I’m an experienced winter camper as well. I would close your presentation with an observation I’ve made for years. Money buys happiness if you’re a camper. You can’t safely winter camp without investing in proper equipment. Excellent presentation.
Goes with the saying "Travel Light, sleep cold at night" I solved "cold feet" problem by buying 100% overfilled GooseFeet Down booties. My feet only need keep the bootie interior warm, not the entire footbox of the sleeping bag. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada U.S.A.
Superb, especially the cold floor separation, down bag and synth quilt combo, plus the down hood. As I was taught many moons ago, "Any fool can be cold and uncomfortable."
For any girls winter/tent camping in general (who can't use a pee bottle): my best hack is to double pee before night time, lol. Pee once before you do your night chores (brushing teeth etc) and then again after, right before you step into the tent. That usually helps prevent having to step up in the middle of the night
A sleep system with a front fly would be great. Then using the armholes and front fly, one could stand in the sleep system and use a hard-sided pee funnel like the tinklebell, to pee in a bottle, without exiting the sleep system.
Nice video. Some additions/thoughts: Best baselayers ime are fishnet/netting or high void grid fleece. They feel warmer and more comfortable in both very cold, and cold and wet conditions. This is because they always keep a layer of dry air between your skin and the next layer of (potentially wetted out, heat sink) fabric. And since the moisture is evaporating off your skin directly (mostly, some will get wicked into the netting and also into the next layers), you get less of the super flash cold effect (like with more traditional baselayers like thin, wicking polyester increase surface area and speed up evaporation, which can lead to flash cold effect). They are also really nice to vent while hiking wearing a windjacket. The windjacket's zipper + fishnetting or high void grid fleece allows you to dump more moisture and heat faster when active. Polypropylene doesn't make a good baselayer so much because it gets really stinky quick, but it does make a nice mid layer because it is quite hydrophobic, light weight, and fairly insulative (though a lot of that depends on the fiber size and the thickness of the garment). Kapok fiber makes an excellent insulation fill for small to small-medium sized items like mittens, booties, insulative hoods, etc. This is because it has insulation similar to 500 fp duck down but doesn't collapse when wet like down and it is quite hydrophobic because of the thick wax coating on each of the fibers. The downside is that it doesn't compress as much as down (why you can't use it for larger items like quilts/bags or even jackets), and has a bit less insulation per weight and volume as compared to higher quality downs. But it is better than synthetics as to warmth to weight ratio, while being very hydrophobic, and unlike synthetics it is a sustainable, non polluting product. In the shelter you are using, put some velcro/hook & loop tabs on key areas. Cut aluminized mylar (space blankets) to size and shape and put corresponding velcro/hook & loop tabs on the spaceblankets (you might want to reinforce the corners and hook & loop areas with woven fabric). Make sure there is a bit of air space between the tent fabric and the mylar space blankets. This will do two things simultaneously. It will slightly lower/limit convective and conductive heat loss (via a thin layer of moderately stilled air) and it will reflect your IR heat energy back to you. Works really well with beeswax candles. This especially makes a significant difference when you are camped out in an open area with no trees above you and clear skies. In those conditions, some of your IR is lost to the cold vacuum of space which can make you even colder than ambient temps. VBL's are almost a necessity at temps like -50*F. With that said, I have wondered about the following in lieu of same--a kind of two birds, one stone solution (this is best when also using a pulk since it involves some extra bulk). Get a lightweight vacuum insulated panel or two that is almost as wide and is as long as your core (so 1 to 1.5 ft by 2. to 3ft or so). Put the VIP* in a lightweight fleece (or similar fabric) pillow for skin comfort. Now, sew up a smaller sized down quilt up the middle twice with the stitches near each other but with a little space. Cut said quilt down the middle in between the stitches. Sew some hook & loop to the sides of the fabric pillow that the VIP(s) will go in. Sew some corresponding hook and loop to the opposite sides of the down quilt. So you have the VIP in the middle that goes over your core area that will not be affected by moisture or wind at all and will have a very high R value per weight (well depending on the materials used, but for an inch thick it will be around R27) and thickness (down side is that it is not compressible--hence why best used with a pulk system). The down /fabric sides are for helping to hold in the heat for around the rest of your body. Tbh, VIP's would be even better for a sleeping mat system, especially combined with some soft foam or kapok cushioning pillows--it would be fool proof, extremely insulating solution (again, best combined with a pulk because of the extra bulk).
Great setup but I have ide / advice I used all the time in the Norwegian army. It’s a survival sack called “jerven duk. I put my entire sleeping arrangement inside it. This way you are more stable and won’t risk roling off or getting parts on the snow. Also it increases the insulation a lot and gives a much better chance at moving the frostpoint outside your sleepingbag.
I took your advice and bought the Therm-a-Rest neoair xtherm 6.9R. It was the last one in stock at a dealer in British Columbia. If I buy the new one it will be $103 extra with the tax. I also got a ridge rest foam to put underneath it. I just put together my first winter sleep system. I got the Snugpak Antarctica sleeping bag, Arctic mat, a fleece liner and to keep everything off the snow a German Army elephant skin tarp. I do not have a top quilt but I have a summer sleeping bag from the same company that could be used for that purpose.
Living in Norway and know a thing or two about cold, and how to behave in cold winters. U didnt mention it in your video so i say it. Your biggest enemy to stay outside this cold is sweat. Every time u feel abit warmer, relax. Your armpit is good indication, if its slightly moist, chill down. Wool is the best to have on your body as first layer. Reason is that it dont loose any isolation properties before it reaches around 50 percent water. I dont recommend to try this. If u overdo your protections against the cold u can die. If u underdo your protections against the cold u can die....
Floorless tents are nice in the snow. If you had a floor it's just going to get full of snow and later, ice. One thing I do with my tipi is pile snow around the edges to prevent drafts, but it would be less effort if it had a snow skirt.
