RANT- The Yes vs. Yes Feud. The State of the Prog Legends Here in 2017
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- In this latest installment of the 'rant' series, host Pete Pardo discusses the state of prog rock legends Yes, with two factions now including the proper Yes band as well as Yes featuring Jon Anderson, Trevor Rabin, and Rick Wakeman.
My opinion may not be popular, but I am a Steve Howe fan all the way. It was his guitar playing that had the biggest impact on me. I'm a very big Yes fan! I've seen them in the early 80's and twice recently. Fortunately I saw them with Chris Squire before he passed. I'll go see either version. I just love the music. Jon Davidson seems like a very genuine guy and does a great job. Unfortunately ARW doesn't tour much and doesn't come to where I live. Been a fan since the 70s
Not only did A, R, and W have fun during the ceremony piece, but Geddy Lee was having just as much fun. I'm for drafting Carl Palmer and Geddy Lee into ARW and calling it Super-Yes.
Yes is my favorite band and have seen them over 60 times starting when they were the front band on your with deep purple in 70 or 71 at the spectrum in Philly. Everyone's loses something in 50 years. Be grateful for the music we have come to enjoy! Their Intricate chord changes, rhythms, speed, and melodies are as powerful now as then. Have seen both incarnations in 2019,and again, enjoy the chance to see Steve, Alan, Jon, Rick, Trevor and the rest play live at close to the edge of 70yrs. Old!
I was 12 years old when I first discovered progressive rock and to me, it was the music of the gods. Yes(w/Anderson), Genesis(w/Gabriel), ELP, King Crimson and Jethro Tull. My aunt who worked for a rock promoter in Montreal took me to see Yes and it was the Relayer tour and I remember it clearly to this day - I had never seen or heard anything so amazing (Pat Moraz was incredible so I wasn't too upset that it wasn't Wakeman). When I learned that Yes left Anderson and Gabriel left Genesis it was like the world ended. I cried like a little girl because a) I was a little girl and b) how can a group continue without such a strong and distinctive vocalist and front man? Kill me now. If I likened these two bands to hands, it was like they both had their thumb cut off. No more precision grip. I know I shouldn't have the "no soup for you!" attitude but my tender sensibilities just couldn't handle it. Phil Collins did his absolute best and big kudos to him but it wasn't Genesis, it was a new creature and should have been given a new name. Yes without Anderson was just a huge no way. I've forgiven everyone but I just couldn't get into the Yes and Genesis mutations after that. I know I'm joining the conversation a little late but I just found your channel and I love it! Thank you so much! Much love to you and yours from Windsor, ON Canada.
Same, my grandad introduced me to Yes when I was 12. I'm 16 now and never got bored of them
I'd like to see Anderson, Rabin, and Wakeman stay together. They've got a really good chemistry. Lou Molino and Lee Pomeroy are really solid musicians more than capable of handling some of the more complex Yes material. I think its time for Howe and White to hang up the dancing shoes and call it a day and let ARW take over as Yes.
Absolutely love the prog rock from the 70's!
They are all near the end of life and what years they have left shouldn’t be spent in animosity. So sad 😔
Spot-on commentary. Jon Anderson wisely said years ago, that the band is "like a bus" sometimes the bus makes a stop. One member gets off, and a new member gets on, and it continues forward. For all my respect for Alan White, I think he needs to get off the bus.
+Joe Curtin Lmao!
I am glad the fake fans are off the bus. But the rest of us are still on board and are loyal to Yes!
Why do they hate each other?
If you're a musician who makes it to the top, you should be thankful because millions of others never do (make it).
I like both versions of the band but for live performance it’s ARW.
I personally think YES is not YES without the voice of JON ANDERSON
I'll be 45 next month and I've probably seen yes 10 times. But the last time I saw them was the 35th anniversary tour in 2004. Thankfully I get to remember them that way because the lineup was Anderson, Wakeman, Squire Howe and White. I stumbled upon this video by accident but I enjoyed it. I agree with everything you said here too. I'm a huge fan of Trevor Rabin also and I hope someday to see ARW while they're together. To me there's just a happiness in the band when Rick is involved. I agree with you. I want to see energy and people having fun and genuinely getting along. They had so much great history and so many great musicians in this band that I do get sad at what's happened. As much as I respect Steve Howe's guitar playing, once Chris passed away I was pretty much done with that incarnation of the band. I do like what Billy Sherwood is doing and I've always been a fan of his and I think it's wonderful that he's taken over because he was such close friends with Chris. But they need to get more out of the rest of the rhythm section.(Alan) Anyways I enjoyed this video and you were spot-on with everything you said. Thanks
Thanks for the latest on the band, Pete. I sort of lost contact after "Heaven and Earth", which I don't particularly like. I wasn't even aware of the Andesron-Rabin-Wakeman trio
Just before Wakeman was supposed to speak at the R&R-HOF induction ceremony, Rabin and Anderson encouraged Wakeman to "Go for it". Wakeman was widely known in England for doing comedy for many years on his radio and TV shows, as well as doing storytelling/stand up comedy shows.
Wakeman actually hates listening to awards speeches, because he says that everyone already knows the histories of the artists and giving thanks to every person in one's life and career is very boring. It didn't take much convincing from Rabin and Anderson for him to improvise a comedy bit for his speech, but they definitely put him up to it.
