It is why the 4x genre has been faltering for awhile and why people liked Thea. New mechanics rather than trying to re invent the wheel, but emotions will never get old. Look up Key's crying game formula. The japanese has already went through this stuff at a rather high level, as with Clannad. Western studios are uncomfortable exploring Masculine vs Feminine dichotomies as well. Even for games that marketing says need a female face, they don't actually do much with the character. On Japanese games, the female character is usually a companion, secondary main, or just the main itself. Nier Automata. The Japanese did not slap on the character dichotomy after, but actually built mechanics around the core emotional experience. But this can be high production or low production, as even visual novels started out without voice actors, just using text and hand made illustrations. Hard to go lower budgetr than that. Indie makers need to look at the practical pragmatics of 2d artwork, as in Banner Saga.
Aerith and Cerberus; classic examples. Really any and all pieces of games create emotion. The catch is if it is the emotion that engrosses the player or not.
I tried SotC and I stopped after like the 3rd Giant. I got bored so fast, but so many people telling me to give it another shot. This video convinced me.
Great video, as always. You might be interested in this old article of mine that tackles some of the points you raise here. I would write it differently today but I totally agree about the need for such a framework. www.stephanebura.com/emotion/
Thanks Stephane, I appreciate the support! I went through your framework and it is incredibly interesting. Many of your insights in 2008 overlap with a lot of the literature that has come out since. Visceral engagement is covered well by steve swinks game feel, systems analysis and longer engagement loops are present in Micheal sellers advanced game design, and many of your insights into emotional engineering overlap with Hoffman and Lazzaro, whom you reference in your paper. The extent to which you take engineering emotional experiences is also fascinating, and would be interesting to build on. Bringing in systems analysis, psychology and a more generally interdisciplinary lens is also something I'm interested in, and segmenting your analysis into action, system ,self and social dimensions allows the incorporation of those ideas. Your Examples of Nurturing and being hunted also overlap with my examples of the last guardian and stealth games in this video, but you obviously went into much more depth. Finding an equation to invoke love might strike people as reductive, but clearly there are methods that work better than others. With love, it might be that both having agency and the ability to impact the life of another as well as having them push back and being resistant to your demands( like in the last guardian) may be important, but the literature on love is very unclear. The predatory stealth and fearful stealth dichotomy is also something you address, and the equations you devised got me thinking about similar emotional engines. There are also so many more ideas to interface with in psychology, whether it be the big 5 personality model to account for variation, self determination theory for engagement, as well as the work of Nick yee, Scott Rigby and others. I would be interested to hear how you would update this model as well, given how prescient you seemed to be when it first came out Thank you for sharing your work, and Ill be sure to keep it in mind for future reference!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you found this interesting. SDT and the big 5 were indeed the next step for me. I had a very small part in the evolution of Jason VandenBerghe's model on the subject (check his videos on this topic on the GDC vault if you haven't already). If I were to rewrite this paper today, I'd probably use SDT / Big 5 dimensions instead, coupled with the steps of the interaction cycle from Donald Norman's The design of everyday things. I started working on the latter just after this paper. It led to an unfinished unpublished downpour of ideas that you can find here if you're interested and not scared www.stephanebura.com/innovation/ Ten years later, I've come to believe that games are all about the "plan" step and might well write something about it one day. Finally, you should have a look at Daniel Cook's brilliant work on skill atoms and loops lostgarden.home.blog/2012/04/30/loops-and-arcs/
I've just noticed that I replied to my own comment instead of yours, so you may not have seen my reply below. I saw in your last video that you already knew about Jason's work :)
amazing vid you're very underrated I'm glad I found you
Thank you for the kind words p-y!
Incredible video thank you for making this
Man this is outstanding quality. I love your work and the level of your analysis. Keep it up!
Thank you Suladan! I appreciate you supporting the channel
I randomly stumbled upon your video and I am in the middle of making my first game. This hit home in a big way. Can't wait to see your next videos.
Thanks Brandon, I''m glad the video was of some help!