Please please give advice on how to keep toes warm. Just came back from a snow camping trip (-10C) and my toes were numb all the time! This is even with waterproof boots and thick merino wool socks.
Not always the case, but often if your toes/fingers are cold you aren't dressing warm enough. Your body will always focus on keeping your head and core warm, and will draw heat from the extremities to protect them
-10C is getting into the insulated boot (or overboot) range. A thin piece of closed cell foam under your insole can prevent the cold from working its way into your boot as well. Too much sock with too little room can also reduce the circulation in your feet making them colder. Loosen the laces or try a higher volume boot to accommodate another layer. Foot warmers can overcome an underinsulated boot as well. Just make sure there's enough air exchange for them to work.
I'd be using neoprene inner boots between my thick merino socks and an insulated boot for loger outings, but my wool socks and boots seem to work fine till about 10f (-12c), so make sure your socks are actually 80%+ wool, and that your boots aren't slowly accepting water. I wax mine, but many other treatments exist too.
Remove socks and place feet back into boots, elevate on wool blankets and set alarm for 15 minutes and relax as much as possible. Socks can make feet cold due to much " wicking " action.
I use reflectix, closed cell reflective accordion, S2S etherlite xt, Marmot Col, S2S traveller. Rab Positron, merino jammers, darn tough Alpines, columbia thermarator beanie. Tent is the msr remote 3. -30 degrees F and the zippers are frozen from condensation. But, I love love love winter camping. Even my whisper lite is hard to ignite.
Would be interesting to see a video from you on Vapor Barrier Layers. Andrew Skurka’s article on them regarding multi-day winter trips is really interesting
Mike Kraut: The whole time I watched this clip I was thinking ‘I wonder if he knows about the VBL?’ and ‘I wonder how heavy that synthetic quilt will get before he has to dry it out from his perspiration?’
If your planning on being out for several days or on anything like high altitude mountaineering or arctic exploration where you will be in sustained temps below 0 a Vapor barrier bag is a must. Not only will it prevent moisture into your sleeping bag layer which has the potential to freeze inside of your sleep system but the heat that is radiated from your sleeping bag can dry other things like socks and hats if you lay them on the top of your sleeping bag. I climbed Denali and the coldest ambient temperature inside of our tent was only -28 F but even in temps like that I would never not have a vbl liner for both my boots and sleeping setup, it easily adds 10-15 degrees in warmth.
If it's going to be well below minus 20 C and I'm on the ground, I don't use inflatable pads. If an inflatable pad fails at minus 10 C and you still have a closed cell pad, you'll have a miserable night but survive. Below minus 20 C, you'll be worse than miserable. I use a ground cloth, closed cell foam pad and an open cell foam pad on top of that. If there's enough snow, I'll dig a sleep trench and pitch my tipi-tent over that. 75 cm or so down in the snow is usually just a bit below 0 C and out of the wind. I also use a vapor barrier shirt, pants and socks. Your body will have less insensible perspiration that way. It also keeps you better hydrated and prevents your skin from getting scaly dry. It tends to be much warmer than most baselayers, and it keeps your other layers dry from any perspiration. You will need to take those layers off at least once a day. Turn them inside out, let any moisture flash freeze, then brush it off before putting it back on. Regarding the pee bottle, your core will try to shed volume to preserve its temperature. Cold kidneys means more nature calls. A pair of handwarmers on your back near your kidneys will reduce that need (and keep you more hydrated). As far as trying to go outside of the tent at minus 40 or less, you can get a flash freeze on those parts if they're exposed. At extremely low temps, it's important to have at least two ways to accomplish the same result. A leaking airpad can be catastrophic. A campstove incident or a leaking water bottle can trash your down. A broken pole can mean no tent. You don't need to bring two of everything, but do have ways to overcome equipment failure. Also a good idea to always have a thermos full of a hot liquid to warm you enough to keep hypothermia from setting in and have a couple of chem warmers already going. By the time you're shivering, you might not be able to light a stove or tear open a chem warmer.
Will you be doing a review of the xTherm NXT ..... and did they say when in 2023 it will be released? Was about to get a NeoAir XTherm Max Regular Wide but now thinking I should wait.
lots of good advice Well done The coldest I’ve been backpacking/snowshoeing at -40 was the winter of 77 in the Green mountains of Vermont on the Long Trail
I learned my winter camping from the people who did it as a way of life. Canada's Inuit people. People who weren't trying to sell me something but hunting for food. I taught my 2 girls what I learned. Camping in a tent at -50, I don't think so.
I slept at - 10 C degrees and at those temperatures found the key factor in a sleeping bag to be zipper insulation. Folding tubes do not suffice to prevent freezing drafts. While i welcome arms openings, i am very wary that to be a sound choice for heat manegement. I think the hood is well designed
My Western Mountaineering Puma sleeping bag is my secret weapon to being warm in very cold conditions. I've used it with an X-Therm on it's own (only one pad) down to it's rated -32C and been warm in just base layers, and I'm a hella cold sleeper. I have the MF version, so it's a very light 1.7kg for the warmth. At 2.2kg for pad and bag, it's so much warmth for the weight, it's nuts. Downsides are cost and this works best in a tent or under a tarp as the microfiber shell on the bag is very moisture resistant, but not able to be truly out in the weather. I've used tarps and tents and prefer the shelter of tents and the weight of tarps, lol. My current winter ski-mountaineering rig is an older Black Diamond Squall, sleeps three in comfort with room to spare and has withstood some serious storms on the Columbia Icefields. At 1.2kg/person, it's not a bad weight/person for a bomber shelter. Sadly, no longer made by BD.
I just picked up the same sleeping bag after a couple of years of research. Glad to read your comments about it. I am looking forward to trying it out in the cold.