He really had to think on his toes, because most of his comedy is based on anecdotes and stories that require fairly long set ups, before the punclines. He had to piece together a series of one liners, off the top of his head for his induction speech. I think it was a pretty good piece of improvisational comedy.
Agree with a lot of what you're saying. YES, to me, are one of the all time greatest bands -- up until Going For The One. Alan White is a great rock drummer who did a good job but Bruford was a unique artist. Never cared for Trevor. He's a good guitarist but he changed the direction of the band away from what I loved about them. And yes, in the last decade or so they were just phoning it in. And the way it fell apart at the end with all the animosity and back stabbing is tragic.
Yes is one of my favorite bands, and Bill Bruford is one of my all time favorite musicians. As time goes by I have more and more respect for his decision to completely retire from public performance. What a dignified way to go out vs this cluster f*ck.
Jon Anderson, Rick Wakeman, Trevor Rabin, Billy Sherwood, Jay Schellen.
I'm one of the fans that adore Jon Anderson. Both bands were playing on August 31st - I chose to fly to Vegas to see Yes with Jon Anderson!!! GREAT show! Remember Jon Anderson is one of the Original founding members. Why shouldn't he have rights to tour under YES flag. Go Jon!!
He shouldn't have rights because he's only one person. The majority of the most recent lineup in place when he quit in 04 still own the rights (Howe, White and the Squire estate). Also, Kaye is an original member and is with the touring lineup of Yes again. ARW is not Yes by any means.
Yes was great in the 70's , but not as much afterwards, in my opinion!
Bill Bruford cracking up at Rick Wakeman's Speech is wholesome...
You have mentioned your age in the past and at 58 I have been fortunate to be familiar with a lot of great bands whose members are no longer with us or the bands have changed members. There is a lot of great music and it can be tough to see the transitions that some of the bands go through to keep the music going. For me Chris Squire was the heart of Yes. I wish Howe and Anderson could work together but I suppose it is what it is.
I prefer ARW over the "proper" Yes band. Not only because Yes doesn't have any founding member left in the band, but also because Steve Howe and Alan White are no longer what they used to be. And you said it very well about Steve; going through the motions and too damn straight faced. Also, I think his playing had become predictable and repetitive, sad really because he was one of the best ever. And Alan White is one of my favorite drummers, but now, indeed I think he should retire, because he's a shadow of his former self. Probably some people might say that he's old now and we have to understand the fact that he can no longer play the drums like he used to, but Ian Paice from Deep Purple is also old and he is still a powerful drummer, even after he had a ministroke last year, so...
The other musicians in the band (like Geoff Downes) are ok on the other hand, but it's not enough unfortunately.
In ARW, everybody is on fire and doing great, including the session musicians.
Agree 100%! Howe is like Clapton. A great guitar player that never progressed after his peak period. Howe fans sniff about how Rabin doesn't do note for note copies of Howe's stuff and claim it's because he's not as good. Nothing could be further from the truth. As Rabin himself said, "I don't play note for note copies because I'm not a hired "gun" that was brought in to do so. I play the Howe stuff CLOSE to the original material with a bit of myself thrown in." I never understood why fans expected Trev to duplicate Howe stuff, he's a more modern player, Howe's stuff ain't Trev's bag.
Yes actually rehearses enough. ARW do not. Plus the current Yes members have a MUCH longer combined album count as Yes members and length of tenure of a combined 98 years in Yes vs ARW's members being in Yes only a combined 59 years. The album count, btw, with Kaye now, is 43-28. By NO means is ARW legit as or better than Yes is.
i think that you are missing the most important part of the purpose of music - which doesnt have anything to do with childish wishes of selfishness whatsoever - which is art
in reality it doesnt matter if any musician gets older or their aging contributes to some disabilities of their physical attributes
there are many cases like tomy iomy, def leppard and hundreds more that have lost some or their overal capabilities to perform well but they continue to perform as well because they can use modern gadgets that contribute to their performance
as an art, these professional musicians keep on making music that apparently will appeal to actual audiences from different tastes but in reality what they do is to compose music according to their physical capabilities and coverage
there exist almost since the explosion of music back un the 1950s many technological gadgets that will expand these physical capabilities - that is with their instruments, studios or even on your own radio, tv set etc receptor
but, ethically, that is not the most important point to be remembered and that is the fact that it doesnt matter what, the audiences that grew with & love to or preffer certain type of music want to see any original member or associate to perform the song their are watching playing in front of their eyes for sure, and specially whoever member playing at that given time have anything to do with the performance in general
besides that, big bands such as pink floyd, genesis, black sabbath, yes - and many others - etc etc are well known that they create someting in common called "albums" which is a compilation of their work and they always and certainly include any one in it as they wish
is their work 👆 and they are ultimately the ones deciding who do wheatever they want them to do to complete their work
🎐 that is a very ancient costume in the music industry
before you start judging and deciding what you want to heard according to your personal preferences do yourself a big favor: do some research 👀 about the subject you want to argue about it in public - on a public library 💤, ask people around 💬 - or just google it 👄 - and youll be alright after that
thanks for your contribution 🙏
Yes actually play the notes wheres ARW makes a general attempt and hopes for the best. And Im not even talking about their reinterpreted rearrangements. They just play poorly. They don't rehearse enough due to Wakeman's schedule and it really shows.
Sounds like you missed the band playing the Yes Album and Going For The One (and Drama) in their entirety.
