A Deep Dive into GOLFTEC's Club Fitting Technology
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2020
- Is GOLFTEC a fraud? We explain our systems and discuss a few misnomers about our club fitting process.
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I've started at GOLFTEC recently and going in for my 4th lesson today. I signed up for an entire year with club fitting and game plan method package. So far, my swing has completely fallen apart bc I can't sway my hip correctly before my downswing and I was scooping the ball even though I was getting a great draw with my old swing. I've yet to see the results, but staying hopeful I can go back on the course soon.
As someone who was once an aspiring golf professional but has many injuries, I want to golf tec mainly to see myself in the video. To be able to see your swing completely broken down frame by frame is a huge asset. I'm 100% happy with their instruction. Now the club fitting maybe different story I have no experience with that
Raymon, thank you for sharing your experience. We are glad you've enjoyed your lessons.
I was fitted by a Certified ( I repeat ) a certified PGA golf fitter who has a golf boutique in Laval ( Quebec ) Canada.
No comparaison with my current golf club …no examination of my chipping wedges ( degrees, bounce etc ) I was stuck with a 47* gap and my 50 * wedge ??? I was after ten balls fitted to a Callaway clubs, and a Ping driver a LST 9*….
After a week of working hard indoors at a golf club…..I was struggling and extremely mad.A member looks at the stats and brought me to Golftown Canada( Golftec) and after 5 swing of golf he show me the Foresight stats and said you have been screw for good….all the shafts where too stiff for me 67 y/o.
Bottom line: a certified PGA forced me to keep in my closet a Driver which I’m not using ( play with my old Ping G400 Max), a 11 wood in the closet and spent roughly 600 CDA$ for new shafts on woods and clubs….So Golftown Canada ( Golftec) the fitter was not a certified by a BIG Corp bla bla bla….but an honest sales rep and a good golf player with training in fitting.
Don’t get fooled by big names…..trust your instincts and double check reputation… these incompetent fooled the public, the clubs manufacturers the PGA….but I wonder if they only cares….
I will probably go to you guys for lessons soon. Currently playing hand me down Ping Zings. I hit some P790's and I was very suprised at how much more forgivable they were and they aren't even the most forgiving irons.
I went to my local Golf Tech for a swing evaluation. There was a lot of good information. I am 65 years old. Carry a single digit HCP and have been very successful playing. While hitting, the numbers that you measure were shown to me with the comment of the colors should be green or blue for the different measurements being taken. All my numbers were green and 2 in the blue. Even with this, I was told my swing was not quite right as I go out to in and hit a straight ball vs the hook or fade that I should be hitting based on the coach. I was hitting my G425 7 iron around 154 yds, the coach gave me a G430 7 iron and I hit that 164 yds carry. What was not discussed was that the G430 Iron carried the loft more closer to a 6 iron. Had I pulled my 6 iron I would have made the same distance. I was very upfront that I did not want to make any major changes to my swing as I was shooting anywhere from under par to a bad day for me was 5 over par for 18 holes. Golf Genius would back up my stats and numbers. The one thing that is true, you can be the best coach in the world, if I as a player cannot adapt to the coaching or perform to that next level, whose fault is that?? Certainly not the coach. By the way, best place to hit a golf ball, La Paz, Bolivia. You are over 10000 feet in the air.
Interesting video. I'm actually booked for an evaluation next Monday. Understanding more of the process is good to know. I'll repost my comments on how things went after my evaluation.
And how did it go?
@@bradquinn4500 sadly the day before my fitting was to take place they cancelled on me and let me know of a few dates they had available and I let them know I couldn't make those dates and let them know my availability and they never got back to me. I wasn't impressed.
I appreciate the transparency in this video to address the concerns in the letter. Obviously, this kind of integrity is foundational to treating Customers with honor and respect, as well as meeting the goal of improving their golf game. One thing I don't understand though is that Smash Factor (or Efficiency) is the ratio of Ball Speed to Clubhead speed. It is a derived number from the empirical measurement of those two factors. Why are you using Clubhead speed and an "estimated" Smash Factor to calculate Ball Speed?
Hey Steve, thanks for the view and comment. With the launch monitor at this time it was using ball speed and an estimated smash factor based on near center contact to create the clubhead speed number. The launch monitor here was measuring ball data. At the time of filming this our 200+ centers were not able to measure strike location and clubhead data so the club head speed was calculated this way. Our fitting process is all about getting the optimum launch, spin, and descent angles so getting accurate ball data is the first priority.