Any & all Western Mountaineering are world class sleeping bags & their temperature ratings are conservative, not exaggerated. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada U.S.A.
I just ordered the Reg Wide version of the Xthern. I'm about your body size. Have you used the wide? Is the extra weight & width worth it?? Also, I was thinking about using a quilt down base layer since I own a -6 vasper, and synthetic sleeping bag over it. Have you used that combo? Incredible page! Learning so much! Thank you.
Check out the clothes people wear who work in huge freezers or airports in freezing temperatures. I have a green one-piece suit good to -50°. Its what I wear and sleep in. Right on the snow. They are impressive. I'd love for you to do a review on them. I know you're gonna love it! Keep it up my guy, you're a savage!!
For extreme cold, my 2 cents: -Use whool and synthetics that keep insulation value when wet, your life may depend on it. -No cotton, down, flannel, nor fleece for same reason. -For socks, buffs and beanies: only whool. -Use a liner in your sleeping bag, to keep bag dry and clean. -Use a goretex bivybag over your sleeping bag, for wind barrier. Keep it zipped open though, to let moist escape. -If your feet keep getting cold, keep your pants on in your bag, but slide them down so that only feet and lower leg are in it. You can also prop up the footbox a bit with small blanket or sweater. -Do not use gear that weighs 540kg 😂
I wouldn't use anything wool except socks it never dries out. Nothing wrong with down. 99% of the time in -30 getting your bag wet is highly unlikely. Synthetic and wool blankets or bags are 3 times the weight and bulk then down for equal warmth. I have a feeling from your comment that you are not packing your camping gear on your back. I've camped in low Temps lots and never have I gotten gear wet with the exception of my socks from sweat.
The only one question: why not fleece? Yes it doesn't warm you well when wet but it dries very fast and work great to transfer moist to outer layers, while wool doesn't dry. Good fleece is probably a best synthetics for under layers. What is that synthetics you mention that keeps you warm when wet?
Very nice combination of padding equating to about R10! The coldest I have slept out is zero deg. F. I was okay in my zero degree bag, however, it was very hard to sleep breathing in all that cold air. I often covered up the opening, which is the last thing you should do. It lowered the effective warmth of my bag and gave me a CO2 headache the next day!
Wow! Snow. I don’t believe we’ll be getting any more of that here in the UK. 40 below is merely theoretical where I am. Did your commenter suggest caribou skins? I’ll pop to the shops to get a couple tomorrow. Seriously…great video. I was getting bragging rights for bivi’ing at minus 4 a few years ago! I will never mention that again.
I’ve camped many times above the arctic circle, in the winter. I’d agree mostly. Gasified fuel won’t work at cold temps. Liquid or keep your gas in your crotch to keep it warm. Nalgene with boiling water in your sleeping bag foot box is great for the feet. If solo or with a buddy, a mid style floor less is great. If a lady friend joins, I take my trango3. Candle lanterns help a ton with moisture and heat. Or if my lady joins practice making babies creates a lot of good heat in the tent. No bugs. No crowds. Pulk sleds behind xc skis, can’t beat it. Final note. Snow makes great TP. It is cold, but it works and honestly very refreshing after the shock of it.
Great informative video! I had a couple questions, I only plan on doing winter overnights at temps of 0-10 degrees. I have a Thermarest Parsec 0 bag, a WM Badger 15 bag, and a 20 degree UGQ Down top quilt. Do you still suggest getting a synthetic top quilt to supplement whichever sleeping bag I use, the 0 or 15? Should it be a 40 degree Apex quilt in Wide?
Excellent and efficient explanation! I wonder if you have read some of the testing and summaries on backpackinglight about baselayer materials and wicking. If you can get through all the technical explanations, it really grounds you in what to expect from different materials.
Go buy a US GI extreme cold weather bag with vapor barrier. I've slept on the ground in -35 with a closed cell foam pad underneath , and stayed toasty warm. $50 at surplus stores. Call me cheap if you want. Also, slept in the snow in the French alps with a down bag and Gortex bivy cover. Closed cell foam pad, underneath. (French Foreign Legion, 2eme REI) Jungle sleeping hints to follow!!😅
New subscriber. Can you advise the exact name of your tipi tent that you use. I’ve used your link which only brings you to the site and not the item. Love your videos, they’re very informative!
@@greindl86 Two ways. VBL socks like you mentioned. Or highly breathable footwear like mukluks that let the perspiration out with it freezing on the outside. Mukluks are great with snowshoes, but they're bad on technical terrain.
Great video Justin. I use that same pee bottle. Just a suggestion for those interested...rinse it out if possible before you collapse it up when you pack up.😀
Your missing a breathing box. I lived outside 43 days last year and pretty much reduced to about what you have here. Plus a breather box. Find one of those accordion laundry hamper rings. Mine has two loops to hold it as a ring.. Leave one done so it creates a 90 bend and wear it over your head as structure. Cover your head with a tarp. Ice will build up in the tarp but the thin screen will keep it lofted and the ice out. Cover your upper body and shoulders with the tarp rather loosely. Perhaps cover with a blanket even. Rebreathing moist air will help you stay asleep. Sleep with water bottles in between your legs as well as anything you can't freeze. Batteries.. Your phone.. Etc etc.
Is there anything you would have to add to this idea I've got a trip planned this January to go mountian climbing for a few weeks. I've thought about buying a cot looked at the hellinox cot we will have decent elevation and negative Temps I don't wanna deal with a tents condensation so I thought about a nice tarp and a cot thanks.
"I've thought about buying a cot" A cot will be colder like a hammock. A sleeping pad and the ground will reach an equilibrium between you and the ground. The air under the cot never warms as it is replaced. Your pad will keep losing heat from the bottom on a cot. You also probably don't want to be fulling with assembling a cot at the end of the day with cold fingers.