Tend to agree with most of your comments - but I don't see any of the two factions joining together
Would love to see Relayer live
Interesting. I'm a big fan of Lord Anderson, but I don't mind having 2 bands. In the end, its the Live show that matters to me. Now, either version makes it to the Nashville area every 2 years or so. I don't have to go to Atlanta every 3 to 4 years as it was before. Jon won't do Drama songs, Steve doesn't like the Rabin songs so you get the whole mix of tunes this way. Look into the future when they retire, I'm still going to every Yes Tribute that I can! Good comment on your part. I'm from Elmhurst originally!
Yes has been an ever-changing beast since Time and a Word. At least the music is still being performed. I believe that Jon Anderson IS the voice of Yes and always will be. Although I prefer Yes with ABW, I would see either band and be happy.
No YES reunion with Steve Howe and John Anderson with Rick Wakeman in my opinion will happen
Jon Davidson is not Jon Anderson and never will be. I have heard guys and women try to chase Anderson's vocals and they get close, but ultimately fall short with pitch or length of note. Anderson is a pure vocal talent, almost no vibrato ever. In his prime and even now, one of the best ever and clearly one of the distinguishing factors in great Yes music.
You said it best! Three years ago? I'm just catching up.
I saw YES the first time in November of 71 with Wild Turkey a few weeks earlier I saw Black Sabbath with Wild Turkey. I still love Yes , Sabbath and Grand Funk Railroad . Great bands and music when I graduated in 73.
I'm a huge Yes fan too (100% agree on "Relayer"), but they've been tired for a loooooong time now. I kind of find some of their performances "sad". It's like seeing a Viking King in his waning hours of life. I like to remember my "Rock Gods" as they were in their prime. - IMHO. Cheers!
Comments on the video from my personal experiences:
When I met Steve last year, I was looking forward to shaking his hand and the guide said DO NOT touch Mr.Howe at all, especially his hands so he is trying to preserve his abilities. When I met Rick, he said that ARW are going to do one more tour and then they are probably done
Oh and when I saw Yes Alan only came on for a couple of songs and they had Jay Schellen do most of the show behind the kit. Amazing show without a doubt though, I'm 16 and I had a probably around 30-45 minute conversation with Roger Dean about music and him being an answer to my homework in History Of Rock, to which he said "Keep doing that homework!" When I left for the first time. Carl Palmer was amazing, Jaco Pastorius' nephew David on bass, talked with Roger during the majority of John Lodges set and Asia were O.K. One of my favorite shows though without a doubt, definitely a top 3
I think it was summer of 2016 when I saw Yes do both Going For The One and The Yes Album in their entirety. I think they figured a 40th anniversary for Going for the One and a 45th anniversary for the Yes Album. It was cool hearing "The Venture", "Parallels", "Turn Of The Century", and "Wonderous Stories" which were rarities in the live shows. But it was all great. Jon Davison did a marvelous job. Jeff Downes even did a good job on "Awaken". Allen White came alive during the Going For The One set.
Believe it or not, my favorite part of the concert was the lack of dragged-out solo spots. I've seen Yes at least two dozen times over the years, and the solo stuff gets a little, well, dragged out. I go to see a band so I can see the band, not so I can see individual members showing off their skills.
Great commentary. I agree with all he said and want to add that I'm ashamed of how Jon Anderson was treated by the band when he got sick. As a founding member he should have been welcomed back when his health improved. I don't know what happened to cause the rifts but they should forgive and forget and reunite. My other comment is that I've seen the band a few times in the last several years and they have slowed down the tempo of many of their songs and it does not sound well. I know the problem is not Steve Howe because when he played with Asia recently he was more than capable of playing at normal speed. I do think the problem is Alan White and maybe Geoff Downes. I love this band more than any other and hope to see as many "classic" members as possible get back together and tour one last time. RIP Mr. Squire.
I attended the July 2014 Radio City music show. My last show seeing Chris live was one more gig in Washington D.C. a few days later.
Downes has even said he is no Wakeman, and doesn't try to be.
Jon Anderson basically worked himself into the hospital after 5 solo tours Jan 2005 through May 2008. According to Steve in N.F.T.E., 2006, that a band member did not want to restart YES.
If Howe and Squire had to wait for Anderson, Squire would have died before touring again. I saw them a few years ago, they were amazing.
I saw an interview with Jon Anderson recently and Howe played on one of the songs in Anderson’s new album. He said he was ready to get back with Steve and finish some songs they started on in the 70s. It sounds like it is all in Howe’s court right now.
In a recently viewed video I know I saw Alan White sitting next to the drum kit outside of the plexiglass and another drummer was performing. Anyone else notice this?
I remember reading a very recent interview by Steve Howe, in wich he criticized Wakeman without pronouncing his name, saying "Don't make us sink by being in Yes". In fact, Howe was furious against Wakeman because the keyboardist had despised Tales from Topographic Oceans, whereas Howe considered it a "die-hard dream". I must admit than in the case of Tales, I would rather support Howe's opinion : I absolutely love this proggy masterpiece, and as he said in the same interview, "But when you criticize your own music ? That's gotta be shooting yourself in the foot".
Spot-on commentary, IMO! The one point you missed a little is - it's not the vitality that's missing, it's the virtuosity that's missing! And so the less exciting aspects of Downes, and older Howe and White. Take Squire out of the mix and you don't have Yes, IMO!