12:50 i think it’s quite the opposite. GC2 measures the ball speed and it needs HMT to measure the clubhead speed. The unit you have there doesn’t have HMT add-on. Without HMT, you are ‘estimating’ the clubhead speed based on the smash factor you input into the software. So, this still doesn’t explain why the ball speed is off.
First of all, i could listen to that coach talk all day..I want a fitting with him lol. Second, this has been a thought of mine as well because I went to modern golf in Calgary AB to check my loft and lie as my clubs are 13 yr old and the guy I went to used to work at golf town and said everyone there would manipulate the settings in their bays….
I am considering Golftec and Club Champion for a whole bag fitting and purchase. I appreciate you illustrating one way a fitter could potentially fabricate false numbers for a customer to influence a possible sale. This will be useful for me to monitor when getting fit. I also believe that although your company's values, mission statement, etc. are inline with providing an honest experience any sales based organization that has sales based compensation will create behaviors for a few that are not inline with those values. It exists everywhere everyday. That said, I don't think golf club fitters or instructors get into this business for the money. So, I think there are likely very few bad apples.
Your videos have always been very informative and this one no less than the others. Thanks.
Club Champion uses A LOT of aftermarket shafts (~$200-$300+) as opposed to stock retail shafts. So $400 driver could be $700 when fitted. Be mindful. Neither good or bad, but awareness. Aftermarket shafts are different even some with the same names.
Do yourself a favor. CC is the used car salesman of over priced equipment. GT is for the common man.
10UPn2DOWN I never felt that common. I can play a sexy draw one stroke then slice-a-roo the next 😆. Noted!
I've decided to go to both. Happy to report back my experience. i’m pretty optimistic both of these companies do a pretty darn good job of what they said out to do. i’m also a pretty big believer of cost only being a factor in the absence of value.
@@GOLFTECLessonsFittings I scheduled an appointment for a "swing analysis" as that is what was recommended to me . The day of my appointment I got in my car ready to drive the hour or so to my local Golftec and received a vm from my coach. I called back and spoke to another young man that gave me nothing less than a hard sell on signing up for lessons. In his own words, "your coach ______ wants to have a conversation with you before you swing any club so he knows in advance if you're going to sign up for lessons. We are looking for a simple Yes or No at the end of your evaluation."
I totally understand this may be the coach's objective and goal but the language used is a major turnoff.
I cancelled my appointment and turned my car around. What a bummer.
FYI, since then I did go to Club Champion, did a full bag fitting and purchased irons, wedges, putter and a driver. Maybe next time.....
I had the opposite experience. Got a 3rd party gift card that had to be validated by golf tec to use for a swing evaluation. When it for the swing evaluation, gave me some good advice and showed me their system. The tip I got in the swing evaluation, immediately helped my game. The recommendation was for lessons, I went with a bigger package than suggested.
I like the program. Happy with my coach. That said, I don’t like that I essentially paid for a demo of their coaching program. Unlike a fitting that I can walk out and buy clubs some place else, their is limited value in the swing evaluation other than to benefit their coaching program. Either offer viewing of an example lesson for free, or offer it as a discounted first lesson.
So far golftec has been great. Yes my consistency is down while I build a better swing but my flush hits are much better and my flight path is much better
Hey Brent it is Brad here with GOLFTEC. Glad your seeing better hits and a better flight path! When you say consistency is down, are you talking in your scoring as you learn to trust your new swing?
Would be cool to see a video of trackman driver fitting v. Your current setup. I had a driver shaft fitting at Club champion indoors with trackman, so would be interesting to see the spin rate differences
Hi John, we actually have tested both trackman and our GC2 and the numbers are nearly spot on. So close that it wouldn't affect a fittings outcome.
Sadly there elevation change occurs not at golf tech but I did visit a facility and ask to see the elevation data. They were very upset that I wanted to see that. When they finally opened it it was set extremely low. So the effect was the guy was trying to sell me on a fitting and lessons. After explained to them that I have been playing since I was 15 I know my swing and can do anything with the ball. The difference was 60 yards . Some people are very bad habits. I will be visiting golf tech as I have gotten very good recommendations from people who have been fitted there
now that we have ascertained that you are not running a fraud operation, I need to schedule a swing evaluation and a club fitting. When will the Katy facility be open? also, If I wanted some fraud assistance would their be an upcharge?