👆THIS! Outstanding video! You immediately got to the point of the video- gave short concise accurate information and provided perfect examples of said points. No bs 30 second cringe intros.. no 8th grade essay outlines followed by a “let’s get into it!”. And (IMO most importantly) no pandering with completely unrelated sponsor commercials. The fine art of shoehorning 5 minutes of information into a 20 minute video is out of control on UA-cam. THANK YOU my new Canadian friend. Respect.
Another great video Justin. Curious as to why you choose to sleep in your Ultamid 2 vs a 4 season tent that would trap some heat? I have the Ultamid 2 plus a couple Hilleberg's (Soulo and Unna) and I'd rather sleep in the Hilleberg's in winter!
Way roomier for a lot less weight! The Ultamid 4 is only ~500g/1lb and I can have my full sleep system in there, my pack and gear, and still have room for a chair and to stretch my legs out.
A 3 inch Thermarest, that my be my first purchase from them. Now you’re talking comfort for heavy and or side sleep people. Great R value, do they have a rectangular version? You do a good showing of a variety of gear.
@@shawnr6117 Jan/Feb 2023. I think the improvements are marginal and if it allows you to get the current version at a big discount, I'd take the discount.
@@JustinOutdoors that's what I was thinking . Got any recommendations for budget winter tents? I was considering the decathlon (mh 100?) or a similar one from Mountain Warehouse. Both have mostly solid inners and are $50-$60 cad but also have fiberglass poles so not sure if they are a good choice for a winter starter tent.
-60 (including wind chill) is beyond brutal. -40 gives you a few minutes until your face outside your scarf starts to freeze, but with heavy windchill its like knives or boiling water the moment your skin touches the air.
- 24 with blankets in a car didn't much like it . Moisture becomes an issue don't recommend it moisture in the vehicle becomes an issue. I did find layers helped alot 2 sweaters + a jacket and blankets. I did get frostbite on my thumb tip or almost grtting into bed dressing down. Drink lots of fluids because you use them for heat also eating before bed helps keep you warm. Don't drink anything cold before bed . A hot thermos for tea incase you wake up cold in the night. Wind really takes alot heat away so break the wind big time.
Doesn't it make more sense to have the Nemo foam pad with the silver /reflective side facing upwards? I believe that's the way they're supposed to be used. It doesn't really make any sense to me that the reflective layer can reflect 'up'. That's not reflection!
I’m an experienced winter camper as well. I would close your presentation with an observation I’ve made for years. Money buys happiness if you’re a camper. You can’t safely winter camp without investing in proper equipment. Excellent presentation.
Goes with the saying "Travel Light, sleep cold at night"
I solved "cold feet" problem by buying 100% overfilled GooseFeet Down booties. My feet only need keep the bootie interior warm, not the entire footbox of the sleeping bag.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada U.S.A.
Superb, especially the cold floor separation, down bag and synth quilt combo, plus the down hood. As I was taught many moons ago, "Any fool can be cold and uncomfortable."
For any girls winter/tent camping in general (who can't use a pee bottle): my best hack is to double pee before night time, lol. Pee once before you do your night chores (brushing teeth etc) and then again after, right before you step into the tent. That usually helps prevent having to step up in the middle of the night
seems like double the effort for something that can just be done once
And DONT drink for 3 or more hours prior to bedtime 🙂
Aaaand, they actually make pee bottles designed for girls!! Mine are pink. 😁
@@internetshortscomp5810 Haha so's getting up from your sleeping bag late at night cause you only went once before bedtime
A sleep system with a front fly would be great. Then using the armholes and front fly, one could stand in the sleep system and use a hard-sided pee funnel like the tinklebell, to pee in a bottle, without exiting the sleep system.
I have experienced -40 in Mohe, China, but only for a few hours, the warm room was calling. Fascinated by the cold as I am from Australia.
That quilt looks fantastic but I'm not sure I could carry 540kg!! 😂 Great video Justin 👍
It's worth it for the warmth! :P
@@JustinOutdoors I think there's been a typo! 540 kg is equal to 1,188 Lbs! I believe you meant grams!
Great video, thanks! Just a little heads up that you got a typo in there. The relevation apex surely weights 540g, not 540kg 🙂
I always miss something! 🙇
Nah he's just that jacked he can carry that much 🤣
@@platesweightspeaks I was gonna say!
WOW! After trying to find a video of -40 for the last 2 hours of search, here it is!!!
Yt search sucks!!!
Your video ROCKS!!!
THANKS!
Nice video. Some additions/thoughts:
Best baselayers ime are fishnet/netting or high void grid fleece. They feel warmer and more comfortable in both very cold, and cold and wet conditions. This is because they always keep a layer of dry air between your skin and the next layer of (potentially wetted out, heat sink) fabric. And since the moisture is evaporating off your skin directly (mostly, some will get wicked into the netting and also into the next layers), you get less of the super flash cold effect (like with more traditional baselayers like thin, wicking polyester increase surface area and speed up evaporation, which can lead to flash cold effect). They are also really nice to vent while hiking wearing a windjacket. The windjacket's zipper + fishnetting or high void grid fleece allows you to dump more moisture and heat faster when active.
Polypropylene doesn't make a good baselayer so much because it gets really stinky quick, but it does make a nice mid layer because it is quite hydrophobic, light weight, and fairly insulative (though a lot of that depends on the fiber size and the thickness of the garment).
Kapok fiber makes an excellent insulation fill for small to small-medium sized items like mittens, booties, insulative hoods, etc. This is because it has insulation similar to 500 fp duck down but doesn't collapse when wet like down and it is quite hydrophobic because of the thick wax coating on each of the fibers. The downside is that it doesn't compress as much as down (why you can't use it for larger items like quilts/bags or even jackets), and has a bit less insulation per weight and volume as compared to higher quality downs. But it is better than synthetics as to warmth to weight ratio, while being very hydrophobic, and unlike synthetics it is a sustainable, non polluting product.
