one is played, giving them a bell-like chime.
I've confirmed this by watching several vids of Genesis (and TMB) doing Supper's Ready.
Hopefully you can hear them in the background behind the BIG organ chords :)
Ah, the Chords…!!
If you watch the Shepperton vid, - ua-cam.com/video/VEKIqbmLmY8/v-deo.html - you can clearly see Tony flicking something to his left on the T-102.
I believe he's flicked one of the Upper Presets tabs that changes the organ from being in 'live' drawbar mode (which the solo's played on) to one of the presets.
Consequently, he then plays all the 3-note chords for this section with BOTH hands (clearly shown in the video) on the same upper manual!
So, this is how I've scored and played it. The registration I use on the VB3 plug-in is 008888227 with no percussion, which seems pretty close to whatever preset Tony uses.
If you're playing live on a Hammond clone, setting up two different presets (one for the solo, one for this mid-sect) is easy enough.
For those who'd rather just play the 3-note chords with one hand, a reasonable compromise is to just turn off the Percussion on the sound you're using for the solo and then back on again after this bit for the rest of the solo.
In the studio, Tony may well have played it with just one hand on his, at the time, L-122 with a pretty full-on registration as he wouldn't've had to record the whole Apocalypse section in one go.
Live though, it's definitely 2 hands on his organ!! at least, during the T-102 years anyway :)
Wow...what a great find and a great transcription of a piece of music that still gives me chills. Thank you!
Thank you for taking the score.
I feel tremendously tense in the part of my favourite eccentricity.
Thanks for this! With this finally, I can play that awesome solo!
Absolutely fantastic work. So grateful you took the time to do this, and share it with all of us. How wonderful.
The Main Solo:
I used GSi's VB3 plug-in for all the organ sounds.
Because this is a Hammond B3 emulation, the Percussion variables are a little different to Tony's Hammond T-102 (used on the above reference material - he used an L-122 on Foxtrot).
So I've had to compromise a bit - a B3/C3 did not sound like a T-series model which, in turn, did not sound like an L-series model etc.
As I suspect nearly all of you will be using some sort of B3 clone (or B3 preset on a synth) rather than a real T-102(!), here are the registrations I use:
Upper Manual: 888888000 + Soft (change to Norm for a more aggressive tone) Slow 2nd (NOT 3rd!) percussion with the Leslie in 'slow' mode - no vibrato/chorale.
An alternative for the UM, which I've really come to like, is 668844220 with Norm percussion. This is less bassy and more edgy.
Lower Manual: 005555444 - this can be altered to suit your own personal tastes; this setting sounds fine to me :)
If you use the above alternative UM settings then I'd suggest using something like 005544334 for the LM.
Also, make sure you turn 'Foldback' off if you have the option as this is how the L & T 'spinet' models worked (as opposed to the 'console' B/C3 models).
The dots:
Bar 11 - the E at the end of the 7th triplet. I've seen one or two performances on the web playing a D# instead, but it should definitely be an E.
Bars 13-14 - I've based these chords on the studio version. Tony didn't play it like this live; he simplified it. But I like the chords, so they're in! :)
Bars 16-17 - on the studio album Tony plays an A triad followed by a C triad. Fair enough, but… live, I haven't yet come across a version where he doesn't play A followed by Am, so that's what I've written as I prefer it to the studio version.
'How sweet the change from major to minor' as I believe a rather famous songwriter once wrote… :)
Bar 18 - sometimes Tony seems to play the bar as it's written but at other times I've heard him play it without the repeated G's on top of the other 3 descending notes on both occasions.
Entirely up to you! :)
Bars 20-29 - 4-note chords with duplicate (octave) notes!
The Shepperton video - ua-cam.com/video/VEKIqbmLmY8/v-deo.html - clearly shows Tony playing what's written; four-note chords with the same notes at each end.
This is rather unusual for Tony; he's a big fan of 3 (or 4) note chords but without duplication; especially over a pedal-note bass. e.g. Turn It On Again & the mid-section of this very piece!
I suspect he's probably done this to enhance the chromatic run-up of C, C#, D, D#, E in the chords in Bars 23-25 and to give the whole passage a more 'dense' feel at this point. The only slight problem is…
Bar 29 - the 3-note E chord at the end of the bar sounds a little 'lightweight' in isolation compared to the 'heavy' preceding 4-noters, but I've listened to lots of live versions and I'm virtually certain that's what he plays!