I went for a golf fitting at Golftec several years ago. I swung TaylorMade, Ping and Cobra irons. I felt the Pings were the best fit for me. Actually, I think I wanted the Pings to be the best. After all of the swings, I waited for the results and.... my Taylormade Rocketballz were the best fit for me. If Golftec was a fraudulent company, they could have said Pings were the best and I would have bought them on the spot.
i was thinking about doing a fitting. how much did it cost?
@@stackleft2925 My fitting was included with lessons. If you just want club fitting it’s about $125 for irons.
I was fit for irons and two things had changed: 1. We used my golf balls for fitting session which more closely matched my current distance. 2. I did not ask or look to see what clubs I was hitting. I would have picked a Ping or TaylorMade from past experience, but based on how it felt and the stats from their monitor, I ended up with Mizuno irons. I am very excited to get new clubs.
@@Tsugita1 was wondering about the fitting after purchasing the clubs did golf tec mark them up? or do they make their money on the fitting?
@@betts2130 I do not think my club prices were higher than if I bought at a Dick’s Sporting Good store since I went with a standard shaft and grips. I believe Golftec is a reseller similar to a Dick’s Sporting goods. If I had gone with custom shafts, the costs go way up.
Do you offer various shaft lengths and grip sizes to try during the fitting or are those options only available for the final build when you buy the club?
Definitely shaft lengths but probably not grips unless you ask
I’ve been curious about the fitting process at Golftec. Reason for that is my Dad has been taking lessons at Golftec over the past year and a half. He was fitted for M6 irons after about 7 months...However his first instructor left Golftec and his new instructor just recently said he should be playing steel shafts instead of the graphite shafts he was fitted to at Golftec...this just seems off, and from the Video saying Golftec has routine comprehensive fitting checks for their instructors, this shouldn’t happen. Wouldn’t Golftec agree, that if the first fitting was truly off and he indeed does need steel shafts, shouldn’t Golftec cover that shaft change?
I'm not an expert by any means but perhaps his swing may have changed/improved during the 7 month period? I've heard on reddit that steel shafts are the way to go as you start really improving at the game.
Nims GOAT thanks for the reply, however I would like to note he initially had steel shaft clubs that he started with, which he was fitted to (not by Golftec). Golftec got him to upgrade his clubs with a fitting, which they put him in graphite shafts. Now his new Golftec instructor is trying to get him to get refitted for new irons with steel shafts. I believe if he truly needs steel shafts that Golftec should cover them for initially fitting him wrong. I think that would be the honorable thing for @Golftec to do
@@chow05 In that case I definitely agree with you.
A lot of modern clubs are also strong lofted. 10 year old 7 iron may be 3 or 4 weaker.
GOLFTEC I actually wrote a detailed email to Golftec after my club fitting. I was composing a chart to compare my previous sets distance versus the new irons distances and realized that the loft of the new clubs was almost 2 full clubs from my previous irons. For example the G410 7 iron is lofted to 30° which compared to my ancient 1987 Taylor made blades 7 iron which is 37°. The closest match to that is my old 5 iron which is 29°. Of course in a head to head comparison the new G410 7 iron out distances my old 7 iron by 20 yards. If you are like me walking in to a club fitting not knowing the lofts are different, it feels like magic! Once you realize that for the same loft angle they are actually close in distance it feels like you have been duped.
@@phreload1 you are forgetting the fact that the peak height, spin rate, and descent angle stays just as high even at a lower loft because of a lower GC. If your fitter is only telling you about distance they arent very good at their job and telling you what you are really gaining.
Today’s game improvement irons have very strong cavity with lower and deeper center of gravity than older blade irons launching the ball higher. The club loft should be tuned to create a consistent gap in the launch condition of the ball. Although your new 7 iron has the same loft as your old 5 iron, i bet the ball stops on the green much quicker than your 5 iron because of higher launch and higher decent angle. At the end of the day, you want a consistent gaping between clubs.
One thing to keep in mind though is that the benefit of the modern club design i mentioned above becomes less significant as you go to short irons like 9, pw. As a result, you may get extra yardages in mid- and long- irons, but your gapping in short irons and wedge could be problematic. So that’s why modern wedges are also offered with strong loft options like 50gap and 54sand because of the gapping issue although the wedge design is still a very traditional blade design.
