However Amtrak trains frequently get delayed heavily because generally they use freight lines. Having said that Amtrak is an experience, in my case from Portland OR to Oakland CA. As neighboring states clearly not as long as your CA to NY.
FYI Rocky Mountaineer currently provides the ultra-lux rail excursion service in North America, but its limited to those lines which have slack capacity. My friend did the Banff run, which is overnight and about $4000/person. They also run Denver to Moab, UT.
This isn't entirely true. While RM does take advantage of the mostly abandoned former BC Rail Cariboo line and the Great Northern from Prince George to Jasper, it otherwise operates on Canada's two busiest lines: CN and CP from Vancouver to Jasper and Banff, respectively. Those are anything but lightly used lines, carrying every kilo of Canadian rail freight across the country. It should be noted that the Rocky Mountaineer was created by VIA Rail (Canada's answer to Amtrak), but the conservative government of the 1990s forced VIA to divest of its only profitable Western service as part of the Canadian equivalent of the Beeching Cuts (the 1990 VIA cuts).
Please do more American railroading content. I'd love to see a history of some American locomotives in the same vein that you do histories for BR types.
I agree with this concept, although I'd leave the question of focus up to Mr. MacVeigh. That said, channels like High Iron are excellent at talking about steam locomotive designs, while there are numerous other niches left unfilled.
Canada has the Rocky Mountaineer. With bubble dining cars. I went on it in 1996 when there was still smoking 😅 It still runs now. Most expensive way to travel still.
Canada also has the Canadian, which is the only named train in North America from the golden age of train travel that still runs in revenue service with its original equipment set.
Both Rivarossi and Con-Cor have offered ho scale models of pasenger cars painted in American Orient Express colors. The Rivarossi set also comes with two EMD E8A locomotive units which the real AOE didn't have. Most of the cars offered are not totally accurate but are at best a stand in.
Excellent as ever sir, you got a name check on Tom Drives channel citing you as a genuine enthusiast and not A.I generated thing- we knew that already, but kudos to you and indeed Tom for recognition!
The new LA-SF Dreamliner is going to revive luxury rail travel in the States, with a strong business travel angle. Its just 11 hours from LA-SF; and the cars will feature new designer-created interiors. Until HSR is completed, the Dreamliner will make a pleasure out of what is now a pretty rugged experience of overnight bus and a 6h 21m hour ride on the San Joaquin.
I live right outside DC. I flew to Chicago twice last year, it's not even a 3 hour flight. I've made the trip by car too, it's a bit over half a day with some rest stops. How they turned that into 6 days baffles me. And yeah. For scenery, there's almost nothing but crop fields and windmills past the Appalachian mountains. It makes highway hypnosis an ever present threat. The only reprieve is the big cities you pass through on the way. For reference, I drove from DC to NYC and back last weekend. There's way more variety to keep you engaged in terms of scenery. Nothing against the Midwest or those who live there (the reason I flew to Illinois was to visit my family there, my mom was born and raised in Peoria), but it's hardly scenic for the most part.
The AOE was a great concept as an excursion train experience aimed at travelers (mainly retirees) who were looking for a nostalgic trip of a lifetime. I've considered it but wasn't keen on the idea of stops & excursions at key points during the one way 5 day journey.
Gave my grampa a bachman taiyo orient express train set for Christmas one year. It was really really cool. Very expensive too. Too bad my uncle douchebag threw it away! When cleaning out grandpas house after he died. Would have loved have that to remember him by. Shame
We don't need lavish. Amtrak Superliners are perfect. Just encourage service, food and lower the f'n price! A room for two round trip is always $2000. Cant do it. Now, the new Siemens coach seats are so uncomfortable, I dont even want to travel five hours. I'm so sad for our trains.
Honestly, I always saw the American Orient Express as a novel concept, that just didn't quite pan out. It had a rocky start, but after reorganizations it became incredibly successful. In a way one could argue it was done purely out of nostalgia for the trains of old, but I see it as both that as well as unique luxury tourist attraction. This was really the last hoorah for private express passenger trains in the United States. By the time of its inauguration, passenger rail travel in the US was on the brink of extinction in Amtrak's early years, and pouring millions into a project such as this is admittedly laughable considering the decline in passenger numbers. The fact that the people behind the scheme never gave up after the rocky starts is also something to take note of. The AOE was definitely a unique travel experience that harkened back to luxury streamliners of the 1930s and 40s. In fact I'd argue it was on par with another private luxury rail experience from the 70s, the auto-train. Both of these focused on providing passengers with a fun and enjoyable experience, rather than a simple point-to-point trip. But in the end both had to concede that luxury rail travel like the days of old was long gone. Both had strong markets and steady streams of customers, but it was both freight congestion and piling costs that ended both ventures. I think it's definitely possible that the AOE could possibly return, but at the moment it seems unlikely. The rail industry is a very different place now compared to the early 2000s. But, never say never. An excellent presentation. Well done.