Fortunately, with the whole band playing, the 'lightness' isn't that noticeable though :)
If you'd rather play different inversions of any or all of the chords from bars 12 to 32, then, of course, that's entirely your prerogative :)
I've just written what I believe Tony played on these 1973 live recordings and if it's good enough for Mr B then… :)
Many thanks for this, fantastic job and really helpful! For ages I've wanted to make a pipe organ arrangement, playing the 9/8 ostinato with both feet. I'm looking forward to learning it (difficult!) and playing it on a huge cathedral organ sample set on my Hauptwerk setup. If I ever get round to actually writing it out on 3 staves I would probably notate the organ parts in 4/4 against the accompaniment in 9/8, but clearly that wouldn't have made sense here (good choice to put it in the 9/8 bar lengths even though Banks is overlaying a 4/4 feel - that'll be a godsend for working up the hands/feet coordination). Thanks again.
If you do it, please post it🙂👍
I'm sorry there are rude comments here, ty for this
It's just other people's opinions so I don't mind in the least 😊The fact that they're wrong doesn't bother me either... 🤣😂
boom boom ting, boom ting, boom boom boom ting.
2,1- 1,1- 3,1
Ignore the keyboard, it changes signature right and left.
I still feel this is 9/4
It's the first time I've heard the song, and it's so complex for me, I can't even normally listen to it. I can't believe someone can play this. And how in the world do people create things like this, in the 1970's, in their 20's?!
Me too. In recent days human being is lost its creativuty in all aspects.
Aaand boom, a year passed, and now I know how to play this in full :) Can't believe I'm saying this, but I mastered this solo on my synth and recorded a cover. And also listened to all of pre-'76 Genesis albums! They totally rock!
Fantastic transcription and MIDI sequencing (sounds a lot like the "Seconds Out " version ;-) ) on this brilliant part! Quite hard to transcribe since it sounds in parts like a 4/4 keyboard solo layered on top of a 9/8 rhythm section (which it very likely is) - love how you resolved that! Thanks for sharing! P.S. yup: the Hammond T -102 (or the L-100 for that matter), not easy to get right with a B3 clone. No harmonic foldback on these spinet models for starters.... I also found it quite hard to figure out some of Tony's exact organ chord voicings: he often plays it very low - and at certain drawbar settings (especially on early pre-Selling England) Genesis tunes, when Tony still didn't have the ARP ProSoloist and used the - then L-100 Hammond to its full potential, I think Tony switched to the T-102 on the "Lamb" album), the harmonics (drawbars above 8') can get mixed up with the fundamental sometimes - especially on a tonewheel Hammond organ! Thanks again for going to the trouble figuring it all out!
Love this, Electrik Hob
Thanks to all for the positive comments! :)
Hey internet stranger, thanks for transcribing and sharing this *free* transcription of an epic and hard af piece of music! However, let me flex on you by calling out every part I “know” to be incorrect…….
…jk man, this is f*cking sick. Thank you for sharing. 🙏
Nice one! 👍😂 I had some guy posting something similar to your parody - 'good tentative etc.' - about my revised Apoc9/8 mid-section ( ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html )
I had to point out that he was basically wrong which I don't particularly enjoy doing (it makes me look a bit intolerant) but sometimes I have no real choice.
I had an even stranger interchange with another guy regarding the same video (he did actually use the phrase that he "knew" some of my notes were incorrect... ) that I ended up deleting because he got a bit unpleasant about it. He sent me his version of the mid-section and even a total newbie to music transcription would've been able to tell that it was, shall we say, severely compromised...!! 🙄😂
Having said all that, I really don't mind people offering alternative opinions like DG below did about 4/4 vs 9/8. He felt one way, I felt another. No issues with that at all. I feel that we both cogently explained the reasoning behind our respective points of view.
I've also had viewers pointing out legitimate mistakes that I've made in one or two of my videos and I ALWAYS acknowledge these comments, genuinely thank them for their help and then make sure I correct the PDF 👍😊
But someone saying I'm basically "wrong" when they have absolutely nothing to back it up with does wind me up a bit... 😉
@@ElektrikHob it needs more cowbell
@@johnbartlett9568 Definitely! 😂😉
Very interesting rythmically !!
Thanks
This is quite a good transcription. The pitches and chord changes, especially with your revised middle section, are superb. However, this solo is actually mostly in 4/4 time and not in 9/8. This is a very rare example of a soloist playing in one time signature with the rest of the group accompanying the solo while playing in a different time signature (and the rest of the band IS playing in 9/8).
Listening to where the downbeats are and looking at the phrasing makes this clear. The fact that you have so many 8th notes tied over bar lines is a hint - that becomes unnecessary if you set the original time signature as 4/4. What confirms this is that I've heard Tony Banks himself say in an interview, when asked about how they created this section, that he wanted to experiment with a freeform solo played on top of the rest of the band playing the 9/8 (3+4+2) ostinato pattern. But even without that, counting this in 4/4 while listening to it makes much more sense and would make it much easier to play (and to sight read, for sure).