In the shelter you are using, put some velcro/hook & loop tabs on key areas. Cut aluminized mylar (space blankets) to size and shape and put corresponding velcro/hook & loop tabs on the spaceblankets (you might want to reinforce the corners and hook & loop areas with woven fabric). Make sure there is a bit of air space between the tent fabric and the mylar space blankets. This will do two things simultaneously. It will slightly lower/limit convective and conductive heat loss (via a thin layer of moderately stilled air) and it will reflect your IR heat energy back to you. Works really well with beeswax candles. This especially makes a significant difference when you are camped out in an open area with no trees above you and clear skies. In those conditions, some of your IR is lost to the cold vacuum of space which can make you even colder than ambient temps.
VBL's are almost a necessity at temps like -50*F. With that said, I have wondered about the following in lieu of same--a kind of two birds, one stone solution (this is best when also using a pulk since it involves some extra bulk). Get a lightweight vacuum insulated panel or two that is almost as wide and is as long as your core (so 1 to 1.5 ft by 2. to 3ft or so). Put the VIP* in a lightweight fleece (or similar fabric) pillow for skin comfort.
Now, sew up a smaller sized down quilt up the middle twice with the stitches near each other but with a little space. Cut said quilt down the middle in between the stitches. Sew some hook & loop to the sides of the fabric pillow that the VIP(s) will go in. Sew some corresponding hook and loop to the opposite sides of the down quilt. So you have the VIP in the middle that goes over your core area that will not be affected by moisture or wind at all and will have a very high R value per weight (well depending on the materials used, but for an inch thick it will be around R27) and thickness (down side is that it is not compressible--hence why best used with a pulk system). The down /fabric sides are for helping to hold in the heat for around the rest of your body.
Tbh, VIP's would be even better for a sleeping mat system, especially combined with some soft foam or kapok cushioning pillows--it would be fool proof, extremely insulating solution (again, best combined with a pulk because of the extra bulk).
This is excellent thank you for giving your experience and input, base layers are a tough one to dial in for me.
@MactheHusky
Never saw your reply earlier, but you're welcome.
Cheers
Glad I'm on my couch sipping hot tea in the middle of a typical California winter ...
Great setup but I have ide / advice I used all the time in the Norwegian army. It’s a survival sack called “jerven duk. I put my entire sleeping arrangement inside it. This way you are more stable and won’t risk roling off or getting parts on the snow. Also it increases the insulation a lot and gives a much better chance at moving the frostpoint outside your sleepingbag.
I looked up what a "jerven duk" is on your advice and it definitely looks like a fantastic item to have in extreme cold weather! Thanks for sharing!
@@pantx0 yes its maybe the most important single item. For sleeping it’s a great addition. As a shelter in a emergency very important
@@pal_lokomotivet2679 Did you have to sleep in outdoor freezing conditions very often in the Norwegian army? I wold imagine it's a fair amount!
I take my lucky Norwegian flag when snow camping in Australia. No harm comes to me.
Hello my friend great video could you tell me what’s the best socks or what socks do you wear
Thanks!
Thanks Kevin! I really appreciate it!
I think this man just really loves the cold
I took your advice and bought the Therm-a-Rest neoair xtherm 6.9R. It was the last one in stock at a dealer in British Columbia. If I buy the new one it will be $103 extra with the tax. I also got a ridge rest foam to put underneath it. I just put together my first winter sleep system. I got the Snugpak Antarctica sleeping bag, Arctic mat, a fleece liner and to keep everything off the snow a German Army elephant skin tarp. I do not have a top quilt but I have a summer sleeping bag from the same company that could be used for that purpose.
Get 2 good sleeping bags. Put 1 inside the other and a quilt on top and a knit cap on your head. You'll be warm
Living in Norway and know a thing or two about cold, and how to behave in cold winters. U didnt mention it in your video so i say it. Your biggest enemy to stay outside this cold is sweat. Every time u feel abit warmer, relax. Your armpit is good indication, if its slightly moist, chill down. Wool is the best to have on your body as first layer. Reason is that it dont loose any isolation properties before it reaches around 50 percent water. I dont recommend to try this. If u overdo your protections against the cold u can die. If u underdo your protections against the cold u can die....
Icebreaker Merino Wool is my base layer choice.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada U.S.A.
How many times did you roll-off on to the ground?
Floorless tents are nice in the snow. If you had a floor it's just going to get full of snow and later, ice. One thing I do with my tipi is pile snow around the edges to prevent drafts, but it would be less effort if it had a snow skirt.
This is great, thanks for sharing Justin! From a fellow Canadian!
Please please give advice on how to keep toes warm. Just came back from a snow camping trip (-10C) and my toes were numb all the time! This is even with waterproof boots and thick merino wool socks.
Not always the case, but often if your toes/fingers are cold you aren't dressing warm enough. Your body will always focus on keeping your head and core warm, and will draw heat from the extremities to protect them
-10C is getting into the insulated boot (or overboot) range. A thin piece of closed cell foam under your insole can prevent the cold from working its way into your boot as well. Too much sock with too little room can also reduce the circulation in your feet making them colder. Loosen the laces or try a higher volume boot to accommodate another layer. Foot warmers can overcome an underinsulated boot as well. Just make sure there's enough air exchange for them to work.
I'd be using neoprene inner boots between my thick merino socks and an insulated boot for loger outings, but my wool socks and boots seem to work fine till about 10f (-12c), so make sure your socks are actually 80%+ wool, and that your boots aren't slowly accepting water. I wax mine, but many other treatments exist too.
Remove socks and place feet back into boots, elevate on wool blankets and set alarm for 15 minutes and relax as much as possible.