Glad to hear this guys because I will be at golf tec starting next week for a swing evaluation
You’ll see that it will be money well-spent.
I’m a 67 year old golfer. I was fitted by Club Champion 2 years ago. If I take lessons from Golftec will I have to purchase new clubs?? I am continually working on my flexibility. I see many “younger” golfers on your websites. Does your teaching programs work with senior players??
Hi Aurelio, Brad Thorberg here with GOLFTEC. First off thanks so much for the view and the comment.
No you don't have to buy new clubs. The fitting is important for you and your coach to make sure your clubs fit you and promote the proper swing for you and the goals you have.
Also, I wouldn't say we have a system, we have state of the art technology that allows our well trained coaches help all golfers of all ability levels play better golf. I personally have worked with 5 year olds to a student who was 88 years old. I have no doubt that a coach in your area will be able to help you play better golf.
Let me know if you have any other questions, happy to help.
You mentioned that a PDF doc is provided after the fitting has been completed. Is this standard practice or just an option the fitter has for providing feedback?
Thanks for the reply.
I have done an iron fitting and a driver fitting. No information exists on my Golftec site in the club fitting section. I also didn't receive any PDF documents at time of fitting. Not sure why.
Hello, thanks for your reply. I got fitted last summer. The information isn't showing up in my Golftec clubhouse app. I had 2 fittings done within a few weeks for irons and driver. Something did go wrong.
Any fitting hit your clubs first for base line
My question would be is how is one to know the altitude has not been changed prior to the fitting? You schedule the fitting in advance, walk in and the simulator is ready to go. If one does not know about the ability to change the altitude how is one going to know it’s been changed prior?
The software when setup at each center is set to the centers altitude. It won't change unless someone played around with the settings which would only be the center manager who has the password to login and adjust the base settings. So when you walk into a center the altitude will be set to the altitude you are currently at.
If I understand the letter correctly the "skilled players" are claiming their own club was testing at a lower altitude then the software was changed when testing new clubs but as they showed those 'skilled players' would have seen that.
Also regardless of altitude setting even if its higher or lower that your home, the margin of difference if what you should pay attention to during a fitting
I must say whoever wrote those letters have done so under false pretenses. I just finished an iron fitting today and was a very rewarding experiences. With the plethora of tracking systems both personal and professional along with 3 other fittings I have experienced I can tell you this process was legit. The facts were irrefutable not just between new and old clubs but within the different heads and shafts I tested. I don’t need a computer to tell me how far I hit my existing irons nor if any of the tested clubs flew farther, straighter etc. yes the finer points are valuable but any legit golfer that has practiced their craft knows based on their experience how the clubs are behaving.
Hi Papa Shuk great to hear about your positive fitting experience. Appreciate the feedback and great review.
Great video. Thank you. I do have a question about the way smash factor is used in your system. If I understand it correctly, the smash factor is the factor that relates clubhead speed and ball speed. For example, if a driver clubhead speed is 100mph and the ball speed is 145mph, the smash factor is the ball speed divided by the clubhead speed (1.45 smash factor in this example). If the clubhead speed was 100mph and the ball speed was 140mph, the smash factor would be 1.40. To me, it would make sense if your system measured clubhead and ball speed and then calculated the smash factor. However, it sounded like your system measures clubhead speed, multiplied it times an assumed smash factor to get a calculated ball speed. Is this correct? If not, please explain what is measured, what is assumed and what is calculated in your system. Thanks.
Foresight gc2 measures the ball speed, and it estimates the club speed using the smash factor you input into the system. Gc2 with hmt measures both the ball speed and the club speed, but the unit in the video is not equipped with hmt
Stock clubs vs player improvement clubs will lead to different results also due to loft change. Many of my friends don’t realize a 34 deg 7 iron does not go as far as a 30 deg 7 iron. Easy t overlook.
True! That's a big part as to why we fit based on hitting optimum launch and spin numbers for your ball speed for a 7 iron. It's not about max distance if it can't hold a green. Plus I've seen slower swing speeds loose distance in some stronger lofted game improvement irons because they couldn't get the ball to stay in the air long enough and descend correctly.
I have been following golftec for a while now and I haven’t heard anything about numbers manipulation. However I have heard from “sources” that if you just go in for a club fitting, the tech’s can be somewhat stand-offish. Sort of making you feel that you are wasting there time cause what they want is for you to get the swing eval and lessons.