I'm sure I've had this conversation before (perhaps with someone else) but I'm well aware that Tony basically plays the solo in 4/4 (and the reasons he gave for this). I chose to use 9/8 because, as you say, that's what the rest of the band are playing in; and it's called Apocalypse in 9/8.
I really don't believe it 'would make it much easier to play (and to sight read, for sure)' if I'd chosen to transcribe it in 4/4 (with the odd 2/4 bar chucked in) as I group all the notes into crotchets and it's really not difficult to see what's going on.
In fact, doing it this way gives a simple insight into where you should be at any time in relation to the rest of the band, particularly when the solo and the band 'sync up' (e.g. bars 19, 27, 33, 39 etc.).
Anyway I'm glad you think it's 'quite a good transcription'... There is one elsewhere on UA-cam that is scored in 4/4 (ua-cam.com/video/hy3hBTFmvss/v-deo.html); I can't be certain, but judging by the exact (and I do mean EXACT) correspondence between my note & chord pitches and his (see his attached PDF), I suspect he's taken my transcription and rewritten it in 4/4 (his came out a year and a half after mine).
I'm guessing that one may be more suitable for you.
It's funny how people praise Banks for playing in 4/4 while the band plays 9/8 as if it was an intentional polyrhythm. In actuality, this piece was made and recorded as a jam. Banks was just soloing on top of it, and of course he was heavily classically influenced so was obviously used to playing 4/4 in a jam. That's why he is playing quadruplet arps. It's well documented that the Bass was the first piece of the puzzle, and Collins developed a 9/8 rhythm out of that 'nonsensical' bass rhythm. Collins was the true genius here, Banks does a simple solo in common time because due to whatever reason, he just didn't want to play in 9/8 whether it was because of his own technical ability or choice.
@@LilHaseProductions I believe that what you say is mostly correct. The truth is that none of his 'solos' are really solos at all... :)
They're painstakingly worked out 'instrumental sections' where, most of the time, it's Tony taking the lead.
Yes, Apocalypse was originally a jam based around the simple 9-beat ostinato that Mike came up with, but you can bet that Tony will have fine-tuned, over many iterations, what he ended up playing on the recorded version (and, consequently, live).
Possibly because my own personality is what I'm about to describe, Tony has always appeared to me to have been quite a perfectionist, particularly in his youth and someone who wanted the music to be exactly 'right'.
Even Steve's guitar 'solos' are, again, totally crafted. Yes, due to the more expressive nature of the electric guitar (tone, pitch bending etc.) he would alter, for example, the FoF solo slightly over the years, but the notes are essentially the same as what they were on the album.
Apart from the Waiting Room ('Evil') jams that the band would do on the Lamb tour, it was only when Daryl came along to play with the band live that any real degree of improvisation was to be heard at a Genesis concert and even then it was only really Daryl going all 'widdly-widdly' simply because he was technically able to; for me, there's no real 'craft' in his live playing like Tony and Steve always put into their instrumental bits.
I believe that in the end it's the melody and harmony (and, in the case of Apoc & Scree, the serendipity of the juxtaposition against the rhythm) that are important :)
Of course, Phil's playing on Apoc & Scree, particularly live, is simply incredible! The guy was a genius on the drum-kit particularly in the mid-seventies. The way he would hold the essential 9 beat rhythm but would still be able to compliment what Tony was doing on top never ceases to amaze me.
For those who haven't already done so, I urge you to listen to the live version of Scree from the Archives for some awesome drumming - even if Phil does have to readjust a bit at 1:26 :) - ua-cam.com/video/PyzbHB1tyoM/v-deo.html (to be fair Tony went a bit off at the beginning and had to readjust to the band too! lol). Having stated that whereas Steve and Tony never really improvised when playing live with Genesis, it's pretty obvious that out on stage is where Phil loved to try out new ideas, particularly when he was just(!) the drummer back in the day :)
@LilHaseProductions
The best compositions are often unintentional.
very haunting solo!
How can anyone play this? It's impossible. The timing is insane.
It's really not that complex. Mostly, the keyboard solo itself is actually in 4/4 (with a few 2/4 or 3/4 bars thrown in for good measure).
You 'simply' have to just ignore what everyone else in the band is playing! 😂
Perhaps it looks more complex than it is because I've written it in the time signature of the underlying ostinato (9/8).
There is ( ua-cam.com/video/hy3hBTFmvss/v-deo.html ) another version (based on my transcription) that has exactly the same notes but with the time signature(s) based on Tony's organ part.