The 2 band scenario is sad, silly, and cheapens the Yes "brand"!
And I can't imagine Relayer without Moraz! But then I couldn't imagine Fragile and Close to the Edge without Bruford.
I'd prefer they don't milk the Yes brand/name/songs over and over until every last drop of love for the band is drained from our souls! Yes was GREAT!!! But it's dead! It's gone! Time to move on and explore new vistas, and let the glory of Yes live on in our hearts and memories, forever!
Great program. Love it. Love the Aja t-shirt as well. Continuing success to the channel. Take care.
My overall sentiments are the same. Quite immature of Steve right now. I noticed you mentioned the idea of them playing Relayer or The Yes Album. They were at least doing Gates of Delirium, back when they had an orchestra and Tom Brislin on keys. I wanna say I recall it being Close to the Edge and The Yes Album, as for the two albums I saw them perform beginning to end just before Chris had passed. You're not the first person I've heard talk about their tempos being a bit low. Although, I've never heard it mentioned as if it's completely Alan's fault. Now you got me wondering... 🤔
I saw that Yes Orchestra tour and doing Gates!! So incredible! A bucket list item... Because I have a huge soft spot for Relayer; that was the pinnacle of Yes for me.
+TonysMusicChannel I've always considered The Yes Album through Relater to be the essential five. But Relayer really was the pinnacle. Not sure why it's so hard for people to agree. Oh, wait... I DO know why; it's because a lot of people are afraid about what it says about Wakeman and/or Bruford. Really pathetic. It's not like just because an album is said to be "better" (or whatever word one wants to use) that that necessarily is to say the same about the individual musicians who played it. In fact, I don't really see the point in comparing them. They were all more than sufficiently qualified to play Yes' music. I kind of see the debate as being beyond the point of Yes. Yes was a band that wrote music that was supposed to sound like how it should sound (no more/no less). You either could play the parts or you couldn't.
Ben, I agree. Father Time is still undefeated!
I'm not sure it's White who is slowing the band down. To me, it felt as if the tempo was reduced to accommodate Howe losing a step. It's just an opinion from another drummer.
Anderson and Wakeman quit every time they don't get their way. And Steve is the immature one? Yeah that doenst make much sense.
It took me a while to listen to "Heaven and Earth" album to really like it, but I have always been loyal to Jon Anderson since he was co-founder of the band... but Jon Davidson holds his own vocally and lyrically. Plus he gets the spiritualism of the band. I think they'll do well with him. I would love to see Jon Anderson, Jon Davidson, and Trevor Rabin be part of the next studio album... I can't even imagine how awesome it would be! I started listening to them since the Yes Album and I always thought they were great. I love both Steve Howe and Trevor Rabin both and it would be so cool if they collaborated... One is not better than the other... just different. As an amateur guitarist I love both of they're work... They both blow me away in different ways. They both have a different way of expressing classical music - Steve is more organic and Trevor is more technical... I like them both!
You mentioned Billy Sherwood. Just curious to know what you think of Cerca? Love your show😎🤘👍
2 Yess and 2 Asias. I have seen both Asias. I saw original Asia on the Phoenix tour in Dallas, TX and John Payne's Asia in College Station, TX. I go to meet and get a picture with John Payne. He was very nice and signed my cd/dvd edition of Silent Nation. Probably my favorite Asia album. With Payne anyway.
A friend of mine has been part of the house band for the series of The Sunflower Jam Concerts, and the last year that Jon performed he wrote and played and instrumental with Rick Wakeman. Both Jon and Rick enjoyed it so much that they planned to do an album together, and my friend was going to play guitar on it and hopefully tour with them. Unfortunately, Jon was diagnosed with cancer and he passed away the following year. But imagine how exciting it would've been to have two of the greatest keyboardists of all time recording and touring? Such a tragedy that Jon died and it never happened. Rick was so upset when Jon went, he said it hit him harder than any other musician's passing.
Great commentary, Pete! I agree with everything you said. Nice t-shirt, too! Where do you get all those cool shirts?!!
Thanks Crush! It's amazing what you can find on the internet! Pick any favorite band or album, and you can generally find plenty of places to buy a shirt of it!
"Kiss & make up, for fuck's sake!"
That about sums it up. It is the core message of 15 minutes and 32 seconds of a YES-related stream-of-consciousness, the contents of which I totally agree with, but that could have used some editing in post-production.
I love the ABWH record I fact I think it’s my favourite of the later records
Tony Evans I agree. It is one of the best albums I have ever heard. The livealbum from that Tour is amazing as well. If you should find it, grab it with both hands, and bring it home.
Well Pete you covered the main parts of this YES....drama.
It really is SO tiring anymore. I like many fans started with YES in 1972. Maybe I will get off the bus, and hang out with Anglagard, IQ, Marillion, King Crimson,etc!
I appreciate very much the Sea.of Tranquility station here. I just finished Steve Howe's autobiography and thought it was terrific. I last saw Yes on the "Relayer" 1976? tour, so I can't compare the Yes vs. AWR Yes, and maybe there's not a competion now some few years later. But I would just say it should be no surprise that the grown up in the band ended up fronting the ban, which now is over 50 years old. Per Howe, Anderson became sick, then wanted to return but earn more than Squire, Howe and everyone else, then fell and was injured. The band went four years without doing anything all that time, so one could see why Howe, Squire, and White (Wakeman joined and quit over and over) might want to move on.