The American Orient Express was never intended to be for mass passenger service, or to turn the national network around. It was always intended to be a cruise train, much like the Rocky Mountaineer, Midland Pullman, its European counterpart, or any number of other such charter luxury services in the UK. The fact Rocky Mountaineer is expanding into the US now is proof that the concept of the AOE was sound - just too far ahead of its time, because the American public of the 1990s and 2000s still saw trains only as rickety amusement rides rather than a possible mode of luxury travel. Auto Train fell victim to the same problem. Rather than offer a cruise service, they tried to build a network. The failed expansion to Louisville is what broke the company - but if the basic idea wasn't sound, Amtrak wouldn't still be running it. Nor would it be the only long-distance Amtrak route to make a profit.
They were from a travel documentary that primarily featured the American Orient Express from LA to Seattle, and included a day trip on the Napa Valley Wine Train in the middle of the trip. I remember it from when I was a kid, and even found it again here on UA-cam recently.
once the zombie fuel and automobidiot cartels had done their number selling N Americans the bill of goods that is "car culture", passenger rail on the continent was dead. this was a service that was for the rich. and the rich have their own modes of travel, none of which involve having to deal with the hoi polloi, or anyone other than their servants.
The biggest problem is that the US puts about 8 billion for passenger train’s infrastructure and about 60 billion for roads. Also freight trains own most of the rails in the US and get priority over Amtrak and the other commuter trains. Therefore Congress would need to put more money in rail and less money to roads for a lower fairs.
This kind of travel will only return when the people become smarter again and return to having 'style' and 'taste'. Two things that died somewhere in the 80's. The decline of this stile can clearly be seen in the dress sense. Just look at 5:18, a t-shirt is not dressed, it's for home, bed, back yard or the gym, basically: under wear.
On another note: Americans obviously have no idea what or where the 'orient' is. Everything, just absolutely everything has become chicken class in the last 30 years due to the lack of taste and style.
Look, English as a language is not in the American constitution. We, everybody can call everything as we please. Some of us speak way more than just American, so we might have more information than you will ever have.
Except for the somewhat profitable Northeast Corridor, there is no business case for passenger rail in the US. Those profits from the corridor are lost and along with taxpayer subsidies to funding unprofitable AMTRAK routes.
Government's job is to give the taxpayers whatever they need or want. It is not government's job to give such poor service that taxpayers beg for an end of service. Such was the initial mission of the newly formed AMTRAK.
Profit is not the goal of public services, but profits would certainly increase if Amtrak were allowed to run frequent and reliable services. The Northeast Cooridor proves this, as does the smashing success of the new Borealis service or even Brightline. There's no demand for infrequent and unreliable anything, but to pretend passenger trains must be so makes one either an idiot or a liar.
@gonzoengineering4894 By Congressional decree Amtrak must try to make a profit. Fat chance. Even when private railroads ran their passenger service, many times the profits came from the freight side of the house, and some of the passenger service )expenses were covered by freight profits. As free freeways were built and airlines charged low initial prices, passengers carried by rail continued to plunge. Service quality plunged as well. Then, the killer. Railroad post office contracts were canceled, and ALL shifted over to the airlines and trucks operating on those new, free, high-speed highways. Odd that the killer (the government) ended up taking over and offering passenger rail service. Passenger trains running on freight railroad tracks. How crazy was that? And, outside the Northeast corridor, it still is that way. A country 36 trillion dollars in debt hardly has the spare cash to make improvements passengers can see and enjoy. Sporadically, money is found somewhere, and Amtrak continues to limp along. Like a rabid family pet, no one wants to end its life, but little attention is given to improving it to more reasonable standards. And on it goes. The bastard stepchild only a few politicians and the public seem to love.
Having travelled around the UK by rail in the 80s and 90s - my first time experiencing Amtrak from LA to NYC felt like absolute luxury.
However Amtrak trains frequently get delayed heavily because generally they use freight lines. Having said that Amtrak is an experience, in my case from Portland OR to Oakland CA. As neighboring states clearly not as long as your CA to NY.
FYI Rocky Mountaineer currently provides the ultra-lux rail excursion service in North America, but its limited to those lines which have slack capacity. My friend did the Banff run, which is overnight and about $4000/person. They also run Denver to Moab, UT.
This isn't entirely true. While RM does take advantage of the mostly abandoned former BC Rail Cariboo line and the Great Northern from Prince George to Jasper, it otherwise operates on Canada's two busiest lines: CN and CP from Vancouver to Jasper and Banff, respectively. Those are anything but lightly used lines, carrying every kilo of Canadian rail freight across the country.