Socks can make feet cold due to much " wicking " action.
I use reflectix, closed cell reflective accordion, S2S etherlite xt, Marmot Col, S2S traveller. Rab Positron, merino jammers, darn tough Alpines, columbia thermarator beanie. Tent is the msr remote 3. -30 degrees F and the zippers are frozen from condensation. But, I love love love winter camping. Even my whisper lite is hard to ignite.
A fire to dry stuff is good and goretex stuff that dont wet by sweat . And can breath. But without a fire you wont survive a week i think
Would be interesting to see a video from you on Vapor Barrier Layers.
Andrew Skurka’s article on them regarding multi-day winter trips is really interesting
Mike Kraut: The whole time I watched this clip I was thinking ‘I wonder if he knows about the VBL?’ and ‘I wonder how heavy that synthetic quilt will get before he has to dry it out from his perspiration?’
If your planning on being out for several days or on anything like high altitude mountaineering or arctic exploration where you will be in sustained temps below 0 a Vapor barrier bag is a must. Not only will it prevent moisture into your sleeping bag layer which has the potential to freeze inside of your sleep system but the heat that is radiated from your sleeping bag can dry other things like socks and hats if you lay them on the top of your sleeping bag. I climbed Denali and the coldest ambient temperature inside of our tent was only -28 F but even in temps like that I would never not have a vbl liner for both my boots and sleeping setup, it easily adds 10-15 degrees in warmth.
I climbed mount Washington last year in December and was very happy to have a pee bottle in the tent that night.
If it's going to be well below minus 20 C and I'm on the ground, I don't use inflatable pads. If an inflatable pad fails at minus 10 C and you still have a closed cell pad, you'll have a miserable night but survive. Below minus 20 C, you'll be worse than miserable. I use a ground cloth, closed cell foam pad and an open cell foam pad on top of that. If there's enough snow, I'll dig a sleep trench and pitch my tipi-tent over that. 75 cm or so down in the snow is usually just a bit below 0 C and out of the wind.
I also use a vapor barrier shirt, pants and socks. Your body will have less insensible perspiration that way. It also keeps you better hydrated and prevents your skin from getting scaly dry. It tends to be much warmer than most baselayers, and it keeps your other layers dry from any perspiration. You will need to take those layers off at least once a day. Turn them inside out, let any moisture flash freeze, then brush it off before putting it back on.
Regarding the pee bottle, your core will try to shed volume to preserve its temperature. Cold kidneys means more nature calls. A pair of handwarmers on your back near your kidneys will reduce that need (and keep you more hydrated). As far as trying to go outside of the tent at minus 40 or less, you can get a flash freeze on those parts if they're exposed.
At extremely low temps, it's important to have at least two ways to accomplish the same result. A leaking airpad can be catastrophic. A campstove incident or a leaking water bottle can trash your down. A broken pole can mean no tent. You don't need to bring two of everything, but do have ways to overcome equipment failure. Also a good idea to always have a thermos full of a hot liquid to warm you enough to keep hypothermia from setting in and have a couple of chem warmers already going. By the time you're shivering, you might not be able to light a stove or tear open a chem warmer.
Have you used a vapor barrier layer? Thoughts?
Will you be doing a review of the xTherm NXT ..... and did they say when in 2023 it will be released?
Was about to get a NeoAir XTherm Max Regular Wide but now thinking I should wait.
lots of good advice
Well done
The coldest I’ve been backpacking/snowshoeing at -40 was the winter of 77 in the Green mountains of Vermont on the Long Trail
I saw in one of your winter camping videos you mentioned you had the naturehike down pants and was wondering what your opinion on them was
I learned my winter camping from the people who did it as a way of life. Canada's Inuit people. People who weren't trying to sell me something but hunting for food. I taught my 2 girls what I learned. Camping in a tent at -50, I don't think so.
I slept at - 10 C degrees and at those temperatures found the key factor in a sleeping bag to be zipper insulation. Folding tubes do not suffice to prevent freezing drafts. While i welcome arms openings, i am very wary that to be a sound choice for heat manegement. I think the hood is well designed
Great video, But What happens if the zip button gets stuck? 😅 How do you get your hands out?
My Western Mountaineering Puma sleeping bag is my secret weapon to being warm in very cold conditions. I've used it with an X-Therm on it's own (only one pad) down to it's rated -32C and been warm in just base layers, and I'm a hella cold sleeper. I have the MF version, so it's a very light 1.7kg for the warmth. At 2.2kg for pad and bag, it's so much warmth for the weight, it's nuts. Downsides are cost and this works best in a tent or under a tarp as the microfiber shell on the bag is very moisture resistant, but not able to be truly out in the weather.
I've used tarps and tents and prefer the shelter of tents and the weight of tarps, lol. My current winter ski-mountaineering rig is an older Black Diamond Squall, sleeps three in comfort with room to spare and has withstood some serious storms on the Columbia Icefields. At 1.2kg/person, it's not a bad weight/person for a bomber shelter. Sadly, no longer made by BD.
I just picked up the same sleeping bag after a couple of years of research. Glad to read your comments about it. I am looking forward to trying it out in the cold.
Any & all Western Mountaineering are world class sleeping bags & their temperature ratings are conservative, not exaggerated.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada U.S.A.
What are those down booties you're wearing in this video in the snow, and who makes them? They look like they have a reasonable sole on them? Thanks!
I just ordered the Reg Wide version of the Xthern. I'm about your body size. Have you used the wide? Is the extra weight & width worth it?? Also, I was thinking about using a quilt down base layer since I own a -6 vasper, and synthetic sleeping bag over it. Have you used that combo? Incredible page! Learning so much! Thank you.
Check out the clothes people wear who work in huge freezers or airports in freezing temperatures. I have a green one-piece suit good to -50°. Its what I wear and sleep in. Right on the snow. They are impressive. I'd love for you to do a review on them. I know you're gonna love it! Keep it up my guy, you're a savage!!