'Classic' Yes is Steve Howe's distinctive guitar, and enormous writing contributions, CTTE, for example. Chris Squire and Alan White, sadly, are no longer living. Thus, Howe soldiers on with very talented musicians. His book indicates an enormous work ethic (for a while he played with both Yes and Asia every night when they toured together), and he has maintained a passion for his guitar that I think is up there with Hendrix sleeping with it. The new Yes album, The Quest, has a pretty good single and I look forward to exp!oring it further.
Fly From Here is a great album, I don't understand why so many just don't hear it.
Oh well....
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I love that album too, super underrated. The title track is one of their best sidelong epics in my opinion
I love this band, but I agree about Steve Howe. I also agree about the set list. I would love to hear The Yes Album as a whole, and Relayer too. I know they almost *have* to play Roundabout, Starship Trooper, etc. but some of the other songs in their huge catalog would be nice too.
I've seen Yes in different incarnations since The Yeggles Drama tour and I reckon Yes official are very serious about what they are Doing. Billy has definately grown into the role that chris asked him to do and the recent relations with Moraz suggests they may actually fulfil your Relayer desire. Good work Rant! :)
Jon Anderson is Yes and Chris Squire is Yes--with Chris gone Jon Anderson is the only original member left
Tony Kaye an another original member is performing a few songs with the Yes west lineup on their current tour.
Bill Bruford and Tony Kaye are still around. just not doing Yes (other than tony guesting with Yes). Yes had five original members. BTW. Steve Howe is the "original" guitarist on "Roundabout" and "Close To the Edge." Does that make him redundant because he wasn't in the band in 1968?
Without Chris Squire, I just don't care anymore. I have and love all the old albums and that's enough!
Steve Howe has been back in the band since 1995.
Kaye is playing with the band that actually IS Yes, the same band which contained Squire in all of its lineups until he passed. Now his chosen successor plays with the rest of his final lineup. ARW is a Yes spinoff band which plays Yes covers. They are a good band but they are not Yes.
Rabin is perfect for Yes than he ever was before.
Howe is done since decades ago, his work on his later albums in Yes is barely noticeable whereas Rabin is energetic and inventive like never before.
Therefore ARW is a much better live band than ABWH was way back then and even better than the Howe-White-Davidson' Yes of today.
I've been a fan of YES since 1972 and I think they have had personality issues with each other since then. They are all very powerful personalities and there was always friction. You can tell that as they always had their own little space on stage and very rarely encroached on each other. They almost never looked like they were having fun on stage. The current YES lineup is getting old and tired. They've slowed down most of the songs and don't have the tightness that was their hallmark. Love him or hate him; Jon Anderson was the driving force behind the rehearsals and tightness. I've also seen ARW and you could tell there was that old magic back in the performances and I'm sure Anderson was driving them to getting it as close to perfect as possible. The one thing I do miss about the classic lineup is the incredible chemistry among Howe, Squire and Wakeman. It was like they were in each others' heads.
From what I've heard the issues between Howe and Wakeman stem from way back when they had separate management companies, (Wakeman was not managed by YES's management at that time). Both companies were trying to outdo each other and inadvertently caused issues. YES has always had problems with whoever managed them.
I'm hoping that they will do something for the 50th but I'm not holding my breath. I think Sherwood and Davidson are "contract" players, not full members so we'll see. I also expect Alan White to retire soon and it seems like Dylan Howe maybe the one to replace him. He is currently touring with them along with Alan. White did look a bit tired and I think he is in a lot of discomfort if the HOF ceremony was anything to go by. There comes a time when it's best to step aside when the product isn't there any more. I think the current YES lineup is at that point.
I'm actually looking forward to seeing what ARW has in mind for a CD. Anderson did say he had a few YES-type songs he was working on and his last YES album, Magnification, was as good as anything they put out in the 70's,
I wonder if they would still do yes if they didn't need the cash from touring I should imagine most fall outs stems from money issues we'll that's my take on it. Howe looks so miserable all that fame and nice guitars hotels flying round the world I mean come on cheer up ffs
From Mike W to another Mike W , you are absolutely right, Yes make ELP (rip EL) seem like Army buddies and best of friends, I also get the impression that Howe is so far up himself Re Peter Banks all those years ago and he goes round looking like he had a smell under his nose .
I agree with everything you said except the notion that it looked like they were not enjoying themselves at any point. I've seen almost every tour/incarnation since the mid-80's, and I always saw them having a good time each concert without exception. Am hoping for the under-rated greatness of Magnification to continue with Rabin and Wakeman's slant on their new album, it will be the first album I've looked forward to the release of for perhaps 20-plus years. Anderson-Rabin-Wakeman will be such an AMAZING writing combination.
BOY it's nice to be excited about music again.
P.S. Huge Big Generator and ABWH fan, along with all their 70's prog stuff.
Huge, huge Yes fan here. Also a guitarist who plays a lot of Yes. I agree with much of what you say. Although Steve Howe is one of my favorite guitar players right up there with Jimmy Page he does appear to be somewhat of a grouch especially in his old age. I recall watching a short video clip where someone was recording him as he was walking backstage and Howe looked at him and said there's no recording back here you know, or something to that effect. Very anal. I'm sure it didn't help that he lost his son last year.