GOLFTEC I agree 100% with you on your reply. I am currently in the market for a full bag of new clubs. Currently hitting a 25yr old set of Callaway x-12’s and realize that I’m losing a ton of performance with that set. I’m doing my research on local club fitters, and to use golf terminology, golftec is in the clubhouse with the lead. Just trying to put a little money aside here and there so I can get fitted for a set that will last me another 20 yrs. hopefully. Minus replacing a club here and there. Thanks again.
GOLFTEC 😂😂
why change the altitude. how can u compare?
The altitude is set to the same altitude that the center is located at. So in this video it's set to a mile high since it was filmed in Denver CO. So it stays the same thru the entire fitting and you get accurate distance numbers that you would see where you typically play.
How important is grip? Ive had 4 lessons and was told at the range today my right hand grip was wrong. To be specific, my right hand grip was interlocking but my thumb sat on top of the grip like a putter. Ive watched some videos even golftec grip videos to find out that the random guy at the range was right. Why didnt my own coach tell me this? Isnt this important? Im paying a lot of money at GOLFTEC to be corrected by someone at the range.
IMO, There isn't a 100% right way to swing... There's just things that work better for each person. The GT process is to build your swing, grip is more of a fine tuning that can be changed after you've built up the rest of your swing
It’s everything, bad grip placement will effect wrist hinge….
people just dont understand like the trackman only gives you a good idea what you doing.Even Bryson got more equiment than any fitter has an he said the trackman data dont tranfer to course like it says
We use Foresight for our launch monitor data. We have found it to be more accurate especially during an indoor session.
Are all golftec locations on the same page as far a teaching philosophy?
Hey TP 03, Brad Thorberg here with GOLFTEC. Thanks for the view and the comment. All our coaches have access to the same state of the art technology. Plus, all our coaches go through extensive training on how to use it and how to use the facts from all the data we have collected to help each student play their best golf. Each coach comes with their own personality and approach but we all have the same tools and facts to help a student eliminate their frustrations and start playing better golf as fast as possible.
Great job debunking it
Dave seems kind of condescending!
Golftec likes to pat itself on the back.
@@GOLFTECLessonsFittings Guess you haven't watched this video or any video you have produced.
Sorry, did not mean to insult you. I have watched lots of your videos. Even invested in golf lessons at one of your sites and bought some clubs during a club fitting. Maybe my investment makes me feel entitled to have an opinion.
Where money is concerned integrity is easily lost, and I don't understand the need to post this if it has not been made public.
Hi Peter, Brad Thorberg here with GOLFTEC. Thanks for the view and comment. Can you better explain what you are referring to by "need to post this if it has not been made public?" Just curious so we can improve. Thanks
Completely disagree. In fact, watching this makes me want to switch my club fitting from Stix 96 (where I have been fitted several times in the past) to GolfTec, where I am currently taking lessons. I really appreciate how open they were with sharing their system and how it is used to find a good fit for each person.
$200 a hour,right
my friends went got fitted for the whole golf bag they like on computer i was a scratch golfer on course they playing 100 they was in 80's hahahahahahaha they spent 1000's of dollars to play worse..you cant buy a golf game you got to practice look at Tiger he was out there daylight to after dark every day just practice to play like he does hahahahaha
Terrible video. They laugh off and do a bad job paraprashing the complaint letter. Completely blow off the complaint. Condescending pricks.
Hi Bull Runner, this is Brad Thorberg with GOLFTEC. First off, thanks for the view and the feedback. This really does help us create better content for our viewers, which hopefully can provide more value to you.
As the new content creator for GOLFTEC, I would agree that we could have taken on a more sincere approach to this video. That being said, I feel they do an excellent job showcasing how it is nearly impossible to "fudge the numbers," so to speak.
As a franchise owner for 11years, I would always tell my students that we keep the lights on by helping people play better golf, not selling clubs. If the clubs don't make a noticeable difference, then you don't need those new tools in the bag.
I will honestly take this feedback and use it for future videos.
Thanks
Guess we found the person claiming this was a fraud. LMAO!
Gentlemen, not to mention that (quote accomplished players) is a subjective term. I cannot count the number of Imbecile golfers I have run across in my 50 plus years of playing who considered themselves above accomplished. And after a round I stood there shaking my head. Plus once on the course some players implode. You never KNOW!