Ohh that sounds interesting. Do you have a link to the product?
@@EldritchCloak I can't recall the name off the top of my head. But that Google guy knows everything!🤪
@@jesser007lol
I tent around florida I could never imagine these Temps
For extreme cold, my 2 cents:
-Use whool and synthetics that keep insulation value when wet, your life may depend on it.
-No cotton, down, flannel, nor fleece for same reason.
-For socks, buffs and beanies: only whool.
-Use a liner in your sleeping bag, to keep bag dry and clean.
-Use a goretex bivybag over your sleeping bag, for wind barrier. Keep it zipped open though, to let moist escape.
-If your feet keep getting cold, keep your pants on in your bag, but slide them down so that only feet and lower leg are in it. You can also prop up the footbox a bit with small blanket or sweater.
-Do not use gear that weighs 540kg 😂
I wouldn't use anything wool except socks it never dries out. Nothing wrong with down. 99% of the time in -30 getting your bag wet is highly unlikely. Synthetic and wool blankets or bags are 3 times the weight and bulk then down for equal warmth.
I have a feeling from your comment that you are not packing your camping gear on your back. I've camped in low Temps lots and never have I gotten gear wet with the exception of my socks from sweat.
The only one question: why not fleece?
Yes it doesn't warm you well when wet but it dries very fast and work great to transfer moist to outer layers, while wool doesn't dry. Good fleece is probably a best synthetics for under layers. What is that synthetics you mention that keeps you warm when wet?
Wow, amazing! I think I still prefer a suite with private pool in a 5* tropical resort.
Holy crap! A total of all this stuff ! $$$ camping has become a rich person’s game.
Very nice combination of padding equating to about R10!
The coldest I have slept out is zero deg. F. I was okay in my zero degree bag,
however, it was very hard to sleep breathing in all that cold air.
I often covered up the opening, which is the last thing you should do.
It lowered the effective warmth of my bag and gave me a CO2 headache the next day!
Wow! Snow. I don’t believe we’ll be getting any more of that here in the UK. 40 below is merely theoretical where I am. Did your commenter suggest caribou skins? I’ll pop to the shops to get a couple tomorrow.
Seriously…great video. I was getting bragging rights for bivi’ing at minus 4 a few years ago! I will never mention that again.
I’ve camped many times above the arctic circle, in the winter. I’d agree mostly.
Gasified fuel won’t work at cold temps. Liquid or keep your gas in your crotch to keep it warm. Nalgene with boiling water in your sleeping bag foot box is great for the feet.
If solo or with a buddy, a mid style floor less is great. If a lady friend joins, I take my trango3. Candle lanterns help a ton with moisture and heat. Or if my lady joins practice making babies creates a lot of good heat in the tent.
No bugs. No crowds. Pulk sleds behind xc skis, can’t beat it.
Final note. Snow makes great TP. It is cold, but it works and honestly very refreshing after the shock of it.
Great informative video! I had a couple questions, I only plan on doing winter overnights at temps of 0-10 degrees. I have a Thermarest Parsec 0 bag, a WM Badger 15 bag, and a 20 degree UGQ Down top quilt. Do you still suggest getting a synthetic top quilt to supplement whichever sleeping bag I use, the 0 or 15? Should it be a 40 degree Apex quilt in Wide?
Excellent and efficient explanation! I wonder if you have read some of the testing and summaries on backpackinglight about baselayer materials and wicking. If you can get through all the technical explanations, it really grounds you in what to expect from different materials.
Go buy a US GI extreme cold weather bag with vapor barrier. I've slept on the ground in -35 with a closed cell foam pad underneath , and stayed toasty warm. $50 at surplus stores. Call me cheap if you want. Also, slept in the snow in the French alps with a down bag and Gortex bivy cover. Closed cell foam pad, underneath. (French Foreign Legion, 2eme REI) Jungle sleeping hints to follow!!😅
Nice but all how tf does that fit all in your bag with everything else?
New subscriber. Can you advise the exact name of your tipi tent that you use. I’ve used your link which only brings you to the site and not the item. Love your videos, they’re very informative!
For sure! HMG Ultamid 4. geni.us/Ultamid4
Hey justin, can I know wich pack you used to carry all this stuff ??
What do you think about VBL socks or inlets?
How do you avoid having to get into frozen shoes in the morning?
I use VBL socks and baselayers when the high is below minus 10 C.
@@greindl86 Two ways. VBL socks like you mentioned. Or highly breathable footwear like mukluks that let the perspiration out with it freezing on the outside. Mukluks are great with snowshoes, but they're bad on technical terrain.
Great video Justin. I use that same pee bottle. Just a suggestion for those interested...rinse it out if possible before you collapse it up when you pack up.😀
Your missing a breathing box. I lived outside 43 days last year and pretty much reduced to about what you have here. Plus a breather box. Find one of those accordion laundry hamper rings. Mine has two loops to hold it as a ring.. Leave one done so it creates a 90 bend and wear it over your head as structure. Cover your head with a tarp. Ice will build up in the tarp but the thin screen will keep it lofted and the ice out. Cover your upper body and shoulders with the tarp rather loosely. Perhaps cover with a blanket even. Rebreathing moist air will help you stay asleep. Sleep with water bottles in between your legs as well as anything you can't freeze. Batteries.. Your phone.. Etc etc.
Is there anything you would have to add to this idea I've got a trip planned this January to go mountian climbing for a few weeks. I've thought about buying a cot looked at the hellinox cot we will have decent elevation and negative Temps I don't wanna deal with a tents condensation so I thought about a nice tarp and a cot thanks.