@@ElektrikHob I find myself enjoying the solo more when I listen to the entire ensemble at once so I can really hear all of that rhythmic goodness. It's easy to focus in on the keyboards but I find it much more enjoyable to try to listen to all of it at once, if that makes sense.
@@asymptoticspatula Totally agree if you're LISTENING to it, but the OP (to whom I replied) was talking about PLAYING it... 😉
@@ElektrikHob lol Yeah I guess I shouldn't have replied here. I think I was inspired by you saying you just have to ignore what the rest of the band is playing.
Thank you so much for this!!
To see a 'hands-on top-down' video of this being played, take a look at ua-cam.com/video/35tt3dZKcBg/v-deo.html Awesome!!
He also does briliiant videos of Epping Forest & Coastliners that are inspiring me to score those two songs too 😊
Le don de Dieu à ces musiciens hors normes ! Une séquence de batterie, *phénoménale*, en 1972 !
Venti anni appena dei Geni assoluti
Great work indeed. But I noticed an error! From the 6th 16th of 49 onwards, the top notes should all be Cs, not Bs!
You're quite right! Fixed in the PDF.
I've always played those notes as B's cos it then sounds even more full of tension(!), but, yeah, they should all be C's.
I hear you! :)
Dude, you rock!
Oh my god.. those bastards were crazy....! ... THANK YOU MAN... I appreciate a lot your transcriptions.
Thanks a lot!
Trying to tap out the rhythm on my leg. I'm no Phil Collins 😂
For me, I don't think of it as 9/8. But, one two THREE one TWO one two three FOUR.
came for that 0:36 nonsense
amazing
That part and Willow Farm are a hard tie for me
Really really nice!
You know what voicings I've never been able to figure out?
The 'Ikhnaton And Itsacon And Their Band Of Merry Men' part right after Peter Gabriel sings 'Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule'
At about 7min20sec in the song.
Do you know this one?
Anyway, just subscribed. Can wait to here and read what you're gonna do next.
You mean the guitar solo bit before the dual guitar/keys arpeggios? Yeah, that is a rather unusual section. Can't think of anything else quite like it from Tony...
I've never worked out the whole of SR, but luckily, I have loads of live versions of it and one in particular has the keys mixed louder than usual and, fortunately, Tony tended to play his parts the same way every time :)
I'll check it out and get back to you...
I've also got a couple of tracks from the Lamb on the go at the moment... :)
Exactly!
Well, when you get the time.
Anyway (they say she comes on a pale horse), thanks for the good work!
I think you got it! Fantastic! And thank you!
No probs :)
This one ends with the most climax part, like an X-videos' 3 minutes video.
Haha
The End Section:
To be frank, after all of the above, the rest of the solo is a piece of p:$$ to understand and play!! ;)
Anyway, if you've got this far thru my wafflings (well done for perseverance!!) then I hope you've found at least some of my meanderings to be of use…
BTW. If you haven't already done so, please check out Ian Tanner's vocal and piano renditions of loads of Genesis classics.
I think they're absolutely awesome - particularly the end of the Supper's Ready Part 2 vid - and an extremely entertaining & light-hearted alternative to my somewhat earnest endeavours! :)
And finally. Seeing as I was in 9/8 mode for this transcription, guess what else I've recently up'ed from the Genesis vaults… :)
It needs more cowbell
Hi thanks so much! But in the video there are some parts that do not appear on the pdf and viceversa, help please
The PDF contains the fully correct version.
As I've explained elsewhere on this page, in this video, the big chord sequence (bars 33-38) has some wrong chord inversions in bars 36-38 which have been corrected in another of my videos: ua-cam.com/video/rmhV3diT1x4/v-deo.html
Also, in the last 2 bars, the top 'B's should be top 'C's though I still personally prefer playing B; slightly more 'menace' IMHO :)
Apart from those inconsistencies, the video & PDF should be identical.
So, use the PDF if you wish to play it (to the best of my knowledge & ability) exactly right.
PLEASE DO LOOKING FOR SOMEONE!
I'd love that so much too!
This is nice work but why wouldn't you write the organ solo in 2/4 (predominantly) with the 9/8 superimposed underneath? That's how you have to think about it when you play it, no matter if you're in Phil's place, Mike or Steve's place, or Tony's place.
See my reply to DavidGainesVeganComposer.
To see how it should actually be performed, I highly recommend ua-cam.com/video/35tt3dZKcBg/v-deo.html. Nicola's transcription (his own work) is pretty much identical to mine!
Also, if you haven't already done so, I recommend checking out ua-cam.com/video/e4HfFwVy-h0/v-deo.html ... :)
Elektrik Hob y
What about Gentle Giant, sir?