It is why the 4x genre has been faltering for awhile and why people liked Thea. New mechanics rather than trying to re invent the wheel, but emotions will never get old. Look up Key's crying game formula. The japanese has already went through this stuff at a rather high level, as with Clannad. Western studios are uncomfortable exploring Masculine vs Feminine dichotomies as well. Even for games that marketing says need a female face, they don't actually do much with the character. On Japanese games, the female character is usually a companion, secondary main, or just the main itself.
Nier Automata. The Japanese did not slap on the character dichotomy after, but actually built mechanics around the core emotional experience. But this can be high production or low production, as even visual novels started out without voice actors, just using text and hand made illustrations. Hard to go lower budgetr than that. Indie makers need to look at the practical pragmatics of 2d artwork, as in Banner Saga.
pride and accomplishment its in the game.
I'm very excited for the next Ueda game
Same here, hopefully we don''t have to wait too long for it either!
I loved the video, thank you.
Thanks Aidan, I appreciate it!
Amazing video, great quality. Keep it up. + Subscribed :)
Aerith and Cerberus; classic examples. Really any and all pieces of games create emotion. The catch is if it is the emotion that engrosses the player or not.
This was a great video, really enjoyed it
Glad you enjoyed it John!
I tried SotC and I stopped after like the 3rd Giant. I got bored so fast, but so many people telling me to give it another shot. This video convinced me.
Ueda is amazing
"What can't be denied is everyone who played blighttown (in dark souls) has an opinion on it."
Me- it should of been harder.
Muv Luv Alternative, Extra, for divine 4th density emotions.
Great video, as always.
You might be interested in this old article of mine that tackles some of the points you raise here. I would write it differently today but I totally agree about the need for such a framework.
www.stephanebura.com/emotion/
Thanks Stephane, I appreciate the support!
I went through your framework and it is incredibly interesting. Many of your insights in 2008 overlap with a lot of the literature that has come out since. Visceral engagement is covered well by steve swinks game feel, systems analysis and longer engagement loops are present in Micheal sellers advanced game design, and many of your insights into emotional engineering overlap with Hoffman and Lazzaro, whom you reference in your paper.
The extent to which you take engineering emotional experiences is also fascinating, and would be interesting to build on. Bringing in systems analysis, psychology and a more generally interdisciplinary lens is also something I'm interested in, and segmenting your analysis into action, system ,self and social dimensions allows the incorporation of those ideas.
Your Examples of Nurturing and being hunted also overlap with my examples of the last guardian and stealth games in this video, but you obviously went into much more depth. Finding an equation to invoke love might strike people as reductive, but clearly there are methods that work better than others. With love, it might be that both having agency and the ability to impact the life of another as well as having them push back and being resistant to your demands( like in the last guardian) may be important, but the literature on love is very unclear. The predatory stealth and fearful stealth dichotomy is also something you address, and the equations you devised got me thinking about similar emotional engines.
There are also so many more ideas to interface with in psychology, whether it be the big 5 personality model to account for variation, self determination theory for engagement, as well as the work of Nick yee, Scott Rigby and others. I would be interested to hear how you would update this model as well, given how prescient you seemed to be when it first came out
Thank you for sharing your work, and Ill be sure to keep it in mind for future reference!
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you found this interesting.
SDT and the big 5 were indeed the next step for me. I had a very small part in the evolution of Jason VandenBerghe's model on the subject (check his videos on this topic on the GDC vault if you haven't already).
If I were to rewrite this paper today, I'd probably use SDT / Big 5 dimensions instead, coupled with the steps of the interaction cycle from Donald Norman's The design of everyday things. I started working on the latter just after this paper. It led to an unfinished unpublished downpour of ideas that you can find here if you're interested and not scared www.stephanebura.com/innovation/
Ten years later, I've come to believe that games are all about the "plan" step and might well write something about it one day.
Finally, you should have a look at Daniel Cook's brilliant work on skill atoms and loops lostgarden.home.blog/2012/04/30/loops-and-arcs/
Please keep challenging our ideas about game design. Your work is inspiring :)
I've just noticed that I replied to my own comment instead of yours, so you may not have seen my reply below. I saw in your last video that you already knew about Jason's work :)
Ah, when will the algorithm catch you up.,