"I've thought about buying a cot"
A cot will be colder like a hammock. A sleeping pad and the ground will reach an equilibrium between you and the ground. The air under the cot never warms as it is replaced. Your pad will keep losing heat from the bottom on a cot.
You also probably don't want to be fulling with assembling a cot at the end of the day with cold fingers.
hands down the most informative, no guff channel I've seen on here...well done mate!
Anyone know which HydraPak bottle that was at 3:50?
Gotta love the comfy caterpillar culture 😂👍🐛
What gloves are you wearing in the video?
That set up looks like you're sleeping in a cloud lol. I'm looking forward to going winter camping this year with what I've learned from this channel.
Please explain the reason for using a tent with no floor.
Thanks buddy, love your in-depth analysis and info PACKED videos.
I’d like to see your pack with all this sleeping gear!
Awesome video. But why doesn't anyone do a review video on good warm camp booties?
Very curious if that tent can withstand any wind at all..
Stay tuned ;)
thanks for your advice 😊
What gloves are you wearing?
Missed a full belly to keep the furnace fueled. And having a snack around 2:30 am ish will warm you with the process of digestion.
When I am 30kg overweight I can handle 0°C in a standard sleeping bag. Polar Bears know what they are doing.
It just looked COLD 🥶
Best video I've seen on extreme weather sleep system!!!!
👆THIS!
Outstanding video! You immediately got to the point of the video- gave short concise accurate information and provided perfect examples of said points.
No bs 30 second cringe intros.. no 8th grade essay outlines followed by a “let’s get into it!”.
And (IMO most importantly) no pandering with completely unrelated sponsor commercials. The fine art of shoehorning 5 minutes of information into a 20 minute video is out of control on UA-cam.
THANK YOU my new Canadian friend. Respect.
As a russian learner I completely understand your pfp
What about living in my car without heat?? What sleeping bag System is best for me?? I'm homless living in my car?
Another great video Justin. Curious as to why you choose to sleep in your Ultamid 2 vs a 4 season tent that would trap some heat? I have the Ultamid 2 plus a couple Hilleberg's (Soulo and Unna) and I'd rather sleep in the Hilleberg's in winter!
Way roomier for a lot less weight! The Ultamid 4 is only ~500g/1lb and I can have my full sleep system in there, my pack and gear, and still have room for a chair and to stretch my legs out.
You have the best winter camp videos hands down.
Also did you get the updated polar ranger ? I’m at the beginning of the video
No vapour barrier?? I've found it essential in extreme cold.
Hello, Justin! I see that you're using a SnowClaw. I don't remember seeing a presentation for it. Maybe do one in the future.
Cold Weather Gangsta!!!
Could you do a Hammock video? Awesome stuff!
How do you keep your feet warm?
When I am out in the elements, I keep warm by wearing a wet suit and climbing inside a slayed dragon.
Is this set up for one night or more nights in a row???
This does well with multiple nights due to the moisture management involved
@@JustinOutdoors How many nights exactly?
@@peterpohan3850 that's going to depend on the location, the conditions, and your experience
@@JustinOutdoors Dont need to tell me, I know how to keep warm in such temperatures.
Just move south for the winter !
What is the floorless tent seen in the video?
HMG Ultamid 4 :) geni.us/Ultamid4
A 3 inch Thermarest, that my be my first purchase from them. Now you’re talking comfort for heavy and or side sleep people. Great R value, do they have a rectangular version? You do a good showing of a variety of gear.
There will be a rectangular version!
@@JustinOutdoors nice, when is it being released?
@@JustinOutdoors was thinking of getting one but if there's going to be an improved version might be best to wait
@@shawnr6117 Jan/Feb 2023. I think the improvements are marginal and if it allows you to get the current version at a big discount, I'd take the discount.
@@JustinOutdoors that's what I was thinking . Got any recommendations for budget winter tents?
I was considering the decathlon (mh 100?) or a similar one from Mountain Warehouse. Both have mostly solid inners and are $50-$60 cad but also have fiberglass poles so not sure if they are a good choice for a winter starter tent.
Sick sleeping bag!
Do Bears hunt at -30 to -50 ?
if you want to pee you plan a bottle in the bag so you don't have to get out ?
Great video. Short and to the point.
A super cute giant carrot 😍
Very helpful video! Question, what size quilt did you get to work with the polar ranger?
regular/wide :)
@@JustinOutdoors Thanks!
Why dont you like a floor in the tent in the winter
-60 (including wind chill) is beyond brutal. -40 gives you a few minutes until your face outside your scarf starts to freeze, but with heavy windchill its like knives or boiling water the moment your skin touches the air.
Love to settle
- 24 with blankets in a car didn't much like it . Moisture becomes an issue don't recommend it moisture in the vehicle becomes an issue. I did find layers helped alot 2 sweaters + a jacket and blankets. I did get frostbite on my thumb tip or almost grtting into bed dressing down. Drink lots of fluids because you use them for heat also eating before bed helps keep you warm. Don't drink anything cold before bed . A hot thermos for tea incase you wake up cold in the night. Wind really takes alot heat away so break the wind big time.
Dehydration probably relates to frostbite bite sooner .
I'm 6'4" and just under 300 lbs.. my guess I'm out of luck. Thoughts.
4:50
"More sustainable"?
Oh?
What does that mean? Sustain my warmth? How does it provide an immediate advantage in keeping me warm?
800 USD? (the sleeping bag)
IS THAT CORRECT?
1 000€ seems to be price here in Finland
Any temperature blow 60 Fahrenheit is too cold for me!
Now a nice little stove to keep warm by and cook food.
That’s nuts!
Doesn't it make more sense to have the Nemo foam pad with the silver /reflective side facing upwards? I believe that's the way they're supposed to be used. It doesn't really make any sense to me that the reflective layer can reflect 'up'. That's not reflection!
He explains it in the video :) (with info from Nemo themselves)