Steve Howe has always been a guitar player's guitarist. He won the guitarist of the Year fan award for Guitar World magazine 5 times times in a row. Rabin was a great player, but he definitely contributed to commercializing Yes which kind of went against the ethos of the band.
As far as vocalists go, no one compares to Jon Anderson. It's not just the sound of his voice but it's also his soul which permeates the music. It's not enough to have some other guy with a high-pitched voice wearing hippie clothes. Some of them have done a great job but it just makes it frustrating when they are so close and yet so far and you can't see and hear the real deal with Jon Anderson.
Wakeman has always been my favorite keyboard player but Patrick Moraz is right up there as well.
I also believe you can't really have a "true" Yes without Chris Squire. Just listen to his solo album Fish Out of Water and you'll know what I mean. That's got to be one of the greatest solo albums ever made by anybody.
Bill bruford was always my favorite drummer but Alan White is great. Having said that, there's a point where any player in the band definitely has to move on, especially with the demands of a band like Yes. The drumming is probably the Yes instrument most easily transferable to another younger, hotter player without negatively altering the overall songs.
All of this said, it's great to see guys from the 60s still going at it. I just hope they're doing it for the right reasons. Love of music, creative desire, sharing with true fans... As opposed to just "getting the cash", or a kind of weird sense of keeping it going just for the sake of it.
You did this very well. I think you made an update after you saw both bands again, but I can't find it. The ARW band seems to be getting better and better, and the Yes band, whatever it is, perseveres. They are already booking the 2019 "Cruise to the Edge," so they don't care what people think of them. Yes, we will see if the ARW band can put out a good album of new music, up to the level of Yes music. It's almost a miracle that these guys can keep going at such an advanced age. Yes in the 2020's? Seems unimaginable, but I guess it will happen. I am having trouble staying in good health, much less be able to do a grueling tour!
Hey Pete just stumbled across this and I must say, I found it quite enjoyable hearing your take on the dual YES situation. I am a YUGE YES fan and my views are very much aligned with yours here, but also must add that, hey, two versions of YES, neither one sucks, what's the problem? My last YES show was also Radio City (but I've seen ARW more recently) and definitely agree about Alan White, a great drummer for most of the YES years but not quite cutting it anymore, God bless him. I have been very excited about the ARW version of the band, and there's no doubt Trevor has a valid claim as one of the two main YES guitarists on both the basis of his original contributions with the band AND the rest of the YES catalong that he toured and mastered for 10 years. This past week, got a copy of the new Topographical Drama live double CD from the other guys - very nice hearing Drama performed with Howe and Downes from this version of the band, and as I understand it White was replaced on most of the album by another guy who gets the job done pretty well. Billy Sherwood does a fine job covering Squire and Jon Davidson sounds even better on Drama covering Trevor Horn vocals than he does covering Jon Anderson (which he also does quite decently). A fellow YES fan just asked me tonight which version of Heart Of The Sunrise I prefer, the one on this album or ARW (quite a few decent versions of the latter to be found on on UA-cam) and there's really no contest, ARW so much better and cleaner and you got Jon and Rick and the drummer does a MUCH better job getting the jazzy-rock feel of the original (I play the drums BTW and this is my ultimate Bruford song). Could say a lot more, let me conclude here in resonating with your hope that Jon and Rick do manage to get it together with Steve somewhere down the line (before it's too late), that would be very nice - but with all the interesting different versions of the band, and all of the AMAZING and FANTASTIC music and performances they have given us, would just be the icing on the cake, but VERY nice icing! Also, very much looking forward to that new original ARW music coming out hopefully sometime soon. Anyways, like I said enjoyed listening to your perspectives - and I clicked on the Subscribe button - so also looking forward to crossing paths with you again here on the interweb, my friend... B^)
Thanks for the kind words Frank!
A lot of the Howe/Wakeman riff ties to the dismissals of his son in favor of Downes for the "Fly From Here" project. In addition to how Jon was let go. Imho: When Jon got sick, they should have been more diplomatic. Bring Benoit in for the tour and let Jon return and keep BD around in a backing capacity.
Jon, Trevor and Rick every time!!
I played some Jon from Relayer to a friend of mine who is a professional opera singer. She said he has seriously good vocal technique, in fact she was amazed
She then added,and the band are good too lol!
I think it speaks well of the band(s) that they never say what the arguments were about. They are family, albeit dysfunctional. I do know that Rick had recommended his son, Oliver, to Steve H for a CD Steve was recording. That was how Oliver joined Yes. I think all was well at that point. But in order to get Trevor Horn to produce a new album they had to hire Downes and fire Oliver. That was probably infuriating to Rick.
They probably don't say because they're ashamed to admit the pettiness of what they're feuding over.
When I saw Yes in July 2019, they had a very diverse set. They played stuff ranging from Time and a Word to Big Generator, which they played Rhythm of Love even though Alan was the only member who played on it, Gates Of Delirium, even covers of America by Simon and Garfunkel and Imagine by John Lennon
The only thing you left out of your clinical rundown of the YES YES history is that Davison can't ever come remotely close to producing a sound that can move your soul like Anderson can. And because the lyrics are so much of who Anderson is as a human being, having Davison sing them just makes the experience even more hollow and unconvincing.
I agree 100%.
Steve Howe is brilliant. Hogwarts snooty persona. But that's allright. He and his co-workers gave me 5 years in the 70's where the rest of the bands were a distant second.