It should be noted that the Rocky Mountaineer was created by VIA Rail (Canada's answer to Amtrak), but the conservative government of the 1990s forced VIA to divest of its only profitable Western service as part of the Canadian equivalent of the Beeching Cuts (the 1990 VIA cuts).
Please do more American railroading content. I'd love to see a history of some American locomotives in the same vein that you do histories for BR types.
I agree with this concept, although I'd leave the question of focus up to Mr. MacVeigh. That said, channels like High Iron are excellent at talking about steam locomotive designs, while there are numerous other niches left unfilled.
Canada has the Rocky Mountaineer. With bubble dining cars. I went on it in 1996 when there was still smoking 😅
It still runs now. Most expensive way to travel still.
RM also runs Denver to Moab.
Canada also has the Canadian, which is the only named train in North America from the golden age of train travel that still runs in revenue service with its original equipment set.
Both Rivarossi and Con-Cor have offered ho scale models of pasenger cars painted in American Orient Express colors. The Rivarossi set also comes with two EMD E8A locomotive units which the real AOE didn't have. Most of the cars offered are not totally accurate but are at best a stand in.
Excellent as ever sir, you got a name check on Tom Drives channel citing you as a genuine enthusiast and not A.I generated thing- we knew that already, but kudos to you and indeed Tom for recognition!
The new LA-SF Dreamliner is going to revive luxury rail travel in the States, with a strong business travel angle. Its just 11 hours from LA-SF; and the cars will feature new designer-created interiors. Until HSR is completed, the Dreamliner will make a pleasure out of what is now a pretty rugged experience of overnight bus and a 6h 21m hour ride on the San Joaquin.
Always love to hear Ruairidh say 'Saint Louie' for 'St. Louis'. 😉
I live right outside DC. I flew to Chicago twice last year, it's not even a 3 hour flight. I've made the trip by car too, it's a bit over half a day with some rest stops. How they turned that into 6 days baffles me.
And yeah. For scenery, there's almost nothing but crop fields and windmills past the Appalachian mountains. It makes highway hypnosis an ever present threat. The only reprieve is the big cities you pass through on the way.
For reference, I drove from DC to NYC and back last weekend. There's way more variety to keep you engaged in terms of scenery. Nothing against the Midwest or those who live there (the reason I flew to Illinois was to visit my family there, my mom was born and raised in Peoria), but it's hardly scenic for the most part.
The AOE was a great concept as an excursion train experience aimed at travelers (mainly retirees) who were looking for a nostalgic trip of a lifetime. I've considered it but wasn't keen on the idea of stops & excursions at key points during the one way 5 day journey.
Gave my grampa a bachman taiyo orient express train set for Christmas one year. It was really really cool. Very expensive too. Too bad my uncle douchebag threw it away! When cleaning out grandpas house after he died. Would have loved have that to remember him by. Shame
We don't need lavish. Amtrak Superliners are perfect. Just encourage service, food and lower the f'n price! A room for two round trip is always $2000. Cant do it. Now, the new Siemens coach seats are so uncomfortable, I dont even want to travel five hours. I'm so sad for our trains.
Honestly, I always saw the American Orient Express as a novel concept, that just didn't quite pan out. It had a rocky start, but after reorganizations it became incredibly successful. In a way one could argue it was done purely out of nostalgia for the trains of old, but I see it as both that as well as unique luxury tourist attraction. This was really the last hoorah for private express passenger trains in the United States. By the time of its inauguration, passenger rail travel in the US was on the brink of extinction in Amtrak's early years, and pouring millions into a project such as this is admittedly laughable considering the decline in passenger numbers.
The fact that the people behind the scheme never gave up after the rocky starts is also something to take note of. The AOE was definitely a unique travel experience that harkened back to luxury streamliners of the 1930s and 40s. In fact I'd argue it was on par with another private luxury rail experience from the 70s, the auto-train. Both of these focused on providing passengers with a fun and enjoyable experience, rather than a simple point-to-point trip. But in the end both had to concede that luxury rail travel like the days of old was long gone. Both had strong markets and steady streams of customers, but it was both freight congestion and piling costs that ended both ventures.
I think it's definitely possible that the AOE could possibly return, but at the moment it seems unlikely. The rail industry is a very different place now compared to the early 2000s. But, never say never.
An excellent presentation. Well done.
The American Orient Express was never intended to be for mass passenger service, or to turn the national network around. It was always intended to be a cruise train, much like the Rocky Mountaineer, Midland Pullman, its European counterpart, or any number of other such charter luxury services in the UK. The fact Rocky Mountaineer is expanding into the US now is proof that the concept of the AOE was sound - just too far ahead of its time, because the American public of the 1990s and 2000s still saw trains only as rickety amusement rides rather than a possible mode of luxury travel.