They played the Yes Album, GFTO, and CTTE on their 2013 tour.
Dead on. Thank you very much for this overview!
My two favourite bands - Steely Dan and Yes. And here we have a man wearing an Aja shirt talking about Yes!
You sure have a great taste in music! :)
These band splits remind me of Gilmour's Floyd vs Roger Waters and Andy Powell's Wishbone Ash vs Martin Turner's WA
Nice t-shirt, love the Dan. Grew up on Yes during the 70's and have seen them several times. Without Jon & Chris, Steve's Yes is hopping on one leg. Sadly Chris is no longer with us. For me the real Yes needs Jon's voice and spirit. Jon wrote most of the lyrics to the track CTTE and Awaken. In The Presence Of has Jon's stamp all over it. Those are Yessongs. My wish is for both bands to merge.
"Seen them several times". The rest of your statement figures. I know people who see them several times every tour. Those are the real Yes fans. Not you.
Very good analysis - of the current state of YES ! Saw them in 1973 , still probably the greatest concert of my life , and the Union tour , also excellent .
I see this rant is from 2017, and I'm not sure how much had transpired by then, but for what it's worth, since 2014, I've seen Yes play the whole of the albums:
The Yes Album
Fragile
Close to the Edge
Tales From Topographic Oceans (over 1/2)
Going For The One
Drama
As well as some long neglected songs from Yes and Time and a word, and prion to the COVID shutdown the were preparing the full album Relayer, which I'm still hoping for in 2021. This would leave only Tormato from the classic canon. I'm hard pressed to think of a band that's gone to this level of effort in knowing their audience and catering to the deep fan base instead of the (I only know the big hits crowd). They are sometimes spelling Alan White with either Dylan Howe, but moe regularly Jay Schellen who is being groomed as Yes' next drummer, though it's my understanding that Alan is coming back around since his back surgery and rehab.
I liked ARW, and saw them as that entity, and had a great night, but I had some feels from the whole hall of fame deal, and the shit move of renaming themselves as Yes, featuring that kept me from even wanting to see them again. I'm finally warming back up to Anderson and really enjoyed Invention of Knowledge. I'm looking forward to 1000 hands, and Rick never lost me, even when I was mad at him. I love his latest piano collection, and am downright psyched about red planet. But only Yes is Yes. It looks like featuring is over now anyway, but if they go out again, I already caught their act, and while it was fun, at no time did I think I was at a Yes show. While Howe and company, I get butterflies in my stomach thinking about the Relayer tour in 2021.
The best thing about Downes is his keyboard orchestration ability. He's also an accomplished songwriter of no small talent. Perfectly capable keyboardist. As a package, there just aren't many performers doing what he does and has been doing for decades now.
Jon was never kicked out of Yes. When he got sick, the band decided to start the tour they planned with Benoit singing, and referred to him as "the understudy". He would fill in for Jon till he was well. Jon however was having none of that, and went on his own page and tore the band a new one, simultaneously burning his bridge behind him. He took down the statement, but the damage was done, and he was out of the band. Also, when Squire was still alive, Yes did Going For The One in its entirety, along with The Yes Album, and Fragile. Having seen Yes over a dozen times, I can tell you that there were songs I'd never heard live on that tour, such as "A Venture", and "We Have Heaven".
I've seen Yes in the early days of the early 70s. Was pretty much done after "Relayer." But "Going For The One" and "The Ladder" were good albums among others. Plus their compilations and the DVD was excellent. But for me Yes will always be a band for the mind, even though I've seen many of their concerts over the years. The 70s line-up will always do it for me. I can still listen to "Fragile" on a warm Summer afternoon and be transported to my teenage self and then all of the stuff afterwards that is associated with most bands is not even a thought. Kissing and making up may not be in the cards for them, especially when your fighting over the house, kids and bank accounts. But one can only hope because their music has brought so much positive energy to the world over the years.
Howe sounded like a cranky old geezer during his Rock and Roll Hall of fame induction. Wakeman's induction speech was a classic, right up there with Alex Lifesom's blah blah blah speech. You actually saw Alex Lifesom cracking up during Wakeman's speech.
We never did get an album from ARW.As much as I like Jon Anderson,I have learned that when he mentions something about his plans for any new project,it's best to take it with a grain of salt.
I know a new Yes album is coming out soon, does anyone know the lineup?
There is little that is "proper" about faux-Yes. I am waiting for ARW/Yes to return this summer and I hope a new album by the proper lads.
If Yes were to bring together Anderson, Rabin, Sherwood, Bruford, and Wakeman [with special guest Pat Moraz], and perform both "Relayer" and "Going For The One" in their entirety, I would break down and pay top dollar for front row seats... to be sure. As much as I've grown up loving these songs, I do not need to hear "Seen All Good People" or "Yours Is No Disgrace" ever again. I was watching a far newer SOT show a couple of days ago, and one of the guests hated "A Venture", which for some reason, I absolutely love. A little levity before the mighty "Perpetual Change", which remains one of my all-time favorite Yes tracks. My overall favorite? "Going For The One"!. I agree SPOT ON with everything Pete's saying in this video. I, too, have seen both factions of the band over the last few years, and for my money and overall entertainment, ABW blew Yes out of the water. Some of the people with me at the Yes show actually walked out.
When I saw them a few years ago (2013) they did Going for the One, The Yes Album and Close to the Edge
This will probably never happen but I wish they could add Wakeman and Anderson and get Bruford on drums.
while they are healthy!
and geddy lee on bass
YES FEB 2019.
YES had a great 50th anniversary tour.
Apparently YES is supposedly planning a RELAYER album tour this year. They did GFTO in 2014, YES album a few tours.
No new ARW songs, but the ARW Glasgow live is great overview of YES catalogue songs...
Onward
Good Assessment, I can't see Howe wanting Anderson and Wakeman back so I think what we've got is the best of all possible current Yesworlds. I'm certainly much more excited by Yes featuring ARW, they're unlikely to come near me on their tour so I just hope they finish their album, but those guys are still talented and I think driven to make good new music. Heaven and Earth I thought was a sad note from Squire to go out on, it sounds uninspired both in musicianship and song writing. I've got it but I can't play it anymore.
Yep, White is done due mostly to health issues. Howe can in no way carry the current band YES, which has very talented musicians especially Billy Sherwood. YES featuring is SOOO much in the YES spirit and has the passion and spirit to produce some old and new classic YES music!!!
They did go out and do "The Yes Album" and "Going For The One" in their entirety back in 2013. :) I would like to see them play more stuff from the first two albums though. "Survival", "Sweet Dreams" etc.
Love Howe as a guitarplayer but he's a pretty grumpy dude...
The Ginger Baker of guitar... He took an attitude when he left and thought they couldn't replace him.. Enter Rabin, who got them higher in the charts than he had.
Yes has been going pretty much non-stop without Jon Anderson since 2008. I think, indeed they do sound tired. But for me, more than anything else, I prefer to see Jon Anderson singing. Those lyrics are a genuine expression of who he is. When anyone else sings them, they really don't work all that well for me.
I agree with the majority of what you say about the band(s). I attended the Howe, White, Davison, Downes, and Sherwood Yes show at the Majestic Theater in Dallas a year or so ago. It was so disappointing to hear them sound like a moderately decent cover band. White didn't have the energy to play the full set but had a stand in cover for him while he was off stage chugging Geritol. It also didn't help that they had one of the muddiest audio mixes I have heard in a live show. I saw a recent photo of the ever more skeletal Howe wearing some rectangular shaped glasses and he looked to me like the love child of The Crypt Keeper and Benjamin Franklin. The calendar is often cruel, but always relentless and inevitable...to all and even the greatest.
I agree with you about Alan White. The last time I saw Yes(2015)it almost seemed like he was afraid to hit the drum set. I think maybe they should consider another drummer(a la KC or GD or IZZ) or maybe just replace him(it wouldn't be the first time). As much as I like Yes(they probably more than any other band got me into prog)I think there has to be some changes. I doubt it will happen but maybe some kind of merger between the two Yes's.
Yes, ARW was quite good live. Better than the "proper" Yes in fact.
This is really between Steve Howe and Jon Anderson. Howe did Asia and GTR before returning to Yes. Rabin did four albums with Yes.
Rabin did the score for Arnold's "The Sixth Day". Good movie. He does an audio commentary for the entire dvd just on his score.
Bruford, Wakeman, Howe, Squire & Anderson is the definitive “Yes”
Agree though have not seen either entity live yet in their present forms going to see ARW soon (can't wait) last time I saw Yes was way back on the Reunion Tour. Personally, for me been a big fan of Wakeman since I was a school kid, I'm 58 now seen him solo a few times still think no one can beat Jon on Vocal's Rabin has a good voice to through different style of playing to Howe who always to me looked way too serious cannot comment on White's drumming as not seen for many years. I was hooked from the moment another lad a school played my YesSongs same guy also introduced me to Genesis who I have seen many times but quite a few years back. ARW's drummer seems more than capable as does their bass an guitarist (who are they btw).
i think it's a power struggle between jon anderson; and steve howe about musical direction. each one wants to be in control. (just an off the cuff opinion)
Some bands can get away with losing or replacing their original vocalists, yes ain't one of them , Jon Anderson will always be the voice of yes.
I think the performance for the Rock and Roll HoF induction ceremony says it all. Some of them were there to have fun with Geddy Lee and the rest were just going through the motions.
see how Howe was happy to play on stage "Close to the edge" with Jon Anderson on the ABWH tour... what a mess... Today, the energy of Jon Anderson with ARW seems to be powerful. Let's see...I'd like to hear an album. I'm not sure that the style of Wakeman fits well with the style of Rabin (listen to the "Talk" album)
I have long been a huge fan of Alan White. The first time I saw him perform with Yes, I was blown away; and every show soon thereafter. But sadly, the last time I saw them with Davison in the mix, not only was his drumming thin and weak, (with all due respect) he simply didn't look good. I feared his time with Yes was drawing nigh, but was also very happy with all the shows I'd seen him in, and the amazing performances he's given us for so many years!! My hats off to 'im, but I'm afraid it's time for him to call it a day.
Just as Steve Hackett tours with "Genesis Revisited", maybe with White almost retired, Howe should just go out as "Yes Revisited". Maybe keep Davidson, and Sherwood, and get Tom Brislin on keys (great on Magnification tour) and have Schellen on drums, and advertise for what it really is now. That would tighten the show up.
Only when they put there differences aside the real musical Yes can have a last Blast before going in history.
A very balanced appraisal and bang on the money. 👍🏻