Auto Train fell victim to the same problem. Rather than offer a cruise service, they tried to build a network. The failed expansion to Louisville is what broke the company - but if the basic idea wasn't sound, Amtrak wouldn't still be running it. Nor would it be the only long-distance Amtrak route to make a profit.
i remember an old DVD with the train, on one of its later runs, along with the empire builder, and other trains
My i never knew the part of our train history many thanks
The elderly express lol.
Maybe I missed something, but I fail to understand the significance of the Napa Valley Wine Train clips.
They were from a travel documentary that primarily featured the American Orient Express from LA to Seattle, and included a day trip on the Napa Valley Wine Train in the middle of the trip. I remember it from when I was a kid, and even found it again here on UA-cam recently.
Just another popular, and successful, luxury rail ride in the USA.
Via still has Canadian & Ocean and Still first Class
At least I have a model of it
Why do you have the Napa wine Train in the story😊
0:26 I've Didn't Know Amtrak Did Have A Orient Express Train In The United States Of America. Thanks Mate. XXxxx 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 🇺🇸
Amtrak likely just provided, for a fee, the locomotives. Amtrak never owned the American Orient Express.
It no longer runs.
It was operated with Amtrak locomotives and operations crews as an Amtrak special but was privately owned.
I worked for them in 2000 and 2001.
once the zombie fuel and automobidiot cartels had done their number
selling N Americans the bill of goods that is "car culture",
passenger rail on the continent was dead.
this was a service that was for the rich.
and the rich have their own modes of travel,
none of which involve having to deal with the hoi polloi,
or anyone other than their servants.
Give me a $100 seat or a $300 room to start.
The biggest problem is that the US puts about 8 billion for passenger train’s infrastructure and about 60 billion for roads. Also freight trains own most of the rails in the US and get priority over Amtrak and the other commuter trains. Therefore Congress would need to put more money in rail and less money to roads for a lower fairs.
I guess Land Cruises would be more popular if one could fit the Amenities of a Cruise Ship in a Train.
Yeah, the full-sized pool was always a problem.
I wish rail was better in this country.
The Rockies By Rail anyone?
Americans once again shouting proudly to the world...they don't want to know geography.
This kind of travel will only return when the people become smarter again and return to having 'style' and 'taste'. Two things that died somewhere in the 80's. The decline of this stile can clearly be seen in the dress sense. Just look at 5:18, a t-shirt is not dressed, it's for home, bed, back yard or the gym, basically: under wear.
I sincerely hope that AMTRAK survives intact after 4 years of Trump.
Those who don't get my previous remarks: For this occasion you 'dress' formally, not dress to empty the septic tank.
passenger trains in america never make any money.
This statement is patently false.
This is a lie told to keep passenger rail minimized.
Look at the sources.
Airlines and automakers.
On another note: Americans obviously have no idea what or where the 'orient' is. Everything, just absolutely everything has become chicken class in the last 30 years due to the lack of taste and style.
Why do you never pronounce St. Louis correctly?
Look, English as a language is not in the American constitution. We, everybody can call everything as we please. Some of us speak way more than just American, so we might have more information than you will ever have.
@MrWage I bet you couldn't pronounce every UK place correctly.
@@drstevenreyI’m inclined to agree there.
This is an AI voice.
@ I don’t think it is
Except for the somewhat profitable Northeast Corridor, there is no business case for passenger rail in the US. Those profits from the corridor are lost and along with taxpayer subsidies to funding unprofitable AMTRAK routes.
Government's job is to give the taxpayers whatever they need or want. It is not government's job to give such poor service that taxpayers beg for an end of service. Such was the initial mission of the newly formed AMTRAK.
Profit is not the goal of public services, but profits would certainly increase if Amtrak were allowed to run frequent and reliable services. The Northeast Cooridor proves this, as does the smashing success of the new Borealis service or even Brightline. There's no demand for infrequent and unreliable anything, but to pretend passenger trains must be so makes one either an idiot or a liar.
There is also no business case for building interstate highways that people drive on for free. They survive on enormous subsidies.
@gonzoengineering4894 By Congressional decree Amtrak must try to make a profit. Fat chance. Even when private railroads ran their passenger service, many times the profits came from the freight side of the house, and some of the passenger service )expenses were covered by freight profits. As free freeways were built and airlines charged low initial prices, passengers carried by rail continued to plunge. Service quality plunged as well. Then, the killer. Railroad post office contracts were canceled, and ALL shifted over to the airlines and trucks operating on those new, free, high-speed highways. Odd that the killer (the government) ended up taking over and offering passenger rail service. Passenger trains running on freight railroad tracks. How crazy was that? And, outside the Northeast corridor, it still is that way. A country 36 trillion dollars in debt hardly has the spare cash to make improvements passengers can see and enjoy. Sporadically, money is found somewhere, and Amtrak continues to limp along. Like a rabid family pet, no one wants to end its life, but little attention is given to improving it to more reasonable standards. And on it goes. The bastard stepchild only a few politicians and the public seem to love.